Kevin wrote: >>>>>>>Had a little conversation with George Gronseth today. One of the benefits of teaching for him is that I get to ask as many questions about kayaking as I want. I have to admit some lack of education on proper paddle sizing as far as euro-style paddles are concerned. I always use a Greenland stick, because they are so much fun compared to white-man's paddles.<<<<< Let me get this straight , you teach whitewater paddling and you always use a Greenland paddle. Did I read that right? >>>>>>Anyhow, what I learned from George makes a lot of sense to me at least, though undoubtedly many on this list will think it heresy. :) #1 Only the paddle shaft length is important, not the overall length of the shaft plus blades.<<<<<<< While I agree that this is more important than overall length for sizing the paddle to reach over the kayak, long or short blades will have an effect on the cadence or "gear ratio" of your paddle because the center of effort of the paddle will be further from you with longer blades even if the shaft is the same length. >>>>>.#2 The proper shaft length does not depend on the size of the paddler at all, but rather on the size of the kayak being paddled. The reasons for this has to do with the catch phase of the stroke. Too short a paddle will cause the side of the kayak to interfere with the catch. This will cause the stroke to initiate with some fraction of power wasted because the catch starts further back. Unfortunately, the initial catch is where the majority of the paddle stroke power is generated. Thus a lot of power is wasted if the paddle shaft is too short. I experienced this when I paddled with a 200cm whitewater paddle some time back. The blade would bump into the deck, severely limiting the most useful part of my stroke. Blade size does not matter, because as Matt Broze said earlier, water is a heavy fluid and even most small blades hardly slip through the water. Paddler size does not matter much... not when compared to kayak beam and deck height. These factors dominate over paddler size, because they dictate how long the paddle shaft should be.<<<<<<<< I agree with all this, George and I used to have debates over these things and finally worked it down so the only disagreement was if it was better to feather or unfeather. We even reduced that disagreement down to mostly--just how small or large was the loss paddling unfeathered into a wind. He said small, I said it sure felt like a lot to me, He said it feels like more than it is. I said "feel" means a lot to me. I always wanted to try to calculate what percentage of the total drag would be due to the head wind on flat paddle blades, but haven't yet attempted the calculations. Maybe we can avoid the math, Kevin, do you still have access to a wind tunnel. >>>>>>>According to George, the best way to determine proper paddle shaft length is trial and error. Try several different paddle shaft lengths, and determine which one gives you just enough clearance over your deck. Once clearance is achieved, any extra length is only a disadvantage because of the slower stroke cadence (and other reasons). None of this applies to a Greenland style paddle, because that is a totally different animal. One other bit of George wisdom, which is one of the first things he teaches in his classes... Feather angle does not matter at all. Just pick one, and stick with it.<<<<<<<< If this is what George really said we're even closer together in our opinions now than since we last talked paddles. Next thing you know he might switch to paddling feathered:-) Note I received the e-mail containing the virus Bob Volin and Ralph Diaz warned about (from Christine Allison). I tried to reply but don't know if it was received. The virus immediately sent me another copy of itself though. Thanks for the Nick of time warning, guys. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 6:00 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] paddle sizing heresy > > Let me get this straight , you teach whitewater paddling and you always use > a Greenland paddle. Did I read that right? Yep... I always use a greenland paddle. But only when sea kayaking, of course. On the river, I use a 200cm ATX bentshaft. Nobody uses greenland paddles on whitewater rivers. (or if they do, I want to hear about it). > #1 Only the paddle shaft length is important, not the overall length of the > shaft plus blades.<<<<<<< > > While I agree that this is more important than overall length for sizing the > paddle to reach over the kayak, long or short blades will have an effect on > the cadence or "gear ratio" of your paddle because the center of effort of > the paddle will be further from you with longer blades even if the shaft is > the same length. Yes, I agree with what you say. It just seems to me that paddle shaft length is the first thing that prospective paddle buyers should focus on. Then blade size (and thus overall length) should come second. Cheers, Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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