PaddleWise by thread

From: <JSpinner_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rolling
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:48:28 EST
In a message dated 1/30/01 6:37:06 PM, kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org writes:

<< I think there is not much intrinsic difference between the Breeze and

Gulfstream -- they are both sea kayaks of roughly the same size, weight,

width, length, and shape.>> Well, I thought the same thing, the breeze is 
over 3 feet shorter, so that is basically why I didn't try her again. I was 
in the pool. Footpegs one notch shorter than normal paddling position, 
everything else the same. I can come up with no reason for the Breeze to just 
roll over and I have to work on the GS. I actually expected the opposite! 
<<If I were to guess which was harder to roll, I would say plastic because it 
is less stiff and weighs more.  More likely, the difference in apparent 
rollability lies in one of the following:

- outfitting: Does one boat fit you significantly better? Are the footpedals

similar in distance and support? Proper outfitting is crucial.

- seat height/cockpit depth: Do you sit deeper in one?

- psychological:. In rolling, this is often huge factor. >>
The primary difference is that I sit deeper in the GS than the Breeze, which 
should have the opposite effect! I have carved thigh braces in the GS and 
none in the Breeze. I just flop in the GS without them but the Breeze is 
solid. Am I thinking backwards and should be higher in the GS? I thought that 
would make rolling easier. I know rolling without a skirt is simple, as long 
as I'm patient and keep putting the boat under myself without giving up too 
soon. I can roll many times without stop with no skirt, just don't expect me 
to paddle very far <G>.
    If what you say is the case there is no reason not to keep using the 
Breeze for pool practice. OTOH, I know there is a difference so I must 
practice in the GS because I know I have a tendency to not work hard enough 
at the roll, I fail to follow through  past my hip when I need to. I want it 
to be easy without having put enough work into learning for it to be that 
easy.
    Oh well, I just have to work longer at this. Keep the comments coming. I 
might figure out what is going on if you do. Thanks a whole lot.

Joan


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rolling
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:59:26 -0500
I was interested in seeing Joan's and Jed's comments on the difficulty
of rolling a Gulfstream. I embarrassed myself this summer trying to roll
a GS in front of a batch of paying customers. Anne covered me by
smoothly going into a bow rescue demo, so I didn't look totally useless.
OTOH, I test paddled a 2000 Gulfstream last spring and it rolled OK. The
rep told me that the depth of the cockpit was one of the things CD
changed in the GS's current design. Huh? That would be Current Design's
Gulfstream's current design, I guess.

Anyhow, I would agree with Jed and Kevin: practice your roll in the
easier boat until it's effortless, then move it over to the harder boat.

-- 
Steve Cramer
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rolling
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:52:37 -0500
At 06:48 PM 1/30/01 -0500, JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 1/30/01 6:37:06 PM, kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org writes:
>
><< I think there is not much intrinsic difference between the Breeze and
>
>Gulfstream -- they are both sea kayaks of roughly the same size, weight,
>
>width, length, and shape.>> Well, I thought the same thing, the breeze is 
>over 3 feet shorter, so that is basically why I didn't try her again. I was 
>in the pool. Footpegs one notch shorter than normal paddling position, 
>everything else the same. I can come up with no reason for the Breeze to just 
>roll over and I have to work on the GS. I actually expected the opposite! 

I questioned the statement that the GS and Breeze are essentially 
the same size as well.  

My stats show the Breeze at 13'6" long, 25" wide, while the Gulfstream
is 16'10" long, 23 1/4" wide.

A couple of things that I don't recall being mentioned are what
kind of roll you're trying.  Is it a C to C?  Sweep?

Something you might try and pay attention to is when you tip over, how
long does each boat take to "settle" upside down.  When I have tried
rolling a Prijon Yukon expedition, for example, the large volume seems
to cause the boat to roll over a bit slower, than when I'm rolling
my Skerray or Northbay.  I found that if I think of slowing down
my roll back up, that I come up easier in the Yukon than if I try
a sharper hip snap.  It's a bit easier if I'm doing a sweep roll because
it's easier to control the timing.  

I assume that your setup and paddle position are probably the same
with both boats, but a slight adjustment in your timing might be
needed to roll the Gulfstream more reliably.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:20 PDT