Rev. Bob wrote: >>Seems my orginal post on whales has resulted in considerable discussion on the ethics of observing whale and other wildlife.<< Though there have been subsequent posts regarding this, I would like to go off on a slightly more philosophical tangent for a moment, and Rev. Bob's words here provide a nice put-in spot... While it is certainly true that we humans represent the greatest danger to just about all other forms of life on this planet - bacterial, plant, animal, ourselves and each other, etc. - I also believe that much of this is caused by our tendency to artificially separate ourselves from "our environment", in addition to our over zealous exploitation of "natural resources" for our own convenience. Instead of dealing with the more direct cause of destruction to "our environment" (including "wildlife"), which might cause us a bit of inconvenience perhaps, we construct a veneer of "responsible rules and regulations" that, in the long run, do very little to mitigate the real problems we've created for "all that nature out there". I'm not saying that we don't need some enforcible guidelines, as obviously, many of us are just too stupid, careless, and selfish to employ common sense. Though it is as important for us to respect the lives of the non-humans as it is to respect other humans, if we really want to prevent injury and death to other species, we'd have to do much more than slap a few "responsible rules and regulations" on to our recreational activities... How many of us are ready and willing to give up our aesthetically hideous suburban sprawl that constantly encroaches on the natural habitat of creatures we end up killing because we feel threatened when they come [back] into our "neighborhoods"? Our massive factory farming, with all it's toxic waste seeping into the water table? Our dumping of toxic wastes into the sea? Our fossil fuel and all it's consequences to land, sea, and air? etc., etc... Rev. Bob's words again: >>"... the ethics of •observing• whale and other wildlife."...<< Until I remember where I parked my spaceship - or remember if I ever had one - I will consider myself to be a native creature of this planet - just like all that "wildlife" OUT THERE. Being a creature of this planet, I do feel that it's entirely possible to have perfectly "natural" interactions with another species. While I am very concerned that we "do no harm", and in addition to being careful to not cause bodily injury to our fellow creatures, I also believe in simply being polite to others - be they human or otherwise. And so... just as it would be impolite to chase after another human who didn't want to be bothered, or to pet them on the head if they didn't want us to, I offer that same respect to the "wildlife" I encounter. Of course, I now expect to hear a chorus of "anthropomorphism!" in regards to my perception that the whales I interact with might actually "enjoy" my company, and/or might even "want" me to interact with them to the extent that I do. Fine... but isn't that it's own form of anthropomorphism? To believe that you know better than I what "they" might want or not want (or need or not need?) - and to then call my perceptions anthropomorphism? The whale that comes up to me and gently nudges my elbow is not looking for food (as perhaps a bear in Yellowstone might be by approaching so close). The whale that swims alongside me for hours is not trying to avoid my "chasing" it. When I paddle along and I'm joined by eight whales and we go across the bay together, with them "playfully" swimming in intricate formations and variations around each other (more anthropomorphism?) am I really endangering their lives because they will "lose their fear of me"? I don't think so. If they approach another human, and are killed for their social behavior, it is the human who killed them who killed them - not my joyous interaction with them. It is the "scientific" and commercial whaling operations that kill them. It is the lack of food sources due to our toxic pollution of the sea that kills them. It is the blades of a propeller on a boat carelessly driven over the back of a whale in shallow water that kills them. etc., etc... ---------------- In a later post, Bruce McC wrote: >>I have no doubts that the previous posters mean no harm to the creatures that they encounter. Their passion for nature is evident. I would ask two questions. Did the creature benefit from the interaction? What would be the motivation for the contact? I see commercial tour leaders baiting monkeys on the Silver River and I see people feeding alligators everywhere, both are against the law. Are these actions for the benefit of the animal? Both actions will inevitably lead to the destruction of the animal. The monkey and alligator will both become more aggressive toward people and demand food. There is a crisis in Wilderness ethic, whether the wild be woods or whales makes no difference. We love our Wilderness to death. If the question is who will draw the lines with respect to use/abuse. The answer is the lines have been drawn.<< ---------------- As I've written just above, the whales I interact with are not looking for food - or at me as food - they are interacting with me entirely on a social level. While I entirely agree with the concept of not feeding "wildlife" our nutritionally deficient processed food - like with the bears in Yellowstone - perhaps we can look at WHY we end up killing them when they become "too comfortable" with us... They break into our cars to find food... (property damage, insurance premiums going up, scratches on the paint, etc.). "Can't have that - better kill the beast!" They become aggressive and "threaten" us for more food... "Can't have that either - better kill the beast!" So sure - on one hand, we do obviously stupid things, and as a result, we feel threatened, and then we kill. When you (Bruce) mention the concept of "use/abuse", I feel there's something missing... There is, in my opinion, something more to life than just use and abuse - the concept of living "in harmony" with one's surroundings - including with the other creatures we share this space with. An interaction between a human and another species is not necessarily an "unnatural" occurrence. And yes - I do further believe that it can be a joyous thing to be celebrated. ---------------- and later, Mark said: >>Reminds me of the debates about what kind of shoes we should use when hiking, to protect the dirt we walk on. Gimme a break. Mark<< ---------------- To completely change the subject, I'll mention a funny incident involving the mention of shoes... When Martha Graham (the dancer/choreographer) was still alive, a friend of mine was in her dance company. He had recently come here from Italy, and his English was still in the formative stages. He was having trouble with pain in his feet, and Martha asked him: "what kind of shoes do you wear?" and he replied: "Italian - aren't they supposed to be the best?" That's all for now... Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Tue Oct 24 2000 - 11:43:12 PDT
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:30:33 PDT