--- ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > Most countries have similar rules, i.e. a fairly wide-band of > shoreline > ABOVE the mean high tide line is public. Depending on your outlook, > the > US is either foreward looking or backward looking regarding this. > > BTW, I was impressed in my visits to Puerto Rico to find that > something > similar applies there, i.e. a wide band of the beaches belongs to the > public. The hotels, no matter how much they would like the situation > to > be different, cannot ban innocent passage along the beaches in front > of > their property. Also, and this is critical, there must be access to > those beachs from the land at decent intervals. > -snip- I live in an oceanfront house in WA state (USA), and I have mixed feelings about the public policy on beaches. On the one hand, I'm very glad that the beaches are public land. For me, a coastline - the edge of a continent - is a sacred place, and personal ownership just doesn't seem right to me (personal ownership of bits of earth is already a somewhat absurd concept to me - although I can understand the utility in some of it). However, there is one thing that really really REALLY bothers me about my state's policy... Driving is allowed on the beach (ack!!!). What's that all about? I've been told that it's because the beach is designated a *state highway* (I've never seen anyone using the beach for point to point travel - especially at the beach in front of my house, as I live on a little spit of sand sticking out into the ocean - effectively a dead end). That (state highway designation) may be why it's allowed, but why is it designated as such in the first place??!! This is something I've never understood. There is no real need to drive on the beach (except for surf rescues and other possible emergencies). I've written to the Governor a few times regarding this disgusting practice, but haven't heard back from him. I've written to the DOT, and haven't heard from them. It's a sad situation. Melissa Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It's all a tough call no matter how you look at it. Unlike in Washington where you report the beach is public, other states have had to really fight for this. I am a member of a NY area group called the Shorewalkers. I always like to walk as much as possible along the shoreline that I paddle. The group is dedicated to the right of innocent passage by people along the entire shore perimeter of the tri-state area. Last year, I walked with the group on the New Jersey side from Hoboken (Frank Sinatra's old haunting ground; a riverside park is now named after him and has an official kayak launch site). As we walking about half way up to our destination at the George Washington Bridge (about a 12 mile walk), we came upon a residential development. There were light obstacles in our way. As we started going through them we were stopped not by a security guard but rather one of the apartment dwellers and his wife. Here was the conflict: a middle to advanced age couple confronting a group of walkers who mirrored them in looks and age. We had no boomboxes, we were totally non-threatening (if any one saw a foto of me you would know that) but the husband stood his ground...we could not walk through. Well it so happens that that the state authorities were fighting that development's encroachment on the legislated free access walk along the entire stretch of the river. The state won in the courts. The state officials at a harbor wide meeting held later gathering together government, private, commercial and environmental groups made an interesting point. Certain land such as shoreline and waters are held in trust by the state; these belong to NO ONE and EVERYONE. ralph Melissa wrote: > I live in an oceanfront house in WA state (USA), and I have mixed > feelings about the public policy on beaches. On the one hand, I'm very > glad that the beaches are public land. For me, a coastline - the edge > of a continent - is a sacred place, and personal ownership just doesn't > seem right to me (personal ownership of bits of earth is already a > somewhat absurd concept to me - although I can understand the utility > in some of it). > > However, there is one thing that really really REALLY bothers me about > my state's policy... Driving is allowed on the beach (ack!!!). What's > that all about? I've been told that it's because the beach is > designated a *state highway* (I've never seen anyone using the beach > for point to point travel - especially at the beach in front of my > house, as I live on a little spit of sand sticking out into the ocean - > effectively a dead end). That (state highway designation) may be why > it's allowed, but why is it designated as such in the first place??!! > This is something I've never understood. There is no real need to > drive on the beach (except for surf rescues and other possible > emergencies). > > I've written to the Governor a few times regarding this disgusting > practice, but haven't heard back from him. I've written to the DOT, > and haven't heard from them. It's a sad situation. > > Melissa > > Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In S. Florida the Condo Commando's try to restrict THEIR beach. The taxpayer spends big bucks pumping sand back on the things to keep the condo's from falling in the Atlantic. I say let them go. Have you every driven A1A from Miami north and enjoyed the unrestricted view of the ocean. I have been harassed by some of these irate Condo Commando's who believed they owned the beach from their property to the water. If I am not mistaken when adjoining a "navigable waterway" the access extends to the Mean High Water Level or 100 year flood level. That is public right of way. The fourth of July weekend found us visiting my sister in the N. LA area off of Old Topanga Canyon Road. I decided to paddle South of Leo Carillo at the north end of Malibu you will find a small access area to the beach between nice beach homes. When you get to the beach you find a sign that says: "This beach was surveyed: 6/1/00. From this sign 20 feet towards the ocean is private property." Sorry Ms. Nelson this is paraphrased, but I am sure it is accurate! The sign was getting wet prior to high tide. On page 15 of "California Coastal Access Guide" it states that: Article 10, Section 4 of the California constitution guarantees the public's right to access to the state's navigable waters. The State of California owns the tide and submerged lands seaward of what is called the "mean high tide line" Mean High Tide Line is calculated by using the mean of normal tides over approximately 19 years. "visitors have the right to walk on a wet beach" I may not be able to afford their homes, but I can and will use "OUR" beaches! Quote that Ms. Nelson! And I would like to be able to camp on them as well! Fred Thomas California Kayaker At 10:17 PM 7/10/2000 -0700, ralph diaz wrote: >It's all a tough call no matter how you look at it. Unlike in >Washington where you report the beach is public, other states have had >to really fight for this. > > Melissa > > > > Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! > > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter >PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 >Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com >"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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