Paddlewisers, In the past I replaced my rudder cables with cable (1/16" wire) I bought at a marine store, and I never had problems with them. But this last time I bought some cable (1/16" wire) that looks the same at a hardware store. A couple months later and the hardware store cable is stiff and has crap all over it. The lesson I learned is to make sure that the cable you use is MARINE GRADE! The cable just being stainless steel isn't good enough. Duane http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Just for the log After 15 years of believing my kayak didn´t need a rudder, this year I had a couple of experiences when I wish I had one ( I don´t think it a matter of the kayak, other than me getting older, fatter, not in proper shape, end so, easily getting tired. Anyway I needed it ). So I decided to make one. It is similar to the Perception but with a different comand. And being aware of the comand cable could be a problem, I prefered to use a rope called SPECTRA (in Argentina). This rope is the one used for parachutes. It has a kevlar core and if it expands, I really don´t noticed it. The cords slides through a rubber tube as long as it is operationally possible. I´m really happy with its behavior. Cheers ! UNIÓN DE KAYAKISTAS DE TRAVESÍA Fernando López Arbarello uktkayak_at_uol.com.ar *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I prefered to use a rope called >SPECTRA (in Argentina). This rope is the one used for parachutes. It has a >kevlar core and if it expands, I really don´t noticed it. The cords slides >through a rubber tube as long as it is operationally possible. I´m really >happy with its behavior. > >Fernando As Fernando says, Spectra is the way to go. If it does break you can tie a knot in it, something that isn't easy with wire. I've had wire break and I've had Spectra chaff through because the metal where it was tied on the rudder was too thin and not smooth. A little bit of care and there shouldn't be any maintenance needed for years. It does help to run the Spectra through tubes and we use home irrigation tubing, about 4 mm ID. and 2 mm Spectra. It might sound thin and look thin but that's all you need. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Alex Ferguson wrote: > > > I prefered to use a rope called > >SPECTRA (in Argentina). This rope is the one used for parachutes. It has a > >kevlar core and if it expands, I really don´t noticed it. The cords slides > >through a rubber tube as long as it is operationally possible. I´m really > >happy with its behavior. > > > >Fernando > > As Fernando says, Spectra is the way to go. If it does break you can tie a > knot in it, something that isn't easy with wire. This is what some of us have advised for Klepper rudders for years. While I still use the wire (which is in a rubber housing), the cord is a much better solution with less rubbing against you where the control wire comes alongside your arms and legs. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Without negating the comments made by Fernando and Alex...... Spectra is a trade name owned by Allied for a rope made of high modulus polyethylene (HMPE). see http://tensiontech.com/papers/fiber_id/fiber_id.htm for lots of good information on synthetic ropes/lines. IIRC, spectra is polyethylene (PE) that has been pre-stretched so as to be 'stronger', and as such it's strength lies in its ability to withstand tension. Spectra lines are used in sailing applications requiring high strength and low stretch lines, though the Spectra may be the core of a kernmantle line sheathed in another material. One telling characteristic of Spectra/HMPE is a stiffer 'hand'. Besides the pre-stretching, producers can also play with the molecular weight of the PE (how long the individual molecules of the plastic are), which will also alter the properties of the material. I remember hearing of a comparison that some professional whitewater guides made on the utility of rescue lines made of various types of line - while the Spectra throw line had impressive statistics on the lab bench, in real-life applications of setting up Z-drags to free a pinned raft, braided nylon lines were the best overall performer. A spectra rudder line in a tubing sheath should perform superbly, as it's a slippery, lightweight, non-rusting, low stretch material that doesn't absorb moisture. Areas of concern would be UV resistance, and how to attach it without kinking/stressing it, and thereby creating the 'weak link' point in the system. On the Prairie Coast, Erik Sprenne Fernando wrote: > > I prefered to use a rope called > >SPECTRA (in Argentina). This rope is the one used for parachutes. It has a > >kevlar core and if it expands, I really don´t noticed it. The cords slides > >through a rubber tube as long as it is operationally possible. > > Alex wrote: > As Fernando says, Spectra is the way to go..... > > It does help to run the Spectra through tubes and we use home irrigation > tubing, about 4 mm ID. and 2 mm Spectra. It might sound thin and look thin > but that's all you need. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
RE/ >A spectra rudder line in a tubing sheath should perform superbly, as it's a >slippery, lightweight, non-rusting, low stretch material that doesn't absorb >moisture. Areas of concern would be UV resistance, and how to attach it >without kinking/stressing it, and thereby creating the 'weak link' point in >the system. I'm using it in a section of my rudder control system right now. If/when I replace the SS cables, I'll add a length of bungee at the pedal end to act as a buffer - the idea being that one should be able to exert maximum force on both rudder pedals simultaneously without breaking or weakening anything....albeit one would have to learn to relax the opposite foot when turning instead of letting the force of the other foot push it back... ----------------------- Pete Cresswell *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote: > > RE/ > >A spectra rudder line in a tubing sheath should perform superbly, [snip] > I'm using it in a section of my rudder control system right now. > > If/when I replace the SS cables, I'll add a length of bungee at the pedal end to > act as a buffer - the idea being that one should be able to exert maximum force > on both rudder pedals simultaneously without breaking or weakening > anything....albeit one would have to learn to relax the opposite foot when > turning instead of letting the force of the other foot push it back... Why would you want **more spongy** rudder pedals -- won't that further compromise bracing? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>"(Pete Cresswell)" wrote: > > > If/when I replace the SS cables, I'll add a length of bungee at the > pedal end to > > act as a buffer - the idea being that one should be able to exert > maximum force > > on both rudder pedals simultaneously without breaking or weakening > > anything....albeit one would have to learn to relax the opposite foot when > > turning instead of letting the force of the other foot push it back... > >Why would you want **more spongy** rudder pedals -- won't that further >compromise bracing? > >Dave Kruger I agree with Dave, sponginess is the last thing you want. The rudder and fitting should be able to withstand pushing on both pedals. With my system you don't actually put force on the rudder fittings, it all goes on the pedal hinge and pedal platform which is built to withstand standing on if the kayak was vertical and all your weight was on it. Even if this were not the case, the rudder is bult strongly enough to take all the weight that might be put on it. In Pete's case, what is he actually pushing against? Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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