>> We've had a couple of canoe related fatalities this year here in the Twin Cities. The downtown chain of lakes is a very popular with rental canoeists. All the deaths I know of were drowning after a dunking while not wearing a PFD. -Patrick >> According to news reports, in one of these cases, a woman in a sea kayak tried to rescue the canoeist by first throwing him her PFD, and then extending her paddle to him, but the man drowned anyway. I don't know who the woman was, but one TV viewer reported she was paddling a stitch and glue kayak. It must have been traumatic watching a person die in front of her despite her best efforts. Rather than throw my PFD (was she wearing it?) or extend my paddle, which would almost certainly guarantee a capsize, I would have maneuvered my kayak so the rescuee could grab the bow and hang on. In this case, even that might not have worked; reportedly the victim was Spanish-speaking, he might not have been able to follow directions in English very well. How would other Paddlewisers have tried to rescue this victim? There was a similar capsize in just about the same spot a few weeks earlier, but in that case several members of our club (Inland Sea Kayakers) were nearby, and the result was much happier. I suspect one of the factors in the death in the first case was lack of experience in water, leading to panic. Recently, my wife and I took one of the doctors in her department out in a kayak for the first time. It was a windy, choppy day on the small lake we were on, and the doctor capsized when he turned to watch Linda roll. Fortunately, he had practiced man-overboard exercises in a sailing class, so he was comfortable in water. He remembered to follow Linda's instructions to pull the sprayskirt tab, exited cleanly, and, following my instructions, was able to climb back into the kayak after I emptied it in a T-rescue. He actually did much better without preliminary instruction than I have seen many people do in class. And he wants to kayak again! Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: > > >> > We've had a couple of canoe related fatalities this year here in the > Twin Cities. The downtown chain of lakes is a very popular with > rental canoeists. All the deaths I know of were drowning after a > dunking while not wearing a PFD. > > -Patrick > >> > > According to news reports, in one of these cases, a woman in a sea kayak > tried to rescue the canoeist by first throwing him her PFD, and then > extending her paddle to him, but the man drowned anyway. I don't know who > the woman was, but one TV viewer reported she was paddling a stitch and > glue kayak. It must have been traumatic watching a person die in front of > her despite her best efforts. > > Rather than throw my PFD (was she wearing it?) or extend my paddle, which > would almost certainly guarantee a capsize, I would have maneuvered my > kayak so the rescuee could grab the bow and hang on. In this case, even > that might not have worked; reportedly the victim was Spanish-speaking, he > might not have been able to follow directions in English very well. How > would other Paddlewisers have tried to rescue this victim? Offer your bow. You could use hand/arm gestures to convey the concept of hugging the bow and pointing to it. Make certain to smile, which is friendly and calming, and also to say "OK" and "Good", which are universally understood, when the person starts hanging on to the bow in a reasonably proper manner. BTW, don't use the word "bow" even with English speakers. You and I know what it is but lots of people don't. I got raked over the coals by some guy in a discussion group for using the term. I was using it among paddlers but I know well enough from places like The Downtown Boathouse with thousands of people pouring through that few can be counted on to know the term. Keep it simple...say "front." I agree that offering the end of a paddle is dangerous to you and actually may look lethal to the person in the water. Also its strange to throw a PFD unless the person is entangled in a strainer of some sort and you want to avoid getting snared yourself. But PFDs easily get blown along the surface of the water or are carried away by a current. A line on the PFD would help control that and allow several throw attempts. Remember, we had an extensive discussion on this listserve over a case that I mentioned about two guys falling into the water without PFDs and not knowing how to swim. I don't know if it got archived. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph wrote --- <BTW, don't use the word "bow" even with English speakers. You and I know what it is but lots of people don't. ..... Keep it simple...say "front".> In the Navy, we called it the pointy end. At least that's what we aviators called it, usually to upset the "surface warfare" types who still liked to refer to that bit as the bow. But, in our case, "pointy end" is risky, too. <Also its strange to throw a PFD unless the person is entangled in a strainer of some sort and you want to avoid getting snared yourself. ..... A line on the PFD would help control that and allow several throw attempts.> I'm going to help, Chuck, but, like Ralph, I'm not going to throw my PFD. It's more important to me than it is to "us" --- the rescuee and me. I'm his ticket out of there, and I'm keeping my PFD, rescue equipment and all. If you put your bow in his face, my guess is that the victim is going to see something bouyant in front of him and grab without waiting a second. (I've even seen that reaction during mega-swim supports with competitive swimmers in a near-panic state --- they'll hang on to the bow!) The risk is that they'll think they can climb aboard. Which is when you want that lethal paddle tip coming at them. How many of us, I wonder, routinely carry a solid foam paddle float rigged on deck for quick use in a case like this? I don't always, but usually will have it under the aft deck bungies. If it's tethered by a line --- or if the thrown PFD had been tethered --- is the line long enough for safe distance from the victim and the danger area, and how many of us have a quick release cam lock on the foredeck so that we can drag someone away from or out of a strainer? Or an integrated tow line or contact tow in our PFDs? And have we practiced using it? Just some thoughts, following up on Chuck's report and Ralph's response. Jack Martin --- just finishing his homework for his first class at UM, wishing he were at the DelMarVa Paddlers' Retreat instead ... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > I'm going to help, Chuck, but, like Ralph, I'm not going to throw my PFD. It's more important to me than it is to "us" --- the rescuee and me. I'm his ticket out of there, and I'm keeping my PFD, rescue equipment and all. < I realize what I said might be misconstrued (not by Jack). I would never give up my PFD. My thought was an extra PFD, the way we are carrying in swim supports. > > How many of us, I wonder, routinely carry a solid foam paddle float rigged on deck for quick use in a case like this? I don't always, but usually will have it under the aft deck bungies. If it's tethered by a line --- or if the thrown PFD had been tethered --- is the line long enough for safe distance from the victim and the danger area, < It is amazing how any such flotation (paddle float, spare PFD, etc.) can be whisked away by the wind, even a light breeze. One solution I saw someone do or play with on one of our swim supports. He blow up a paddle float and attached to it a pint size bottle of water. That bottle served as ballast or a sea anchor for the float. Winds were blowing at around 20 knots and the paddle float hardly moved on the water. This weight would also give some heft for throwing the flotation; he could give it quite a toss. With wind, it is almost impossible to toss something light and airy like a paddlefloat (even a rigid block one) without the wind drawing it astray or limiting the range of the throw. Of course, we don't go around with our paddle float inflated and with a pint bottle tied to it. But in a swim support, if you didn't have a spare PFD or a rescue torpedo (like in Bay Watch Hawaii...yeah, I know it is hard to concentrate on the gear while watching the babes and hunks and their superb form (swimming that is)) you could set up your paddle float in this way. > > Just some thoughts, following up on Chuck's report and Ralph's response. > > Jack Martin --- just finishing his homework for his first class at UM, wishing he were at the DelMarVa Paddlers' Retreat instead ... < poor baby. :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<< Rather than throw my PFD (was she wearing it?) or extend my paddle, which would almost certainly guarantee a capsize, I would have maneuvered my kayak so the rescuee could grab the bow and hang on. In this case, even that might not have worked; reportedly the victim was Spanish-speaking, he might not have been able to follow directions in English very well. How would other Paddlewisers have tried to rescue this victim? >> While you folks all sat around and analyzed the situation, I think I would probably just paddle up to the person and offer up my boat. If the person in the water were unable to grab hold for whatever reason then I would try to approach sideways so I could grab a hold of the person. I believe I could keep my boat upright in the ensuing chaos. If not, then I would end up in the water with the victim, and I would continue the rescue from there. If the person went under, I would most likely exit my boat anyway in an attempt to dive under and find them. I am a water person. I am quite capable of taking care of myself in or out of my boat. And whatever happened I think would be preferable to going through life thinking I could've done something, but didn't try. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott from So Cal suggests he's willing to paddle right up to, and/or leave his boat to assist a person who is drowning or in a panic state, confident that he can handle himself in this sort of situation. And he'd be entitled to offer his life in such a fashion. Most trained professionals take a slightly different read on these events. Not all, mind you, but most. And those who are not trained, or who were trained once but have gone more than a season w/o rectification or training would be foolish to assume their abilities so rashly. The second rule of any rescue is to not create any additional victims. The third rule of rendering aid or rescue is to secure the current victim from any additional harm. The first rule is to assess the environment, contributing conditions, and current status and threats to both the victim and those who are potential 'rescuers'. You'd be surprised at how often people who can't swim well are quick to jump into the water to 'save' someone who is floundering and is a better swimmer. There are a number of cases where the rescuer drowns and the victim makes it out. In the mountains while rendering aid to climbing accident victims, people can and have been killed or injured by subsequent rock fall and debris slide because they were so focused on the acute needs of the victim(s) that they didn't first note the acute threat posed by the immediate environment. The water is a much more dynamic and potentially threatening environment for the rescuer. Conditions can go from hectic, to panic, to deadly very quickly. It's great that you are comfortable in the water. So am I. So are a lot of people on this list. But people's comfort isn't quite the point here. We train and rehearse and train again. We also discuss these hypothetical situations. People train, re-train, and train again so that they are ready and able to render aid and rescue that is aimed at helping the victim while maintaining the safety of others involved. Professionals don't 'stand around' wringing their hands or arguing moot points while someone is drowning, Scott. -Will *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Chuck Holst" <cholst_at_bitstream.net> > panic. Recently, my wife and I took one of the doctors in her department > out in a kayak for the first time. [...] He actually did much better > without preliminary instruction than I have seen many people do in class. I read an article years ago on windsurfing and the instructor being interviewed said that doctors make the best students. They are trained to do what they are told, exactly the way they are told every time they do it. If they're in the mood to be students, they listen intently and can repeat what you instruct very well the first time. He also said that engineers make the worst students. First you have to explain what you want them to do, then explain _why_ you want them to do it that way and then they spend time trying to improve on the method. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Experience, paddling in the "Dilbert Zone"! At 04:50 PM 10/7/2000 -0400, Michael Daly wrote: >He also said that engineers make the worst students. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<< Scott from So Cal suggests he's willing to paddle right up to, and/or leave his boat to assist a person who is drowning or in a panic state, confident that he can handle himself in this sort of situation. And he'd be entitled to offer his life in such a fashion.>> First of all, I really don't believe that I would be offering up my life. Apparently you see it that way, but I sure don't. Of course I've heard all the stories of panicked swimmers. Heck, my father was a Newport Beach lifeguard once upon a time so I was pretty much raised on the stuff. I grew up on the beaches of Southern California and have been involved in a rescue or two myself. I've been through the training countless times, but not in a number of years. Maybe I'm naive in thinking I could handle the situation. <<Most trained professionals take a slightly different read on these events. Not all, mind you, but most. And those who are not trained, or who were trained once but have gone more than a season w/o rectification or training would be foolish to assume their abilities so rashly. >> Hmmmm. Makes me wonder about the trained professionals. It cracks me up that the people on this list are so obsessed with safety issues. Heck, we've learned that dry suits are far better then wet suits and you'd be a fool to ever paddle without one. Pfd's of course MUST be worn at all times regardless of the situation. We practice our rescue skills until we are blue in the face and do rolls until it can be considered "bomb proof!" And as if that wasn't enough we then have to over burden our poor little boats with every conceivable piece of safety equipment known to man. And with all of this preparation we then come across a distressed swimmer and sit there and watch them drown because we deem the situation to be too dangerous to approach since there just might be a possibility that the person in the water could capsize us in which event we might, oh heaven forbid, get wet!!!!!! Whatever. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm with ya, Scott. I actually believe that some of the "safety advocates" on this list, particularly ones with high profiles, are going to affirmatively hurt the sport, by being so much in favor of "safety" that -- whether they intend to or not -- they (or their statements) will support additional regulations, etc., even to the point of rendering the sport as we know it practically impossible. For some people, having *fun* is just not what *anything* is about. Mark > Hmmmm. Makes me wonder about the trained professionals. It cracks me up > that the people on this list are so obsessed with safety issues. Heck, we've > learned that dry suits are far better then wet suits and you'd be a fool to > ever paddle without one. Pfd's of course MUST be worn at all times regardless > of the situation. We practice our rescue skills until we are blue in the face > and do rolls until it can be considered "bomb proof!" And as if that wasn't > enough we then have to over burden our poor little boats with every > conceivable piece of safety equipment known to man. And with all of this > preparation we then come across a distressed swimmer and sit there and watch > them drown because we deem the situation to be too dangerous to approach > since there just might be a possibility that the person in the water could > capsize us in which event we might, oh heaven forbid, get wet!!!!!! Whatever. > > Scott > So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, I have to agree with Scott about some people making a rescue of a swimmer a lot more difficult than it should be. I was kayak surfing at San Onofre State Beach last summer, and a Japanese tourist was swimming in a rip current and yelling for help in his strong accent. As my buddy and I were paddling in, we saw and heard him. My buddy thought he was joking, but as I paddled up to him, I saw he looked scared and tired. He grabbed a hold of my kayak and rested for a moment. Then I told him to hold onto the rear grab loop. He did as I said and I towed him in. It was no big deal at all. I would have no hesitation about approaching a distressed swimmer in a kayak. I would even feel morally obligated to help. Of course, with my bracing skills, I also think it would be tough for a swimmer to accidentally tip me over. Twice this spring I had a sea lion jump up and rest on the deck of my kayak in the water. There is a picture of it at: <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/sbi.html">Santa Barbara Island </A> or http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/sbi.html Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I keep worrying one of our Stellar Sea Lions is going to try this. They are a little bigger than that baby sea lion in the picture :-). <Bill> Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Strosaker_at_aol.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rescuing a capsized canoeist > Twice this spring I had a sea lion jump up and rest on the deck of my > kayak in the water. There is a picture of it at: <A > HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/sbi.html">Santa Barbara Island > </A> or http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/sbi.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, I hope these sea kayakers who are hesitant to assist a drowning swimmer never volunteer to escort swimmers in a race. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Strosaker_at_aol.com writes: > Paddlewisers, > > I hope these sea kayakers who are hesitant to assist a drowning swimmer never > volunteer to escort swimmers in a race. Y'know - I don't think we're as polarized on this as its beginning to sound. I'll arbitrarily call the different views chum and potato, for those who would do anything to save a victim vs those who advise caution. If we continue the direction we're going we'll see the chums as the voice of reckless self sacrificing heroism and the potatos as heartless observers. I just don't see the debate this way. So far the potato stance has been that there are basic rescue protocols you can follow that will ensure the safety of the rescuer. If the rescuer is not safe, then its likely that the victim will not receive the aid they need. The chum viewpoint seems to be that rendering aid is not so complicated as its being made out to be. I agree that in numerous circumstances the choices will be easy. I also havn't heard anyone state that they would do absolutly anything regardless of personal safety in order to rescue a drowning victim. Contrarywise, I havn't heard any potatos state that they don't desire to help out as much as they could. The potato stance has been that its wise to know your own limitations. For the record - I'm a potato. I will hesitate in any emergency situation. My hesitation is to take in the scene and assess the degree of danger. Why is the person in the situation? Is it because thier boat smashed up in a rock garden or a rabid Sea Lion is out taking rides on kayaks? I think my degree of hesitation is relative though. If the situation is easily assessable, like Duanes rescue of the swimmer in the rip current, I feel I would be able to render aid fairly quickly. As a potato I'd like to be prepared to some degree for the situations I may find myself in. To that end, I usually carry a throw line behind my seat. There are numerous other ways and means of being prepared and discussing the possibilities is one of the things that makes this list so useful. Also for the record - I'm a chum. My instincts are to do what I can to render aid. Will I put myself at risk? - most certainly. The act of aiding anyone will put you at risk. My hope is that a degree of preperation will give me a framework to aid without harming myself or the person(s) I am attempting to rescue. I return you to your regularly scheduled debate, already in progress. Glen Acord - Eugene, OR W-EMT, Swiftwater Rescue Tech I Neckie Rip and a Mariner II (real soon now 8) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All: I have to agree with this post. I'm now a volunteer and have been a professional rescuer in the past, and I see this discussion polarizing us because of some ill-chosen words. I find it difficult, if not impossible, to believe that *anyone* on this list would stand by and, as has been put in an inflammatory manner "wring their hands" when presented with such an emergency, rather than take *some* sort of action to attempt to help. To imply so is to do a grave disservice to the readers of this list. I would like, as an academic exercise, for everyone reading this thread to think, honestly, about what they would do if someone were dying in front of them. Don't consider it from a standpoint of your office chair, or your warm-and-dry remove. Consider it as if you were in your boat, watching someone drown in front of you. Drowning is traumatic, and extremely unpleasant. It tends to cause panic, both in the victim and in observers. I would challenge any of you to clearly identify and rationalize your actions in the sort of immediacy that's presented by this situation. As a professional, I would like to *HOPE* that I would take appropriate steps, but I cannot in all honesty say that I would execute every single one flawlessly; I would probably try to do the best I could, as best I could, and do a lot of praying. The hardest lesson I ever learned as a rescuer was that of self-preservation; in all of the classes I've ever learnt from, based on texts that have endured literally decades of field testing, the primary rule is that you ensure scene safety *first*, because if you don't, you run a sizable risk of creating a second victim, yourself. If you die attempting to rescue someone, however noble the sentiment, there are still two dead people. If you, on the other hand, take the appropriate steps to ensure your own safety *at a minimum level*, your chances are much better of coming back with a live, very scared, very grateful victim. Again, please try to be moderate in your discussion; do you *really* think that anyone on this list would allow someone to die deliberately? If not, why say something that implies it? My $.02. Flame me directly if you feel you must. .ashton On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, B00jum! wrote: > Strosaker_at_aol.com writes: > > Paddlewisers, > > > > I hope these sea kayakers who are hesitant to assist a drowning swimmer never > > volunteer to escort swimmers in a race. > > Y'know - I don't think we're as polarized on this as its beginning to > sound. I'll arbitrarily call the different views chum and potato, for > those who would do anything to save a victim vs those who advise > caution. > > If we continue the direction we're going we'll see the chums as the > voice of reckless self sacrificing heroism and the potatos as > heartless observers. > > I just don't see the debate this way. So far the potato stance has > been that there are basic rescue protocols you can follow that will > ensure the safety of the rescuer. If the rescuer is not safe, then > its likely that the victim will not receive the aid they need. The > chum viewpoint seems to be that rendering aid is not so complicated as > its being made out to be. I agree that in numerous circumstances the > choices will be easy. I also havn't heard anyone state that they > would do absolutly anything regardless of personal safety in order to > rescue a drowning victim. Contrarywise, I havn't heard any potatos > state that they don't desire to help out as much as they could. The > potato stance has been that its wise to know your own limitations. > > For the record - I'm a potato. I will hesitate in any emergency > situation. My hesitation is to take in the scene and assess the > degree of danger. Why is the person in the situation? Is it because > thier boat smashed up in a rock garden or a rabid Sea Lion is out > taking rides on kayaks? I think my degree of hesitation is relative > though. If the situation is easily assessable, like Duanes rescue of > the swimmer in the rip current, I feel I would be able to render aid > fairly quickly. > > As a potato I'd like to be prepared to some degree for the situations > I may find myself in. To that end, I usually carry a throw line > behind my seat. There are numerous other ways and means of being > prepared and discussing the possibilities is one of the things that > makes this list so useful. > > Also for the record - I'm a chum. My instincts are to do what I can > to render aid. Will I put myself at risk? - most certainly. The act > of aiding anyone will put you at risk. My hope is that a degree of > preperation will give me a framework to aid without harming myself or > the person(s) I am attempting to rescue. > > I return you to your regularly scheduled debate, already in progress. > > Glen Acord - Eugene, OR > W-EMT, Swiftwater Rescue Tech I > Neckie Rip and a Mariner II (real soon now 8) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ah, but would you put yourself at risk to save a jet skiing attorney who had run out of fossil fuel? http://www.chroniclejournal.com/story.shtml?id=517 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Richard wrote; > Ah, but would you put yourself at risk to save a jet skiing attorney who had run > out of fossil fuel? Absolutely. Lawyers are much and unfairly maligned and we can never have too many of them. Can't let their preferences for watercraft influence us any more than we would let a person's political preference influence our actions. Cheers, John Winters Web site address http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, what was the outcome? Atty or not, I hope it had a happy ending, but doesn't sound like there would be much hope for that! BTW, even Atty's and Jet Skiers need saving! Value all life and act accordingly. Fred *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Fred T, CA Kayaker" wrote: > Well, what was the outcome? Atty or not, I hope it had a happy ending, but > doesn't sound like there would be much hope for that! > BTW, even Atty's and Jet Skiers need saving! Value all life and act > accordingly. Been a week, so she is assumed to be dead. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One item that I've seen at some of the NPS accesses on the Upper Delaware W&S consists of two 1 gallon jugs each maybe 1/3 full of water, tied together by about 3 feet of rope. Can be easily tossed yet remain buoyant enough.... >It is amazing how any such flotation (paddle float, spare PFD, etc.) can >be whisked away by the wind, even a light breeze. One solution I saw >someone do or play with on one of our swim supports. He blow up a >paddle float and attached to it a pint size bottle of water. That >bottle served as ballast or a sea anchor for the float. Winds were >blowing at around 20 knots and the paddle float hardly moved on the >water. This weight would also give some heft for throwing the >flotation; he could give it quite a toss. With wind, it is almost >impossible to toss something light and airy like a paddlefloat (even a >rigid block one) without the wind drawing it astray or limiting the >range of the throw. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here is a part of story I reported in Sea Kayaker (and "Sea Kayaker's Deep Trouble") that seems relevant to this discussion: Realizing that the frightened swimmer could easily capsize him, Gord stayed ten feet away and told him (Norm) how vulnerable he was in the kayak and if he didn't do exactly like he was told they would probably both die. Norm said he understood and Gord let him grab onto his bow loop. Gord realized later that he should have just given him some flotation to hang onto, such as his homemade paddle float/self-rescue kit device. Gord blew up his sea seat (a large square air pillow that can be used like an innertube) and described how to climb on to it. Norm grabbed it but wouldn't let go of the kayak to get on the sea seat. Norm kept trying to climb up on the bow of Gord's Seafarer to get on the sea seat. This threatened to capsize Gord and twice he had to push Norm off with his paddle and warn him not to do it again. The sea seat blew away in the light breeze so dragging Norm on the bow Gord chased after and barely caught it. Gord tied the line on it to himself and had Norm try again to get on. Norm was drunk, very heavy, and his legs were cramping up. He couldn't get up on the seat. Gord began to tow Norm and the sea seat towards shore. Norm pulled himself forward on the line without Gord realizing it. He was half way up on the back deck! Gord feared he would be tipped so he shoved Norm off with his paddle and yelled at him that he would leave him if he didn't cooperate. That controlled him. Gord paddled at maximum effort for 20 minutes before getting near shore. But the shore was cliffy except at his camp so he had to struggle along just offshore for another few minutes before finding the campsite. Norm lay in the water. He couldn't get himself out because he was drunk, hypothermic, and his legs were cramped. Gord dragged him ashore and helped him into camp. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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