Re: [Paddlewise] Ellesmere (was: the never ending stability thread)

ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>Melissa Reese wrote:
>
> Hi Joan,
>
> There's a review of the Ellesmere in the Feb. 2000 Sea Kayaker, and
> there, you can see the "inverse" chines.  It's an interesting looking
> chine arrangement.  It has a second, "upper chine" that curves down
> at either end.  It also has a rounded hull instead of a shallow V.  I
> haven't paddled one yet, but I'm very interested in trying it.  I
> have no idea of the "notchiness factor" of this boaty.

In a sense, the chines on all folding kayaks are "inverse."  All folding
kayaks, by definition, are hard-chined because of their use of
longitudinal stringers running the length of the boats.<<<<SNIP>

This is not what Boreal means. They essentially took a more rounded hull and
cut flat slabs off each side. Ralph is talking about the inversion between
the stringers (longerons?) due to water pressure on a folding kayak. Totally
different thing.
I paddled an Ellsmere both at the 1999 West Coast Symposium two years ago
and again later at my shop. It is not notchy due to the chine or any other
(more likely) reasons. I thought it was a sporty fun kayak that turned well
with a lean and was relatively easy to lean but not tippy. Good secondary
stability too:-) My notes say I could spin 360 degrees in 23 sec. leaned (to
the outside) and in 27 seconds with the hull level. I could turn 180 degrees
(at speed while leaned out to the risk point) in 11 sec. and the 180 turn
took 18 seconds if I didn't lean at all (a measure of tracking stiffness).
Averages of 305 N.Amer. kayaks I tested are 11 seconds for the 180 degree
leaned turn and 20 sec. for the 180 if level (259 kayaks for this
average)(Note: the averages include a lot of short recreational kayaks which
skews the averages down a little--the average N. A. made kayak (of 864 which
I have lengths on) is 14 foot 10.5 inches long and 24.9" wide and the
Ellsemere is 17-0 long.   The Ellesmere took me 24 sec. with the skeg down
full to spin a 360 with a lean, 30 sec. level, 26 sec. 180 leaned turn
w/skeg max. down, and 66 sec. with max. skeg if held level). Without the
skeg down the kayak had a strong weatherhelm which the skeg corrected. The
shaped skeg hummed when down. Something I've noticed with a lot of shaped
skegs but not with flat skegs (which unfortunately create more drag). Sea
Kayaker tested it in their Feb. 2000 issue. This review is not on their
website, I checked. I just read the review on paper and while I didn't test
the Ellesmere in waves or surf and I didn't roll it I agreed with the
testers on all the other points so I suspect I would agree with them on
those as well. I too barked my knuckles on the skeg adjustment cleat, hope
they have moved it to a better location (or better still changed the whole
skeg arrangement) by now.


Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com



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