From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Thunderstorm You said: Thunderstorm According to the manual my GPS is water- and shockproof. Indestructible, you would think. Since yesterday I know better: When lightning strikes at a few meters distance a GPS is as dead as a dodo. I found out about halfway across the Waal, one of the biggest and most crowded rivers in the Netherlands. I had seen some big ships coming my way when I left the shore and a ferry just starting to cross...<snip> ---- I'd leave the "Liar's" thunderstorm to guys like Rev Bob :-) Anyway, I've been in a few thunderstorms, and it isn't a laughing matter. There are some good indicators for when and where they can strike. I'd suggest a little extra meteorological reading rather that writing, including literature and videos on things like cloud identification, fronts, etc. A much as I love paddling out in our own open seas off Vancouver Island with the visceral thrill of exploding skies, I generally avoid the pleasure. Chicken Little, I guess. He who runs away, lives to paddle another day. Dougie Do (who knows all to well what it is like when the ominous Cumulonimbus hammer suddenly falls off the "anvil", or as Edgar Allan Poe wrote in "The Fall of the House of Usher," "when the clouds hung oppresively low in the heavens...") *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<<I'd leave the "Liar's" thunderstorm to guys like Rev Bob :-)>> Phooey on Doug. I think it is a great tale. Keep up the good work. <<I'd suggest a little extra meteorological reading rather that writing, including literature and videos on things like cloud identification, fronts, etc>> The big problem with this is that in so much of the area the storms just come up in localized area. There is a chance of thunder storms just about every day, it seems. I have to admit the first time I got caught I knew full well a cell was headed right at us. I THOUGHT I could get off the water quickly and into a protected area. Well, Joan didn't plan well enough. I didn't take into account that the river we were on is in a deep gully so we couldn't see the clouds move in. The thunder, by the time it reached us, was just about on top of us. Added to that was that the river is totally lined on the side we were on with an assortment of sea walls. Most of the docks were too high to reach up to to pull myself out of my boat onto. Finally we found a place and ran up the stairs to the carport of a house where we huddled in the plastic lawn chairs until it passed. I wasn't all that scared, being rather fatalistic about such things but Mardi was terrified to the gibbering point. I was more concerned with not letting the boat go when I got out because it wasn't my boat. The cockpit was too small for me to get my knees up to push out of the boat with my feet so I needed either a handhold or someone to help me. Mardi kept yelling at me to get out of the boat. I'd say I need your help to get out. She'd run over, hear thunder or see lightening, forget she was helping me and run away again, only to turn and yell at me to get out. This went on for about 3 rounds, until I finally got mad enough to get through to her that he was loosing it and to get me the hell out of the water! A bit of Keystone Cops but her fear did get to me and I have to admit to being more than unhappy in that situation. Lightening is like airplanes, you have no control. What is going to happen is going to happen. I have read all of this and still am not clear just what to do if I am stuck in the boat by the shore. Do I get near trees or not? Do I stay out in the clear or not? I think I'd be more comfortable if I really knew what to do. One day we went on a picnic and a storm blew in. I went to get the car and when I got back Mom and my sister were under a tree making an attempt to stay dry. The picked up things and ran to get in the car. Just after they moved from under the tree this bolt of lightening struck exactly where they ahd been. I didn't tell them that but the strike was enough to shake them up. I've heard movement will draw lightening so paddling or running may be counter productive. I think I'm going to have to work on getting my Netscape to run and check those links Jackie and others posted. Thanks for all the stories. I'm glad everyone survived, especially Niels <G>. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > > The big problem with this is that in so much of the area the storms just come > up in localized area. There is a chance of thunder storms just about every > day, it seems. ..... > Well, Joan didn't plan well enough. I didn't take into account that the > river we were on is in a deep gully so we couldn't see the clouds move in. > The thunder, by the time it reached us, was just about on top of us. Local belief is that if the river is that far down, it's unlikely that the lightning is going to come down there anyway. That's how we operate on the Nantahala (Cherokee for "River of the Noonday [only] Sun"*) anyway. *--Or it may be Cherokee for "River of the Out-of-control Rafts. One or the other. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joan said: <<I'd leave the "Liar's" thunderstorm to guys like Rev Bob :-)>> Phooey on Doug. I think it is a great tale. Keep up the good work. ------- Sorry Joan, I just can't believe Niels would waste a perfectly good paddle -- thunderstorm or no thunderstorm :-) <<I'd suggest a little extra meteorological reading rather that writing, including literature and videos on things like cloud identification, fronts, etc>> The big problem with this is that in so much of the area the storms just come up in localized area. There is a chance of thunder storms just about every day, it seems. I have to admit the first time I got caught I knew full well a cell was headed right at us. I THOUGHT I could get off the water quickly and into a protected area. <snip> I must admit that in some areas this is very true. Around my neck of the woods, avoidance is a lot easier, just as it is easier to avoid offshore winds here -- as outflow winds up our inlets are fairly easy to be pro-active about; yet on the east coast, offshore winds can be a more consistent threat. Guess each geographical area has its unique hazards. Be safe Joan. DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As I read, some people go INTO the water to avoid being hit by lightning. A diver actually felt the current going through his body and lived to tell us about it. I must say that going into the water is tempting, not only to avoid the lightning, but also because the water might be much more comfortable then the winds, heavy rain and possible hail at the surface. Still, I am wondering about one small detail... I guess the diver was talking about salt water, that is a better electric conductor then the human body. In sweet water, the story might be completely different. Any surviving sweet water divers that have something to add? Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Blaauw, Niels" wrote: > > As I read, some people go INTO the water to avoid being hit by lightning. A > diver actually felt the current going through his body and lived to tell us > about it. [snip] > Still, I am wondering about one small detail... I guess the diver was > talking about salt water, that is a better electric conductor then the human > body. In sweet water, the story might be completely different. Any surviving > sweet water divers that have something to add? Not a diver. But, I have watched this thread for a couple days now, and feel a couple of general principles may assist folks in sorting the wheat from the chaff: 1. Anything -- makes not much difference whether it is a "conductor" -or- an "insulator" in the usual sense of 110 volt household current -- which protrudes above the surrounding surface is a prime locus for a lightning strike. Michael Edelman correctly identified the reason as due to the electrostatic potential, pointed objects having a greater electrostatic potential than rounded ones. Morals: don't stand up under thunderheads; if on the water, minimize your protrusion above the water surface; if on land, don't locate yourself near an isolated tree (or two), although a _large_ copse may provide better protection than crouching out in the open; fiberglass is _not_ an insulating material at the potentials of a lightning strike -- a fiberglass hat or hull will not protect you. 2. If your body is _in the path_ a lightning strike takes, there is a good chance you will be toast, whether you choose to hold onto your paddle or your derriere (sp?). Reason: the potential difference generated across your body during a strike is enormous -- enough to fry you in the worst case, and enough to stop your heart in the best case. Morals: don't point objects into the sky under a thunderhead (saw a guy "draw sparks" from the sky with his wooden-shafted ice axe during a storm one day; the rope connecting him to me was seconds from being cut by my "belay knife"); hiding under things may not work (viz., the incidents in which folks hid in caves) because "ground currents" may trace through you; if on the water, swimming may help to minimize your profile, but current through the water may zap you anyway (makes little difference whether in fresh or salt water). 3. If you take reasonable precautions, the probability of being struck by lightning is _very small_. Moral: go paddle and don't worry about it! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I was diving in the ocean and probably at 40 feet heading up, but waiting for the storm to clear. I would NOT want to be in the water at the surface! The depth of the water was 80 feet or so and I believe the strike dissipated in a hemisphere very much like light does at the square of the distance. I doubt that fresh water (sweet) would make a significant difference. Cya >>> As I read, some people go INTO the water to avoid being hit by lightning. A diver actually felt the current going through his body and lived to tell us about it. I must say that going into the water is tempting, not only to avoid the lightning, but also because the water might be much more comfortable then the winds, heavy rain and possible hail at the surface. Still, I am wondering about one small detail... I guess the diver was talking about salt water, that is a better electric conductor then the human body. In sweet water, the story might be completely different. Any surviving sweet water divers that have something to add? Niels >>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > Moral: go paddle and don't worry about it! Unless a storm is brewing nearby. :-) More likely to be struck by lightning? Check out this amusing article about how statistics are often used by media or special interests and calculating your odds of being a human lightning rod: http://www.stats.org/spotlight/2200.html I do think the area of the country in which one resides tends to color one's perception about the hazards of lightning. Location certainly plays a big part in what type of storm you can expect. Coming from Texas and paddling the Gulf coast and due to many first-hand experiences with lightning strikes, my anxiety level on approaching storms in the Gulf coast region would rate in the higher range for concern about lightning strikes. Check out this map which shows the 1980-1994 climatological probability of severe weather events (US) occurring within 25 miles of any point for that day (the entire Gulf and Atlantic coasts are a hotbed of activity). Takes a little bit of time to load but is interesting to see the images. http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/hazard/tanim8094/anysevanim8094.html For an explanation of this map and more detailed data, go to: http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/hazard/loops.html Florida, where lightning kills more people than any other meteorological phenomena ( http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mlb/ltgcenter/ltgsafety.html ), has the highest number of lightning-strike injuries and fatalaties in the US. At that same NOAA URL: "A recent study which analyzed lightning strike victims in Florida found most were young males. The most common activities people were involved in when struck were related to employment, and then recreaton. It was also found that most of the people were struck either prior to the storm (rain) reaching their location, or after the storm (rain) had ended. Most of the people struck were either near water or near/under trees. The above web page also describes what a "lightning bolt out of the blue" event is. Lightning Safety for Campers and Hikers (National Lightning Safety Institute) http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/ploutdoor.htm If anyone has already mentioned any of these URL's, my apologies for reposting the same info. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Fenton" <jackie_at_intelenet.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Thunderstorm > Florida, where lightning kills more people than any other meteorological > phenomena ( http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mlb/ltgcenter/ltgsafety.html ), has > the highest number of lightning-strike injuries and fatalaties in the US. > At that same NOAA URL: > > "A recent study which analyzed lightning strike victims in Florida found > most were young males. The most common activities people were involved > in when struck were related to employment, and then recreaton. It was > also found that most of the people were struck either prior to the storm > (rain) reaching their location, or after the storm (rain) had ended. > Most of the people struck were either near water or near/under trees. > Unfortunately, during the hot summer months, I find myself in those conditions more frequently than I would like. Given the frequency of summer thunderstorms in my area and the manner in which they suddenly appear, I'm surprised I haven't been struck. Not to long ago an individual was struck and killed while standing on a dock where I frequently launch during conditions typical of many of my Kayaking trips. Obviously, the key, among other precautions, is to avoid being outside, especially on a body of water, during one of these storms, if at all possible; that is: avoid afternoon kayaking trips when conditions are rip for a storm and carry a weather radio for severe thunderstorm warnings--just don't hold it to your ear as the storm approaches. Thunderstorms and kayaking don't mix! Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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