Greetings, I hope this topic has not been recently addressed... if so, perhaps someone could let me know and I will go to the archives. :) Anyway, my problem/question concerns lower back discomfort (through the hips) mostly while standing still (upright) while on land. The discomfort does not occur while paddling/sitting, but is there while lying (trying to sleep). I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do not have a back band/brace of any sort. If there is some sort of connection, then what do folks recommend for a back band/brace - something about 4" wide or something much wider 12-14" ??? Many thanks for your thoughts. -- cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/26/00 8:56:55 AM, stephen.bird_at_superaje.com writes: << I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do not have a back band/brace of any sort. If there is some sort of connection, then what do folks recommend for a back band/brace - something about 4" wide or something much wider 12-14" ??? >> Yes, there most likely is if you are leaning in the coaming. In the BCU Handbook it connects leaning on the coaming to problems of all kinds. It is the pressure of the coaming on the spine that can pinch nerves and cause lots of different kinds of pain. A backband doesn't need to be all that wide. I'd guess the usual width is 4 to 6 inches. The primary thing is to get lumbar support that keeps you from pressing a small spot on you back against a hard object. I have a great one that is padded and has a pocket. I can't recall the make off hand and the boat is on the truck with cockpit cover on it so it is too hard to check at the moment. It is something gear. I like not having one that rises above the coaming. It is much easier to lean back against. I suspect any paddling back there will help. Good luck with the pain. I have hip pain but that is of old standing and unlikely to get better 8^( Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:48:00 EDT, you wrote: ><<I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do ><<not have a back band/brace of any sort. >If there is some sort of connection, then what do folks recommend for a back >band/brace - something about 4" wide or something much wider 12-14" ??? >> > >Yes, there most likely is if you are leaning in the coaming. Actually, Joan, I don't lean that far back so that isn't the cause. Your ideas about a pressure point make good sense. It probably applies to other body parts such as hips and legs. >I have a great one that is padded and has a pocket. Thanks for your suggestion about the brace from Planetary Gear. I will look for one. On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:36:45 -0400, Jim wrote: >Lower back and hip pain often become chronic in many people. I recommend >that you first ensure that you have no disc or alignment problems in your >lower back. I'm seeing a Rehab specialist September 6th, so not long to wait... >Secondly, consider strengthing and stretching exercises. Good idea.... I tend to do "some" stretching. Another paddler suggested trying to get/keep my pelvis forward as I paddle. However, muscles seem to fatigue and slouching begins after an hour or so, so the wish for a brace. :) >>I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do >>not have a back band/brace of any sort. >No back brace? Get one that will support you and yet is low enough not to >interferre with rollling, etc. Many kayak stores and internet sites have >them listed. My P&H Capella has a nice back band. I'm wondering if the dealers (different ones) forgot to install the back band when I bought the Sirius and Spitzbergen. I will have to ask P&H about that. -- cheers, Stephen stephen.bird_at_superaje.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 07:40:22 -0400, I wrote: >I'm wondering if the dealers (different ones) forgot to install the back band >when I bought the Sirius and Spitzbergen. I will have to ask P&H about that. I need to correct the above-noted portion of my earlier message: the Spitz does indeed have a very nice back brace. I suspect that the Sirius I have, being a couple of years older than the Spitz, was manufactured without one. -- cheers, Stephen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Good evening, Subject: [Paddlewise] Back Band/Brace > Anyway, my problem/question concerns lower back discomfort (through the hips) > mostly while standing still (upright) while on land. The discomfort does not > occur while paddling/sitting, but is there while lying (trying to sleep). Lower back and hip pain often become chronic in many people. I recommend that you first ensure that you have no disc or alignment problems in your lower back. Secondly, consider strengthing and stretching exercises. Many paddlers ignore this preperation. Stiff and tight hamstrings often cause lower back problems. Stretching them will help you to sit up straight and have the proper alignment. > I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do not > have a back band/brace of any sort. No back brace? Get one that will support you and yet is low enough not to interferre with rollling, etc. Many kayak stores and internet sites have them listed. My P&H Capella has a nice back band. Regards, Jim Fitzgerald *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:36:45 -0400, Jim wrote: >>I'm wondering if the problem is related to the fact that my P&H kayaks do >>not have a back band/brace of any sort. >No back brace? Get one that will support you and yet is low enough not to >interferre with rollling, etc. Many kayak stores and internet sites have >them listed. My P&H Capella has a nice back band. I haven't heard back from P&H yet. I think that it is their holiday period. I got out my "certificate" (Sirius HF # 722) which has a photograph showing their Adjustable Deluxe Seat with no lower back brace/band. I suspect that this was not a part of the seat design when I purchased my kayak although it does have a spare paddle recess, retractable skeg, etc.. I have been able to find a nice 4" back band made by North Water. :) Many thanks to all Paddlewisers for your helpful suggestions... -- cheers, Stephen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Stephen Bird Wrote: << Anyway, my problem/question concerns lower back discomfort (through the hips) mostly while standing still (upright) while on land. The discomfort does not occur while paddling/sitting, but is there while lying (trying to sleep). >> Jim Fitzgerald wrote: << I recommend that you first ensure that you have no disc or alignment problems in your lower back. Secondly, consider strengthening and stretching exercises. Many paddlers ignore this preparation. Stiff and tight hamstrings often cause lower back problems. Stretching them will help you to sit up straight and have the proper alignment. >> Jed Luby adds: Few people in our relatively sedentary society find the seating position for a kayak naturally comfortable. Unless one has good lower back and abdominal musculature tone, there is a natural tendency to slouch in the seat. The slouching leads to stretching and further weakening of the lower back muscles. Overly tight hamstrings exacerbate the problem. Some manufacturers in North American have tried to accommodate these conditioning issues with seat backs that offer low back support at the expense of the ability to layback onto the back deck. The back bands supplied by some manufacturers are designed to keep your bottom from sliding off the back of the seat. To date, I know of no one that has developed a method to support the lower back without limiting mobility, nor do I believe such a support to be possible. My own back supports support my backside cheeks below my hip bones only, in other words they keep me from sliding off the seat but offer no lumbar support. This way, when I need to, I can lay on my back deck and rest for a few minutes. In a high performance kayak, the hips and kayak operate as a unit and the upper body should be able to rotate freely about the hips. The ability to maintain this mobility for long hours while seated without discomfort seems to be directly related to: Good flexibility and looseness of the Hamstrings and other hip muscles. Strong lower back, abdominal and related postural muscles. Good posture while seated in the kayak. Proper spine alignment. I suffer from a similar pain after paddling and I am the poster boy for the lack of conditioning described above. While lack of conditioning limits my ability to paddle for long hours, actively maintaining good posture minimizes the problems. As JimF said stretching is key, loosen your hamstrings, then strengthen your back and abs. If you don't have a back band, get one, but don't expect back support out of it. Best of luck, Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Good afternoon, > I'm wondering if the dealers (different ones) forgot to install the back band > when I bought the Sirius and Spitzbergen. I will have to ask P&H about that. I have paddled several P&H boats, including the Sirius. The Sirius had a back band. On their web site: http://www.phseakayaks.com/, you can see that their boats have back bands. Regards, Jim Fitzgerald *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:54 PM 8/27/00 -0400, Jim wrote: >Good afternoon, > >> I'm wondering if the dealers (different ones) forgot to install the back >band >> when I bought the Sirius and Spitzbergen. I will have to ask P&H about >that. > >I have paddled several P&H boats, including the Sirius. The Sirius had a >back band. So have I. I've also paddled a couple of P&H models that pre-dated the Sirius by several years that had back bands (anyone else ever paddle an Iona?) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:55:45 -0400, you wrote: >>>I'm wondering if the dealers (different ones) forgot to install the back >>>band when I bought the Sirius and Spitzbergen. I will have to ask P&H about >>>that. >>I have paddled several P&H boats, including the Sirius. The Sirius had a >>back band. >So have I. I've also paddled a couple of P&H models that pre-dated the >Sirius by several years that had back bands (anyone else ever paddle an Iona?) Much thanks for the info/feedback.... I've sent another message off to P&H. Hopefully Julian will get back to me sooner than later with the real-deal on the back band/brace. It would be nice to know whether or not the bb/b should have been part of my kayak... perhaps that is why P&H changed distributors in Canada? :) -- cheers, Stephen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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