My two cents on a couple of points. As to Ralphs "any smart lawyer" point, I disagree. I like to consider myself a halfway smart lawyer, but what one really needs in these cases (and is all too likely to find) is a dumb jury. As to the effects of different boats on group paddles, I have seen this also. However, I do not think length of boat is that important unless the paddlers in the larger boats are really steaming along. My wife's Tchaika can maintain a good pace, and I bet the new P&H Vela is at least as fast. On the other hand, I have had a hard time in my Arctic Hawk (no rudder or skeg) keeping up with a ruddered boat paddled hard in certain conditions. But I really think that paddler conditioning is the most important factor for keeping together. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>As to the effects of different boats on group paddles, I have seen this >also. However, I do not think length of boat is that important unless the >paddlers in the larger boats are really steaming along. What is "Really Steaming along?" What I'm really asking is what is average _cruising_ speed for most of you? I have clocked myself on my GPS many times and when I am paddling along at a comfortable pace I am usually doing about 3-3.5 mph. Is this slow, average, fast, or what? For me the fastest I can make my Tupperware SOT go is about 4-4.5 mph for a couple of minutes at a time. Lazy slow paddling with lots of looking around is about 2-2.5 mph. How does this compare? (For information, I'm paddling a Cobra Tourer which is 15 ft. long and 28" wide.) Fair winds and happy bytes, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net Go Sea Kayaking!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dictated on a Mac G4 Cube using MacSpeech iListen v.1.1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>However, I do not think length of boat is that important unless the > >paddlers in the larger boats are really steaming along. > > What is "Really Steaming along?" What I'm really asking is what is > average _cruising_ speed for most of you? I have clocked myself on my > GPS many times and when I am paddling along at a comfortable pace I am > usually doing about 3-3.5 mph I typically paddle an 8 nautical mile course, either in my Solstice GTS (17'7" by 22") or in my Mariner Express (16" by 23.5"). My average speed is between 4.0 and 4.25 knots. This is a comfortable pace for me in the sense that I could do it again at the same speed if I had a 10 minute rest but I am pleasantly tired at the end. I have carefully measured this course on a chart so I believe my speed is accurate. I don't find any difference in efficiency between my different length boats. The GTS is easier to push above 4.5 knots (for me that is steaming) but I cannot hold above 4.5 knots for 2 hours. I am 60, so I think that 3-3.5 mph is quite slow compared to what a good sea kayak is capable of allowing. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:01 PM 12/2/00 -0800, Gerald Foodman wrote: >> What is "Really Steaming along?" What I'm really asking is what is >> average _cruising_ speed for most of you? I have clocked myself on my >> GPS many times and when I am paddling along at a comfortable pace I am >> usually doing about 3-3.5 mph > >I typically paddle an 8 nautical mile course, either in my Solstice GTS >(17'7" by 22") or in my Mariner Express (16" by 23.5"). My average speed is >between 4.0 and 4.25 knots. This is a comfortable pace for me in the sense >that I could do it again at the same speed if I had a 10 minute rest but I >am pleasantly tired at the end. My average speed for all trips for the whole month of October is 3.6 MPH, over about 80 miles. This includes time spent looking at deer, stopping to talk with people, wishful thinking on distances, etc. From that, I infer that my normal average cruising speed must be somewhere around 4 MPH, so I'd define "really steaming along" as something over about 4.25 MPH. And, this includes training. My average speed for the month in March this year was 3.0 MPH, and in April 3.1 MPH. In September, I hit 3.9. It's interesting to see the effects of training, conditioning and practice take hold, and then deteriorate as the weather gets colder and I paddle less. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/2/00 7:37:54 AM, daflory_at_pacbell.net writes: << What is "Really Steaming along?" What I'm really asking is what is average _cruising_ speed for most of you? I have clocked myself on my GPS many times and when I am paddling along at a comfortable pace I am usually doing about 3-3.5 mph. Is this slow, average, fast, or what? >> Hi Dave, My handy dandy little knotmeter tells me that 4 to 4.25 knots is my average paddling pace. It's comfortable but not restful, more like a light exercise pace. I go 3-3.5 when I'm with slower paddlers but I find myself creeping back up to 4 to 4.25 when I'm not paying attention. I think it has a lot to do with the particular boat that someone might have. Mine seems to like the 4+ knot range. Slower than that I really have to pay attention. Others in my club like to paddle even faster, like 5 knots. I can feel myself working pretty hard at 5 but I can maintain it for an hour or so before my form starts to go south. Speed seems to vary from day to day as well. Somedays the boat just doesn't want to move so I back off and let it find it's own pace. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd reports: My average speed for all trips for the whole month of October is 3.6 MPH, over about 80 miles. This includes time spent looking at deer, stopping to talk with people, wishful thinking on distances, etc. From that, I infer that my normal average cruising speed must be somewhere around 4 MPH, so I'd define "really steaming along" as something over about 4.25 MPH. And, this includes training. My average speed for the month in March this year was 3.0 MPH, and in April 3.1 MPH. In September, I hit 3.9. It's interesting to see the effects of training, conditioning and practice take hold, and then deteriorate as the weather gets colder and I paddle less. [end quote] It may not just be training. The viscosity of water at 25C (77F) is only half what it is at the freezing point. There's more drag in cold water. Wes, you may like to keep track of water temperatures, as well as elapsed times, for a year, and then plot either average speed or elapsed time vs. temperature or viscosity. Bruce Bruce Winterbon bwinterb_at_magma.ca http://magma.ca:80/~bwinterb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:54 PM 12/4/00 -0500, Bruce Winterbon wrote: >>And, this includes training. My average speed for the month in March this >>year was 3.0 MPH, and in April 3.1 MPH. In September, I hit 3.9. It's >>interesting to see the effects of training, conditioning and practice take >>hold, and then deteriorate as the weather gets colder and I paddle less. > >It may not just be training. The viscosity of water at 25C (77F) is only >half what it is at the freezing point. There's more drag in cold water. >Wes, you may like to keep track of water temperatures, as well as elapsed >times, for a year, and then plot either average speed or elapsed time vs. >temperature or viscosity. I dunno -- seems like that would have much less of a percentage basis than just the effects of being in shape vs. not having paddled for a while. I suspect that it would tend to get lost in other variables, if for no more reason than my "monthly average speed" includes a lot of different variables, and can be taken only as a generality. But then, I'm not a slide rule type like some on this list, and I could well be barking up the wrong tree. I agree, viscosity has something to do with it -- hitting ice chunks while out paddling Sunday certianly slowed me down! Unfortunately, that may well be the last time out for the winter -- the lakes iced up three to four weeks earlier than last year and are getting harder. Unless we get a prolonged warm spell, I'm now an "armchair kayaker" for a few months. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What's a slide rule :-)? <Bill> Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska. N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> To: "Bruce Winterbon" <bwinterb_at_mail.magma.ca>; <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Regarding boat speed and length of boat, etc. - was re. Intermediate paddlers > But then, I'm not a slide rule type like some on this list, and I could well be barking up the > wrong tree. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>What's a slide rule :-)? > It's one of those calculators that doesn't need batteries or even sunlight! Alternatively, it's the etiquette for downhill snow kayaking........ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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