I finally did some actual kayak surfing off the coast of South Carolina last weekend. On Saturday, there were hardly any waves and it was a great introduction. On Sunday, however, I was in for a real surprise with some monster (to me, anyway) waves! I only capsized once on Sunday, my paddling partner took a swim three times. One thing I noticed that confused me is that often when I'm surfing a wave (in my Perception Captiva), towards the end, I'll feel the wave torque my boat to one side or the other (usually towards my left side, it seems). I'll typically end up with my boat parallel to the wave. For a beginner like me, it can be hard to keep the boat upright! The feeling can be a bit strange as I find myself having to brace pretty hard into the wave to keep upright. Once, I found the resistance of the wave to disappear (as waves do, of course) and I was bracing into nothing---capsize! I'm hoping that someone can provide me some pointers to why I get turned like this. I'm sure it's something to do with my paddling technique. How can I keep my boat straight? Pointers to websites or books would be great, too. Thanks to all, --Eric *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think it is fairly common for you boat to want to turn left or right and not go straight. Same things happens paddling in the wind. You can control the direction by using a stern rudder stroke. If you are going left, stick the paddle in on your right side and rudder away. You will find that you can only control the kayak from about 10:30 to 1:30 before you end up broached to the breaking waves. Once broached you are correct to brace into the wave. Here's the tricky part. In addition to bracing, you want to also edge into the wave, helping avoid water from getting under the boat and flipping you over. The combination of bracing and edging provides support. But as the wave dissipates you need to adjust the edging and bracing position. As the waves pressure becomes less, so does your "lean" into the wave. Finally, two safety points. Wear helmets when surfing. It is best to capsize away from shore. This places you between the waves and your boat and will help avoid the kayak wacking your body. good luck, hope this makes sense sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Sidney_Stone_at_amsinc.com wrote: -snip- > Once broached you are correct to brace into the wave. Here's the > tricky part. > In addition to bracing, you want to also edge into the wave, helping > avoid water > from getting under the boat and flipping you over. The combination > of bracing > and edging provides support. But as the wave dissipates you need to > adjust the > edging and bracing position. As the waves pressure becomes less, so > does your > "lean" into the wave. -snippage of good safety tips- I'll just add one or two things here to clarify a bit... while broached and sliding in sideways (edging into the wave and bracing), it's a *high brace* that you want to use in this postion, not a low brace. Moving the brace forward and back (just slightly) will help you position yourself on the wave as well (foward and back). You might also want to check out the Surf Zone at Boater Talk: http://www.boatertalk.com/HyperNews/get/Surf.html Here, you can ask all kinds of questions about surfing, and many people will be happy to help you out. Melissa Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/19/00 2:42:19 PM Central Daylight Time, bonnyweeboaty_at_yahoo.com writes: << while broached and sliding in sideways (edging into the wave and bracing), it's a *high brace* that you want to use in this postion, not a low brace >> I have heard several people recommend using the low brace rather than the high brace in that situation. Their point was that a shoulder dislocation was more likely with the high brace (in the surf situation) especially if you let your elbow on the bracing side get up and away from your side (easy to do if you do not practice your brace). What are your reasons for not using the low brace? Does using an extended brace with a Greenland paddle make any difference in the choice of braces to use? Do you even try to go to extended braces in the surf? I do not have much surfing experience, but in the past I have used the high brace when broached and side surfing. I was thinking of working on a change to the low brace because of the shoulder dislocation comments. Is it worth the effort to try to switch from my natural instincts? Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>... while broached and sliding in sideways (edging into the wave and bracing), it's a *high brace* that you want to use in this postion, not a low brace. >Moving the brace forward and back (just slightly) will help you >position yourself on the wave as well (foward and back). ....But doesn't that (high/low)depend on the size of the wave? Even though one is less likely to broach on a wave small enough to accommodate a low brace, it does happen. Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Arnold wrote: >>I have heard several people recommend using the low brace rather than the high brace in that situation. Their point was that a shoulder dislocation was more likely with the high brace (in the surf situation) especially if you let your elbow on the bracing side get up and away from your side (easy to do if you do not practice your brace). What are your reasons for not using the low brace?<< Shoulder dislocations are certainly possible in the surf, most likely from using a high brace in the stern quadrant (try to avoid high bracing there) and letting the upwelling water lift your elbow up away from your side. If this happens and the force is too much to control just let go of your paddle shaft with that hand. If the water is upwelling that hard you might even be able to use the flat of your hand to brace with until you can grab the paddle again. Always be ready to let go of the paddle. When upside down if it snags in the sand you want it to yank out of your hand rather than yank your shoulder out of joint. Usually you can hang on to the paddle with the other hand until things calm down enough to grab the shaft again and roll up. I will use a low brace on small waves or as a stern rudder when sliding mostly forward on a bigger wave but switch quickly to a high brace on broaching when in waves over a couple of feet tall. The reason is it is not easy to let go of a paddle that is being pushed up from below when your hand is on top of it and your arm is angled back. Can you say "torn rotator cuff"? If you let a wave force your arm back and up you may learn a lot more about how this feels. >>Does using an extended brace with a Greenland paddle make any difference in the choice of braces to use? Do you even try to go to extended braces in the surf?<< There is so much force in the surf you don't need much leverage on your braces and if you give the surf too much of a lever it can do some real damage to you. And the surf doesn't even need a place to stand, just a long enough lever. >>I do not have much surfing experience, but in the past I have used the high brace when broached and side surfing. I was thinking of working on a change to the low brace because of the shoulder dislocation comments. Is it worth the effort to try to switch from my natural instincts?<< Not in this case, except learn to let go (of the paddle) if things get too overpowering. Matt Broze Lots more surfing advice in the paddling manual on the website below. http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:10 PM 7/19/00 -0700, Matt Broze wrote: >Mark Arnold wrote: > > >>Does using an extended brace with a Greenland paddle make any difference >in >the choice of braces to use? Do you even try to go to extended braces in >the >surf?<< > >There is so much force in the surf you don't need much leverage on your >braces and if you give the surf too much of a lever it can do some real >damage to you. And the surf doesn't even need a place to stand, just a long >enough lever. As usual, I agree with 99% of whatever Matt says. So I'll reward him by posting the 1% that I happen to disagree with. Sorry Matt. Guess that's how science works. :) Regarding Greenland paddles in the surf... I am sorry to admit that I don't have a large amount of experience using them. I have a hard time not spending 100% of my surf time in a surf kayak. But with regard to using the extended paddle brace in the surf, I would say go for it if you have a real Greenland paddle that was built according to true Greenland specifications. This means the the length of the shaft is almost identical to the width of your shoulders. If you have one of those "commercial" Greenland sticks, then odds are that the ends of the blades occurs much wider than a traditional stick. The extra width of the loom means that in normal paddling, your arms are already held at the same width as, *ahem*, traditional white-man's paddles. Extending your grip on one of these would put your arms at risk as Matt says. However if you are fortunate enough to have a traditional-style Greenland paddle, then doing the extended paddle brace puts your arms at about the same width as a modern paddle. I don't think there's any harm in that, and honestly, I cannot really visualize that an effective brace in the surf is possible using the standard narrow grip. There's another helpful nuance of Greenland paddles in the surf, which is that they are designed to act as a wing to generate lift that supports a brace. In calm, green water, there is a huge difference between the amount of bracing force that can be applied when the paddle is sculled vs. held steady. In the surf, it will be hard to scull, and even if you could, the paddle would be moving through aerated, highly turbulent water. Since that precludes it from generating lift, it is far less likely to generate as much bracing resistance as a white-man's paddle, thereby reducing the stress on your shoulders. Cheers, Kevin Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin Whilden wrote: <SNIP> But with regard to > using the > extended paddle brace in the surf, I would say go for it if you > have a real > Greenland paddle that was built according to true Greenland > specifications. > This means the the length of the shaft is almost identical to the > width of > your shoulders. If you have one of those "commercial" Greenland sticks, > then odds are that the ends of the blades occurs much wider than a > traditional stick. The extra width of the loom means that in normal > paddling, your arms are already held at the same width as, *ahem*, > traditional white-man's paddles. Extending your grip on one of > these would > put your arms at risk as Matt says. However if you are fortunate > enough to > have a traditional-style Greenland paddle, then doing the extended paddle > brace puts your arms at about the same width as a modern paddle. I don't > think there's any harm in that, and honestly, I cannot really visualize > that an effective brace in the surf is possible using the > standard narrow grip. I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing by extended paddle. I take an extended paddle brace to mean that you extend the paddle more to the bracing side as you would do with an extended paddle roll. I can't see how (if this is what Kevin means too) that can be accomplished without moving the hands on the paddle out of the traditional narrow position (which I agree wouldn't give you an effective brace so why bother keeping the hand close together anyhow). > > There's another helpful nuance of Greenland paddles in the surf, which is > that they are designed to act as a wing to generate lift that supports a > brace. They may act like a wing but I'm not so sure they were "designed" to act as a wing. What are your historical sources for this claim? >In calm, green water, there is a huge difference between > the amount > of bracing force that can be applied when the paddle is sculled vs. held > steady. In the surf, it will be hard to scull, and even if you could, the > paddle would be moving through aerated, highly turbulent water. > Since that > precludes it from generating lift, it is far less likely to generate as > much bracing resistance as a white-man's paddle, thereby reducing the > stress on your shoulders. The water that is aerated is not usually where you are bracing (and that water isn't going to cause much trouble if it were). The water that causes the trouble is the water lifting up as the wave peaks to break and is still peaking up behind the soup as the wave tumbles forward once it has broken. I extend my paddle when faced with steep dumping breakers. Yeah, I extend it out the other way away from the breaker and have little more than the blade beyond my hand to brace with so I don't hand the surf such a big lever. The real reason hardly anyone uses a Greenland paddle for playing in the surf is just what Kevin is talking about. They don't have enough bite on the water for the real quick acceleration you need to catch a good ride in the first place. Well, at least not as fast a wave as the "white man's" paddle can catch. Greenland paddles aren't good for quick slap braces on the waters surface either. This soft bite might help protect your shoulder but not if you give it a much longer lever arm with which to compensate for its poor bite (and help it wrench your shoulder). Being unfeathered your Greenland paddle would probably just get broken by the surf anyway ;-) I suppose this could be seen as a safety feature too. Better to have your paddle break than your shoulder dislocate. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:42 AM 7/20/00 -0700, you wrote: >Kevin Whilden wrote: > > > >I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing by extended paddle. I take >an extended paddle brace to mean that you extend the paddle more to the >bracing side as you would do with an extended paddle roll. I can't see how >(if this is what Kevin means too) that can be accomplished without moving >the hands on the paddle out of the traditional narrow position (which I >agree wouldn't give you an effective brace so why bother keeping the hand >close together anyhow). Yes, it seems like we are talking about the same thing. When I brace with my GP, I only slide one hand - the one away from the bracing side - and I keep the other one fixed. This is fast and secure, and very easy to recover from. Of course, a greenland paddle is always easy to find the normal paddling position because the indexing is so extreme. > > > > There's another helpful nuance of Greenland paddles in the surf, which is > > that they are designed to act as a wing to generate lift that supports a > > brace. > >They may act like a wing but I'm not so sure they were "designed" to act as >a wing. What are your historical sources for this claim? Well, unfortunately historical accounts of what Eskimos thought about kayak design are pretty hard to come by. However I have a greenland paddle that I built according to John Heath's article in SK, and also from direct advice from George Gronseth, who was incidentally the first white man to participate in the Greenland Eskimo's kayak training course (I always forget the name...). In my estimation, this paddle generates lift like a wing when paddled in the proper manner (as taught to me by George). It is indeed a logical leap to say that they were "designed" to act like this. However why wouldn't this design be deliberate? Surely the Eskimos' lack of formal fluid mechanics training didn't preclude them from gaining an empirical understanding of lift. The Eskimos spent several thousand years of designing, paddling, and redesigning, and I have full confidence that the current paddle shape was deliberately "designed" to make the best performing paddle possible. Also, in quite apropos fashion, there's an good letter to the editor in the latest SK, where an aerodynamics engineer (Al Bowers) discusses Maligiaq's paddling technique. It's a very interesting letter, and at the end he concludes "Many things are not understood about the fluid mechanics of kayaks and paddles, but the realization that traditional Inuit paddlers may have discovered wing paddle lift long ago is significant". It always makes me chuckle when I think about the hubris of some westerners who have dismissed native peoples as ignorant savages. They were anything but that, and we are the ones who were ignorant. > >In calm, green water, there is a huge difference between > > the amount > > of bracing force that can be applied when the paddle is sculled vs. held > > steady. In the surf, it will be hard to scull, and even if you could, the > > paddle would be moving through aerated, highly turbulent water. > > Since that > > precludes it from generating lift, it is far less likely to generate as > > much bracing resistance as a white-man's paddle, thereby reducing the > > stress on your shoulders. > > >The water that is aerated is not usually where you are bracing (and that >water isn't going to cause much trouble if it were). The water that causes >the trouble is the water lifting up as the wave peaks to break and is still >peaking up behind the soup as the wave tumbles forward once it has broken. I >extend my paddle when faced with steep dumping breakers. Yeah, I extend it >out the other way away from the breaker and have little more than the blade >beyond my hand to brace with so I don't hand the surf such a big lever. This is an excellent piece of advice, although don't you think it might cause the very problem you are trying to alleviate if you are careless and get windowshaded? >The real reason hardly anyone uses a Greenland paddle for playing in the >surf is just what Kevin is talking about. They don't have enough bite on the >water for the real quick acceleration you need to catch a good ride in the >first place. Greenland paddles don't have much of a low gear for acceleration, although using really exaggerated sprint-racer's technique does help. Another problem I've found is that they are not as effective as white-man's paddles for hard ruddering and severe course changes that are often necessary in the surf. >Well, at least not as fast a wave as the "white man's" paddle >can catch. Greenland paddles aren't good for quick slap braces on the waters >surface either. This soft bite might help protect your shoulder but not if >you give it a much longer lever arm with which to compensate for its poor >bite (and help it wrench your shoulder). > >Being unfeathered your Greenland paddle would probably just get broken by >the surf anyway ;-) >I suppose this could be seen as a safety feature too. Better to have your >paddle break than your shoulder dislocate. LOL. Do I detect a whiff of smoke here? Certainly you're not trying to rekindle an old debate.... But that's beside the point, because everyone knows that Greenland style paddlers are more skilled in general and less likely to break paddles in the surf. Kevin Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I wrote: >The water that is aerated is not usually where you are bracing (and that >water isn't going to cause much trouble if it were). The water that causes >the trouble is the water lifting up as the wave peaks to break and is still >peaking up behind the soup as the wave tumbles forward once it has broken. I >extend my paddle when faced with steep dumping breakers. Yeah, I extend it >out the other way away from the breaker and have little more than the blade >beyond my hand to brace with so I don't hand the surf such a big lever. Kevin responded: This is an excellent piece of advice, although don't you think it might cause the very problem you are trying to alleviate if you are careless and get windowshaded? Actually I don't move my hand much on the paddle I just move the paddle away from the wave. I should have said there is little more than the blade extending beyond the kayak (not my hand) or where my hand normally is. A dumping breaker is less likely to windowshade me since it didn't get much of a lever arm to use. If the wave isn't too big but still a nasty dumper I hold my paddle and elbow up over the wave so my trunks profile is thinner and then I throw myself into the wave as it lurches forward so it has less of my body to use as a lever too and my momentum and thin profile helps me slice far enough into it so it doesn't smack me down. I don't get window shaded very often and I can't remember having the problem you speak of. But since my hands are really on the same position on the paddle and I've just moved the whole works away from the wave I probably get it recentered before I hit the water anyway. Since window shading happens so fast its not something I would notice doing so can't really say for sure. So far lots of sore muscles under the arm from early improper technique while surfing ocean breakers but no shoulder dislocations yet. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I hate to continue beating a dead horse in regard to this issue of high and low braces in the surf, but then again, that does seem to be the paddlewise way:-) I believe that when one is broaching on a wave the more important issue here is that of edge control of your boat. I have manage on many an occasion to successfully brace on a wave without a paddle, by simply leaning the boat over and extending my bare hands into the wave for support. The most important thing is to get the leading edge of your kayak (that would be the edge towards the beach) up so water will not pile up on it and capsize you. The brace, whether it be high, low or bare handed, is mostly a means to maintain balance while on edge. I generally teach people to use the low brace on smaller waves and the high brace on larger waves in order to keep the paddle parallel to the water and maximize the surface area. A high brace on a smaller wave will force the paddler to tilt the paddle down to reach the wave. While a low brace on a larger wave often encourages the paddler to tilt the paddle up to reach into the wave. While either will work, neither of these scenarios are the most efficient way to go about the task. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/20/00 2:39:17 AM Central Daylight Time, mkayaks_at_oz.net (Matt) writes: <<I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing by extended paddle. I take an extended paddle brace to mean that you extend the paddle more to the bracing side as you would do with an extended paddle roll. I can't see how (if this is what Kevin means too) that can be accomplished without moving the hands on the paddle ... >> Note: We were talking about a Greenland style paddle. For me, extended means moving the bracing side hand across the middle of the paddle until it hits the other hand. The non-bracing side hand then slides out about 3/4 of the way to the end of the blade (my blades are a little too wide for the grip to go all the way to the end. I end up with what is probably about a normal width grip for a Euro paddle, but with lots of extra length out the bracing side. << ... out of the traditional narrow position (which I agree wouldn't give you an effective brace so why bother keeping the hand close together anyhow) >From you earlier post I got the impression that you were suggesting not using the extended brace in the surf. From this comment I get the impression that I can not use the normal (narrow) paddling grip to brace. Are you suggesting some modified grip (not normal narrow Greenland and not extended Greenland) for bracing? If so could you explain a little more. << Being unfeathered your Greenland paddle would probably just get broken by the surf anyway ;-) >> Can you explain what happens to unfeathered paddles that breaks them in the surf. Do you consider it unsafe to paddle with a Greenland paddle if you will be doing surf landings? Do you consider it unsafe to do surf sessions with a Greenland paddle.? I would like to spend more time in surf as a boat handling exercise, but if I am not using my regular paddle it does not do me much good in that regard. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark J. Arnold wrote: > > In a message dated 7/20/00 2:39:17 AM Central Daylight Time, > mkayaks_at_oz.net > (Matt) writes: > > <<I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing by extended > paddle. I take > an extended paddle brace to mean that you extend the paddle more to the > bracing side as you would do with an extended paddle roll. I can't see how > (if this is what Kevin means too) that can be accomplished without moving > the hands on the paddle ... >> Note: We were talking about a > Greenland style > paddle. > > For me, extended means moving the bracing side hand across the > middle of the > paddle until it hits the other hand. The non-bracing side hand > then slides > out about 3/4 of the way to the end of the blade (my blades are a > little too > wide for the grip to go all the way to the end. I end up with what is > probably about a normal width grip for a Euro paddle, but with > lots of extra > length out the bracing side. That's what I thought you meant. Not sure how Kevin interpreted this. > > << ... out of the traditional narrow position (which I agree > wouldn't give > you an effective brace so why bother keeping the hand close > together anyhow) > > >From you earlier post I got the impression that you were > suggesting not using > the extended brace in the surf. From this comment I get the > impression that > I can not use the normal (narrow) paddling grip to brace. Are > you suggesting > some modified grip (not normal narrow Greenland and not extended > Greenland) > for bracing? If so could you explain a little more. no need to extend the brace in surf and it might be harmful. Holding your hands close together might be okay for maintaining speed at normal speed but just won't provide enough power or acceleration for bracing and catching waves. Hold your paddle even closer together and try hard strokes and bracing and you will see what I mean. > > << Being unfeathered your Greenland paddle would probably just > get broken by > the surf anyway ;-) >> > > Can you explain what happens to unfeathered paddles that breaks > them in the > surf. Do you consider it unsafe to paddle with a Greenland paddle if you > will be doing surf landings? > > Do you consider it unsafe to do surf sessions with a Greenland > paddle.? I > would like to spend more time in surf as a boat handling > exercise, but if I > am not using my regular paddle it does not do me much good in that regard. The reason I winked when I said unfeathered paddles break in the surf because we've been around that block before. The archives might have the details. This has been an observation of mine as a retailer who sees a broken paddle now and then. Most were being used in the surf and I can't recall any of those that was not unfeathered. One paddler described how he was upside down holding on to his paddle for all he was worth when the center of the shaft broke as the blades were pulled away. Others broke during an ender. I imagine that both the paddles blades ended up flat on the waters surface and the paddler and boat crashed through the middle. Something would have to give, better the paddle than you or the boat. Please, don't anybody ask me why a feathered paddle wouldn't also have this problem. A Greenland paddle in surf? No not necessarily unsafe (probably safer than an unfeathered fiberglass or aluminum Euro paddle--or even wood Euro) just relatively ineffective (for quick bracing and quick acceleration). I'm not at all anti-Greenland paddle and think they work fine for most uses. Do like my drip rings though (except in surf where I move them to the middle of the paddle to keep from spraying so much water around during low brace (#2 definition--but I prefer low=pushing, high=pulling--since its still a low brace even if you flip the paddle over and push with the power face). Boy those last sentences got pretty convoluted. Hope you can sort them out cause I gotta get to work. Last I'm going to say about this so have at me. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/20/00 8:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, mkayaks_at_oz.net writes: << Last I'm going to say about this so have at me >> No need to have at you, Matt. I just needed some clarification. Bad net etiquitte on my part in that I totally missed your "wink" on the breaking comment. It is interesting to know that the broken paddles you can remember have been non-feathered. My extended paddle roll and braces are getting pretty reliable but I have also been working quite hard on bracing and rolling without changing from my normal Greenland grip. I am having pretty good sucess in flat water and in small waves, but have not tried much in surf. The way I took your comments, I was kind of discouraged. It was as if my work on keeping the normal grip for rolling and bracing was probably for no real purpose. I'll just keep working on my technique and see how I fair as I get into bigger water. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:01 PM 7/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/20/00 8:46:06 PM Central Daylight Time, mkayaks_at_oz.net >writes: > >My extended paddle roll and braces are getting pretty reliable but I have >also been working quite hard on bracing and rolling without changing from my >normal Greenland grip. I am having pretty good sucess in flat water and in >small waves, but have not tried much in surf. The way I took your comments, >I was kind of discouraged. It was as if my work on keeping the normal grip >for rolling and bracing was probably for no real purpose. I'll just keep >working on my technique and see how I fair as I get into bigger water. > >Mark J. Arnold >MJAkayaker_at_aol.com Mark, there's no need to get discouraged -- all practice that challenges your ability is good. The beauty of the greenland paddle is that it is *so* easy to shift your grip during paddling and bracing. When I do the sliding stroke, it is totally unconscious and fluid. Same goes for extending the hand during bracing and rolling. The brace and roll is much more powerful that way. However in my brace and roll, only one hand shifts on the paddle (the outboard hand), and the other hand (the bracing side) remains fixed at the end of the loom. This is a great combination of power and speed (of sliding). I wouldn't worry so much about bracing and rolling with your hands close together. There's no need when the sliding action is so easy. Just concentrate on making that motion unconscious and you'll be fine. Cheers, kevin Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I was surprised that no one suggested Nigel Foster's recent book called Surf Kayaking (Globe Pequot Press). It has lots of good info and some nice photo sequences. For those of you wondering whether to low or high brace, give this suggestion of his a try: "When you are confident in both low- and high-brace positions, try switching from high to low and back to high while being carried sideways by the wave. This will develop your sense of balance to a point where you can side-surf with minimum weight on your paddle, or even control the edging on stable soup without using your paddle." Switching from low to high (or vice versa) is also useful when recovering if the wave has gone by left you off balance with the paddle blade submerged (and you need to brace and/or take a stroke without capsizing). Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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