Rec.boats.paddle.touring has been having a discussion on LEDs but it seems mainly confined to using LED white lights around a campsite for reading, cooking, searchiing through gear bags. We have touched on the general subject before. But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wonderiing what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a kayak paddliing after dark. I am particularly interested in LED visibility performance in situations in which there is a lot of background "noise" in the sense of city lights etc. that may hid the beam of light emitting from a kayak. We are now in the beginning stages of a pilot program in which we will be testing various lighting schemes on kayaks in New York Harbor. This is being done in cooperation with the US Coast Guard and local commercial interests (some reps from the Sandy Hook Pilots Association; possibly other local operators). On the kayaking side it will several local kayakers (including me) and the Manhattan Kayak Company (a local touring and instruction company that does run evening tours on the Hudson River off of Manhattan--Eric Stiller is a principal of the company). Sometimes such initiatives never get anywhere but, if it does happen, what it will involve is several kayakers with radios and various lighting devices. In the test stage, operators on various size vessels will try to spot the kayakers' lighting schemes under different situations of total darkness and background light "noise." The Coast Guard will also be trying to spot them and will secure the safety of the testing area through radio announcements and patrols. Again, this is preliminary. What we hope will come out of this are some realistic tests on a formal basis in various conditions. The results should be a rating of different lighting systems and recommendations. I think that existing type lights and possibly LEDs will do the job. It would be good to know which. But if nothing is on the market today that fulfills the need, we would then approach manufacturers with a wish list of light devices they might produce as prototypes or modifications of existing items. If you have any ideas on this, let me know. Oh, another thing. We are trying to establish lighting recommendations for the following categories: 1. Just-in-case lights for a paddler to always have with him/her just in case they get caught in low light situations at the end of the day because of delays caused by winds or illness. 2. Lights for an individual to have when he or she sets out deliberately for a night paddle trip. 3. Lighting schemes that a group may want to employ as it paddles as a bloc. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph, I don't have a whole lot to add, but I'm interested in what you might compile. With other similarly nutty companions, I set out on a night paddle up the Houston Ship Channel a few months back. What I rigged for my sea kayak, using mostly pvc piping for support stands, was both fore and aft lights for my boat. For less than $20 at a local Academy (discount-type sporting goods store, in case they haven't made it to your area) I bought battery-powered lights made (I think) for small power craft. That included the "all around" white light that is required on smaller craft and should be above the tallest part of your boat; and the red/green split light for the bow. I used hatch cover straps to stabilize the lights, particularly the "all around". Of course this would create much difficulty if a roll was required, but luckily that didn't happen. My comrades did similarly for their craft. We got almost immediate reward for this - being suddenly in the search light of a tug boat coming up the channel which none of us had seen. If he hadn't picked up on us, we might not have seen him at all. The commercial craft (and I do mean ocean-going ships) run with amazingly few lights on them and there is enough background noise etc. they are very hard to hear. As you might imagine in this part of Texas, the banks have refineries on them at regular intervals and our usual notice of a big ship would be as the moving black spot - blocking out the refinery lights (for the uninitiated, refineries are incredibly well lit at night). Occasional wafting of refinery fumes not the best, and even more noticeable the 100 degrees output of the power plant we paddled by. But ya gotta do this at least once if you're going to be properly initiated to Texas. Hopefully Doug Lloyd will also respond. If you look carefully at my photos from the trip in October, you'll see the flag stand he rigged for his boat for at least daytime visibility in the Victoria harbor. I'll resend the URL if you'd like. He was bristling with distress flares etc. - nah, we won't go there... Natalie Wiest Galveston TX [snip] We are now in the beginning stages of a pilot program in which we will be testing various lighting schemes on kayaks in New York Harbor. This is being done in cooperation with the US Coast Guard and local commercial interests (some reps from the Sandy Hook Pilots Association; possibly other local operators). [snip] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- Natalie Wiest <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> wrote: > What I rigged for my sea > kayak, > using mostly pvc piping for support stands, was both fore and aft > lights for > my boat. For less than $20 at a local Academy (discount-type > sporting goods > store, in case they haven't made it to your area) I bought > battery-powered > lights made (I think) for small power craft. That included the "all > around" > white light that is required on smaller craft and should be above the > tallest part of your boat; and the red/green split light for the > bow. Apologies if this is has been covered. I am erraticly looking at messages unread for a week or so. Unless the rules have changed (my copy of Chapman is old), the "all around" white light is only legal on power boats. A "vessel propelled by oars" (or a sailboat) should only show a white light through stern arc, if it shows the red and green bow lights. I have no idea if the Coast Guard would actually cite you for this, but I plan to start doing more night boating soon, and will try to comply with the system. Of course, we also have the option of ONLY showing a white light, so we can confuse everybody. Not that it is too hard to confuse most pleasure-boaters, few of whom seem to have ANY knowledge of the rules! ===== Mike Wagenbach Seattle "Watch out, those monkeys bite!" Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have been getting good comments on this both within PaddleWise and back channel. Do keep the info flowing! Someone passed the message on to a company that manufactures LED components and a fellow called me from therre (BTW, I don't think that such pass-ons are a violation of PaddleWise policy as my question was clearly open-ended and welcoming of inputs from anyone). That led to most useful info. Basically you can get LEDs to the same luminens as an incandescent or halogen the only limit, at this time, being possible costs of such a unit. The fellow gave me some good pointers that are most appreciated. What was particularly revealing was that LEDS could be programmed to automatically run from, say, yellow light to white to blue and back again. This color change would have the benefit of drawing attention and being noticed. That is what makes a flashing light such as a strobe or one of those red LEDs used for bicyclist so great in drawing attention. But, as we are aware, a flashing light in a maritime setting can only be used as a distress signal such as a white strobe. Other flashing light colors, such as red, are also out because they may be confused with a navigation light and lead a large vessel astray aground or into a collision. A changing light color is sort of like a flash but is not a flash. Someone mentioned using light sticks duct-taped to the paddle blades. From what I have seen that has not been as effective as it might seem to be but it is certainly something we will put to a real life test among other schemes. Also someone mentioned using a flashing light on deck...a no-no for reasons explained above. Having said this, however, a few of us locals agree that if we were out in traffic accidentally at night and scared to death we would use our strobe as a last minute warning if that is all we had and take our chances with the law. I am not advocating this as a replacement for a workable normal lighting system just being realistic. Oh, an added comment to what Al Mille indicated he did (flashlights with red and green lens on paddle blade powered by 2 AA batteries each). His system added 10 ounces of weight to the paddle. That is a lot for most of us. I am wondering whether LEDs would be great in such an application powered by 1 AAA battery each. This would reduce weight significantly, probably to about 3 ounces total for the two flashlights. Since it is the paddle motion that draws the attention, this may be enough light. Again, keep the ideas coming. Rest assured that whatever the results are of the real-life tests, we will post them on PaddleWise immediately since it is such an excellent circulation point and clearancehouse for valuable information. Another point: I want to acknowledge again the role that Manhattan Kayak Company is taking in this particularly Bonnie Aldinger, one of the partners in the company, who is co-leading this effort with me. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph, Actually both light sources are powered from one controller and 2 AA batteries (a nine volt system will deliver 36 hours of continuous use). The majority of the weight resides between the paddler's hands and through my use have been unnoticeable. Granted I am not an extreme paddler but I do paddle 20+ miles per day at my leisurely pace. Al Mille ----- Original Message ----- From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:34 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] More Re: Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc. > I have been getting good comments on this both within PaddleWise and back > channel. Do keep the info flowing! > > Someone passed the message on to a company that manufactures LED components > and a fellow called me from therre (BTW, I don't think that such pass-ons > are a violation of PaddleWise policy as my question was clearly open-ended > and welcoming of inputs from anyone). That led to most useful info. > Basically you can get LEDs to the same luminens as an incandescent or > halogen the only limit, at this time, being possible costs of such a unit. > The fellow gave me some good pointers that are most appreciated. > > What was particularly revealing was that LEDS could be programmed to > automatically run from, say, yellow light to white to blue and back again. > This color change would have the benefit of drawing attention and being > noticed. That is what makes a flashing light such as a strobe or one of > those red LEDs used for bicyclist so great in drawing attention. But, as we > are aware, a flashing light in a maritime setting can only be used as a > distress signal such as a white strobe. Other flashing light colors, such > as red, are also out because they may be confused with a navigation light > and lead a large vessel astray aground or into a collision. A changing > light color is sort of like a flash but is not a flash. > > Someone mentioned using light sticks duct-taped to the paddle blades. >From > what I have seen that has not been as effective as it might seem to be but > it is certainly something we will put to a real life test among other > schemes. Also someone mentioned using a flashing light on deck...a no-no > for reasons explained above. Having said this, however, a few of us locals > agree that if we were out in traffic accidentally at night and scared to > death we would use our strobe as a last minute warning if that is all we had > and take our chances with the law. I am not advocating this as a > replacement for a workable normal lighting system just being realistic. > > Oh, an added comment to what Al Mille indicated he did (flashlights with red > and green lens on paddle blade powered by 2 AA batteries each). His system > added 10 ounces of weight to the paddle. That is a lot for most of us. I > am wondering whether LEDs would be great in such an application powered by 1 > AAA battery each. This would reduce weight significantly, probably to about > 3 ounces total for the two flashlights. Since it is the paddle motion that > draws the attention, this may be enough light. > > Again, keep the ideas coming. Rest assured that whatever the results are of > the real-life tests, we will post them on PaddleWise immediately since it is > such an excellent circulation point and clearancehouse for valuable > information. > > Another point: I want to acknowledge again the role that Manhattan Kayak > Company is taking in this particularly Bonnie Aldinger, one of the partners > in the company, who is co-leading this effort with me. > > ralph diaz > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I did some work on white LEDs a few years ago. Glad to see they are catching on. As far as I know, the brightest white LEDs available are around 4 candle power. Of course you could use 1000 of them. Nichia is the leading manufacturer of white LEDs. cu -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of ralph diaz Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:35 PM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] More Re: Being Seen At Night--LEDs etc. I have been getting good comments on this both within PaddleWise and back channel. Do keep the info flowing! Someone passed the message on to a company that manufactures LED components and a fellow called me from therre (BTW, I don't think that such pass-ons are a violation of PaddleWise policy as my question was clearly open-ended and welcoming of inputs from anyone). That led to most useful info. Basically you can get LEDs to the same luminens as an incandescent or halogen the only limit, at this time, being possible costs of such a unit. The fellow gave me some good pointers that are most appreciated. What was particularly revealing was that LEDS could be programmed to automatically run from, say, yellow light to white to blue and back again. This color change would have the benefit of drawing attention and being noticed. That is what makes a flashing light such as a strobe or one of those red LEDs used for bicyclist so great in drawing attention. But, as we are aware, a flashing light in a maritime setting can only be used as a distress signal such as a white strobe. Other flashing light colors, such as red, are also out because they may be confused with a navigation light and lead a large vessel astray aground or into a collision. A changing light color is sort of like a flash but is not a flash. Someone mentioned using light sticks duct-taped to the paddle blades. From what I have seen that has not been as effective as it might seem to be but it is certainly something we will put to a real life test among other schemes. Also someone mentioned using a flashing light on deck...a no-no for reasons explained above. Having said this, however, a few of us locals agree that if we were out in traffic accidentally at night and scared to death we would use our strobe as a last minute warning if that is all we had and take our chances with the law. I am not advocating this as a replacement for a workable normal lighting system just being realistic. Oh, an added comment to what Al Mille indicated he did (flashlights with red and green lens on paddle blade powered by 2 AA batteries each). His system added 10 ounces of weight to the paddle. That is a lot for most of us. I am wondering whether LEDs would be great in such an application powered by 1 AAA battery each. This would reduce weight significantly, probably to about 3 ounces total for the two flashlights. Since it is the paddle motion that draws the attention, this may be enough light. Again, keep the ideas coming. Rest assured that whatever the results are of the real-life tests, we will post them on PaddleWise immediately since it is such an excellent circulation point and clearancehouse for valuable information. Another point: I want to acknowledge again the role that Manhattan Kayak Company is taking in this particularly Bonnie Aldinger, one of the partners in the company, who is co-leading this effort with me. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph (and others), you may want to contact some rowing clubs/organizations. I belong to a rowing club (have to store my kayak somewhere), and I know there is a lot of discussion amongst rowers concerning bow and stern lights. -Patrick At 10:46 AM -0500 3/6/01, ralph diaz wrote: >Rec.boats.paddle.touring has been having a discussion on LEDs but it seems >mainly confined to using LED white lights around a campsite for reading, >cooking, searchiing through gear bags. We have touched on the general >subject before. But since the LED scene is an evolving one, I am wonderiing >what handle anyone might have on their effectiveness in being seen on a >kayak paddliing after dark. [SNIP] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:20 PDT