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From: Shawn W. Baker <baker_at_montana.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability of folding kayaks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:14:25 -0600
Kevin Whilden wrote:
>> I have never seen a more confused
>> mixture of  2-3 foot high boils with an occasional deep violent whirlpool.
>> Even the hardcore whitewater crazies avoid that place,

Ralph Diaz wrote:
>Sounds ominous.  I would not want to be in that stuff ever.  Who would?

Some people call that fun!

>But I have seen folding kayaks go over nearly that much and just right
>themselves.  

I think it's easier in a narrower boat to regularly practice and
"establish" that tipping point so you know exactly "where" the boat is,
and how it is reacting to the water.  In a very wide ("stable") boat, it
is more difficult to establish that edge.  If you're tilted way up on
edge by an errant wave, you're trusting to the boat's secondary
stability, but not quite sure when and where (and if!) it is going to
kick in.

I'm not knocking folding boats (never paddled one) but I have a harder
time with beamy boats in confused seas than a narrower boat, but that's
just my perception.

Shawn

-- 
Shawn W. Baker          0                                    46°53'N
© 2000            ____©/______                              114°06'W
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\  ,/      /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
baker_at_montana.com    0        http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/
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From: Shawn W. Baker <baker_at_montana.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability of folding kayaks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:20:35 -0600
But would said expert in the stable boat or said expert in the tippy
boat reach exhaustion first?

Shawn
And after typing that I realized it sounds a lot like the chicken/egg
question.

Rob Cookson wrote:
>I would suggest that if you put one expert in a tippy boat and one expert in
>a stable boat (both boats that the experts are familiar with) they would
>both stay upright until the point of exhaustion and then capsize.  I will
>say that with two novices in the same situation I have always seen the
>skinny boat capsize first.


-- 
Shawn W. Baker          0                                    46°53'N
© 2000            ____©/______                              114°06'W
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\  ,/      /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
baker_at_montana.com    0        http://www.geocities.com/shawnkayak/
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From: Rob Cookson <rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Instability of folding kayaks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:46:16 -0700
Hi Shawn and All,


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Shawn W. Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 1:21 PM
>
>
> But would said expert in the stable boat or said expert in the tippy
> boat reach exhaustion first?

Ya got me Shawn.  Too many variables for my small brain.  Guess it all comes
down to a my expert is better than your expert contest.

I think the bottom line is find a boat that suits your needs and have fun.

>
> Shawn
> And after typing that I realized it sounds a lot like the chicken/egg
> question.

By the way...

I think the good Doctor Inverbon knows the answer to the chicken and egg
question.  Perhaps his humble scribe could relay our burning curiosity to
him.

Cheers,

--
Rob Cookson
"I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the
Atmosphere." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to Abigail Adams, February 22,
1787.



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From: <FoldingBoats_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability of folding kayaks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:04:43 EDT
"Shawn W. Baker" <baker_at_montana.com> writes:

SNIP
.. I think it's easier in a narrower boat to regularly practice and "establish" that tipping point so you know exactly "where" the boat is, and how it is reacting to the water.  ... I'm not knocking folding boats (never paddled one) but I have a harder time with beamy boats in confused seas than a narrower boat, but that's just my perception.
Shawn
-- 
Shawn, that's exactly why, in commenting Ralph Diaz's earlier post, I suggested that bracing, sculling and rolling practice is a useful "circus act" even in a folding boat, to be practiced right alongside assisted and unassisted rescues, which is standard practice in the non-folding kayaking world.

Ralph C. Hoehn
Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com
http://www.PouchBoats.com
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From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Instability of folding kayaks
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:21:25 -0400
I was in my rather narrow boat with a couple of people in those wider,
stabler boats(a Romany and a Baja) having a conversation (stationary) on
the Delaware river a couple of weeks ago, A rather large boat wake swept
us up.  my boat went up and down very vertically while theirs swaggered
from side to side, I'm sure that they subconsciously compensated with
weight shifts.  
I think dealing with this in rather turbulent waters for any length of
time could be fatiguing, even more so in a boat with a firm initial
stability.
It seems that my boat has no primary stability and it requires very
little effort to put and maintain a edge for a length of time.  I am not
fighting that primary stability.

-- 
:                         :
Gabriel L Romeu                                                      :
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http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR  life as a tourist, daily
journal         :
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objects

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