Greetings, I have Nautiraid kayak whose frame will need a new varnish job done before next season. I am planning to strip old varnish off, and put epoxy instead. Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea? If not, what can I use to restore the frame of my kayak? Pawel Palkiewicz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Apparently there has been a double sea kayaking fatality in the San Juans. For more information: http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/foun23ww.shtml -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > > Apparently there has been a double sea kayaking fatality in the San Juans. > > For more information: > > http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/foun23ww.shtml Quoting from the above-referenced Seattle Times article: > A small-craft advisory was issued for the area Thursday night, when the forecast called for winds of 25 to 30 knots and wind waves measuring 3 to 5 feet, the National Weather Service said. Much calmer conditions -- 10-knot winds and 1- to 2-foot wind waves -- had been forecast for Wednesday. > We were camped on a small island some 30 miles to the NW of Lummi Is. / Orcas Is. last week, and experienced sustained 10-15 knot N/NW winds all day Thursday, followed by several hours of much higher winds from the **South** that night (branches were knocked off trees near our campsite). Our island was relatively protected, being "downwind" from larger islands to the N and S. I suspect winds in Georgia Strait and the waters connecting it to Rosario Strait would have been some 10 knots greater in velocity. A sad event. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > > Apparently there has been a double sea kayaking fatality in the San Juans. > > For more information: > > http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/foun23ww.shtml I guess we will hear more about this in coming days from people closer to the scene. One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. Most paddlers that I have run across are in their mid-30s and up. The sea kayaking community on the East Coast, at least the many hundreds I have met, are an older lot. Both of the kayakers who died were University of Washington students. Seattle being a thriving sea kayaking populated area probably tends to draw university students to the activity. Here in the East, we don't have such sharply concentrated areas of sea kayaking that would have such spillover into the university community. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:42 PM 9/24/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote: >Both of the kayakers who died were University of Washington students. >Seattle being a thriving sea kayaking populated area probably tends to >draw university students to the activity. Here in the East, we don't >have such sharply concentrated areas of sea kayaking that would have >such spillover into the university community. Indeed, the University of Washington has a very active kayak club called the University Kayak Club (http://students.washington.edu/~ukc/main/UKCmain.cgi). We have a fleet of 13 sea kayaks, 20+ whitewater kayaks, and all of the auxiliary gear including drytops and wetsuits. Trips go out year round. We have usually around 400 members by the end of each school year. I'm quite proud to be part of the UKC, which teaches many students how to kayak in an extremely safety conscious manner. We checked the UKC roster, and neither of the two missing kayakers was a UKC member. Regarding the double fatality, I would say that the trip those two embarked upon was extremely ambitious. Many exposed crossings of more than three miles, very strong currents and exposure to extremely long fetch to the north (Strait of Georgia). The crossing from Patos to Tumbo island involves crossing Boiling Reef, with severe tide rips, and Haro Strait. There is also Parker Reef, which appears prominently in a story in Deep Trouble. Given that their kayak was found on the north shore of Orcas, and one body was found in Rosario Strait, I wonder if Parker Reef is what did them in. A kayak would be blown to shore quickly in the north wind, while a body would follow the currents conceivably around Lawrence Point and into Rosario Strait. My inference from the story is that they were in a double kayak. Perhaps the extra width and primary stability of most doubles combined with 3-4 beam seas along their projected east-west route is a contributing factor to their probable capsize and inability to self-rescue. (flameproof underwear donned :) Kevin Kevin Whilden Your Planet Earth http://www.yourplanetearth.org (206) 788-0281 (ph) (206) 788-0284 (f) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----------- Original Message ----------- From: kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:29:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Double fatality >>Perhaps the extra width and primary stability of most doubles combined with 3-4 beam seas along their projected east-west route is a contributing factor to their probable capsize and inability to self-rescue. (flameproof underwear donned :) Kevin<< Boxers or Briefs? Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 09/25/2000 12:10:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net writes: << Boxers or Briefs? >> Silk or cotton? sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kevin Whilden writes: > At 02:42 PM 9/24/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote: > > >Both of the kayakers who died were University of Washington students. > >Seattle being a thriving sea kayaking populated area probably tends to > >draw university students to the activity. Here in the East, we don't > >have such sharply concentrated areas of sea kayaking that would have > >such spillover into the university community. > > <snip> > safety conscious manner. We checked the UKC roster, and neither of the two > missing kayakers was a UKC member. > > Regarding the double fatality, I would say that the trip those two embarked > upon was extremely ambitious. Many exposed crossings of more than three > <snip> Thanks Kevin for your comments on the areas they crossed. Perhaps ignorance of local conditions contributed to the accident. Yes, I know - its yet another generalization.. In the interest of non-generalization, has any new information come out about the accident? A few things I'd like to know. How much experience did they have? Where they dressed for immersion? Did they have any signal/safety devices on them? Does anyone know if there was a pre-trip plan laid out, and if so - how extensive was it. Am I mising any really obvious questions? For that matter - has anyone come up with an accident report check list of things to find out to determine the possible cause(s) of a sea kayak accident? I could see a check list like this being useful to 'cover the basis' when trying to put together an accident report to share with kayak clubs, magazines and paddlewise. Who would be the people to contact when an accident has occured in order to get this information out to the paddling community? What protocol or etiquette would be used with the agencies/people involved? Glen Acord - Eugene, OR Member: WKCC, OKCC, UO/OP, OOPS Boats: Neckie Rip (WW) and waiting on my SK. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:42 PM 9/24/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote: >Wes Boyd wrote: >> > >One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have >been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 >who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. >Most paddlers that I have run across are in their mid-30s and up. The >sea kayaking community on the East Coast, at least the many hundreds I >have met, are an older lot. Based on all the symposiums that I've been to I've noticed that sea kayakers tend to be a bit older as well, but there doesn't seem to be an upper limit. It's also interesting to note how many paddlers didn't start they were past 40. However, living in a college town I do see quite a few of the students coming down to my friends shop to rent a boat for the day. I don't see that many of them that get into it more seriously, and fewer still that buy their own boats (or have their parents buy them one). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > > Wes Boyd wrote: > > > > Apparently there has been a double sea kayaking fatality in the San Juans. > > > > For more information: > > > > http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/foun23ww.shtml > One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have > been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 > who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. > Most paddlers that I have run across are in their mid-30s and up. The > sea kayaking community on the East Coast, at least the many hundreds I > have met, are an older lot. That's true out here, also, I suspect, if the crowd makeup at the West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium last week is representative. I think the investment needed to get started puts off folks who are struggling with a mortgage, etc. Also, when I was in my twenties, I probably needed more of an adrenaline rush in my out of doors activities than I do now! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:14 PM 9/24/00 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > >> One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have >> been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 >> who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. >> Most paddlers that I have run across are in their mid-30s and up. The >> sea kayaking community on the East Coast, at least the many hundreds I >> have met, are an older lot. It does seem as if it's a sport that has an older appeal. We do have a few Paddlewisers in their 20s -- but most are considerably older, if I remember the "who we are" type posts correctly. I'm not sure why that is, although I have a few theories. >That's true out here, also, I suspect, if the crowd makeup at the West Coast >Sea Kayaking Symposium last week is representative. I think the investment >needed to get started puts off folks who are struggling with a mortgage, etc. I don't quite buy that. A $2000 or $3000 sea kayak may seem expensive, but I see a lot of people in their 20s screwing around on the lake with a pair of jet skis that have to cost $7000-$8000 each, or more. I can think of any number of other examples, but that's the one that happens to come to mind. If you want to do it, you'll spend the money, and there are cheaper ways to kayak than a brand new, top of the line boat. >Also, when I was in my twenties, I probably needed more of an adrenaline rush >in my out of doors activities than I do now! Yeah, me too, I guess, thinking of the ways I used to treat airplanes at that age. But there's plenty of adrenaline available in sea kayaking, too, if you look for it -- not that I do, any more. But think of all the kayak surfing and storm paddling discussions we've had. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have > been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 > who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that, but now that I do it does seem like everyone I run across sea kayaking is around my age (early 40's in my case). One exception, though, is children of people I know who sea kayak. I do know some people with college age kids who are avid kayakers, having learned from their parents. A parent could do worse, no? Sad, though, such young people dying. . . Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I find myself a somewhat anomalous sea kayaker at 28; it seems like most of the folks I run into are in their mid-30's or older. Oddly enough, most of the whitewater kayakers I know are my age or a bit *younger*. .ashton On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Sailboat Restorations, Inc. wrote: > > One thing struck me...their ages. The two guys were 20 and 22. I have > > been scratching my head to recall _anyone_ I know under the age of 25 > > who sea kayaks. I have hardly run across anyone under 30 in the sport. > > Interesting point. I hadn't thought about that, but now that I do it does > seem like everyone I run across sea kayaking is around my age (early 40's in > my case). One exception, though, is children of people I know who sea > kayak. I do know some people with college age kids who are avid kayakers, > having learned from their parents. A parent could do worse, no? Sad, > though, such young people dying. . . > Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The other victim's body has been found, so it's definitely a double fatality. The story pointed to below has a little additional information. I doubt that the whole story will ever come out, under the circumstances. For more information: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000924/us/brf_missing_kayakers_4.html Condolences to the families. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> However, living in a college town I do see quite a few >of the students coming down to my friends shop to rent a boat for the day. >I don't see that many of them that get into it more seriously, and fewer >still that buy their own boats (or have their parents buy them one). Then again, unless the student is living off campus, where is he going to keep a boat? It's often difficult enough just to keep a car on campus..... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The epoxy will waterproof the wood, but you should still put varnish on the epoxy as UV protection (for the epoxy). John Pawel Palkiewicz wrote: > > Greetings, > I have Nautiraid kayak whose frame will need a new > varnish job done before next season. I am planning to > strip old varnish off, and put epoxy instead. Can > anyone tell me if this is a good idea? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Pawel, I'm half way through varnishing my first boat, a folding kayak built from plans, so now's a good time to describe what I'm doing to see if I'm doing it right. There are three types of wood I used, ash for stringers and gunwales, okoume for ribs, and rotary cut mahogany for bottom (really poor way of saving money in the long run). Here are my thoughts: 1. Epoxy does not have UV protection. Anywhere you use it you should use varnish over it for protection. 2. The open ends on the mahogany I first sealed with Interlux Interprime Wood Sealer. Two coats on edges, one on faces. Not necessary on your Nautiraid though. Sand between coats and after with 220 grit paper. 3. Then coated mahogany bottom, and okoume ribs with West Systems epoxy, 105 resin and 205 hardener. Doesn't soak in as much as varnish, like I thought. This was my first time using it, had some small bubbles, found that by tipping off with a foam brushes helped. As an aside I found poly brush's at a craft store (same as West Marine)1 inch brushes four for 89 cents, 2 inch brushes 3 for 89 cents. Sand between coats with 220 grit. I did about 2 coats. Rotary cut mahogany is terrible, all nooks and crannies. Glad I used sealer first on it. Didn't bother sealing okoume. 4. Then began coating mahogany, okoume, and ash with Interlux Clipper Clear Varnish 95. This is a one part polyurethane varnish. I'm thinking maybe I should have used regular spar varnish. The 95 is very glossy and more desrving of a fine job than what I want to put into it. Someone else mentioned somewhere that even though it is wear resistant, that means that sand and rocks scratch it, and it takes that much longer to refinish and sand in between coats. It looks real nice though. My ten year old daughter was looking at the pieces I did and exclaimed "that can't be the one your doing it looks to good". I did not (Except for one test piece) epoxy ash stringers or gunwales. I was afraid that epoxy was not as flexible as polyurethane varnish. The sealer can said to make sure that plywood ends were completly sealed because a thick coating of epoxy can crack. Instead of using say 2 coats of epoxy and 2 coats of varnish I thought I would be better off with 2 -3 coats of varnish here. I was also afraid that the epoxy thickness would really affect the way the wood fits into the aluminum channel I'm using. I don't know if this is correct or not. Any opinions anyone? 5. I haven't finished details (brass pieces, wood reinforcemnt) on all my cross frames, because like I suspected the thickness of the varnish now makes the one cross frame I completely finished a really tight fit, so I'll resand where it wedges between the bottom and be careful on the other pieces. 6. I only have a maximum of two coats of varnish on at this point. I suppose I should get a finer grit of sand paper, say 320 before the last coat. I'm planning to do up to four coats on the plywood. Good luck, Paul >I have Nautiraid kayak whose frame will need a new >varnish job done before next season. I am planning to >strip old varnish off, and put epoxy instead. Can >anyone tell me if this is a good idea? If not, what >can I use to restore the frame of my kayak? > >Pawel Palkiewicz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 9/24/00 11:13:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ppalkiewicz_at_yahoo.com writes: << Greetings, I have Nautiraid kayak whose frame will need a new varnish job done before next season. I am planning to strip old varnish off, and put epoxy instead. Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea? If not, what can I use to restore the frame of my kayak? Pawel Palkiewicz >> Hi, Pawel! Here's a couple of pennies worth of my experience in keeping a folding boat frame alive for about 30 years: 1 - I abuse the boat. 2 - I store it outside for prolonged periods of time assembled (i.e., the boat experiences the full range of heat/cold and dry/wet cycles regularly). 3 - Folding boat frames are subject to a certain amount of chafing, both in regular on-water use and certainly during assembly and disassembly AND transport in its bag(s). 4 - Chafing wears down the best of finishes with time and too often in places where you do not notice. 5 - Epoxy does NOT penetrate wood very well. It creates a strong, durable (non-UV resistant) envelope only. 6 - Epoxy is great at keeping water out, but it is just as good at keeping water in. 7 - At any point where the envelope is not perfect, water will enter the wood and migrate via capillary action along the grain. 8 - Water tends to leave the wood by that same route much more slowly than it entered, i.e., the epoxy wood dries significantly more slowly than it got wet in the first place. 9 - Water in the wood heated (by the sun for example) under such an effective barrier layer as epoxy, will exert considerable pressure and lift the latter off the wood. Eventually the barrier will give way ... not usually obvious to the naked eye unfortunately. See point -7- above. 10 - And all this has led me to stick with boiled linseed oil as a base and old fashioned spar varnish as a finish. The latter I use every few years (sometimes as many as ten between), the former at least once a season on suspect areas. The finish on my frame is not factory fresh, but its integrity is unimpaired. You may also want to check out very practical publications like Wooden Boat and Boatbuilder magazine. I have extensive experience with an epoxy coated tortured plywood kayak where the water migration problem is greatly reduced because of the structure of plywood. However, even in that application immense care must be taken to seal the "end-grain". Good luck! Best regards, Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:17 PDT