The reality is that the type of brace used is dependent on the hight of the wave. A low brace, with edging, can be used on "baby" waves. As the waves become larger a high brace is probably preferable. It's quit an rush the first few times you brace into the wave - getting a good ride and realizing the brace and edging works. Injuries are always a risk, so you need to keep your hands and arms in the "safety" box. So practice proper technique when possible and then apply when the opportunity presents itself. sid who has been trashed in the surf and survived to do it again *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We've been down this road before; IMHO, people who use the high brace are known as "shoulder dislocation patients". I find that the low brace works just as well even on large waves (come to think of it, once the wave is taller than my shoulders, it really doesn't matter how large it is w.r.t. the brace). And now that I'm spending more time in C-2 and C-1, I'm discovering that it's really just as easy to do a low brace and get as much out of it. Mostly, it's a matter of not relying so much on the paddle, but more on the head dink and hipsnap. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Is there a website on bracing that shows drawings or photos, I'm a novice and some of the jargon is difficult to follow........bob klemick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:47:59PM -0500, Bob Klemick wrote: > Is there a website on bracing that shows drawings or photos, I'm a novice and > some of the jargon is difficult to follow........bob klemick I dunno if there's a web site for this -- though a lot of books cover it. Try this on for size: Sit down, as if you were in the boat. Pretend to hold a paddle (or really hold one). Now bring both elbows in so that they're against your ribs, and hold your hands out in front of you so that they're at the same level at your elbows. (You should look sorta like a cramped piano player at this point. ;-) ) If you now relax a bit, allow your elbows to move out a bit maybe your hands to move up or down a little, you're in just about the same position you'd be if you were doing a low brace. If you're using a kayak paddle, you can either use the power or back face of the blade -- I tend to use the power face when bracing right, off face when bracing left because it's easier on my wrists. To simulate a high brace, go out to your garage and put your paddle on top of the roof of your car. Get in and open the sunroof. Now reach up through the sunroof and grab the paddle with both hands. ;-) [Note that it would be difficult to rotate the paddle enough to use the "off" face in this case!] This is one of those things that engenders debate every time it comes up, but one thing to note is that when you're in the low brace position, there's a lot of slack in your shoulders and elbows; when you're high-bracing, they're isn't. Low-bracing takes longer to master, but it does seem to protect folks from injury (at least in my experience); it leaves you closer to being set up to roll if the brace doesn't work; and it's an easier to position to get to when interrupting yourself mid-stroke to brace. (Forget the stuff I said about C-1/C-2, it'll just confuse you at this point. Heck, sometimes it confuses me!...said confusion is usually followed by the sound "Oh sh...", then the sound "splash", then the sound "glug", then some random thrashing around upside-down, and then maybe the sound "ugh" as the hip-snap finishes a successful roll...or not...) ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:52 PM 7/19/00 -0400, Rich Kulawiec wrote: >Jul 19, 2000 at 04:47:59PM -0500_at_ >Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net >Precedence: list >X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List >X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > >On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 04:47:59PM -0500, Bob Klemick wrote: >> Is there a website on bracing that shows drawings or photos, I'm a novice >and >> some of the jargon is difficult to follow........bob klemick > >I dunno if there's a web site for this -- though a lot of books cover it. > >Try this on for size: > >Sit down, as if you were in the boat. Pretend to hold a paddle (or >really hold one). Now bring both elbows in so that they're against >your ribs, and hold your hands out in front of you so that they're >at the same level at your elbows. (You should look sorta like a cramped >piano player at this point. ;-) ) The position for a low brace that I've heard used is as if you're going to do a pushup. > >If you now relax a bit, allow your elbows to move out a bit maybe your >hands to move up or down a little, you're in just about the same >position you'd be if you were doing a low brace. I find it helpful to rotate at the waist slightly as well. >If you're using >a kayak paddle, you can either use the power or back face of the >blade -- I tend to use the power face when bracing right, off face >when bracing left because it's easier on my wrists. I'm glad you mentioned this because I do the same thing. I use a right hand controlled feathered paddle and find it a lot more natural to low brace on the left, high brace on the right, although I practice both braces on both sides. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/19/00 11:39:05 PM !!!First Boot!!!, klemick_at_home.com writes: << Is there a website on bracing that shows drawings or photos, I'm a novice and some of the jargon is difficult to follow........bob klemick >> How about this, run and get your paddle, we'll wait...... OK, you're back. Sit in your chair and pretend to do a forward stroke on your right side. The paddle blade has two faces. The power face is facing to the rear (stern) of the boat. The back face is facing to the front (bow) of the boat. If you turn your knuckles down, the back face of the blade is facing the water. Your right hand is near waist level. This is the proper blade orientation for a low brace. Knuckles down, back face to water, low brace. Remember LOW DOWN. If you turn your knuckles up, the power face of the blade is facing the water. Your right hand is near shoulder level. This is proper blade orientation for high brace. Knuckles up, power face to water, high brace. Remember HIGH UP. Hope that helps, Bruce McC WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow! y'all are terrific, its all printed, let me see if I can profit from it. Thanks a bunch..............bob klemick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Outfit3029_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/19/00 11:39:05 PM !!!First Boot!!!, > klemick_at_home.com > writes: > > << Is there a website on bracing that shows drawings or photos, I'm a > novice and some of the jargon is difficult to follow........ >> bob klemick >> and Bruce McC replied [heavily snipped]: > > How about this... > ...The paddle blade has two faces. > ...knuckles down... > Knuckles down, back face to water, low brace. > > Remember LOW DOWN. > ...knuckles up > ...Knuckles up, power face to water, high brace. > > Remember HIGH UP. > and I say: More important jargon to remember: Trashed. Maytaged. Rag Doll Mode. Definition(s): You'll learn soon enough! ;-) Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Rich Kulawiec <rsk_at_gsp.org> wrote: > > Try this on for size: > Hi Rich... different sizes: -some snippage- > > To simulate a high brace, go out to your garage and put your > paddle on top of the roof of your car. Get in and open the > sunroof. Now reach up through the sunroof and grab the paddle with > both hands. ;-) <!> um... I'm not sure where this *sun roof high brace* comes from, but as far as I know, a brace is high or low depending on which face of the blade is facing the water - not on how high a paddle is held in relation to one's face. Perhaps this [sun roof technique] is where you get the dislocated shoulder routine? They (high and low braces) are also frequently used in somewhat different positions (as far as fore, aft, or directly beside the paddler's position). I don't think it's a matter of using either/or a high or low brace in every situation, but rather a question of what the paddler intends to do in a given situation. If one is broached on an ocean wave (or soup of a recently broken wave), there are a number of choices (sometimes)... Whether to remain broached and simply ride the wave all the way in sideways, or to turn back down the face of the wave, or to go back over the back of the wave. The answer(s) to these questions also depend on a number of things: size of wave, breaking direction, type of boat, how close/far from shore, level of experience, etc. > This is one of those things that engenders debate every time it > comes up, but one thing to note is that when you're in the low > brace position, there's a lot of slack in your shoulders and elbows; > when you're high-bracing, they're isn't. Low-bracing takes longer > to master, but it does seem to protect folks from injury (at least > in my experience); it leaves you closer to being set up to roll > if the brace doesn't work; and it's an easier to position to get > to when interrupting yourself mid-stroke to brace. <begging to differ a bit more here - engendering debate> First - *mastering* something is always a matter of degree. There's always something more to learn, as every wave (at least in the ocean) is different, and always changing. Secondly - I haven't experienced any problems going from a capsize during a high brace to a rolling position. Certainly no more trouble than preparing for a roll from a low brace position. If the paddle is in my hands, I'll find a way to roll if I can. Nor have I found it particularly awkward going from a *stroke* to a high brace. Besides, not a whole lot of forward stroking going on to be interupted while flying down the face of a wave. > > (Forget the stuff I said about C-1/C-2, it'll just confuse you > at this point. Heck, sometimes it confuses me!...said confusion > is usually followed by the sound "Oh sh...", then the sound "splash", > then the sound "glug", then some random thrashing around upside-down, > and then maybe the sound "ugh" as the hip-snap finishes a successful > roll...or not...) Yes - I became confused. When you mentioned head dinks and hip snaps, I was wondering if you were talking about bracing into a wave anymore, or had seamlessly moved on to rolling. See you at the chiroprator's! ;-) Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> <!> um... I'm not sure where this *sun roof high brace* comes from, > but as far as I know, a brace is high or low depending on which face of > the blade is facing the water - not on how high a paddle is held in > relation to one's face. Perhaps this [sun roof technique] is where you > get the dislocated shoulder routine? They (high and low braces) are > also frequently used in somewhat different positions (as far as fore, > aft, or directly beside the paddler's position). Ah, terminology confusion. The problem is that the same term can be used for two different things: Usage 1: Low brace: paddle held relatively low; elbows below shoulders; lots of slack in elbows and shoulders; roughly the same position that one would end up in after a C-to-C roll. High brace: paddle up high; no slack in elbows or shoulders; excellent way to dislocate a shoulder especially if you flip upstream while surfing a hole/in shallow surf. Usage 2: Low brace: off (non-power) face of the blade down High brace: power face of the blade down I tend to toss these around interchangeably hoping that context will make it clear, but I'm realizing that maybe it doesn't. So for example, when kayak surfing, I always use a low brace (paddle held low) while sometimes using low/high (paddle face) depending on which side I'm on. In a C-boat, I still always use a low brace (paddle held low) and always use a low brace (paddle face). It's the high brace (paddle held high) that I try to teach folks not to use, because it leaves little slack in the joints and can increase the likelihood of injury. Not only that, it tends to encourage them to actually use the paddle to push themselves up rather than focusing on dropping their head (the head dink) and snapping their hips to bring the boat up. Soooo, while the low brace isn't quite as instinctive (at least it wasn't for me) I think it's better technique. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Let's stick to usage 2! Usage 1 only causes confusion. -----Original Message----- Ah, terminology confusion. The problem is that the same term can be used for two different things: Usage 1: Low brace: paddle held relatively low; elbows below shoulders; lots of slack in elbows and shoulders; roughly the same position that one would end up in after a C-to-C roll. High brace: paddle up high; no slack in elbows or shoulders; excellent way to dislocate a shoulder especially if you flip upstream while surfing a hole/in shallow surf. Usage 2: Low brace: off (non-power) face of the blade down High brace: power face of the blade down *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I strongly agree with Jack. As mark Twain said, the difference between the right word and almost the right word is equivalent to the differnece between lightning bug and lightning. Regarding braces, my definition keys on the position of the paddle wrt the wrists--in a low brace, the paddle is below the wrists, and high vv--and the face of the paddle doing the work--low is back, high is power. You can low brace a pretty good-sized wave. I was once sitting full of water, getting ready to pump out, and got hit by an eyebrow-level wave. I didn't have time to get the paddle flipped over, so just leaned on a low brace and rode it out. Steve Jack Fu wrote: > > Let's stick to usage 2! Usage 1 only causes confusion. > > Usage 1: > > Low brace: paddle held relatively low; ... > High brace: paddle up high; .... > Usage 2: > > Low brace: off (non-power) face of the blade down > High brace: power face of the blade down *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 20, 2000 at 10:34:03AM -0700, Jack Fu wrote: > > Let's stick to usage 2! Usage 1 only causes confusion. > > That's okay with me: I think my own perspective is skewed because I > don't pay that much attention to which face of the blade I'm using -- > because I try not to use it very much. (With the exception of making > sure I'm using the off face on the C-1 paddle... Remember, folks, Rich is also, perhaps foremost, a canoeist. A canoe high brace is a very different animal. I have been known to do a C-boat high brace in a K-boat on occasion when the water is moving faster than my brain. Perhaps you, too, Rich? Steve "Are your perspectives skewed?" "Only if they're done right." --apologies to Woody Allen. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> wrote: well, first - Jack said: > > > > > Let's stick to usage 2! Usage 1 only causes confusion. then Rich replied: > > > > That's okay with me: I think my own perspective is skewed because I > > don't pay that much attention to which face of the blade I'm using > -- > > because I try not to use it very much. (With the exception of > making > > sure I'm using the off face on the C-1 paddle... and finally, Steve reminded us: > > Remember, folks, Rich is also, perhaps foremost, a canoeist. A canoe > high brace is a very different animal. I have been known to do a > C-boat > high brace in a K-boat on occasion when the water is moving faster > than > my brain. Perhaps you, too, Rich? > and I just had to say: oh... I *was* wondering if our confusion was because we were dealing with *evil open boater terminology syndrome* (eek! just kidding Rich! ;-)) Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Melissa wrote: > > oh... I *was* wondering if our confusion was because we were dealing > with *evil open boater terminology syndrome* (eek! just kidding Rich! > ;-)) Hey, I resemble that remark! :) Steve Viper 12, Edge 13, Quake paddler *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > Melissa wrote: > > > Remember, folks, Rich is also, perhaps foremost, a canoeist. For the record, I said that. > > Rich *wishes* he had that kind of skill, but he's just a K-1 > who gets in C-2 and C-1 and tries not to be so embarrassing to his > boat that it dumps him and runs rivers without him. I stand (sometimes sit, often kneel) corrected. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jul 20, 2000 at 12:23:44PM -0700, Melissa wrote: > > Remember, folks, Rich is also, perhaps foremost, a canoeist. Rich *wishes* he had that kind of skill, but he's just a K-1 who gets in C-2 and C-1 and tries not to be so embarrassing to his boat that it dumps him and runs rivers without him. > > A canoe high brace is a very different animal. I have been known to do a > > C-boat high brace in a K-boat on occasion when the water is moving faster > > than my brain. Perhaps you, too, Rich? Uh-huh! And you know what the worst part is? There is *always* someone I know watching me do this. Sometimes many someones. <Sound of laughter coming from three different eddies as Rich forgets which kind of boat he is in...shouts of a Talking Heads lyric: "And you may ask yourself....how do I work this?"> > oh... I *was* wondering if our confusion was because we were dealing > with *evil open boater terminology syndrome* (eek! just kidding Rich! Oh, no it's much worse: it's evil *decked* C-boater syndrome. See http://www.rockandwater.net/pix/riversport-98b.jpg and note that the doofus in the stern is being gracefully tolerated by a far more skilled bow paddler. Oh...and any pictures you may come across of me in OC-1 or OC-2 are obviously faked by hostile governments intent on destroying my political career. Pay no attention to them. No one could possibly look that inept. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, Jul 20, 2000 at 10:34:03AM -0700, Jack Fu wrote: > Let's stick to usage 2! Usage 1 only causes confusion. That's okay with me: I think my own perspective is skewed because I don't pay that much attention to which face of the blade I'm using -- because I try not to use it very much. (With the exception of making sure I'm using the off face on the C-1 paddle: using the power face is ineffective as well as an excellent way to break a paddle). Mostly I focus on...well, I don't know what to call it because I don't want to call it a "high brace"...let's just that I try to strongly discourage people from letting the paddle get up high/locking their elbows/stretching their shoulders/getting behind their head -- all of the things that can lead to spectacular crash 'n burn as well as ER visits. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
With respect to definitions of low and high brace. I would challenge the definition that the low brace paddle position is similiar to the position after a c-to-c roll. With c-t-c the power face of the paddle is pointing toward the water. With a low brace the power face is toward the sky (unless you have capsized in which case the whole paddle is in the water). sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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