In a message dated 3/8/01 11:43:21 AM, wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu writes: << rather than feed the panic reflex that many of us have, teach to a solution rather than set up for failure (panic). >> Hi Natalie, I'm not sure I understand you. With regard to wet exits, the only approach I know is to work to desensitize the student to the anxiety associated with being upside down in an enclosed kayak. I work with various students in a variety of ways depending on their relative anxiety level. For the worst ones we develop a trust in the instructor first by having them lower themselves into the water and pulling themselves back up while holding into my arm. Later we work towards letting go of my arm while upside down before grabbing my arm again and pulling themselves up. Then we might have them capsize with arms wrapped around the boat and I right them immediately. Later we'll have them capsize and bang on the bottom of the boat as a signal to right them. Only after their confidence in the instructor is established do we move on to wet exits. Eventually I have them perform a wet exit, which we practice slowly and deliberately, believing that the rushing only feeds into the anxiety levels. My wet exit model matches quite closely the model that John Fereira described. I know of no other method to calm a panicky paddler, but I am open to suggestions since this is not an uncommon problem. When it comes time to learn to roll we work backwards from lowering themselves into the water then hipsnap while I support the paddle blade, to lower and sweep to the bow, sweep and hipsnap and on and on until they have a roll. It's not quite that simple but this is the basic idea. I always found the reentry and roll more stressful that just a simple roll. And I personally I would not teach the reenter and roll before the student had at least a somewhat reliable standard roll. I try to instill in my students a sense that a reliable roll is so superior to all other self-rescues that they should strive to master "the roll", and not just be satisfied with learning one roll or two rolls but dedicate themselves to learning all conceivable rolls. We most often start to teach people to hand roll in the belief that this skill will teach them proper body position and proper hipsnap movement from the beginning. The beauty of the kayak is that it *can* be self-righted. This is in large part what makes the kayak so seaworthy since almost nothing, not even a capsize will stop it. All proficient rollers will tell you that a good roll requires almost no effort at all. Since a well performed roll requires so little effort there is much spare energy / rolling capacity available to handle strange and unusual conditions like current, wind or even seaweed, ice and other obstacles. Let me offer one last thought to the list in general. Rather than rolling being complicated and difficult to learn and unreliable once learned, maybe the issue is that the instruction the student has received was not as effective as it might have been. Maybe the solution is to seek out another instructor and not stopping the learning process until the student has mastered the roll. I see a lot of people with less that reliable rolls and I work with as many as time permits. Some improve quickly while others seem to struggle for every bit of improvement. But I assure you of this, the problem with an unreliable roll is not due to any limited value of the Eskimo Roll itself, but with the technique of the paddler performing that unreliable roll. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/8/01 11:43:21 AM, wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu writes: << rather than feed the panic reflex that many of us have, teach to a solution rather than set up for failure (panic). >> Hi Natalie, I'm not sure I understand you. With regard to wet exits, the only approach I know is to work to desensitize the student to the anxiety associated with being upside down in an enclosed kayak. I work with various students in a variety of ways depending on their relative anxiety level. major snip *************************************************************************** Jed, The technique that Natalie described worked for me. I started getting panicky just watching the film on rolling and could feel the anxiety escalating as I entered the water in a doughboy pool. Lucky for me the instructor was totally low key, no pressure. I told him that I was starting to freak but didn't want to go home. He asked if I was comfortable with my head underwater, and when I said yes he had me swim underwater for awhile and then he had me put my head into an overturned kayak and breathe, then I graduated to a reentry and roll. I won't repeat everything Natalie said, but if he had forced me to stay in the kayak and try it from there, my anxiety would have grown to a level impossible to overcome. Different techniques work for different people. I don't know if gender enters into this at all but it seems that giving me the suggestion to do things familiar to me (swimming underwater etc.) then graduating to the more usual teaching method was far less stressful and *doable* than insisting I fit into a pattern that the instructor had determined was less stressful. I found that I trusted him far more than I would have had he insisted that I do it his way. This was truly "teaching to a solution". I don't believe that finding alternatives "set up for failure (panic)". Your approach seems to work for many people and it is clear that you are sensitive to people's fears and try to adjust your technique. I think had I been your student I would have felt the way a kid having problems with a math concept would have felt when a teacher says the same thing over and over but slower - frustrated, anxious and wanting to walk away from the problem forever. Again, maybe it's a gender thing, I don't know. Thanks for your input. Alice *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What Natalie describes is what we have done minus the roll. If someone feels a bit panicked, we stand in about 4 foot of water, invert the kayak, and the student gets into the kayak using the somersault (may take a couple of tries), raps the side of the boat, and comes out again. Seems the feel very secure doing it. After they do that once or twice, there is usually little fear in 'taking the plunge' with the skirt on and air side up. They seem to remember the rap, wave, but never paddle retention. That usually takes a couple more tries. "Alice J. Bennett" wrote: > > In a message dated 3/8/01 11:43:21 AM, wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu writes: > > << rather than feed the panic reflex that many of us have, teach to a > solution rather than set up for failure (panic). >> > > Hi Natalie, > > I'm not sure I understand you. With regard to wet exits, the only > approach I know is to work to desensitize the student to the anxiety > associated with being upside down in an enclosed kayak. I work with various > students in a variety of ways depending on their relative anxiety level. > > major snip > *************************************************************************** > The technique that Natalie described worked for me. I started getting > panicky just watching the film on rolling and could feel the anxiety > escalating as I entered the water in a doughboy pool. Lucky for me the > instructor was totally low key, no pressure. I told him that I was starting > to freak but didn't want to go home. He asked if I was comfortable with my > head underwater, and when I said yes he had me swim underwater for awhile > and then he had me put my head into an overturned kayak and breathe, then I > graduated to a reentry and roll. -- Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com İİİİİ furniture from the workshop http://studiofurniture.com/diary İİİİİ life as a tourist, daily journal http://studiofurniture.com/paint İİİİİ paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A small point to add to the wealth of useful information on this and related threads--- I find that a simple "hang-time test" is a good confidence builder for the paddler anxious about wet exiting, as well as the paddler who is hurring roll attempts. Simply have the anxious paddler hold onto the toggle of your boat, and have him/her capsize while holding on while you time the hang time. Even anxious paddlers will settle in to the task by the third trial. Most will come up in something between 20 and 40 seconds. Tell them their time and then use the opportunity to point out how this gives them plenty of time to relax, gather their wits, plan the next move, and try three or four rolls before having to come out of the boat. Emphasize the value of just settling down for 2-3 seconds before doing ANYTHING, and reiterate that this is just a small fraction of their hang time. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 3/8/01 7:49:38 PM, ajbjd_at_msn.com writes: << I think had I been your student I would have felt the way a kid having problems with a math concept would have felt when a teacher says the same thing over and over but slower - frustrated, anxious and wanting to walk away from the problem forever. >> Hi Alice, Thanks for your comments. The longer I teach the clearer I realize that teaching is maybe 10% knowing what to do and 90% knowing how to present it. Sometimes I feel like a novice at knowing how to present the material but I am constantly working to improve. The technique I described certainly worked for this one particular student but you are right, each person is different and what works for one might be misery for another. You are lucky to have had a caring and creative instructor. Someday I hope to be remembered as that creative and caring by my students. In one of my responses I sent to Natalie, I talked about how sometimes instructors project their own experiences and emotional memories onto their students, masking their students true feelings. I have certainly been guilty of this and can only hope that becoming sensitive to the possibilities will allow me to break that pattern of behavior. I have found both Natalie's and your posts fascinating and I plan to spend considerable time and energy exploring new aspects to teaching. Thanks for your honest and frank comments. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:20 PDT