PaddleWise by thread

From: <RWMCT_at_aol.com>
subject: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:43:41 EST
Reading the "chine posts" makes me ask, "Am I nuts???" My Arctic Hawk has 
chines anyone would call "hard", and it has a ton of secondary stability.  I 
always thought the combinatin of hard chines and flare was a recipe for 
secondary stability.  I also  thought the whole point to soft chines was less 
initial and secondary stability so that it is easier to push through the 
rough stuff and that both types of stability came from resistance.  
     rwmct, who is a little confused by all of this.  

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: 735769 <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 08:23:15 -0500
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 07:15:07 -0800 (PST)
RWMCT wrote:


> Reading the "chine posts" makes me ask, "Am I nuts???" My Arctic Hawk has
> chines anyone would call "hard", and it has a ton of secondary stability.
I
> always thought the combinatin of hard chines and flare was a recipe for
> secondary stability.  I also  thought the whole point to soft chines was
less
> initial and secondary stability so that it is easier to push through the
> rough stuff and that both types of stability came from resistance.

This discussion resulted from just this belief which, unfortunately doesn't
apply in all cases. As some have tried explain (possibly not as clearly as
we could)  chines do not "make the boat" and that one can duplicate the
characteristics of both types (chined and round bilge) with the other type.
Most paddlers experience a sensation and try to associate to with a single
design feature. If only boat design were so simple!!!

We must learn to treat boats as systems involving the complex interaction of
shape, paddler and environment.

Drawing conclusions about boats based upon one's experience with a limited
number of boats, hearsay, and superstition has similarities to the
stereotypes and prejudice we form about people. Hence dumb blonde jokes,
Newfie jokes, aggie jokes, racial prejudice  etc. etc. etc.

Cheers,

John Winters




***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Chines
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 09:33:03 -0500
I don't think there is a generalized "point" to hard or soft chines 
with regards to stability. If there is, there shouldn't be. You can 
not accurately say "This boat has X chines there for it's stability 
is Y." There is much more to stability than whether or not it has an 
give chine configuration.

Initial stability is dependant almost exclusively on waterline width. 
Two boats with the same waterline width and shape will have the same 
initial stability regardless of chine shape. Obviously, parameters 
such as seat height and other factors effecting the vertical center 
of gravity will also have an effect.

Secondary stability, no matter how it is defined, is effected by the 
distribution of volume in the cross-sectional shape. Chine type will 
only effect stability to the extent that it effects the distribution 
of volume. Is a boat with a 2" radius between the bottom and side 
"hard" or "soft" chined? I'm not sure, but it would not change the 
distribution of the volume much from a boat with a 1/4" radius at the 
chine.

I feel secondary stability tends to be effected the most by the 
distribution of volume above the waterline. Factors like flare and 
deck height tend to have more effect than chine shape.

Chine shape has become a convenient short hand for kayak marketers. 
It is like saying a boat is "Greenland" style. It doesn't mean much 
but evokes an useful image.
Nick


At 8:43 PM -0500 11/15/00, RWMCT_at_aol.com wrote:
>Reading the "chine posts" makes me ask, "Am I nuts???" My Arctic Hawk has
>chines anyone would call "hard", and it has a ton of secondary stability.  I
>always thought the combinatin of hard chines and flare was a recipe for
>secondary stability.  I also  thought the whole point to soft chines was less
>initial and secondary stability so that it is easier to push through the
>rough stuff and that both types of stability came from resistance. 
>      rwmct, who is a little confused by all of this. 
>
-- 


Nick Schade
Guillemot Kayaks
824 Thompson St, Suite I
Glastonbury, CT 06033
(860) 659-8847

Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/

>>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<<

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:19 PDT