In a message dated 6/7/00 11:07:34 AM Central Daylight Time, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes: << This is the eternal question: What rescue mechanism, exactly, does the VHF enable? This is worth giving some thought to. Its range, if you are *swimming* is probably not much over 3 miles to another boat; maybe 10 miles max to a Coast Guard repeater on a nearby hilltop. Where will you use it? Who will hear you if you send out a Mayday? >> Dave, I was thinking of the VHF primarily as providing access to a way home when unable to paddle. I tend to be a shoreline paddler so I think in most situations I could get myself and hopefully my kayak to shore. But once I get there I would really like to have an alternative to paddling back out into the stuff that dumped me, especially if I am injured or hypothermic. Also I envsion the radio as one way of minimizing the "get home at all costs" syndrome If I have a way to talk with someone I am more likely to wait out bad weather or call for assistance rather than try to paddle back through conditions that are over my head. In some ways it takes the place of a float plan when I am away from home and am not able to leave a plan with a reliabe contact. Your wrote: << You can't drown on the beach>> You can die of exposure on the beach. I am still planning to dress appropriate for water temps, to check weather forecasts, and to avoid areas that have a reputation for dangerous situations. (ie, do all the things I would do if I did not have the radio), But sometimes the unexpected does happen despite all your planning and I thought the VHF radio was a good tool to have in my safety toolbox. Am I seriously overestimating the value of the VHF radio? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:05 PM 06/07/2000 -0400, MJAkayaker_at_aol.com wrote: >Am I seriously overestimating the value of the VHF radio? No, you are certainly not. Any item which costs only $200 and can, in many situations, save a life or prevent damage, is certainly worth it. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, so far as I'm aware every part of the Bay is reachable by VHF. It can be used, in a pinch, to call home -- important because much of the South Bay is out of cell phone range. It can be used to summon emergency care and could cut hours out of rescue time for such an event as a dislocated shoulder. It could also be used to prevent an expensive rescue effort when one is not needed -- for example, if one is greatly overdue and family might be tempted to call 911 on your behalf. (The Coast Guard can now bill you for rescue costs.) One of the cases in Sea Kayaker: Deep Trouble illustrated both the necessity for, and limitations of, VHF radio. The trip leader was in the water with two others in conditions which prevented any of them from staying upright. He used the radio repeatedly and finally summoned help. But the rescuers searched the area he was theoretically in, while his signal weakened and began to break up. When all of them were quite near death a rescue boat guessed that they might be swept far north of their stated position and stumbled into them. The motorboat's VHF radio was used to bring in the CG helicopter which got them to hospital in time to keep them all alive. Read Deep Trouble to get the full story. It is quite a good book. I would like to see a sequel or an expanded edition sometime as there are many important lessons in it. jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm way behind on email but....I've used my VHF quite a bit...I first bought it from West Marine in 1989 and have since gotten an update version of the same thing...but aside from listening to weather and local chatter, I've contacted boats I'm meeting up with, attempted to stop kids from throwing rocks off the Deception Pass Bridge while I had a class there, and called a rude motorist off James Island who sent a huge wake onto a group of high school kids I had out. Of course the conversation went like this: ...could you please watch your wake....what are you kayakers doing so far from shore......we are marine vessels that travel from island to island....at which point the coast guard ask us to switch channels. That was a dangerous day with boat traffic as it was sunny and flat and boats were swinging by us like crazy. I also tried to report a guy cutting up logs on a bird refuge. Luckily I've never needed a rescue, but I know plenty of groups who have used their VHF's to get them in the San Juans and other places. (knock on wood) Andree Andree Hurley - http://www.viewit.com/ Viewit Dot Com - Websites for Specialty Businesses On Water Sports, New: Online Sales - http://www.onwatersports.com Online Editor - http://www.canoekayak.com - July 2000 is live *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Last Saturday one of the local dive shops sponsored a kayak polo contest. This wasn't a regulation kayak polo game. I think they called it Scrambo Ball rather than Kayak Polo. What ever you call it, we all had a lot of fun. The original idea was to have two teams of four on the course. But it's sad to say the shop didn't have a real large turnout (they probably needed to have a longer lead time for advertising the contest). We got a team together from our dive club and we managed to place first and second place. A couple of other people showed up and we ended up with two teams of three. Since our club had 2/3 of the members of each team, I feel justified in saying we came in first and second ;). We played for about three hours and the game pretty much turned into general anarchy after about an hour. Players switched sides, sat out points, and or raced each other around the course. So to tell the truth, I have no idea what the final score was. And it doesn't much matter. We had a great day of fun playing in the kayaks. The really good part is that for most of the people that played, it was their first time in a kayak and was a great introduction to kayaking. For me it was the first time back in a kayak in several months. I won't let that happen again! Anyway we had a great time and we're all planing on playing again. The shop used Ocean Kayaks. They had Scramblers, Scrambler XTs, and Malibus there. I only paddle the Malibu as the eyelets on the Scrambler XTs dug into my leg and made it kind of uncomfortable. One of the guys put some pictures up on his web site at: http://gordon.carey.home.att.net/Pictures/2000/SEAS2/SEAS21.htm and http://gordon.carey.home.att.net/Pictures/2000/Kayak_Polo/Kayak_Polo1.htm In the pictures, I'm the follicly challenged (bald) one - if you were wondering. Luke *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ya know, this talk of the usefulness of the VHF radio reminds me of similiar discussions regarding the usefulness of a HAM radio and GPS while backpacking. They are tools, nothing more, subject to failure just when you need them the most. We've gotten along without them forever, and will continue to do so. Anyone who venutures out thinking that just because I have a (fill in the blank) is a fool. Do the homework, prepare for the conditions, learn self rescue, and you won't need the electronic stuff. "Nuff said." Do I carry a VHF, Ham radio and GPS while out? You betcha. Wouldn't go without them. I also carry a rabbit's foot and a four leaf clover, too. Haven't had to use any of them for survival, yet, probably because I carry them. Superstitious, I know. While kayaking in San Diego harbor several years ago, I wasn't sure of a Navy ship's intentions, so I had a chat with the OOD. I'm sure he was quite surprised. He hadn't seen me, either. Steve Featherkile Puallup, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MJAkayaker_at_aol.com wrote: [snip] > I envsion the radio as one way of minimizing the "get home at all costs" > syndrome If I have a way to talk with someone I am more likely to wait out > bad weather or call for assistance rather than try to paddle back through > conditions that are over my head. In some ways it takes the place of a float > plan when I am away from home and am not able to leave a plan with a reliabe > contact. Good thoughts. In one of my fave paddling spots, it is easy to become windbound, possibly leading to a CG helo whopping away overhead, looking for me. My original reason for purchasing a handheld VHF was so I could tell them I was OK, saving the taxpayers some dough, and saving my loved ones some unnecessary grief. A reality around here is that the handheld VHF (and cell phones, sad to say) may not be able to reach anybody to tell them I am are OK, just waiting out some bad weather. YMMV, especially in more populous areas. > Kruger wrote: > << You can't drown on the beach>> > > You can die of exposure on the beach. Context, context. My statement came at the end of a description of what I use the VHF for, mainly: listening to the weather to decide whether I should **leave** the beach. I agree you can die of hypothermia on the beach, though if you are wearing immersion clothing suitable for cold water, that is highly unlikely, in our temperate climate. > Am I seriously overestimating the value of the VHF radio? No, though it is not a great sole substitute for telling someone where you will be paddling. The VHF is a good tool (as Featherkile said, I believe), but it is not a cure-all. Winters has posted lucidly (and extensively) here about the effect more safety gear has on increasing our willingness to paddle in dicey conditions. The uninitiated should chase down the articles on "risk homeostasis" on John's site: http://home.ican.net/~735769/ Click on "Paddling Safety" and look for risk homeostasis. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/7/00 8:19:18 PM Central Daylight Time, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes: << > Kruger wrote: > << You can't drown on the beach>> > I wrote: > You can die of exposure on the beach. Kruger replied: Context, context. My statement came at the end of a description of what I use the VHF for, mainly: listening to the weather to decide whether I should **leave** the beach. I agree you can die of hypothermia on the beach, though if you are wearing immersion clothing suitable for cold water, that is highly unlikely, in our temperate climate. >> My apology: Sorry for the misrepresentation. You were quite clear in your original message. I just could not resist putting the two lines together. I was trying to emphasize that I saw a use for the VHF on the beach in a rescue as well as a preventative mode. The preventative mode you described (not going out because you got a report of bad weather on the VHF) is not only the more likely situtation where the VHF will be useful, but is the best feature since it prevents something bad from happening in the first place, rather than just helps you survive something bad. Being from a very warm water area and having just read "Deep Trouble" I really have this concern for underestimating what I should be wearing when I go up north. I guess that's where my fear of "dying on the beach" comes from. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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