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From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:19:35 -0400
I saw something at lunch today that I had to chuckle over, so just for fun,
:-)   I thought I'd stir up the almost dead PFD saga  (it's like "saving the
life" of a topic).  I checked the "Canoe & Kayak" Editorial Submissions
Guidelines (available for all to see on their Web Site), and verified that,
under Photo Submissions, it says "... and do not use images that show a lack
of commen sense, lack of knowledge about paddlesports, or disregard for
safety or the Enviornment.  People are usually wearing life preservers in
photos we select....".

An advertisement caught my eye at lunch today.  Don't recall the
manufacturer, but it's a 3-Person sit-on-top, with a photo of 3 kayakers in
one on the water and NONE of them wearing a PFD.  Advertising dollars sure
speak volumes!!!!   There's also a photo of a WW kayaker standing up on a
run (at least that's what it looked like to me)!?!?   Would someone help me
understand "commen sense", please?  

Anyway, I care, so I had to share......and stir, and stir, and stir.....then
stir just a tad more

Rick

PS - Come to think of it, I didn't see a PFD on Ernie in the Photo Contest
section either!!!!!!  What kind of example is that for the next generation
of paddlers? "Canoe & Kayak" editors apparently don't participate in
Paddlewise discussions! (except for Ralph).

Note:  If you don't read the magazine, there was a photo of Ernie from
Seasame Street's Bert and Ernie characters, with Ernie in a scaled to fit
boat, on some water, sans PFD.

 

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From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:38:21 -0400
Rick Sylvia wrote:
> 
> There's also a photo of a WW kayaker standing up on a
> run (at least that's what it looked like to me)!?!?   Would someone help me
> understand "commen sense", please?

That was probably Jeff Snyder. He invented the sport in the picture,
called "Striding." There are better pix of him. Somewhere there's one of
him running, uh, striding, a major waterfall. He invented striding when
he had done all there was to do in squirt boats, which he also helped
invent.

> Note:  If you don't read the magazine, there was a photo of Ernie from
> Seasame Street's Bert and Ernie characters, with Ernie in a scaled to fit
> boat, on some water, sans PFD.

It looked like a freestyle canoe to me. FS canoe competitors are
exempted from wearing PFDs during competition, as they muss up the
costumes.

Steve (so many more toys than just sea kayaks)

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From: <Strosaker_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:44:54 EDT
Paddlewisers,

I just want everyone to know that this Southern California sea kayaker who 
also surf kayaks always wears of PFD and helmet in the surf.  Other paddlers 
in the surf can do whatever they want, but I just feel better having this 
safety gear on.  On my one and only swim, which was in 8 foot surf, I was 
glad to have the PFD on.

Scott, who doesn't always wear a PFD, is a friend of mine, and we 
occasionally paddle together.  I think that like me, his tone is sometimes 
misinterpreted on this list.  I don't believe he means any harm to anyone.  
He just has fervor for the PFD issue and enjoys an occasional hot debate.

Duane
So Cal

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From: <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 06:38:19 EDT
In a message dated 9/7/00 6:17:07 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Strosaker_at_aol.com 
writes:

<<  I think that like me, his tone is sometimes 
 misinterpreted on this list. >>

  Mr. Duane, always the voice of reason.

  Bruce McC
  WEO
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From: 735769 <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:57:25 -0400
I never realized how dangerous paddling was until I started paddling sea
kayaks and reading Paddlewise.

You can tell how dangerous it is because people always (almost)  wear life
jackets, have boats festooned with paddle floats, sponsons, Back-Ups, rescue
lines, throw bags, whistles, paddle tethers, GPS's, fog horns, flares, and
knives to cut their way free from all that stuff if they capsize. That ain't
enough either. Kayakers practice rolls in cold and hot water until their
sinuses cry out in pain. A dangerous sport? You bet.

Makes you wonder how the Inuit survived as a race. They didn't have this
stuff ( many still don't use it)  and they had to go hunting in their boats
that weren't even made of Kevlar or Polyethylene and didn't have bulkheads
or flotation much less SAR. You would think the whole damned lot of "stupid"
"idiots" would have slowly drowned away to extinction leaving the women
ashore to make out as best they could with European whalers who also didn't
have these things but did have boats big enough to walk around on (when they
weren't sailing around the Pacific in open rowboats like Captain Bligh -
also a "stupid" "idiot".

Just suppose Moses hadn't had on his life jacket. Where would be without the
Ten Commandments to tell us what bad buggers we are. He wasn't wearing one?
Oh. Stupid, idiot mother.

Of course, we know better now.

A lot of people don't understand the danger of a sea kayak. They see people
swimming without life jackets and assume they don't need one if they are
paddling around in  large buoyant body. They don't realize that sea kayaks
are the problem. I have seen swimmers swimming along beside sea kayaks and
the dumb ass swimmers don't know how close to drowning they are. If the
kayaker decided to rescue them and got them on the kayak they would be up
the creek without a life jacket and prime candidates for drowning unless
they jumped off to go swimming again.

Surfers are a smarter bunch. They see a sea kayak in the surf and they chase
them  away. They know that, if by some chance they end up on or in one they
will be put in danger since the won't have life jacket.

I went to a kayak symposium in a large indoor swimming pool. They knew all
about the dangers of kayaks. They chased the life jacketless children out of
the pool and made the kayakers wear lifejackets. A little boy asked me,
"Don't they know how to swim?" I told him they did but it was the kayak that
was dangerous. If they were swimming they would not need the lifejackets. He
nodded but clearly did not understand the logic. You just can't tell kids
some things.

I saw this guy standing in his kayak once fly casting and he didn't have on
a life jacket. I told him to put on his life jacket and he laughed, stepped
off his boat and walked over to tell me where to shove my lifejacket and
walked back. OK, the water was only a foot or so deep but a rule is a rule.
I guess you just can't reason with some people when you tell them to "always
wear your life jacket".

The real puzzle to me is that anyone would participate in such a dangerous
sport. If you want to avoid drowning stay away from the water, dummy. People
drown in bathtubs, swimming pools, glasses of water, in their sorrows. OK,
maybe a life jacket won't keep you from drowning in your sorrows but you
might not get hurt so badly when you jump. "Let him jump, Danno. he has on
his lifejacket."

Wait! Could it be that everyone has a level of risk that they find comfy?
Maybe sea kayakers paddle sea kayaks because they enjoy a little risk.
Possible?  Is this why sea kayakers draped in safety gear aren't "stupid" or
"idiots" and are just daring adventurers?

Could it be that some people might even want more risk? Could it be that
just like we don't want a universal standard of instruction we don't really
want a universal standard of safety? Or maybe we do want a universal
standard of safety and we should get a person suffering severe aquaphobia to
create it.  NO? Maybe such a person would insist that you not paddle a kayak
at all because it was "dangerous" and people who do are "stupid" and
"idiots".

Hold that thought. Just writing about this has got me all scared and
rattled. I think I will put on my lifejacket, drive out to the desert, sit
in my kayak and get my head straight. Never know when a flash flood will pop
up.


All Smiles and Chuckles.

John Winters







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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Winters:

> 
> I never realized how dangerous paddling was until I started paddling sea
> kayaks and reading Paddlewise.


Aw, c'mon, John.  Be fair.  This debate was taking place *long* before
PaddleWise :-)

Thanks for a very humorous break in this never-ending dialogue :-)

Cheers,

Jackie


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From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:36:25 -0400
735769 wrote:
> 
> I never realized how dangerous paddling was until I started paddling sea
> kayaks and reading Paddlewise.
> 
To paraphrase Woody Allen...

"Is kayaking dangerous?"
"Only if you do it right."

Steve
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From: SRI <sailboatrestorations_at_worldnet.att.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:55:43 -0000
I laughed out loud at least three times.  Thanks.
Mark

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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:23:31 -0400
From: "735769" <735769_at_ican.net>

> I never realized how dangerous paddling was until I started paddling sea
> kayaks and reading Paddlewise.
> 
> Makes you wonder how the Inuit survived as a race. They didn't have this
> stuff ( many still don't use it)  and they had to go hunting in their boats
> that weren't even made of Kevlar or Polyethylene and didn't have bulkheads
> or flotation much less SAR. You would think the whole damned lot of "stupid"
> "idiots" would have slowly drowned away to extinction leaving the women
> ashore to make out as best they could with European whalers who also didn't
> have these things but did have boats big enough to walk around on (when they
> weren't sailing around the Pacific in open rowboats like Captain Bligh -
> also a "stupid" "idiot".

A few points.  

1) Estimates I've seen were that anywhere from 30% to 50% of
   Inuit and Aleut kayakers died at sea.
2) They did use flotation aids (sp*ns*ns) made of seal skins,
   bladders etc.  In rough conditions they tied them to the
   sides of the kayaks.  In good conditions they tied them to 
   the harpoon lines.
3) They knew how to roll.
4) The Aleuts wore breathable, waterproof drytops.  (Not Gore-Tex,
   stinky whale intestines).

Mike

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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Safety and "Canoe & Kayak" Magazine
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 06:58:50 -0400
Michael wrote:
>
> 1) Estimates I've seen were that anywhere from 30% to 50% of
>    Inuit and Aleut kayakers died at sea.

All estimates based upon written records kept by the Inuit Society For
Safety at Sea.

> 2) They did use flotation aids (sp*ns*ns) made of seal skins,
>    bladders etc.  In rough conditions they tied them to the
>    sides of the kayaks.  In good conditions they tied them to
>    the harpoon lines.

The widespread use of sea condoms by the Inuit exists largely in the mind of
their promoter. On the other hand, you will find lots of references to the
use of primitive versions of Genuine Canadian Ballast Rocks (TM) to prevent
capsize.

> 3) They knew how to roll.

Actually rolling was not widespread and many groups never attempted rolls so
"They" should read "Some" . "He who lives by pedantry dies by pedantry".

> 4) The Aleuts wore breathable, waterproof drytops.  (Not Gore-Tex,
>    stinky whale intestines).

Yes, and we should legislate that all paddlers use them. Post the
announcement in the Greenpeace News group.

Smiles and Chuckles

John Winters

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