From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com >I'd really like some kind of roller system at the very end of the back of the >roof. I saw something that might work in the German REIMO camping catalog - >will check on how it works and how much it is. I too had trouble loading my kayak alone wherein I had saddles in the front, rollers in the back. A friend suggested I put rollers on the the back factory bar, which I did. I use a bathroom carpet that fits around the toilet on the top guard of the back hatch; now I just have to lean the bow against the rollers, lift up the stern, a little push & the kayak goes on so easy that it's unbelieveable. It looks like the same concept would work on your rig but might involve having another crossbar permanently mounted further back of your vehicle. Sure would save wear & tear on your paintjob & you could leave the ladder at home.....just a thought.........I am perhaps a little too new to be making suggestions but it made it possible for me to load/unload alone. Sandi Vancouver WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <SLLenton_at_aol.com> > It looks like the same concept would work on your rig but > might involve having another crossbar permanently mounted further back of > your vehicle. My only caution of having multiple bars on the roof would be not to secure the kayak to more than two bars at a time. Two supports is statically determinate and the kayak flexing is independent of the vehicle. Three or more supports could, in theory, put undue stress on the kayak. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I got back a couple days ago from a paddling trip to Lake Huron's Georgian Bay and North Channel. Not a bad trip, but the weather could have been better, and I'm looking forward to going back some day. Since I didn't want to put up a long post, and there are some photos involved, I've put a trip report on my web page: http://www2.dmci.net/users/wesboyd/kayak.htm -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > I got back a couple days ago from a paddling trip to Lake Huron's Georgian > Bay and North Channel. Not a bad trip, but the weather could have been > better, and I'm looking forward to going back some day. > Interesting report, Wes. It sounds like you had a few problems with the parks. I've only been to Grundy once, and it's not representative of the provincial parks. The biggest problems with the parks are the several million people that live to the south of Georgian Bay - in Toronto and its surrounding cities. They flock to those parks every weekend between July 1 and Labour Day in September. The best time to go is on the shoulder seasons - I prefer kayak camping in Georgian Bay in September and October. The biggest drawback is it can get pretty cool and/or rainy. If you reserve in advance in prime season, however, you shouldn't have a problem. You can reserve by the internet, by phone or by fax - like a hotel, you get a guaranteed reservation the first night if you use your credit card. Otherwise they release the site after 6 pm. You mentioned Sturgeon Bay PP. It's a very small park, the smallest in the province, I believe. It's pretty, but it's in the middle of a cottage area and there's a marina to the immediate north. The marina thinks the world wants to hear its PA system til all hours. I enjoyed a weekend up there a couple of years ago in the fall nonetheless. I like Killbear PP. It's a family-oriented park and it's the largest in the province in terms of the number of camping sites. It's not as bad as Grundy. If you stay away from the Kilcoursie Bay part of the park, where the nicest beach is, you'll avoid the worst of the family crowds. The bay fills up with power boats, whose owners think the rest of the world wants to gawk at them sunbathing off the beach. Go to the other parts of the park. You can launch your kayak from smaller beaches or directly from your campsite in some places. There's lots of nice day paddling out from the park. To really enjoy Georgian Bay, you should skip the car camping. Massasauga PP, to the south of Parry Sound, is a water-access-only park. You'll compete with power boaters for campsites in prime season, but if you reserve or use the off season you'll be fine. The "interior" sites are harder to get to without a kayak or canoe, so those are nicer. Snug Harbour, down the road from White Squall is a good spot to launch from. Contrary to the recent article in Sea Kayaker, there is free parking nearby. There is no launch fee either. You can paddle out to Franklin Island, Snake Island and a lot of other places. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> My only caution of having multiple bars on the roof would be not to secure > the kayak to more than two bars at a time. Two supports is statically > determinate and the kayak flexing is independent of the vehicle. Three > or more supports could, in theory, put undue stress on the kayak. > Depends on the vehicle (and the boat :-). I drive a Mitsu pickup, and on this vehicle the truck bed 'flexes' and moves independantly of the cab of the truck. I've got three racks/crossbars I *can* use - two on the cap (which is on the bed of the truck), and a third rack on the cab of the truck. For carrying whitewater kayaks and solo canoes I use only the two racks on the cap. For carrying the sea kayak, I use saddles on the rear-most cap rack and on the cab rack - but am mindful of the independent movement of the cab and the bed of the truck. Until I worked out my optimum knot system, I had the ropes come loose several times, but with the bow line, no damage was done. The saddles help absorb the stresses due to the differential movement of the two crossbars, and insulate the sea kayak from the twisting motions. With the tandem open boat, I tie it down to all three racks - the Tripper can take the twisting and the differential stresses.... With a van, car, or pickup of 'unibody' construction, there should be no reason why three tie-downs cannot be used for any kind of boat. One could argue that more tiedown points equates to a safer transport system. On the prairie coast, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Erik Sprenne writes: > > I drive a Mitsu pickup, and on this vehicle the truck bed 'flexes' and moves > independantly of the cab of the truck. I've got three racks/crossbars I > *can* use - two on the cap (which is on the bed of the truck), and a third > rack on the cab of the truck. For carrying whitewater kayaks and solo > canoes I use only the two racks on the cap. For carrying the sea kayak, I > use saddles on the rear-most cap rack and on the cab rack - but am mindful > of the independent movement of the cab and the bed of the truck. Until I > worked out my optimum knot system, I had the ropes come loose several times, > but with the bow line, no damage was done. The saddles help absorb the > stresses due to the differential movement of the two crossbars, and insulate > the sea kayak from the twisting motions. With the tandem open boat, I tie > it down to all three racks - the Tripper can take the twisting and the > differential stresses.... Thanks for posting this Erik! I have the exact same system set up. I bought fixed yakima bars because they have take a higher load than the sliding/flexible system. So I ended up with 3 bars. For my WW boat, I load up the last two bars, when putting on the sea kayak I have hulley rollers in the back, skip the middle and use cradles on the cab. rollers xtra bar cradle oo____o_______ __*__ / || \___ / || \ Truck Canopy Truck cab When the owner of the local Kayak shop saw this he warned that he had heard of kayaks getting stress fractures from the independent movement of the cab from the truck body. My ?: has anyone else heard of this happening? If so, what can I do to prevent it from being a problem. My guess is that I don't want to tighten down the strap over the cradle. I tie the kayak down bow and stern in an inverted V to loops (actually a U) bolted to the front and back of the car (front right and front left bumper and rear left and rear right bumber, just on the side as the bumper wraps around on the front and on the rear for the back bumper). rear view kayak on top right on hulley rollers with a tie down to rear right and left bumber U bolts. ___o\/o / . .\ /__.____._\ | . .| |u_______u| || || Is this configuration going to still put too much stress from the independent motion of the cab? Is my only other recourse to give up the bar over the cab and install a fixed bar on the furthest forward part of the canopy? My only other thought on this is that the stresses would be dependent on the driving conditions. If I was driving off road or on very rough roads the cab vs. body of truck motion would become more extreme. Any thoughts on this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- snark_at_tulgey.org aka Glen Acord http://www.tulgey.org/~snark if ($snark eq "boojum") {vanish("softly","suddenly")} *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Subj: Cradles/rollers for EuroVan racks? > > My only caution of having multiple bars on the roof would be not to secure > > the kayak to more than two bars at a time. Two supports is statically > > determinate and the kayak flexing is independent of the vehicle. Three > > or more supports could, in theory, put undue stress on the kayak. > > > Depends on the vehicle (and the boat :-). > > I drive a Mitsu pickup, and on this vehicle the truck bed 'flexes' and moves > independantly of the cab of the truck. Another not so obvious problem is if the case where the three bars are not quite level with each other. In that case, you'd be bending the kayak over the bars. I'm not so sure unibody construction is free of problems. I've seen some pretty flexible van roofs. It would depend on how your rack is attached to the roof. Mike PS - this is similar of course to the problem of reefing hard on the bow and stern lines if you tie down the ends of your kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly writes: > <snip - a discussion of hazards of using a third bar on a front cab > of a pickup truck> > > PS - this is similar of course to the problem of reefing hard on the bow > and stern lines if you tie down the ends of your kayak. Pardon my nautical ignorance, but does reefing refer to tightening a line as well (as the definition below)? When looking up reefing, I find - reef (noun) 1 : a part of a sail taken in or let out in regulating size 2 : reduction in sail area by reefing reef (verb) 1 : to reduce the area of (a sail) by rolling or folding a portion 2 : to lower or bring inboard (a spar) wholly or partially intransitive senses : to reduce a sail by taking in a reef Is having taut bow and stern tie down lines a problem? What have people experienced or heard about this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- snark_at_tulgey.org aka Glen Acord http://www.tulgey.org/~snark if ($snark eq "boojum") {vanish("softly","suddenly")} *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> ----- Original Message ----- > "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> > "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> .. > Mike > > PS - this is similar of course to the problem of reefing hard on the bow and stern lines if you tie down the ends of your kayak. Ralph Hoehn here, the PS caught my eye: My station old wagon still has heavy duty rain gutters, which allow pretty secure attachment of an old heavy, beefy roof rack. I sometimes cartop my flexible folding double over considerable distances (I do not carry it packed it up on these occasions largely because it makes a convenient and streamlined roof storage container for the rest of the beach gear with the cockpit cover in place :-). I DO NOT run a stern line to the rear bumper any more and only a relatively loose bow line as final insurance. The racks are far enough apart for us not to experience any flex or flutter even without these lines. I do run lines port and starboard from the bow back to the front and rear racks as preventer stays just in case of any potential need for drastic braking. The boat is held to the racks very securely by broad webbing straps. The racks are placed as far apart as possible and in such a way that they coincide with frame positions in the boat. This system has withstood high winds, high speeds, severe braking and an inspection by the highway patrol. I will have to rethink it when the car finally gives out and I am forced to buy something without those good old raingutters, but until then it appears to be the best way to go for fuel efficiency, security and least wear on the gear. Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com http://www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/7/00 12:30:54 PM, FoldingBoats_at_aol.com writes: << I do run lines port and starboard from the bow back to the front and rear racks as preventer stays just in case of any potential need for drastic braking. >> he was mentioning factory racks over the installed Yak or Thule racks. This is an idea I can live with. I used the bow and stern lines for a bit but got so nervous about the results of a light bumper tap that I took them off. I can't use them on the red boat because it is too short to clear the paint job on the hood. This gives me the safety of the lines, without the need of a new boat or paint job. I have factory racks and Yak racks on the factory thingys. I can attach the lines to the factory racks if I have any concern for the racks, as a whole, which I don't. I simply can't visualize loosing 2 boats and the racks and the rollers/cradles in one motion. I would think that I'd see/hear/feel something if the 150 pounds of plastic, fiberglass and metal was attempting a divorce from the Jeep. One of the women I paddled with yesterday was asking about how often I changed out the straps on the racks. I really have not given a lot of thought to the idea that the buckle itself could give out. I tie the ends of the straps rather well as a backup to the straps. I have to replace the Yak straps I got with the roller/saddle set. Two summer seasons is a reasonable life to my purse. They are faded and a bit knocked about. Oh, thinking of that, Woody mentioned that he was thinking of turning the wing nuts on his cradles around. As I was putting a new bar on my truck I took a few minutes to turn the bolts/nuts around. They had been catching the straps and a lot of the wear and tear was from the straps being in contact with the nuts and bolts. It was not too big a problem to adjust the eight of the saddles with the nuts to the inside. It looks a lot better and I expect substantially fewer broken finger nails and barked up fingers while strapping the boats on. Joan Spinner Paddling the Chesapeake Bay watershed Yellow/white CD Gulfstream Red CD Breeze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "B00jum!" <snark_at_tulgey.org> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Subj: Cradles/rollers for EuroVan racks? > Michael Daly writes: > > <snip - a discussion of hazards of using a third bar on a front cab > > of a pickup truck> > > > > PS - this is similar of course to the problem of reefing hard on the bow > > and stern lines if you tie down the ends of your kayak. > > Pardon my nautical ignorance, but does reefing refer to tightening a > line as well (as the definition below)? When looking up reefing, I > find - >[...] Reef, in the context of pulling tight or hard, may be a bit of nautical slang, rather than a proper use of the word. I've always assumed it comes from the act of reefing a sail, since, if you have to do it, it takes a tug to get the sail down and the reef points tied in (assuming you don't cheat and use a roller reefing rig). (I was out paddling today and did a 7 km open water crossing in winds where every sailboat out had a reefed main! Fun - especially sidesurfing a whitecap that broke on me!) > Is having taut bow and stern tie down lines a problem? What have > people experienced or heard about this? > You could put enough tension in the bow and stern lines to bend the kayak seriously - even to the point of breaking. This could be worsened if the lines are wet nylon and they dry, and shrink, as you drive. I only put enough tension in the lines to keep the kayak snug. The bow line acts a backup in the event that the kayak front saddle loses its hold. Since it (the older Thule saddle) has two little rivets holding the saddle in, the rivets can corrode and they are hard to inspect, I prefer to have it backed up. Also, as Ralph pointed out a while ago, bow lines stablize the kayak when a cross wind (or big truck) hits you suddenly. On a small car like mine, the stern line holds the kayak and provides some resistance to sliding back. I also use a line from the bow running aft to prevent the kayak from sliding forward in an abrupt stop. Any kayak that is only held in two places has no margin of safety. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do you find the lack of privacy a problem?? >>> that fits around the toilet on the top guard of the back hatch; >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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