I just happened to run across this information this weekend on the use of fiberglass in boats, which is relevant to some of the earlier postings: >From "Fiberglass Boat Design and Construction" by Robert J. Scott pub. John de Graf, Inc. Tuchahoe, New York 1973 ======================= "...The first fiberglass boats were introduced shortly after World War II as a result of research by both military and commercial interests. The boasts which evolved from these early efforts proved to be strong, light weight , water tight and easy to maintain. These advantages were instrumental in establishing the strong role which fiberglass played during the small boat "boom" in the 1950's and 1960's, and to its present position as the most popular material for building small boats." and "....among the first were a series of 28 foot US Navy personnel boats. Since then, the Navy has continued to rely heavily on FRP [Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic] for the construction of thousands of small boats from 12 feet to 50 feet in length including landing craft, utility and personnel boats, line handling boats and whaleboats. Perhaps the most famous Navy fiberglass boat is the 31 foot PBR River Patrol Boat, which has seen extensive service in Southeast Asia. "The US Coast Guard has employed FRP for the construction of a wide variety of utility and patrol boats up to 40 feet..... "...The first [pleasure boat] uses of FRP were in small runabouts and sailboats, with both the size and number increasing each year....The largest FRP yachts in series production are now about 85 feet. ...The highly competitive nature of the pleasure boat industry has resulted in numerous design and production innovations to improve the performance and reduce the cost of fiberglass structures..." "The development of large fiberglass fishing trawlers began in 1960 in South Africa with the construction of a series of 63 foot long pilchard trawlers...[which lead to} parallel developments in the United States...The first such vessel was the 72 foot trawler...launched in Florida in 1968... "The development of FRP minesweepers was begun simultaneously by the US and British Navies in the early 1960's... ====================== So my casual observation that there were not any fiberglass pleasure boats prior to WWII, and the postings about the first fiberglass kayaks did not show up until about 1960(?) and no production fiberglass kayaks until the early 1970's is consistent with the above author's experience (he is an experienced navel architect with a masters in Marine Engineering and worked for Gibbs & Cox Inc of New York). So fiberglass manufacture of pleasure boats in not that old, compared most other traditional boat building materials. Also constant with this was my memories of a neighbor who built a skin on frame kayak in about 1967 using a fiberglass skin instead of the then more common canvas and paint. Then a friend of mine and I "found" an old skin on frame two hole kayak in a trash bin in about 1974 and rebuilt it. It had a broken wood frame, rotting and torn cotton skin, and represented way too much consistent for two high school kids looking for adventure to pass up. So we rode it home somehow on our bicycles, one holding each end, through the traffic, and set about rebuilding it. Since it seemed the rotting canvas had poor durability (we had no idea how old it was, but it looked old), fiberglass seemed the most modern skin we could put on it. So we scavenged materials, including someone's left over fiberglass cloth, bought what we could not find, rebuilt the frame and reskined it. It did not look like the real slick new molded kayaks just showing up at the time, but it was strong and held water, even if our handy work was somewhat unskilled and unattractive. So despite kayaks being ancient in origin, its modern history is not very old. I.e. there was only a few companies commercially making folding kayaks prior to WWII, and I do not think anyone one commercially manufacturing non-folding skin on frame kayaks in any large numbers ever. And commercially made molded fiberglass sea kayaks did not show up until about 1970(?). Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are sold today world wide? And how many folding kayaks? Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Chopelas" <pac_at_premier1.net> > So despite kayaks being ancient in origin, its modern history is not very > old. I.e. there was only a few companies commercially making folding > kayaks prior to WWII, and I do not think anyone one commercially > manufacturing non-folding skin on frame kayaks in any large numbers ever. > And commercially made molded fiberglass sea kayaks did not show up until > about 1970(?). There were a lot more than a "few" companies making folding kayaks commercially prior to WW II. I counted up their names and locations (most in Germany) from the Der Haderkahn book on the history of folding kayaks published in 1989. I recall that there were about 80 companies producing the boats prior to WWII. Obviously some were small but the large ones were quite massive in their yearly production turnout. Klepper was probably the largest and in many popular paddling spots often hundreds of foldables would be on the water at the same time on a good weekend. > > Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are > sold today world wide? And how many folding kayaks? I once had a reasonable handle on this in the early 1990s. Using a lot of extrapolation from knowledge I had of the production run of two of the largest hardshell companies and knowing the same, with more precision, for the folding kayak companies, I came up with some figure. I can't remember what that was and it would be inapplicable now since since then many more companies have been making plastic kayaks that previously only did fiberglass such as Wilderness Systems. Polyethylene really changed things in providing entry-level (as well as better boats) at a cheap price that has drawn an avalanche of interest and buyers. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter Chopelas wrote: >>>>>Does any have a guess how many commercially manufactured sea kayaks are sold today world wide? And how many folding kayaks?<<<<< No, but I could give you a minimum number for "ever was kayaks" rather than just those still sold today. Obviously, there are more that I don't know of yet. The number of one-person kayak builders I know of worldwide as of today is 689. These aren't all commercial builders but most of the non-commercial builders fall into the wood kayak subsection. The breakdown is 146 wood kayak builders (those with distinct designs--not just those building someone else's designs) with a total of 450 models among them, 131 skin on frame, folding, or wood/canvas kayak builders, building 510 models of singles (and doubles--this category only)(this isn't counting any of the true Eskimo designs--in museums--see David Zimmerley's website www.arctickayaks.com for 21 pages listing those), 222 North American builders of fiberglass and/or plastic kayaks (excluding whitewater, wave skis, competition kayaks and competition surf skis--but including recreational, rec. sit-on-top, touring, and sea kayaks) with 943 models. 190 builders of glass and plastic singles in 21 countries outside of North America building 737 (substantially different) named models. That's a total of 2640 models from 689 builders (including the double folding kayaks--I haven't yet separated them out into their own spreadsheet--I'd guess maybe 150 to 200 of those I listed in the fabric kayak category are doubles). Actually, because of the individual variations easily possible with most of the non-folding kayaks in the skin on frame category there are probably many more individual models unnamed that actually vary more than some of the plastic or glass kayaks with a new deck or hatch arrangement and a different name attached. The biggest listing of folding kayak companies and models is at http://www.faltbootkabinett.de/index.html. Some designers of their own personal kayaks or commercial kayaks posting on paddlewise are: PETER CHOPELAS:Peter A. Chopelas is one builder/designer with two skin kayaks so far. BPB-01 (10-4) (1st. predotype) Stretched Retrieval Kayak (10-4)(folding) COMPANY NAME UNKNOWN:Fernando López Arbarello Name unknown (?) 1991 (would you like to fill me in on the details Fernando?) DUANE STROSAKER:Duane Strosaker is another with his new wood kayak Prototype Sea/Surf kayak (14-0) ROBERT LIVINGSTON:Robert Livingston (all fiberglass) Excalibur (17-1) <1981 Ursa Minor (15-7)(first plug)1983 Ursa Minor (15-7) 1984 Ursa Micro (13-2) 1985 Ursa Major (16-5) 1986 Ursa 350 (?) 2001 (mold just completed, have you named it yet Robert? dimensions?) FERGUSON KAYAKS/SEALAND PUBLICATIONS:Alex "Sandy" Ferguson Seaward W (17-2.5)(W=wood plans) <1990 Coastal (?) <1985 Mac 50 (?) <1999 Mist (?)(tortured plywood) <1999 "T" Class (?) 2000 < in front of the year means "older than" There are several other kayak designer's contributing to paddlewise including Nick Schade, and John Winters Who have I missed? BTW, if you have designed a kayak (or know of someone who is designing or building kayaks locally but hasn't done any advertising nationally) I would be most interested in knowing about you (or them) and the kayaks. I collect the following data (when I can), Country of origin, Company name (year Co. founded, Co. address, phone & fax #'s, e-mail and website address), company owner's name, Single kayak model name, designer's name, year of first introduction (or oldest reference found), the kayaks length, width, volume, depth (inside cockpit front from bottom of the coaming to the inside of hull), inside length and width of the cockpit. On the 550 plus kayaks I have paddled I time how fast they can spin in place and turn at speed (both when level and leaned up to where water is not quite spilling into the cockpit if I don't have a spraydeck on--or as much as I dare given the outfitting if I can't safely lean that much). If I'm testing near my store I also time top speed in a short sprint over a fixed course. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Do you have any plans of making your database available online? At 8:04 PM -0800 2/20/01, Matt Broze wrote: >... >The number of one-person kayak builders I know of worldwide as of today is >689. These aren't all commercial builders but most of the non-commercial >builders fall into the wood kayak subsection.... -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Not at this time in any complete form, anyhow. Maybe when I retire. It has been a valuable tool in my business and I don't feel like handing my competitors 20 years and thousands of hours of my work for free. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Schade [mailto:schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 5:45 AM > To: Matt Broze; Paddlewise > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Modern history of kayaking > > > Do you have any plans of making your database available online? > > At 8:04 PM -0800 2/20/01, Matt Broze wrote: > >... > >The number of one-person kayak builders I know of worldwide as > of today is > >689. These aren't all commercial builders but most of the non-commercial > >builders fall into the wood kayak subsection.... > -- > Nick Schade > Guillemot Kayaks > 824 Thompson St > Glastonbury, CT 06033 > (860) 659-8847 > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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