Michael Daly wrote: > Erik Sprenne wrote: > > > My only caution of having multiple bars on the roof would be not to secure > > > the kayak to more than two bars at a time. Two supports is statically > > > determinate and the kayak flexing is independent of the vehicle. Three > > > or more supports could, in theory, put undue stress on the kayak. > > > > > Depends on the vehicle (and the boat :-). > > > > I drive a Mitsu pickup, and on this vehicle the truck bed 'flexes' and moves > > independantly of the cab of the truck. > > Another not so obvious problem is if the case where the three bars are not > quite level with each other. In that case, you'd be bending the kayak over > the bars. > True, but I'd like to think that paddlers would be aware of how tightly they are tying/strapping/attaching their boats to the transporting vehicle. Ideally, one should strive to attach the boat loosely enough so that there are no induced stresses imposed on the boat, but tightly enough so that the boat will not fly off the rack at highway speeds, even in the instance of sudden braking, or (heaven forbid!) a collision with some other moving or inanimate object. As with paddling itself, transporting the boat involves a risk assessment, and a choice of whether or not to use bow/stern lines and possibly extra attachment points. There *is* a learning curve to be climbed in transporting boats. > I'm not so sure unibody construction is free of problems. I've seen some > pretty flexible van roofs. It would depend on how your rack is attached to > the roof. > And how tightly one ties/straps the boat to the racks/saddles/etc. for a given vehicle. Plastic boats can generally be tied tighter than fiberglass boats (unless you own a British 'heavy' <g>), as plastic will deform and recover its shape without permanent marks, while fiberglass boats will flex only to a certain degree, after which they will suffer irreversible damage. Not only do new paddlers have to learn how boats handle on the water, they also have to obtain a feel for how hard they can crank down on the attachment points when transporting the boats. The key thing is to *not* let the boats fly off the vehicle during transport. If one is tying/strapping a fiberglass boat to a vehicle and hears cracking noises, it's best to let up a tad on the attachment point, and possibly set up a backup/redundant system. e.g. - in transporting canoes on my truck, not only do I tie a rope over the canoe on each crossbar, I also tie the thwarts to the crossbars, and sometimes (for solo FG canoes)/always (for the tandem ABS boat) use bow and/or stern lines to the bumper(s). Many years ago I got stopped for speeding with a 17' canoe on my Honda Civic. Besides informing me that I was outside the bounds of the law, the police officer started lecturing me on the dangers of having a canoe fly off a vehicle at 'excessive' driving speeds. After I showed him that there was *no way* that the canoe would fly off the vehicle, he softened his stance on the danger of flying canoes, but I still got a speeding ticket Erik Sprenne on the Prairie Coast *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Erik Sprenne wrote: > > Michael Daly wrote: > > > And how tightly one ties/straps the boat to the racks/saddles/etc. for a > given vehicle. Plastic boats can generally be tied tighter than fiberglass > boats (unless you own a British 'heavy' <g>), as plastic will deform and > recover its shape without permanent marks, while fiberglass boats will flex > only to a certain degree, after which they will suffer irreversible damage. > This may be as good a place as any to talk about strapping down folding kayaks on a roofrack. The rule I use is crank them down real hard so much so that your strap or rope is indenting the sponsons by quite a bit. I have done this regularly for a dozen years with a variety of foldables with no damage whatsoever. The secret though is what you are cranking them down on. I used cradles at one time but I am not certain they really are all that important with a foldable. The odds that the cradles will line up with crossribs are rare and all the cradle will be is against fabric and some long pieces. A better solution is to use commercially available windsurfer pads around the roof rack bars or use pipe insulation tubes. This gives you something soft and cushioning to crank down the foldable against. (BTW, try not to draw straps across the deck fabric any more than necessary as that can wear at deck coatings, i.e. throw the straps over the top and pull them over loosely until you have buckled the loose end; then you can cinch down real hard to that sponson-indentation extreme.) I bring this all up because I have at times seen people who say their foldable doesn't cartop well. I look at how they strap down and they act as if they were strapping down an ostrich egg, i.e. gingerly. Not necessary at all. But the cushioning is important. Years ago I had Doug Simpson, co-founder of Feathercraft, here for a meeting and later we went paddling to the Statue of Liberty using 2 of his K-Lights and the Klepper Aerius I that I owned at the time. We made the boats in my hallway because it was wintertime in NYC and we didn't want to freeze while doing this. When it came time to put them on my minivan's roofrack, we discovered that some one had stolen the rear Thule rack. Since I had factory racks below them, we just did the best we could. We cartopped to the launch site and later back to knock down the boats on the street near his hotel on Broadway. As I pulled the rear frame half of the Klepper out of the skin, the chine rod came apart in my hand; it was broken. Here I was with a break in a wooden frame with, of all people, the major proponent of aluminum framed boats. Doug looked over and in his driest Western Canadian voice said "Ralph, does that happen often?" What had happened was that the rear factory rack was not padded and in cinching down the boats too much pressure was put on that chine rod. I also like to think that it was also my self sacrifice of putting my Klepper on the bottom to protect one of Doug's K-Lights since the three boats could not all fit side by side on my rack. :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated Tue, 8 Aug 2000 9:30:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> writes: --------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." --------------- .. This may be as good a place as any to talk about strapping down folding kayaks on a roofrack. ... Years ago I had Doug Simpson, co-founder of Feathercraft, here for a meeting and later we went paddling to the Statue of Liberty using 2 of his K-Lights and the Klepper Aerius I that I owned at the time. We made the boats in my hallway because it was wintertime in NYC and we didn't want to freeze while doing this. When it came time to put them on my minivan's roofrack, we discovered that some one had stolen the rear Thule rack. Since I had factory racks below them, we just did the best we could. We cartopped to the launch site and later back to knock down the boats on the street near his hotel on Broadway. As I pulled the rear frame half of the Klepper out of the skin, the chine rod came apart in my hand; it was broken. Here I was with a break in a wooden frame with, of all people, the major proponent of aluminum framed boats. Doug looked over and in his driest Western Canadian voice said "Ralph, does that happen often?" ... Ralph, I cannot resist: In the 25 years or so that I have been in charge of securing the boats to the roof rack, my old Pouch double has always got the bottom berth with any hardshells partly or fully on top. My roof rack (so old it has no maker's markings left) bars are merely padded with some foam pipe lagging. The old Pouch of course has no cushioning sponsons. Remember, I rely on the straps across the boats to hold them (see previous description), so I put them under considerable tension. I have yet to break any parts of the Pouch frame ... :-) Truth be told, your chine bar must have been weakened by something else because they do not just break from steady compression! "The Other Ralph" Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com http://www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Erik Sprenne > on the Prairie Coast > True, but I'd like to think that paddlers would be aware of how tightly they > are tying/strapping/attaching their boats to the transporting vehicle. > Ideally, one should strive to attach the boat loosely enough so that there > are no induced stresses imposed on the boat, but tightly enough so that the > boat will not fly off the rack at highway speeds, even in the instance of > sudden braking, or (heaven forbid!) a collision with some other moving or > inanimate object. As with paddling itself, transporting the boat involves a > risk assessment, and a choice of whether or not to use bow/stern lines and > possibly extra attachment points. There *is* a learning curve to be climbed > in transporting boats. Yep I've experianced this "learning curve", but some staps are simply designed to strap the load with more force then a kayak can take. I started out with cam straps, only to find that they work loose over a long journey (especailly gravel roads). Then went on to rachet tie downs, which only suceeded in deforming my plastic kayak, or if not done up as tight - working loose. Now I'm trying simple snap lock staps (like on a PFD but more heavy duty). For piece of mind I modified them by adding a couple of D buckles (above the male lock) which are a first line of defence in the snap locks breaking, they also keep tension on the strap to stop it from slipping through the locks. So far they have never worked loose, survived gale force winds when driving, and have the added advantage of taking less time to do up. You can also never over tighten them enough to deform or crack a kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Grant - For securing the kayak to cartop - "straps....rachet tie downs....cam locks....snap locks....D buckles...." Here's an idea - How about a couple of nice *ropes*??? Quick and easy to secure and undo, don't loosen, relatively inexpensive. ;-) Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One of the things I love about my K-light is how easy it is to transport. I have a convertible, so I just put the roof down, fold the passenger seat back, and stick the kayak in. For trips of any length, I strap the boat in using one strap around the coaming and the car seat body. Even at freeway speeds in California I have never had any problems with this arrangement (other than the funny looks I sometimes get). From takeout to on the road my time is usually about a minute. Course in Norfolk last winter the trip home could get pretty darned cold! See you on the water, Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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