Nick wrote: >>>>>I don't see how the analogy of a ball flying through the air is a good analogy for stability. A ball is free to fly so the shape of the ramp may not effect it's travel, but a boat must stick to it's curve.<<<<< As I said beforehand, there are difficulties with the ball bearing/ramp (attempted) "analogy". What I was trying to model was how the stability curve on the backside drops away more with each increase in angle of lean so it provides no feeling of security (the "stiffness is negative) in that area. It will not stop a capsize in progress. John kept claiming the backside was important to the secondary/overall stability (which he thought were comparable and I didn't) and I was trying to get him to see why it wasn't. I hope Nick's explanation was more convincing than mine. I think that only the highest parts of the backside of the curve could be a help and then only because we can bend at the waist and move our center of gravity to one side (creating a new stability curve that would have some relation to the fixed paddler stability curve because some of the backside of the original fixed paddler curve would, as a result of the weight shift, now be on the frontside of the new curve). The point I was trying to get across was that it makes little difference to the paddler what the shape of the backside of the curve looks like. If you go there with any momentum you are not going to be righted again unless you brace somehow. If you look at the shapes of the three curves in the XL review it should be obvious that it would be in my best interest to argue the exact opposite of the way I am now. The final capsize point on the XL was at a greater angle of lean than nearly all the other kayaks tested. Years ago I thought that the capsize point was important and that the backside had something to do with secondary stability but newer evidence has changed my opinion. I think Nick's explanation (if it can be made more understandable to the non-technical among us) is a good one that fits with what a kayaker senses. Maybe we can call it "Kayaker's secondary stability". Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/17/00 5:50:49 PM, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes: << I think we need data to test Nick's suggestion, though the debate has been interesting. We might also find that the data show us nature has whacked us upside our heads with the "real" answer while we were trying to test the one we thought was correct >> What Dave said! John, come one. Give! Joan Spinner in a boat that has VERY little chine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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