Some changes at Toquart Bay, in Barkley Sound, which may affect folks planning to launch there: 1. Now costs $CDN 10/night to camp there ($CDN 5/night with annual BC Forestry pass). 2. The official rule is that parking in the trad. kayakers' lot is supposed to cost, also, but the operator is "allowing" a CG slip to supplant the annual permit ($CDN25; see below). 3. Plans afoot to improve the facility are postd on the portapotties. Upshot is that it will resemble a more civilized "camp ground," with a nicer appearance, and a lift in the grade for the trad. kayakers' parking lot. The latter is the up-side. The down-side is that it looks as though there will be less room for parking, and it will be tougher to back your 4WD PU down to the tide line for easy off-loading. That's progress ... 4. Toquart Bay Store now open -- follow signs to location, which is about 3-4 kms from the launch site. I used this, and welcome it, as there had not been any place for last minute stuff I forgot. Stock is limited, but seems to fit what I forget. Ice was my highest priority. Not shilling for the store, just letting folks know it's there. (I like to put some bucks in the local economy when I launch.) Just back. Too tired to write more. There is other good news and other bad news for Broken Group aficionados. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 1 09:12:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21856 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21846 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4.america.net (atl4.america.net [199.170.121.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10697 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max1-49.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.50]) by atl4.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25592; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:11:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B3F4D4D.50704_at_gsinet.net> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 12:18:21 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>, MSKC <MSKC_at_egroups.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip report. Gerrish Island June 24. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I looked at Mark and his eyes were wide, his lip was curled and his face was fried. His hands were frozen to the paddle like a tongue to a sled in the middle of a blizzard…. Oops! Wrong song! Mark stayed within his comfort zone throughout the trip. But I will buy lunch for the first person that can correctly identify the artist and song I just misquoted. (Family and close friends excepted, they have already been exposed enough to my eclectic taste in music to identify it.) The weather report for Sunday, June 24 2001 was a mixed bag of sun, rain, and fog. The wind was predicted at ten to twenty miles per hour and the seas at two to four feet. Mark and I arrived at the gate to Fort Foster at 9:30 to find two dive groups in front of us. The gates do not open until ten A.M. By 9:45 all nine of us were lined up waiting for the gate. The gatekeeper finally arrived and we proceeded to the windsurfing beach. As predicted there was fog. A blanket of it reduced visibility to about a quarter mile at sea level. I hoped that the fog would lift because you can't enjoy the beauty of Brave Boat Harbor if you can't see it. As I had hoped the fog lifted while we were bringing the kayaks and gear down to the launch point. By the time I was ready to climb into my kayak the visibility was about two miles and improving. I was the last one off the beach, helping others get ready. When I climbed into my kayak I discovered to my chagrin that my foot pedals had mysteriously migrated up to the shortest setting. My left foot hit the pedal hard enough to knock it off of the track. No damage was done, but I had to run up to the truck to get a wrench. I had to disconnect one end of the rail in order to slide the foot pedal back on. Afloat at last! We headed out from the beach and passed between Horn Island and White Island, headed northeast on the outside passage to Brave Boat Harbor. When we were at the gate paying to get into Fort Foster the gate keeper told us that the inside passage was blocked so we decided to take the outside passage to Brave Boat Harbor then come back the same way. At least that way we would be able to see the harbor. Shortly after we cleared the protection of White Island the wind shifted around to directly onshore. The waves were running about two feet and slightly confused because of a number of rocky islands in the area. With the change in the wind the wave height began to increase and a couple of the less experienced members of our group stated that they were beginning to feel a bit uncomfortable in these conditions. One of the cardinal rules that I try to live by when paddling in groups is to always listen when someone states reservations. If they are uncomfortable with the situation then it is best to improve the situation. After a brief group discussion we decided to head up the Piscataqua River and into Chauncey Creek. This was the direction we had originally planned and a much more sheltered route. Passing between Wood Island and Gerrish Island the water calmed down considerably. Rather than paddle around the fishing pier at Fort Foster we paddled under it. We had to take care when passing through because the pilings were less than a paddle length apart. But with a tail wind and a two- knot tidal current we had no trouble. The tidal currents in the Piscataqua River are among the stronger in the world. The current at Dover point has been known to drag under small boats that made the mistake of anchoring stern first. The peak currents throughout much of the river are too fast for a kayak to make headway against it. In fact even the larger vessels usually wait for slack water to enter or leave Portsmouth Harbor. But we were in the first third of the tide so the currents were reasonable. Paddling past Fishing Island we entered Pepperrell Cove. One of our group decided to pass between Gooseberry Island and Phillips Island. The rest of us, at least one citing a case of Graniteophobia as the reason, chose to pass between Gooseberry Island and Gerrish Island. (I swear somebody in the area loved double letter words!) There is a reef or bar of rocks between Gooseberry Island and Fishing Island that is partially exposed at low tide. Several of the boats in our small flotilla were as yet unscarred and the owners wanted to keep them that way for as long as possible. Meri Kutsuu got her first scar on her maiden voyage so I wasn't as concerned. I've always felt that "Rocks Happen." We entered Chauncey Creek with an incoming flow to push us along. Almost no fresh water flows into Chauncey Creek. It floods and drains the salt marshes between Gerrish Island and the mainland. At low tide the creek is non navigable by even a kayak. The water flow is reduced to a trickle winding between rocks. At high tide the creek is nine feet deep and up to two hundred yards wide. The inside passage to Brave Boat Harbor is only four feet deep at high tide so the trip has to be timed carefully. It is in Chauncey Creek that people circumnavigating Gerrish Island make most of their navigation errors. After you pass under the Pocahontas Rd Bridge the creek widens out. At the Seapoint Rd Bridge it looks like the main channel turns right. You can even see a clearing that tells you that the ocean is only a bit over a quarter mile away. This is a trap for the unwary. If you turn right you will find yourself in a series of narrowing channels that dead end about two hundred yards from the ocean. By this time the channel is so narrow that you can't paddle and you have to get out of the boat and stand in mud to pick the boat up and turn it around. The correct course is to turn left and pass through a ten-foot wide culvert that passes under Seapoint Rd. At this point we hesitated. It looked like there was a small waterfall on the other side of the culvert and the current through the culvert was fast enough that anyone who passed through would have to portage across the road to get back before high tide. Mark was the brave one who volunteered to go first. We watched as he went through easily. The "falls" on the other side were more of a slope than a drop off. But Mark did warn us to watch for a rock on the left as we exited the culvert. I was the third person through. Just as I hit the calm water on the other side at a current induced speed faster than I would have been going under the circumstances I realized that both kayaks in front of me were broadside to me and stationary! Let me see, what do I want to do? I can ram number one, torpedo number two, or aim between them hitting the bow of one and the stern of the other and take them both out! A quick lean and brace turn served to get me around both of them and bleed off any extra speed. Now our group faced a bit of a dilemma. We had been told that the passage to Gerrish Island was impassible but we couldn't go back through the culvert for several hours. There are times when fate hands you a gift that is so appropriate and delivered with such perfect timing that it stuns you. This was one such time. Our gift came in the form of a friendly gentleman who came through the culvert right behind us in his own kayak. He was a local who had paddled this route many times before and he offered to guide us. We told him what the gatekeeper had said and he looked baffled. "How would he know? He isn't a kayaker!" (When I told the gatekeeper later that the passage was open I found out that he didn't know the way. He just borrowed a kayak and turned right at the culvert.) We soon found out that we were a bit early for the tide. We hadn't made two hundred yards when we ran out of water. The mud at the bottom of the channel is typical sediment. It is too thin to plow, too thick to drink (not that one would want to), and quite slimy. I was especially aware of the last part because I used my hands to "gorilla walk" my kayak forward about twenty feet before I could go no further. I needn't have bothered. After about twenty minutes the tide floated us all off. Now for a word to the wise. If you plan to circumnavigate Gerrish Island do your best to time your trip to arrive at the Seapoint Rd Bridge as close to high tide as possible. Due to the restriction of flow in the culvert the vast majority of the water flowing into and out of the salt marsh north of the culvert comes from Brave Boat Harbor. The two currents meet about one eighth of a mile from the culvert. Leaving as we did early in the tide we had to fight an incoming current for over a mile. If you reach Seapoint Rd at the peak of high tide you will have the most favorable currents all the way. With our newfound guide in the lead we headed up the channel to Brave Boat Harbor. The channel here meanders worse than a broken backed sidewinder. Very few of the straight stretches could hold more than two kayaks at a time and the curves were almost all tight 180-degree bends. Most of the turns were so tight that the bow of my Viviane would be in the current one side of the curve and the stern would be in the current on the other side. The current would be acting on the bow and stern in opposite directions trying to spin my kayak to the right just as I was trying to spin it to the left! I was riding sweep partly to keep an eye on the others and partly to keep them from seeing just how hard I was working on those corners! The Viviane is a great boat for what it was designed for, traveling long distance with a heavy load. But it was not designed to be a creek boat. A couple of those corners are a bit wider than they were before I went through, the bow of my Viviane sliced some of the shoreline off on the way by. The channel we were paddling in was about four feet deep. There was about two feet of water in the channel when we passed through the first time. This created an interesting effect. You could see out over the marsh from a snake's eye view. Looking across the marsh I saw nine heads with shoulders and flashing paddle blades. The two closest to me were heading east. The next two were headed west. The third pair was headed east again and so on. We continued on, pushing our trucks up the narrow switchback laden mountain road. After a while things started to get easier then the channel opened up and we found ourselves in Brave Boat Harbor. I once had a friend tell me that Brave Boat Harbor is the most beautiful harbor that he has ever been to. I have to agree. Brave Boat Harbor is nestled in the middle of the Rachel Carson National Wildlife Refuge; it is not a working harbor. Aside from a couple buildings that are grand fathered by being there before the refuge was formed and a series of old railroad bridge pilings that cut across the center of the harbor the land is unspoiled. The land surrounding the harbor must look much as it did to the explorers who named it and the Native Americans before them. One of the things that has always amazed me is how clear the seawater is around New England. I am more used to the lakes and rivers in New England. Most of the fresh water in New England is either slightly silted or has enough algae in it to cut down on visibility. Only in the mountains and in a couple of our larger lakes does the clarity approach that of the sea. The water in Brave Boat Harbor on an incoming tide is a joy to behold. We paddled through the pilings and over to the land on the south side of the entrance to Brave Boat Harbor to stop for lunch. Brave Boat Harbor got its name because of a shallow bar that runs across the entrance. If the weather is kicking up at all outside it is a Brave Boat indeed that goes in or out through the resulting surf. On this day the seas weren't kicking up all that much so there were few breakers at the entrance. I walked around to the ocean side of the point of land to check out the sea conditions. The conditions hadn't gotten any better so we decided to go back the same way we came in. After lunch our newfound guide took us on a tour around the harbor. He started by taking us to a secluded spot where, at high tide, you could sit in calm water and look over a spit of land at the waves breaking on the beach less than fifty feet away. This spot also gives you a perfect view of the outside of the entrance to Brave Boat harbor. You can check the conditions without getting out of your boat! I could tell you exactly how to get there but our guide has sworn us to secrecy. He doesn't want too many people spoiling his special place. You will have to ask one of the nine of us who went there directly if you want to know where this special place is. After the "scenic overlook" our guide showed us the rest of the harbor. He took us to the northernmost part of the harbor to see it from a different perspective. Our guide informed us that unless we wanted another long fight against a heavy current we would have to cut our visit to Brave Boat Harbor short. Not wanting to repeat the exercise we had before lunch we agreed to head back. At near high tide the switchbacks are much easier to take. There also seemed to be fewer of them. I was grateful for that. We entered just after high tide so the current, although against us for the first part, was sluggish. It seemed to take no time at all to get back to the Seapoint Rd Bridge. And then the skies opened up. We had paddled in a shower earlier in the day but it was no big deal. This one was a real frog-choker. The rain was so hard that the rain splashing off my arms and hitting me in the face was annoying me. I wear a wide brimmed hat when I paddle partly because I do not like rain in my face. The visibility was cut down to about one eighth of a mile. So what could possibly be running through my mind at a time like this? Was I wallowing in misery because of the rain? No. Aside from getting my face splashed I was warm and comfortable. What was running through my mind was an old Walt Disney's Winnie the Pooh episode. I think it was called "The Great Storm." One of the songs in this episode went; "And the rain rain rain came down down down…" But this Piglet was smart and wore a spray skirt! So I didn't have to start bailing. After a couple minutes the rain let up again. The rain hadn't slowed our progress at all as we headed down Chauncey Creek and into Pepperrell Cove. When we reached Pepperrell Cove we bid a fond farewell to our guide and newest friend. He was heading up the Piscataqua River and we were heading down. Due to the influence of Great Bay the tidal current in the Piscataqua River lag the tide by about an hour. The current was almost completely slack as we passed back under the fishing pier at Fort Foster. We headed around the rocks and through a small dumping surf onto the beach. Before loading up we all got together for group pictures. This also served me in finishing off the roll of film in my camera. Judging from all the smiling faces in the photos I would say that everyone had a good time. Along with a beautiful place to paddle I had a great group to paddle with. When anyone got nervous about the conditions they weren't pressured into continuing. The entire group took the concerns seriously and adapted the plans to suit them. Throughout the trip I saw tips being passed around on different strokes and techniques. The entire group pulled together in an attitude of teaching, learning, and having fun. I can hardly wait for our next trip. -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 1 09:44:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01306 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01301 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02507 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip250.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.250]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f61Ghii01311; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B3F52F2.5482E12F_at_pacifier.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 09:42:26 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] TR: Day on Mayne Bay, Vancouver Island, BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net After three days of near-constant humanity I was ready for some 'lone time ... so I betook myself home from camp the long way. I have paddled between Hand Island and Toquart Bay many times, almost always selecting the same, direct route, anxious to reach my truck with its promise of sweet eats, fresh water, and the elongated sigh that is the conclusion of a trip. This time I gunkholed the bay which forms the eastern side of my usual route. There were some old things, some new things. ---------------------- As I eased ashore on a small-pebble beach, stretching my hamstrings back to sanity, the small, quick mammal escaped out of the corner of my eye and eased into shoreside salal, its loping gait suggesting mink. Watching and waiting, my eventual reward was a full-on view of the biggest, fattest one ever! Healthy guy, working the wrack, not overly worried about me, but ambling away with purpose, nonetheless. This beach is one of two which look "campable," but is most likely private, if the odd sign indicating "5" suggests a minimum wake condition. Likely, because a hundred yards up-bay is a realtor's "For Sale" sign next to concrete rip rap marrying a wave-swept rock to the shoreline. The concrete "beach" locates a substantial float and a scruffy gravel road, the latter leading to a newish cedar-sided dwelling, rugged but luxurious. From a distance, it is plain the house followed a cut block of timber, the likely source of the income to build the house. I'd camp on those beaches, but not on the one half a mile away, for the movable jet-black rock spied from off shore. Those movable rocks are often bears, and this was a big one, ambling and overturning rocks. The bear was nonetheless a sufficient steward of the land, replacing rocks near where he found them. Others were not good keepers of the land, and had taken a little hook cove to its knees, running a double skid road into its gut, leveling the tip of the hook for a logging platform. Good protection for the log barge, and a great spot for the crane and loader. Wonder what it looked like before the bulldozer ... Further along, small islets dotted the opening to an elongated inlet, charted to have a big structure on a float, the probable source of runabouts skimming the surface on fishing excursions. I left them to their inlet, scattering small rockfish babies and pubescent ones as well, drifting over their backs above deep algae and scummy rocks. A biology lesson in miniature. Around the bend showed the first of three micro beaches, maintained by shell, strongly contrasting with dark rock. One: suspended cleanly above the average tide, as if on display. Another: decorated with odd debris, perhaps hydraulic fittings, pumps, hoses, and a long, mysterious, stainless stinger. The best beach: near lunch, atop a tent-sized rocky platform, which tomboloed the shell fragments to the mainland. From the platform, I could see boats skim back and forth to Toquart Bay campground, a mere mile distant. I was invisible, distant, in thought and sight. Around the corner another mile, and still on the agenda, but for another trip, Pipestem Inlet, steep-walled and garnished with nasty oysters. Too much island, too little time. Shove off and punch back to the take out, to re-enter the world of voices, dogs, campers, for-hire yak trippers, and chain saws. I welcomed them, for the contrast, and joked with the just-back paddlers as they jabbered about the sights they had seen on their day trip. Their fresh, shining faces shine brightly from their new adventure. My face is shining inwardly, renewed. Time to head home. Thank you, Mayne Bay. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 1 18:34:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11103 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11050 Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net (mail1.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.200]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07867 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d17.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.82]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f621YWA14227; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010701214207.10b748de_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:42:07 To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>, MSKC <MSKC_at_egroups.com> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trip report. Gerrish Island June 24. In-Reply-To: <3B3F4D4D.50704_at_gsinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 12:18 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Michael Noyes wrote: > I looked at Mark and his eyes were wide, his lip was curled and his >face was fried. His hands were frozen to the paddle like a tongue to a >sled in >the middle of a blizzard…. Oops! Wrong song! Mark stayed within >his >comfort zone throughout the trip. But I will buy lunch for the first >person >that can correctly identify the artist and song I just misquoted. CW McCall, Wolf Creek Pass (way out on the great divide) Yes, I have an eclectic taste in music, too. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 07:35:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05624 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05619 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20095 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.6.) id e.80.c7c5c12 (602) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80.c7c5c12.2871e061_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:34:09 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Native Crossing Prayer To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, To learn more about the Channel Islands here in Southern California, I've been reading books about the history of the islands and the native americans who lived there. As I was reading a book called California's Chumash Indians from the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, I was delighted to come across a prayer said by the Chumash before they attempted their crossings in tomol canoes with double bladed paddles. It went like this: Give room! Give room! Give room! Give room! Do not get discouraged! Do not get discouraged! Do not get discouraged! Help me to reach the place! Help me to reach the place! Help me to reach the place! Hurrah! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Needless to say, I was a little disappointed. I thought it would be cool to adopt a Chumash prayer to say myself before making the same Channel Island crossings that they did. However, this prayer seemed week. But then I realized that maybe a lot, a whole lot, was lost in the translation. The translation did seem stiff, and my guess was that the guy who did it never made any crossings to the Channel Islands. Having crossed to most of the Channel Islands by sea kayak, I took the privilege of editing the prayer to better give the meaning that I think the Chumash were trying to say. And so: Let me pass! Let me pass! Let me pass! Let me pass! Don't give up! Don't give up! Don't give up! Help me get there! Help me get there! Help me get there! HOOOAAA (military motivational style bark)! HOOOAAA! HOOOAAA! HOOOAAA! Then I even made my own Pirate Sea Kayaker prayer: Plastic, plastic, plastic! Plastic, plastic, plastic! Plastic, plastic, plastic! Let me make it without the humility of a rescue! Let me make it without the humility of a rescue! Let me make it without the humility of a rescue! Don't bother the captains by calling them on the radio in the shipping lanes! Don't bother the captains by calling them on the radio in the shipping lanes! Don't bother the captains by calling them on the radio in the shipping lanes! Roll or drown! Roll or drown! Roll or drown! Duane <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/index.html">Pirate Sea Kayaker</A> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 08:54:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29612 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29607 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13358 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id IAA18411; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010702100849.01c65bd0_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:53:55 -0400 To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip reports. Great Bay New Hampshire June 24. Manchester-By-The-Sea Mass. June 28. Merrimack River June 29. Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <3B3F4D4D.50704_at_gsinet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net After reading Michael Noyes' account of paddling in a nearby area the same day, I decided to post my accounts of paddling Great Bay, and tag on some recent paddling nearby in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. June 24 - Great Bay, New Hampshire. I timed my trip around high tide, launching from Adams Point (Durham NH) about 2 hours before the tide and expecting to return 2 hours after. The launch is only accessible due to mud 3 hours before and after high water, according to locals. The tide was hopping as I passed through narrow Furber Straight into Great Bay. Furber Straight is only a few hundred yards wide and about 3/8 mile long, and the entry into the straight is marked by twisting, turbulent currents. I would hate to be here at peak current. Passing quickly into the Bay, it opens up to a wonderful panorama. The left, or east, shore is mainly public land with very little development. It was formerly part of an Air Force base but is now a wildlife refuge. The area was once very polluted but is now home to many birds and lots of other wildlife. The western and southern shores have quite a lot of nature, but also a number of homes and docks and railroad tracks. About halfway down the Bay I notice a line of clouds diagonally across the Bay on my left and behind me, with quite a lot of rain. The line is not moving at all. Hope it is gone for my trip back. Paddling down the west shore, reaching the Lamprey River, I found myself glad I was in a boat with a 5 inch draft, because I could not make head or tail of the twisting path of red and green channel markers. It looks simple on the chart but finding the entry point to the whole mess would have been difficult. I was distressed to find the usual signs of a channel in use -- a trail of froth which usually means diesel fuel spilled in small quantities. The oily path snaked its way through the markers toward open water. Reaching the Squamscott River railroad bridge, I found a pretty strong current moving in so I stopped to scout it out. Two shirtless young men were fishing from the bridge as I pulled my wooden Pygmy up onto the riprap. Standing on the tracks and looking up river, another kayak came paddling against the current and out under the low trestle, which gave me a pretty good idea that the current wasn't too bad. I tried my cell phone but the signal is too weak here. Not far from here on my last trip I ate my lunch unaware that a green heron was only a few feet away from my bow. I guess herons don't use cell phones much. I passed into the tidal river with a good push from the current and paddled up a mile or so to about the noisiest bridge I have ever heard, a steel grating thing. A highway crew was working on a replacement bridge alongside it, with a thunderously loud pump sucking away water from the new pilings. So much for peace and quiet. Moving on, I passed under the bridge through nasty swirling currents, stronger than I expected. I finally found a quiet spot a few hundred yards further along, called home and headed back. I paddled back under the bridge, and, slowed by the strong current noticed a launch ramp I had not seen earlier just beyond the bridge. The construction crew was using most of the launch area for an impromptu laydown yard for their gear but the portapotties were a welcome site. Escaping that noisy place I headed back for the Bay. I kept to the shallows as a flotilla of motorboats came by, throwing up big wakes. As I reached the railroad bridge I had to laugh as the last of the boats sported an awning too high to clear the low bridge. As I paddled by he was dismantling the awning, an alternative to waiting an hour for the water to drop. In the Bay, the water skiiers were out, a good reason to keep far to the shallows. Oops, too far out, I realize, as motorboats are passing in shore of me. Passing the Lamprey River again, a few raindrops fall and some of the motorboats are making fast headway back to the docks. Moving past the opening to Lubberland Creek, the rain really starts and I take a brief break under someone's dock. I nervously look for signs of lightening, but none comes. No wind, it is warm, and the rain is now coming through the dock, so I move on. It eases a bit and I paddle onward. The water pools on my red nylon spray-skirt, and some is getting through. I lift my knees to urge the water to roll off, and edge my boat left and right, but it pools again as soon as I'm flat. Nearing the tiny Footman Islands, I hope for a clearing but the skies open without mercy. The land ahead disappears. The rain hits the sea so hard that salt water is splashing in my eyes and I realize that the last of the motorboats zipping by for their docks can't see me at all. I pull ashore on Big Footman, right under a "No Trespassing" sign, and sit on the cobbles. I pull out my raincoat, a bright yellow Gore-Tex which has become too small. It can't be that I've become too large, I think the medium coat must have shrunk. Oh yeah, got that in '85 when I was 170 pounds. That was 30 pounds ago. The rain eases a bit after about 15 minutes. I have to invert my boat to dump the water, as more than half an inch has found its way in. I hop in and paddle for the straight. Passing through the straight, the weather rapidly changes and is nearly clear as I reach the ramp. One woman is showing another how to paddle for the first time. A kayaker on shore looks on and asks if I'm the same guy he saw at Pawtuckaway Pond a few weeks back -- my wooden Pygmy Coho is a rare item out here. I load up my boat, strip off all my clothes, hoping nobody drives by for a moment, dump a bottle of fresh water over my head, towel off, dress, wring out my wet gear, and go. This was a good day. June 28 - Manchester-By-The-Sea, Mass. I met a couple of serious paddlers for a show and go from Manchester, on Salem Sound. One forecast was for 5-10 MPH wind from the north, another said 10-15 from the NW, both of which would make for relatively mild paddling here. Snaking out between beautiful yachts, sailboats and crude fishing boats, we finally reached the bay. The wind looked quite a lot stronger than 15 kt to me and after a short time crossing toward the nearest island, called Great Misery Island, I realized I was above my usual paddling level. I paddle a lot, but usually keep to protected waters. I signalled the others to stop at the island and they pointed out a very protected cove where I stopped, got a snack, and found a potty, while they went crashing through waves, coming back soaked after 20 minutes. I decided to rejoin the others and venture out -- I've done level 3 before and some level 4 that was supposed to be milder, and have always come out ok. We crossed straight across the bay from north to south, with the wind coming from the west. Few boats were out in our area. I'm used to keeping up a pretty good pace, averaging about 3.5 to 4 kt most of the time, but I was far outclassed by these guys. We tried to pull up onto a beach at Children's Island but found it reserved by ... children. A camp, I guess. We found an area of rocks and cobbles and pulled in there. For the first time I started to appreciate the boats that my fellow paddlers had, sleek 20" wide racing boats and 18 oz. paddles to go with them. Wow. Despite the rather gusty winds, as we left I proposed going back the long way, cutting past Marblehead and Beverley and Salem. There were little sailboat races going on with kids learning to sail in some of the harbors. The shape of the harbors gave a little protection against west winds, so the chop was milder here. The many sailboats, some tiny and some large, were a concern. Nearing the ugly five stacks of the powerplant near Salem, we turned around, and, rather than hug the shore and avoid the waves we stayed several hundred yards out in the whitecap zone. The wind was quartering from the rear, giving some surfable waves and a decent little push at times. Better than fighting the wind. One of the guys was getting hungry, so they pulled back into Great Misery Island rather than head in. A protected cove gave a place for about a dozen motorboats with people sunbathing on the decks. I called home, Mike ate a snack, and Leon practiced rolls. Each has his own priority. Leaving Great Misery, we again crossed the channel to Manchester. I don't know why this area is so rough, but it was again the roughest part of the trip, much more so than the wide open bay. Perhaps the tiny islet is enough to funnel the wind. I think we all had enough of the wind, because we hugged the near shore upon entering the harbor. The harbor seemed much larger after a long day of paddling. We reached the ramp just after 5 pm, a 4.5 hour paddle. Allowing 1 hour for several breaks we were actually paddling 3.5 hours and covered 13.3 NM. The NWS Boston site showed the winds averaged 9.5 kt all day and peaked at 23 kt in Beverley and 28 kt in Boston ... a little above Intellicast's 5-10 MPH prediction. Another great day, for me, though I was sorry to make the others wait for me so many times. June 29 - Merrimack River, NH. AMC Paddlers posted a short river paddle, which sounded better than going out alone for the day, so I joined a group in Concord. Luckily I determined at the very last moment that it was Concord, NH and not Concord, Mass. Some idiot decided 250 years ago there should be two towns on the same river, 60 miles apart, with the same name. A shuttle from Hannah's Paddles ($10) takes you 10 miles up to the launch site, near a penitentiary on NH route 3. Six boats joined the paddle, 3 kayaks (all sea kayaks), and 3 canoes, 8 people total. The river was very mellow. This stretch of river is not greatly different from when Thoreau paddled it in the 1800's. Only 2 homes and a church steeple can be seen from the water and no bridges cross the river except a derelict which serves as the halfway point. We saw a great blue heron, a green heron, a bald eagle, cormorants, a nest of orioles ... it was a pretty good bird day. I've never paddled two group paddles on back to back days. Never could two paddles be more different, one on windy, choppy bay waters and one on a mellow river. Oops, stay alert, that's a boulder you just hit. Altogether too soon, we are back at Hannah's Paddles. Time to go. 9 NM, 4 mellow hours. A short walk through the mud and a quick feeding for a half-dozen hungry mosquitos and the paddle is over. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 11:04:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06426 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06421 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08294 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63395 invoked by uid 3027); 2 Jul 2001 17:59:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:59:11 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:59:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: merijn wijnen <merijn_at_music.demon.nl> cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] VHF choice In-Reply-To: <E15E5wx-00079Z-00_at_post.mail.nl.demon.net> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107021353480.56477-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, I just bought a nice Garmin waterproof radio. I have carried them in my online store for awhile on the recommendation of others, but now that I'm using it I like it much better than my old West Marine clunker. On average tours and classes I've been carrying it in my chart case and can just push the buttons through the case and hear the weather or other stations quite clearly. I'm going to experiment talking to it that way soon to see if I can be heard. Andree On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, merijn wijnen wrote: > In the quest for safety (that, I now, can only be found in training) I > am going to purchase a VHF. In my neighbourhood I can obtain > only a few models: the Icom IC-M1V and the Simrad HT 50. Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence - http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ - Classes, Tours, Products http://www.viewit.com/ - New Look, New Programs for E-commerce and Design *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 11:10:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09139 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09134 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from internet.ntrs.com (gate.ntrs.com [192.77.161.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14494 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gate.ntrs.com id AA19641 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net); Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:05:27 -0500 Received: by gate.ntrs.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:05:27 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NORTHERN TRUST From: "Evan Dallas" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <86256A7D.00633516.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:03:47 -0700 Subject: [Paddlewise] Shrimping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi All We're planning a trip to the Broken islands around mid-July, where I heard it's possible to catch shrimp in places. IGNORANCE ALERT: The following is written by someone who knows absolutely nothing about shrimp (other than eating them after someone else cooked them)! 1. I've heard shrimping is done in very deep water -- does anyone know a good way to attempt this from a kayak? My first thought was to improvise some kind of light weight shimp trap attached to maybe 50 pound fishing line [figuring that much more than that (or even that) would be too much to try to haul in from a kayak] reeled in from the base end of a heavy-duty fishing rod. 2. Is shrimp harvesting permitted in the Broken islands that time of year? Do you need a license? I read some info in the Canadians fisheries web site that mentioned a ban on shimp trawling, but that appeared to leave open the possibility of using a pot. 3. Are shrimp subject to red tide other other contaminations? 4. Does anyone have any killer recipes for campside shrimp? Evan Woodinville Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 11:17:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12225 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12220 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf08bis.bellsouth.net (mail108.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.48]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21963 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.119.202]) by imf08bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010702181810.ERBR10148.imf08bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Evan Dallas'" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Shrimping Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:28:42 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <001e01c10324$d2904220$ca773dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <86256A7D.00633516.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Here in Florida people shrimp around the inlets using cast nets from John boats. The water is deep...12 feet in some places. It does appear seasonal. Cold water may be a different story. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 11:21:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14682 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14643 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from internet.ntrs.com (gate.ntrs.com [192.77.161.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25109 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gate.ntrs.com id AA25565 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net); Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:21:39 -0500 Received: by gate.ntrs.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:21:39 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NORTHERN TRUST From: "Evan Dallas" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <86256A7D.0064D416.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >>>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:34:16 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Toquart Bay Info (Vancouver Island, BC) 1. Now costs $CDN 10/night to camp there ($CDN 5/night with annual BC Forestry pass).<<<< Does the $Cdn 10 apply to camping in the park as well, or is that still $5? >>>>2. The official rule is that parking in the trad. kayakers' lot is supposed to cost, also, but the operator is "allowing" a CG slip to supplant the annual permit<<<< I assume "CG" here is for camp ground -- so, does this mean if you buy a camp ground permit for camping in Toquart for the first night that that will cover your parking for the duration of your trip? If you get there early enough to not have to camp at Toquart, do you still need to get a CG permit just to cover your parking (I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding you...)? Evan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 11:53:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23990 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23984 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16371 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 76607 invoked by uid 3027); 2 Jul 2001 18:51:36 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:51:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:51:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak club in Port Townsend Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107021451100.68938-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello, I've set aside Thursday at 7:30 pm at Sirens in Port Townsend as a time to get together with Olympic Penninsula people in the Port Townsend area who would like to have more of a club. I would envision more sea kayaking, whitewater trips, water polo and maybe slalom gates (I've always wanted to set up the national pool slalom course somewhere) as activities. I'm not sure if anyone on this list is around here, but... I see three options - rekindle the old club, start a new club, or become a penninsula arm of the WA Kayak club. Being on the board of the latter, I can take some sort of chapter proposal to a meeting in Seattle in September. Being a part of the latter would give as an existing infrastructure...I'm sure people would need to join. I think it's $35.00 the first time, and $25.00 after that. I'll bring some brochures with me with registration forms just in case. Following the Thursday meeting, or emails and phone calls, we can set aside one evening a month to meet. If you can't make it but are interested, call Andree at (360) 379-4182, or email kayak_at_onwatersports.com. Thanks, Andree Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence - http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ http://www.viewit.com/ - New Look, New Programs for E-commerce and Design *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 12:48:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09703 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09698 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25282 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip15.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.15]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f62JlLi26187; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B40CFB9.783FEDF0_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:47:05 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Toquart Bay Camping and Parking References: <86256A7D.0064D416.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Evan Dallas wrote: > From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > 1. Now costs $CDN 10/night to camp there ($CDN 5/night with annual BC Forestry > pass).<<<< > Does the $Cdn 10 apply to camping in the park as well, or is that still $5? No. Parks Canada and BC Forestry are different entities. The fee within the Broken Group is $CDN5/person/night. The fee at Toquart is $CDN10/night/vehicle. > >>>>2. The official rule is that parking in the trad. kayakers' lot is supposed > to cost, also, but the operator is "allowing" a CG slip to supplant the annual > permit<<<< > I assume "CG" here is for camp ground -- so, does this mean if you buy a camp > ground permit for camping in Toquart for the first night that that will cover > your parking for the duration of your trip? Yes, although it is not supposed to be enough. The official policy is to require the annual permit, assuming I understood the attendant correctly > If you get there early enough to > not have to camp at Toquart, do you still need to get a CG permit just to cover > your parking? I believe so, although enforcement seems problematical. The operator indicated this business is the result of differences between Parks Canada and BC Forestry. As always, YMMV. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 12:59:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12768 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12762 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02518 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip15.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.15]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f62Jwdi26719; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B40D25F.7A606F9E_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:58:23 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Shrimping References: <86256A7D.00633516.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Evan Dallas wrote: > > Hi All > > We're planning a trip to the Broken islands around mid-July, where I heard it's > possible to catch shrimp in places. > 1. I've heard shrimping is done in very deep water -- does anyone know a good > way to attempt this from a kayak? My first thought was to improvise some kind > of light weight shimp trap attached to maybe 50 pound fishing line [figuring > that much more than that (or even that) would be too much to try to haul in from > a kayak] reeled in from the base end of a heavy-duty fishing rod. > 2. Is shrimp harvesting permitted in the Broken islands that time of year? Do > you need a license? I read some info in the Canadians fisheries web site that > mentioned a ban on shimp trawling, but that appeared to leave open the > possibility of using a pot. > 3. Are shrimp subject to red tide other other contaminations? > 4. Does anyone have any killer recipes for campside shrimp? Evan, some of this is based on hearsay gleaned dockside, so I'd verify my statements when you get there. 1. Takes a heavy-duty rig, including line. Gotta go deep, normally in excess of 150 feet. Most sports use a 5 gallon bucket equipped with a mesh funnel (to keep the prawns in) with about 20 lbs of weight, 1/4-3/8 inch D polypro line, and two substantial floats/pot. 50 lb test fishing line would not last. Note: to go that deep, you will have to place these traps in the middle of the larger channels, hence you will be subject to heavy swell and wind, depending ... 2. Prawns are harvestable right now. Per Parks Canada "suggestion," all fishing is discouraged within the Park boundary, but not prohibited. You definitely need a license. As you pass through Port Alberni, stop at the fishing tackle place at the stoplighted "T" where you turn right to go to Toquart Bay. They know their stuff. 3. Shrimp are at depth. PSP organisms are surface-only. 4. Marinate in oil/dill/balsamic vinegar after heading the shrimp. Put on skewers and BBQ about 1-2 minutes/side until the shell turns pink. [This part is not based on hearsay.] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR shrimp-eater *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 13:30:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21901 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21896 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23273 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17159 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B40DA86.66691E76_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:33:10 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Found on shore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was hiking around the NE Idaho mountains just west of Yellowstone last week and came upon this sad and disturbing sight. Ralphs, don't go here without a loved one nearby for support. http://rip.tsars.uga.edu/homepage/scramer/boats.html -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 13:43:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27443 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27438 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4.america.net (atl4.america.net [199.170.121.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05214 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max1-7.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.8]) by atl4.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07057; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B40DE4F.3070800_at_gsinet.net> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:49:19 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> CC: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>, MSKC <MSKC_at_egroups.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trip report. Gerrish Island June 24. References: <3.0.6.16.20010701214207.10b748de_at_pop.dmci.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Wes Boyd wrote: > At 12:18 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Michael Noyes wrote: > >> I looked at Mark and his eyes were wide, his lip was curled and his >> face was fried. His hands were frozen to the paddle like a tongue to a >> sled in >> the middle of a blizzard... Oops! Wrong song! Mark stayed within >> his >> comfort zone throughout the trip. But I will buy lunch for the first >> person >> that can correctly identify the artist and song I just misquoted. > > > CW McCall, Wolf Creek Pass (way out on the great divide) > > Yes, I have an eclectic taste in music, too. > > -- Wes > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > We have a winner! Now all I have to do is figure out how to get to where Wes lives to buy him lunch! Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 14:03:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03417 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03407 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19291 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.244.103.246.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.103.246]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA09092; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001e01c1033a$a90a5e20$f667f4d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Steve Cramer" <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B40DA86.66691E76_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Found on shore Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:05:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve, Your find reminds me of something I wrote in my newsletter in January 1996: BEGIN ARTICLE Planet Of The Apes? Was This A Mirage or Miracle? To start a new year and a new design for the newsletter (you're looking at it) I would like to share a recent incident that says a lot about the purposes of this publication and my role. It was a cold winter day and I was on a 14-mile solo hike along the upper and lower parts of the Palisades across from northern New York City. For those who don't know the area, the Palisades is a 400-foot high, 12-mile stretch of igneous rock cliffs bordering the Hudson River's west bank. This park boasts some of the earliest trails in the US dating back to the turn of the century when an effort by women's clubs saved this natural treasure from a ravenous quarrying industry. I had started off late . . . procrastination. And, two-thirds of the way into the hike on the Shore Path trail, the day was getting that wonderful lighting effect that precedes dusk. I was tired and concerned about having to get back up the cliffs in the dark. As I turned a bend created by the river's many shallow coves, I stumbled on a startling scene. It was like the end frames from Planet Of The Apes when the Charleston Heston character unexpectedly discovers a half buried Statue of Liberty on the beach. Something on the sandy beach just ahead of me was brilliantly lit by the late-day glow almost as if by a spotlight. I couldn't figure out what it was since the object was some 30 yards away. As I got closer, it suddenly became clearer. I couldn't believe my eyes-part of frame from a wooden folding kayak! Was I hallucinating? No. It was half of a keelboard. I stepped over some rocks to study its origins. Slowly the clues started emerging. It was part of a rear half; easy to tell since a still-attached rib was faintly marked #7. The wood was in incredibly fine shape. By the width and cut of the rib, and the fittings, I figured the frame was from an old Folbot. And, exciting for me, it had been extensively modified! For example, someone had sanded the top of the rib to bevel its edge. Old Folbots were often difficult to assemble because they lacked sponsons. The owner's clever, makeshift remedy would ease inserting the frame into the skin. I could see clearly that the Folbot had been modified for sailing. A sailing pulley remained attached to the floorboard for a sheeting point; an ingenious home-made attachment that used the backplate of a electrical juncture box to attach the pulley to the floorboard. When I picked up the frame, the hinges fell apart suggesting to me that it had been floating for some time. The screw holes had weakened. My heart was beating fast; I wanted to take all this wonderful discovery with me but thought better of this. I still had about 5 miles to go and it was getting quite late, guaranteeing that I would be in total darkness as I climbed the cliffs. Besides, it was much too much to carry, and so I decided to take just some parts. Luckily I had my trusty Leatherman tool with me, the one with the Klepper logo (sorry, Folbot!). I freed the rib as a souvenir and tied it to my daypack; I also stripped off some of the fittings from the keelboard as well as the sailing pulley. My hike, indeed, ended in pitch darkness. But my emergency flashlight and the beam on my face were more than enough illumination to get me safely out of the park. One of those mysteries you run across in life at times. What was the story behind the frame being there?: -- Had it blown off some dock during one of our November storms? -- Did somebody, finding difficulty getting a replacement skin (no longer being made), decide to throw the frame into the river; a Viking burial without the fire? -- More to the point, is any one missing part of a boat from a recent trip! END ARTICLE Steve Cramer wrote: > I was hiking around the NE Idaho mountains just west of Yellowstone last > week and came upon this sad and disturbing sight. Ralphs, don't go here > without a loved one nearby for support. > > http://rip.tsars.uga.edu/homepage/scramer/boats.html Oh, another note: Someone mentioned once paddling near Liberty Island where the Statue of Liberty stands and seeing a Klepper frame washed up onto the tiny rocky beach behind it. Now that brings Planet of the Apes full cycle, doesn't it! :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 14:11:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05647 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05606 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (www02.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24163 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.35.77]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:10:54 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: <mje_at_spamcop.net> Cc: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Short Wave Radio for weather Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:08:01 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c1033b$14414460$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2001 21:10:54.0636 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B1A4EC0:01C1033B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Michael wrote: >I hadn't looked tha the R2 in a while; at the current price of around >$150 or so, it's a very attractive package for a travel radio. About the >only fault I can find in it is that it doesn't have modes for listening >to SSB or CW. Michael, Thanks for the information, particularly regarding the aerial adaptor. In Australia we don't have an equivalent to the NOAA system for weather reports although we do have a system of coastguard and repeater stations. Hence my interest in a short wave radio that can easily be stowed away. Regarding the SSB and CW there is another model, IC-R10 at about twice the price, which covers am/fm/wfm/usb/lsb/cw. And I have occasionally heard weather reports being transmitted via SSB (on a much bigger, cheaper radio). All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 14:21:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08805 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08770 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01308 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19944 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA16426 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00886 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:58:27 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14827 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.10f.1fae50e (5711) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web27.aolmail.aol.com (web27.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.3]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID44-0702165811; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:58:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:58:11 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Found on shore To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <10f.1fae50e.28723a63_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve Cramer wrote: I was hiking around the NE Idaho mountains just west of Yellowstone last week and came upon this sad and disturbing sight. Ralphs, don't go here without a loved one nearby for support. http://rip.tsars.uga.edu/homepage/scramer/boats.html Ralph Hoehn: (They just now managed to restart my heart. I'll write more once I've come out of intensive care. I'm dictating this to a "loved one" by blinking my eyes at a chart with the letters of the alphabet ...) The style of the deck of the left boat looks fairly dated and given the state of deterioration of the right boat, both have been there for some time. What was all the debris in those hulls? Were they weighted down deliberately? Did you investigate them at all? Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 16:06:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10501 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10496 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (asteroid.pacifier.com [199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16914 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip89.ast7.pacifier.com [66.43.11.89]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f62N5vM24677; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B40FE46.11F0932A_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:05:42 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Found on shore References: <10f.1fae50e.28723a63_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net FoldingBoats_at_aol.com wrote: > > Steve Cramer wrote: I was hiking around the NE Idaho mountains just west of Yellowstone last week and came upon this sad and disturbing sight. Ralphs, don't go here without a loved one nearby for support. > > http://rip.tsars.uga.edu/homepage/scramer/boats.html > > Ralph Hoehn: [snip] > The style of the deck of the left boat looks fairly dated and given the state of deterioration of the right boat, both have been there for some time. What was all the debris in those hulls? Were they weighted down deliberately? Did you investigate them at all? >> Left one resembles a Folbot Super, circa 19?? I think. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 18:48:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29253 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29248 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net (mail1.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.200]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03938 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d21.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.86]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f631kQm63443; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010702215352.46f722c0_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 21:53:52 To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trip report. Gerrish Island June 24. Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <3B40DE4F.3070800_at_gsinet.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20010701214207.10b748de_at_pop.dmci.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:49 PM 7/2/01 -0400, Michael Noyes wrote: >> >We have a winner! >Now all I have to do is figure out how to get to where Wes lives to buy >him lunch! Well, with luck we'll find ourselves paddling somewhere around the same place sometime in the next few years. Hmmmmm . . . Georgian Bay . . . Saguenay River . . . -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 19:01:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04796 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04791 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13527 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.76.195.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.76.195]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA15371; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c10364$634d2e60$c34cf6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <10f.1fae50e.28723a63_at_aol.com> <3B40FE46.11F0932A_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Found on shore Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:03:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > Left one resembles a Folbot Super, circa 19?? I think. Yes, they are definitely Folbots. That white stripe along the top ridge of the deck is a telltale on this. One of them resembles the Pisces strangely enough which had removable deck panels. That boat on the left as you look at them may not have a torn deck but rather the inboard ends of the removable deck. The white plastic line along where the deck and hull meet makes me thing it might be one. But the photos make it hard to tell. The fact that the other one has the decks removed means it is either a Pisces or a Super whose cotton deck has rotted well before the hull has given up the ghost. It is always amazing how these old foldables turn up such as the one someone saw up in the NY Catskills serving a second life as a large 17 foot long planter on a lawn! :-) ralph diaz (who being older and more worldly than the other ralph isn't quite as traumatized into cardiac arrest as he has been by the sight of these derelict foldables. -)) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 19:07:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05344 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05339 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16648 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29315 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16529 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22665 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f3.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19594 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:22:40 -0700 Received: from 63.61.122.218 by pv0fd.pav0.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 01:22:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.61.122.218] From: "James Tibensky" <jtibensky_at_msn.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] PaddleWise Double Kayaks Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 20:22:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F3gwHKT2qeSqk0qcITz00004143_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2001 01:22:40.0284 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6C545C0:01C1035E] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One last thing about surfing in a double: Many times in Lake Michigan we got the rudder to "sing", we went so fast. The whole boat picked up the vibrationsof the rudder and the whole boat resonated with a beautiful sound. Very ethereal! Jim Tibensky ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 20:07:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23320 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23315 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24332 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c1297934a ([24.17.250.176]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010703030706.BJOT13982.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_c1297934a> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:07:06 -0700 Message-ID: <00b901c1036d$f0196800$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> Reply-To: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> From: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B3F52F2.5482E12F_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:12:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Law abiding outdoorspeople: Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used (camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? I can imagine the rationale for such a rule. If you can cite me to CFR provisions on hazardous materials, that's a bonus. Does the prohibition apply no matter how thoroughly the bottles are cleaned, and whether they are transported uncapped? Do the airlines enforce the rule? . . . vigorously? I am asking this on behalf of a friend (honest) who tells me he is careful and the alleged rule is like a law against jaywalking and I would like to know the risks before how hard I try to persuade him to change his ways. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 21:30:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18517 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18479 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16244 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com ([65.6.17.54]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010703043029.FGBQ22728.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_home.com> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:30:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3B414A0A.5643C0C1_at_home.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:28:58 -0500 From: Stephen King <steveking2000_at_home.com> Organization: _at_Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] shortwave References: <200107021555.IAA29678_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I think you should add to the advice regarding radio reception range. Range is not so simple as "transmitted power and antenna". The transmitted frequency is also important. No matter how good the antenna on either end, the range of NOAA Weather VHF radio broadcasts is restricted, essentially, to line of sight. Other very low frequency and short-wave broadcasts of weather overcome the line of sight restriction but have other limitations such as propagation, the reflection of radio waves off the upper atmosphere, which is also a frequency dependent issue, not to mention less localized data and forecasting. The long and short of it is that depending upon where you are and where the transmitter is located, you may or may not have access to a particular radio weather broadcast. For maximum chance of having access to broadcast weather information no matter where you are located a VLF to VHF general coverage receiver seems to me to be the best bet. Of course if you paddle only in areas where VHF broadcasts are available, a marine hand-held offers other uses in addition to VHF weather reception. Here is a web site that seems to have a pretty complete listing of both short-wave, vhf, and internet weather sources. A google search should turn up many similar pages. Steve King > > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:39:04 -0400 > From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> SNIP > There's really no such thing as a "short range" receiver; range is more > a function of transmitted power and antenna. You can indeed add an > outboard antenna to the R2, but you'll need an ICOM supplied adapted > (the AD-925MA antenna connector adapter) to connect a BNC connector. To > really take advantage of this radio you *need* an outboard antenna. SNIP > - -- mike > ------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 2 23:17:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20591 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20586 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23069 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01796 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16607 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14159 Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:52:32 -0700 (PDT) From: miles2go_at_konnections.net Received: from sql00 (ip185-25.konnections.com [207.173.185.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09007 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles2go (209.63.122.244) by SQL00 (MailMax 4. 7. 0. 8) with ESMTP id 96564156 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:54:16 -0600 MDT Message-ID: <000b01c10383$fc4ba6e0$f47a3fd1_at_konnections.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 23:49:50 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net First off let me say hello from Utah. We're possibly the only UT based tourers on the list and surely the only ones on the list from Eden. (location of the 2002 Olympic Downhill Skiing venue, North of SLC) We are just getting into Kayak touring from bicycle touring. Few that tour by bicycle carry a full sized 35mm camera and I was wondering if this is also true among Kayakers. I have a brand new Nikon F100 but I'm not sure I want to subject it to such treatment. I also have two high quality point & shoot cameras (Olympus Stylus Epic 35mm and Fuji DL Super Mini 28-56mm). Are cameras such as these more the norm? I am aware that there are waterproof cameras and waterproof pouches. I have also looked through the archives on the PaddleWise site. I didn't see anything addressing what cameras the photo inclined carry. Cheers, Ron and Nancy Wheeler Eden, Utah *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 05:11:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08813 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08758 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01486 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id FAA04893; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010703080147.01c59de0_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:10:48 -0400 To: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <00b901c1036d$f0196800$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> References: <3B3F52F2.5482E12F_at_pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Here is the United Air Lines page regarding restricted articles. CFR 172.101 Appendix A & CFR 175. Hazardous materials Articles listed in the Department of Transportation's Hazardous Material Regulations and/or the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations are restricted. These will only be accepted subject to advance arrangements and compliance with regulations. For safety reasons, dangerous goods may not be packed in checked or carry-on baggage or taken on board with you. Restricted articles include but are not limited to: ·Acid ·Lighter fluid ·Explosives ·Flammable solids/liquids ·Oxidizing materials ·Corrosive materials ·Compressed gases ·Poisons ·Etiologic agents ·Radioactive materials ·Irritating or incapacitating sprays ·Mercury ·Noxious materials ·Briefcases and attaché cases with installed alarm devices My understanding is that the slightest detectable trace of the banned substance is sufficient to cause them to reject the goods. Thankfully, I understand they are quite strict in detection & enforcement. (Now, if they would only ban cell phones.) -jerry. At 10:12 PM 7/2/2001 -0500, tfj wrote: >Law abiding outdoorspeople: > >Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used >(camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? I can imagine the rationale >for such a rule. If you can cite me to CFR provisions on hazardous >materials, that's a bonus. Does the prohibition apply no matter how >thoroughly the bottles are cleaned, and whether they are transported >uncapped? Do the airlines enforce the rule? . . . vigorously? I am asking >this on behalf of a friend (honest) who tells me he is careful and the >alleged rule is like a law against jaywalking and I would like to know the >risks before how hard I try to persuade him to change his ways. > >Tom Joyce > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:05:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA25136 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25131 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yogi.ida.net (relay2.ida.net [204.228.203.94]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05822 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.141.181.184] by yogi.gemstate.net (NTMail 6.03.0009/NU4794.00.803603cf) with ESMTP id ollhnaaa for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:06:44 -0600 Message-ID: <004901c103c0$eec6e1a0$b5a58dd0_at_dell> From: "Looze, John & Donna" <looze_at_gemstate.net> To: <miles2go_at_konnections.net>, "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <000b01c10383$fc4ba6e0$f47a3fd1_at_konnections.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:05:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ron; Here are some sites for camera cases. You can also try "Otter Boxes", for smaller cases. http://www.cases4less.com/index.html http://www.uwkinetics.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/uwk/main.d2w/report JKL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:36:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04585 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04579 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) From: gpwecho_at_juno.com Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24782 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"+0Z68/pdfoWeDhU79lWUUDSmgfUGxEAJfq7nwObjFSburftiBKGQJg=="> Received: (from gpwecho_at_juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F9E6U74M; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:34:46 EDT To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:29:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Shrimping Message-ID: <20010703.082957.-934319.0.gpwecho_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Evan... I can cook'em, I can definitely eat'em, but catching them is best left to the shrimpboats, in my opinion. For camp cooking my favorite is shrimp embrochette'...shell out raw shrimp, then wrap each one in a small bit of bacon strip, skewer them up with some chunk-cut mixed veggies and have a nice little grilling fire ready. Bast regularly with some strong garlic butter. Cooking won't take long, you don't want to dry the shrimp out.....Mmmmmmm! ...adieu ...Peyton (Louisiana) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:39:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04775 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04770 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25083 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17458 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B41CBBF.887E2DDC_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:42:23 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Found on shore References: <10f.1fae50e.28723a63_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net FoldingBoats_at_aol.com wrote: > > http://rip.tsars.uga.edu/homepage/scramer/boats.html > > Ralph Hoehn: (They just now managed to restart my heart....) > > The style of the deck of the left boat looks fairly dated and given the state of deterioration of the right boat, both have been there for some time. What was all the debris in those hulls? Were they weighted down deliberately? Did you investigate them at all? I did not do any investigation, but they looked like Folboats to me. The one on the right had aluminum longerons and a sectioned, folding keel board. There was nothing in them indicating that they had been weighted down; most of the debris you can see was either boat structure or fallen leaves and branches. That area gets about 4m of snow annually, which can't have been good for them. The area I found them was near a cabin built ~1910, which has been inhabited only occasionally over the last several years. If you want to see more of the area where they were found, go to http://www.shutterfly.com/my/os.jsp?i=67b0de21b3149bb46586 The boats were next to that funny wooden structure on the right in picture 4. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:40:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04795 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04790 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:39:57 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25153 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id t.c8.1700e3e5 (7543); Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c8.1700e3e5.2873251c_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:39:40 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles To: tfj4_at_home.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Technically, 49 CFR part 175 applies, but it won't do you a lot of good. For some better info, see <http://www.aviation.fs.fed.us/library/hazmat.htm> where you'll see some definitions of what "purging" fuel tanks is all about, and also some refs to "Sigg tanks" for camping fuel. As a pilot and a safety officer, I'm very hesitant to offer any sort of encouragement to carriage of any fuel containers on any aircraft, purged or not, because I've had to work with the results of improperly and/or illegally carried fuel products in the past, and it ain't pretty. However, if done safely and openly within the ICAO and CFR provisions, it's legal. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:45:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07512 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07507 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.pace.edu (ntutil.pace.edu [205.232.111.9]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00830 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from caleb.law.pace.edu by smtp.pace.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.A8A9F5A2_at_smtp.pace.edu>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 9:45:31 -0400 Received: by caleb.law.pace.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <N9J4ZC6Q>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:54:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B8A6F08ACE2D3118C310090277A4A960241C96F_at_caleb.law.pace.edu > From: "Coplan, Karl" <KCoplan_at_law.pace.edu> To: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:54:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My experience is that the airlines are getting stricter and stricter about enforcing the "no trace" rule. It is probably a good thing. You dont want to be on the plane that goes down because a fuel bottle shifted on take off, sonething made a spark, and a fire or explosion started. My solution: I now travel either with a solid fuels (Sierra Zip) stove that burns twigs and smal chunks of wood or pine cones (my favorite stove now anyway). For places that consider the Sierra Zip stove a violation of "no campfire" rules, I recently acquired a MSR "pocket rocket" propane stove. You just have to arrange to be able to buy and discard the propane bottles wherever you are going (ironically, you can mail order these fuel bottles and ship them to your destination, presumeably not by air, though). --Karl Coplan -----Original Message----- From: tfj [mailto:tfj4_at_home.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:12 PM To: kcoplan_at_law.pace.edu Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Law abiding outdoorspeople: Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used (camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? I can imagine the rationale for such a rule. If you can cite me to CFR provisions on hazardous materials, that's a bonus. Does the prohibition apply no matter how thoroughly the bottles are cleaned, and whether they are transported uncapped? Do the airlines enforce the rule? . . . vigorously? I am asking this on behalf of a friend (honest) who tells me he is careful and the alleged rule is like a law against jaywalking and I would like to know the risks before how hard I try to persuade him to change his ways. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:46:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07687 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07682 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf17bis.bellsouth.net (mail317.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.177]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01070 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.112.182]) by imf17bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010703134728.GJGQ20225.imf17bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:47:28 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:58:33 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <001801c103c8$3f9b7620$5c753dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010703080147.01c59de0_at_diablo.cisco.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was on my way to a SCUBA show in Asia with some self inflating rescue devices. I hand carried the samples just in case. When I changed planes in Tokyo, JAL refused to let me bring the CO2 inflators. I tried to explain that there is one on every lifejacket under every seat but that didn't help. Finally, I discovered the CO2 cartridges were made in Japan, and when I pointed this out, they let me take them on board. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 06:59:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10913 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10908 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com (eamail1-out.unisys.com [192.61.61.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07809 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-ea-gtwy-4.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-4.ea.unisys.com [192.61.146.122]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02027 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:58:48 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-4.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <319ZKSK2>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:59:20 -0500 Message-ID: <D5AB0A4390F1D111A7DB00104B943DD605AB2F3F_at_US-EA-EXCH-2.ea.un isys.com> From: "Dickson, Dana A." <dana.dickson_at_unisys.com> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:59:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Yes they enforce the rules vigorously. Here are a couple of recent examples of enforcement actions. FAA PROPOSES $82,500 PENALTY FOR SHIPMENT OF DENATURED ALCOHOL The FAA has proposed to assess an $82,500 civil penalty against J&M Products Corp. of Little Rock, Ark., for allegedly violating Department of Transportation hazardous materials regulations. FAA PROPOSES $60,000 PENALTY FOR COOLER SENT AS CHECKED BAGGAGE The FAA has proposed to assess a $60,000 civil penalty against Overspray Removal Systems Corp. of La Mirada Calif., for allegedly violating Department of Transportation hazardous materials regulations. Even if your friend does not in the end pay these kind of fines, the defense costs are likely to exceed the savings. Check with the specific airline to see if a cleaned bottle or cleaned stove can be transported. When there was an exhaustive discussion of this on the backpacking usenet a couple of years ago, what individual airlines would allow appeared to be variable. The bottom line for the captain of the aircraft is that he is personally responsible for the safety of the passengers and crew. I can understand why an aircraft captain or the airline would be very conservative in their tolerance of fuel on the aircraft. Dana Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:12:05 -0500 From: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Law abiding outdoorspeople: Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used (camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? I can imagine the rationale for such a rule. If you can cite me to CFR provisions on hazardous materials, that's a bonus. Does the prohibition apply no matter how thoroughly the bottles are cleaned, and whether they are transported uncapped? Do the airlines enforce the rule? . . . vigorously? I am asking this on behalf of a friend (honest) who tells me he is careful and the alleged rule is like a law against jaywalking and I would like to know the risks before how hard I try to persuade him to change his ways. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 07:00:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11921 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11883 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09285 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-242-227.s227.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.242.227] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #2) id 15HQj8-0006jC-00 ; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: <3B41D0A3.DC482FB6_at_erols.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:03:15 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: miles2go_at_konnections.net CC: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not References: <000b01c10383$fc4ba6e0$f47a3fd1_at_konnections.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net miles2go_at_konnections.net wrote: > > First off let me say hello from Utah. We're possibly the only UT based > tourers on the list and surely the only ones on the list from Eden. > (location of the 2002 Olympic Downhill Skiing venue, North of SLC) And I am probably the only one from the list from Crosswicks NJ... > I am aware that there are waterproof cameras and waterproof pouches. I have > also looked through the archives on the PaddleWise site. I didn't see > anything addressing what cameras the photo inclined carry. I have been very happy with my Canon s100 digital w/ waterproof case, mostly for it's portability (I have it with me always, bike, yak, foot, truck, work and play) and for it's rather short shutter lag (typical time lag in digital + auto focus cameras between depressing the shutter and getting the exposure). YOu can see it's results, all undoctored except for downsampling on the /diary website below- any photo since January this year when I received the camera. Digital has been VERY useful. > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 07:49:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26306 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26301 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:49:05 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09630 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id 6.c9.121c277d (4262); Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c9.121c277d.28733548_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:48:40 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles To: KCoplan_at_law.pace.edu, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/3/2001 9:46:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, KCoplan_at_law.pace.edu writes: > You just have to arrange to be able to buy and discard the propane bottles > wherever you are going (ironically, you can mail order these fuel bottles > and ship them to your destination, presumeably not by air, though). > Actually, you can ship a lot of dg stuff by air --- dg is "dangerous goods". You just have to ship it in the appropriate containers and with the correct labels attached, and have the right paperwork with the shipment. I used to have to transfer lithium batteries around the world: it's one hulluva hassle, but it can be done. Just has to be done by the book --- for everyone's safety. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 08:00:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29869 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29829 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mth.pdx.edu (mth.pdx.edu [131.252.142.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16674 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MTH_DOM-Message_Server by mth.pdx.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:00:54 -0700 Message-Id: <sb417bb6.039_at_mth.pdx.edu> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.4 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:00:42 -0700 From: "BRAD" <BRAD_at_mth.pdx.edu> To: <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Garden Point Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id IAA29836 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Two years ago, there were bear warning signs posted at Garden Point campsite, on the way to Esperanza Inlet, B.C. The signs said "don't camp here unless you want to be run off in the middle of the night by the marauding bear". Does anyone know the current status of Garden Point? Is the "bad bear" still around? Is it safe to camp there yet? Brad Crain Bradford R. Crain Dept. of Mathematical Sciences Portland State Univ. 724 SW Harrison St. 334 Neuberger Hall Portland, Or. 97201 e-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu phone: 503.725.3127 fax: 503.725.3661 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 09:33:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29390 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29385 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21214 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25935 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16801 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10402 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05684 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 9C0E79B2C; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.91), claiming to be "firewall2" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdA12308; Tue Jul 3 08:18:45 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6PQPH>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:17:48 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F978_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'miles2go_at_konnections.net'" <miles2go_at_konnections.net>, "'PaddleWise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:17:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > First off let me say hello from Utah. We're possibly the only UT based > tourers on the list and surely the only ones on the list from Eden. > (location of the 2002 Olympic Downhill Skiing venue, North of SLC) snips. Ron/Nancy, welcome. Regarding your two statements above.... not so fast, slugger! You have some great company in Utah in the Park City area! Not I, though. But it was my pleasure to meet a P'Wiser while I was vacationing in that area this past February. He's involved in touring, whitewater, and the usual SLC area winter activities. A second P'Wiser intended to move to the SLC area earlier this year... don't know if he ever did or not. In any event, it's not my place to devulge names and E-Mail addresses without prior permission, so I'll leave it to them to contact you if they are still on the list. If they are not, just know that there are (were) P'Wisers in the area, so keep your eyes and ears open for them. Enjoy the list! Speaking from personal experience, you'll learn a ton of things here! Wish I had a buck for everything I learned.... I'd be able to buy a nice new glass boat! Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 09:34:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29570 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29564 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22262 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25962 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16808 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19253 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from khntsent02.clayelectric.com (mail-gw.clayelectric.com [209.208.14.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA23721 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 05:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: FROM dp29m.yoda.fdt.net BY khntsent02.clayelectric.com ; Tue Jul 03 08:47:08 2001 -0400 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010703083819.00a6ff08_at_mail.fdt.net> X-Sender: dherring_at_mail.fdt.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:47:09 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Don Herring <dherring_at_yoda.fdt.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Fwd: pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I got some high end photo gear that I would not think of taking on my 'yak. Having said that, I'm leaning towards the Pentax IQZoom 105 WR. Weather Resistant (not afraid of splashes, could probably survive a dunking), small, compact and does a good job for a point and shoot. HTH Don *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 09:42:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02505 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02470 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26346 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27400 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16824 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10564 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f70.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.70]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07217 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:55:27 -0700 Received: from 208.193.203.176 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:55:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [208.193.203.176] From: "Jeanne Dulaney-Sorochak" <jdsorochak_at_hotmail.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:55:26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F70sMjQHtMFaukyCKDk0001d67a_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jul 2001 13:55:27.0110 (UTC) FILETIME=[D04BFA60:01C103C7] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Tom, Last year, on a trip to Alaska, a woman at the counter in Seattle figured out we were headed for a camping trip. She searched our luggage and confiscated... butane lighters, strike-anywhere matches, regular matches, solid fuel for handwarmers. Stoves and fuel bottles were checked with a sniff test and one that didn't pass was confiscated. Fortunately, one stove was new and one was scrupulously cleaned. If they had realized we had already flown from Boston that way, we could have been liable for fines of $10,000 PER ITEM! Tell your firend to do himself a favor - ship the items to a Post Office, correctly marked, c/o General Delivery or buy them at the destination...follow the laws and don't risk bringing down himself and a plane full of people! Jeanne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 09:53:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05748 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05742 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06381 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28944 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16863 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14241 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17574 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id t.be.16cde9b1 (3967); Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <be.16cde9b1.287341f5_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:42:45 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles To: tfj4_at_home.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-02 23:10:30 EDT, tfj4_at_home.com writes: << Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used (camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? >> I was intending to post something about this: Over the past month I have flown via American Airlines from Miami to San Diego to San Francisco and back to Miami ...and later Miami to Caracas, Venezuela and back. American is now using a laminated card which they hand you and you have to answer whether you have any of those things. They asked me if I had camping gear (I hate it when they do that). I said "Yes" to that but "no" to the no-nos. I had a take apart, low-base stove that uses the regular Coleman propane cylinders. The photo showed a stove that uses a fillable fuel tank....I'm guessing that takes care of your question. They also have a glass-fronted stand will real-life samples of the forbidden articles. The CO2 cartridges were on the list of taboo items, but as someone pointed out, don't the hundreds of lifejackets have these cartridges? We "lived" the ValueJet disaster (I work for the Media Relations Bureau of the Miami-Dade Police Department - civilian PIO/staff writer) and also the xyz Air (cargo plane) that crashed by the airport shortly afterward. The last one was because of improperly stored cylinders of some kind. I just spoke to a cop who said that an empty SEALED fuel bottle can be more dangerous. But she agreed with me that if it's been left unopened for days...the fumes have dissipated. I guess the airlines don't want to take chances. There are plastic fuel bottles that might be less threatening, especially if you are checking in the luggage. In Caracas, American did their own X-raying of carry-on (and passengers had to walk through the "doorway" as a double precaution since we had already done it before entering the "passengers only" area. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 11:22:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02656 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02621 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.wayne.edu (realmail1.wayne.edu [141.217.1.79]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05715 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spamcop.net (pmail.cit.wayne.edu [141.217.25.25]) by mail1.wayne.edu (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20673 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B420D2C.449B91FA_at_spamcop.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:21:32 -0400 From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> X-Sender: "Michael Edelman" <aa0029_at_mail.wayne.edu> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Shrimping? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I can't help Evan with the catching- I think they can be caught with seines or dip nets- but I can help with recipes: Bring along a package of thin bamboo skewers, and a jar with olive oil, crushed garlic, chopped parsley, bread crumbs, pepper, and grated parmesan cheese. Clean the shrimp and put in a baggie with the above mixture for 20-30 minutes. Place shrimps on skewer and grill over fire. -- mike --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 11:40:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06985 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06900 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.wayne.edu (realmail1.wayne.edu [141.217.1.79]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17742 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spamcop.net (pmail.cit.wayne.edu [141.217.25.25]) by mail1.wayne.edu (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24216 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B42119B.AD1B1D70_at_spamcop.net> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:40:27 -0400 From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> X-Sender: "Michael Edelman" <aa0029_at_mail.wayne.edu> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Cameras Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: miles2go_at_konnections.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not > ... > We are just getting into Kayak touring from bicycle touring. Few that tour > by bicycle carry a full sized 35mm camera and I was wondering if this is > also true among Kayakers. I have a brand new Nikon F100 but I'm not sure I > want to subject it to such treatment. I leave the expensive SLRs at home when I paddle. Why risk them? Generally, when you're in a boat, all you really need is one reasonably wide angle lens. >... I also have two high quality point & > shoot cameras (Olympus Stylus Epic 35mm and Fuji DL Super Mini 28-56mm). > Are > cameras such as these more the norm? > I am aware that there are waterproof cameras and waterproof pouches. I have some material on cameras for kayaking on my web site (see footer below) that I intend to update soon... the waterproof pouches are really very clumsy in use and I don't know anyone who likes them. One solution is to carry a reasonably weather and spray resistant camera, like a Yashica T4, in a dry bag and try not to drop it in the water when you're using it, but there's never a guarantee in a kayak that that is not going to happen. (The T-4 is one of the absolute best values in a point and shoot, BTW, having an exceptionally sharp and contrasty lens that makes most fancy wide-range zooms on megabuck SLRs look sick) I prefer various waterproof cameras and diving cameras, my favorite being the older Nikonos II and III. The Nikonos IV can often be had at an attractive price; many examples are troubled by gaskets that leak at depth, making them unsuitable for diving, but perfectly acceptable for kayaking use. I tie my Nikonos II to a deck ring on my boat, having learned the hard way that they don't float ;-) Another solution- though usually not a cheap one- is a waterproof housing for your camera. If, however, you're thinking digital, you can get a housing for the Canon Digital ELF for about $120, and the camera and housing make a superb kayaking outfit. There's also a new housing for a couple of the Sony digitals that looks good. -- mike --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 11:48:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09693 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09688 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zetnet.co.uk (root_at_irwell.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.48]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24182 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] (man-s110.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.237]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with ESMTP id f63Im1U03873 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:48:01 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:48:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [PaddleWise] Short Wave Radio for Weather From: Keith W Robertson <news_at_fachwen.org> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B767D20F.1903%news_at_fachwen.org> In-Reply-To: <200107031336.GAA04596_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On all my overnight sea trips (usually a week or more) I carry my Sony ICF-SW100 which seems to be able to pick up almost anything, including the BBC World Service if you like that sort of thing! In Norway last year I could even get the BBC Shipping forecast on Long Wave. It is quite a small unit and I only used it in camp not on the sea. reception can be improved with the use of an antenna 'extension' which is simply a reel of wire clipped to the end of the internal antenna. Keith Robertson *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 21:10:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29467 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29362 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04756 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03647 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17068 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25670 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au (genesis.amsa.gov.au [203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25292 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex1.amsa.gov.au (cbrex1.amsa.gov.au.253.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.253.17] (may be forged)) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16862; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:12:24 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex1.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:14:57 +1000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:14:56 +1000 Message-ID: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D576_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Thread-Index: AcEDiYGJTLQyxn+TR2q3e9kecxdyNAAjZu9Q From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: <miles2go_at_konnections.net>, "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jul 2001 02:14:57.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F0E7620:01C1042F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id TAA25671 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello Ron and Nancy I do a lot of photography, even have the bathroom set up for Black and white. I take two cameras. One is the Canon Primer point and shoot underwater which I keep on the deck all the time. This is quite a good camera and can take heavy surf landings. One of my shots taken with this camera got on the front cover of Sea Kayaker magazine. I use slides in it all the time and its exposure control is very good. I find the fixed focal length of 32mm too wide a lot of the time and wish a similar camera came out with two focal lengths IE 32 and 80. Another problem is water on the lens ruining shots and there was good discussion a few months ago on Paddlewise of various options to overcome this. My other camera is a manual SLR (Minolta X300) which I keep in my day hatch in a plastic waterproof bag. I rarely take this out of the hatch when at sea unless its very calm. On lakes and rivers I will use it from the kayak. I find that most of my photography is done after I've landed and the SLR is much better especially as I nearly always use transparency film. If I think there is a likelihood of spotting whales I will put the zoom lens (70-200) on before leaving the shore. I have never changed lens or film at sea and doubt if I ever would. I also carry a range of lens, tripod, filters and cable release. I came to sea kayaking from a hiking background and found all the extra space/capacity great compared to a backpack. I have been handling this camera with salty hands and salt spray for about 7 years and I have had no trouble with it. I try and wipe it with fresh water as soon as I can. I would love to own a F100 but wouldn't be inclined to take one on kayak trips. I prefer the manual SLRs for outdoor trips. The new Nikon FM3A looks good. One disadvantage of being the photographer in a kayaking group is being asked to land first particularly in big surf. The conversation goes something like - "Hey David don't you want some good shots for the club newsletter, you go first and photograph the rest of us landing. Oh and Let us know if there are any rocks". "Gee thanks" There are a lot of my shots on our club web site www.nswseakayaker.asn.au in the back copies of the newsletters I think I would rather leave my tent behind rather than my camera on a kayak trip. I often give slide shows and love looking at slides from previous trips and reminiscing Cheers David Whyte Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: miles2go_at_konnections.net [mailto:miles2go_at_konnections.net] Sent: Tuesday, 3 July 2001 3:50 PM To: PaddleWise Subject: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not First off let me say hello from Utah. We're possibly the only UT based tourers on the list and surely the only ones on the list from Eden. (location of the 2002 Olympic Downhill Skiing venue, North of SLC) We are just getting into Kayak touring from bicycle touring. Few that tour by bicycle carry a full sized 35mm camera and I was wondering if this is also true among Kayakers. I have a brand new Nikon F100 but I'm not sure I want to subject it to such treatment. I also have two high quality point & shoot cameras (Olympus Stylus Epic 35mm and Fuji DL Super Mini 28-56mm). Are cameras such as these more the norm? I am aware that there are waterproof cameras and waterproof pouches. I have also looked through the archives on the PaddleWise site. I didn't see anything addressing what cameras the photo inclined carry. Cheers, Ron and Nancy Wheeler Eden, Utah ************************************************************************ *** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ************************************************************************ *** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 21:11:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01668 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01663 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07073 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04806 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17079 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08049 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20617 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zippydog.ix.netcom.com (user-2ivflbm.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.213.118]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01197 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010101c10436$5d70c060$76d5f7a5_at_ix.netcom.com> From: "Jason Rogers" <jsnsflyfishadv_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107031336.GAA04596_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] P&H quest for sale. Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:06:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net For sale:P&H Quest, new, fiberglass with adjustable cable operated skeg. Red with yellow trim over a white hull, there are only 2 in California. Includes new matching glacier sprayskirt by snapdragon and carbon/kevlar touring paddle by Galasport. This kayak has never been paddled, I just received it in a crate. The boat would cost you over $3000.00 new plus shipping would be an additional $400, sprayskirt $115 and paddle $325. I am forced to sell because I am moving to where a boat of this caliber will be unappreciated with no ocean. Photos available - just ask. You can view the kayak at www.phcompany.co.uk or I can email pics, and the paddle at www.galasport.cz Everything is unused and new, all for only $2,900.00 OBO Jason Rogers (650) 839-1077 bay area/peninsula paddlingear_at_ix.netcom.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 3 21:38:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08507 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08502 Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.bendnet.com (mail.bendnet.com [206.163.50.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23113 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elkhart (bend37-61.bendnet.com [206.163.37.61]) by mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with SMTP id f644cRH28026 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001001c10444$51ca8a80$3d25a3ce_at_elkhart.com.elkhart.com> From: "Shawn Servoss" <anomad_at_bendnet.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:46:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net <snip> >Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:12:05 -0500 >From: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles > >Law abiding outdoorspeople: I know of more than one chainsaw that has flown on domestic flights. Very clean chainsaws....... Fill the bottles with water or a beverage if your friend is really worried. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 01:22:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA17710 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17704 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.19]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10698 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grantscomputer ([210.54.72.221]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010704082156.XRRR2773532.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz_at_grantscomputer>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:21:56 +1200 Message-ID: <003a01c10462$fc7c5f80$dd4836d2_at_grantscomputer> From: "Grant Glazer" <grant_glazer_at_xtra.co.nz> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, "Don Herring" <dherring_at_yoda.fdt.net> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010703083819.00a6ff08_at_mail.fdt.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fwd: pro-sized 35mm cameras or not Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:26:11 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Having said that, I'm leaning towards the Pentax IQZoom 105 WR. Weather > Resistant (not afraid of splashes, could probably survive a dunking), > small, compact and does a good job for a point and shoot. > > HTH > > Don Go for it, have had mine for a year now and not regretted it. Certainly survives the dunkings! http://www.pentax.com/products/cameras/camera_overview.cfm?productID=10264 Cheers Grant ______________________________________ Want Kayaking information on Waiheke Island? http://www.issystems.co.nz/kayak/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 01:29:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18283 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18278 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14745 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.30.174] (host-30-174.dsl-sea.seanet.com [208.12.30.174]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02213; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:29:03 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 01:37:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not From: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> To: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au>, <miles2go_at_konnections.net>, PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B76823BC.1429%rexrob_at_mac.com> In-Reply-To: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D576_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net David Whyte wrote: snip >Another problem is >water on the lens ruining shots and there was good discussion a few >months ago on Paddlewise of various options to overcome this. snip Yes, someone in that discussion mentioned that he uses a small squeegee to wipe his lens. Whoever that was, thanks for a great idea. I'm using a squeegee now on my video housing lens and it's the only thing that has worked for me. I had tried different liquid coatings that did not work. I could not find a small squeegee so I bought one that was about four inches wide and cut it down with a hack saw. The handle has a hole in the end which I used to tie a line through to attach to the housing so it is always handy. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 01:48:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24376 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24371 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.tau.ac.il (post.tau.ac.il [132.66.16.11]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26915 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joshlap.post.tau.ac.il (gilman422.tau.ac.il [132.66.160.51]) by post.tau.ac.il (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f648m2213222 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:48:03 +0300 (IDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010704112816.022aa670_at_post.tau.ac.il> X-Sender: teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 11:44:07 +0200 To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 35mm cameras In-Reply-To: <003a01c10462$fc7c5f80$dd4836d2_at_grantscomputer> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010703083819.00a6ff08_at_mail.fdt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Folks: I'm not a professional photographer by any means, but I have not seem my camera mentioned here. I really enjoy my Minolta Vectis Weathermatic. The features are detailed on the website below, but suffice it to say that it is waterproof to 10 meters, and has a zoom lens. It is very rugged, and enables a firm grip with wet hands. I carry it in my PFD pocket, where the strap is secured to a D-ring with a little carabiner. The only caution mentioned by the manufacturer is not to put it under RUNNING water from the faucet. With this in mind, I make sure it is in the pocket when I surf, but I don't fear whipping it out for a quick shot. It really takes GREAT pictures: sharp, good color and contrast. Limitations? Well, the zoom is only 30-50mm (approx. 38-63 mm in the 35mm format, it says), and it is in the APS format. I know some don't like APS, but it suits me fine. Josh (Who is anxiously awaiting a moonlight paddle this evening...) http://www.minoltaeurope.com/pe/compact/vectis_wm.html At 10:26 04/07/01, you wrote: > > Having said that, I'm leaning towards the Pentax IQZoom 105 WR. Weather > > Resistant (not afraid of splashes, could probably survive a dunking), > > small, compact and does a good job for a point and shoot. > > > > HTH > > > > Don > >Go for it, have had mine for a year now and not regretted it. Certainly >survives the dunkings! > >http://www.pentax.com/products/cameras/camera_overview.cfm?productID=10264 > >Cheers >Grant >______________________________________ > >Want Kayaking information on Waiheke Island? >http://www.issystems.co.nz/kayak/index.html > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 02:58:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA15938 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15933 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10141 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 02:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <31DL7B9T>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 05:59:02 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A00C_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: "paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] on vacation Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 06:01:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi fellow paddlers, Tomorrow I am leaving the list for the next 4 weeks, because the time has come to stop talking and do some actual paddling. I am leaving for Sweden next week, planning to paddle the sea both east and west of Sweden and both big lakes in between. It is possible that I leave my plans, put up my tent at the first pond I encounter and stay there for three weeks: I may have plans, but I have no reservations, appointments or ego to protect. As always, I have planned my vacation for months, but the last week thoughts of regret fill my mind. Why would anyone ever leave his house and his comfort to spend weeks being eaten by bugs and ants, shivering with cold, soaked with rain that will never stop? Just to get my in the mood, let me try to sum up the pleasures of going on a vacation: - Going through 2 hatches, 5 drybags and 15 minutes to make a cup of coffee - Spending a sleepless night in a tent during a gale, wondering if that dead tree hovering over your tent will just keep loosing branches or will come down completely - Making a meal of old bread, stale butter and sweating cheese - Finding out you filled your thermobottle will salt water - Finding out that ants love to sleep in your sleeping bag - Driving a 1000 kilometers on a 35 degree sunny day, without airconditioning - Wondering where you left your toothbrush (In the car? At home?) - Sitting on the hood of your broken down car, in the middle of nowhere, wondering what to do next - Waiting for a ferry that may come any moment, but takes 3 hours in the end - Washing yourself in freezing water - Knowing your wetsuit won't dry for the next 3 weeks, not trying to remember the smell - Finding out the hard way that the orange juice you bought was condensated and had to be mixed with 10 parts of water - Tasting Norwegian cheese for the first and last time ... And having the most beautiful place in the world all to yourself. See you all in August, Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 07:19:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06254 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06244 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10603.mail.yahoo.com (web10603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.167]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA20795 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010704141701.99804.qmail_at_web10603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.233.110] by web10603.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 07:17:01 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:17:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] pro-sized 35mm cameras or not To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Don wrote: >Having said that, I'm leaning towards the Pentax IQZoom 105 WR. >Weather Resistant (not afraid of splashes, could probably survive a >dunking), small, compact and does a good job for a point and shoot. Mine has survived plenty of dunkings. I don't even worry about it anymore--I tuck it inside the side of my PFD and paddle all day. I roll with it. If it picks up a lot of salt spray, rinse it off by dunking it in a pail of fresh water. I don't think underwater photography is recommended, though. Make sure the seal on the film door is clean every time you close it. Shawn Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 08:38:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00461 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00455 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usermail0.netnitco.net (usermail0.netnitco.net [216.176.128.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09982 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epsrenne (PPPa54-ResaleGaryMetro22-2R7945.dialinx.net [4.45.154.179]) by usermail0.netnitco.net (8.11.4/8.10.1/052400) with SMTP id f64FbLj56086; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:37:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003401c1049f$90fe9880$b39a2d04_at_epsrenne> From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> To: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B3F52F2.5482E12F_at_pacifier.com> <00b901c1036d$f0196800$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:38:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Tom wrote: >>>>> Does anyone know whether the airlines have a zero tolerance policy on used (camping) fuel bottles in passenger luggage? I can imagine the rationale for such a rule. If you can cite me to CFR provisions on hazardous materials, that's a bonus. Does the prohibition apply no matter how thoroughly the bottles are cleaned, and whether they are transported uncapped? Do the airlines enforce the rule? . . . vigorously? I am asking this on behalf of a friend (honest) who tells me he is careful and the alleged rule is like a law against jaywalking and I would like to know the risks before how hard I try to persuade him to change his ways.<<<<< Hi All, Since no one has yet addressed Tom's question about CFR references, I'll jump in. The CFR is available online at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html As others have pointed out, CFR 49 is the title that pertains to the question, and in that title, the appropriate sections are here: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/49cfrv2_00.html These sections, in particular, are germane to the question: 171.8 - Definitions (to help decipher other sections) 172.101 Hazardous Material Table 173.xxx General Requirements for Packaging (confusing...) 175.xx Carriage by aircraft (also lists exceptions) The only bad thing about online access is that (for me anyway) the main table that delineates the transport regs for all hazardous substances - 49CFR 172.101 - is so big that I always get an error message when I try to download it in the text version. I borrowed the 49 CFR book from work, and see that this section is a little over 200 pages long. (larger libraries should have the CFR books) In a perverse sort of way, it's fun to browse CFR regulations, but I find that having the book is easier as there are many cross-references which are a pain in the butt to follow back and forth online. I don't think that there is one single CFR reference that addresses Tom's question, although the excerpt below would better support Tom's friend: 49CFR173.29 <Empty packagings.> " (a) General. Except as otherwise provided in this section, an empty packaging containing only the residue of a hazardous material shall be offered for transportation and transported in the same manner as when it previously contained a greater quantity of that hazardous material. (b) Notwithstanding the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, an empty packaging is not subject to any other requirements of this subchapter if it conforms to the following provisions: (1) Any hazardous material shipping name and identification number markings, any hazard warning labels or placards, and any other markings indicating that the material is hazardous (e.g., RQ, INHALATION HAZARD) are removed, obliterated, or securely covered in transportation. This provision does not apply to transportation in a transport vehicle or a freight container if the packaging is not visible in transportation and the packaging is loaded by the shipper and unloaded by the shipper or consignee; (2) The packaging-- (i) Is unused; (ii) Is sufficiently cleaned of residue and purged of vapors to remove any potential hazard; (iii) Is refilled with a material which is not hazardous to such an extent that any residue remaining in the packaging no longer poses a hazard" This suggests that empty and clean fuel bottles and stoves (no odor of fuel) or fuel bottles filled with a nonflammable liquid would be OK to check with airline luggage, but that any odor of fuel would require the appropriate packaging based on the requirements listed in 172.101. But as with any rules/policies, the degree of enforcement may vary with the enforcer. Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 09:08:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09661 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09654 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28650 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05297 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17311 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03366 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:08:07 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14915 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 07:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.7b.170ba664 (14381) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7b.170ba664.28747d44_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:08:04 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] on vacation To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/4/01 6:01:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nblaauw_at_foxboro.com writes: > ... And having the most beautiful place in the world all to yourself. Nils, you may not have it quite to yourself: Keep a weather eye out for Alv Elvestad in case you end up north of the Arctic Circle. (He's somewhere up there on the annual Pakboats expedition.) Yeah, yeah, I know, that's a bit in the same spirit of Crocodile Dundee "making friends" on the streets of New York City, but you never know! ;-) And one day I too will make it up there ... Have a great time!! Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 10:27:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03918 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03913 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17858 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 40627 invoked by uid 3027); 4 Jul 2001 17:26:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 17:26:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:26:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 35mm cameras In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010704112816.022aa670_at_post.tau.ac.il> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107041323270.38363-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I haven't been following this all the way, but I use a Nikon FM3. I've taken great shots from the kayak at really low speeds. It travels everywhere with me. I have three lenses - a macro, a (not exact) 25-80 (?), and a 80 - 300. Depending on what I'm up to I take slides or prints. Andree Andree Hurley http://www.onwatersports.com/ - Kayak Instruction Excellence http://www.viewit.com/ - New Look, New Programs for E-commerce and Design *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 11:58:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01383 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01378 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13815 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CB5090A ([24.178.209.58]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010704185800.WAGX22670.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CB5090A> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:58:00 -0700 Message-ID: <02f301c104b9$d3be27c0$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> From: "Ron and Barb" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 35mm for kayaking Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:47:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I use a Olympus Stylus Epic most of the time. GREAT LENS, fully automatic focus and exposure, and, it has survived a couple of quick dunkings with no problem. Some of the other cameras mentioned are more waterproof than this camera but none have as fast (f2.8) or as good a lens. At times I also take a Nikon N/80 with a 24-85mm zoom which fits nicely in a small dry bag and can be stored in my deck bag for fairly easy access. The main benefit of this lens/camera combo it that it weighs under 3 pounds. This one is only used when there is no chance of getting it wet! Regards, Ron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 12:01:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03503 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03460 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16404 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28452 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17371 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13125 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06500 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-564.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.209.82]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21146 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:56:31 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B435873.5829CF8E_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:54:59 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] on vacation References: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A00C_at_BAARN3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "Blaauw, Niels" wrote: > . Why would anyone ever leave his house and his > comfort to spend weeks being eaten by bugs and ants, shivering with cold, > soaked with rain that will never stop? Because life is meant to be lived and it don't get no better than this! Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 4 19:57:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27347 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27342 Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net (mail1.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.200]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11267 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d42.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.107]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f652tim46108 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 22:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010704230331.7077824a_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 23:03:31 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rest stop In-Reply-To: <3B435873.5829CF8E_at_mtaonline.net> References: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A00C_at_BAARN3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rest Stop I'd been heading into the low evening sun all the way across White Pine Bay, so I was glad to pull into the shade of the trees and give my eyes a rest. I turned the boat around, glanced at my watch, and looked back down the lake, with a decision in front of me -- go down to the far end of the lake, or just back to the boat launch? As I looked down the lake, I could see the goose fleet setting out from one side of the bay, heading for the far side. The young ones are in full adult plumage now, but they still can't fly, and neither can the adults, who are finishing up their molt, so the lake's geese tend to stay together in a big flock for mutual protection. I don't like to bother them that much when they're in that state, so, whatever I was going to do, it was going to have to wait until they cleared the path in front of me. Actually, it was a good time for a rest stop. I'd just finished up about four miles, the early part bucking a fifteen-gusting-to-twenty breeze and into the late afternoon sun, too boot. But now the breeze was dying, and I only felt a breath of air against my back, barely putting up a ripple on the nearly flat water as I leaned back, paddle resting on the gunnel. Off in the distance, I could see the tops of thunderheads from the line that had passed through earlier in the afternoon, driving me off the lake then. In this neck of the woods, the air isn't often clear enough to see an anvil head at a distance of what was probably eighty or a hundred miles, but it had to be this evening. The sky was a brilliant blue, as only the right kind of July day can be. How still it was now, after a windy, wavy day. It's amazing how well you can hear out on the water. There was a bass boat off in the distance, working the lily pads, and I could hear a man's voice and a woman's voice, although I couldn't make out what they were saying. A bass jumped not far away, one these fishermen will likely miss. There was still a little rustle in the leaves over on the side of the bay, proving that the breeze was still blowing, though much diminished from earlier. I'd earlier had visions of a roaring run downwind across the lake, and the waves earlier had indicated that at the far end of the lake it might even get a little surfy in spots, but it was clear that waves like that weren't going to be a possiblity now. While an fast run down the lake like that would have been fun, it would also have meant a long buck into the wind to get back, but frankly, today had shown me wind enough to hold me for a while. I looked down the lake again. The geese were getting away from the shore a ways now. I counted 44 of them the other night, a much smaller flock than usual -- I've seen years when the goose flock this time of year approaches a hundred. A heron wheeled overhead, not chained to the surface like the geese were just now. At the far end of the lake, the bare clay cliff shown a brilliant gold in the rapidly reddening evening sun. The colors were so crisp and rich and saturated at this time of the day, in the low sun, that the whole lake takes on an aura of fantasy. It only lasts for a few minutes, and then it's gone, but it's wonderful while it lasts, this grudging surrender of the day into evening. I picked up the paddle and gave a couple of strokes, just to keep the boat from wallowing in the dying breeze. I wasn't really ready to go yet, although if I took it easy I probably wouldn't bother the geese from where they were now. A carp -- maybe two, it was hard to say -- briefly swirl the water a few feet away. I looked up, and saw a big round ball of almost-full moon rising, looking almost translucent against the deep blue of the evening sky, reminding me that the day was getting on. Almost from habit, I gave the paddle another two or three strokes, then waited a moment, then took two or three more. I stopped, and glanceed at my watch -- somehow, fifteen minutes had evaporated, and I knew I'd really be pushing the light if I decided to go to the far end of the lake now. Oh, well. It'd been a good day. I started paddling a little more seriously, taking my time, figuring that if I timed it right, I could have the boat on the trailer and be able to sit on a picnic table at the boat launch to watch the sunset. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 07:55:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07719 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07714 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ionet.net (root_at_mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14037 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ionet.net (ip126.oklahoma-city21.ok.pub-ip.psi.net [38.36.80.126]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14555 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:54:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B447E79.B810D554_at_ionet.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:49:29 -0500 From: Wild Country Outfitters <wildoats_at_ionet.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Headin' out Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Well Paddlewisers, here's another one getting ready to sign off for a while. The dogs and I are heading north to Montana to one of our favorite spots on the Missouri. If you see us, say hello-- yellow boat with two black dogs in blue pfds. Of course we might stop in Colorado for a bit of ww on our way home. Any water up there or is it all dried up? Alice, Happy Dog, Prince Dog *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 14:08:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01644 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01639 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24354 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24801 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17809 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18728 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from repulse.cnchost.com (repulse.concentric.net [207.155.248.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24840 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from syllog.com (w138.z064220028.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net [64.220.28.138]) by repulse.cnchost.com id QAA16053; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:21:59 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <3B44CD0A.13FA236E_at_syllog.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 16:24:42 -0400 From: Tim Gamble <tgamble_at_syllog.com> Organization: Syllog Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Gamble <tgamble_at_syllog.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayking in NYC on National TV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Today I was interviewed by ABC Nightly News for a story about Geocaching. This is a hide and seek game people play with GPS units. I play the game using my kayak in New York City. I am not sure how much of it will make it past the editors, but they took a lot of shots of me paddling around in Hells Gate and Interviewed me from my boat. It is supposed to air on the 6:30 nightly ABC news with Peter Jennings on either 7/6 or 7/9. Tim Gamble... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 16:04:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07788 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07783 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13518 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11924 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18136 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13579 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20842 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.149] (node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f65LlAG16822 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:47:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330102b76aed748b32_at_[24.132.254.149]> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:44:51 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Back Online Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello all, I'm back online (and on) Paddlewise after my relocation to the Netherlands. Have had a few paddles already with our lists own Niels Blaauw and fellow paddlers from the Utrecht Canoe Club. Still waiting for my Khatsalano to arrive but already looking forward to some European trips! -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 16:04:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07796 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07790 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13555 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11935 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18143 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13614 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21053 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.149] (node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f65LmxG17049 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:49:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330103b76af297c01b_at_[24.132.254.149]> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:47:09 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Norwegian Paddling Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello all, to start my return to the list off right, I have a couple questions. Fares to Norway are cheap this summer, so I am thinking of heading up to either Stavanger or Bergen for a week of paddling third week in August. I'd love some destination recommendations and to hear some tips and good resource links. I'd prefer to not have to rent a car and will be bringing the Feathercraft so don't need any outfitting. Thanks! -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 16:06:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08032 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08026 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13970 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12050 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18157 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01771 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:44:25 -0700 (PDT) From: miles2go_at_konnections.net Received: from sql00 (ip185-25.konnections.com [207.173.185.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA00437 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles2go (209.63.122.250) by SQL00 (MailMax 4. 7. 0. 8) with ESMTP id 30340676 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 16:43:54 -0600 MDT Message-ID: <000901c105a3$98c15620$fa7a3fd1_at_konnections.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] What are the top spots in the US Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:41:10 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Given some personal info, I'd like some of you veteran kayakers to name ideal locations for Nancy and I to consider as our next town (base camp). We'll be moving in a few years and would like to have some places to check out in the meantime. We're new to touring kayaks but generally know what we are looking for. We'd enjoy having a place near home to drop the boats in the water a few times a week for a good workout (large lake, reservoir, protected bay?). A place that's not constantly crowded with powerboats and play craft. Then we'd like some pristine flat water destinations within a day's drive where we can kayak/camp for extended trips. Nancy currently doesn't want to train/paddle in the ocean but our sights are set on extended trips to Alaska after the training and experience is there. I hope that in ten years, touring by kayak will be a centerpiece in our lives. We might keep our Utah home for the Skiing and mountain biking but we need a good home base for the kayaking. Any ideas? Cheers, Ron Wheeler Eden, Utah *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 5 17:40:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05846 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05841 Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13696 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f660ck202645 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:38:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:39:41 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <894358041.20010705173941_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] What are the top spots in the US X-Sender: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Thursday, July 05, 2001, at 3:41:10 PM PDT, miles2go_at_konnections.net wrote: mkn> We'd enjoy having a place near home to drop the boats in the water a mkn> few times a week for a good workout (large lake, reservoir, protected mkn> bay?). A place that's not constantly crowded with powerboats and play mkn> craft. Then we'd like some pristine flat water destinations within a mkn> day's drive where we can kayak/camp for extended trips. mkn> Any ideas? Hello Ron and Nancy, While my own dreams of relocation are headed north to Alaska, I now live in a place that has some lovely ocean and bay paddling, as well as some nice lakes not too far away. I'm on the central coast of Washington state - at Copalis Beach. Property and rental prices here a very reasonable (I'm comparing it to NYC, where I was before I moved here). Here, you can rent a two story, three bedroom, two bath, oceanfront house for the price of a very small studio apartment in NYC. A few miles down the coast from me is Grays Harbor, where eight resident Gray Whales spend a lot of their time, thousands of Harbor seals, some Harbor porpoises, Sea lions, lots of other sea creatures (occasional blue sharks and Orcas come visiting), many year round and seasonal birds (including about 2500 brown pelicans each summer), etc. There is great ocean paddling all up, down, and around the coast of this state. Sandy beaches that go forever, rock gardens, sea caves, islands, etc. Though Grays Harbor is a protected bay, since it's pretty big, a bit of wind can get it dancing in a hurry. Most of the Winter is pretty windy, and warm summer days can produce pretty fresh breezes as well. The paddling is always wonderful though. In Ocean Shores - where Grays Harbor is - there are even a couple small "lakes" connected by a series of canals going through residential areas, where you can find very calm paddling any time of year. A little further south is Willapa Bay - another very nice place to paddle. Just around the corner from Willipa Bay is the mouth of the Columbia River - more great paddling on the river between Washington and Oregon. About an hour from here is Lake Quinault - in the foothills of the Olympic mountains, and right on the edge of a lovely rain forest. Further up the coast is the lovely Lake Ozette. There are several small rivers flowing into Grays harbor, and they're fun to paddle as well. Most of the time, I have these waters all to myself (ocean, bay, rivers, and lakes mentioned). Though sunny summer weekends can produce a few "weekenders", it never gets really crowded here. This past Winter was unnaturally dry and "summer-like", but usually, Winter is full of non-stop wind and horizontal rain for a few months - some very lovely storms with big swell/surf to enjoy. Now and then, we even get a little snow and really cold weather in the Winter. Summer is generally warm and sunny - as it is today. I like all types of weather, so for me, there's no "good" or "bad" weather. It's all just different types of lovely weather. :-) Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 08:28:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05468 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05463 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from deimos.frii.net (deimos.frii.com [216.17.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02337 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ftc-0305.dialup.frii.com (ftc-0342.dialup.frii.com [216.17.134.138]) by deimos.frii.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f66FQtm15462 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:26:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ftc-0305.dialup.frii.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C105FB.66E15C60_at_ftc-0305.dialup.frii.com>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:09:46 -0600 Message-ID: <01C105FB.66E15C60_at_ftc-0305.dialup.frii.com> From: Marek Uliasz <uliasz_at_frii.com> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Texas Water Safari 2001 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:09:40 -0600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have just posted a "paddling observer's report" from my Texas Water Safari trip: http://www.frii.com/~uliasz/wayfarer/tws2001a.htm 3000 miles of driving from Colorado and 84 miles of paddling - 1/3 of the 260 mile race course. I am planning to enter solo next year. Marek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 09:14:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20300 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20295 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05085 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28083 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18434 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27847 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: kayaks_at_dejazzd.com Received: from mail.site.dejazzd.com (mail.dejazzd.com [209.173.31.24]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11210 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 06:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.173.31.24] by mail.site.dejazzd.com (InterMail vK.4.03.03.00 201-232-128 license 6281e8c5dc0874d410f744903e28fd00) with SMTP id <20010706132036.DTCD14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:20:36 -0400 To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 9:20:36 EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010706132036.DTCD14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I fly/camp three or four times a year with a variety of stoves. For my Primus white-gas stove, I find that cleaning it thoroughly and filling the fuel bottle with water (soapy water adds some fragrance) ensures that there is no fuel odor. My Camping Gaz stove never smells of residual fuel, so there isn't any cleanup needed. The few times anyone has ever checked (when I carried the stoves in my carry-on), they've been satisfied that there was no fuel odor and left it at that. Your experience will vary, of course. For me, the problem has never been the airlines; instead, it is finding fuel when I land in quantities that make sense. For the Primus stove, I can either use unleaded fuel which stinks something awful, buy a gallon of white gas which I'll hardly use, or go with charcoal starter fluid or paint thinner or some other sooty (and relatively expensive) fuel in order to find pints and quarts. For the Gaz stove, finding fuel cartridges is easy in camping-oriented places and near impossible otherwise and you invariably end up buying too much fuel since you're never sure you'll find it when you need it - another waste. So, this year, I came across a Trangia alcohol stove during a trip to Colorado and it is now my exclusive traveling stove. I really like this stove because the fuel is cheap, plentiful, doubles as a beverage if you use grain alcohol, and doesn't stink or ruin stuff when it spills. I bought the mini version and have a small pot and fry pan combination that houses the stove and the pot holder when it isn't in use. Super light and compact. And the stove is super quiet and totally fool proof - you have to crush it with a rock to make it not work (no jets to clog!). Granted, it takes considerably longer to boil water and you'll burn all the hair off your knuckles and other parts if your not careful, but that is a small price to pay I think. There is more than one reason the Trangia stoves have been around forever. Glenn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 10:35:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14661 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14581 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:34:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29090 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id p.cf.8cdb36e (4331); Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <cf.8cdb36e.287750a1_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:34:25 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles To: kayaks_at_dejazzd.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-06 12:17:37 EDT, you write: << For me, the problem has never been the airlines; instead, it is finding fuel when I land in quantities that make sense. >> That reminds me of the time I arrived at the KOA near Portland, Oregon, in the evening and they didn't have the small butane cylinders to fit my little Peak 1 Micra (?) stove - only the large propane ones. No soup, no tea, no nuttin' hot for either dinner or breakfast. Next day I drove all over the place looking for a sporting goods store...took about 1/2 day til I found one. I have since bought a wood shavings etc. stove and a small alcohol stove from The Sportsman's Guide (dot com)...but haven't used them. The alcohol one comes in a black fake leather pouch (looks like a camera lens) about 6" tall and 4" in diameter. and can clip on your belt. the legs open up to hold the pot. The wood one folds flat to about 4" x 6" and comes in a cordura bag. Each in the $10-12 range. They're both quite small and useful to have as back up. Ref your Trangia...aren't you supposed to use denatured alcohol? I know hardware stores carry it...know of any other places? I've never seen a Trangia...apart from the photos in campmor.com For the california trip I took an American Outdoors (?) stove that uses the Coleman propane which made things very easy. It is bulky for a backpack, but I take a rolling duffel and rent a car. It's about two inches deep and 8" square with a detachable metal pipe/hose. Fits nicely (along with plates and cooking utensils) in one of those zippered cordura toiletry bags available in the luggage department of the Marts for about $20. About $35 for the "better" brands in Sears etc. The bags are about 10" wide by 8" tall and have handles. Most are black but I found one in red. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 11:06:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23748 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23743 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19533 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14421 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18487 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05291 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07473 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.149] (node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f66H1we30409; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:01:59 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330101b76c00e46c15_at_[24.132.254.149]> In-Reply-To: <20010706132036.DTCD14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]> References: <20010706132036.DTCD14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:59:39 -0500 To: kayaks_at_dejazzd.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 9:20 AM -0400 7/6/01, kayaks_at_dejazzd.com wrote: >[SNIP] >So, this year, I came across a Trangia alcohol stove during a trip >to Colorado and it is now my exclusive traveling stove. I really >like this stove because the fuel is cheap, plentiful, doubles as a >beverage if you use grain alcohol, and doesn't stink or ruin stuff >when it spills. If you look in the archives you'll see there are a lot of us Trangia junkies out here. I bought my first about five years ago and haven't looked back. One nice thing about living in Holland now - plenty of Trangia accessories and parts! I've used mine kayaking and during winter camping down to -15F without problems. They are sadly hard to get in the US. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 11:50:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06129 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06124 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17418 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.149] (node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f66Impe03322; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:48:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330104b76c19ce4693_at_[24.132.254.149]> In-Reply-To: <93.cd331e5.28775ddd_at_aol.com> References: <93.cd331e5.28775ddd_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:47:05 -0500 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >In a message dated 01-07-06 14:09:34 EDT, you write: > ><< If you look in the archives you'll see there are a lot of us Trangia > junkies out here. ....They are sadly hard to get in the US. >> > >I guess that's why I couldn't find it at Campmor. > sandy kramer You can sometimes see them for sale at Campmor or REI, but it is often times the small Trangia which isn't that great. If you are out to get one, be sure and find a full-sized version such as the #25 or #27. These sets come with the windscreen and a full set of pots. Get the non-stick - they are worth it. Some places do carry them in the US such as Rutabaga in Madison. MSR is the North American distributor, bug them about getting them out there. Travelling with Trangia fuel shouldn't be a problem because it is just alcohol. You could always just fill a whisky bottle full. ;-) -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 12:05:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11693 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11688 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29771 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24313 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18546 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:11:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107061911.MAA18546_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Texas Water Safari 2001 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Marek Uliasz <uliasz_at_frii.com> > I have just posted a "paddling observer's report" from my Texas Water > Safari trip: > http://www.frii.com/~uliasz/wayfarer/tws2001a.htm > > 3000 miles of driving from Colorado and 84 miles of paddling - 1/3 of > the 260 mile race course. Great photos! It was fun for me to see the places where I got my paddling ears wet :-) Also fun to see familar names and faces. Thanks for the trip report and photos. Spencers are a great and friendly source for Water Safari info. > I am planning to enter solo next year. Good luck to you. Tough water race. How were the fire ants, mosquitos, cottonmouths and gars? (someone got beaned by a gar one year that jumped out of the water towards their light during the night and broke their collar bone, if I recall correctly). Do you know what the flow rate was (from your photos, seems to be a decent flow rate... not too high or too low - which has been pretty unpredictable... if you are planning to do this, plan for flood rate or drought, too). I read where you wrote that temps were near 100F. Not unusual for that time of year in that area. The humidity is what is the real killer. 8-p Thanks for sharing your trip with us. :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 14:20:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21510 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21504 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from testa.iserv.net (testa.iserv.net [204.177.184.150]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28277 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dellcomputer (tnt2-27-250.iserv.net [204.157.27.250]) by testa.iserv.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f66LJp201139 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:19:51 -0400 Message-ID: <022601c10661$fa1418e0$a11c9dcc_at_dellcomputer> From: "drsm" <drsm_at_iserv.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Air Transport of Fuel Bottles Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:23:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Glenn, I have also become a Trangia convert. How do you clean it prior to air transport. I will be flying with mine this Fall, and the problem has been bothering me. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 14:51:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02237 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02082 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20146 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20008 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18632 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 14:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21083 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20646 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id q.127.10d4219 (4330); Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <127.10d4219.28776d19_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:35:53 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fuel for Trangia (was Air Transport of Fuel Bottles) To: patrick_at_patrickmaun.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Well, a google search gave me the lowdown on the alcohol: Denatured alcohol (‘methylated sprirts’, ‘meths’, ‘solvent alcohol’) is made mostly from ethyl alcohol or ethanol and some added methyl alcohol or methanol. To make a food grade ethanol undrinkable, methyl alcohol (this was mainly wood alcohol which is methanol derived from fermented wood) is added and it thereby separates it legally from alcoholic beverage products, with all of its associated implications (taxes, laws, places that can sell it, people that are allowed to buy it, etc.); or • Isopropyl alcohol is available as rubbing alcohol, which is made by combining isopropyl alcohol and water (normally 70% alcohol to 30% water). This is used for medical purposes (for external use only!). The water will lessen the amount of heat generated, but it will still work fine with the Trangia burner. (Avoid using the 'Wintergreen' version; this has added mint aromatics — this will still burn, but smells like $#%! Trust me on this, I've been there!) •Grain alcohol, (pure ethanol), food grade alcohol made mostly from corn. Less likely to be readily available. • Booze, over-proof rum for instance would work also, but: it's expensive and it's a darn waste! Personal Preference Alcohol as a fuel for tramping and camping is a far better option than the alternatives, such as gasoline (petrol), white gas, kerosene, or even pressurized butane or propane. The main advantage is in my view the relatively harmless affect on nature in the event of a spill. Alcohol is water miscible unlike some other fuels. Lets face it: we all have spilled stuff before, especially when tired, dirty, aching, hungry,......well you get the picture. Use the rubbing alcohol on those aching muscles! Availability Fairly easy available. In hardware stores look for denatured alcohol in the paint thinner section, in pharmacies look for rubbing alcohol, also sold as 'alcohol stove fuel', 'shellac thinner', 'solvent alcohol', and more. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 16:00:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21771 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21703 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05168 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 15:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([210.50.52.229]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:59:52 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] An Angle on Flippers Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:59:41 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c1066f$580df210$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2001 22:59:52.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DDD8660:01C1066F] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net G'Day, In the process of trying to handle surf I have on occasion been trashed and had to swim to shore (most of the time actually:~)" Several friends have waxed eloquent on the use of flippers on these occasions. Now my daughter, who worked her way through college as a swimming instructor, tells me that when swimming to safety a breast stroke is more energy efficient than a freestyle. At the same time observations of gold fish suggest that perhaps for breast stroke it might be better to turn the fins on a pair of flippers through 90 degrees. What do you think and is it possible to buy flippers like this - if I ever figure out to make them and they actually happen to work will I make a fortune and win the undying gratitude of failed surfers!! All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 17:04:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12112 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12093 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:02:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Pipeguy55_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18750 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 17:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pipeguy55_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.b7.1049af56 (25510) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <b7.1049af56.2877abac_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:02:52 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayking in NYC on National TV To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/5/01 5:12:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tgamble_at_syllog.com writes: > Today I was interviewed by ABC Nightly News for a story about > Geocaching. This is a hide and seek game people play with GPS units. > > I play the game using my kayak in New York City. I am not sure how much > of it will make it past the editors, but they took a lot of shots of me > paddling around in Hells Gate and Interviewed me from my boat. Hello Tim. I just saw that report you mentioned. They apparently cut out all the good parts and mostly went with the cute family in the woods. Personally, it would have been better if the whole story was about geocaching by kayak. Nice boat, by the way, looks exactly like mine! Steve Schmitz City Island, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 6 22:45:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24997 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24940 Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23315 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-6-45.oz.net [216.39.135.109]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA14173 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re:[Paddlewise] Garden Point Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:52:31 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEMELICFAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Brad Crain wrote: >>>>>>.Two years ago, there were bear warning signs posted at Garden Point campsite, on the way to Esperanza Inlet, B.C. The signs said "don't camp here unless you want to be run off in the middle of the night by the marauding bear". Does anyone know the current status of Garden Point? Is the "bad bear" still around? Is it safe to camp there yet?<<<<<<<<< Its been nearly 20 years since I was at Garden Point but there was a tour group using it when I was there even way back then. That got me to thinking. There may not be any more bears there than at other well used camp spots, but an outfitter who wanted to keep "his" campsite clear of the non-paying riffraff kayakers might have put up the sign to scare them off. If so the fear instilled by the "known" hazard apparently works even years later. I was once with a group of six (in three doubles) in the Queen Charlotte Islands for three weeks. At that time Benjamin Point supposedly had a problem bear (reportedly one that liked to chew on hypalon) in the area. One of our group was sick and needed a rest and lunch break. Benjamin Point had the only good landing site around. I wanted to get out and stretch my legs a bit too. I didn't see any bears, and visibility was good for some distance around, but no one else would even get out of the kayaks and they were plenty nervous just being in the shallows near the shore eating lunch. I had a heck of a time even getting them to land for a few seconds to rotate partners (to try and help the sick paddler's kayak to move faster). It was the first and last trip I ever did in a double kayak (for lots of reasons besides this). Only bear we saw was later that same day on the beach quite near to where we finally camped. It was only about 4 miles overland (as the bear travels) from Benjamin Point, it might even have been the same "problem" bear, but we had no prior warnings about this spot so everyone was reasonably comfortable camping there. I'd call some of the local shops and ask about the sign. Let us know what you find out. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 7 01:43:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19159 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19154 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11600 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip30.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.30]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f678h6i05395; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B46CB82.C16886C6_at_pacifier.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:42:42 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garden Point References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEMELICFAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt Broze wrote: > > Brad Crain wrote: > >>>>>>.Two years ago, there were bear warning signs posted at > Garden Point campsite, on the way to Esperanza Inlet, B.C. > The signs said "don't camp here unless you want to be run > off in the middle of the night by the marauding bear". > > Does anyone know the current status of Garden Point? > Is the "bad bear" still around? Is it safe to camp there yet?<<<<<<<<< > > Its been nearly 20 years since I was at Garden Point but there was a tour > group using it when I was there even way back then. [snip] > > I was once with a group of six (in three doubles) in the Queen Charlotte > Islands for three weeks. At that time Benjamin Point supposedly had a > problem bear (reportedly one that liked to chew on hypalon) in the area. [snip] Brad, I have no current info on Garden Point, but in '97 we saw tons of sign there. It being a popular campsite, could be a bear is habituated to seeking food from the unwary. BTW, Benjy Point used to have the same reputation, but as Matt says, which beach in the Charlottes _doesn't_ have a bear on it??!! We shared the beach with a very young bear there in '98 ... who did not care about us or our salami. The bear just mungled about in the seaweed and other wrack about 100 yards off for 15-20 minutes, ignoring us completely. In the Charlottes, Parks Canada is pretty good about monitoring human-bear intwractions, and placing spots off-limits when problems occur. Not so on Garden Point. Good trees there for running food way high, FWIW. I pitched on the small islet slightly off-shore for the illusion of isolation from the bear. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 7 01:57:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22593 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22588 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zetnet.co.uk (root_at_irwell.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.48]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20181 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 01:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] (man-s041.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.168]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with ESMTP id f678vOD20543 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:24 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 09:57:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Norwegian Paddling Questions From: Keith W Robertson <news_at_fachwen.org> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B76C8DA1.191C%news_at_fachwen.org> In-Reply-To: <200107062120.OAA22653_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The coast is very crowded with shore-line property around Bergen, it's much prettier and kayak friendly the further North you go. Last year two of us took the ferry from Newcastle (UK) to Bergen. We travelled with our boats and no car. We then took another ferry North to Malloy, though you don't have to go as far. We then paddled south to Bergen. The scenery is stunning anywhere in the Fjord region. As the coast is mainly steepish sided cliffs finding landing spots and camping can be a little tricky - but not impossible. It is possible to camp anywhere in Norway so long as you are more that around 100m from any dwelling and leave no trace (especially toilet paper!). We had no problems at all in this respect. Finding good streams was difficult in summer as we tended to travel as far west as possible and the land was more low-lying, we ended up getting our water from taps every other day! Good for meeting people! If you have good maps (we used 1:50 000) then navigation is easy. The topography is quite flexible in that if the weather is bad numerous protected 'inside passages' are possible. A 'really good' spot is the Sollund area, complete with highly regarded bakery / ferry terminal. There are 2 types of ferries - the large 'cruise ship type' which we used to move up the coast, and fast twin hulled types. You could easily catch one of these to and from any paddling area up North if time was short. It's not a good idea to meet these on the water... Travelling by road I think would take much longer and be more expensive... We took all our food with us for 2 weeks in the boats, so we were completely independent except for water. Keith > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:47:09 -0500 > From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> > Subject: [Paddlewise] Norwegian Paddling Questions > > Hello all, > > to start my return to the list off right, I have a couple questions. > Fares to Norway are cheap this summer, so I am thinking of heading up > to either Stavanger or Bergen for a week of paddling third week in > August. I'd love some destination recommendations and to hear some > tips and good resource links. I'd prefer to not have to rent a car > and will be bringing the Feathercraft so don't need any outfitting. > Thanks! > > - -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 7 11:20:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11950 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11945 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14756 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from node1fe95.a2000.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f67IIrR08876 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:18:53 -0400 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Reply-To: patrick_at_patrickmaun.com Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 19:16:46 -0600 X-Sender: patrick_at_patrickmaun.com X-Originating-Host: node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:18:53 GMT X-Mailer: WebMail Check v2.3.21 (2000-7-19) X-Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Mac_PowerPC), JavaScript: On Message-ID: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.9945299338873_at_patrickmaun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hey all, thanks for tips so far for my trip to Norway. Here is a problem I think I am going to have to deal with eventually. SAS (who has the cheap tickets) only allows one piece of luggage at 48lbs. This is standard not due to the cheap tickets. This is not wonderful as I am sure my Khatsalano with accessories comes in at 50lbs something, not to mention the problem of tent, food, clothes etc. How have others out there dealt with this? I bet most airlines restrict baggage for inter-conntinental travel. As kayakers we are probably almost always over the limit unless outfitters are used. Any ideas of how to get my stuff cheaply from here (Amsterdam) to there (Norway)? I looked into the "excessive baggage" costs and they state "The charge per kilo of excess baggage on SAS flights is 1.5% of the highest normal Economy Class fare, irrespective of the class paid for and traveled. " Ouch. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 7 15:54:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05502 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05497 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13267 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.149] (node1fe95.a2000.nl [24.132.254.149]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f67MrVO01334 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:53:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330104b76d9ff2b257_at_[24.132.254.149]> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20010707153918.8b1f23b8_at_pop.dmci.net> References: <3.0.6.16.20010707153918.8b1f23b8_at_pop.dmci.net> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:51:45 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks for the tips so far. I think the problem with shipping it with UPS is I don't have tons of time, and nowhere to ship it to. I think I will look into sending it via rail and then picking the boat up at the train station. I'll report back what I find on that front. I'll also check with the airlines on what it will cost in extra charges. Anyone else have any ideas? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 7 22:03:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26793 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26787 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01727 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20715 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19143 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 22:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09155 Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thomnet1.thomcs.net (thomnet1.thomcs.net [63.105.231.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26044 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckmoye (ts2-109.thomcs.net [63.105.231.109]) by thomnet1.thomcs.net (Build 101 8.9.3/NT-8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA01942 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 23:06:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01c10763$b58789c0$6de7693f_at_ckmoye> From: "Cliff and Kim Moye" <ckmoye_at_staroute.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] pro-sizes 35mm cameras or not Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:08:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello all - I have had an Olympus Stylus for the last two years and liked it, except that the sliding lens cover and switch fell apart. It cost over $100 to fix and 6 months later it's shot again. Come to find out, it's a very common problem. Thanks to last weeks thread, I went out and bought a Pentax IQzoom 105. It looks like it will fill the bill perfectly. The camera shop told me that the 105 is no longer in production, but is being replaced by a 95mm model. The IQzoom 95 runs about $220. We will try it out on a 20 mile trip down the Cedar River tomorrow, Iowa is HOT this time of year. Cliff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 09:46:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03261 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03256 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08568 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18446 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19275 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 09:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19695 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 05:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4.america.net (atl4.america.net [199.170.121.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12953 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 05:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max2-39.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.95]) by atl4.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09262 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 08:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B485811.8030309_at_gsinet.net> Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 08:54:41 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] L. L. Bean Sea Kayaking Symposium. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi. How many of us are going to the L. L. Bean symposium this weekend? I will be there and I will bring my Paddlewise T shirt. If you see me on the water I will be paddling a yellow decked Kajak Sport Viviane, drop over and say hi! Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 16:46:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10190 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10185 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25998 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10991 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19371 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01493 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:35:27 -0700 (PDT) From: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05808 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MJAkayaker_at_aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.d0.1829a3b7 (663) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d0.1829a3b7.287a2c19_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:35:21 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Inspired by Doug's storm paddles and Duane's exciting crossings I decided that it was time to stroke my way out of the comfortable confines of flatwater and seek the kind of paddling that would put my skills to a true test. I packed up my gear and headed out for that most dangerous of locations, the Texas A&M CC University pool. I know what you are thinking. Does he have the bracing skill to handle the rebounding 6 inch waves created by the cannon-ballers and belly-floppers at the pool's far end? Will the concrete pool edges splinter his kayak like one of those pacific island reefs? How will he get out if he gets pinned in those tight little 90 degree corners? Will the floating lane markers with their steel cables grab a paddle, capsize the kayak and trap the hapless paddler like some great kelp beds on steroids? (Is there a recommended method for attaching bolt cutters to the deck for freeing yourself from steel cables?) Being a safety minded member of the paddlewise community, I had prepared for all these hazards. We had the pool reserved to ourselves this time. No belly-floppers making waves or lap-swimmers protected by those deadly lane markers on this trip. I was not about to risk my new Mariner to the pool edges, so I just borrowed a plastic sit-on-top. Same with my nice greenland paddle. I borrowed a cheap one with nylon blades that I could use to pry my way out of those tight little corners without suffering any paddle abuse guilt. What really made this trip dangerous was the wildlife I would be encountering. I know that in Australia you deal with box jellys and great whites (sounds kind of like what I order at Dunkin Doughnuts). On the west coast you face those crazed sea-lions doing balancing acts on your kayaks (no doubt auditioning for Sea World or Bay Watch). In Alaska you have your bears ( color coded for hazard level as follows: black climbs tree after you, brown pushes tree over with you in it, and white chases you down on land, water, or ice). And on the East Coast you have those maniac boaters and jet-skiers who either find kayaks totally invisible or see bull's-eyes painted on them. (It is unfair to compare these people with the animals listed above. My apologies to the animals) .Despite the seriousness of the hazards described above, I was facing an even more frightening prospect: TWENTY-TWO 11 AND 12 YEAR OLDS WANTING THEIR FIRST KAYAK LESSON. Things started off deceptively well. They put-on their life jackets, gathered around and listened attentively as I started to explain how to hold a paddle and then demonstrated how the stroke works. As I explained ruddering and "right only' and "left only" paddling to turn the kayaks I noticed the signs. The slight fidgetting, the glazed look, and finally the eyes simply rolling back in their heads. I had lost them. If I got them in the pool quickly I still might be able to salvage some control. We herded them to the pool, gave them a quick swim test, and let them try a little "land paddling" on their own. Note: Herding cats, as seen on a recent commercial, is easy work compared to keeping 11/12 year olds organized and under control. A quick "kayak in the pool" demo of the stroke and turning techniques and we were ready for the moment of truth, kids in the kayaks. One stepped on hand and three paddle whacks to my head later I thought things were going pretty well. Then that piercing, debilitating call started "Can I be nexxxxt? Is it myyyyyyy turn yettttt?" I tried to stay strong and focused but eventually it must have gotten to me. It seemed that I could no longer tell directions. I could be heard on numerous occasions yelling "paddle on your left, your left, YOUR OTHER LEFT!!!" Sometimes forward and back seemed to be totally beyond my grasp (or at least my ability to communicate it to the kids). Everyone did finish their practice and they even took some laps in the doubles. Just like adults, some commands they exhanged had more to do with their partners character than paddling direction, but they all made it around the pool. We pulled the kayaks out of the pool and then, possibly suffering some delayed effects of the earlier paddle blows to my head, I made the mistake. As I looked up I suddenly understood how it must feel to see a tanker come out of the fog just yards away or to look 10ft down into the wave trough and see rocks instead of water. At times like that you need some luck to go with your skill. I really needed some luck now because I WAS STANDING DIRECTLY BETWEEN 22 STARVED KIDS AND THE PIZZA The next few seconds were a blurr. I'm not sure if I did a 360 or a 720, but I came through without broken bones. However you should be warned that the word "Pizza" screamed by a goup of young girls far exceeds all OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) limits on noise exposure. Fortunately most of my hearing came back before the end of the day. Finally the kids where fed and the equipment was loaded back on the trailer. I had faced the challenge, succeeded in my goal (no drowned kids / none of my blood spilled), and was feeling pride in my accomplishment. Then it hit me. Tommorrow, we have to take these kids out for a real paddle. What have I got myself into? Oh for ease of a simple 20 mile crossing in the fog or the relaxation of rock gardens in 40 mph winds and 10 ft seas ! Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 16:50:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11550 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11526 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28156 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11577 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19389 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23779 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web5104.mail.yahoo.com (web5104.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.74]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21191 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010708225040.7179.qmail_at_web5104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.58.92.10] by web5104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:50:40 PDT Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Lew Crenshaw <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Cc: patrick_at_patrickmaun.com In-Reply-To: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.9945299338873_at_patrickmaun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Patrick, I ran into the same problem on a trip to Dominica last summer. I had received my Khats as a wedding present from my wife just prior to leaving for our honeymoon. The Khats, with all its accessories, PFD, bilge pump and paddle float, exceeded the 70 lb. luggage weight limit (We were allowed a 100 lb luggage weight limit. We did not know that until we checked in). Since it was either our suitcases or the boat, I was forced to stash it in an airport locker. I weighed the Khats on a nice doctor's scale after the trip and the boat plus its accessories weighed somewhere in the neighborhood of 60+ lbs. The frame and skin only came in around the upper 40's. I wrote to Feathercraft about this, and they pretty much said tough luck. On other airbound trips, I made sure to weigh the boat before I went to the airport. On my last trip, the Khats weighed in at 68 lbs. on the airport scale. I love the boat, but have been nothing but thoroughly disppointed in what I perceive as false advertising by Feathercraft and their nonchalent response to the problem. Lew Crenshaw --- Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> wrote: > Hey all, > > thanks for tips so far for my trip to Norway. Here > is a problem I > think I am going to have to deal with eventually. > SAS (who has the > cheap tickets) only allows one piece of luggage at > 48lbs. This is > standard not due to the cheap tickets. This is not > wonderful as I > am sure my Khatsalano with accessories comes in at > 50lbs something, > not to mention the problem of tent, food, clothes > etc. > > How have others out there dealt with this? I bet > most airlines restrict > baggage for inter-conntinental travel. As kayakers > we are probably > almost always over the limit unless outfitters are > used. Any ideas > of how to get my stuff cheaply from here (Amsterdam) > to there (Norway)? > > > I looked into the "excessive baggage" costs and they > state "The charge > per kilo of excess baggage on SAS flights is 1.5% of > the highest > normal Economy Class fare, irrespective of the class > paid for and > traveled. " > > Ouch. > > -Patrick > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or > suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must > assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings > copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 18:04:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04376 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04371 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horus.its.uow.edu.au (horus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15709 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicentre28.uow.edu.au (unicentre28.uow.edu.au [130.130.132.58]) by horus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19040 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:04:05 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20010709105820.00709824_at_pop.uow.edu.au> X-Sender: ratten_at_pop.uow.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:58:20 +1000 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: [Paddlewise] Flying FKs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My experience flying with kayaks is between Australia, NZ and the US. This has taught me: a/ The goalposts move. The rules that apply for one trip do not apply for the next. b/ Rule A can also apply on the same trip. That is, the rules going one way, change when you fly home. c/ Different strokes for different folks; [read airlines]. And the size of the airline/aircraft is not a factor. That is, I have had problems flying overweight with the bigger airlines, but no problems with smaller operations. d/ Overall, it is getting tougher to fly with a kayak, unless you are willing to pay. If you are taking a kayak on a trip, you are obviously carrying on a lot of ancilliary gear. I can see no way around this, unless you are willing to buy/hire gear when you get to your destination. e/ The only way around this conundrum is to fly with a SO/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/husband who is willing to travel with kit weighing 10lbs or less. y'all have a good day, PeterR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 18:13:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07281 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07276 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf10bis.bellsouth.net (mail110.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21776 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.120.223]) by imf10bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010709011357.VRJR18150.imf10bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:13:57 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Lew Crenshaw'" <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com>, "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:24:59 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000b01c10815$f8bb6290$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20010708225040.7179.qmail_at_web5104.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I really don't understand what your gripe with Feathercraft is? Are you blaming them for the airline's policies or because you didn't want to pay overweight or didn't check out the situation before you flew? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. Sounds too much like Waaaaaa! cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 18:15:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07507 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07502 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf02bis.bellsouth.net (mail002.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22101 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.120.223]) by imf02bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010709011606.URNQ11610.imf02bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:16:06 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:27:09 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000c01c10816$45d89890$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <jUsT.aNoTheR.mEsSaGe.iD.9945299338873_at_patrickmaun.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Most airlines allow you to some form of accompanied airfreight which is cheaper than a normal freight rate. You drop off the item at their freight office, and then pick it up after you leave the terminal. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 18:59:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20001 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19996 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Pipeguy55_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17506 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pipeguy55_at_aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.d0.18272eef (17085) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d0.18272eef.287a69fd_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:59:25 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/8/01 7:52:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lew_sa_at_yahoo.com writes: > I weighed the Khats on a nice doctor's scale after the > trip and the boat plus its accessories weighed > somewhere in the neighborhood of 60+ lbs. The frame > and skin only came in around the upper 40's. I wrote > to Feathercraft about this, and they pretty much said > tough luck. > > On other airbound trips, I made sure to weigh the boat > before I went to the airport. On my last trip, the > Khats weighed in at 68 lbs. on the airport scale. I > love the boat, but have been nothing but thoroughly > disppointed in what I perceive as false advertising by > Feathercraft and their nonchalent response to the > problem. > > Lew Crenshaw Lew, What exactly did you expect FeatherCraft to do for you? They say the boat weighs 45 lbs., which it does, so how are they supposed to help you with your inability to handle the logistics of air travel. If you had checked your TOTAL weight requirements and made prior arrangements like countless thousands of other people do, there would be no problem. I have had numerous dealings with FeatherCraft and I don't believe you when you say they were nonchalant. You perceive false advertising and a nonchalant response (they pretty much said tough luck) Do you perceive this as a disagreement or as me telling you to go *&%$ yourself? Lesson 1: Plan ahead Lesson 2: Don't attack a reputable company and expect no one will call you on it. Cheers, Steven Schmitz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 20:54:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26316 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26311 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00474 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12026 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19458 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16590 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f127.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.127]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10759 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:45:20 -0700 Received: from 63.22.116.108 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 01:45:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.22.116.108] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:45:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F127JbrzvsTDWWcuZcG00004ca9_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2001 01:45:20.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFBD1FC0:01C10818] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Just try to fly with a hardshell kayak before you get too angry with Feathercraft or anyone else who touts the portablility of their boats. When I went from Zurich back to Chicago I had my slalom boat on the plane. $300 one way. Somehow, on the way out they considered it excess baggage but did not charge me. Another person on the same flight with his slalom boat [he got to the airport a few hours later than I did and dealt with a different baggage person] paid $600. To Chicago, same flight, same airplane, we flew together. When he complained after he got home the airline's reaction was that I should have paid $600. I guess it really makes you decide in a big way how important paddling is. Jim, who no longer races and pays big bucks to ship his boat, Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 8 21:21:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05267 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05262 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16604 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.2f.178a326a (26120) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f.178a326a.287a8b46_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:21:26 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/8/01 4:48:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MJAkayaker_at_aol.com writes: > Then it hit > > > me. Tommorrow, we have to take these kids out for a real paddle. What have > I > > Mark, You truly are hardcore! Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 02:34:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA07538 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07533 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28319 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip203.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.203]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f699XRi21977; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B497A4A.6B87AA50_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 02:32:58 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Recently, I have been experimenting paddling my high-volume single kayak with rudder deployed and without. And, I think I may have discovered something: when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy the rudder. The difference is sometimes dramatic, on windy crossings where I am forced to shift to rudder-down paddling, with the symptoms developing within minutes, after a previous hour or so of symptom-free paddling when the rudder was not deployed. This effect occurs on day paddles and on multi-day trips. And, thinking back on longer trips I did over the past two-three years, I believe it has extended over time, as well. In other words, it is not just a recent phenomenon. I think what happens is that when using the rudder, I get into a more repetitive paddling motion which "locks" the wrist into the same configuration, so that the same tendons are stressed with each stroke. OTOH, with no rudder down, I have to vary my stroke (and paddle angle) with almost every swing of my arms to maintain my course. Thus, no two successive strokes stress exactly the same tendons the same way. I've been plagued with tendonitis in my right wrist for seven or eight years, often associated with hard paddling, and sometimes with hard use of hand tools, so to find that my kayak's **rudder** is a tendonitis-aggravator is real surprise! Anybody else noticed this? Is my rationale biomechanically reasonable? Thanks for the feedback. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 07:02:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00396 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00391 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14151 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.e3.173ba50d (4404) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e3.173ba50d.287b135c_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:02:04 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/9/01 2:35:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes: > And, I think I may have discovered something: > when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of > feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy > the > Dave, I find just the opposite. With the rudder down in rough conditions, I can focus on a smooth, ergonomic forward stroke, and prevent injuries, especially over long distances. I find that all of those corrective strokes put a lot more strain on the body, especially since the correcting often has to be done on one side more than the other. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 07:12:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03487 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03482 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22175 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip130.ast6.pacifier.com [66.43.10.130]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69ECLi26347; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49BBA9.64095F26_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 07:11:53 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis References: <200107091044.f69Aiw896765_at_mail4.enter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" wrote: > Feathered paddle? No. Unfeathered. > Recently, I have been experimenting paddling my high-volume single kayak with > rudder deployed and without. And, I think I may have discovered something: > when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of > feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy the > rudder. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 07:16:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03883 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03877 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23054 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-243-241.s495.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.243.241] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #2) id 15Jbq1-0000Gf-00 ; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3B49BD73.7425D216_at_erols.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:19:31 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> CC: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis References: <3B497A4A.6B87AA50_at_pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This may be completely unrelated, but I thought that throwing it into the mix may shed some light on Dave's question and at least get mine out there. I took my Silhouette out on thursday in a Bay with about 20 knot quarter beam winds, reasonable (for the fetch) directional 1-1.5 foot chop. I had never dropped my skeg on any of my boats before, and thought that this seemed the ideal opportunity, as the trip was to experiment with the boat and a new Greenland stick I just carved. Immediately, the kayak maintained a straighter course without effort, but the chop had a far greater effect on the stability of the boat- could actually feel a bit of an additional 'tug' on the hull when hit with the quartering seas. Did this for a while and retracted it again, the kayak seemed as stable as before. I can imagine why this could happen, an increase of surface area to the seas, but not to the extent that it did. BTW, I have the skeg adjusted to about 3/4 of the throw, will not extend to it's full capabilities. One thing that relates to Dave's posting is that the combination of new factors flared up my carpal tunnel syndrome as I wasn't wearing my wrist braces that day. I don't normally have a problem now with my feathered Euro, but did with the stick. I will have to work this out with wrist braces on a still day to see where it is happening. Could be the lack of motion that Dave infers. Dave Kruger wrote: > > Recently, I have been experimenting paddling my high-volume single kayak with > rudder deployed and without. And, I think I may have discovered something: > when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of > feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy the > rudder. The difference is sometimes dramatic, on windy crossings where I am > forced to shift to rudder-down paddling, with the symptoms developing within > minutes, after a previous hour or so of symptom-free paddling when the rudder > was not deployed. > > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:40:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29347 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29323 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20131 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13835 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19738 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09815 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 05:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f38.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01978 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 05:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 05:58:44 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.206 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:58:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.206] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 07:58:44 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F38zhad2VqKwRPQIWDO00006570_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jul 2001 12:58:44.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2A03D80:01C10876] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave - I know nothing about physiology but I can think of a possible reason for your tendonitis when using the rudder. Is it maybe because when the weather is rough enough to require a rudder it is also rough enough to cause you to grip your paddle a lot harder? I know that big and constant whitewater tires my hands and forearms a lot more than easy rivers or calm lakes. And I believe it is from the death grip I get when nervous. Tendon pain and tension go hand in hand. [or is it wrist and wrist?]. An experiment would be to use the rudder less, even when it is deployed, in favor of some turning strokes or do the open-your-hand-on-every-push-phase-of-the-stroke thing and see if that helps. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:42:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01135 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01130 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23941 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14852 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19750 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17772 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web5105.mail.yahoo.com (web5105.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.75]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA16819 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010709132103.4442.qmail_at_web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.58.92.10] by web5105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 06:21:03 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Lew Crenshaw <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Cc: bob_at_sinkthestink.com In-Reply-To: <000b01c10815$f8bb6290$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob, I thought my gripe was pretty clear. The Khats-S advertised weight is 45 lbs. With my Khats-S packed in its Feathercraft bag without the rudder, but including a PFD, bilge pump, paddlefloat, and three nylon stuffsacks used to keep the frame organized(no paddle b/c I carried that on), the whole package weighed 68 lbs. last time I flew with the boat. Last time I checked, the extra gear didn't weigh 28lbs combined. Sorry if the complaint came off as whiney, but I guess that's what I get for complaining in the first place. I fully accept responsibility for not checking the baggage weight limits of the flight and for not weighing the boat beforehand. I make sure I do that before I bring the kayak with me on a trip now. Like I said before, though, I love the boat and wouldn't give it up for anything. That is, except for a new regular cut Sealskin Khats. Lew Crenshaw --- Bob Denton <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> wrote: > I really don't understand what your gripe with > Feathercraft is? Are you > blaming them for the airline's policies or because > you didn't want to > pay overweight or didn't check out the situation > before you flew? > > I'm sorry, I just don't get it. Sounds too much like > Waaaaaa! > > cya > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:44:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01324 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01319 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25095 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14916 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19761 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18827 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20558 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-63.210.209.115.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [63.210.209.115]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA17036; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c1087b$5233a340$73d1d23f_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <Bagboater_at_yahoogroups.com> Cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <001101c10872$47548560$d817ac3e_at_bill.samson> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Travelling with boat in Europe Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:30:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net There are "secrets' to this which I hope some of our European bagboaters will make comments on. They are the ones living with the kind of restrictions that Patrick raises as a potential problem. The only answer I have (other than trickier ones that are only semi-legal and I won't suggest) is to really carry as much as possible on board making this seem small and weightless even while your neck tendons are showing the stress of this hefty hand baggage. Those with Feathercrafts can roll up the skin real tight making it appear like a small duffel and carry that on board with you. The weight of the skin varies from around 13 pounds to 20 pounds or so for a K-1 (I have not weighed it). Obviously , you have to deal with restrictions such as those rectangular templates that they often ask you to put your hand baggage through to check its confirmation for size restribtions. I am not certain how well the rolled up skin will fit in that. This advice is from earlier days when those templates did not exist to. The other thing to do is to make the checked through package look as small as possible. Boats like Feathercrafts have an advantage in that they have black carrying bags that because of the color and cinching straps tend to look smaller. That won't fool an airline person at the counter who has you put the thing on a scale but, if there is anything like curbside check-in or express check in, in which the "weighing in" is visual, then you have a better chance of not being hit with excess baggage costs. Airlines are getting stricter all the time and the application of rules more and more capricious depending on individual airline personnel. Like anything in life, you can get better treatment with a combination of spiel skills and your appearence. Maybe some of the seakayaking symposiums should have one lecture that might be titled "Charm School, Or the Art of Slipping Things By The Airlines." It obviously would benefit folding kayakers but would also be useful for anyone traveling with tons of camping gear for an extensive trip via kayaks they will rent at their destination or use with an organized tour. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:46:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01545 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01540 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25572 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15020 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19772 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21340 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf00bis.bellsouth.net (mail100.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25016 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.124]) by imf00bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010709133259.DUFB9796.imf00bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:32:59 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Lew Crenshaw'" <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:43:44 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <001001c1087d$34e48410$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20010709132103.4442.qmail_at_web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I thought my gripe was pretty clear. The Khats-S > advertised weight is 45 lbs. I still don't understand. I believe in your e-mail you said the boat weighed 40 lbs?! That's 5 lbs less than advertised. My first boat was a WS Sealution II that was advertised at 57 lbs and actually weight 72 ready for the water! Manufacturers are notorious for using hull weight and excluding rudders, pedals, hatches and other "accessories". Feathercraft seems to be an exception. My K-Light weighs as advertised. I don't know how well the Khats will do, but I have been able to pack my K-Light and all my paddle gear in one large Samsonite hard shell with wheels, including the back pack but excluding the coaming, which I hand carry. Airlines seem less interested in "business" luggage. Another option is it is sometimes not that expensive to upgrade to First or Business class and weight limits are greater and overweight is often overlooked. Another point is trying to book a flight on an off day when the flight isn't crowded and weight limits are not strictly enforced. Cu Bob Denton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:48:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01749 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01743 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26046 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15078 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19783 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03857 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22952 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 533D39BAF; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.91), claiming to be "firewall2" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdxy4849; Mon Jul 9 10:14:50 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6PSMC>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:13:50 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F994_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'MJAkayaker_at_aol.com'" <MJAkayaker_at_aol.com>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:13:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Mark, YOU are my new hero!!! When will your comic book character be coming out! What will be the characters name.... Yak Man, Paddle Pal, or what? Rick - Poquoson, VA PS - so...... how many pots of coffee per day are you up to now? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 08:51:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03556 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03524 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28645 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16295 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA19795 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21798 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lindy.capnhq.gov (hidden-user_at_www.capnhq.gov [216.253.88.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03301 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by LINDY with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <N9W73KW8>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0500 Message-ID: <7B28CB7FDBA6D41183B100508B6C5F0AB0E973_at_LINDY> From: "Tynan, James" <JTYNAN_at_capnhq.gov> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Alaska search Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 10:08:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Been out of town for a few days [kayaking in Florida] -- thought you might be interested in this one and I hope it isn't a repeat post! Suspect there will be more details on this from PW list members in the Northwest! [Story approved for reprint by me -- managing editor of the rag it was submitted to!] ======================== CORDOVA, ALASKA (CAPN) -- The Anchorage Polaris Squadron was called upon to participate in a search near Cordova, Alaska June 30 and July 1, 2001. Two 20-year-old men, residents of Cordova, disappeared after departing in a kayak from a cabin in Deep Bay on the north end of Hawkins Island. The kayak was found beached on the north shore of the bay wedged in a rock outcropping. There was no sign of the two men and no indication that they had gone ashore, troopers said. The men were not wearing life jackets. CAP 1st Lt. Ben Padgett transported two Alaska Search and Rescue Dogs and their handlers from Anchorage to Cordova in a Cessna 206. The Coast Guard transported three handlers and two Search and Rescue dogs in a C-130 from Kodiak to participate in the search. The Alaska State Troopers provided on-scene coordination for the search. On Saturday, the search evolved into a community-wide effort with more than 120 people scouring the remote area in 19 private vessels, two Coast Guard skiffs, four airplanes, and two helicopters. The Coast Guard helicopter was equipped with a Forward-Looking Infrared (FLIR) imaging device that was used for searching areas of heavy tree cover. 1st Lt Padgett and a Cordova Fire Department spotter conducted an aerial search for the pair on the southern side of Hawkins Island. Two dog teams searched the water in Deep Bay from a skiff, and two dog teams searched the land surrounding the bay. Six Cordova businesses and the Cordova Fisherman's Union donated food, supplies and volunteers. After searchers decided that the two men could not have survived, the effort was refocused Saturday night to recover remains. At that time, the Coast Guard suspended its involvement in the search. On Sunday morning, the CAP aircrew resumed an aerial search. The Alaska State Troopers suspended the organized search on Sunday afternoon. Cordova is a small fishing community located on Prince William Sound in southcentral Alaska. [Story submitted by Alaska Wing Senior Member Karen Padgett] ===================== Jim JAMES F. TYNAN Editor, Civil Air Patrol News Civil Air Patrol National Headquarters 105 S. Hansell St. Maxwell AFB, AL 36064-2758 E-mail: jtynan_at_capnhq.gov Voice: (334) 953-5700 Fax: (334) 953-4245 Web site: http://www.capnhq.gov Civil Air Patrol: Where imagination takes flight! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 09:00:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05569 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05536 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com (asteroid.pacifier.com [199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04840 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip79.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.79]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69FxeM11040; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49D4D0.1485D276_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 08:59:12 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis References: <F38zhad2VqKwRPQIWDO00006570_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net James Tibensky wrote: > > Dave - > > I know nothing about physiology but I can think of a possible reason for > your tendonitis when using the rudder. Is it maybe because when the weather > is rough enough to require a rudder it is also rough enough to cause you to > grip your paddle a lot harder? I know that big and constant whitewater > tires my hands and forearms a lot more than easy rivers or calm lakes. And > I believe it is from the death grip I get when nervous. Tendon pain and > tension go hand in hand. [or is it wrist and wrist?]. > > An experiment would be to use the rudder less, even when it is deployed, in > favor of some turning strokes or do the open-your-hand-on-every-push- > phase-of-the-stroke thing and see if that helps. Thanks for the insightful reply. I've pretty much been down those roads already, James, especially the death grip (which was my mode the first couple years of paddling). Interestingly, it seems that when I am working against a stiff headwind, I have less of a tendency to get the tinglies! In fact, when I shift the paddle over so that the right hand delivers more pull, it lessens the problem. Slide the paddle the other way, and it's worse. Go figure ... -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 09:00:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06143 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06105 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05823 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [139.142.113.191] (helo=139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com) by mail.islandnet.com with SMTP id 15JdSn-000GPf-00 ; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 09:00:45 -0700 Received: by 139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C10855.6D7C7580_at_139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:59:14 -0700 Message-ID: <01C10855.6D7C7580_at_139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com> From: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> To: "'BRAD'" <BRAD_at_mth.pdx.edu>, "Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Garden Point Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:51:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id JAA06112 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Yup! That bad bear is still around, no one has made any effort to either shoot the bear or move it. So people usually avoid the place altogether. Kirby -----Original Message----- From: BRAD [SMTP:BRAD_at_mth.pdx.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 8:01 AM To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Garden Point Two years ago, there were bear warning signs posted at Garden Point campsite, on the way to Esperanza Inlet, B.C. The signs said "don't camp here unless you want to be run off in the middle of the night by the marauding bear". Does anyone know the current status of Garden Point? Is the "bad bear" still around? Is it safe to camp there yet? Brad Crain Bradford R. Crain Dept. of Mathematical Sciences Portland State Univ. 724 SW Harrison St. 334 Neuberger Hall Portland, Or. 97201 e-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu phone: 503.725.3127 fax: 503.725.3661 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 09:40:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17360 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17355 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02860 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [139.142.113.41] (helo=139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com) by mail.islandnet.com with SMTP id 15Je4b-000Kyn-00 ; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 09:39:50 -0700 Received: by 139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C1085A.E472EB60_at_139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:38:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01C1085A.E472EB60_at_139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com> From: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> To: "'Evan Dallas'" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com>, "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:34:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id JAA17356 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello Everyone, I just returned from the Brokens Islands, as for the permit to camp at Toquart Bay. Camping is $10 a night without and $5 a night with a permit. As for parking in the "traditional" areas you don't have to pay. For some odd reason the Ministry had forgotten to consider kayakers use many of the forestry sites as jumping off points and did not consider charging kayakers when they leave their vehicles. Sorry Dave, you just shelled out $10.00 for their beer fund! No one else I talked to in the islands had paid either when they left. I hope this clears things up. Kirby -----Original Message----- From: Evan Dallas [SMTP:Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:21 AM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: >>>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:34:16 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Toquart Bay Info (Vancouver Island, BC) 1. Now costs $CDN 10/night to camp there ($CDN 5/night with annual BC Forestry pass).<<<< Does the $Cdn 10 apply to camping in the park as well, or is that still $5? >>>>2. The official rule is that parking in the trad. kayakers' lot is supposed to cost, also, but the operator is "allowing" a CG slip to supplant the annual permit<<<< I assume "CG" here is for camp ground -- so, does this mean if you buy a camp ground permit for camping in Toquart for the first night that that will cover your parking for the duration of your trip? If you get there early enough to not have to camp at Toquart, do you still need to get a CG permit just to cover your parking (I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding you...)? Evan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 11:20:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17999 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17994 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12016 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip240.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.240]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69IIci15169; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B49F560.F3754E7_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:18:08 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:34:10 -0700 References: <01C1085A.E472EB60_at_139-142-113-191.dialup.islandnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kirby Stevens wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I just returned from the Brokens Islands, as for the permit to camp at Toquart Bay. Camping is $10 a night without and $5 a night with a permit. As for parking in the "traditional" areas you don't have to pay. For some odd reason the Ministry had forgotten to consider kayakers use many of the forestry sites as jumping off points and did not consider charging kayakers when they leave their vehicles. > Sorry Dave, you just shelled out $10.00 for their beer fund! No one else I talked to in the islands had paid either when they left. No, I camped there overnight, so I got my $10 worth. Thanks for the correction. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 11:42:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26531 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26524 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oly.silverlink.net (oly.silverlink.net [209.20.168.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28732 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22394 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 11:41:51 -0700 Received: from silver170-33.silverlink.net (HELO ?209.20.170.35?) (209.20.170.33) by oly.silverlink.net with SMTP for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; 9 Jul 2001 11:41:51 -0700 Message-Id: <l03130302b76fa7294268_at_[209.20.170.35]> In-Reply-To: <200107091402.HAA00408_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:38:11 -0700 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Al Gunther <agunther_at_silverlink.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id LAA26525 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger wrote: >...I think I may have discovered something: >when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of >feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy the >rudder. The difference is sometimes dramatic, on windy crossings where I am >forced to shift to rudder-down paddling, with the symptoms developing within >minutes, after a previous hour or so of symptom-free paddling when the rudder >was not deployed. I have tendonitis problems if I get too focused on something else and end up with too tight a grip on the paddle. Possibly you concentrate on the steering and this causes you to grip the paddle more tightly. I find that by opening my upper hand during the push part of the stroke helps. I also find that using tennis elbow braces while paddling reduces the problem and I feel lots better at the end of a long paddle. Al Gunther, Kingston, WA <---- 47° 48.1'N, 122° 30.0'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 12:07:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03278 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03273 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15630 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MJAkayaker_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id 3.d5.8da00a8 (18710); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d5.8da00a8.287b5afd_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:07:41 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/9/01 10:50:59 AM Central Daylight Time, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: > When will your comic book character be coming out! What will be the > characters name.... Yak Man, Paddle Pal, or what? > > BRACE MAN -- Man of kelp. Faster than a speeding Lightning Welk (large snail, state seashell of Texas) More powerful than a sea cucumber Able to leap tall waves (up to 2 ft at least) with a single stroke. Marvel comics was very interested. After going over my paddling history they determined that the comic strip would be very cheap to produce since 90% of the scenes would simply show the bottom of an overturned kayak. Evidentally this is very easy for their artists to draw. Unfortunately discussions broke down when they demanded certain things to give BRACE MAN appeal to a broader range of people. They wanted him to paddle a 12ft plastic recreational (huge open cockpit) ruddered kayak that would change into a high powered personal watercraft when he needed to chase the bad guys. I might have gone along, but when they insisted he use a carbon-fiber, feathered Euro paddle I just had to refuse. Every one knows real hero kayakers use wooden Greenland paddles. PS: If there is any paddler of plastic, recreational, or ruddered kayaks whom I did not offend with the previous comment, please let me know since I am always looking (mostly unsuccessfully) for paddling partners. Paddlers using carbon-fiber, feathered Euro paddles need not reply since you would simply paddle off and leave me behind as soon as we started paddling into the wind. Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 12:30:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09698 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09693 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29646 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20891 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19952 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03446 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15866 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-198.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.198]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f69J8HP225130 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3B4A0120.B773C0ED_at_prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:08:16 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 7/27! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 8-year-old boy mauled by shark in Florida Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/070901/Local/ST001.shtml *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 12:32:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11558 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11530 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01899 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22106 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19961 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06005 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web5105.mail.yahoo.com (web5105.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.75]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21555 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010709191315.20923.qmail_at_web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.58.92.10] by web5105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 12:13:15 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Lew Crenshaw <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Cc: bob_at_sinkthestink.com In-Reply-To: <001001c1087d$34e48410$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob, I suppose I should have been more specific about weights. The skin weighed in at 21 lbs, frame--22 lbs, and ribs--5 lbs. The boat isn't very seaworthy in that set-up, though--no seat, coaming, hatches, etc. . . I looked back at the letter I sent to Feathercraft and the weight of the boat when outfitted with the accessories (seat, coaming, rudder, etc. . .) comes to 57 lbs. So, if you add your PFD, bilge pump, paddlefloat, and bag to hold the boat, 68 lbs. sounds like a reasonable number to me. I suppose I was naive to assume that the entire boat would weigh 45 lbs, but I wrote Feathercraft anyways. They're response was (and these are not the exact quotes), "Yeah, that's about right. That's pretty much how the industry weighs their boats," which I intrepretted as tough luck. It was no big deal, though, b/c I love the boat otherwise. Should I have weighed the boat before that first trip? Yes, of course, but it was the day before I got married and spare time was one thing I was def. short of that weekend. Now, on the rare occassion I can it with me on the trip, I pack more carefully, talk with the airline beforehand and weigh my bags before I leave for the airport. Lew Crenshaw --- Bob Denton <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> wrote: > > I thought my gripe was pretty clear. The Khats-S > > advertised weight is 45 lbs. > > I still don't understand. I believe in your e-mail > you said the boat > weighed 40 lbs?! That's 5 lbs less than advertised. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 12:34:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12417 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12412 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.academicplanet.com (mail.academicplanet.com [209.245.216.197]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05473 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from academicplanet.com (dialup-64.158.35.174.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [64.158.35.174]) by mail.academicplanet.com (8.11.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f69JXWV27510 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:33:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3B4A22D6.C1650B29_at_academicplanet.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 14:32:06 -0700 From: Marilyn Kircus <mkircus_at_academicplanet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Padre Island Trip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Fellow Paddlers, I just sent out the following information to the Texas Paddling Clubs and lists. But if any of you want to join us, you are welcome. You can fly in to Corpus Christi - North Padre Island is only about 30 minutes away. Bob Griebel has put up a web page with information on the Padre Island trip. I think it looks pretty accurate except you will have to purchase a pass to get on to the beach - I think it costs $10 and is good for a year. (This is a National Seashore). I'll not get there until after 10:00P so I'm looking for some early scouts that can stake us out a lot of territory so we can all be together. I drive a royal blue Ford Focus hatchback and will have a blue and white Eddyline Raven plus 2 white water kayaks on top - one yellow and one turquoise. I'm real hard to miss and I'll leave my car near the driving area on the beach. Each of you is responsible for all your gear and food plus water containers. Bring something for shade. There are bathrooms, showers, and water about 1/2 mile up the beach. The new web page is up for SurfFest 2001 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SurfFest/files/Web/Fest2001.htm> - Labor Day Weekend on Padre Island Marilyn Kircus mkircus_at_academicplanet.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:38:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19621 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19615 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:38:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26868 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.65.16e92735 (3968); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65.16e92735.287b7e33_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:37:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 8-year-old boy mauled by shark in Florida To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net glad you mentioned that....today's Miami Herald carried...ONT HE SAME PAGE the following stories: BOY HURT BY SHARK VERY ILL (i believe the uncle dragged kid and shark to shore and was able to pry open the shark's mouth - this was an update after the arm was re-attached) WOMAN INJURED IN GATOR ATTACK (woman walking her dog (yum yum for gators) 8' gator grabbed her left leg (he missed the dog) and pulled her to the ground...let go once she was on the ground (musta realized he grabbed the wrong morsel). woman released after treatment. SNAKE BITES MIRAMAR MAN (bit his left index finger when he picked up the cottonmouth off a Miramar street (double "for chrissakes"). girl friend tried to suck out the venom...treated and released with numb mouth (!!). Victim quickly developed allergy because he'd been given antivenin with his last snake bite two years ago (!!!!!) MORE BAD WEATHER MAY FOLLOW TWISTER (1 1/2" of rain...hail....) TRAFFIC TIE-UPS OF THE WEEK (I've read we're something awful like 3rd in the country for lousy traffic) LOTTO ROLLS OVER TO $7 million and you think this is easy living????? sandy kramer in Miami who is going to buy a Lotto ticket this week *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:43:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22349 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22344 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02428 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11849 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20108 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10298 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06455 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.86.c4ddc83 (3968); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86.c4ddc83.287b76e3_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:06:43 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) To: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net good monday chuckle. sandy kramer whose challenge yesterday was to take out a disabled paddler (whom I had never met!). His previous experience was paddling in a double....I was convinced that he'd be able to paddle my Old Town Canoe Dimension Solo (with external sponsons it has a 30" beam) by hiimself. His dream came true. Still, it was a pretty exhausting day as it took me 2 1/2 hours to go from my house to his place to the put-in (as someone remarked..."Our leader arrived halfway through the paddle) and then do the reverse afterward...1/2 tank of gas! Still, these are rewarding moments when we are able to share our love of paddling with others.....and I was able to count my blessings for being able bodied. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:43:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22371 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22366 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02735 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11875 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20119 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12851 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09984 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id w.d0.183728aa (3968); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d0.183728aa.287b7806_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:11:34 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying FKs To: ratten_at_uow.edu.au, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-08 21:08:27 EDT, ratten_at_uow.edu.au writes: << Overall, it is getting tougher to fly with a kayak, unless you are willing to pay. If you are taking a kayak on a trip, you are obviously carrying on a lot of ancilliary gear. >> She may not be fancy...but my little Puffin folding kayak is a 19-pounder! Even with ancillary gear, I doubt whether the duffel exceeded 45...with ancillary I also had inflatable racks! Handiracks....paid $60 in Target but haven't seen them since....have D-rings on top for strapping the boat and the main straps go through the windows. sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:44:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22389 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22384 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02886 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11905 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20130 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15952 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16985 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id r.f6.c6fff45 (3968); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <f6.c6fff45.287b7a6a_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:21:46 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage To: lew_sa_at_yahoo.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net CC: bob_at_sinkthestink.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-09 11:46:41 EDT, lew_sa_at_yahoo.com writes: << I fully accept responsibility for not checking the baggage weight limits of the flight and for not weighing the boat beforehand. I make sure I do that before I bring the kayak with me on a trip now. >> there was an article in the local (Miami) paper recently how traveling South Americans go to the local Publix (supermarket) and place their luggage on the free scales. Publix is not too thrilled about this because the scales may be broken...still, until your local store catches on....here's one option sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:47:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22788 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22782 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03536 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12030 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20145 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15965 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf10bis.bellsouth.net (mail010.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.30]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17217 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.124]) by imf10bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010709212257.NMNQ18150.imf10bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:22:57 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Lew Crenshaw'" <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:33:55 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002e01c108be$db148c90$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20010709191315.20923.qmail_at_web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > the weight of the boat when outfitted > with the accessories (seat, coaming, rudder, etc. . .) > comes to 57 lbs. Well I wouldn't consider a seat or coaming an accessory. The only accessory is the rudder, and if I remember right, the Khats is supposed to weigh in at 45lbs per their web site. I'd say that based on these numbers, Lew certainly has a valid complaint, not necessarily regarding the airline issue, but if I buy a $4K 45lb boat, I expect it to weigh reasonably close to the advertised weight. 57 lbs is out of the range of what I would expect and quite frankly, I would have returned the boat. Ralph: What is the real story? cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 14:57:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25918 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25913 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf08bis.bellsouth.net (mail008.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.28]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10380 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.124]) by imf08bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010709215752.MRQY10148.imf08bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:57:52 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] 8-year-old boy mauled by shark in Florida Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:08:50 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <003101c108c3$bc49e990$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <65.16e92735.287b7e33_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net What twister? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 15:47:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11477 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11472 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (fepout3.telus.net [199.185.220.238]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14810 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kit6380886a ([216.232.109.86]) by priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20010709224727.OTNI9123.priv-edtnes11-hme0.telusplanet.net_at_kit6380886 a> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:47:27 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010709154815.00926290_at_mail.udgroup.com> X-Sender: robm_at_mail.udgroup.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:48:15 -0700 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Greenland Paddle Design Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I built a new Greenland stick a week or two back, and tried it out on an easy 5 day trip from Porcher Island (Welcome Harbour, for those familiar with these waters) back to Prince Rupert. The paddle was a modification of the"traditional" design, being about 6 inches longer and 1/2" wider than my first one, built according to the well-known formulae. It worked as I had hoped, lots of drive, a slower velocity in the water, even a LOWER cadence compared to those using Euro paddles. The drawback was, it was WET WET WET! The extra blade area picks up lots of water, and the slower cadence and speed through the water gives it time to run down the shaft onto the spraydeck. I had the numbest thumbs ever, from the water running over them. I was using my old paddle in March, in a river full of ice cubes, with warmer hands, and less water on the skirt. A standard rubber drip ring can be forced over the blade, though, so I will try that. But they look really ugly on the oiled cedar.... The bottom line is, the Inuit who developed these blades got it pretty close to right. Getting wet was not a possibility I had foreseen when I made these design changes. The other folks on the trip were quite surprised at how well it worked. The trip leader had great visions of it snapping, and everyone marvelled at how powerful it is. It doesn't look like it should work, but it does. Theory may claim that Euro designs should be better, but as we have already noticed from discussions on this list, maybe we don't know enough theory yet. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 16:14:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20418 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20413 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04596 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25204 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20245 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14569 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvm.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21821 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) id <01K5RHWFYXTC9N83U5_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:58:26 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz ([132.181.173.162]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) with ESMTP id <01K5RHWFPN0S9PM4EG_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:58:26 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from sandy.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (sandy [132.181.173.22]) by mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07177 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:58:25 +1200 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:58:24 +1200 From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis In-reply-to: <3B497A4A.6B87AA50_at_pacifier.com> X-Sender: ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Message-id: <4.3.2.7.1.20010710105220.00c61710_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 02:32 am 9/07/01 -0700, you wrote: >Recently, I have been experimenting paddling my high-volume single kayak >with rudder deployed and without. And, I think I may have discovered >something: when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling >and loss of feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I >do not deploy the rudder. Sliding rudder pedals? If so you would have lost any bracing from the rudder up locking the pedals. If they are sliding type answer is to replace them with a "gas pedal" style. The right wrist because that's the one that would be prone to problems. I use unfeathered and a rudder so I don't believe either are a factor, ithat's why I believe it's the type of rudder system causing the problem. Alex Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 18:52:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09318 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09312 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:51:33 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16719 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id u.67.168c036d (15814); Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web50.aolmail.aol.com (web50.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.11]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v78_r3.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:50:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:50:49 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Greenland Paddle Design To: <robm_at_udl.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <67.168c036d.287bb979_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rob says, "A standard rubber drip ring can be forced over the blade, though, so I will try that. But they look really ugly on the oiled cedar...." Yup, they would. Try tying a few turns of sinew or rawhide or string about where you'd put the rubber rings, and let the bitter ends string out a few inches. Should take care of a lot of your problem. "The bottom line is, the Inuit who developed these blades got it pretty close to right." Evolution is wonderful, ain't it? No sharp sticks in the eyes of fundamentalism (in general), but it's kinda interesting how stuff works out. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 19:10:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13217 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13150 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.fidalgo.net ([63.169.120.10]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26420 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.fidalgo.net (root_at_mail.fidalgo.net [63.169.120.3]) by ns2.fidalgo.net (8.11.2/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f6A28oR37720 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kayakfit (pm3-1-dyn15.skagit.fidalgo.net [63.169.122.30]) by mail.fidalgo.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10425 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c108e5$61be9ee0$1e7aa93f_at_kayakfit> From: "Kathea and Ken" <kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107092144.OAA22512_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] (Paddlewise) Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:00:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I think that the bottom line with overuse injuries is that we need to become hypersensitive to stress, and very conservative about subjecting our aging, overworked bodies to too much of it. I wish I had known when I was younger that overuse injuries existed, and how serious they are. If I had known, I might not have to deal with them now. Ken Rasmussen kayakfit_at_fidalgo.net www.kayakfit.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 19:42:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24662 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24657 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf04bis.bellsouth.net (mail104.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.44]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18690 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.124]) by imf04bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010710024300.YIXS755.imf04bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:43:00 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Gabriel L Romeu'" <romeug_at_erols.com> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Skegs Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:53:57 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <003201c108eb$9069bcb0$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B4A4D4D.48FD92C8_at_erols.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One point I need to make is that I only have the experience of using the Nordkapp skegs. They may function completely differently in other boats. The skeg in the newer Nordkapp seems especially fine tuned. I've got a new job and will probably not make it up your way on business though hopefully, there is a possibility of more paddle trips! Cya Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 20:17:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04419 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04414 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail_at_ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09041 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alice ([24.21.32.89]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010710031715.KPUH15332.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com_at_alice>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:15 -0700 From: "Alice J. Bennett" <ajbjd_at_msn.com> To: "Rob MacDonald" <robm_at_udl.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Greenland Paddle Design Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:18:12 -0700 Message-ID: <NEBBIHDPALILLGBDAAFMMEJKCGAA.ajbjd_at_msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010709154815.00926290_at_mail.udgroup.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Try wrapping any kind of string or thin twine around the area where the blade narrows. It worked for me & isn't particularly noticeable. Alice -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Rob MacDonald Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 3:48 PM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Greenland Paddle Design *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 20:36:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10327 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10322 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21011 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29239 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20346 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00229 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.140]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29198 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [65.4.245.99] by femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010710030053.FOOZ11197.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_[65.4.245.99]> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:00:53 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:00:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage From: Robert Livingston & Pam Martin <bearboat2_at_home.com> To: Paddlewise Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B76FBDF5.261A%bearboat2_at_home.com> In-Reply-To: <001001c1087d$34e48410$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I can only second the reports of capricious baggage handlers. I once flew to Portugal and back with a take apart kayak (Three pieces) I was traveling with two friends who had identical boats, I was charged an extra about $200 on the flight back only. My friends going to a different agent 10 minutes earlier paid nothing. None of us paid going on the first leg of the trip. It could have cost us $1200 for the whole thing or $0. I guess I should be happy it was only $200 But it was hard to see my friends get it for free :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 20:37:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10507 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10501 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21234 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29245 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20358 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00906 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: volinjo_at_juno.com Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.73]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yTmoM4onTJyg4drQy4WmdR36ELBCmGhWfyZ55VLQVFhBt0ijgZjjIA=="> Received: (from volinjo_at_juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F9X3KC8Z; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 23:04:03 EDT To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Cc: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:00:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dangerous Trip (Humor) Message-ID: <20010709.230432.-4160637.2.volinjo_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net THey Sandy - that's terrific. After your last post, with all of the bad news from the daily paper, it was a picker-upper. Joan On Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:06:43 EDT Gypsykayak_at_aol.com writes: > good monday chuckle. > > sandy kramer whose challenge yesterday was to take out a disabled > paddler > (whom I had never met!). > > His previous experience was paddling in a double....I was convinced > that he'd > be able to paddle my Old Town Canoe Dimension Solo (with external > sponsons it > has a 30" beam) by hiimself. His dream came true. > > Still, it was a pretty exhausting day as it took me 2 1/2 hours to > go from my > house to his place to the put-in (as someone remarked..."Our leader > arrived > halfway through the paddle) and then do the reverse afterward...1/2 > tank of > gas! > > Still, these are rewarding moments when we are able to share our > love of > paddling with others.....and I was able to count my blessings for > being able > bodied. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 20:38:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10526 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10521 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21282 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29258 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20368 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04436 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com (imo-m07.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.162]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09119 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.2f.17985184 (17083) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f.17985184.287bcdf3_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:18:11 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Greenland Paddle Design To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/9/01 6:53:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robm_at_udl.com writes: > ... The other folks on the trip were quite surprised at how well it worked. > The trip leader had great visions of it snapping, and everyone marvelled at > how powerful it is. It doesn't look like it should work, but it does. > Theory may claim that Euro designs should be better, but as we have already > noticed from discussions on this list, maybe we don't know enough theory > yet. Ah, for the words of a paddler who has actually tried it :-). Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 20:39:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10705 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10699 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au ([203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21527 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex1.amsa.gov.au (cbrex1.amsa.gov.au.253.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.253.17] (may be forged)) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29940; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:35:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex1.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:38:37 +1000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:38:37 +1000 Message-ID: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D57C_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Thread-Index: AcEIXDBNz3vZ/NWpTPSd4YV0oZSPnQAk10OQ From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2001 03:38:37.0640 (UTC) FILETIME=[CDD34480:01C108F1] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id UAA10700 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have noticed the opposite effect. I got a bad case of Tendonitis last year on the first day of a 5 week trip which was a bit annoying. I tend to think if I had a rudder on I wouldn't have got it. At the time I had been sea kayaking for about 6 years and always on boats with out a rudder. I had switched over to a non feathered blade about 2 years prior to the trip. On this particular day I had: - A much heavier boat (5 week trip plus lots of camera gear) then I had ever paddled - A strong following sea (25 Knots and 1.5Metre swell) - I was doing a lot of support strokes including lots of stern rudders - I had a sail up which I had made substantially bigger about a week before the trip (probably not a good idea). - The sail without a rudder meant lots of correcting. 4 days into the trip I put a rudder on the boat and found the tendonitis slowly went away. Using the rudder instead of support strokes enabled me to lessen the strain on my arms and I found it more comfortable. I took the rudder off after the trip and havn't used it since for weekend trips but if I was planing a long trip again I would put it back on. The only other time I have had a problem is in summer when I spend lots of time practicing rolling and sculling. This causes the tendoniitis to appear but I'm a little more careful now and don't try and do all my rolling practice in one day A question?? I went to two different doctors with the problem and one said strap the arm/wrist up tightly and the other said don't strap it at all. Does anyone know the correct thing for this injury during a trip. David Canberra, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Dave Kruger [mailto:dkruger_at_pacifier.com] Recently, I have been experimenting paddling my high-volume single kayak with rudder deployed and without. And, I think I may have discovered something: when I paddle with the rudder down, I seem to develop tingling and loss of feeling in my right wrist very much more rapidly than when I do not deploy the rudder. ............>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 9 23:47:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08903 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08897 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18877 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23741 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20436 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25428 Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19690 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.244.180.156.Dial1.NewYork2.Level3.net [209.244.180.156]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00445; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c108f8$310976e0$9cb4f4d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <002e01c108be$db148c90$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:24:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > > the weight of the boat when outfitted > > with the accessories (seat, coaming, rudder, etc. . .) > > comes to 57 lbs. > > Well I wouldn't consider a seat or coaming an accessory. The only > accessory is the rudder, and if I remember right, the Khats is supposed > to weigh in at 45lbs per their web site. I'd say that based on these > numbers, Lew certainly has a valid complaint, not necessarily regarding > the airline issue, but if I buy a $4K 45lb boat, I expect it to weigh > reasonably close to the advertised weight. 57 lbs is out of the range of > what I would expect and quite frankly, I would have returned the boat. > > Ralph: What is the real story? Bob, you put me on the spot. I really don't know. As you pointed out, and I have found to be true, the K-Light weighed actually a bit less than its advertised 34.5 pounds. I don't recall weighing the Khatsalano but it certainly seemed like in the 45-50 range judging by how it carried on my shoulder the last time I picked one up. But I never used the rudder, which adds about 3 pounds or so. Sprayskirt, seasock are not normally in the weight equation nor is the paddle. I too heard the complaint about the weight back channel from Lew. I am puzzled. I do know that at times, when it used hypalon, that Feathercraft got caught in short supply of the stuff and got a heavier version. But customers were made aware of that with the option to trade back the boats when the regular weight hypalon came in. But that was years ago and Lew said the skin weighed around 20 pounds which would be reasonable given that the K-Light skin weighed in the 14 pound range. Again, I don't know the answer. Moreover, Feathercraft tends to be very concerned about customer relations and is not a company likely to be cavalier with a customer the way Lew describes. Sometimes people don't communicate well, and this may be one such case. I am not saying that Lew is a pain-in-the-ass but I do know of genuine such pains that Feathercraft dealt with quite generously when the customer was clearly wrong. So, Lew, a reasonable person so far as I know from contacts with him in the past, would likely have been treated fine. But the key is that the weight of the basic boat should be what is advertised within say 10 per cent. If it is not and it is an issue for the customer, the company would, I imagine, take it back. No company, certainly not Feathercraft, wants people going around saying things about it that would give it a poor customer image. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 03:31:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19320 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19288 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08528 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([210.50.64.48]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:29:12 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:27:57 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c1092a$fcf1dc70$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2001 10:29:13.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[29EF5900:01C1092B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger wrote: - >I think what happens is that when using the rudder, I get into a more >repetitive paddling motion which "locks" the wrist into the same configuration, >so that the same tendons are stressed with each stroke. OTOH, with no rudder >down, I have to vary my stroke (and paddle angle) with almost every swing of my >arms to maintain my course. Thus, no two successive strokes stress exactly the >same tendons the same way. G'Day, Maybe this is a case of "If it feels good do it" everyone being different - but Dave's idea that variation in muscle movement reduces stress sounds credible. Have applied the same idea for years with jogging by choosing rough ground and have never suffered a running injury (though care is needed not to turn an ankle). Also the idea is a major justification for carrying out a variety of exercise to keep opposing muscles and tendons in balance. Regarding variation in paddle strokes and angle without a rudder. I don't have a rudder and was paddling with a very experienced kayaker Larry Gray when I mentioned that in rough sea it seemed more efficient to vary cadence slightly to take advantage of different waves/conditions. He was of the same opinion and its more interesting than just grinding away at the same stroke all the time. But by far the greatest reduction in stress came by padding the cockpit out so that knee lift and hip movement controlled the boat more effectively - it has reduced the number of sweep strokes dramatically and my stiff elbow has just about vanished. All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 04:02:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA28605 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28600 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28710 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-64.152.163.66.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.152.163.66]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26939 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002e01c10930$258c0ca0$42a39840_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1, Dowd on Judgment Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:50:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The July/Aug issue of Paddler Magazine has two thought provoking small pieces. One, is a short article by John Dowd regarding Teaching Judgment. The other is an interview with Wayne Horodowich in which the interview, among other things, asks him about regional differences in sea kayakers (I will go into Wayne's thoughts in a separate email to the list). In his piece, Dowd talks about how relatively easy it is to get into sea kayaking and learning the mechanics but how hard it is to teach judgment. He gives some examples and also talks about a program he had developed. He ends the piece with "Of course the program does not lend itself well to certification...but then, for someo of us, that is another of its virtues." Judgment is really something hard to teach. I may have mentioned this before but earlier this year I was talking with the top BCU coach in the US and the subject came around to a local paddler who we both have now more than a dozen years. He said "You know, X is a terrific paddler but he totally lacks judgment" and, in the context of our conversation, had the implication that he would likely get himself, and worse yet others in trouble. Dowd's discussion is in the context of wilderness paddling, i.e. in isolated areas with sudden weather changes and difficult, changeable sea conditions. People make judgment mistakes (even he) and pay the consequences. But, I also see it in my immediate urban setting. I can't tell you how often I run into people who have just bought a boat and perhaps have a bit of training under their belt but are chafing to paddle out in the harbor where judgment is every bit as important as it in the wild, perhaps even more so. Anyway, the issue of judgment vs. mechanical skills is certainly something we should always think about anytime we are about to go off and paddle. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 04:06:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA28831 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28820 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29942 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-64.152.163.66.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.152.163.66]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA11986 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004001c10930$aac98be0$42a39840_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1, Dowd on Judgment Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:07:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The July/Aug issue of Paddler Magazine has two thought provoking small pieces. One, is a short article by John Dowd regarding Teaching Judgment. The other is an interview with Wayne Horodowich in which the interview, among other things, asks him about regional differences in sea kayakers (I will go into Wayne's thoughts in a separate email to the list). In his piece, John talks about how relatively easy it is to get into sea kayaking and learning the mechanics but how hard it is to teach judgment. He gives some examples and also talks about a program he had developed. He ends the piece with "Of course the program does not lend itself well to certification...but then, for someo of us, that is another of its virtues." Judgment is really something hard to teach. I may have mentioned this before but earlier this year I was talking with the top BCU coach in the US and the subject came around to a local paddler who we both have now more than a dozen years. He said "You know, X is a terrific paddler but he totally lacks judgment" and, in the context of our conversation, had the implication that he would likely get himself, and worse yet others in trouble. John's discussion is in the context of wilderness paddling, i.e. in isolated areas with sudden weather changes and difficult, changeable sea conditions. People make judgment mistakes (even he) and pay the consequences. But, I also see it in my immediate urban setting. I can't tell you how often I run into people who have just bought a boat and perhaps have a bit of training under their belt but are chafing to paddle out in the harbor where judgment is every bit as important as it in the wild, perhaps even more so. Anyway, the issue of judgment vs. mechanical skills is certainly something we should always think about anytime we are about to go off and paddle. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:11:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12421 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12390 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02160 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28913 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20614 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18168 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA07529 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200107100716.AAA07529_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 26897 invoked by uid 0); 10 Jul 2001 07:16:09 -0000 Received: from brln-d9320c74.pool.mediaways.net (HELO gmx.de) (217.50.12.116) by mail.gmx.net (mail02) with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 07:16:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:44:38 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id AAA18169 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > SAS (who has the cheap tickets) only allows one piece of luggage at 48lbs. > Any ideas > of how to get my stuff cheaply from here (Amsterdam) to there (Norway)? If you are not the adventurous type, try and send your equipment ahead. It is not *that* expensive in Europe, compared to the price of excess baggage. You could send your stuff as "post restant" which I did before from Germany to Scandinavia (in 1995) or you could send it to a lodge / youth hostel / Bed & Breakfast in the area you want to start paddling in. I did the latter a year ago in Great Britain with camping equipment, food etc. when I went on a winterish solo trip in Scotland. My hosts in the Bed & Breakfest did not mind the parcel (which was a large, old, beaten and very suspect canvas bag). If you are the adventurous type, try the following things: - ask around if neighbours, friends etc. will travel to Norway by car and if they are willing to take some of your stuff into Norway. They could send it as a parcel from inside Norway to your destination. - check if SAS has special sport luggage fares for things like surf boards, bicycles, golf bags etc. Then check your boat in as a golf bag (the look and size of the Khat bag might help). - go to the check in early. People there are in less hurry and will likely look over your baggage mountains. When I flew from London to Germany, the lady at the British Airways counter didn't even attempt to weigh my kayak and bags but sent me to the excess baggage counter (where they do not weigh the baggage). On the other hand, at a flight to Turkey, we paid some huge amount of money because the flight was overbooked (important islamic holiday was ahead) and we did not inform the air line that we had a small boat with us. On the flight back, nobody even attempted to weight our bags ... I flew with SAS only once on a Scandinavian flight and they seemed to be extremely helpful and did not mind my large and heavy backpack at all (I came back from 5 weeks of hiking in Northern Scandinavia - they even let me sleep overnight in the otherwise locked airport building in Kiruna in order to catch the morning flight!). The staff in Amsterdam might be different (they won't be Scandinavians ...:-)). Cheers, Marian PS: Check the Norwegian rules of importing food (especially in regard of foot-and-mouth-disease) Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:21:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16458 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16419 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09625 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip188.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.188]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6AFKhi15356; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4B1D2A.A68580ED_at_pacifier.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:20:10 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1, Dowd on Judgment References: <002e01c10930$258c0ca0$42a39840_at_rdiaz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ralph diaz wrote: > > The July/Aug issue of Paddler Magazine has two thought provoking small > pieces. One, is a short article by John Dowd regarding Teaching Judgment. [snip] > In his piece, Dowd talks about how relatively easy it is to get into sea > kayaking and learning the mechanics but how hard it is to teach judgment. > He gives some examples and also talks about a program he had developed. He > ends the piece with "Of course the program does not lend itself well to > certification...but then, for some of us, that is another of its virtues." > > Judgment is really something hard to teach. [snip] I wonder if it can be taught, inasmuch as "judging" involves some higher-order cognitive functions that may be there for some folks and not for others. I paddle with a guy who is not reckless, per se, but his capacity for predicting the consequences of his choices is limited. If one can not foresee the likely consequence of a choice he/she is making, then how can that person "judge" whether the choice is good or not? Before anybody jumps on the PC bandwagon, no, this does not mean I think the guy is stupid. He is not. But, just as some of us are not capable of musical endeavours, this guy may be incapable of "good" judgement. To return to Ralph's statement, I suspect judgement can not be taught, but one's ability to judge can be encouraged. In other words, we can _teach_ someone a paddle stroke, because the process is imitative: do the motion just as I do it. But, we can not _teach_ judgement because each situation is slightly different (or, a lot different!) from the one the person encountered before, and the person can not use any pre-learned sequence of decisions or actions. He/she has to make up a new set of actions, on the fly, so to speak. I think it is good Dowd has a developed process to encourage the development of good judgement. He is certainly qualified, in my judgement [snicker], to convey the elements of good judgment in sea kayaking. I also think we should not expect graduates of John's process (or anybody else's) to have good judgement. The incident last year (detailed in SK mag) of two paddlers who got "lost" on the Columbia River within 2 miles of their put-in and subsequently abandoned their craft, in exchange for a mile-and-a-half thrash across a mixture of swamp, downed trees, and mud, is a good case in point: one of the paddlers had 14 years of experience, and was a graduate of one of the most highly-regarded paddling schools in the Northwest. What he did not have, was the judgement to distinguish a small island (300 metres long), in his sights, from a massive island (3000 metres long and 1500 metres wide) at his 9 o'clock position. I challenge John Dowd's ability to "teach" that paddler good judgement. YMMV. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:38:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20533 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20528 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20382 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02696 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20647 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28814 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29938 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-64.152.163.66.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.152.163.66]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA22131 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01c10930$aa2339c0$42a39840_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 2, Horodowich on Regional Differences Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:05:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net As I mentioned in discussing the Dowd piece in the most recent Paddler Magazine (July/Aug 2001), there was an interview with Wayne Horodowich who as an ACA instructor-trainer and symposium speaker regular gets around the US quite a lot. The interviewer asked him at several points about regional differences among sea kayakers. The object of the interview was not to discuss such differences but rather is a profile piece on Wayne. So, don't expect a well organized treatise on the subject; Wayne just touches here and there are some quick observations. But there certainly are distinct markings you can see on paddlers depending on where they are from. Wayne mentions gear and training differences and says that if he often can spot where a paddler is from by his style based on knowing instructors from an area. I have not traveled to all sections of the country as has Wayne (I am not certain he has been here to the NYC area and its paddling scene) but, even in my more limited travel, I certainly have noticed enormous differences between say SF Bay area sea kayakers and those from the Northwest. Also between NYC and the Washington DC area, which are less than 4 hours apart by road. Wayne attributes the differences in part to the paddling water environment and in the instruction type available. Anyway, again, some provoking thoughts as in the Dowd piece. ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:41:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22283 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22251 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22655 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03943 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20674 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28765 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f37.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29221 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:41:38 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.129 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:41:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.129] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:41:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F37AvLqyvGpG1g86uud00007757_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2001 12:41:38.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9BA2BD0:01C1093D] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net David says I went to two different doctors with the problem and one said strap the arm/wrist up tightly and the other said don't strap it at all. Does anyone know the correct thing for this injury during a trip. David - I had wrist tendon problems thirty years ago. I had strained my wrist somehow and rotating the blade was enough to aggravate it. I got so bad that I could hear the tendon creak as it moved. It kept me out of trying for the Olympics, but that's another story. Anyway, I got the same conflicting advice from different sources. Over the few years that the problem existed [praise Allah, it has never come back since 1973] I found that wrapping before it got bad helped but leaving it unwrapped or lightly wrapped when swollen was best. My guess is that anything that increased the friction of the tendon in its sheath once there was swelling would only make things worse. Anti-inflammatory drugs and ice or cold water on the tendon would be a good start as soon as the pain starts. I always thought that one advantage of a wrist wrap [I can't even type that phrase without stuttering] was keeping the wrist cooler through evaporation. Careful stretching is good, especially after paddling, but that's a different sermon. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:43:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23095 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23090 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24978 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03970 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20693 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29333 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web5102.mail.yahoo.com (web5102.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.106.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02187 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010710124918.6267.qmail_at_web5102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.58.92.10] by web5102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:49:18 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:49:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Lew Crenshaw <lew_sa_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying with Excessive Baggage--the end approaches (whew) To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <001501c108f8$310976e0$9cb4f4d1_at_rdiaz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thought I'd close this portion of the thread with one last comment on my part. My original post may have been perceived as snippy to a few (or a lot) of P'wisers, but it was not my intention to slight Feathercraft in anyway. Moreover, I thought it would be useful to explain my first experience of travelling with a kayak and to make those who plan to travel with their folder aware that you can't rely on the quoted weights (which I did for that trip). I've dealt with Feathercraft on several other occassions and they've always provided help in a thoughtful, courteous and timely manner. I never hounded them on the weight issue as well--one phone call , one letter, end of story. I may be disappointed with the Khats-S overall weight, but it's a joy to paddle. When compared to my Greenland skin on frame (30 lbs total), I don't feel like I get pushed around as much in rougher water. I don't know whether its due to the design or the weight (prob a mix of the two), but the boats are like night and day (obviously). Plus, it's given me a reason to make my own folder. Made it as far as cutting the plywood last winter. Maybe this winter I'll glue something to the frame and call that progress. Lew > Bob, you put me on the spot. I really don't know. > As you pointed out, and > I have found to be true, the K-Light weighed > actually a bit less than its > advertised 34.5 pounds. I don't recall weighing the > Khatsalano but it > certainly seemed like in the 45-50 range judging by > how it carried on my > shoulder the last time I picked one up. But I never > used the rudder, which > adds about 3 pounds or so. Sprayskirt, seasock are > not normally in the > weight equation nor is the paddle. I too heard the > complaint about the > weight back channel from Lew. I am puzzled. I do > know that at times, when > it used hypalon, that Feathercraft got caught in > short supply of the stuff > and got a heavier version. But customers were made > aware of that with the > option to trade back the boats when the regular > weight hypalon came in. But > that was years ago and Lew said the skin weighed > around 20 pounds which > would be reasonable given that the K-Light skin > weighed in the 14 pound > range. > > Again, I don't know the answer. Moreover, > Feathercraft tends to be very > concerned about customer relations and is not a > company likely to be > cavalier with a customer the way Lew describes. > Sometimes people don't > communicate well, and this may be one such case. I > am not saying that Lew > is a pain-in-the-ass but I do know of genuine such > pains that Feathercraft > dealt with quite generously when the customer was > clearly wrong. So, Lew, a > reasonable person so far as I know from contacts > with him in the past, would > likely have been treated fine. But the key is that > the weight of the basic > boat should be what is advertised within say 10 per > cent. If it is not and > it is an issue for the customer, the company would, > I imagine, take it back. > > No company, certainly not Feathercraft, wants people > going around saying > things about it that would give it a poor customer > image. > > ralph diaz-- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or > suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must > assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings > copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 08:47:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23572 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23506 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26864 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04123 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA20735 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13797 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03637 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 33787 invoked by uid 3027); 10 Jul 2001 15:11:32 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 15:11:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:11:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying FKs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010709105820.00709824_at_pop.uow.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107101108090.31522-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net When I flew to Hong Kong last December I checked with United about carrying a hard shell sea kayak (Current Designs). It would have been around $150.00 I believe.... Must depend on the airlines...another criteria than frequent flyer miles... Andree Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence - http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 09:17:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02819 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02814 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16599 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51086 invoked by uid 3027); 10 Jul 2001 16:17:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 16:17:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1, Dowd on Judgment In-Reply-To: <3B4B1D2A.A68580ED_at_pacifier.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107101211480.35455-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One way we try to show judgement is by stepping through a scenario such as the famous story about the little guided trip off of Orcas Island in Washington. It was written up by George Gronseth in such a way that you can have a class read up to a certain point, discuss, read on, discuss....and maybe question - if you were the guide - do you think it was a good idea to go out when the weather radio predicted small craft warnings...was it a good idea to have your radio in your back hatch...was it a good idea to jump out of your kayak to get your marine radio..... This and other stories are in Deep Trouble... Andree Andree Hurley http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 09:53:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14667 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14661 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10240 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13892 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20759 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:00:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107101700.KAA20759_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Teaching good judgement (Was: 2 thought ...) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > I wonder if it can be taught, inasmuch as "judging" involves some higher-order > cognitive functions that may be there for some folks and not for others. I > paddle with a guy who is not reckless, per se, but his capacity for predicting > the consequences of his choices is limited. If one can not foresee the likely > consequence of a choice he/she is making, then how can that person "judge" > whether the choice is good or not? > > Before anybody jumps on the PC bandwagon, no, this does not mean I think the > guy is stupid. He is not. But, just as some of us are not capable of musical > endeavours, this guy may be incapable of "good" judgement. You know, this makes sense to me. I've been with paddlers who have acted in ways that I thought were just being belligerant or reckless and who should have "known better" (or so I thought) Some paddlers seem to be always getting themselves into a "fix"... regardless of how much experience/training they have. I'll bet that the lack of good judgement demonstrated in paddling will show up in other areas as well. (I don't want to confuse "incapable of good judgement" with those paddlers that are *aware* of the risks and possible consequences, accept those risks and are willing to proceed for whatever personal reason.) I also realize that perceptions are often based on individual risk-tolerance levels. Some of it just may be "taking chances" (some paddlers will take more risks when paddling in a group than when solo so they are obviously aware of the risks). On the other hand, I believe there is a real issue with some people not being able to predict the consequences of their actions. Probably a lot of school teachers could tell us about that 8-} Good points, Dave. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 09:53:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14684 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14679 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10815 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13907 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20766 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08492 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26939 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04200; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:09:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200107101609.MAA04200_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:28:22 -0400 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, ratten_at_uow.edu.au, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flying FKs In-Reply-To: <d0.183728aa.287b7806_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 05:11 PM 7/9/01 -0400, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > I also had inflatable racks! Handiracks....paid $60 in Target but >haven't seen them since....have D-rings on top for strapping the boat and the >main straps go through the windows. I saw a couple sets of these in a local kayak shop last weekend (New England Small Craft, in Rowley Massachusetts) so they still exist. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 10:02:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17607 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17601 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16398 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id KAA23755; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010710124935.01c9e4b8_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:01:25 -0400 To: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107101211480.35455-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> References: <3B4B1D2A.A68580ED_at_pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 12:17 PM 7/10/2001 -0400, Andree Hurley wrote: >... This and other stories are in Deep Trouble... > >Andree If anyone on this board has not read Sea Kayaker: Deep Trouble, they should. This is a must read for anyone who paddles in water deeper than wading depth. I learned a heck of a lot from this book and it prompted me to take half a dozen actions in making my boat and gear safer. For example, I now carry a VHF/Weather radio in a drybag in the cockpit; I put homemade flotation in the hatch areas of my kayak despite having bulkheads; I carry a knife in my fanny pack and another in my PFD; my flares are now in my PFD pocket with more in the boat; I have a deck compass plus a compass in my fanny pack. The list goes on. -jerry. (Now on the coast where the sun rises over the water.) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 10:31:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26573 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26537 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10605.mail.yahoo.com (web10605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.169]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05775 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010710173101.55962.qmail_at_web10605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.224.46] by web10605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:01 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kruger on judgement To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger wrote: >To return to Ralph's statement, I suspect judgement can not be taught, >but one's ability to judge can be encouraged. An appropriate quote I heard once went something like: Good Judgement is the result of experience. Experience is usually the result of Bad Judgement. Shawn Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 11:12:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09215 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09210 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03502 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25705 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20853 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00531 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17213 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (kwhilden_at_localhost) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6AHlmV05488 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:47:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:47:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Whilden <kwhilden_at_yourplanetearth.org> X-X-Sender: <kwhilden_at_www.doutlets.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1, Dowd on Judgment Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0107101346560.4968-100000_at_www.doutlets.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Good topic Ralph! Since I teach a lot of whitewater kayaking, I am always asked if it is extremely dangerous. My answer is no, provided that your level of judgement exceeds you level of physical skill. The best safety device in any kind of kayaking is your brain, properly functioning. I then usually astound people by declaring that whitewater kayaking is a good bit safer of an endeavor than sea kayaking. I answer their incredulous stare by explaining that the risks in whitewater are quite obvious and people who take up the sport spend a lot of mental effort learning how to deal with those risks at the start of their career. In sea kayaking, the risks are often totally non-apparent to the inexperienced, and it is very easy to get in "over your head". Just about any fool can get in a sea kayak and in five minutes paddle further away from shore than they can swim. I could go on at length about this subject, but I'll spare you... ;) But can judgment be taught? Absolutely. Good judgment is a properly functioning Cranial Processing Unit (CPU) comparing the existing situation to a database of prior situations, and then deciding on a "good" course of action. Thus, those who lack a sufficient database but have decent CPU can be taught good judgment simply by enlarging their database. This can be done through direct experience and/or by learning of situations second hand (e.g. book, training, or story). The safety reports in Sea Kayaker and the book Deep Trouble are exemplary in this aspect. Those with malfunctioning CPU's will have a little more difficulty, but their ability to process data can be improved with some effort. A brain is not a static chunk of transistors, but rather a dynamicly changing neural network that can be improved... even old dogs can learn new tricks IMO. Though some may have to beat their heads into the wall repeatedly before that proverbial light clicks on inside. Having not yet seen the article, I will reserve judgment *ahem*. But I do think it is possible to begin teaching good kayaking sense to anyone. However the effectiveness of any single method will be highly variable, with many completely failing to learn anything. I can't wait to hear the opinion of some other prominent list members on this subject ;) Cheers, kevin On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dave Kruger wrote: > ralph diaz wrote: > > > > The July/Aug issue of Paddler Magazine has two thought provoking small > > pieces. One, is a short article by John Dowd regarding Teaching Judgment. > [snip] > > > Judgment is really something hard to teach. [snip] > > I wonder if it can be taught, inasmuch as "judging" involves some higher-order > cognitive functions that may be there for some folks and not for others. I > **snip** > To return to Ralph's statement, I suspect judgement can not be taught, but > one's ability to judge can be encouraged. > **snip** > The incident last year (detailed in SK mag) of two paddlers who got "lost" on > the Columbia River within 2 miles of their put-in and subsequently abandoned > their craft, in exchange for a mile-and-a-half thrash across a mixture of > swamp, downed trees, and mud, is a good case in point: one of the paddlers had > 14 years of experience, and was a graduate of one of the most highly-regarded > paddling schools in the Northwest. What he did not have, was the judgement to > distinguish a small island (300 metres long), in his sights, from a massive > island (3000 metres long and 1500 metres wide) at his 9 o'clock position. > > I challenge John Dowd's ability to "teach" that paddler good judgement. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 13:55:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28790 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28785 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22079 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id NAA28912 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010710095028.01c98008_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:51:02 -0400 To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip report: SACO RIVER, MAINE In-Reply-To: <002e01c108be$db148c90$e8763dd0_at_bdenton> References: <20010709191315.20923.qmail_at_web5105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net A New Hampshire AMC trip. Rod Dore of NHAMC organized a canoe trip in southwest Maine from July 5 to 8. 11 paddlers camped at the Swan's Falls AMC camp near Fryeburg, ME. One more -- trailblazing author Roioli Schweiker -- joined us Friday morning to fill out our fleet with 9 adults, 1 teen boy, and 2 girls of 7 and 12, in 6 canoes. After some complex Friday morning logistics -- setting one car for an early takeout point, two cars at the final takeout -- the rest of us set off for our starting point, Fryeburg Harbor. Finding a suitable put-in spot was more difficult than we thought, the first likely spot having an 8-foot drop to the water, and a local recommendation of parking behind a church and cemetery was nearly as difficult. We found an alternate put-in near a tiny dam where the Old Course Saco River meets the Charles River and the outlet of Kezar Lake. The put-in might have been on private land, but there was no sign or fence. We loaded the boats, then moved the cars to the roadside, talking first with the closest homeowner who told us that the location would be fine. Just a few minutes cruise down the almost motionless river, a passing pickup truck on the nearby road slowed and the driver shouted repeatedly, "You better not be parked on my land!" We were glad we had moved the cars to a public roadside. (His ire might have been mis-directed, as a kayaker launched at the same time we did and may have left his car by the river.) Later it occurred to us that we might have asked that homeowner if we could park the cars on her large property for a few dollars. The first day's cruise was pleasant and mild. Most of the day passed seeing no other boats. We saw little wildlife for most of the day but did see a rather shy eagle, briefly, and a great blue heron. We lunched in a meadow by the river which had been cleared and mowed but not plowed. A lot of work for little profit. The weather was grey and mild. A few miles further along, we passed under the highway 5 bridge and passed the mouth of the Kezar River (which does not go to either Kezar Lake or Kezar Pond). The nearly still water caused a moment of confusion on which way to go. Continuing along, we reached a point where the current speeded and we passed under a very old covered bridge, called Hemlock Bridge. This is a good put-in spot and a small number of canoes and kayaks were around. After a brief stop, our leader worried that we might lose our intended camping spot if we delayed, so the group separated into a fast group (my boat and his) and a main group. We dashed up against the very light current toward Kezar Pond. There were several kayaks on the lake headed toward the beach, and several canoes already on the beach. Uh oh. After a furious show of speed (considering the heavy state of the boats) against the wind, we reached the beach. (We never learned where the kayakers were camped but they were not aiming for "our" beach.) The families already camped there pointed out a large campsite nearby with a good fire-ring and space for about 4 tents in the woods and more on the beach. Most of us chose the beach, with the overflow in the (mosquito infested) forest. The beach campers were greeted with a few blasts of wind sufficient to lift off the tents making for a frantic grab for rocks to hold down the tent stakes. One of our boats had arrived with a lot of water in the bottom, which turned out to be from a leaking 2.5 gallon water container. Then a poorly situated campstove overturned, losing our boiling water for dinner and nearly burning our cook. This would have been a 911 operation if it had caught her, a close call. We checked our water supplies and found that we were not short despite the losses. Two young boys from the neighboring campsite were very self-confident in donning PFDs and paddling out, saying loudly, "We know right where to go to catch a big fish." They paddled out about 50 yards (still in very shallow water), cast twice before announcing, "We caught one!" Unable to reel it in, they paddled back to the beach with the fish on the line. Their dad told them it was a good-sized pickerel, unhooked it and tossed it back. I guess the kids were right. At sundown I went out for a solo paddle in my now-empty boat, a luxury! I was hoping to see a moose or black bear or at least a deer but none were out. I turned back and arrived at the beach as the last traces of light faded. The pond has only about 6 houses visible from the beach, on miles of shoreline. The moon put on a free show for us, first lighting the thin clouds, then rose to be cut into razor-thin slices by ribbons of cloud. In the morning, we traded paddlers, my 14 year old son joining our leader to make a fast dash back across the lake (again against the wind) to meet up with one additional boat. The rest of us set out for a trip around the southern edge of the pond. Again some confusion -- the outlet is not obvious. I proved that even with a 7-year-old in my bow, I can paddle in the wrong direction as fast as anybody. I got to the wrong place very quickly and had to ask a fisher(wo)man directions to get out of the pond. Oops. Had to navigate out of an area of boulders which all seemed hidden three inches below the surface, too, which is painful for my fiberglass Navarro Loon. Rejoining the group, we paddled down the channel back to Hemlock Bridge. I pointed out a bird nesting just over our heads as we paddled. We met up with the 7th boat. (Later it occurred to some of us that we could have pre-arranged to have that couple bring a refill for our ice.) Another few miles down the quiet river, with few paddlers, and then we saw a portent of things to come. A rubber shark was anchored mid-stream with a group of drunken college kids partying nearby. A radio blared loudly. Boats everywhere. We had reached the confluence of the Saco with the old course Saco. Here we learned the dark side of the Saco -- it is such a pleasant, easy cruise that it invites thousands of drunken party kids, mainly from University of NH. We stopped for lunch and had to leave when the fetid smells the kids leave behind became overpowering. It seems burying waste or packing it out is beyond the skills of this bunch. The river itself remains mellow and inviting. Plenty of downed trees and limbs made the paddle interesting from time to time. We passed under the huge bridge for highway 302 and finally found Walker's Falls, site of an AMC camp. Unlike Swan's Falls, which was nearly empty, Walker's Falls was full (we had reservations) and every nearby sandbar was filled with boisterous youth. At the campground, the caretaker's husband (a sheriff) came around to say hello. He had seen Ms. Schweiker's name on the roster and asked for her autograph. Unfortunately, all his copies of her book had been borrowed and not returned, a good recommendation for the book, I think. She assured him she would paddle this area again. The party crowd really got loud after night fell, waking us repeatedly with firecrackers and other fireworks. But at 2 AM a light rain began, taking the wind out of their sails. The party started again near 3 AM but was doused for good when the rain began to dump heavily. The showers were gone by morning. In the morning, we all watched as others ran the rapids. It is marginally a class-II. Some boats caught the rocks and went through backwards. One pontoon boat got hung up and went through with one person on shore and two in the water. Some "paddlers" went through with beer bottles in hand. After watching some comical boating, we all ran the rapids in empty boats, then loaded up at a downstream landing, and headed out. One of our boats made an early exit at Lovewell Pond, the rest of us continuing about 5 miles more to a popular takeout at highway 160. The crowded takeout at the highway (so popular it requires a cop to direct traffic) was a mess. Drunken kids, gear everywhere, arguments, noise. Finally we got into our two shuttle cars and made the hour trip back to the put-in, returning to find a massive traffic jam. It took over 20 minutes just to get a parking space to load up the car. A few good-byes and a 3-hour ride home completed the trip. I recommend the old course of the Saco, and the nearby ponds. I suggest paddling the popular segments of the Saco either out of season or on a weekday. Using the Lovewell Pond takeout, or anything but the public takeout at highway 160, seems essential for a weekend paddle. The sheriff told us 90,000 people use the Saco each year and somehow the river survives it. -Jerry Hawkins *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 14:30:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08745 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08740 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:27:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15487 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.34.17a705d6 (3964) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34.17a705d6.287ccd3c_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:27:24 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trangia Stoves To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sorry to bring this up again, but I finally did some research and have decided that I want the T27 in the non-stick version with the kettle. I read several times that MSR (the US rep) only imports the T28 which was not recommended much and doesn't come with the pot set. For that, I have my Safesport alcohol stove from The Sportsmans Guide for $15. However, one of the links indicated that Camping World carries them, but I couldn't find the price so I sent them an email requesting info. Another link was to WildDay in Scotland. It so happens that ex #1 is in Glasgow now and returning to Miami on June 27, so I could have it delivered to him. Their delivery charge within the UK is L3.50 (pounds) but they have a nasty 17.5% VAT (value added tax). I imagine if I had it shipped directly to the US (at who knows what shipping costs) the VAT might be eliminated, but that's probably not worth it. Someone (Glenn?) recommended what he called the backpacking stove....any idea which model # that is? Someone called the T27 good for 2 backpackers which is probably a good size...I usually fly 'n camp alone....but have started to go with a companion...so I really would like something that would do for two. Another thing, one of the reviews said that you can take the denatured alcohol on an airplane? Comments? (Don't think this was discusssed in the other messages). thanks sandy kramer who has a bunch of stoves and cooksets (not to mention tents and kayaks!) miami S/HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS!!!!!!! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 14:51:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15158 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15153 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29811 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:49:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26813 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20919 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19032 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f245.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.245]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27593 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:47:27 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.104 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:47:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.104] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Judgement Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:47:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F2452c7qIA3EEmYDKFJ000060ae_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2001 18:47:27.0385 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4160890:01C10970] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "I challenge John Dowd's ability to "teach" that paddler good judgement." Says Dave I have worked since 1975 in the Federal criminal justice system. Many of my clients have no apparent ability to reason out what consequences might result from their actions. Like everything esle in life, in my view, the clients' ability to use "judgement" [foresight] could be placed on a continuum: some have good ability to look way ahead, some only a little ahead, some both, some not at all. If there is anything true of recidivists it is that they are incapable of anticipating consequences. I have also been responsible for training coworkers who never seem to get the "art" of assessing human behavior. I won't even discuss kayak students. What works for the foresight challenged is to make it less of an art and more of a recipe. For people like this, checklists are wonderful. Those of us with years of experience and the ability to look ahead accurately scoff at checklists, but for some people they are literally lifesavers. Common sense is wisdom based on experience. If either or both are lacking, frameworks are a godsend. Can we teach judgement? I don't know. But we can teach prudence [maybe even her sister Temperance] and we can encourage the use of checklists and teamwork in decision making. Now let's discuss what makes a good checklist! Thanks for listening. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 15:16:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23906 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23901 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: DANJW_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17568 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DANJW_at_aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.87.cd9e6e6 (25308) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87.cd9e6e6.287cd84a_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:14:34 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trangia Stoves To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Piragis, a Boundary Waters outfitter has 2 Trangias on their web-site, www.piragis.com. T23 and the Trangia Westwind, they look to be pretty much a minimalist offering from Trangia. Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 15:22:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26715 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26707 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22129 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6AMLsc28941; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:21:55 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330109b7719173e52c_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <34.17a705d6.287ccd3c_at_aol.com> References: <34.17a705d6.287ccd3c_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:19:54 -0500 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trangia Stoves Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have both a 25 and a 27. The smaller might be better if you are going solo. But hey, you can never have too many stoves, tents, sleeping bags, boats... I'd also get some smaller plastic fuel bottles for the shorter trips. The nice thing about the pot-set is that you can also fit some accessories in there. I carry one of those multi-spice canisters, an MSR plastic folding spatula, cleaning supplies and matches inside the stove. Another handy tip, the rough teeth on the strap works great as a match striking surface. As far as fuel is concerned. Buy a gallon of yachting stove fuel. I think the brand is called "No Soot" of something. Cheap and and works as advertised. US Boat/Marine or whatever they are called carries it. -Patrick At 5:27 PM -0400 7/10/01, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: >Sorry to bring this up again, but I finally did some research and have >decided that I want the T27 in the non-stick version with the kettle. > >I read several times that MSR (the US rep) only imports the T28 which was not >recommended much and doesn't come with the pot set. For that, I have my >Safesport alcohol stove from The Sportsmans Guide for $15. > >However, one of the links indicated that Camping World carries them, but I >couldn't find the price so I sent them an email requesting info. > >Another link was to WildDay in Scotland. It so happens that ex #1 is in >Glasgow now and returning to Miami on June 27, so I could have it delivered >to him. > >Their delivery charge within the UK is L3.50 (pounds) but they have a nasty >17.5% VAT (value added tax). I imagine if I had it shipped directly to the >US (at who knows what shipping costs) the VAT might be eliminated, but that's >probably not worth it. > >Someone (Glenn?) recommended what he called the backpacking stove....any idea >which model # that is? Someone called the T27 good for 2 backpackers which >is probably a good size...I usually fly 'n camp alone....but have started to >go with a companion...so I really would like something that would do for two. > >Another thing, one of the reviews said that you can take the denatured >alcohol on an airplane? Comments? (Don't think this was discusssed in the >other messages). > >thanks > >sandy kramer who has a bunch of stoves and cooksets (not to mention tents and >kayaks!) >miami > > S/HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS!!!!!!! > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 16:51:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23473 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23425 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ktazp597.kp.org (ca1-smtp.kp.org [162.119.233.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21246 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.kp.org (relay.tointerior.grn [172.21.128.22]) by ktazp597.kp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02905 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oa.or.kp.org by ktazp599.crdc.kp.org with ESMTP for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:48:05 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.OA.OR.KP.ORG by OA.OR.KP.ORG (PMDF V6.0-24 #46285) id <01K5RU4W42PC00FR94_at_OA.OR.KP.ORG> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop.mts.kpnw.org (ns0105.or.kp.org [10.50.3.95]) by OA.OR.KP.ORG (PMDF V6.0-24 #46285) with ESMTP id <01K5RU4VMT3S00H2GQ_at_OA.OR.KP.ORG> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:47:28 -0700 From: "E. Sullivan" <sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org> Subject: [Paddlewise] Depoe Bay to Yachats To: pw <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Reply-to: sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org Message-Id: <3B4B9410.A296F875_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org> Organization: Kaiser Permanente MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm heading doon the coast Saturday. I've only paddled as far south as D. Bay. Any suggestions for particularly toothsome venues from there to Yachats for a long day paddle? Thanks E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 17:13:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01124 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01119 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au ([203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07067 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex1.amsa.gov.au (cbrex1.amsa.gov.au.253.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.253.17] (may be forged)) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA06873 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:10:23 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex1.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:13:05 +1000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Judgement Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:13:05 +1000 Message-ID: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D2BFED8_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] Judgement Thread-Index: AcEJjE2a97c6K7JCQRaZ2WofnAuf8QAEdyPw From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2001 00:13:05.0677 (UTC) FILETIME=[41D0CBD0:01C1099E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id RAA01120 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I find a little bit of fear helps in making the right judgement David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 19:29:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11426 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11419 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from empowering.com (administrator_at_ns2.empowering.com [216.91.174.232]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02183 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dell (24.217.145.199) by empowering.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0.2) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:28:48 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c109b1$3ee15260$c791d918_at_dell> From: "WhiteRabbit" <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D2BFED8_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Judgement Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:29:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm not so sure that fear helps judgment. You have to have enough judgment to be afraid. A case in point: We paddled a section of the Illinois River this weekend getting ready for the River Ramble. Part of the exercise was to get used to the heavy boat traffic that we would encounter of several stretches. As we approached a ferry crossing we met a tow coming up river. It was obvious as we approached the ferry landing that the ferry was waiting on the other side of the river for the tow to pass and would cut as close behind the tow boat as he considered safe. Warnings were given to all boaters and three of us were well clear of the landing when the ferry crossed behind the tow boat. The fourth was right in harms way forcing the ferry to back off. Had the ferry captain not seen the other three of us looking back up river and been looking for a small craft it might have been very close. This fourth paddler acknowledged that she knew the ferry was coming but saw no reason to hurry and "it was interesting watching the ferry dock." While this paddler is new to kayaks she has been paddling canoes for over 25 years. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I don't give a damn for a man who can spell a word only one way. Mark Twain WhiteRabbit - ICQ#111665477 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Judgement > I find a little bit of fear helps in making the right judgement > > David > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 10 21:21:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16077 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16038 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:20:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10670 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.c0.16e8707e (4326) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c0.16e8707e.287d2df9_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:20:09 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Fear (was judgment) To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, When it comes to sea kayaking, I don't sweat the skills, endurance or even the judgment aspects of the sport. I believe I pretty much have these things down. What really gets me is fear. I know very well what could happen, and it scares the hell out of me. Maybe my fear is more like paranoia, but like I heard a psychology professor once say in a lecture, paranoia is simply a heightened sense of awareness. I experience fear almost everytime I paddle. Although a certain amount of fear may be healthy and fun, I tend to have a lot of it, and it burdens me. I have trips planned this year that scare the hell out of me, and because of it, I loose sleep and waste time wondering if I should even be doing these silly things. There are so many things that could go wrong on a sea kayaking trip, and the fear of it can be crippling, possibly preventing the start of a trip or the enjoyment of it while it is underway. It could even cause panic in the face of an emergency. Fear in sea kayaking is another aspect of the sport that has to be dealt with, like the wind and waves. By far, my greatest challenge in sea kayaking is handling fear. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 05:29:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16653 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16648 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (www02.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11179 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.157.51]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:27:50 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] What makes a good checklist! Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:27:06 +1000 Message-ID: <000801c10a04$cdb25d10$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2001 12:27:50.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[E68EA6E0:01C10A04] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jim Tibensky wrote > Now let's discuss what makes a good checklist! G'Day Being a novice kayaker with good judgement and poor memory I use a combination of check list and ritual as follows. I ALWAYS keep a PFD, two Dry bags and a Deck bag prepacked with the following gear: flares, whistle, smoke, dye, signal mirror, EPIRB, VHF, duct tape, Leatherman tool, torch, water, sun cream, sweets or power food, throw bag, compass, knife, hat, First Aid kit, money, space blanket. I always check weather, tide and sea report the night before and on the day no matter how trivial the trip may seem. (the double check gives a feel for weather pattern). If the trip is into an unfamiliar area than always check the charts even if someone else is planning the trip, learn't the need for this the hard way. Six boat checks before pushing off: Are all the bags stowed Are the hatches secure, Is my PFD on, Is the paddle tethered, Is the paddle float stowed, Is the spray skirt loop accessible If this sounds over the top I could relate a story of a trip which I thought would be just a few hundred meters off shore that turned into a 5 hour battle requiring several rescues in which much of the above equipment would have been useful if only it had been carried. Of course ritual and check lists shouldn't lull one into a sense of false security, All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 05:53:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA25357 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25352 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usermail0.netnitco.net (usermail0.netnitco.net [216.176.128.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25989 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epsrenne ([4.45.154.87]) by usermail0.netnitco.net (8.11.4/8.10.1/052400) with SMTP id f6BCphj72540 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:51:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002201c10a08$9a8973c0$579a2d04_at_epsrenne> From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F2452c7qIA3EEmYDKFJ000060ae_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Judgement Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:52:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jim Tibensky wrote: >>>> Like everything esle in life, in my view, the clients' ability to use "judgement" [foresight] could be placed on a continuum: some have good ability to look way ahead, some only a little ahead, some both, some not at all....<snip> What works for the foresight challenged is to make it less of an art and more of a recipe. For people like this, checklists are wonderful.<<<<< > But how, in a paddling environment, do you get the foresight-challenged to use checklists? >>>>> Can we teach judgement? I don't know. But we can teach prudence [maybe even her sister Temperance] and we can encourage the use of checklists and teamwork in decision making.<<<<< > Maybe we better define terms, because prudence ("wise in practical things; careful,cautious") and temperance ("moderation; avoidance of extremes") can be considered synonyms for, or componenets of judgement ("ability to make a decision or form an opinion; discernment, quickness of mental perception"). Checklists may work in the criminal court system where things are more black and white, but I'm not so sure that checklists are a workable solution in the paddling community. The teamwork element, however, IS important in the development of good judgement. David White wrote: > I find a little bit of fear helps in making the right judgement > I agree, as a bit of fear is usually the result of comprehending that there might be consequences. Past a certain threshold, though, fear incapacitates people and makes their decision-making process less rational. On the one hand, I know individuals who appear to have not even the slightest inkling of fear, and these individuals often tend to get spanked by conditions on the water. Makes me wonder whether these individuals are incapable of seeing potential consequences, or they truly believe that they are capable of anything they set out to do? I'd like to think that these people would eventually learn that they need to temper their decisions based on their past history of getting spanked in similar circumstances..... On the other hand, I also know people who, in my estimation, have the skills to padlle in more extreme circumstances than they do, and become so scared at the prospect that they don't paddle to their potential. With gentle prodding, some of these folks can be made to realize their potential. Pressures of various sorts can cloud or negate one's judgement. Time pressure (the "I gotta get back" syndrome) has been discussed before on this list and is a factor. Unspoken peer pressure is another factor. Client expectations and monetary issues are factors. And maybe personal demons ("I gotta do this!") also contribute to bad judgement. How does one deal with these pressures? When paddling solo, the issue of judgement is purely a personal one, but in a group setting, open and honest group communication - even at the risk of pissing someone off - is IMO a very important factor in issues pertaining to risk management/judgement. Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 07:19:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20556 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20551 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19911 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id HAA19530; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010711095837.01c66cc0_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:18:29 -0400 To: Strosaker_at_aol.com From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fear (was judgment) Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <c0.16e8707e.287d2df9_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 12:20 AM 7/11/2001 -0400, Strosaker_at_aol.com wrote: >...What really gets me is fear. I know very well what could happen, and >it scares the hell out of me. ... >Duane We should grant the sea and sky a generous measure of awe, and a certain dose of fear. They can do to you what was done to the Edmund Fitzgerald or the Titanic, especially if you lose that healthy measure of awe and respect. Weather forecasts can make us forget that weather is highly variable; the predictable movements of tides can make us forget that the sea can rage. A simple solo day trip out on some of my favorite protected waters (south end of San Francisco Bay) with a very pleasant weather forecast and helpful tides, suddenly and without warning turned into an hour of fear. The wind began gusting from 15-25kt against the direction of the tide, kicking up some nasty wave action. I can deal with that. But the wind kept changing direction by the minute, creating unpredictable conditions. The same Bay that had been a pleasant paddle an hour before was a confused mass of whitecaps going in almost random directions. I found a protected spot and used my cell phone to get my wife to pick me up from an alternate takeout. A healthy dose of fear kept me out of trouble that day. Paddling out of Marblehead, MA, last month, the forecast was for 5-10 MPH wind from the NW, making for an easy, protected paddle. Reality: The wind peaked at 23 Kt and was from the W and SW, making for rock & roll. If I had been solo that day I would have stayed in the harbor; but with experienced people in other boats it was an excellent day. Never trust the sea too much when there is no one to help you. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 07:21:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22767 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22729 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10602.mail.yahoo.com (web10602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.166]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21590 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010711142125.71304.qmail_at_web10602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.224.162] by web10602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:21:25 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Whilden on Danger... To: Kevin Whilden <kwhilden_at_yourplanetearth.org>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Kevin, I've often had the same reasoning with regard to sea kayaking, but never have I been able to present such a short analogy. Can I share it with my students? Thanks, Shawn Kevin Whilden <kwhilden_at_yourplanetearth.org> wrote: >I then usually astound people by declaring that whitewater kayaking is >a good bit safer of an endeavor than sea kayaking. I answer their >incredulous stare by explaining that the risks in whitewater are quite >obvious and people who take up the sport spend a lot of mental effort >learning how to deal with those risks at the start of their career. In >sea kayaking, the risks are often totally non-apparent to the >inexperienced, and it is very easy to get in "over your head". Just >about any fool can get in a sea kayak and in five minutes paddle >further away from shore than they can swim. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 07:40:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27891 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27837 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02982 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21046; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010711103129.028b2e80_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:37:36 -0400 To: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>, Strosaker_at_aol.com From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fear (was judgment) Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010711095837.01c66cc0_at_diablo.cisco.com> References: <c0.16e8707e.287d2df9_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:18 AM 7/11/01 -0400, Gerald Hawkins wrote: >A simple solo day trip out on some of my favorite protected waters (south >end of San Francisco Bay) with a very pleasant weather forecast and >helpful tides, suddenly and without warning turned into an hour of >fear. The wind began gusting from 15-25kt against the direction of the >tide, kicking up some nasty wave action. Speaking of changing weather conditions... I noticed in the latest Canoe & Kayak magazine an advertisement for a new device called a "Storm Detector" (I think that was the name). It's a small electronic device that is supposed to be able to detect electrical storms up to 70 miles away then provide range, speed, and ETA of the storm to your location. It's an interesting device but it's quite expensive ($599). Has anyone tried one? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 08:03:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05394 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05388 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nile.intac.com (root_at_nile.intac.com [198.6.114.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17658 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust159.tnt3.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.39.102.159]) by nile.intac.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ktb) with SMTP id LAA24492 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003101c10a1a$1d532420$9f66273f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <c0.16e8707e.287d2df9_at_aol.com> <5.0.1.4.2.20010711103129.028b2e80_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fear (was judgment) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:59:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I noticed in the latest Canoe & Kayak magazine an advertisement for a new > device called a "Storm Detector" (I think that was the name). It's a small > electronic device that is supposed to be able to detect electrical storms > up to 70 miles away then provide range, speed, and ETA of the storm to > your location. It's an interesting device but it's quite expensive > ($599). Has anyone tried one? > No, but I'd run across suggestions in the past to carry a portable AM radio tuned to an unused freguency around 1 MHz (i.e. 1000 on the dial..) If there's a storm in the vicinity you'll hear the crackling -- a lot of energy is produced around that frequency range. You won't get direction, but you'll be alerted. Mainly that was mentioned for hiking, but should work as well on open water. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 08:56:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21021 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21016 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22822 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23150 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21444 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29750 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from way2.kewl.com.au (root_at_way2.kewl.com.au [203.46.10.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07136 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 02:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u77 ([203.185.221.81]) by way2.kewl.com.au (8.9.2/8.9.2/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA04146 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:58:26 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <000301c109f0$7fe1f3c0$51ddb9cb_at_u77> From: "kate" <gokate_at_kewl.com.au> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107092144.OAA22512_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] disabled kayakers Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:29:00 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi everyone I am a disabled kayaker and have Cerebral Palsy. Started kayaking a couple of months ago and love it. I use a two seater ocean kayak but mainly kayak in creeks and rivers. Because I cant support my back very well I have a strap which goes around my waist and two straps from that which go around my feet. This helps me sit up but must look hilarious to other people. We have about ten disabled kayakers in our group (one is blind). Recently I went in a 12 km kayak race. Luckily for me it ended at a pub!! Came third last against able bodied people but it was wonderful to finish. The people who take us kayaking are volunteers and do a wonderful job. I would encourage able bodied kayakers to take a disabled person kayaking - we learn a lot from you and you will learn a lot from us. Cathy Gold Coast Australia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 09:02:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23895 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23889 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27542 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24427 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21466 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16302 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink6.onlink.net (onlink6.onlink.net [206.108.253.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09218 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jwinters (nrba2-96.onlink.net [209.105.209.40]) by onlink6.onlink.net (8.11.0/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6BCOIY113874 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:24:19 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c10a04$ef01bce0$d299fea9_at_jwinters> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107101541.IAA22355_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:27:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob wrote: > I built a new Greenland stick a week or two back, and tried it out on an > easy 5 day trip from Porcher Island (Welcome Harbour, for those familiar > with these waters) back to Prince Rupert. ETC< large SNIP I built a new Euro style stick a month ago, and tried it out on a three day trip on Georgian Bay. The paddle was a modification of the"traditional" Euro design, being about 6 inches shorter and 1/2" narrower than most Euro style paddles. It was made from cedar and ash laminations and weighed 650 grams. It worked as I had hoped, lots of drive, a slower velocity in the water, even a LOWER cadence compared to those using traditional paddles. It was surprisingly dry and my clear rubber drip rings did a fine job of keeping my hands dry. My drip rings came from a friend and are clear soft plastic so do not look bad at all. Don't know who made them. The bottom line is, the engineers who developed these blades got it pretty close to right by applying modern hydrodynamic theory. Staying dry was not a possibility I had foreseen when I made these design changes particularly with my upright sprint style stroke. The other folks on the trip were quite surprised at how well it worked. The trip leader had great visions of it snapping, and everyone marvelled at how powerful it is. They did not think it would work, but it does. Theory may claim that traditional designs should be better, but as we have already noticed from discussions on this list, maybe we don't know enough theory yet. Cheers, J. Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 09:03:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23911 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23906 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27766 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24440 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21473 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16812 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kayaks_at_dejazzd.com Received: from mail.site.dejazzd.com (mail.dejazzd.com [209.173.31.24]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11395 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 05:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.173.31.24] by mail.site.dejazzd.com (InterMail vK.4.03.03.00 201-232-128 license 6281e8c5dc0874d410f744903e28fd00) with SMTP id <20010711122828.RMLF14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:28:28 -0400 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Re: Trangia Stoves Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 8:28:28 EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20010711122828.RMLF14686.mail_at_[209.173.31.24]> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Try http://www.msrcorp.com/prod/prod_trangia.htm#3 I have the Mini 28-5 which is a nice basic set. They also import the 25 which is more comprehensive (windscreen; more pots, etc) and available in non-stick. And, click the 'Buy Online' button to get a list of merchants who sell MSR products online. What you'll find is that many of them do not list the Trangia stoves. I finally had to send email to MSR customer service and ask them who carried the Trangia stoves. I don't have that information anymore, but they will be able to help you. Glenn > > From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com > Date: 2001/07/10 Tue PM 05:27:24 EDT > To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trangia Stoves > > Sorry to bring this up again, but I finally did some research and have > decided that I want the T27 in the non-stick version with the kettle. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 09:12:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26834 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26801 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03664 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25822 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21534 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20382 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com (comet.pacifier.com [199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19669 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip220.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.220]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6BEHBi23754; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4C5FC6.29209995_at_pacifier.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:16:38 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] What makes a good checklist! References: <000801c10a04$cdb25d10$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Peter Osman wrote: > Being a novice kayaker with good judgement and poor memory I use a > combination of check list and ritual as follows. > > I ALWAYS keep a PFD, two Dry bags and a Deck bag prepacked with the > following gear: flares, whistle, smoke, dye, signal mirror, EPIRB, VHF, duct > tape, Leatherman tool, torch, water, sun cream, sweets or power food, throw > bag, compass, knife, hat, First Aid kit, money, space blanket. > > I always check weather, tide and sea report the night before and on the day > no matter how trivial the trip may seem. (the double check gives a feel for > weather pattern). If the trip is into an unfamiliar area than always check > the charts even if someone else is planning the trip, learn't the need for > this the hard way. > > Six boat checks before pushing off: > Are all the bags stowed > Are the hatches secure, > Is my PFD on, > Is the paddle tethered, > Is the paddle float stowed, > Is the spray skirt loop accessible Peter's checklist is primarily gear-oriented, and a good one for that. For the purpose of encouraging the development of good judgement, I'd focus in a different direction, and include questions like these: 1. What piece of today's paddle is likely to be the trickiest? What changes in wind and current will make it worse? Suppose that stretch of water is really nasty when we get to it. Are there alternatives? Is there a way to circumvent the gnarly place? 2. Is everyone at about the same skill level or are there paddlers we should all watch and monitor? Should we designate a sweep? If so, how does the sweep communicate with the rest of us? If we need to split the group, what is our tentative plan for composition of each fragment? 3. Is everyone comfortable being the "chicken" and asking for a change to a less-demanding route (etc.)? Do we have a process for deciding to bag the day's paddle? Do we trust it? 4. What's my least-favorite paddling dilemma -- following seas, a surf landing, or a long, rough crossing? What bugs others? Not sure these questions per se will develop judgement, but the dialog which ensues as paddlers consider them should help train new folks in some of the ways of judging. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 09:12:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25838 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25791 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02780 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25367 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21527 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05167 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18553 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 06:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.103.150.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.103.150]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA11780; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01c10a0d$e2729fe0$9667f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F2452c7qIA3EEmYDKFJ000060ae_at_hotmail.com> <002201c10a08$9a8973c0$579a2d04_at_epsrenne> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Judgment Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:32:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> SNIPPED > Pressures of various sorts can cloud or negate one's judgement. > Time pressure (the "I gotta get back" syndrome) has been > discussed before on this list and is a factor. Unspoken peer > pressure is another factor. Client expectations and monetary > issues are factors. And maybe personal demons ("I gotta do > this!") also contribute to bad judgement. > > How does one deal with these pressures? When paddling solo, the > issue of judgement is purely a personal one, but in a group > setting, open and honest group communication - even at the risk > of pissing someone off - is IMO a very important factor in > issues pertaining to risk management/judgement. That client point is a considerable one that definitely clouds judgment. I have seen it played out where the commercial group should have, at some point, pulled out, i.e. aborted the trip while out on the water, but didn't because the clients had paid big bucks, which would have to fully or partially be refunded. As for peer pressure, it takes guts to face up to a loud mouth who is insisting that the group paddle on and are wimps if they don't. I have seen someone, who always struck me as timid, actually stand up to a bullying, accomplished paddler who was being a jerk. No one wants to look weak or be seen as chickening out. I think it was Jack Martin who mentioned being out with a group of accomplished paddlers in very dicey conditions and all trying to be non-chalant about it. When one of them, I think Jack, decided it was time to call it quits all the others were more than happy, in stampede fashion, to head back in. :-) Sometimes when faced with something it is good to borrow some thought/adage from another discipline. I think the carpenter's rule is a good one: "measure twice, cut once." i.e. use judgment, make a decision, then re-think that judgment and decision again before finally acting upon it. (I think one exception to this would be in rescues. Don't stop and say "gee there are five methods I can use here; let me think about which is the best;" do the first one that comes to mind or presents itself. I know of one situation where a boat went over and the leader pondered which rescue approach to use. Meanwhile the situation got trickier. Someone else just went in and did the rescue. Too much thinking can be a dangerous thing :-)) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 09:14:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27272 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27267 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05250 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25968 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21546 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02850 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f62.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.62]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15159 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 07:57:37 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.96 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:57:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.96] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Judgement Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:57:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F62WgUSp3sJWGYdRGy900009b22_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2001 14:57:37.0784 (UTC) FILETIME=[D341A780:01C10A19] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Eric Sprenne [Hi Eric!] writes: But how, in a paddling environment, do you get the foresight-challenged to use checklists? and Checklists may work in the criminal court system where things are more black and white, but I'm not so sure that checklists are a workable solution in the paddling community. The teamwork element, however, IS important in the development of good judgement. Me: Getting people who don't know better to do the right thing, whether using a checklist, using their brain or using the experience of a group is the challenge. Sea Kayker magazine published an article that had a checklist for conditions [to paddle or not to paddle]including tide, weather, temperature, wind and so on. Teaching new paddlers to use such things might be a good start. The checklists I was thinking of in regard to my professional life are in drug and alcohol treatment for avoiding relapse - not nearly black and white. And they do work, sometimes. I use checklists when packing for trips, one for my single, one for my double, one for summer, one for winter. They are never followed without alteration, but they are great for making it less likely that I will forget something. And one thing sometimes makes me think of another. In Greenland in the summer a flashlight is a total waste of space, on the Mississippi in the winter an extra one is a really good idea. So I adjust according to the conditions I anticipate I will face. I meant it when I asked for a discussion of checklists. I would love to learn more about what other people use for safety, not for packing. And great instructor that you are , Eric, you know how different people's learning and thinking and reacting styles can be. The trick here, I think, is to reach the ones who are not in the habit of being insightful, cautious or maybe humble. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 10:24:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19180 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19173 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22348 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.25.17eb8ef3 (4242) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <25.17eb8ef3.287de554_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:22:28 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hennessy Hammocks To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Well, since we're rehashing air travel and stoves...why not the HH? In conversation with another gearhead on Sunday I was convinced (not that it takes very much!) that this was a super-duper gotta-have item! Hey, I grew up in Venezuela...hammocks are a tradition there! Just wanted to let you know that the "original" $99 HH is now on clearance for $79. It is being replaced by the Expedition model that, for $119, includes tree huggers (protects trees and enables a greater distance between trees), full vecro on the opening, and a mesh compartment bag. 2.5 lbs. I've ordered the $79 special, plus $10 for the tree huggers and will make my own bag. they have an ultralight backpacker version that weighs 1.5 lbs and costs $149. I remember that last year someone was trying to make or improve on an HH because he needed more room. They now have (new for 2001) a model called the Safari Deluxe ($139) that weighs 3.4 lbs. and is 11' long. 300 lb weight limit. www.hennessyhammock.com or 888-539-2930 (f you call Ann she can tell you what colors she has available...there is quite a variety. I was lucky because she had one with the full velcro that I got for the $79 price. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 11:18:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05259 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05254 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prserv.net (out4.prserv.net [32.97.166.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00368 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 204.146.249.66 (slip-32-100-53-145.la.us.prserv.net[32.100.53.145]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <2001071118182820403lakbpe>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 18:18:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 27284 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2001 13:14:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:14:03 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Edwin Johnson <elj_at_shreve.net> X-Sender: elj_at_sky1.elj.org To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1,Dowd on Judgment Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107111304400.27269-100000_at_sky1.elj.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The judgment angle: These are viewpoints from a former school teacher and more appropriate to this discussion, a flight instructor. It may be a matter of semantics, but we are not actually teaching judgment, but how to _make_ good judgments. As instructors we are responsible for giving the tools to our students so that they can learn to make good judgments. These tools are often scenarios from our own experiences and knowledge of the subject, hence causes and effects. Certain actions lead to certain consequences. "If you do this, then this action may/will happen". Hopefully the student has enough respect for your knowledge to absorb some of this. A lot of times narratives of our own experiences, sometimes not so fortunate experiences, help. Timely humor can also help in a teaching situation. Often demonstrations/practice of these causes and effects will re-enforce these ideas, and sometimes this even calls for (educators will yell 'perish the thought') what we term negative re-enforcement. (If you dive straight down to the ground in an airplane, it can kill you! Don't do that!) (I know, weak example. <grin>) The bottom line is that as instructors we are to give our students these tools from our storehouse of knowledge so that they can formulate plans of action for different situations. Real learning takes place when this thinking process carries over to situations not ever mentioned and these students are able to handle those with good judgment. But remember that many students hear you but don't actually listen to what you are saying. Each individually learns somewhat differently, so we try our best to find that method and give what we can to them. >> Judgment is really something hard to teach. >I wonder if it can be taught, inasmuch as "judging" involves >some higher-order cognitive functions that may be there for >some folks and not for others. I paddle with a guy who is not >reckless, per se, but his capacity for predicting the >consequences of his choices is limited. If one can not foresee ...Edwin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj_at_shreve.net ~ ~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~ ~ ~ ~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~ ~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~ ~ for there you have been, there you long ~ ~ to return." -- da Vinci ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 11:54:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17177 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17169 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23958 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20610 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21641 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13652 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f90.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.90]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13018 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:09:48 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.24 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:09:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.24] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Checklist Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:09:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F90UnHAaaz7EjQxzmWe00009c7a_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2001 17:09:48.0733 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A786ED0:01C10A2C] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave - I like your response. And Peter's. Thank you for sharing it. It gave me the idea that we might have a "designated chicken" on trips. I am the kayak leader of trips for a youth group where we do "adventure therapy" We take teens who are ordered to go on our kayak trip or do community service or go to the slammer. Weirdly, many choose to go kayaking! Anyway, these kiddies are often big time risk takers with no thought that they will live much longer. So surfing three foot ocean waves their first time in a kayak is not courage or trust, it's lack of judgement. We're always messing with their minds anyway, so this year I'm going to ask that there be a "designated chicken" every day of the trip [Georgian Bay] to see if they can point out potential risks. And then have the group decide what will be done to mitigate the risks. This could be a fun way to introduce the topic of safety. And maybe it can carry over into life in general. Always the dreamer, Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 13:40:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19403 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19397 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04848 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05066 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21798 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15806 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25487 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03508 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA21759 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:31:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107112031.NAA21759_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Checklist X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> > the idea that we might have a "designated chicken" on trips. I am the kayak > leader of trips for a youth group where we do "adventure therapy" We take > teens who are ordered to go on our kayak trip or do community service or go > to the slammer. Weirdly, many choose to go kayaking! What a forward-thinking legal system you have! This is a great idea. I thought of doing something similar back when I lived in the Austin area but didn't know how to go about setting something up like that. How did you get the judicial system to work with you on this? Was there much trouble in convincing the courts to go along? Can you give any of us pointers on how we could get involved this way and convince the courts along this line of "adventure therapy." What about insurance issues? What about parents? Do you require their signatures or is this something the courts don't require. I think sea kayaking could be an excellent confidence and team builder. Do you take your youth group on primitive camping trips? Would love to hear more about these trips. I think it's a great idea! Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 14:25:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04959 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04954 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07267 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12256 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21894 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04226 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail4.enter.net (mail4.enter.net [63.65.0.24]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04304 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m60P-2-22.enter.net (m60P-2-22.enter.net [207.18.8.124]) by mail4.enter.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6BLLK842745 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107112121.f6BLLK842745_at_mail4.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> From: "skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> Organization: Enter.Net To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:24:28 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Rules in Canada X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net For our expert Canadian Paddlers: 1. What's a 7-point light? 2. Who can say a few words about the ban and threat of fines for any paddler caught paddling among the beluga whales on the Saguanay River over there on the north side of the St Lawrence? Thanks, Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 19:58:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18092 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18085 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17259 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27094 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22067 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 20:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08714 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f155.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28916 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:27:58 -0700 Received: from 63.57.162.160 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 02:27:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.57.162.160] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Adventure Therapy kayaking Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:27:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F155WgUSp3sJWGYdRGy00004453_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2001 02:27:58.0718 (UTC) FILETIME=[440E99E0:01C10A7A] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie [I'm honored!] wrote: How did you get the judicial system to work with you on this? Was there much trouble in convincing the courts to go along? Can you give any of us pointers on how we could get involved this way and convince the courts along this line of "adventure therapy." What about insurance issues? What about parents? Do you require their signatures or is this something the courts don't require. I think sea kayaking could be an excellent confidence and team builder. Do you take your youth group on primitive camping trips? Would love to hear more about these trips. I think it's a great idea! Answer: The trips are organized through Omni Youth Services of the Chicago suburbs. The parents must give permission and must attend the pre and post trip meetings with their children. They also must pay for the expenses. All camping is in tents but primitive, especially when out on the sea kayak trips. Omni has the insurance. I met their counselors at an ACA certification program. None of the counselors passed. So I volunteered to be their Kayak Guy. I have a drug counselor background and offered to work for food only, so they accepted. [I got the better end of that deal!] My elementary school teacher wife also goes on some trips. So far we have gone to the barrier islands off Wilmington, N. Carolina; Matagorda Island in Texas; the Mississippi Palisades in Illinois [combined with rock climbing]; islands off southern Maine [I can't remember the town nearby]; and this August we go to Georgian Bay, Ontario. The courts already contract with Omni for counseling, so the adventure therapy in lieu of community service or jail was not a big leap. The Office of Juvenile Justice Programs web site has information about how adventure therapy works all over the country and even listed, back in 1998 I think, about 400 programs complete with names and addresses and program descriptions. Other Omni activities include ice and rock and mountain climbing, winter camping, cross country skiing and backpacking. Each kid must keep a diary in which he or she answers four questions daily: What did I do for the team today? What did I let the team do for me today? What did I learn about myself today? What could I do better tomorrow? Answers are shared every evening around the campfire. No teen is allowed to isolate, ever. On the van rides they cannot listen to headphones unless it is when others are sleeping and it is dark. The exception is for those who have parental permisssion to smoke - they must go off alone to do it, it cannot be a social activity. The Omni counselors decide who earns how much community service time, so if a kid really messes up, he or she doesn't satisfy the court's requirements. It's a really fun time but it isn't a vacation. So far everyone has come back alive and happy, no serious discipline problems. And some of the kids actually have life-changing experiences. One girl had been ducking residential drug treatment because she had never, in her mind, succeeded at anything. After she proved to be a star rock climber on the Mississippi River trip she entered drug treatment five days after she got home. I think sea kayaking is a particularly good activity because we require all the kiddies to go in doubles. And they switch partners. [And they can't escape on the water or from the islands!] At Matagorda we paddled with dolphins, in Maine with seals. In Maine we bought lobsters right from the lobstermen. Not your average urban experiences. I fell into this thing, so I don't know how someone else might get so lucky. Contact local youth counseling services or schools or juvenile probation offices and see if they have outdoor programs, I guess. If more details about Omni are desired, I'll contact their outdoor education guy and ask if I can publish or share his email address. Hope I've answered the questions. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 22:07:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28641 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28636 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06890 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13285 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22178 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:14:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107120514.WAA22178_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] More on Texas Water Safari X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Someone forwarded this URL to me of an article in the Austin paper on the Texas Water Safari. It's well written, very funny, and mind boggling. You'll find yourself amazed as well as thinking "These people are a bunch of lunatics." Here's the URL for the article with a link to a photo gallery: http://www.austin360.com/local/partners/aas/metro/061701/17safari.html And here are some excerpts from the article (by Patrick Beach): SEADRIFT - They paddle hard for 40 or 60 or 100 hours, 260 miles down the San Marcos and Guadalupe rivers, then across San Antonio Bay, along the way confronting dams, logjams, fire ants, alligators, snakes and their own better judgment. They go without sleep so long that they hallucinate. ..... So begins a long night when racers become exhausted and disoriented. Many entertain hallucinations. In fact, one area downriver is such a popular spot for blowing one's mind that it's called Hallucination Alley. No one has reported thinking they were on a journey to meet Col. Kurtz, but things get colorful. One year, Tom Goynes was so tired he was convinced he was dreaming about the Safari, and the only way to end the dream was to stop paddling and find his bed. He got out and wandered around for hours. He remembers hearing a strange chirping sound. He later learned the sound is the distress call of baby alligators, and that the mother had to be close by. Then there was the guy from England who had an amnesia attack, wandered off, woke up in the middle of a field and didn't even know what country he was in. Another racer heard a phone ringing in a booth and got out to answer a tree. One racer picked up the pace dramatically overnight. When his team captain asked how he'd done it, the racer said he paddled hard all night because he was being chased by a submarine. hmmmm... wonder if it was that momma gator? see the very long article for more insanity and an answer to the almost 40-year-old question... "Why do these folks *do* this?" Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 11 22:07:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28659 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28654 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06925 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13331 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22185 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27653 Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:01:11 -0700 (PDT) From: volinjo_at_juno.com Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.73]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02975 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yTmoM4onTJyg4drQy4WmdRQwj3wgprB/aX4UdJNzZSw/Lm/xHEj0KQ=="> Received: (from volinjo_at_juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F95E2YYR; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:01:02 EDT To: Strosaker_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:27:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fear (was judgment) Message-ID: <20010712.010119.-4084199.0.volinjo_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Boy, I never would have guessed that about you, Duane. From your accounts of the paddling that you do, I always thought that you were one of those rare people who either don't feel fear or else who handle it really well. The longer we stay on this list, and the more communications that are exchanged, the more complex people turn out to be. There are no simple categories. You know, they say that the great actress Sarah Bernhardt experienced such crippling stage fright that she threw up in her dressing room before almost every performance, even when she was the toast of the Continent. So you see, you just never know.... Joan . What really gets me is fear. I know very well what could > happen, and > it scares the hell out of me. Maybe my fear is more like paranoia, > but like > I heard a psychology professor once say in a lecture, paranoia is > simply a > heightened sense of awareness. > > I experience fear almost everytime I paddle. Although a certain > amount of > fear may be healthy and fun, I tend to have a lot of it, and it > burdens me. > I have trips planned this year that scare the hell out of me, and > because of > it, I loose sleep and waste time wondering if I should even be doing > these > silly things. There are so many things that could go wrong on a sea > kayaking > trip, and the fear of it can be crippling, possibly preventing the > start of a > trip or the enjoyment of it while it is underway. It could even > cause panic > in the face of an emergency. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 00:35:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14843 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14831 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-2-49.oz.net [216.39.134.113]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA06377 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:41:26 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEGEMICFAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John wrote: >>>>>>>The paddle was a modification of the"traditional" Euro design, being about 6 inches shorter and 1/2" narrower than most Euro style paddles.<<<<<<< So how long and wide are most Euro style paddles? What was your paddles length and blade dimensions and how else was it different from the traditional Euro paddle? Maybe the 6" shorter length made it more efficient but not knowing the length I cannot apply my experience in this regard to what John noticed. Also, in the same vein but on a different subject, it would sure help me understand them better if when somebody comments about the pros and cons of some added feature on a kayak that also they say what kayak or kayaks that the device helped or hurt (in their experience). The kayak one is using can make a big difference in ones perception of the benefits or problems due to accessories (such as rudders or skegs) but those with limited experience tend to over generalize the value or lack of value of the accessory. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 05:10:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09711 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09705 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24673 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([210.50.70.163]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:08:02 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Storm detector - was fear Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:07:13 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01c10acb$306a3470$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2001 12:08:03.0425 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D476D10:01C10ACB] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Joe Pylka wrote: - >I'd run across suggestions in the past to carry a portable AM >radio tuned to an unused freguency around 1 MHz (i.e. 1000 on the dial..) >If there's a storm in the vicinity you'll hear the crackling -- a lot of >energy is produced around that frequency range. You won't get direction, >but you'll be alerted. A radio tuned to the high end of medium wave (i.e standard broadcast band not VHF) is certainly useful for picking up storms - we used them all the time in the lab because every time there was a major storm in Sydney the local electricity supply would fail wrecking the tuning on our instruments. By using the radio we had about half an hours grace to power the machines down - expect something similar would apply on the water. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 05:33:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA18256 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18247 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09384 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([210.50.70.163]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:31:26 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Check Lists + Should you and could you stop surfing? Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:30:36 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01c10ace$74b3b680$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2001 12:31:26.0592 (UTC) FILETIME=[91A1B800:01C10ACE] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger wrote: - >1. What piece of today's paddle is likely to be the trickiest? What changes in >wind and current will make it worse? Suppose that stretch of water is really >nasty when we get to it. Are there alternatives? Is there a way to circumvent >the gnarly place?--------------------------- >-------------------------------------------- >4. What's my least-favorite paddling dilemma -- following seas, a surf landing, >or a long, rough crossing? What bugs others? G'Day, CHECK LISTS Daves response 1 and 4 got me wondering what check list might be used when going through navigation charts, tide and weather the night before a paddle. Or are the navigational aspects of trip assesment too complex for a check list to be adequate? Having been raised in the East End of London I need to learn to assess conditions quite formally as I've got no feel or intuition for sea conditions. Many people seem to have this intuition, especially ex surfers, the old ones who survived :~) SHOULD YOU AND COULD YOU STOP SURFING Talking of which we had some glorious surfing conditions last weekend, long rolling swell about 3 to 4 meters and stretching for miles. This is the first time I've experienced this and wondered is it dangerous to surf on such swell if it is breaking near cliffs several 100 meters away i.e once having started to surf down such a wave is it possible to stop in a controlled fashion? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 06:11:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29874 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29823 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03650 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07322 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B4DA2A6.A017CAD9_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:14:14 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 2 thought provoking pieces in Paddler Mag: No. 1,Dowd onJudgment References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107111304400.27269-100000_at_sky1.elj.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Edwin Johnson wrote: > >> Judgment is really something hard to teach. > > >I wonder if it can be taught, inasmuch as "judging" involves > >some higher-order cognitive functions that may be there for > >some folks and not for others. I paddle with a guy who is not > >reckless, per se, but his capacity for predicting the > >consequences of his choices is limited. If one can not foresee > > It may be a matter of semantics, but we are not actually teaching > judgment, but how to _make_ good judgments. As instructors we are > responsible for giving the tools to our students so that they can learn to > make good judgments. > > These tools are often scenarios from our own experiences and knowledge of > the subject, hence causes and effects. As an educator, I firmly believe that one can teach higher order cognitive functions, certainly to adults. Edwin points out that flying instructors have been providing students with the tools (thought processes) to make good judgments for a long time. We can do the same. In addition, we as instructors and experienced paddlers can do a lot by modeling good judgment. If necessary, we can be overt about it ("Gee, that tide is running fast. I need to thnk about this for a minute before I go out there..." or "That's a tight slot between the undercut rock and that strainer; I think I'll carry this one"). If experienced paddler consciously and overtly demonstrate not simply good judgment but the thinking processes that create it, a culture of good judgment is created within the club or paddling group. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 06:44:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10252 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10247 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25960 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 06:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id e.93.d0e0a7f (14378) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93.d0e0a7f.287f03bb_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:44:27 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Check Lists + Should you and could you stop surfing? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10520 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/12/2001 5:33:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au writes: > This is the > first time I've experienced this and wondered is it dangerous to surf on > such swell if it is breaking near cliffs several 100 meters away i.e once > having started to surf down such a wave is it possible to stop in a > controlled fashion? > The short answer is "no," you can't count on being able to reasonably stop. Of course the more complicated answer depends on what kind of boat you are in and your particular skill level. One of the quickest ways to stop a kayak is to capsize. But do you know what lurks underneath? Is capsizing a safe option? If you wet exit what will happen to your boat when it encounters the rocky cliffs? Will you be able to safely recover your boat in such a situation? This question kinda follows along the lines of the topic about being able to apply good judgment to the situation at hand. While surfing at the base of the cliffs may be possible --- is it prudent? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 09:05:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23795 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23789 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26566 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07960 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA22428 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21555 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web14208.mail.yahoo.com (web14208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA17690 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010712124339.13444.qmail_at_web14208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.148.140.52] by web14208.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:43:39 PDT Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 05:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Pawel Palkiewicz <ppalkiewicz_at_yahoo.com> To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi everybody, My name is Pawel and I used to be a member of this mailing list, before. I am planning a trip to Johnston Strait and Broughton Archipelago. I am looking for any information about good camping sites in that area. I will be traveling with four other people, and we will have three tents. I will be very thankful for any info. Thank you. Pawel *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 16:51:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17235 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17201 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10279 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17722 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA22595 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:58:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107122358.QAA22595_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Adventure Therapy kayaking X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> > Hope I've answered the questions. Yes. Thanks! I would love to read any trip reports on these outings. I think this would make for an interesting article in one of the paddling magazines. Maybe one of them out there will get a bug in their ear :-) Thanks again, Jim. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 12 19:22:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04032 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04027 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net (mail2.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19823; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d17.as0.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.166.18]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6D2O2m89530; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010712223025.4727eb04_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:30:25 To: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Adventure Therapy kayaking In-Reply-To: <200107122358.QAA22595_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:58 PM 7/12/01 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: >> From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> >> Hope I've answered the questions. > > >Yes. Thanks! I would love to read any trip reports on these outings. > >I think this would make for an interesting article in one of the >paddling magazines. Maybe one of them out there will get a bug in their >ear :-) There was an article similar to this in one of the Outside magazines online, I seem to recall, just fuzzily. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 03:00:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA20776 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20756 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucs.orst.edu (UCS.ORST.EDU [128.193.4.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05245 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucs.orst.edu (ppp01-001.NWS.ORST.EDU [128.193.88.1]) by ucs.orst.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA172777 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:09:01 -0700 From: "Richard G. Mitchell, Jr." <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Upon checking my dry suit recently (Kokatat basic with latex booties) I noticed the wrist gaskets seemed to be turned inside out. Upon inverting the sleeves the gaskets were found to be "rotted" away by what looked though obviously is not excessive heat. The latex was in places "melted" into a mass of hard material and elsewhere crumbled into flakes of hard brittle material. This decomposition continued until the junction with the cordura sleeve material where it stopped abruptly. There is no sign of deterioration on any other part of the sleeve material. What is happening? Some other factors to consider: The suit was last used in the fall, washed in fresh water and hung to dry and stored in a darkened room heated to approximately 68 degrees. The neck gasket and the booties are in excellent condition and show absolutely no cracks or signs of the catastrophic deterioration that took place at the wrists. I do not use any sort of DEET or other insect repellent. Most sun screen applications are on the neck, not my wrists. Kokatat commented that the symptoms were a common occurrence but expected the neck gasket to show the first signs of damage. I repeat, the neck gasket is in excellent shape, the wrist gaskets are deteriorated into nonexistence. One difference - the wrist gaskets were covered by the neoprene over-sleeves and thus possibly in an area that dried less quickly than the rest of the suit (the neck gasket on this model suit has no outer protective layer nor do the booties). Some photophobic, anaerobic microbe seems the most likely culprit but what "eats" latex? All advice appreciated. Rich Mitchell *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 06:23:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24587 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 06:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24582 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 06:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16102; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 06:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11686; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:59:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200107131259.IAA11686_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:19:04 -0400 To: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Adventure Therapy kayaking In-Reply-To: <200107122358.QAA22595_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:58 PM 7/12/01 -0700, you wrote: >Yes. Thanks! I would love to read any trip reports on these outings. > >I think this would make for an interesting article in one of the >paddling magazines. Maybe one of them out there will get a bug in their >ear :-) Paddler Magazine (June issue?) has a half page writeup on a group in Boulder Colorado called SOS that takes troubled youth snowboarding and kayaking. In the accompanying photo there were several whitewater kayaks in use by attendees. SOS has a site at http://www.sosoutreach.org but I could find no mention of the non-snowboarding portions of the program. I have a friend who runs an adventure program in Pennsylvania that takes the attendees on outings similar to those mentioned by James Tibensky. In the Pennsylvania case the youth are sent to the program by the courts. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 07:07:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06883 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06878 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12194 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA11858 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:42:35 -0400 Message-Id: <200107131342.JAA11858_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:01:56 -0400 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] MS Benefit Race 7/22 Cape Cod Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was asked by a friend to forward the following race announcement. If anyone wants to forward this or post it in other forums please do so. -- FOR THE BENEFIT OF MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS MS Benefit kayak race West Dennis, MA Cape Cod near Bass River Bridge on Route 28 Bass River at Sundancers Restaurant just east of the bridge Sunday July 22, 2001 registration 11:30 race 1:00 pm For information call Bruce at 508-240-6888 or Jim at 508-394-1600 Race classes are 18-35 , 35-50, 50 and over and two man and professionals As for distance: "At the moment it is about 4 miles in the river. I am going to try and suggest a longer for the double and pros. Perhaps up to Follins Pond. Probably 9-10 miles. Don't know yet." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 07:19:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10093 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10088 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18900 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10283 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22857 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01963 Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web14203.mail.yahoo.com (web14203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.145]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA22851 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010713053907.3018.qmail_at_web14203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.148.131.142] by web14203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:39:07 PDT Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:39:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Pawel Palkiewicz <ppalkiewicz_at_yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] BC coastal maps To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <01C10ABA.826163E0_at_139-142-113-41.dialup.islandnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net --- Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> wrote: > Without getting too commercial I publish a series of > sea kayaking maps for the coastal areas of British > Columbia Thanks Kirby, I found one of your maps at Map Town in Calgary it is eactly what I want Pawel Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 07:19:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10117 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10112 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18987 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip143.ast4.pacifier.com [66.43.9.143]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6DEJIM06238; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B4F0340.48489423_at_pacifier.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:18:40 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "Richard G. Mitchell, Jr." wrote: > > Upon checking my dry suit recently (Kokatat basic with latex > booties) I noticed the wrist gaskets seemed to be turned inside > out. Upon inverting the sleeves the gaskets were found to be > "rotted" away by what looked though obviously is not excessive > heat. The latex was in places "melted" into a mass of hard > material and elsewhere crumbled into flakes of hard brittle > material. This decomposition continued until the junction with > the cordura sleeve material where it stopped abruptly. There is > no sign of deterioration on any other part of the sleeve > material. What is happening? [snip] > Kokatat commented that the symptoms were a common occurrence but > expected the neck gasket to show the first signs of damage. I > repeat, the neck gasket is in excellent shape, the wrist gaskets > are deteriorated into nonexistence. [snip] Something similar occured to _one_ of the wrist seals on a PJ I owned, but not the other, but over a span of a couple weeks of closet-sitting, which was preceded by an overnight trip home in the bed of my PU. I suspect strongly some hydrocarbon material (oil, gasoline, cooking oil, etc.) somehow contaminated the seal. I bet that's what happened to Rich's seals. Everybody knows seals like fish oil, not motor oil <g>. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 15:00:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29197 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29191 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01330 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16315 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23293 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07180 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.147.1.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12671 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bklap (h00a0c5e2ab21.ne.mediaone.net [65.96.224.15]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6DKis802918 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b901c10bdc$abeed030$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> From: "Brian Kelly" <bkelly_at_mediaone.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak sites near Providence,RI Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:44:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi all! We are going down to see Kobe (the new Polar bear cub at the zoo) and we thought we would bring the kayaks. Any reccommended site in the Providence area? thanks Brian Kelly *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 13 17:07:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09095 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09090 Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail4.rdc1.on.home.com (femail4.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.91]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26667 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail4.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010714000628.FSIV11827.femail4.rdc1.on.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:06:28 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c10bf9$5e589370$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> <3B4F0340.48489423_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:10:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > preceded by an overnight trip home in the bed of my PU. I suspect strongly > some hydrocarbon material (oil, gasoline, cooking oil, etc.) somehow > contaminated the seal. Some sun screens contain petroleum gel, notably the waterproof ones. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 14 15:03:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24672 Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24655 Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25749 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip228.ast4.pacifier.com [66.43.9.228]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6EM1PM14178; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B50C10B.CB4E9347_at_pacifier.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:00:43 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] SOT for Fishing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My brother is interested in a SOT kayak for fishing off the coast of Southern California. He says he wants a rudder and some room for gear. Anybody got recommendations ... price ranges for used ones ... models/brands to avoid? Thanks. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 14 19:16:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12603 Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12596 Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:16:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Niilus_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29058 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Niilus_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.b7.10b2c684 (3982) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <b7.10b2c684.288256e3_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:16:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SOT for Fishing? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net (Paddlewise) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/14/2001 3:04:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes: > My brother is interested in a SOT kayak for fishing off the coast of Southern > California. He says he wants a rudder and some room for gear. > > Anybody got recommendations ... price ranges for used ones ... > models/brands to > avoid? > Try: http://www.socalkayakfishing.com/; and http://yakfishing.com/ Tony Niilus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 15 16:31:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11105 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11100 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22574 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26400 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23940 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16518 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m11.boston.juno.com (m11.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.74]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04074 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"Wgy8QeAtlcFd/if78lQ6iW28JMUKLjO+kVGQSOcH+JwAGQpjl0Va5g=="> Received: (from rickniemi_at_juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GAEYZHFN; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:07:57 EDT To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:09:15 -0700 Subject: [Paddlewise] New webring called "Kayak Sailing and More" Message-ID: <20010715.151231.-601621.5.rickniemi_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Richard A Niemi <rickniemi_at_juno.com> X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello All, For those of you interested in kayak sailing, sea kayaking, etc... I've created a new webring called "Kayak Sailing and More". The ring is made up of Kayak Sailing and Sea Kayak sites. It's purpose is to link together sites with similar purpose and interest. If your interested please visit the links below. Here is the link to the webring: http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=kayaksailingandm To become a member of this Ring, visit this URL: http://edit.webring.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/membercgi?ring=kayaksailingandm&add site Happy Paddling! Rick Niemi http://nirvana2000.netfirms.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 15 19:12:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02937 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02931 Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brahma.hudsonet.com ([209.3.76.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03490 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.3.76.53] (209-3-76-53k.hudsonet.com [209.3.76.53]) by brahma.hudsonet.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA10349 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <a05100303b77826587614_at_[209.3.76.53]> In-Reply-To: <00b901c10bdc$abeed030$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> References: <00b901c10bdc$abeed030$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:14:09 -0700 To: paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Joe Federici <fedo_at_hudsonet.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak sites near Providence,RI Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net RI has tones of good paddling. You should check out the RI kayaking club and see what paddles they are doing. They have a nice website. Also check out the The kayak center in Wickford. The coast around Wickford to the narrow river and across to Beaver tail and whale rock is very nice. JFF Hi all! We are going down to see Kobe (the new Polar bear cub at the zoo) and we thought we would bring the kayaks. Any reccommended site in the Providence area? thanks Brian Kelly *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 16 19:55:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01713 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01708 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26520 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MJAkayaker_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.d9.1766ad8b (17379) for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d9.1766ad8b.28850306_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:55:02 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Races To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10519 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Port Aransas, Tx parks director mentioned that they were trying to organize some kayak races to be held in conjunction with the activities at the 1st anniversary of the opening of the Lighthouse Lakes Kayak Trails. He said he was considering a 10 to 12 mile race and some shorter sprint races. He has never orgainized any kayak races so he is not sure of what special things he should be doing for kayak racing as compared to bike or running events. If any of you have some experience and would be willing to talk with him please send me your e-mail address or phone number. I know there are some official sanctioning bodies here in Texas for various forms of racing, but I do not how to reach them. I would appreciate any info on these organizations. Thanks for your help. Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 16 19:55:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01668 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01662 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pltdpop4.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop4.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26423 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 60674 invoked by alias); 17 Jul 2001 02:54:13 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 60645 invoked by uid 0); 17 Jul 2001 02:54:12 -0000 Received: from dialupo65.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (216.161.84.65) by ptldpop4.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 02:54:12 -0000 Message-ID: <002801c10e6e$030c1740$4154a1d8_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: "Richard G. Mitchell, Jr." <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu>, "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:10:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My 17 years of drysuit experiences lead me to believe that this is pretty typical latex behavior. It does look like some kind of chemical or viral attack, but truth of the matter is this just happens to seals. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to why some seals are heavily attacked and others seem immune. Over the years I have tried everything to preserve seals and washing the suit out often and applying 303 regularly seems to help but after a couple seasons it's generally time for new seals. Sometimes the seals will actually turn back into a gummy, gooey, liquid! Now that is weird. Steve Alder Creek Kayak and Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard G. Mitchell, Jr." <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:09 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. > Upon checking my dry suit recently (Kokatat basic with latex > booties) I noticed the wrist gaskets seemed to be turned inside > out. Upon inverting the sleeves the gaskets were found to be > "rotted" away by what looked though obviously is not excessive > heat. The latex was in places "melted" into a mass of hard > material and elsewhere crumbled into flakes of hard brittle > material. This decomposition continued until the junction with > the cordura sleeve material where it stopped abruptly. There is > no sign of deterioration on any other part of the sleeve > material. What is happening? > > Some other factors to consider: > > The suit was last used in the fall, washed in fresh water and > hung to dry and stored in a darkened room heated to approximately > 68 degrees. > > The neck gasket and the booties are in excellent condition and > show absolutely no cracks or signs of the catastrophic > deterioration that took place at the wrists. > > I do not use any sort of DEET or other insect repellent. Most > sun screen applications are on the neck, not my wrists. > > Kokatat commented that the symptoms were a common occurrence but > expected the neck gasket to show the first signs of damage. I > repeat, the neck gasket is in excellent shape, the wrist gaskets > are deteriorated into nonexistence. > > One difference - the wrist gaskets were covered by the neoprene > over-sleeves and thus possibly in an area that dried less quickly > than the rest of the suit (the neck gasket on this model suit has > no outer protective layer nor do the booties). Some photophobic, > anaerobic microbe seems the most likely culprit but what "eats" > latex? > > All advice appreciated. > > Rich Mitchell > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 16 21:36:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02568 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02563 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carthage.proaxis.com (carthage.proaxis.com [216.65.131.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27958 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 40b1201 (pd01-2.proaxis.net [206.163.140.66]) by carthage.proaxis.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6H4YhJ23630; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <025801c10e79$e0a00660$428ca3ce_at_40b1201> Reply-To: "obrien" <obrien_at_proaxis.com> From: "obrien" <obrien_at_proaxis.com> To: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107091044.f69Aiw896765_at_mail4.enter.net> <3B49BBA9.64095F26_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudders and Wrist Tendonitis Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:35:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Are you sure that this is tendonitis? Sounds like carpal tunnel syndrome. Numbness and tingling are classic neurolgical symptoms. In CTS the nerves in the wrist are constricted by the transverse carpal ligament resulting in diminished sensation, tingling, and pain. Treatment options include bracing the wrist in a neutral position, anti-inflammatories, cortosone injections which also may rule out CTS if ineffective, and surgery to relieve the constriction. Since anti-inflammatories work for both tendonitis and CTS, they may work for you. In my experience, they work far better if taken well ahead of the stress. I take Aleve on the drive to the ski area and have few problems. If I forget and take it after the first appearance of pain, I limp for four or five days.. Are you up for a day trip in the next two weeks? Bill *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 16 23:18:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03806 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03800 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00379 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08095 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24380 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02610 Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28027 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-2.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.2]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6H4ZKr21956 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:35:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3B53C087.BE5A5835_at_prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 23:35:19 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 7/27! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Second shark attack near Pensacola, FL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/071601/Local/ST001.shtml *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 02:53:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11676 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 02:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11605 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 02:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13058 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.95.214]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:52:38 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Should you and could you stop surfing Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:51:14 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c10ea6$054c21c0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jul 2001 09:52:39.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[371927C0:01C10EA6] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Scott wrote: - >The short answer is "no," you can't count on being able to reasonably >stop. Of course the more complicated answer depends on what kind of boat you >are in and your particular skill level. One of the quickest ways to stop a >kayak is to capsize. G'Day Scott & Paddlewise, Thanks for that information it was timely, as we've just heard from a very skilled kayaker who tried surfing on the same day. He saw that a section of beach had been washed away, tried everything he knew to stop including a roll and bailed out at the last minute before his boat bounced against rocks and concrete. Some repairs were needed but fortunately only to the boat. Being a bit of a wimp when it comes to surf I refrained, although we were a fair way from the cliffs. All the best, PeterO (Who has at last taken and passed his sea proficiency exam) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 05:28:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA27952 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27947 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:27:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.academicplanet.com (mail.academicplanet.com [209.245.216.197]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18828 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from academicplanet.com (dialup-209.245.196.90.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [209.245.196.90]) by mail.academicplanet.com (8.11.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6HCPfI18680 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:25:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3B544AB2.DF8C948E_at_academicplanet.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:24:50 -0700 From: Marilyn Kircus <mkircus_at_academicplanet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] fear References: <200107170436.VAA02639_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net If we really want to be honest, a lot of us paddle for the fear. Because beyond the fear is a euphoria beyond belief. I have both paddled white water and in the gulf where I felt lots of fear and then the euphoria. And paddling solo ups the risk, fear and euphoria. The best rush I ever got was coming off an 8 day solo paddle in Quetico where I was terrified that I would get lost or in over my head. It's real addictive and one of the reasons we often take on more than we can conformably handle. Marilyn > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ..... > > > > > -- > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 06:41:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21066 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21032 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:41:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04947 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22723; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:17:05 -0400 Message-Id: <200107171317.JAA22723_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:37 -0400 To: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak Races In-Reply-To: <d9.1766ad8b.28850306_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:55 PM 7/16/01 -0400, you wrote: > I know there are some official >sanctioning bodies here in Texas for various forms of racing, but I do not >how to reach them. I would appreciate any info on these organizations. Try starting with the Texas Canoe Racing Association: http://www.geocities.com/txpaddler/index.html I know the main page reads like the US Canoe Racing main page, but as you wander around it's _supposed_ to be the texas canoe racing page. Lee Deviney txpaddler_at_geocities.com appears to be well worth getting in touch with.... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 07:29:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04456 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04451 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10605.mail.yahoo.com (web10605.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.169]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04433 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010717142931.58366.qmail_at_web10605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.226.61] by web10605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:29:31 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:29:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak sites near Providence,RI To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Brian Kelly wrote: >We are going down to see Kobe (the >new Polar bear cub at the zoo) and >we thought we would bring the kayaks. Are you sure that's a good idea? Sorry, couldn't resist! ;) Have a great trip. Shawn Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 07:35:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07158 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07153 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nile.intac.com (root_at_nile.intac.com [198.6.114.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10223 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust173.tnt3.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.39.102.173]) by nile.intac.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ktb) with SMTP id KAA04673; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003a01c10ecd$6373c2e0$ad66273f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> To: <MJAkayaker_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107171317.JAA22723_at_grok.imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak Races Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:33:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > > I know there are some official > >sanctioning bodies here in Texas for various forms of racing, but I do not > >how to reach them. I would appreciate any info on these organizations. > > Try starting with the Texas Canoe Racing Association: > http://www.geocities.com/txpaddler/index.html > I know the main page reads like the US Canoe Racing main page, but as you wander > around it's _supposed_ to be the texas canoe racing page. > You can also try the American Canoe Association's website at www.acanet.org They do sanction races... Typically if you're not an ACA member there is a $5 surcharge which makes you an ACA member for a limited time. The main advantage of this is the insurance. The package also includes info about organizing the races, etc, and is downloadable. Regarding the nuts and bolts of the race itself, where I've presided over some races here in the Delaware Valley, it's mainly a matter of being sure the times are properly recorded and everyone had a fair start. For, say, a series of races down the river at 20, 10 and 5 miles, I carried One main stopwatch and a backup. Started off the first one with an arbitrary lineup on the watches, drove down to the second start point, got that one off and recorded the time I began them (which I usually did on an exact minute), then to the third.... Carried the watches to the finish line (same for all three) and waited.... read the watch as they crossed the line, recorded that then figured out who was in what category. They each had big numbers taped to the boats so we could read them. What the categories are would be up to you..... Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 13:05:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16731 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16726 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.149]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22655 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010717200458.DVUU606.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:04:58 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c10efc$4e335920$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> <002801c10e6e$030c1740$4154a1d8_at_oemcomputer> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:08:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> > My 17 years of drysuit experiences lead me to believe that this is pretty > typical latex behavior. It does look like some kind of chemical or viral > attack, but truth of the matter is this just happens to seals. There > doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to why some seals are > heavily attacked and others seem immune. Over the years I have tried > everything to preserve seals and washing the suit out often and applying 303 > regularly seems to help but after a couple seasons it's generally time for > new seals. Sometimes the seals will actually turn back into a gummy, gooey, > liquid! Now that is weird. One thing I've been wondering about for some time: I have a pair of rubbers (note to Brits: those things that cover my leather dress shoes in the rain) that are made of 100% natural latex. They come with a _lifetime_ guarentee from Totes (the folks that sell umbrollies). I have used them for at least 15 years and they are nearly as good as new. There is some obvious wear on the heel, but otherwise they're fine. I don't use anything like 303 on them, and they get all the abuse that walking on concrete in the rain can deliver. Now why is it that the rubber wrist and neck seals on drysuits/tops are a fragile as gossamer and have a lifespan measured in nanoseconds? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 14:22:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10638 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10633 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:21:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14306 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.7c.189c8556 (3965) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c.189c8556.2886065f_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:21:35 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club T-Shirts To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On July 21 there's going to be a multi-club picnic/paddle at John Lloyd Park in Dania Florida. Of the seven participating clubs...I belong to four...of which two have T-shirts...and members are encouraged to wear their T-shirts. I'm having a hard time deciding which shirt to wear...without appearing to choose allegiance to one club over the other....so, I've decided to really stir things up and wear my PADDLEWISE T-SHIRT! sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 15:21:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26615 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26531 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22816 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20363 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24775 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12409 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10405.mail.yahoo.com (web10405.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.97]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20189 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010717213030.60059.qmail_at_web10405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.51.138.131] by web10405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:30:30 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Irene Skrybailo <iskryb_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak sites near Providence,RI To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://home.att.net/~seayaks/. And say hi to the bear! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 18:28:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23751 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23729 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usermail0.netnitco.net (usermail0.netnitco.net [216.176.128.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00439 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epsrenne (PPPa9-ResaleGaryMetro4-3R7121.dialinx.net [4.4.242.230]) by usermail0.netnitco.net (8.11.4/8.10.1/052400) with SMTP id f6I1Pgj82099 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:25:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <006c01c10f28$e5ff3220$041e3004_at_epsrenne> From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> <002801c10e6e$030c1740$4154a1d8_at_oemcomputer> <002b01c10efc$4e335920$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:28:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I too have seen the variable deterioration of drysuit gaskets. Wonder if footware might offer a longer guarantee because: a) not worn next to body, thereby no contact with body oils, sunscreens, etc. b) only worn in the rain when the sun isn't shining, so UV degradation minimized c) thicker rubber - even if the surface layer degrades, there's more material - and the stiffer construction that prevents/minimizes rubber-to-rubber contact and the resultant 'welding' effect d) maybe the rubber is harvested from GMO trees? just guessing..... Erik Sprenne Michael Daly wrote: > One thing I've been wondering about for some time: I have a pair of rubbers > (note to Brits: those things that cover my leather dress shoes in the rain) that > are made of 100% natural latex. They come with a _lifetime_ guarentee from > Totes (the folks that sell umbrollies). I have used them for at least 15 years and > they are nearly as good as new. There is some obvious wear on the heel, but > otherwise they're fine. I don't use anything like 303 on them, and they get all the > abuse that walking on concrete in the rain can deliver. > > Now why is it that the rubber wrist and neck seals on drysuits/tops are a fragile > as gossamer and have a lifespan measured in nanoseconds? > From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> > > My 17 years of drysuit experiences lead me to believe that this is pretty > > typical latex behavior. It does look like some kind of chemical or viral > > attack, but truth of the matter is this just happens to seals. There > > doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason to why some seals are > > heavily attacked and others seem immune. Over the years I have tried > > everything to preserve seals and washing the suit out often and applying 303 > > regularly seems to help but after a couple seasons it's generally time for > > new seals. Sometimes the seals will actually turn back into a gummy, gooey, > > liquid! Now that is weird. > > > > Mike > > ***************************************************************** ********** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ***************************************************************** ********** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 21:47:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24258 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24253 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06547 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11089 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24877 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07922 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28535 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6I2ANf27100 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:10:23 -0700 Message-ID: <01c001c10f2f$173344c0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <20010717213030.60059.qmail_at_web10405.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] My first river day ;) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:09:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello again, I've been off the list for a couple of years while I did an MBA while teaching full time. It's good to keep busy, but not that busy! The MBA part is over now so I can get back to real life :) I missed reading Paddlewise posts with all the interesting adventures and opinions and information. My last adventure paddling was Nootka Island / Cook Channel / Boca del Inferno. One afternoon of that beautiful trip was as close as I want to get to Deep Trouble. Nothing much since, just a couple of local paddles, canoe and kayak, including a memorable high wind paddle one afternoon a year or so ago. Some sailing though :) But that's another list :) I just got back from the Central Oregon high desert and my first river excursion! I like camping and hiking in this area was camping with a friend. While we were in Bend, looking at kayaks, we signed up on impulse for a two day intro to river paddling. First day was getting used to the boats on a very calm stretch of I forget which river, and a pool rolling session in the pm. Closest I've come to rolling yet, after many years of trying with my Arluk! I'll nail this yet :) snicker Next day nine of us and two guides / instructors were off in "Stinky", the outfit's typical back-road van, obviously a deeply troubled but seemingly immortal vehicle. We put in at Warm Springs on the Deschutes River and took out at Trout River. An amazing day, temperature in the high 80s or 90s, intensely clear sky, the vertically striated cliffs and bluffs and scree and sage and juniper above and beside the river offering such pleasure to see and smell, birds and the little baby rapids offering their music. I paddled a conservative Necky Rip - conservative compared to some of the boats with the sort of spoon-like bows and peapod sterns - and was able to transfer sea bracing and eddyline experience to the river so with that and good luck did not swim. Those who did said it was actually not too cold. We went through a little bit of rapids, maybe class 1 1/2 ;) I have wanted to do this for years, so it was a day from my dreams and I want more :) Diane McNally Victoria, British Columbia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 17 21:49:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24480 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24475 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06914 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11150 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24885 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19363 Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:50:26 -0700 (PDT) From: volinjo_at_juno.com Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.73]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22963 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yTmoM4onTJyg4drQy4Wmdc0jQ+n4Z/gUTxRzdM1xst8zjWkaunERDw=="> Received: (from volinjo_at_juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GALMXW2H; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:50:18 EDT To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:49:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club T-Shirts Message-ID: <20010717.225019.-4165701.4.volinjo_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net You go girl! You should find out if Bill Leonhardt has any more available - some of the people at the picnic might want them when they see yours. Joan On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:21:35 EDT Gypsykayak_at_aol.com writes: > On July 21 there's going to be a multi-club picnic/paddle at John > Lloyd Park in Dania Florida. > Of the seven participating clubs...I belong to four...of which two > have T-shirts...and members are encouraged to wear their T-shirts. > I'm having a hard time deciding which shirt to wear...without > appearing to choose allegiance to one club over the other....so, I've decided to > really stir things up and wear my PADDLEWISE T-SHIRT! > > sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 08:44:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14455 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14450 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00162 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06569 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25065 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04891 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 04:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf10bis.bellsouth.net (mail110.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04531 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.115.142]) by imf10bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010718115429.CWLA16224.imf10bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:54:29 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:05:43 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <008e01c10f81$f8de4a80$93733dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <006c01c10f28$e5ff3220$041e3004_at_epsrenne> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Latex is subject to degradation by ozone in the air which can be from pollution, thunderstorms and especially from electrostatic air filters. I keep my dry top sealed in a plastic bag with 303 on the seals. I get to use it once or twice a year in Florida. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 09:02:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20367 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20357 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf14bis.bellsouth.net (mail114.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.54]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12510 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.115.142]) by imf14bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010718160321.MYZP19651.imf14bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:03:21 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'ralph diaz'" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> Cc: "'Paddlewise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:14:35 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <009d01c10fa4$bcea2800$93733dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <009901c10fa3$13b68860$c0d5d23f_at_rdiaz> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net February is too warm! I use it only in driving winter rain. Since winter I is usually the dry season.... > > January and/or February...that's Bob's idea of "once or twice > a year in Florida." :-) > > ralph diaz > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 09:16:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23889 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23884 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20669 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10988 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25092 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18396 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08396 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.85.199.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.85.199]) by hall.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00262; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009901c10fa3$13b68860$c0d5d23f_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com>, "'Paddlewise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <008e01c10f81$f8de4a80$93733dd0_at_bdenton> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:02:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net seals. > Latex is subject to degradation by ozone in the air which can be from > pollution, thunderstorms and especially from electrostatic air filters. > I keep my dry top sealed in a plastic bag with 303 on the seals. I get > to use it once or twice a year in Florida. > January and/or February...that's Bob's idea of "once or twice a year in Florida." :-) ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 09:19:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24092 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24085 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21074 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muphrid (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6IGIgS26670; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:18:42 -0400 From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: "'Diane McNally'" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] My first river day ;) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c10fa5$61a7ec60$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <01c001c10f2f$173344c0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane, Great to hear your story. I think that river is the best environment for learning how to feel comfortable in a sea kayak in rough water. My opinion is strong enough that the only class I teach nowadays is a crossover river lesson designed specifically for sea kayakers. My one bit of advice however is that don't be afraid to capsize and swim on the river (should you find yourself on the river again). I always say to beginners "If you are not swimming, then you are not learning". The river is a safe environment to push your skills, provided you have a good instructor who can properly manage the risks while you do so. Cheers, Kevin Whilden ps. I have noticed that people with some sea kayaking experience have great forward strokes (when they remember to use it) and usually a quite good brace. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Diane McNally Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 7:09 PM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] My first river day ;) <snip> I just got back from the Central Oregon high desert and my first river excursion! <snip> I paddled a conservative Necky Rip - conservative compared to some of the boats with the sort of spoon-like bows and peapod sterns - and was able to transfer sea bracing and eddyline experience to the river so with that and good luck did not swim. Those who did said it was actually not too cold. We went through a little bit of rapids, maybe class 1 1/2 ;) I have wanted to do this for years, so it was a day from my dreams and I want more :) Diane McNally Victoria, British Columbia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 10:43:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21466 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21460 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20434 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tmitchell98.nwlink.com (ip1.pm3-1.usw.isdn.nwlink.com [209.20.134.1]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22493 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010718103518.009fba50_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: mitchell/pop.nwlink.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:46:05 -0700 To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Thomas <mitchell_at_nwlink.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] My first river day ;) In-Reply-To: <003701c10fa5$61a7ec60$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> References: <01c001c10f2f$173344c0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have first hand experience with Kevin's point below. I took his x-over whitewater training class a short while back and I'm already noticing a significant impact on my seakayaking, especially my combat roll and feel for moving water and its effect on my boat. My personal goal for day #1 of the 3 day course was 'don't swim'. Of course this caused me to be uptight and I missed most of my rolls when I flipped (often). I came to the conclusion and Kevin emphatically agreed that this was a pretty terrible goal - very negative. The following day, I was more agressive in trying the new techniques and swam quite a few times in the AM. By the afternoon, I had relaxed, realizing that in the training environment swimming was no big deal and I hit every roll. The following week, on a more difficult run, I didn't swim at all... OT & BTW Kevin, I got hold of an Inazone232 which I like a lot. I ran the Sky last weekend (minus Boulder Drop) and got lots of rolling practice...;-> It was great fun (and a little scary) but realistically a little out of my range yet. Off to the coast for kayak surfing this week. Regards, Thomas At 09:19 AM 7/18/01 -0700, Kevin Whilden wrote: >Diane, >Great to hear your story. I think that river is the best environment for >learning how to feel comfortable in a sea kayak in rough water. My opinion >is strong enough that the only class I teach nowadays is a crossover river >lesson designed specifically for sea kayakers. My one bit of advice however >is that don't be afraid to capsize and swim on the river (should you find >yourself on the river again). I always say to beginners "If you are not >swimming, then you are not learning". The river is a safe environment to >push your skills, provided you have a good instructor who can properly >manage the risks while you do so. >Cheers, >Kevin Whilden > >ps. I have noticed that people with some sea kayaking experience have great >forward strokes (when they remember to use it) and usually a quite good >brace. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 11:58:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13565 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13560 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09339 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.12b.1975b63 (4242) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:57:21 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Help! I've fallen in love with Kia's 2002 Sedona mini-van (www.kia.com). It's similar to a Honda Odyssey. Problem is that it has a "body color roof rack." The sliding cross bars are about 2" wide" and the same color of the vehilce - light gold. IOW, the foam "clip-on" saddles that fit on other SUVs won't fit the wide bars. I currently have a Yakima set-up on my 95 Honda Accord Wagon, but round bars slip. Plus racks on top of factory-installed racks won't look that great. Does anybody have that set-up? I had installed the www.prorac.com racks on my VW EuroVan that I sold on Saturday. However, I kept the Thule saddles because I love the way they adjust to different hull shapes without having to tighten/loosen any screws. I was wondering if maybe a stacker system would work OK. Any suggestions? sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 13:02:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03575 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03535 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.149]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21833 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010718200041.UXXE2711.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:00:41 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c10fc4$e0100f00$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B4EC8BD.EE5CBED5_at_ucs.orst.edu> <002801c10e6e$030c1740$4154a1d8_at_oemcomputer> <002b01c10efc$4e335920$c4bf7018_at_meatball> <006c01c10f28$e5ff3220$041e3004_at_epsrenne> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rotten" dry suit wrist seals. Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:04:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> > I too have seen the variable deterioration of drysuit gaskets. > > Wonder if footware might offer a longer guarantee because: > a) not worn next to body, thereby no contact with body oils, > sunscreens, etc. Body oils I wouldn't suspect, but I'm not a chemist. Certainly the others are potential culprits > b) only worn in the rain when the sun isn't shining, so UV > degradation minimized It seems like about half of the drysuit models out there have the seals covered by extensions of the sleeves and collars. Is the problem more common in the exposed models? > c) thicker rubber - even if the surface layer degrades, there's > more material - and the stiffer construction that These are pretty thin - not even twice the thickness of the seals on my drysuit, except under the heel where they are still fairly thin. I fully expected them to wear through the heels by now, but they are minimally worn out! I guess the point I find interesting about the rubbers is that they show _no_ sign of deterioration - not even along the thin edges. There are very thin bits where the mold used to make them separates. These are in "as new" condition. They get _no_ care - only abuse! Why on earth should there by such a marked difference in the strength and endurance of seals and rubbers. Maybe the problem is that drysuit seals are not pure rubber but a synthetic that just doesn't cut it. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 13:06:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05063 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05058 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26044 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01923 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B55ED23.FE80DCE1_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:10:11 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? References: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > Help! I've fallen in love with Kia's 2002 Sedona mini-van (www.kia.com). It's > similar to a Honda Odyssey. > > Problem is that it has a "body color roof rack." The sliding cross bars are > about 2" wide" and the same color of the vehilce - light gold. IOW, the > foam "clip-on" saddles that fit on other SUVs won't fit the wide bars. > They make those foam clip-ons with variously shaped holes. Mine are round, but I have also seen them with an elongated oval hole that looks like it was designed for factory rack bars. Now if I could only remember where I've seen them. REI? Coastal Expeditions? NOC? One of those. If you want to use your saddles, Yakima Mighty Mounts come in shapes for factory bars, although I don't know if they fit Kia in particular. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 13:44:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17122 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17116 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cae.wisc.edu (galaga.cae.wisc.edu [144.92.240.30]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22227 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coop (admin178.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.178.136]) by cae.wisc.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA00561 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:44:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010718154209.00a513a0_at_cae.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mastalsk_at_cae.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:44:32 -0500 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Mark Mastalski <mastalski_at_engr.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? In-Reply-To: <3B55ED23.FE80DCE1_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> References: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Winde Sports makes terrific foam saddles with a cut-out which fits well on the wider style of factory luggage racks. I'm not sure of a website for them, but Rutabaga in Madison, WI stocks and sells 'em. Mark Mastalski >They make those foam clip-ons with variously shaped holes. Mine are >round, but I have also seen them with an elongated oval hole that looks >like it was designed for factory rack bars. Now if I could only remember >where I've seen them. REI? Coastal Expeditions? NOC? One of those. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 14:39:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02776 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02770 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:38:05 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26355 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.a7.10f7f0c5 (15866); Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web47.aolmail.aol.com (web47.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.8]) by air-id06.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID65-0718173745; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:37:45 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:37:45 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <a7.10f7f0c5.28875ba9_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sandy, God is punishing you for selling a VW to buy a KIA. H/She probably wants you to give up kayaking as a penance. However, you noted, "I currently have a Yakima set-up on my 95 Honda Accord Wagon, but round bars slip." On their own, round bars, not well torqued, can slip. But round bars with small pieces of sheetrock sanding screen --- looks like window screen --- set between the wannabe-rotator surfaces keep everything nice and tight. I, too, have seen a lot of foam pads that are now formed for wider "aero" bars. All over, actually. Just make sure they don't slide on that nice, color-coordinated rack. Maybe you just need to wrap the bars in duct tape first. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 15:18:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14755 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14750 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23337 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04718 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25270 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04649 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24950 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id NAA11904; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010718154723.01c6fe10_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:03:21 -0400 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 02:57 PM 7/18/2001 -0400, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: >...Problem is that it has a "body color roof rack." The sliding cross bars >are >about 2" wide" and the same color of the vehilce - light gold. IOW, the >foam "clip-on" saddles that fit on other SUVs won't fit the wide bars. > >I currently have a Yakima set-up ... On my minivan (another make/model) I used a Yakima rack system. When I got my gas-guzzling SUV, I looked at adapting the Yakima system to the factory roof rack; or buying new Yakima cradles to fit the factory rack; or whatever. I settled on the cheapest solution one could imagine. I wrapped the roof rack bars with 1/2 inch wool carpet pad, a sturdy all-weather fabric. (It was left over by carpet installers at my home. Recycle!) I fastened it with large tie-wraps (tm). I just set my Pygmy Coho on top of the padded factory rack bars and strap it down fore and aft of the cockpit. People have commented several times that it looks like it will slip but it does not budge a millimeter. I no longer see any value in fancy, expensive kayak cradles and they sit unused in my basement. Does a fancy new truck with all the bells and whistles look funny with a wrap of recycled carpet pad on the roof rack? Maybe. YMMV. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 17:01:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16691 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16651 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02924 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19783 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25306 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03381 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from empowering.com (administrator_at_ns2.empowering.com [216.91.174.232]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04120 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dell (24.217.145.199) by empowering.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0.2) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:19:58 -0500 Message-ID: <005301c10fe0$54d63560$c791d918_at_dell> From: "WhiteRabbit" <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010718154723.01c6fe10_at_diablo.cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:21:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anyone tried wrapping the factory cross pieces with the rolls of 3/8 inch foam pipe insulation? I need to transport my kayak on a van which has the factory rack. Since this is a one time thing I need something secure and cheap. I might also consider the carpet trick. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I don't give a damn for a man who can spell a word only one way. Mark Twain WhiteRabbit - ICQ#111665477 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 18 17:59:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03357 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03352 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09701 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c1297934a ([24.17.250.176]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010719005913.RMNS3814.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_c1297934a> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:59:13 -0700 Message-ID: <00f601c10fee$c7667be0$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> Reply-To: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> From: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:04:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On our Chrysler Town & Country I use el cheapo system. Plastic yak lies right on factory bars for short runs, tied down with straps (twisted for silence) and redundant ropes/strap in the middle, sometimes a bow bumper tie. If you paddle in sandy surf, always use the foam saddles to avoid abrasion of your factory bars by trapped sand. For longer runs I use styrofoam saddles that are held to the roof by the pressure/weight of the yak, with additional bow and sometimes stern bumper ties (in addition to redundant ropes). Fiberglass yak is similar, except I always use styrofoam saddles. Roof loading is positioned via old cruddy blanket. I have found this approach very secure in long trips, summer/winter, strong winds, etc. I thought about a Thule rack, couldn't really justify the additional cost or hassle in light of above, and ruled it out when I doubted the racked van would fit inside my garage. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 00:09:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25180 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25175 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25964 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14235 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25413 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18830 Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au ([203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12919 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex1.amsa.gov.au (cbrex1.amsa.gov.au.253.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.253.17] (may be forged)) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA07883; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:05:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex1.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:08:12 +1000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:08:11 +1000 Message-ID: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D2BFEF6_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Thread-Index: AcEQEDzzShhL3EOdRjKgtzl/eskChAAACktg From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: "Gerald Hawkins" <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>, <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com> Cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2001 05:08:12.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF27D5A0:01C11010] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id WAA18856 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net That sounds a bit like my roof rack. I just have the standard roof racks with a piece of timber for each rack with two Vs cut into it (to carry two kayaks) and have put some foam on with DUC tape. The V is roughly the shape of the keel and this works a treat though it dosn't look too fancy David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 05:01:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA25114 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25025 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf14bis.bellsouth.net (mail114.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.54]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23587 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.116.105]) by imf14bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010719120142.DCVB13156.imf14bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:01:42 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:13:48 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000001c1104c$443c5c90$69743dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <00f601c10fee$c7667be0$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have used the Yakima factory rack adaptors on my 99 Dodge van since new and have been completely happy with them. The towers fit perfectly and I haven't had to touch tem since installed. I use 2 Hully rollers in the rear and 2 saddles in the front. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 05:44:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08139 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08134 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21074 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28286; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:20:04 -0400 Message-Id: <200107191220.IAA28286_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:39:49 -0400 To: "WhiteRabbit" <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? In-Reply-To: <005301c10fe0$54d63560$c791d918_at_dell> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010718154723.01c6fe10_at_diablo.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 06:21 PM 7/18/01 -0500, WhiteRabbit wrote: >Has anyone tried wrapping the factory cross pieces with the rolls of 3/8 >inch foam pipe insulation? I need to transport my kayak on a van which has >the factory rack. Since this is a one time thing I need something secure >and cheap. The 3/8" foam doesn't work on the wider supports on our Sienna minivan. The foam gunwale racks for a canoe do work though. Basically forming a home made V. My surf ski travels better on a simple foam pad than in Thule saddles so I regularly cartop that with one canoe gunwale mount on the front rack one on the rear. The slot for the gunwale goes over the rack and the side that is supposed to go against the car goes against the boat. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 07:12:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05216 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05211 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:11:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14129 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.e2.17bff5c1 (3974); Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e2.17bff5c1.2888449e_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:11:42 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? To: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-18 17:42:44 EDT, JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com writes: << Sandy, God is punishing you for selling a VW to buy a KIA. H/She probably wants you to give up kayaking as a penance. >> Jack, " the Sedona will be covered by the new Kia 10 year/ 100,000 Mile Warranty Program that offers unprecedented consumer protection. Included in the package are a 10-year or 100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty, a five-year or 60,000-mile limited basic warranty and a five-year or 100,0000 mile anti-perforation warranty. A five-year/unlimited mileage roadside assistance plan is also part of the comprehensive coverage program. " I'll take the punishment....you have no idea just how expensive the EuroVan parts and labor ($72/hour) are or how many things are starting to go wrong at only 64K miles! sandy *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 07:48:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14830 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14825 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05536 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.92.17a4f617 (3974) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:47:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <92.17a4f617.28884d18_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:47:52 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-19 08:06:50 EDT, you write: << I have used the Yakima factory rack adaptors on my 99 Dodge van since new and have been completely happy with them. >> I called Yakima but since this a 2002 model they haven't got any specs nor have they had a chance to do all their stress testing....in fact, they haven't even finished with 2001s! sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 08:36:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00361 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00355 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07655 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.31.17d85f8b (4412) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <31.17d85f8b.28885875_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:36:21 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers? To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Now that I'm contemplating a new vehicle (I really prefer ones that come with a few scratches!), I need more advice. After a recent paddle, I was amazed to see a fellow put his boat over a couple of saw horses and hose it down with a sprayer before loading it. He said it was to keep salt water off the roof. I thought it was a bit of overkill....until I asked another friend how come the top of his SUV is rusted. I was wondering if one of those plastic lawn sprayers would work - this guy had a fairly big, side-ways, barrel-shaped drum. Can't remember the brand - Ortho something? but they're clear/white with a green top. I imagine that (like the sprayer I bought to weatherproof my deck) you pump it a few times to build up pressure. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 08:43:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03130 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03125 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf08bis.bellsouth.net (mail008.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.28]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13414 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.116.105]) by imf08bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010719154404.IDMQ29427.imf08bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:44:04 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers? Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:56:09 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <001101c1106b$5428a720$69743dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <31.17d85f8b.28885875_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Most putins have a source of fresh water. It may be in an awkward place but usually you can bring the mountain to Mohammed. I always take a short garden hose with sprayer and a small bucket and with my bailing sponge mange to get most of the salt water rinsed off. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 09:20:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13350 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13342 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04011 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26172 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25650 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20553 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16929 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip96.ast7.pacifier.com [66.43.11.96]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6JF2FM23480; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B56F644.331DFCFB_at_pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:01:25 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] TR: Sand Island, Mouth of the Columbia River, OR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Haide and his 12-year-old son Matt paddled their snappy-lookin' Folbot Super around Sand Island at the mouth of the Columbia River yesterday. I was a tag-along, and much gratified to be there. Mild drizzle (Oregon sunshine) gave way gradually to _real_ sunshine over our paddle, which began at the ramp at Ft. Canby State Park. Dodging a couple CG vessels engaged in drills, we scuttled down the channel to the main river, "waked" now and then by the many salmon fishers and the occasional commercial vessel. As we cleared Jetty A (base of the river "bar"), the River was in full flood, so we wended our way upriver along the S side of Sand Island. The island is a relict of Oregon almost inset in a hook of land at the extreme SW tip of Washington, and is separated from the rest of Oregon by a mile and a half-wide waterway. This strange arrangement came about as Sand Island moved, in response to the action of the jetties, northward, pushing the old "North Channel" toward the WA shore and taking the OR/WA border with it. Nowadays, the old "South Channel" is the only viable channel for shipping. In days gone past, the shoreline was a hot spot for horse seining for salmon, but there were no horses or seine nets around on this day. Terns smacked the water in search of smolts, brown pelicans floated overhead, and a forest of murres dove around us in search of bait fish below. Small swells bounced ashore, with John and Matt well outside. I got too smart for my britches and was wetted by a larger than average one, because I was paddling too close to the break line. Guess that's what paddle jackets are for! Eventually we rounded the last pile dike on the upstream end, paddling back towards the ocean so the flood current did not trap us against the pilings. Ashore, binoculars revealed an enormous cormorant nesting colony on the next island east. We dawdled and ate, basking in the sun (what do you call the first sunny day after two days of rain in Oregon? Monday!). Back in the boats and off with the heavy clothing as we paddled shallows and skimmed by the shore to the northwest, eventually rounding the N end of the island. Enroute, there was an old winch on a barge, a memory of the cable ferry that relayed supplies to the island, and salmon to the Washington shoreline. At the ramp, lots of folks were curious about John's Super, and one older man was amazed that it could be sailed. A great day. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 09:26:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16284 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16278 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:26:32 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10092 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.ac.17f4c6a1 (4444) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <ac.17f4c6a1.28886427_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:26:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers? To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/19/2001 8:37:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com writes: > After a recent paddle, I was amazed to see a fellow put his boat over a > couple of saw horses and hose it down with a sprayer before loading it. He > said it was to keep salt water off the roof. > > I thought it was a bit of overkill....until I asked another friend how come > the top of his SUV is rusted. > I destroyed a Toyota 4-Runner before I figured out about keeping the salt off of my car. These days I simply carry a two and half gallon jug of water with me and quickly rinse my boat off before I put it on my car. Believe me, it's worth the small amount of effort. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 11:51:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07062 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07020 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16466 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20376 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25729 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22751 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22742 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([65.67.2.69]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with SMTP id <0GGQ008AQBOCMY_at_mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:41:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:41:54 -0700 From: "Robert C. Cline" <rccline_at_swbell.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] NEWSWIRE: OUTFITTER BILL INTRODUCED IN HOUSE To: PaddleWise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-id: <JLEDKGNLOJGKHNPGADJPKEMLCBAA.rccline_at_swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I just received this from a white water kayak newsboard. -----Original Message----- To: bcwc-l_at_yahoogroups.com Subject: [bcwc-l] NEWSWIRE: OUTFITTER BILL INTRODUCED IN HOUSE Congress won't know what you want unless you tell them. Trust me, the outfitters will via their lobbyists. Scott </> >>>gcpba NEWSWIRE OUTFITTER BILL INTRODUCED IN HOUSE July 16, 2001 For the fourth year in a row, legislation known as the Outfitters Policy Act has been introduced in the Senate. This legislation, Senate Bill 978, was introduced May 25, 2001 by Senator Larry Craig (R-ID). This year, for the first time, the bill has now been introduced in the House, HR. 2386, by Utah Representative Jim Hansen. The S. 978/HR. 2386 bill would grant commercial outfitters and patrons a preference over other user groups to visit those public lands managed by the United States Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, and Bureau of Reclamation. It would turn the privilege of a federal recreational use permit into a form of legal property right that the outfitters could trade or sell or hand down from one generation to the next. It would automatically renew current commercial permits even when outfitters performed in a substandard fashion or when the public, or even new outfitters, sought permits to enter the nation's most popular and heavily used areas. The bill would be detrimental to the general public who wants to access federal land without an outfitter. The bill could also reduce or eliminate outings by non-profit civic, religious, children's, and environmental education groups in our nation's most popular recreation areas. Even volunteer-led outings could be reduced or eliminated. A single sentence of meager and vague language addresses the rights of 'non-outfitted visitors.' The bill would: o Burden federal land managers to guarantee "reasonable opportunity" for successful business ventures to commercial outfitters and guides using public lands, thus granting outfitters potentially greater access to federal lands than the public; o "Grandfather" commercial outfitter use in areas where high recreational demand mandates restrictions on public recreation access -- thereby creating disproportionate use of scarce public resources by a select group; o Elevate commercial outfitter permits to a legal status greater than other types of federal permits, allowing permits to be transferred or sold, and restricting the ability of public officials to modify, enforce or revoke permits So, what can you do? Write your Senator or Representative to oppose the Outfitter legislation that is before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee and the House Resources Committee. Explain in your own words (and on your organization's letterhead if possible) how a bill which gives one for-profit user group new privileges could disadvantage you or your organization. If you can, please send a copy of your letter to Senate Committee Chairman Jeff Bingaman, House Committee Chairman Hansen and House ranking House Committee democrat Nick Rahall. Think of this letter as part of your permit application. Do you want to go boating? If you do, better write this letter! You can look up these bills at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:s.00978: and http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.02386: The mailing address for Senators is: The Honorable ___________ United States Senate Washington, DC 20510 The mailing address for Representatives is: The Honorable ___________ United States House of Representatives Washington, DC 20515 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ gcpba NEWSWIRE is a FREE service to the boating community from the Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association, paid for by our really dedicated members. *You* can be a member! Check out http://www.gcpba.org Send your e-mail address to gcpba_at_gcpba.org and we'll add you to the list of NEWSWIRE recipients, tell us to remove you and consider it done. You can join the GCPBA chat group for free by sending a blank email to gcpba-subscribe_at_yahoogroups.com. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ga *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 13:52:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14556 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14548 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:49:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Blankibr_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08168 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Blankibr_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.3e.e9dd44b (4596) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e.e9dd44b.2888a1e9_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:49:45 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaks Stolen from near Annapolis MD To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Please keep an eye out for the following two stolen boats: Dagger Baja blue/green DAQ60717D000 Dagger Savannah red DAQ60524D000 These were stolen from a church camp. I am offering a $50 reward out of my own pocket for information leading to their recovery. Prior to this, I don't think I recorded the serial number of my personal boats. Have you? Brian Blankinship blankibr_at_aol.com 410 867-1051 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 13:59:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18129 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18124 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14990 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07869 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25891 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:07:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107192107.OAA25891_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaks Stolen from near Annapolis MD X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Blankibr_at_aol.com > Please keep an eye out for the following two stolen boats: > Dagger Baja blue/green DAQ60717D000 > Dagger Savannah red DAQ60524D000 <snip> > Prior to this, I don't think I recorded the serial number of my personal > boats. Have you? On my sales slip. Do you have any photos? From what area were these boats stolen? Location could be helpful. Also, when? > Brian Blankinship > blankibr_at_aol.com > 410 867-1051 Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 19 14:04:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20835 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20829 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20473 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09144 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25909 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:11:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107192111.OAA25909_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaks Stolen from near Annapolis MD X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From what area were these > boats stolen? Location could be helpful. Also, when? ooops, I just saw the location in the subject header which was hidden in my incoming mail list. Sorry 8-} Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 20 08:53:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06138 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06133 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05288 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07277 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26197 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07113 Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root_at_proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07340 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WalkerLawFirm.com (mcwalker.vip.best.com [206.184.161.27]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id XAA11821 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 23:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B57C8DE.B6AD1662_at_WalkerLawFirm.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:59:59 -0700 From: Michael Casey Walker <Walker_at_WalkerLawFirm.com> Reply-To: Walker_at_WalkerLawFirm.com Organization: Walker Law Firm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Little Chebeague/MITA NAWT conference? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am planning to go to the Maine Island Trail / North American Water Trails Conference September 7-9, visiting from San Francisco. Our organization, Bay Access, would like to establish a San Francisco Bay Water Trail. I understand there is some possible island camping near the conference site in South Portland, and my research indicates that Little Chebeague is the most convenient. Can anyone help me with the logistics of camping on this island? What are the put in options? Do I need any permit or reservation? Where on the island is the camp site? Can I get there by taking the ferry to Great Chebeague? What are the area waters like? Any Paddlewisers going to the conference? Got any tips for me? Casey Walker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 20 10:12:00 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00224 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00182 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27419 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19856 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26242 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:19:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107201719.KAA26242_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Forwarding PaddleWise messages X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi folks, I was just informed that a PaddleWise post was forwarded outside PaddleWise without the author's permission. Not only is this a violation of list policy, it is inconsiderate of the author's rights. Do NOT forward PaddleWise messages without the author's permission. It's simple enough to ask permission as well as the right thing to do. Please show respect for those that contribute to this list by not violating their rights and this policy. Disregarding this policy can mean being booted from PaddleWise. Everyone's cooperation regarding this policy is appreciated not only by me but especially by those that generously contribute to this list. We owe them that respect. Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 20 10:13:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00514 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00509 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29896 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19958 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26253 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21034 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 04:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web12103.mail.yahoo.com (web12103.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA03572 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 04:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010720114955.39180.qmail_at_web12103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.8.1.15] by web12103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 04:49:55 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 04:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Mick Baker <mick_baker_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaks Stolen from near Annapolis MD To: Blankibr_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <3e.e9dd44b.2888a1e9_at_aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net --- Blankibr_at_aol.com wrote: > Please keep an eye out for the following two stolen boats: > Dagger Baja blue/green DAQ60717D000 > Dagger Savannah red DAQ60524D000 > Here are some sites that list stolen kayaks. You might list them there. http://www.marinerkayaks.com/mkhtml/stolendb.htm#Lost%20and%20Stolen%20Sea%20Kayaks http://itsbeenstolen.com/webring/lost_stolen_kayak.asp Tips from John Kuntz on stolen kayaks: 4/22/96/10:54:18 How not to buy a stolen kayak: Go to the sellers home to buy the kayak. Never buy a kayak from someone who wants to meet you in a parking lot or other non descriptive location. If the price is way below market or seems too good to be true, it is, and it's probably stolen. Get the model, colors, and serial number of the kayak. If the owner cannot produce these then they may be setting you up by stealing the boat of your choice for you. Check the serial number with the local police, this home page, the manufactuere, and the local dealer. This alone may not be enough as the boat could of been stolen in another part of the country. If you are suspicious of a person, an ad, or the price sounds to good to be true, report it. 4/22/96/10:47:52 What happens if you buy a stolen kayak?: Because possession of stolen property worth more than $250 is a felony, whether you know it is stolen or not, a stolen kayak makes you a victim just like the real owner. If you bought a kayak you suspect may have been stolen, (1) call the police, (2) call the local dealer(there may be a reward), (3) call the manufacturer, (4) DO NOT RESELL IT! Selling stolen property is a bigger crime then buying it. 4/22/96/10:43:40 How to avoid becoming a victim: If you live near the water, make sure your kayaks are inside, out of sight, and locked up. If you must store the kayak outside, remove anything you can to make the kayak harder to sell. If your kayak is stolen, it may show up for replacement parts at a dealer. Call you nearest dealer to report the theft. Often your theft is not unique as a kayak theft ring may be working your area to steal and deliver kayaks to unsuspecting clients. Be alert to any solo paddlers in your area at night. The thief may paddle another watercraft, such as a sailboard, near the kayak and either tow yours away or temporary leave their craft until it can be picked up later. Good luck finding the thief. Mick Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 20 10:34:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06790 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06785 Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14336 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.85.243.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.85.243]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA01626; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c11142$86b977a0$f355f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <Walker_at_WalkerLawFirm.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B57C8DE.B6AD1662_at_WalkerLawFirm.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Little Chebeague/MITA NAWT conference? Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:36:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I will be there as a speaker on a panel discussing urban trails and also will do a workshop on folding kayaks (conference organizers thought it would be an interesting idea to look at a foldable as a water trail boat; portability, one-way trips without need for shuttles, etc.). I haven't given a thought as to where to stay but I may wind up going with my wife to then visit Maine friends before or after. ralph diaz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Casey Walker" <Walker_at_WalkerLawFirm.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:59 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Little Chebeague/MITA NAWT conference? > I am planning to go to the Maine Island Trail / North American Water > Trails Conference September 7-9, visiting from San Francisco. Our > organization, Bay Access, would like to establish a San Francisco Bay > Water Trail. > > I understand there is some possible island camping near the conference > site in South Portland, and my research indicates that Little Chebeague > is the most convenient. Can anyone help me with the logistics of > camping on this island? What are the put in options? Do I need any > permit or reservation? Where on the island is the camp site? Can I get > there by taking the ferry to Great Chebeague? What are the area waters > like? > > Any Paddlewisers going to the conference? Got any tips for me? > > Casey Walker > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 17:08:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20788 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20783 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15768 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default ([24.6.217.67]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010722000633.QWAN28228.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_Default> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:06:33 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c11241$600ca460$43d90618_at_vncvr1.wa.home.com> From: "Michael Orchard" <mspadorchard_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107190059.RAA03375_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Suggestions for a handheld marine radio battery source? Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:00:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have an Icom IC-M15 handheld water resistant marine radio...my problem is that the battery needs replacing and the icom company really gouges customers on batteries...they want $139.00 for the 900 ma battery, and 159.00 for the 1200 ma battery. A secondary supplier should be able to sell this battery for about $50.00. For about that much I can get a handheld radio that takes a nicad battery or an alkaline battery pack for not much more than that .... In my experience icom charges terribly high prices for batteries (I am also an amateur radio operator...but not all that active in it)....secondary suppliers sell batteries for icom ham radios for about 1/3 the price of icoms, and frankly the cheaper one I have purchased are actually better than icom's. Soooo.... 1. Any suggestions for a secondary supplier of a battery to fit that radio...I have not yet found one for this radio. 2. Any suggestion for a good handheld marine band radio that takes alkaline batteries, and a nicad or better rechargeable battery.... Features desired are: as water proof as possible, easy to see screen...ie big letters (i wear reading glasses, but not when paddling, durability, 5 watt output, alert functions would be nice...ie for bad weather elerts, if it floats that would be ideal.....but I don't think I have seen any "floaters". I bought this radio new on a sale, at about half its usual selling price..and it is an ok product.....except for this one problem with batteries. Thanks for you suggestions... Michael Orchard Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 18:33:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17709 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17701 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f157.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.157]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16742 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 18:33:11 -0700 Received: from 4.4.165.113 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 01:33:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.4.165.113] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Apostle Island Trip Report Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:33:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F157oYAPNXRPmcarcR400000d35_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2001 01:33:11.0069 (UTC) FILETIME=[4498ACD0:01C1124E] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Apostle Island Trip Report 7/9-18/01 Corpus Christi to Apostle Islands and back 5 paddlers: Ken (Corpus Christi, TX), Marland, John and Jim (Austin, TX), and Vlad (New Jersey) in 5 sea kayaks (Current Design Solstice, Dagger Sitka, Dagger Meridian, and two Romney Explorers) 26 trip pictures at http://community.webshots.com/user/johnsonkw1 The Apostle Islands was my first kayaking trip 15 years ago. It was one of the most beautiful paddling locations I have ever paddled, and I wanted to do the trip again to refresh my memory and take pictures this time. Marland did a masterful job handling all the trip research, made all the reservations, and performed the task of Trip Leader. John owns Austin Outdoor Gear and Guidance Rentals and Sales, probably the largest kayak dealer west of the Mississippi, and with Marland and Jim working part time at the shop, I was in awe of what well equipped kayakers bring on trips like this! I drove from Corpus Christi, leaving at 6pm Monday 7/9, arriving at Little Sand Bay at 3pm Tuesday 7/10, driving straight through the night to avoid as much of the city and construction traffic as possible. Met everyone else and camped at Little Sand Bay Campground that night, using Wednesday 7/11 to paddle about 10 miles from Meyers Beach north to the Sea Caves and back. Weather was warm (70's to 80's) and wind and waves were mild (under 10-15 mph) as was the case for the whole week. One more night at Little Sand Bay Campground, and then we packed up the boats for 5 nights in the Apostle Islands, leaving early Thursday morning, 7/12. Paddled along the sea cliffs on the eastern shore of Sand Island, out to the lighthouse on the north point, and then over to York Island (Campsite #2) for the evening (about 8.5 miles). Beautiful campsite, nestled under beautiful big trees just back from the beach. There are bears swimming from island to island so we carefully hung our food in the trees. Great sunsets! Truely a wilderness setting, with only two other campsites on the island. Friday morning, 7/13, we paddled east to Raspberry Island, exploring the cliffs and landing at the beach to hike to the lighthouse. Two other sailboats were anchored there, one a one month cruise from Cleveland. Then we paddled around Oak Island and up to South Twin Island staying at Campsite #1. Today's 13 mile paddle was against a stiff 15 mph NW wind and chop. Another beautiful campsite right on the water, with a repeat killer sunset. Survived Friday the 13th with a peaceful night and no bears. Saturday July 14 paddled around Rocky Island out to Devils Island, the northernmost island in the Apostles to explore the sea caves on the east coast and the lighthouse on the north point. Lighhouse park ranger, a fellow Texan who spends his summers there, gave us a very informative tour. This is where the water gets the roughest, with storms out of the NE kicking up 12 to 40 foot waves at times. Caves were spectacular, and provided "other-world" paddling experiences as we worked our way back into them, sometimes in total dark. Back to South Twin island for another night at the same campsite. After dinner paddled around North Twin Island; sun doesn't set until well after 9pm. Water was covered with moths, and beaches had lines of dead moths washing up providing nourishment for a growing fly population. We thought they were bad until the Park Ranger told us that the Sunday before we arrived, everyone on Raspberry was totally covered in flies like bees cover a beekeeper. First rain and thunder that evening and early Sunday morning, July 15. As soon as it cleared, packed and made a dash for our next campsite on Ironwood Island, only about 3.5 miles away. Another beautiful campsite right on the beach with fantastic sunset. Monday July 16 paddled about 10 miles around Manitou Island, around Oak Island Cliffs on north end of island, and to campsite #2 on the southwest end of the island. Again a beautiful site nestled in trees on a slight cliff overlooking the water. Hiked through beautiful forest up to the cliffs at the north end of the island, reported as the highest cliffs on Lake Superior Wisconsin's Lakeshore. Had a "deer encounter" where we quietly stopped and looked at each other for what seemed like eternity. Solitude was heavenly. Tuesday, July 17 was our last day, paddling from Oak Island about 10 miles back to Little Sand Bay Campground. Packed up our cars with our wet gear and headed back to Texas, after giving thanks for fantastic weather and scenery on this trip. The pictures provide a better trip report than the verbage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 20:11:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17265 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17229 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.145]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22443 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c1297934a ([24.17.250.176]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010722031054.FFQH17621.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_c1297934a>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:10:54 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c1125c$b01bfd00$b0fa1118_at_hlndpk1.il.home.com> Reply-To: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> From: "tfj" <tfj4_at_home.com> To: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F157oYAPNXRPmcarcR400000d35_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Apostle Island Trip Report Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:16:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net What was the surface water temp? When I was at Gargantua (Canadian side) in May, it was around 37. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 20:49:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27677 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27672 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:49:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17460 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.8.177d987c (4405) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8.177d987c.288ba722_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:48:50 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Interesting Rescue Practice To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, This was the third year in a row that I have hosted (this time co-hosted) a rescue practice for one of the local sea kayaking clubs. The purpose of these practices was to get together to practice, not to receive instruction, although some of that does end up happening informally. The president of the club held a beginning rescue class last weekend, but I was told that only one person showed up. Even though today's event was rescue practice, not a rescue class, my co-host, Anneli Kyner, did go ahead and demonstrate a few rescues on the sand before our group of 13 people launched. After her demonstration, one of the participants, who I will refer to as Kayaker X (who may be on this list and can identify himself and elaborate if he wants), stepped in on his own and did a good job demonstrating a couple of other rescues on the sand too. He seemed to know what he was doing. As we paddled a half mile out into the open ocean (calm day), KX told me that his sea kayak was being repaired, which is why he was paddling a river running white water kayak instead. Shortly after everyone started doing rescues, I was warming up by sculling and noticed that KX appeared to be setting up to try to roll, with his long time kayaking partner standing by to give him a bow rescue if needed. I continued sculling, and when I looked back over at KX about 30 seconds later, I saw him upside down in his kayak, his hands frantically splashing at the water surface, and his partner a few feet away. I could tell he was in trouble, and I yelled for anyone to help him while I started paddling the 30 feet over to him as fast as I could. About 10 feet from KX was Barbara Levine, who I assume is a grandmother, if not already a great grandmother, and she smartly paddled right over to him and gave him a bow, and he pulled himself up. Quite simply, Barbara saved his live! I paddled up to KX, and he looked like he saw a ghost. His sprayskirt was still on. He blamed his partner for not giving him a bow, and his explanation for not being able to wet exit was that he wasn't use to the tighter knee braces, even though he claimed he had wet exited from that very kayak in the past. I told him to take his sprayskirt off. Later, when he was recovered from the scare, I told him to do a wet exit to get his confidence (and mine) back. KX's partner said that he gave him a bow, but KX pushed it away, apparently in panic. He thought maybe KX wasn't use to the whitewater sprayskirt. I couldn't believe the whole thing and was glad everyone signed the club liability waiver! Then I was called over to help a small group trying to empty a kayak that was about to sink. It was one of those recreational sea kayaks that was about 14 feet long, made of plastic, and had rubber hatches. The guy, about 250 pounds, was trying to do a cowboy self-rescue, and in the process, he accidentally knocked off the back hatch, which caused the back storage area to flood. The cockpit area was already flooded from the wet exit. The only thing floating the kayak was the front storage area. I started to try to get the guy to do the curl rescue, but he was too tired. It ended up taking three of us to pull the flooded kayak over ours and drain enough water to allow for pumping. I couldn't believe how heavy that kayak was and how hard it was to get the water out of it. The guy said that he had previously expressed concern about the hatches accidentally coming off to a company rep, who told him not to worry about it. I, as well as some others, suggested that he keep some floatation bags in the kayak in case the hatch comes off again. Later, this same guy wasn't able to get into his kayak with a paddle float and had to be helped back in. If you are overweight or paddle with someone overweight, be especially aware of the difficulties with rescues. Afterwards, I suggested to him that he do some reading on self and assisted rescues with slings and to practice near shore in the bay. Another guy had one of those sleek fiberglass Heritage SOT's, and he had a lot of difficulty getting back into it without a paddle float. However, he did just fine with a paddle float. This wasn't the first time I saw a SOT paddler have trouble getting back into the boat. They should practice rescues too, and some of them should carry paddle floats also. One woman, who is a very fast paddler and had been on many guided trips in Baja, didn't appear to have done rescues before. She learned a lot today and was by far the most improved. All in all, it was a very interesting rescue practice. Again, it was a practice, not a class, so it was expected that the participants had some training or experience. Most of them did and were doing great practicing and experimenting, and they even had a lot of fun. I was there to practice and have fun too, so I gave only a very limited amount of instruction to those who needed it. Like I already said, instruction was offered last week, but apparently only one person took advantage of it. I just wish that learning and practicing rescues was more prevalent in sea kayaking. Duane Southern California <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/pirateseakayaker/index.html">Pirate Sea Kayaker</A> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 20:52:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00239 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00234 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.olypen.com (relay1.olypen.com [208.200.248.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21722 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.olypen.com (mail.olypen.com [208.200.248.2]) by relay1.olypen.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6M3qL210077 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:52:21 -0700 Received: from RobCampbell (s3a-130.olypen.com [208.200.249.130]) by mail.olypen.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6M3rF203683 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: <006301c11262$274346e0$82f9c8d0_at_RobCampbell> From: "Rob & Laura Campbell" <campy_at_olypen.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Clayoquot Sound Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:55:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am going to be travelling to Clayoquot Sound (Tofino, British Columbia) on 7/23-7/27. I will be taking my kayaks and look forward to taking day trips out of Tofino. I am an intermediate paddler and I would like to take 4-6 hour day trips. I know there are some challenging tidal currents in this area and I feel a little bit timid when it comes to dealing with these. Can anyone recommend some day trips which would allow me to avoid any serious tidal currents. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 21:02:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03297 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03292 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28193 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.bb.11575b85 (2169) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <bb.11575b85.288baa34_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 00:01:56 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Suggestions for a handheld marine radio battery source? To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/21/01 8:13:39 PM, mspadorchard_at_home.com writes: << 2. Any suggestion for a good handheld marine band radio that takes alkaline batteries, and a nicad or better rechargeable battery.... >> I think there are several threads on this in the PW archives. You might look there. I have a Ray100 (Raytheon) that is "waterproof" not submersible but has NiCads will take alkaline and the recharger. I really like the big screen letters/numbers. It is easy to operate through a West Marine small VHF dry bag. I've had mine for 2 years and it has had no problem except getting the rechargeable from Raytheon, which has taken 4 weeks so far and no signs of hope yet. I'm thinking about trying to jerry-rig my own with the existing screw base and store bought NiCads. I just need to figure out the wiring. Good luck, Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 21:23:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09467 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09462 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from texlog2.texas.rr.com (texlog2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.223]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11972 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbell.net (cs666878-203.austin.rr.com [66.68.78.203]) by texlog2.texas.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta5/8.12.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id f6M4LvdQ027887 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:21:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B5A560E.5CD27C9A_at_swbell.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:26:54 -0500 From: Rob Dee <plz_at_swbell.net> Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-SBI-NC472 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: trip report and photos!] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Opps...... I meant to cc this to Paddlewise and forgot to add the address, I hope I speak for many of us in expressing my appreciation to Ken. Best regards to Ken and all other Paddlewisers, Rob Dee X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3B5A54D0.45FF5ECF_at_swbell.net> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:21:36 -0500 From: Rob Dee <plz_at_swbell.net> Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-SBI-NC472 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kenneth Johnson <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: trip report and photos! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken, Thank you for taking all of us Paddlewisers along for the trip via your excellent trip report and photos....those were real knockouts! I almost bumped into John at the post office on Friday the 19th I was trying to admire the kayaks on his Land Cruiser and park at the same time and then recognized him from Austin Outdoor Gear & Guidance which is just blocks from my house. It was fun to see a local in your great photos. Thanks again for this trip report and all of your other contributions to Paddlewise, It was a treat to go along with you guys, if only from my armchair. Keep up the good work. Rob Dee Austin, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 22:09:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22289 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22283 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12622 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id BAA16149; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 01:09:11 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Reply-To: <sh_at_actglobal.net> From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:09:11 -0700 Message-ID: <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJEEIOEEAA.sh_at_actglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sandy, Most of the guys I paddle with and I, carry a couple of camp stools to set our boats on (I got mine for less than $3.00 ea at Campmor). Most of us carry 5 gal pails of water that we just pour over the boats. Those people who lack the 5 gal pails (I get them from work) use 1 or 2 of the large laundry detergents plastic containers that you can get at Costco or Wal-Mart/ Abut 2 - 2 1/2 gal of water is plenty to clean an entire boat. I use a little less than 5 gal to do both my Gulfstream and my wife's Shadow. After we pour the water over the boats, we wipe them down with a sponge and then spray on Armor-All, 303, or something similar. The whole process takes about 10 minutes and the boats are ready to be put away without further work when we get home. Also leads to many questions about kayaking as passers-by always stop to talk-- plus your boat looks really great each time you go to put it in the water. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 22:27:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28296 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28291; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xprt.net (root_at_xprt.net [209.102.124.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26122; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.102.126.90] (pdx-ppp114.pop1.net [209.102.125.164]) by xprt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA31904; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:26:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: xprt.net: Host pdx-ppp114.pop1.net [209.102.125.164] claimed to be [209.102.126.90] X-Sender: tina_at_pop3.pcez.com Message-Id: <l03130306b7800dfe94ae_at_[209.102.126.90]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:24:28 -0700 To: "Michael Orchard" <mspadorchard_at_home.com> From: Tina <tina_at_bentobuggy.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Suggestions for a handheld marine radio battery source? Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net, paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Michael, I just bought a replacement battery for a Yaesu FT-411 handheld, (2 meter modified for120,000 to 174,000mgz) from a place called Batteries America. Got a NimH 7.2v 1100mAHr rechargeable, which apparently is superior to NiCads, for $26.00. They carry batteries for any and all battery operated devices. The phone number listed on the battery is (608) 831-3443, and they always advertise in the ham mags. They have a web site, but the prices listed there were higher than the magazine ads. Don't have the URL anymore.... sorry. You're right across the river from me. I'm in Portland! Tina KB7SGC Michael Orchard wrote: I have an Icom IC-M15 handheld water resistant marine radio...my problem is that the battery needs replacing and the icom company really gouges customers on batteries...they want $139.00 for the 900 ma battery, and 159.00 for the 1200 ma battery. A secondary supplier should be able to sell this battery for about $50.00. <snip> 1. Any suggestions for a secondary supplier of a battery to fit that radio...I have not yet found one for this radio. ---------------------------------------------------- _____________ / -()-()-()-()-()- / I / -()-()-()-()-()- / / /___________/ / I___________I / Experience O R L X T C at the Bento Buggy: http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy/bxtc.htm --------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 21 23:06:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10390 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10385 Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA22784 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 20799 invoked by uid 3027); 22 Jul 2001 06:05:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 06:05:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:05:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Clayoquot Sound In-Reply-To: <006301c11262$274346e0$82f9c8d0_at_RobCampbell> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0107220151540.18399-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I actually a really fun, flat water trip out of Tofino once. A girlfriend and I really wanted a long trip...but....first I got food poisoning at a restaurant on the east side of the island, which evidenced itself at three in the morning on the west side. It put me out of commission for a day...and a wind stopped us for another day. By the time we got on the water we went straight up the middle of Meares Island, and eventually found what we thought seemed a campsite. We had a wonderful (low impact) evening and night, although wondered at the one large trunk that had been cut down (being old growth forest). (I have a picture I took scanned and archived on a disk - if anyone is interested I can post it someplace.) The next day we had to paddle out, but being my birthday (Sept. 6), my friend took me out for a drink and dessert. At the pub we found out it was also the anniversary of (I'm sure you Canadians will know) one of the great ships stopping on Meares to repair their ship with the log felled from the tree trunk we found. So...it was a short trip...no current, no wind, and you can even stay the night if you like. It's on the east side. When we were there the whole place was sadly framed by clearcut hills in the background. On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Rob & Laura Campbell wrote: > I am going to be travelling to Clayoquot Sound (Tofino, British Columbia) on > 7/23-7/27. I will be taking my kayaks and look forward to taking day trips Andree Hurley http://www.onwatersports.com/ - Kayak Instruction Excellence Port Townsend, WA (360) 379-4182 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 03:47:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA06705 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06700 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24751 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.7.193]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:46:53 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers? Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:44:51 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c1129b$56814db0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jul 2001 10:46:53.0636 (UTC) FILETIME=[9ECA1840:01C1129B] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net G'Day Sandy Re washing the boat down, most kayakers I know who put a boat on the roof of a car, wash it with fresh water to avoid car corrosion. The neatest system I've seen was a couple who used a pair of foldup tripod camp stools to support the kayak and a watering can to wash it down! they said it was because hose fittings weren't always available and didn't always work. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 04:09:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12959 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12954 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:09:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Blankibr_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08878 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 04:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Blankibr_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.e.ff0b485 (4216); Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e.ff0b485.288c0e51_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:09:05 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] More Info: Sea Kayaks Stolen near Annapolis, MD To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net CC: Blankibr_at_aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisenhymers: Thank you for your input. The location of the stolen boats was in the message subject line, but a few people missed that when reading the message so let me state it again. > Two kayaks were stolen from near Annapolis Maryland, 8 July 01: > > Dagger Baja S/N:DAQ60717D000 15foot 6" blue/green swirled > > Dagger Savannah S/N:DAQ60524D000 14foot 6" red may be swirled The models can be seen at www.dagger.com, under products/touring boats The theft was reported to Anne Arundel County Police Officer McClung, Report number 2001-728535. Phone: 410 222-1461. You can also report any information to me at 410 867-1051, the church camp where they were stolen at 410 867-0991, or toll free at 877 kayak H20. I am offering a $50 reward for information leading to their recovery from my own pocket. This information is also posted at Mariner.com and itsbeenstolen.com Brian Blankinship blankibr_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 07:18:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10132 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10127 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.147.1.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17490 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bklap (h00a0c5e2ab21.ne.mediaone.net [65.96.224.15]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6MEHrg24885 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ee01c112b9$194c8720$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> From: "Brian Kelly" <bkelly_at_mediaone.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak tents Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:17:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello all, I am looking for a tent that would be suitable for 2 people kayaking (and some > backpacking). I read the tent info at Paddlewise and I understand weight but > still am unsure of what the size limits are. I have a Looksha IV and have been > looking at the Sierra Designs Meteor and Clip. Would a tent be stored on deck > or in the hatch? Does a tent need to fit in a hatch? Obviously, I am new to > this! Thanks Brian Kelly *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 10:00:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29548 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29509 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08613 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [139.142.113.156] (helo=139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com) by mail.islandnet.com with SMTP id 15OMaY-000K5w-00 ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:00:19 -0700 Received: by 139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:58:49 -0700 Message-ID: <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com> From: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> To: "'Rob & Laura Campbell'" <campy_at_olypen.com>, "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Clayoquot Sound Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:56:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id KAA29515 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rob and Laura, Why don't you go into Lemmens Inlet by Meares Island, also I would like to recommend exploring Ucluelet Inlet, Tofino Inlet, Grice Bay or just paddle over to Vargas Island for the day. There are lots of choices one can do. One that was just proposed to me a couple of weeks ago that I had never thought of before was paddling between Toquart Bay and Ucluelet. There are lots of islands to stop at along the way and if you can time it properly there is a tour company that might be willing to give you a ride back to Ucluelet or vice versa. Does this help! Kirby Coastal Waters Recreation www.coastalwatersrec.com Publishers and Distributors of Coast Recreation Maps British Columbia -----Original Message----- From: Rob & Laura Campbell [SMTP:campy_at_olypen.com] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 8:56 PM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Clayoquot Sound I am going to be travelling to Clayoquot Sound (Tofino, British Columbia) on 7/23-7/27. I will be taking my kayaks and look forward to taking day trips out of Tofino. I am an intermediate paddler and I would like to take 4-6 hour day trips. I know there are some challenging tidal currents in this area and I feel a little bit timid when it comes to dealing with these. Can anyone recommend some day trips which would allow me to avoid any serious tidal currents. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 11:04:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19196 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19191 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23673 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6MI3iR03858; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:03:44 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330101b7812642718c_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <00ee01c112b9$194c8720$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> References: <00ee01c112b9$194c8720$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:00:55 -0500 To: "Brian Kelly" <bkelly_at_mediaone.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak tents Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Brian, you should try to never store anything on your deck -- it can interfere with rescues and can change your balance making your boat top-heavy. Pretty much any tent can be stored in a kayak, though depending on hatch size, you may have to split the tent into a couple dry bags. Speaking of dry bags, I really like using the SealLine bags from Cascade Designs. These are light nylon bags so they are very easy to stuff, and their shape makes them idea for tents. Think long sausage. You can't go wrong with a Sierra Designs tent, though I believe the Meteor and Clip might be a bit small for two. I have a Sierra Designs Lookout that I use often kayaking. This is a *huge* tent that can comfortably sleep two. Another tent that I like is the Marmot Area 51. This tent is a little odd, but you can find them cheap and it is really large and light. It's a single wall tent, so condensation can be an issue, but it is huge and a fun design. I picked mine up for $99 at REI Outlet a while back. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 16:17:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23760 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23755 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net (mail2.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28390 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d5.as0.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.166.6]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6MNHKK26636; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:17:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010722192447.482fc348_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:24:47 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? In-Reply-To: <12b.1975b63.28873611_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 02:57 PM 7/18/01 EDT, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > >I currently have a Yakima set-up on my 95 Honda Accord Wagon, but round bars >slip. Plus racks on top of factory-installed racks won't look that great. I was asked this weekend if drilling a hole in the mount and bar to put a set screw into a Yakima rack to keep it from turning was a good or bad idea. Since my racks involve 2x4s, I didn't have an answer. Anyone here know? -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 22 17:34:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16861 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16827 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20106 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id 4.ab.c9bbb57 (14377); Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <ab.c9bbb57.288cca26_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:30:30 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? To: boydwe_at_dmci.net, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/22/01 11:22:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: << I was asked this weekend if drilling a hole in the mount and bar to put a set screw into a Yakima rack to keep it from turning was a good or bad idea. Since my racks involve 2x4s, I didn't have an answer. Anyone here know?>> I have been urged to do just this. Yakama says not to do it and that may be because there are potential downsides to doing so. What I ended up doing was to take that mesh stuff for wallboard and putting it around the bar inside the bracket. It has held without a slip for quite a while and through several way heavy boats being pushed on my Jeep Cherokee. That is a lot of tourquing because I'm only 5'6" and have to push them way up rather than just across. I'm pleased with the results. As far as the Yak rack on my factory rack, I think it looks great, as great as Yak racks look. It saves the towers clamped to the roof. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 00:19:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18752 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18737 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00580 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28817 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27471 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23529 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net (mail2.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27417 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d5.as0.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.166.6]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6MNEDK25953; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010722192140.482f8264_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:21:40 To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club T-Shirts In-Reply-To: <7c.189c8556.2886065f_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 05:21 PM 7/17/01 EDT, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > >I'm having a hard time deciding which shirt to wear...without appearing to >choose allegiance to one club over the other....so, I've decided to really >stir things up and wear my PADDLEWISE T-SHIRT! I was at the Great Lakes Symposium for a while this weekend, and had on the only Paddlewise t-shirt I saw. Attendance was way down, I was told, but where was everybody? -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 00:21:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19704 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19675 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01912 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29213 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27491 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28309 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25479 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-307.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.65]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05572 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:49:26 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B5B903C.B5C576ED_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:47:24 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak tents References: <00ee01c112b9$194c8720$0500a8c0_at_Eire.msft> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Brian, I also have a Looksha IV and I use a Eureka Apex it will fit either hatch (I usually put it in the front one. I would not carry a tent on deck because the weight that high could upset the balance of the boat and the salt water spray would cause damage to the tent fabric and poles. Not to mention soaking the tent on a rainy day when you really need it to be dry. It sets up easy solo and can handle a good bit of wind as I found out the hard way two years ago. Bob, Alaska Brian Kelly wrote: > Hello all, > > I am looking for a tent that would be suitable for 2 people kayaking *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 00:21:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19065 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19060 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01152 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28838 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27480 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 00:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00065 Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13011 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.104.67278e1 (661) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <104.67278e1.288cbdde_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:38:06 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Stephen's Near Death Story To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was multipart/alternative Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, Stephen, who was the one who almost drowned during a rescue practice that I hosted for a local kayaking club, provided his own narrative about what happened. He allowed me to forward it to this list. In a message dated 7/22/01 9:35:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, snestel_at_email.msn.com writes: > Yesterday I attended Duane Stosaker's rescue clinic off Dana Point and had a > near miss with drowning. > > About 10-12 paddled about 1/2 mile outside the harbor entrance to practice > rolls, deep water rescues, wet exits, paddle float rescues, etc. > > I borrowed a river kayak that was a tight fit for my large frame. It had a > very tight fitting neoprene spray skirt with knee braces and a bulkhead > between the legs. I did not adjust the foot pegs before leaving the harbor. > > When I tipped over and my first two roll attempts failed, I seeked > assistance by banging on my hull. My spotter came over and I tried to lift > myself up using his bow but slipped and his boat was pushed away. I reached > again but could not get his boat. > > I tried to wet exit but could not reach the grab loop for the spray skirt > because I had accidentally put it on the inside of my tight fitting spray > deck. I tried to push loose but my legs were wedged up against the thigh > braces. Because I had not adjusted the footpegs, I couldn't loosen my legs > in the upside down confusion. > > I knew that I could be in deep doo doo! > > I banged my hull again this time more wildly. I tried to roll up again to > grab a breath of air but could not. I did this several times more. I felt > for my partners boat. > > Finally, a hull came close to my grasp and I was able to surface. (You know > your name. Thank you very much!) Duane had observed my struggle and came > along my side. He wisely suggested that I not put the spray deck on the > boat again and only practice wet exits. > > On the surface, the other kayakers said that they had no idea of my few > seconds of torment. They thought I was practicing but a breath away of > swallowing the briney death. > > Lessons learned: > > 1.) Don't be overconfident. Check the fit of an unfamiliar boat before you > leave shore. Short foot pegs in my craft made wet exit very difficult. > > 2.) Keep the spray deck grab loop on deck at all times. This was my near > fatal mistake! My borrowed spray deck was too tight and I had no way of > pulling it loose. > > 3.) Practice bow rescues with your partner. Be certain of your signals and > technique. Eskimos were attached to their boat and could not wet exit. The > bow rescue was their first and only line of defense when rolls fail. > > 4.) Paddle with other kayakers. Though I could have swallowed water and > passed out, I was in the company of many excellent paddlers. I am confident > that someone would have come to my assistance had I become incapacitated. > > 5.) Practice all rescue techniques regularly. > > A heartfelt, "thank you" to Duane for having this excellent clinic. I > learned a lot! > > > _at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at__at_ > Stephen Nestel > I don't remember the grab loop being inside or Stephen having any difficulty getting the sprayskirt off the cockpit rim once he was upright again. However, those were some emotional moments right afterwards, so who knows. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 07:30:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28760 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28755 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f189.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.189]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27319 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:27:24 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.68 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:27:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.68] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Kayak tents Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:27:24 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F189QZiCTSrdUWhn65D00003fdd_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2001 14:27:24.0265 (UTC) FILETIME=[97459D90:01C11383] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Take two Hennessey Hammocks! They take up little room since you can pack them each in a different part of the boat and they are the most comfortable thing to sleep in. When needing a tent to share with my hammock-challenged spouse, I take a Jack Wolfskin Outer Limits in a tent dry bag and put it on the deck. The tent bag is long, skinny and causes no balance problems for me. I have good balance, but no one should be too bothered by a tent bag on deck when the boat is loaded and pretty bottom-heavy anyway. In my opinion. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 07:46:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04668 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04663 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10861 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04503 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA27611 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 07:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27776 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 04:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ws2-8.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-86.outblaze.com [205.158.62.86]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA04898 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 04:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 493 invoked by uid 1001); 23 Jul 2001 11:01:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20010723110136.492.qmail_at_earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from ws2-8.us4.outblaze.com for [206.217.105.36] via web-mailer on Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:01:36 +0800 From: " Debbie Reeves" <oceanswells_at_earthlink.net> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:01:36 +0800 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks/cradles for minivans? Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Wes, I put screws in mine and they have been fine since. No problems. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > At 02:57 PM 7/18/01 EDT, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > I was asked this weekend if drilling a hole in the mount and bar to put a > set screw into a Yakima rack to keep it from turning was a good or bad > idea. Since my racks involve 2x4s, I didn't have an answer. Anyone here know? > > -- Wes -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://webmail.earthlink.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 08:55:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26281 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26276 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) From: mje_at_spamcop.net Received: from shelob.julianhaight.com (shelob.julianhaight.com [64.90.162.82]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00942 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spamcop.net (saruman.julianhaight.com [64.90.162.84]) by shelob.julianhaight.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6NFkB880408 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mje_at_spamcop.net) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107231546.f6NFkB880408_at_shelob.julianhaight.com> Received: from [141.217.25.25] by spamcop.net with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:46:10 GMT To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] roof racks X-Mailer: Mozilla/4.73 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) via http://spamcop.net/ v1.3.2 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 06:21 PM 7/18/01 -0500, WhiteRabbit wrote: >Has anyone tried wrapping the factory cross pieces with the rolls of 3/8 >inch foam pipe insulation? I need to transport my kayak on a van which has >the factory rack. Since this is a one time thing I need something secure >and cheap. When I bought my first canoe 14 years ago (a 17' Sawyer), I needed a rack to bring it home, and the built-in rack on my Honda 4WD wagon was too narrow. I went to the hardware store next door and bought two 2x2s cut to about 4-5', and pipe insulation sufficient to cover them. I then lashed the 2x2s to the factory car rack, tied the canoe on with webbing and fore-aft lines, and drove the 15 miles home. -- mike --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 09:58:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14930 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14925 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18225 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:56:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6NGuBs14682 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:56:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330102b782684fc8eb_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <F189QZiCTSrdUWhn65D00003fdd_at_hotmail.com> References: <F189QZiCTSrdUWhn65D00003fdd_at_hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:54:20 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak tents Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My main gripe with any gear stored on the deck is not so much balance as it can really interfere with rescues. This of course can depend of conditions, but more stuff on deck means more stuff to wash off in surf. It can get in the way when you or someone else is trying to grab deck lines. It makes the boat more difficult to roll back up after a capsize (with or without you in it). I have just seen too many people with badly geared-up boats. Going out on Lake Superior (or any large body of water) with a large dry bag stuffed in to cockpit between your legs is just not a good idea, but I've seen it done. I know a small tent is pretty minimum to lash to the deck, but it can get out of hand pretty quick. I've also seen plenty jumbo canoe-sized drybags lashed to rear and fore(!) decks. Thoughts anyone? -Patrick At 9:27 AM -0500 7/23/01, James Tibensky wrote: [SNIP] > >When needing a tent to share with my hammock-challenged spouse, I >take a Jack Wolfskin Outer Limits in a tent dry bag and put it on >the deck. The tent bag is long, skinny and causes no balance >problems for me. I have good balance, but no one should be too >bothered by a tent bag on deck when the boat is loaded and pretty >bottom-heavy anyway. In my opinion. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 10:25:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24071 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24066 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10646 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07008 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA27680 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02484 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15484 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6NGBO232647 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:11:24 -0700 Message-ID: <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:13:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your experiences with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or skeg. A paddling friend is considering buying a boat soon. My friend has paddled the current designs Solstice and Solstice GT as day rentals. Tried one that had no skeg or rudder on a recent demo night, and rented the CD Caribou for a day paddle (a hard chine boat with skeg). There is a Necky demo night this week and the dealer may be able to get a Looksha IV to try. I suggested trying the Arluk 1.9 (soft chine) but this dealer says the Arluks are basically out of production and not readily available. Thanks ~ Diane Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 10:51:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02518 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02479 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29443 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA09329; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:26:58 -0400 Message-Id: <200107231726.NAA09329_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:46:56 -0400 To: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above In-Reply-To: <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> References: <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 09:13 AM 7/23/01 -0700, Diane McNally wrote: >Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your experiences >with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or skeg. A paddling >friend is considering buying a boat soon. > >My friend has paddled the current designs Solstice and Solstice GT as day >rentals. Tried one that had no skeg or rudder on a recent demo night, and >rented the CD Caribou for a day paddle (a hard chine boat with skeg). Depends on the boat and the use. I've got a boat with a rudder. It's long with no rocker and really needs the rudder to turn. I also like having the rudder if I'm going to be paddling a long way with a crosswind. Sure I could control the boat with strokes and leaning but after a couple of hours do you want to keep doing that. Yesterday I paddled a skin/frame kayak with a retractable skeg. I left the skeg up for the entire paddle because the crosswinds just didn't warrant the extra tracking the skeg allows. A friend was paddling my VCP Pintail. He wanted the skeg because the boat turns easier than he wanted. When I want to go fast and straight I like having a rudder. When I'm exploring I like a rockered boat without a rudder or skeg. When in a rockered boat with a crosswind I like having a skeg. So in the garage we have 1 kayak(actually a surf ski) with a rudder, 1 sea kayak with a retractable skeg, one with an integral skeg, and one without any appendages. If your friend does decide to get a ruddered boat encourage them to use the rudder as little as possible. They need to be able to paddle the boat when the rudder breaks or jams. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 10:54:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03008 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03003 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02981 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12221 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27724 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01653 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28625 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6NHn5205191; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:49:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:50:36 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <545895150.20010723105036_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above In-Reply-To: <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> References: <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com> <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, July 23, 2001, at 09:13:37 AM PDT, Diane McNally wrote: > Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your > experiences with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or > skeg. A paddling friend is considering buying a boat soon. > My friend has paddled the current designs Solstice and Solstice GT > as day rentals. Tried one that had no skeg or rudder on a recent > demo night, and rented the CD Caribou for a day paddle (a hard chine > boat with skeg). Though I do not wish to engage in a holy war, I'll mention a thought or two... I paddle a pre-skeg Caribou, and though it can weathercock, this behavior can be corrected adequately without a skeg. I've been working on my tolerance levels, and I've come to accept the use of retractable skegs by those who wish to use them. As hard as I've tried, I still can't bring myself to accept those silly rudder contraptions sticking out all over the place. Just in case, I have my flameproof wetsuit ready to go. In fact, instead of waiting for the flames, I might as well put it on and get out on the water where I belong. See ya! :-) Melissa - -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 10:59:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03275 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03270 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cae.wisc.edu (galaga.cae.wisc.edu [144.92.240.30]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03800 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coop (admin178.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.178.136]) by cae.wisc.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA07353; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:57:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010723124724.00a3e3f0_at_cae.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mastalsk_at_cae.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:57:05 -0500 To: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> From: Mark Mastalski <mastalski_at_engr.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> References: <01C11294.E7F16020_at_139-142-113-156.dialup.islandnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane, Personally I am a skeg fan, but I have paddled boats with both. I like how a skeg disappears inside the boat and reduces windage. Also in rescue situations you don't have a 2-1/2 foot piece of metal flopping around in the water with the swimmer. I've seen some nasty cuts. I have a strong whitewater kayak background and find that most boats which have skegs tend to be very maneuverable when the skeg is not engaged. I like that playful feel and also like the solidness of the footpegs, which you don't get with most rudder systems on the market today. Last July I spent four days in the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior with a Solstice GTS (smaller version of GT). I had 5-6 foot seas and never engaged the rudder because the boat tracks so well. That being said, the Solstice is not very maneuverable because it has a fish form to it. The CD Caribou needs a skeg badly in my opinion. I've taken the boat out in one-foot waves and had it weathercock badly. If your friend is looking for a hard-chined boat I highly recommend a NDK Greenlander (ocean cockpit) or Greenlander Pro (keyhole cockpit). This is a fast 17' boat which is pure heaven to paddle. It does not have as much volume as a Solstice however, so not knowing what your friend intends to do will determine to some extent the size of the boat. A Romany (16') and Explorer (17'6") are two boats which are modified hard chines. Basically the took the hard-chine idea of an Anas Acuta and rounded the chines a bit. Both boats have a great feel and paddle very well. The Explorer is also available in a High-Volume (HV) version. Also, if your friend likes the Romany with a bit more room the Poseidon is worth checking out. Good luck and happy paddling. Mark At 11:13 AM 7/23/01 , you wrote: >Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your experiences >with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or skeg. A paddling >friend is considering buying a boat soon. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 11:54:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20902 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20897 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f156.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.156]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16752 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:52:08 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.29 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:52:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.29] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:52:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F1563Ih7jtrSByh133t00004dcd_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2001 18:52:08.0278 (UTC) FILETIME=[92E1A760:01C113A8] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This question, skeg, rudder, or none of the above, is answered much the same way a question about the type of paddle or boat to use - the variables are so numerous as to make advice, I think, impossible. The variables include skill, type of trip, load in the boat and things like that. Under the category of skill there is rolling ability [or lack of], balance, strength, endurance, quality of strokes,etc. Take one of those, balance, and discuss leans, leaned turns, likelihood of tipping over, comfort in wide or narrow boats. Then discuss one of those,leaned turns, in flat water, heavy seas, cross winds, boat full of gear, boat empty. How many combinations can we produce? Thousands! The point is - I think a person has to paddle a lot to know what equipment to get. And that isn't so easy. Renting or buying used stuff really makes sense. I've never paddled a single kayak that weathercocked enough to give me a really hard time [I have such strong strokes!], so I always said "A good paddler never really needs a rudder." But the first time in my double I was eating my words and begging my wife to put the rudder down. (If a person could survive on a diet of his own words, I'd never have to buy food!) Anyway, skegs and rudders can be retrofitted if really necessary. In Greenland a lot of club boats have fins that can be strapped on or removed quite easily. A retractable skeg seems like the most versatile choice. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 12:03:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23931 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23926 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cae.wisc.edu (galaga.cae.wisc.edu [144.92.240.30]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23360 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coop (admin178.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.178.136]) by cae.wisc.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA24666 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:01:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010723135841.00a52920_at_cae.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mastalsk_at_cae.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:01:29 -0500 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Mark Mastalski <mastalski_at_engr.wisc.edu> Subject: [Paddlewise] Lake Superior Provincial Park Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anyone paddled Lake Superior Provincial Park? I'm heading up there in August and would appreciate some beta. I'm not finding much information so don't know what to expect. I'll be spending a week there starting on Lake Mijinjimunski and portaging into Old Woman Lake. I should mention we are foregoing kayaks and taking canoes...sorry. Any information or suggestions you may have would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark Mastalski Madison, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 12:23:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00153 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00148 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f101.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10608 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:22:53 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.29 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:22:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.29] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Stuff on the deck Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:22:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F101xQFM83UV8wAddX400004c70_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2001 19:22:53.0143 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE81B670:01C113AC] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Patrick wrote: My main gripe with any gear stored on the deck is... it can really interfere with rescues. ...More stuff on deck means more stuff to wash off. It can get in the way when you or someone else is trying to grab deck lines. It makes the boat more difficult to roll back up after a capsize (with or without you in it). I have just seen too many people with badly geared-up boats. I've also seen plenty jumbo canoe-sized drybags lashed to rear and fore(!) decks. Thoughts anyone? -Patrick The important point is "badly geared up". Depending on conditions and skill levels, and even boat size, lashing stuff tightly to the deck need not place one in jeopardy [being "goodly geared up"]. My double is so long that a four foot long bag lashed to the stern deck would not get in the way of someone crawling up the back for a re-entry. And the bow has room, too. Yes, the boat will be harder to roll back up, but a properly sealed dry bag adds enough flotation that the boat should sit on its side with a little help. I once took two long dry bags that were on decks and lashed them to a person's boat using a take-apart paddle as stiffeners, one dry bag on each side behind the cockpit. The paddle halves were lashed crosswise to the length of the kayak to hold the bags in the water. It allowed a novice paddler to handle moderate waves safely and took the fright out of the day's trip for them. The bags acted as floats [I refuse to use the word "sponsons"]. Crude, but it worked for the afternoon paddle that we wanted to make. And that paddler was really grateful for what had previously been bags lashed to the top of the deck. I've used bags on the deck to carry tents on every extended trip I've ever been on and it hasn't bit me yet. I know that it can bite me in the future, but I'm reasonably careful about going out in bad conditions and I've never had a sea kayak tip over on me except when surfing for fun. The comfort of taking the stuff I put into the bag on the deck is worth the risk. The heaviest stuff goes in the bottom of the boat, including the poles for the tent. We're back to a discussion of risk taking, and, as always, I look forward to what others have to say. Thanks for listening, Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 12:35:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03409 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03404 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.128]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19998 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cb5090a ([24.178.209.58]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010723193527.PLSW14722.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_cb5090a> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:35:27 -0700 Message-ID: <008801c113ad$40f43260$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> From: "Ron Dunnington" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg vs. Rudder Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:25:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I've not had a lot of experience with either skegs or rudders but it seems to me we're talking 2 very different animals here. A rudder is used to turn the rear of the boat as opposed to a skeg with keeps the rear from turning. I recently saw a young lady try to paddle a 17' boat with a skeg in 3' waves and a 15-20 knot quartering wind. The skeg stabilized the rear of her boat nicely but the bow blew around on her and, with the skeg down, she couldn't correct it. I was using my rudder on an identically sized boat and had no problem maintaining control. I came away from the experience feeling like a skeg is very limited in it's usefulness. I tried my boat with the rudder up, as I've heard you should be able to do and, although I could control the boat using various strokes and leans, it took considerably more effort. Ron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 13:02:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10659 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10601 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:00:33 -0700 (PDT) From: uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07704 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:00:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6NK0MZ20638 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:00:23 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6NK0Mh103688 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:00:22 -0300 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:00:22 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Self Rescue Practice and unpleasant surprises Message-ID: <3B5C5826.8525.1A3FFB8_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, I would like to take the opportunity to add a few of my experiences to this topic. This winter I built a new boat, much narrower and lower than the previous one. With the close cell foam outfitting it is a tight fit. In the beginning the fit was even tighter. On a first trip out on a lake for self rescue and rolling practice I decided to do a wet exit first. Good idea. It took quite significant time to wiggle myself out of the cockpit. After a blown roll with less air left in the lungs it would had been a nice setup to get into panic mode. The next day I cut the knee braces way back and now the fit is still good and I get out without trouble. Last summer I started to set myself on a schedule. One evening in the week I go out on a lake to practice rolls, self rescues etc. The scheduling is a good thing to do, otherwise there is always a reason or excuse not to go. Last week I tried a couple of new things with friends. Capsized, stayed in the cockpit and pretended to be passed out. My friend tried to get me back to the surface by reaching over, grab hold on my pfd and started to rotate my boat and pulling me to the surface. Didn't work very well, I don't know if our hard chined boats added to the problem -rounded hulls may slip easier against each other-, he could get my head above the surface, but that was it. Any tips how to do that better? Second scenario. Passed out paddler in the water, get him back into his boat. We tried the scoop rescue. Worked up to the point were I was back in the cockpit and he tried to spin me the 90 deg. back up. Similar problem like before, the flat chines simply were pressed against each other and rotating the boat up was pretty hard work. We also practiced the more common stuff like assisted rescues, all in etc. It was fun and in some parts an eyeopener . I still need more practice with the paddle float outrigger. Right now it feels like trying to climb back into a 2 x 4. I had it pretty good in the old wider boat, with the new narrow one a different story. After all the postings today and in the last digest I also put the bow rescue on the game plan for this weeks session. Woun't hurt. However, I executed my first split paddle roll, something I tried all winter in numberous pool sessions without success. Be safe Cheers Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 13:04:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12178 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12173 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.iserv.net (mail2.iserv.net [204.177.184.152]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10319 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dellcomputer (tnt2-28-142.iserv.net [204.157.28.142]) by mail2.iserv.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6NK2cw01184 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:02:39 -0400 Message-ID: <008901c113b3$16b7c2e0$8e1c9dcc_at_dellcomputer> From: "drsm" <drsm_at_iserv.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Lake Superior Provincial Park Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:03:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Mark: I've paddled the big lake, but never inland. Can give you info on trails too, if you need it. Let me know if either is useful to you. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 13:58:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27538 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27533 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21088 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muphrid (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6NKuLF29654; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:56:21 -0400 From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: <Strosaker_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Stephen's Near Death Story Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:56:58 -0700 Message-ID: <001201c113ba$0403fea0$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <104.67278e1.288cbdde_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Duane, Thanks for posting this story. I have some comments below. Of course, it is almost, but not quite, needless to say that we should always be in the habit of checking our companions' skirts to see if the grabloop is out. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Strosaker_at_aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:38 PM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Stephen's Near Death Story > > When I tipped over and my first two roll attempts failed, I seeked > assistance by banging on my hull. My spotter came over and I tried to lift > myself up using his bow but slipped and his boat was pushed away. I reached > again but could not get his boat. Whenever I explain the bow rescue, I stress that it is very important to grab the bow with *both* hands first. It is not clear that Stephen did this or not, but I have always found it much more difficult to do it with one hand. Using two hands also much reduces mental confusion about which way to "roll" up. > > I tried to wet exit but could not reach the grab loop for the spray skirt > because I had accidentally put it on the inside of my tight fitting spray > deck. There are some other ways to release the skirt than just the grabloop. One is to punch the center of the skirt down into the cockpit. This will often release the skirt, especially on a plastic boat -- fiberglass boats may have a coaming that is too sharp. Of course, this doesn't work well for those who use an implosion bar... Another way to release the skirt is to grab the it at the side of the coaming and wriggle it up enough to get your fingers underneath. The side is the part of the skirt with the least tension. A final one for looser fitting skirts is to reach inside the tunnel and pull up at the side from underneath. > I tried to push loose but my legs were wedged up against the thigh > braces. Because I had not adjusted the footpegs, I couldn't loosen my legs > in the upside down confusion. > > I knew that I could be in deep doo doo! > > I banged my hull again this time more wildly. I tried to roll up again to > grab a breath of air but could not. I did this several times more. I felt > for my partners boat. > > Finally, a hull came close to my grasp and I was able to surface. I'm surprised that it took so long for someone to give a bow for a second attempt. Either time was dilated for the person, or the resuers had very little boat control. Incidently, this is always a risk when teaching rank beginners the bow rescue -- they simply may not be able to get their boat in the proper position. It is good for the instructor to be close by if this is a concern. > > On the surface, the other kayakers said that they had no idea of my few > seconds of torment. They thought I was practicing but a breath away of > swallowing the briney death. > Strange that they were complacent *after* a failed bow rescue attempt, and then another banging on the hull signalling dire need of a bow rescue. Were they all expecting someone else to do it? Cheers, Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 14:22:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03642 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03637 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goliath.cnchost.com (goliath.cnchost.com [207.155.252.47]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06506 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by goliath.cnchost.com id RAA10527; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:17:23 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Reply-To: <sh_at_actglobal.net> From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:17:23 -0700 Message-ID: <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJIEJLEEAA.sh_at_actglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane, My first boat was bought without a rudder and I later added one to it after paddling it for a year without. My current boat is a CD Gulfstream with a skeg and my wife paddles a fiberglass Perception Shadow with a rudder. To share our experiences, my wife has always hated rudders but fell in love with the Shadow. Even though the boat comes with a rudder, she thought she could paddle it without using it. The boat does weathercock and she has found that when the wind picks up the rudder is not optional, but a necessity. She no longer minds using it. When I got the Gulfstream, I had been using a rudder for about 3 years. I didn't like the fact that the pedals were no longer immovable and it took me quite a while to get used to pushing with both feet instead of one if I didn't intend to turn. The skeg on the Gulfstream is fantastic. It can completely eliminate any weathercocking and does not add the drag that a rudder does. It's also much easier to paddle without having to do a continuous knee hang. The Gulfstream has a real tendency to broach in a following sea. The skeg helps eliminate that as well. If I had to do things over again, I would still buy the Gulfstream with the skeg - and use it. It's a great boat and the skeg is a great tool. Steve Holtzman > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 09:13:37 -0700 > From: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> > Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above > > Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your experiences > with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or skeg. A paddling > friend is considering buying a boat soon. > > My friend has paddled the current designs Solstice and Solstice GT as day > rentals. Tried one that had no skeg or rudder on a recent demo night, and > rented the CD Caribou for a day paddle (a hard chine boat with skeg). > > There is a Necky demo night this week and the dealer may be able to get a > Looksha IV to try. I suggested trying the Arluk 1.9 (soft chine) but this > dealer says the Arluks are basically out of production and not readily > available. > > Thanks ~ > > Diane > Victoria BC > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 14:35:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09349 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09343 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.bendnet.com (mail.bendnet.com [206.163.50.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20431 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bendnet.com (mail.bend.com [204.245.222.134]) by mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with SMTP id f6NLXgH60682 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 204.124.93.254 (Mail authenticated user anomad) by mail.bend.com with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above From: "anomad_at_bendnet.com" <anomad_at_bendnet.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> X-Mailer: Mail (version 1.1.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I researched this a lot when I decided on my boats. So far I have decided against. I have found that my desire for a tracking aid increases exponentially with how out of shape I am. If I haven't been paddling in months, I would give my seat cushion for a rudder/skeg/keel. But, like now, when I am out for hours every weekend I couldn't care less for a rudder..... Racing, serious open water, sailing, or a tandem, would all be circumstances that I would probably not go without a rudder or tracking aid of some sort. Its very personal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 14:38:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09581 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09574 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21492 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27647 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27831 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06840 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (arctic.tamug.tamu.edu [165.95.51.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14956 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiestn ([165.95.181.95]) by arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f6NLTYR04312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:29:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: Aggie Hotline, Monday, July 23, 2001 (Padre Island Texas) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:30:43 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBJIIICLEJOLIFHKKHIEGFCNAA.wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net For those of you who may have an interest in paddling along Padre Island, Texas, here is something else to consider in that location. For those of you unfamiliar with Texas lore, the "Aggies" refers to students, past, current, or future, of Texas A&M University. The Aggie Hotline is our online newsletter and as you can see, I am forwarding from it. FWIW, Barto Arnold is in Galveston this summer and I see him on a fairly regular basis on campus; we have a display up here in the Library on his Denbigh dig. Drop in if you're in the neighborhood; good kayaking too from the edge of campus. Natalie Wiest Galveston Texas (kayaker; librarian at TAMUG) AGGIE HOTLINE – MONDAY, JULY 23, 2001 Arnold's Research Provides Map for July National Geographic The July issue of National Geographic Magazine contains a map of a Padre Island shipwreck based on information provided by the research of Barto Arnold, a Texas A&M nautical archaeologist. Arnold's work on the shipwreck resulted in a book titled "Nautical Archaeology of Padre Island," with co-author Robert Weddle. Arnold is currently working on two projects in Texas. One is in Galveston Bay – the Denbigh, a Civil War blockade runner that sank in 1865. The other is the Red River shipwreck – the Caddo, an 1830s era riverboat that sank in 1842. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ABOUT AGGIE HOTLINE... AGGIE HOTLINE, a news briefs service of University Relations, is distributed each weekday to the Texas A&M University community. The complete story on briefs marked with an asterisk (*) can be found on the World Wide Web at <http://www.tamu.edu/aggiedaily/>. Briefs marked with a number sign <#> are taken from stories produced by Texas A&M's Department of Agricultural Communications. For the full text of these stories, refer to the Ag Com World Wide Web site at <http://agnews.tamu.edu>. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ The Aggie-Hotline Listserv list is a service of Texas A&M University. The information can also be found on the Web at: http://www.tamu.edu/aggiedaily/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 14:47:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12463 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12458 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28724 for <PADDLEWISE_at_PADDLEWISE.NET>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 14:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id D63CD9BA0; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.91), claiming to be "firewall2" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdU17688; Mon Jul 23 17:43:53 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6P6AH>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:42:44 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9CF_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'PADDLEWISE_at_PADDLEWISE.NET'" <PADDLEWISE_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] A SPY AMONG US Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:42:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net As much as I hate to say it, one of you P'Wisers is a dirty, rotten, traitorous, coniving spy!!!!! If you recall a month or so ago, I wrote a pseudo trip report entitled "The Psycho Duck". If you are new and don't recall it, you can find it on Wes Boyd's web-site (I haven't asked permission to point to it, so I didn't list his site address). Anyway, just when you thought it was safe........ One of you P'Wisers must be somehow acquainted with my father, unbeknownst to me. Pop only lives about 4 miles from me, and is the only other person (accept my wife) who has a key to my truck. You folks (who I used to really like) are the only ones that I confided the duck story to. So, one of you must have told him the story, because when I went out to the truck Sunday morning, I opened the door (locked the night before), got in, and right there on the passenger seat, "staring right at me, just like old times!", was a duck decoy. Not as realistic as the other, but it made it's point. At first, I just kinda wondered "where did that come from?" Then, the Psycho duck came to mind (picture the horse head from The Godfather).... that's when the hyperventilating started. It didn't appear to to be armed, but just to be on the safe side, I hastily exited the truck (kinda like a wet exit, since I was getting close to needing a change of cloths), rushed into the house, dialed Pops phone number (who knew it was me calling, since he has caller ID) and listened to him smirkily (new word I'm submitting to Websters) answer with "Hello, Son, what's up?" That variance from our normal conversations was as good as self-incrimination, since most of our conversations begin with him saying "I need a bit of help.... yadah-da, da dah". Poor ole Pop , when questioned, just answered, "Who, me? I have no idea what you're talking about". Of course, he denies the whole thing. But he and ducks have a long, sordid history. When my oldest daughter was just a mere 5 or 6, we were leaving his house one night without the floodlights on. Sara rushed over to some ducks sitting on the driveway, when Pop made some supposedly comical remarks about them being man-eating ducks and if she didn't go straight home and to bed they'd come eat her daddy in the middle of the night (shoulda seen my 102 pound wife eat his lunch for that!!!!). She (daughter, not wife, but it could've worked out either way) cried the whole way home, and was scared of ducks for about the next 3-4 years. Yeah, I know.... I have a demented dad, but I'm trying to break the chain (the wife say's "try harder")...... which just helps build a case against him in this latest duck-tale. So fess up! Who's in cahoots with my old man who is trying to send me to the cuckoo's nest (er, should that be "to the quack house?")!!!!!!!! Seriously..... who on the list knows Pop? He doesn't paddle anything (except me, and that was years ago), and from what/where do you know him? More importantly, gimme some ammo so I can seek revenge!!! :-) Rick "They're after me and I've no place to hide" Sylvia PS - On the bright side, I took the decoy and tossed it into the fence with my two dogs, who took care of it in short order! A hollow and shallow revenge, but sweet nonetheless! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 16:15:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09601 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09596 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:13:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06158 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.6f.186fe601 (3957) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6f.186fe601.288e097f_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:13:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/23/01 2:23:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sh_at_actglobal.net writes: > The Gulfstream has a real tendency to broach in a following sea. The skeg > helps eliminate that as well. > > Everyone, I've paddled alongside a British kayak with the adjustable skeg deployed, and I watched it broach terribly for hours on end in tight following seas. It was being paddled by a very experienced and skilled paddler, Jim Gabriel, who at the time was wishing he was paddling my North American kayak, which was equipped with a rudder. While he had to make multiple corrective strokes to get back on course after each broach, all I had to do was step on the rudder pedal. A skeg may reduce your broaching some, but you are still going to broach, and since the skeg is improving your tracking, it is also making it harder to turn back on course. I don't mind paddling a skegged kayak 10 miles, but when it comes to 20-30 miles days, you better believe I am going to have a rudder and that it will be deployed, even on a calm day. All of those corrective strokes, even properly performed, can tear your body up over long distances. Duane Who has owned ruddered, skegged, and tracking device free kayaks. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 16:37:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16049 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16042 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23416 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:36:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muphrid (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6NNasF30730; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:36:54 -0400 From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: "'Diane McNally'" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:37:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c113d0$71566fe0$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002301c11392$6e7997e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane, The question should not be, "do I want a skeg or a rudder?", but rather the proper question you should ask is "does the boat that I want require a rudder, skeg, or neither?". A well behaved sea kayak ought to have two properties. It will track well in wind and rough water (e.g. no weather cocking), and it will turn well when the paddler desires this. A very well designed boat can do this just fine without a rudder or skeg, while a poorly designed boat may require a rudder or skeg to achieve one or both. For example, my Pygmy Arctic Tern tracks great when held level, and turns great when on edge. It has no rudder or skeg, and I love the simplicity and ultimate reliability of no moving mechanical parts. However there are tradeoffs... I had to become proficient in edging to facilitate turning, and fortunately the Tern has great secondary stability. The tradeoff is that a boat that relies on a skeg can have much more rocker than a boat that doesn't, and therefore can turn much faster when the skeg is up. This can be very nice, and I know of one instructor that takes advantage of this whitewater-esque turning radius while teaching classes. But it is my experience that no matter how careful one is, the skeg will occasionally jam with a pebble and cause a major headache. The extra commitment to learning good skills to paddle a ruderless skegless boat "well" is perhaps a barrier to some. But it doesn't take too much skill to be comfortable if the boat is well behaved. I have always been impressed with Mariner boats in this respect. While I have paddled some skegged boats that I really liked, I have yet to like a boat that needed a rudder to behave well. I think paddling is much more graceful and fluid when it is done without a rudder. Cheers, kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Diane McNally Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 9:14 AM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Hi all, I would appreciate any thoughts and comments re your experiences with the utility of a skeg or rudder, or no rudder or skeg. A paddling friend is considering buying a boat soon. My friend has paddled the current designs Solstice and Solstice GT as day rentals. Tried one that had no skeg or rudder on a recent demo night, and rented the CD Caribou for a day paddle (a hard chine boat with skeg). There is a Necky demo night this week and the dealer may be able to get a Looksha IV to try. I suggested trying the Arluk 1.9 (soft chine) but this dealer says the Arluks are basically out of production and not readily available. Thanks ~ Diane Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 17:20:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28317 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28312 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23919 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00888 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27914 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27962; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:16:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kattenbo_at_greennet.net Received: from chmls20.mediaone.net (chmls20.mediaone.net [24.147.1.156]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22910; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kattenbont4.lotus.com (h005004ca5765.ne.mediaone.net [24.168.182.15]) by chmls20.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6O0GMc05449; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:16:23 -0400 (EDT) To: Strosaker_at_aol.com Cc: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build M9_05202001 Beta 2 May 20, 2001 Message-ID: <OF303B2656.3225933D-ON85256A93.00015342_at_greennet.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:16:51 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Client on Keith Attenborough/CAM/Lotus(Build M9_05202001 Beta 2|May 20, 2001) at 07/23/2001 08:17:59 PM, Serialize complete at 07/23/2001 08:17:59 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Two thoughts: 1) Paddle what works for you. What works for someone else doesn't count. 2) Chris Duff did his solo circumnavigation of New Zealand's South Island in a skegged Romany Explorer. Keith ---- North Shore Kayak Instruction, Inc. NDK Romany Explorer, red over white Greenland "Home-builts" (various) Strosaker_at_aol.com Sent by: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net 07/23/01 07:13 PM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net cc: Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above In a message dated 7/23/01 2:23:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sh_at_actglobal.net writes: > The Gulfstream has a real tendency to broach in a following sea. The skeg > helps eliminate that as well. > > Everyone, I've paddled alongside a British kayak with the adjustable skeg deployed, and I watched it broach terribly for hours on end in tight following seas. It was being paddled by a very experienced and skilled paddler, Jim Gabriel, who at the time was wishing he was paddling my North American kayak, which was equipped with a rudder. While he had to make multiple corrective strokes to get back on course after each broach, all I had to do was step on the rudder pedal. A skeg may reduce your broaching some, but you are still going to broach, and since the skeg is improving your tracking, it is also making it harder to turn back on course. I don't mind paddling a skegged kayak 10 miles, but when it comes to 20-30 miles days, you better believe I am going to have a rudder and that it will be deployed, even on a calm day. All of those corrective strokes, even properly performed, can tear your body up over long distances. Duane Who has owned ruddered, skegged, and tracking device free kayaks. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 17:33:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03763 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03758 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net (mail4.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.203]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06136 for <PADDLEWISE_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d40.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.105]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6O0Wlg67945; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010723204129.523f11fa_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:41:29 To: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com>, "'PADDLEWISE_at_PADDLEWISE.NET'" <PADDLEWISE_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A SPY AMONG US In-Reply-To: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9CF_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg . com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 05:42 PM 7/23/01 -0400, Rick Sylvia wrote: > >If you recall a month or so ago, I wrote a pseudo trip report entitled "The >Psycho Duck". If you are new and don't recall it, you can find it on Wes >Boyd's web-site (I haven't asked permission to point to it, so I didn't >list his site address). Anyway, just when you thought it was safe........ http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm A good story, too. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 17:48:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07232 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07225 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15291 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.83.d5af0c8 (17379) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83.d5af0c8.288e1f76_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:46:46 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/23/01 4:39:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org writes: > The question should not be, "do I want a skeg or a rudder?", but rather the > proper question you should ask is "does the boat that I want require a > rudder, skeg, or neither?". > > Everyone, No matter how well designed a kayak is, in a following sea, especially a quartering one, you are going to be broaching in the waves. I used to have a Pygmy Queen Charlotte, hardchine, rudderless and skegless, and it behaved beautifully in the wind and chop, and it tracked well and was easy to carve turns in. However, like any other boat, in a following sea, especially a quartering one, it broached. After three hours in a quartering following sea one day, I had a sore waist from edging my kayak and a sore shoulder from sweeping with the paddle to try to keep pointed in the right direction. I recently read a book about a couple who paddled the inside passage with Matt's rudderless kayaks, and on at least a couple of occasions in the book, they mention being repeatedly broached in a following seas. Don't get me wrong. I don't like kayaks that are rudder dependant, which is why I like the Necky Arluk much more that the Necky Looksha II and III, but that rudder can make a bad day much more pleasent. I heard Chris Duff say himself that there were some days in his circumnavigation of the south island of New Zealand when he wished he had a rudder, but he also said that because he is a purist, and a few other reasons, he still doesn't have one. He didn't carry a GPS for the same reason. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 20:21:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22587 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22582 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:19:18 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02061 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.c5.13ab29ff (3874) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c5.13ab29ff.288e432b_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:19:07 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 29 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/23/01 5:52:38 PM, anomad_at_bendnet.com writes: << I have found that my desire for a tracking aid increases exponentially with how out of shape I am. >> I know of very few boats for which a rudder is actually a "tracking aid". Skegs and rudders are usually designed to help manage high winds and weather-cocking. In some cases they are needed to turn as well but rarely for tracking specifically. Most folks I run into that have tracking issues have an imbalance between their left and right side strokes. Our low-tech approach is to paddle white water boats at speed and learn to keep those straight. It doesn't take long to learn to balance your stroke this way. Of course this is only one opinion, I have little doubt that other folks have other methods they prefer. Jed (Speedlump) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 20:37:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28345 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28340 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15378 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06227 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27999 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17722 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:00:38 -0700 (PDT) From: RWMCT_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19956 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RWMCT_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.f5.ccc39f5 (3311) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <f5.ccc39f5.288e3ec9_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:00:25 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 140 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Re: rudder or skeg. Duane's post about logging big miles with a rudder gives me pause, as I have never liked the way they look and figured that their position way out on the back of the boat would leave them out of the water too often. Clearly there is a lot to be said on this issue. My two cents: get one or the other if they are offered! My boat (Arctic Hawk) has neither. It carves turns well, so I am able to steer it fine if there are at least small waves around. But when it is windy but calm (because of little fetch) it is more difficult, and I find myself leaning a lot just to correct. When it is windy in shallow water the lean does not seem to catch and carve, and it is a real pain. And it does tend to broach in following seas. I would never put a rudder on it but I do wish it came with a skeg. I do not camp out of it, so the lost space would not be missed. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 20:47:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01435 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01430 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (rly-ip02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.160]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22507 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tot-mtc-tc.proxy.aol.com (tot-mtc-tc.proxy.aol.com [64.12.105.131]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA21061; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thinpad (ACA423B4.ipt.aol.com [172.164.35.180]) by tot-mtc-tc.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id f6O3bQx21599; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004301c113f1$b5586600$8809fea9_at_thinpad> From: "Sidney Stone" <snstone_at_email.msn.com> To: <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B5C5826.8525.1A3FFB8_at_localhost> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Self Rescue Practice and unpleasant surprises Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:35:20 -0400 Organization: Microsoft Corporation X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Apparently-From: SNStone_at_aol.com Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi ... Regarding both the trapped paddler (aka hand of God) rescue and the scoop rescue with the hard chine boats. When initiated the trapped paddler rescue, you may want to consider first pushing down on edge of the victims boat closest to the rescuers boat. For example, if I was rescuing someone and their kayak was to my left, I would push down on their boat with my right hand while reaching over the boat for either the cockpit rim or their body with my left arm/hand. The pushing of the boat helps rotate the boat and avoids the two kayaks from "locking" and limited boat rotation. This technique could also be used for the scoop rescue. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 21:11:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09991 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09985 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10101 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d28.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.93]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f6O4Bao63544 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010724002014.27974af4_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:20:14 To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Beaver Pond In-Reply-To: <004301c113f1$b5586600$8809fea9_at_thinpad> References: <3B5C5826.8525.1A3FFB8_at_localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It was utterly still when I woke up, and rather gray. I looked outside the tent, and discovered fog so thick that I couldn't see the couple hundred yards or so across the tiny lake where we were camped. We were at . . . well, I'm not going to say exactly where, except to say that it was in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, at a long-time friend's hunting camp, where we had been invited to stay for a few days. It was miles from any paved road, and there was never a whisper of traffic noise, nor very little of any outside man-made noise at all, except for the two or three times a day when we could hear a car on the woods road perhaps a quarter or a half mile off. But this morning, there wasn't even that. It was incredibly still, a cool, wet bit of reality that quickly faded into a gray nothingness. I thought about turning over and going back to sleep, since no one else was stirring. It would have been tempting to get up and make a cup of coffee and a bit of breakfast, but I didn't want to wake my companions -- it was awful early, and besides, the little lake was calling me. In a few minutes, I'd pulled on my clothes, and was down at the lakeside, where I'd left my kayak the night before. A sea kayak may have been a little much for a lake that was at best a half mile long, but it was there and it was the work of an instant to slip off the cockpit cover that had kept the dew out of the seat, slide the boat soundlessly into the water and be on my way with only a couple easy paddle strokes. In only a minute or two, at creeping speed, I'd left behind the vague smear of civilization represented by the single little shack of a hunting camp and the tents in the tallish grass of the yard. The stillness, the remoteness, was incredible, and the fog limiting the visibility only enhanced it. From my spot, drifting along one shore of the little pond, I could just make out the indistinct darkness of the pines on the far sides of the pond, their tops almost lost in the liquid haze of the thick fog. The flat water was a perfect reflecting surface, that made the world seem double and half upside down, though I could look into the water near the boat and make out details of the bottom of the lake such as fallen logs, rocks, and weeds. Much of the shore was covered in low bushes, only a foot of two high, every leaf dripping with the morning dew. Down near the end of the lake was the first sign of activity of the morning -- a brown head churned across in front of me, leaving a wide arrowhead of wake behind it, a beaver out about its business. I rested my paddle, and waited to see what it would do. The beaver crossed a boat length in front of me, then thought better of it, turned around, and headed back toward some hidden hideyhole. Near the shoreline, it dived with a splash and a thwack of its tail, the loudest sound I'd heard all morning. The beaver dam wasn't far away, and it was only the work of a paddle stroke or two to move my drift near it. As I neared it, I could see that the dam was responsible for at least a couple feet of the depth of the lake. I could see the land slip away below the dam, and knew that the next little lake along this stream was several feet below. It was a little surprising to see the beaver dam, since the piney shores of the tiny lake didn't hold a lot of what I would think of beaver food, but as I studied the brushy shoreline I could see where the animals had cleared away tunnels in the low brush to be able to pull limbs and such from farther up the sides of the valley, where there were trees that would make better beaver food. My eyes a little more attuned to observation now, I could look down in the water and see beaver-chewed limbs littering the floor. I was a little disappointed to not find a classic beaver lodge in the middle of the lake, but there were several bank lodges that were less impressive than I had expected, but still clearly were homes to the beasts. I drifted away from the beaver area, just following the shoreline to see what I would see. A few hundred yards away, the twigs of a beaver-felled tree still stuck above the water, denuded of leaves, but now covered in a silken maze of spider web, covered in thousands of tiny droplets of the morning dew. I didn't think much about it at first, as I sat there wondering at the beauty -- but then realized that the gossamer maze was quite a ways from shore for the average spider. I've seen spiders walking on the water in the past, and supposed that the spider that built the structure must have walked out to get it. The spider would miss breakfasting on a moth that lay upside down in the water, still flapping its wings in a desperate attempt to get away from the liquid trap it was in. I thought for a moment about reaching out a paddle to rescue it, but reflected that such things happen in nature, and that some one of the lake's brown trout would soon happen by for a snack. The cycle of life continues, even in such frozen time and space. Slowly, I slid down the lake until I was near the camp, but still didn't hear sounds of stirring, so decided that another slow lap around the lake was in order. At the pace I was going I had seen quite a bit of the lake, things that I might never have seen had I been going faster, but realized at the time that there were so many mysteries and details that a lifetime might not be enough to really know such a place, and that even careful observation would only leave a passing and possibly incorrect impression. I took more time this trip, stopping to study the beaver tunnels, noting that the lodges were more substantial than first appearing, since they were hidden in foliage that presumably wasn't beaver food, and seeing more moths helplessly fluttering against the water, savoring the rare peace of the wilderness at rest. As I headed back toward the camp, it was clear that the fog was lifting a little; if I leaned back and looked up, I could make outdefinite patches of blue sky overhead. I could make out the tents and the cabin, though indistinctly, as I floated offshore like a ghost. Now, I could hear the sound of voices, of a car door closing, and realized that my friends must be up and around. A perfect morning could only last so long, and I'd had my share -- more than I usually get, for an hour and a half of this paddle on such a morning was hard to bring to an end. But, there was coffee and breakfast awaiting, places to go, and things to do. In but a few days, my friends and I would be gone, and the lake and the pines and the beavers and the spiders would be alone and left to themselves, to carry on their parts of the cycle of nature with no man to observe, while I could only carry the wonder of the morning in my mind. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 21:44:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19111 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19106 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.bendnet.com (mail.bendnet.com [206.163.50.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03506 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elkhart (bend36-213.bendnet.com [206.163.36.213]) by mail.bendnet.com (8.11.2/8.11.2/BendNet) with SMTP id f6O4hWD42298 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001f01c113fc$89cec3c0$d524a3ce_at_elkhart.com.elkhart.com> From: "Shawn Servoss" <anomad_at_bendnet.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] WTB:used sea kayak in Oegon Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:53:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Greetings: A friend of mine in Portland area is looking for her first sea kayak. Mostly to be used for day paddles/workouts and perhaps the occasional multi-sport race. Price is a factor, but she would consider a fair price on a range of boats. Boat should suit a very athletic person, although allow her skills a little time to develop. If you have anything or know of an obscure source I might have overlooked please email off list. bulkheads of thanks. shawn ------------------------- Shawn Servoss Prineville, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 21:55:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22318 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22313 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11030 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6O4s4205992 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:54:04 -0700 Message-ID: <000c01c113fc$f9c4dfc0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B5C5826.8525.1A3FFB8_at_localhost> <3.0.6.16.20010724002014.27974af4_at_pop.dmci.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Look, a seal - no, kelp. No.... Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:56:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was out off Macaulay Point just outside the Victoria Harbour, no wind, small swell, sunny. Wonderful day. Several seals out on rocks, a heron on a small island, swallows swooping close to land, the usual mainland commuter float planes arriving and departing every few minutes, helicopters, fish boats, sailboats, big yachts, coast guard rescue boats, whale watching boats of various kinds, small harbour ferries, and me. Just another tranquil day in the relatively small Victoria Inner Harbour ;) I was paddling slowly through a kelp bed off one of several smaller points. I like to do that sometimes in calm water when I know the submerged rock situation. You know the "Look! It's a seal! Aw, no, it's kelp" routine. I was looking at the gleaming kelp bulbs and their streaming fronds when I gently hit one of them, and a startled seal face with big round frightened eyes burst up from the water. With a sudden loud intake of air, the seal made the fastest turnaround dive I have seen. I had bonked it on the head as it rested in the kelp, probably floating there sort of vertically, looking down into the water and thinking or not thinking. Back flippers hit my bow as he / she dived. I was as startled as seal! "I'm sorry!" I called to the the ripples. In this area the last time I paddled there, a large seal hit my boat from behind with some force. Scared me. This is the first time the kelp actually was a seal! I'll watch more closely from now on, and one seal will probably watch more closely too. Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 23:21:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17065 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17041 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08722 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01328 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28063 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04463 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29585 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 20:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id e.c8.17f7a446 (4592) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c8.17f7a446.288e4c0a_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:56:58 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10527 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have a 18'3" kevlar boat that I am storing in a garage not much longer than the boat. The garage door opening mechanism is such that a high diagonal hang is not possible. I currently have the bow supported in a loft and the boat slopes downward and is perched keel to the wall with the stern on a storage bin of about 30" in height. I would like to store the boat in a manner which is best for the boat and which allows me to store and retrieve it without assistance. Any suggestions are welcome before Aug 1. Thanks *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 23 23:21:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18162 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18112 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10505 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02284 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28071 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22530 Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp016.mail.yahoo.com (smtp016.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.113]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11686 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ascend4-136.mauigateway.com (HELO computer) (65.162.32.136) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 04:57:48 -0000 X-Apparently-From: <kayak?argentina_at_yahoo.com> From: "Kayak Argentina" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Beaver Pond Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:59:43 -1000 Message-ID: <MBBBJOFBHJJCBJIOPCDHAECPCBAA.kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20010724002014.27974af4_at_pop.dmci.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Beautiful Wes, Thank you ! Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List Fernando Lopez Arbarello kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Wes Boyd Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 12:20 AM To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Beaver Pond It was utterly still when I woke up, .... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 04:37:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA23614 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23608 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21244 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip46.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.46]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6OBZ3M08521; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B5D5D2A.6F95C5E0_at_pacifier.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:34:03 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Rental: Deer Isle/Brooklin, Maine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Headed to Maine for a visit, and need to rent a single kayak for a few days. Anybody got outfitters to recommend in the vicinity of Deer Isle or Brooklin? We'll be traveling through Bangor, but would just as soon rent closer to where we will be staying. Thanks. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 04:59:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA00012 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00007 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6.maine.rr.com (mail.maine.rr.com [204.210.65.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06128 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 04:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anneb ([24.93.134.15]) by mail6.maine.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:59:19 -0400 From: "Anne Burton" <aburton1_at_maine.rr.com> To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:59:07 -400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Kayak Rental: Deer Isle/Brooklin, Maine Reply-to: aburton1_at_maine.rr.com Message-ID: <3B5D2ACB.15955.1D9CCD59_at_localhost> In-reply-to: <3B5D5D2A.6F95C5E0_at_pacifier.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.oldquarry.com Located on Deer Isle. I visited there last year looking at put-in spots, and it seemed like a good place, nice people. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:08:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA02914 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02909 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout1.nyroc.rr.com (mailout1-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.146]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12812 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from j7lhg01.twcny.rr.com (syr-24-95-168-82.twcny.rr.com [24.95.168.82]) by mailout1.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.2/RoadRunner 1.03) with ESMTP id f6OC6R101112 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010724071805.009ecba0_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: bhansen2/pop-server.twcny.rr.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:25:01 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Bill Hansen <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg/Rudder/None of the above Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I admit to a strong preference for **retractable** skegs and an aversion to rudders, for several reasons. All of my personal boats have had retractable skegs. I either buy them that way or build the skeg into the boat as I build the boat. In conditions up to Bft 5 I've never felt the need for a rudder. Some very good paddlers, far more expert than I, have written that in harsher conditions they like to have a rudder, but I don't have experience with conditions beyond Bft 5. Like others, I've also found that the better my paddling skills the less I use the skeg. I still use it on occasion, but much less than I did in early years. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:10:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03373 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03167 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail301.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13217 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.120.143]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010724121050.DIWN7831.imf01bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:23:10 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002601c1143b$672887e0$8f783dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <c8.17f7a446.288e4c0a_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have my boats suspended from the rafters using a system of pulleys, ropes and scuba weight belts. The belts strap around the boat which is hauled up by the pulleys. Another boat is suspended by two belts attached directly to the rafters but this requires two to operate.. One belt is buckled and the boat is slipped into it, then the other belt is fastened around the boat. The boat is raised by the 2nd person while both belts are cinched tight with the quick release buckle. Cheap, easy and effective. Removing the boat only requires one. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:15:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05519 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05513 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail201.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.141]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18811 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.120.143]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010724121605.DKMQ7831.imf01bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:16:05 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>, "'Paddlewise \(E-mail\)'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Yak Water Sprayers? Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:28:25 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002701c1143c$22d4cfd0$8f783dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <000001c1129b$56814db0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I use a pair of aluminum and nylon camp stools. They are square, not tripods and the seat acts as a sling. I use them both at home and on the road depending on ground conditions. They are sold at Sears, Walmarts, etc. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:20:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA07309 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07269 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf07bis.bellsouth.net (mail207.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.147]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21740 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.120.143]) by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010724122138.DOCF24057.imf07bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Kayak tents Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:33:58 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002801c1143c$e985d520$8f783dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <p04330101b7812642718c_at_[24.132.254.174]> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The choice of tent is completely dependent on paddling conditions. What works in Pac NW would be a disaster here in Florida. For tropical beach conditions I require a tent that has a fly pole that produces a "awning" over the front and back openings so one can have cross ventilation during downpours. Most tents are manufactured in cold climates and flys are designed for cool, damp, rainy conditions. Select you tent based on your habits. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:36:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11587 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11582 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02830 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id FAA01574; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010724082448.017e4238_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:35:35 -0400 To: uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Self Rescue Practice and unpleasant surprises Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <3B5C5826.8525.1A3FFB8_at_localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 05:00 PM 7/23/2001 -0300, uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca wrote: >Last week I tried a couple of new things with friends. Capsized, >stayed in the cockpit and pretended to be passed out. My friend >tried to get me back to the surface by reaching over, grab hold on >my pfd and started to rotate my boat and pulling me to the surface. > Didn't work very well, I don't know if our hard chined boats added >to the problem -rounded hulls may slip easier against each other-, >he could get my head above the surface, but that was it. >Any tips how to do that better? This is the "Hand Of God" rescue. The first time I was shown how to do this (just last year) it proved to be either easy, or impossible. For me it was impossible until I was shown the proper technique. The rescuer comes parallel on the opposite side from the victim. The rescuer leans over the victim's boat and rests his own weight on the victim's boat. Without that resting brace on the boat the rescue is impossible. The victim can be pushed forward, or backward (best, I think) in his cockpit and then is rolled upright by pulling steadily on the shoulders of his PFD. Once the technique was demonstrated the rescue was quite easy. Because the rescue effectively uses the combined width of both boats, your narrow beam, round bottom, etc., are not a problem. Having said all that, I have not found time for a single skills session this year. Uh oh. Time to go. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 05:44:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14421 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14416 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout3.nyroc.rr.com (mailout3-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.168]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09392 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from j7lhg01.twcny.rr.com (syr-24-95-168-82.twcny.rr.com [24.95.168.82]) by mailout3.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.2/RoadRunner 1.03) with ESMTP id f6OCgn511721 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010724071805.009ecba0_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: bhansen2/pop-server.twcny.rr.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:25:01 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Bill Hansen <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg/Rudder/None of the above Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I admit to a strong preference for **retractable** skegs and an aversion to rudders, for several reasons. All of my personal boats have had retractable skegs. I either buy them that way or build the skeg into the boat as I build the boat. In conditions up to Bft 5 I've never felt the need for a rudder. Some very good paddlers, far more expert than I, have written that in harsher conditions they like to have a rudder, but I don't have experience with conditions beyond Bft 5. Like others, I've also found that the better my paddling skills the less I use the skeg. I still use it on occasion, but much less than I did in early years. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 06:55:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05812 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 06:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05800 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 06:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hypatia.unh.edu (root_at_hypatia.unh.edu [132.177.137.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29269 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 06:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w-fagerberg (faculty2-cis489.unh.edu [132.177.46.189]) by hypatia.unh.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6ODslE194473 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Wayne" <wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:57:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] rudders.skegs/nothing Reply-to: wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu Message-ID: <3B5D4689.11611.5038EB_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am a rudder fan. As others have stated as your skills increase you use it less and less. All three options have advantages and disadvantages. I like rudders for days when you are crossing strong currents, in wind or when moving slowly (e.g. to photograph something). You don't need skeg or rudder but it gets real tiresome paddling hard off of one side and cocking your boat hour after hour to counter the effects of wind or current ( how macho do you want to be??). I have also been in currents that I did not want to tip my boat in for fear of capsizing (yeah skill wins out but then....). I like rudders over skegs for the simple reason that it makes turning easier in those difficult conditions (altho no better for straight on tracking) and for boat control when waiting for the precise moment to take a picture (otherwise the boat always seems to drift off line). Also if you have a loaded boat and get into rough conditions a rudder or skeg will make boat control a lot less work and I think a little safer. The big disadvantage of rudders is that they do slow you down a small amount and of course when they are up they tend to make weather cocking a little worse. I rarely use mine but I am always glad it is there when I do need it. With or without it will still be a kayak-- good luck. WRF *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 07:40:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18100 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18085 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29050 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip189.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.189]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6OEdPM18947; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B5D8865.F8961597_at_pacifier.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:38:29 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Twilight Run Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Wes Boyd put up another story yesterday to compare with his Beaver one. It's called Twilight Run: http://my.dmci.net/~wesboyd/kt25-01.htm Recommended. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 07:46:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20799 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20794 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f9.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.9]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05246 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:45:51 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.129 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:45:51 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.129] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:45:51 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F9OqdBPeSQMA9KQdybn00005e2b_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2001 14:45:51.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[55CA7CB0:01C1144F] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have a Libra XT that is about 22 feet long in my standard two car garage. Hanging from the rafters with it are my Perception Sabre [whitewater boat], my bidarka [18 feet long], and my Romany [16 feet long]. The Libra is slung from two loops that are covered with old pieces of rubber hose to give them thickness. The loops attach to lines that go over pulleys in the rafters then through a ring on the wall. The lines then are set up as Z-drags along the wall using carabiners and rings fastened to the wall. They are locked with friction cleats on the wall. I can drop the thing right onto my roof racks and, coming home, lift it right off the car by myself. The boat hangs diagonally. The stern hoisting loop is set through a pulley that is as close as it can be to the overhead door's edge when the door is up and open. This allows the stern to hang well past, but under, the reach of the open door. This has worked for years and, as I keep adding kayaks to the ceiling, the Libra stays closest to the overhead door. My other two hardshell kayaks, the Phoenix Slipper and slalom racing boat, hang on the wall. With real care, the two compact cars actually fit too. No comments, please, about my apparent kayak shopping addiction. I also have a Feathercraft K-1. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 07:58:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24033 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24028 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13168 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:57:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.71.222.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.71.222]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA07117; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002001c11451$5ed1d180$de47f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F9OqdBPeSQMA9KQdybn00005e2b_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:00:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions > I have a Libra XT that is about 22 feet long in my standard two car garage. > Hanging from the rafters with it are my Perception Sabre [whitewater boat], > my bidarka [18 feet long], and my Romany [16 feet long]. SNIPPED > No comments, please, about my apparent kayak shopping addiction. I also > have a Feathercraft K-1. Jim probably also hangs the Feathercraft K-1 bag from the ceiling. Maybe he was a hangman in an earlier life. :-) ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 08:23:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02616 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02611 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02460 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18997 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28248 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01305 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp016.mail.yahoo.com (smtp016.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.113]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA12120 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgate-196.mauigateway.com (HELO computer) (205.166.249.196) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 07:04:18 -0000 X-Apparently-From: <kayak?argentina_at_yahoo.com> From: "Kayak Argentina" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] On-Line again ... this time from Paradise Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:06:11 -1000 Message-ID: <MBBBJOFBHJJCBJIOPCDHOEDACBAA.kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hallo friends, Here I am on-line again. To tell you the truth I've been in "lurker" mode during all this time, but now I switched to "active" again. But there's some important changes in my life these days as I moved ( still don't know if temporary or definitively ) to Kihei, Maui, Hawaii. I don't know how many of you ever had the chance to know here but I can tell you it's amazingly beautiful ... all the landscapes, climates, geographies, or whatever you can imagine just half an hour from home. An the sea ... beautiful, crystal clear, plenty of life .... I am very exited as the island has plenty of possibilities for sea kayaking, and curiously, I still haven't seen any. There are some tour operators who offer kayak excursions for 2 or 4 hours along the coastline and always combined with snorkeling ... so ... no much for kayaking. All of them use sit on tops, most are from Ocean Kayak or Cobra ... and after paddling them for a while ( while working I mean .... :-) ... ) I can only say 2 things ... I don't like them, .... I don't like them at all. ( Please ... this is my opinion expressed as a joke ... I don't want to offend any SOT fan in the list ... ). Yes ... I'm missing my beloved Shark ( Nordkapp ) that I couldn't bring because of the costs ... But I discovered a huge paddling community anyway, devoted to the Polynesian canoe. There are many local clubs and they organize a lot of events along the year. Hey ... oldies ... I have seen men and women of all ages racing this six seater outrigger canoes ... full of energy and passion ... some of them were 68 and older !!!. Another important observation is young and older shared together the fun and the activities ... with mixed crews in some races and encouraging each other. Well, I shouldn't be surprised as they all are obviously young ... despite their ages. Seems to be a nice and friendly community so I'm willing to have the chance to integrate. By the way .... any paddlewiser living in the islands ??? Best regards ! Reporting from Maui ... Hawaii *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 08:25:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02837 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02832 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04478 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19481 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28256 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04492 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26101 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ast (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-7-13.oz.net [216.39.135.141]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA15072; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012101c1141d$d991c260$8d8727d8_at_ast> From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "PaddleWise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: "Matt Broze" <matt_at_marinerkayaks.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sea Kayaks Stolen from near Annapolis MD Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 01:51:34 -0700 Organization: Mariner Kayaks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Mick Baker <mick_baker_at_yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>Tips from John Kuntz on stolen kayaks: 4/22/96/10:54:18 How not to buy a stolen kayak: Go to the sellers home to buy the kayak. Never buy a kayak from someone who wants to meet you in a parking lot or other non descriptive location. If the price is way below market or seems too good to be true, it is, and it's probably stolen. Get the model, colors, and serial number of the kayak. <<<<<<<SKIP> >>>>>>>Be alert to any solo paddlers in your area at night. The thief may paddle another watercraft, such as a sailboard, near the kayak and either tow yours away or temporary leave their craft until it can be picked up later. <<<<<<<< It's kind of funny that this was posted next on the digest right after Jackie's warning about copyright violations from forwarding paddlewise messages. Actually I wrote the stolen boat piece that was attributed to John Kuntz and I sent it to all the local kayak shops (John is one of the shop owners) and passed it out to interested WA Kayak Club members. John apparently published it in his customer newsletter or something and it got to somebody (was it you Andree?) who published it on the web and attributed it to John since no other attribution was given (and that was my desire at the time since I didn't want the thief to know the source of the information if he read it). Anyway Mike could you tell me where and when you got this information you reprinted on paddlewise? I didn't intend for this information to get spread nearly so widely because it describes a way to steal kayaks that makes it very a hard to catch and prosecute the thief and I didn't want to technique advertised too widely for fear it might fall into the wrong hands and create more hard to catch kayak thieves. This is not the typical way most kayak thieves operate. The particular thief operating in the Seattle area back then moved to the S.F. Bay area where among other things he continued to steal kayaks and is presently being held on a high bail waiting for trial on several other non-kayak related crimes committed in CA. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 08:34:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05725 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05720 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11324 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA11681; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:09:32 -0400 Message-Id: <200107241509.LAA11681_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:29:34 -0400 To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions In-Reply-To: <c8.17f7a446.288e4c0a_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 11:56 PM 7/23/01 -0400, ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com wrote: >I have a 18'3" kevlar boat that I am storing in a garage not much longer than >the boat. The garage door opening mechanism is such that a high diagonal >hang is not possible. I currently have the bow supported in a loft and the >boat slopes downward and is perched keel to the wall with the stern on a >storage bin of about 30" in height. I would like to store the boat in a >manner which is best for the boat and which allows me to store and retrieve >it without assistance. Any suggestions are welcome before Aug 1. I've got boats stored in 2 different garages. The garage at my house only has a 7'6" ceiling so I built a freestanding rack on one side. I've got 3 17'+ sea kayaks, a 19'6" surf ski and a 17' canoe on the rack. All boats are easy to get at but the rack takes up a 20 foot by 3 foot space along one side of the garage. In my mothers garage I have 3 18'6" canoes hanging from the rafters. Each boat is sitting in a webbing sling at one end and an old automobile lap safety belt at the other end. I lift one end of the boat into the fixed webbing and slide the boat to the right distance. I then lift the other end between the open safety belt and fasten the belt. There is also a shelf along the wall just below the boats, at the end of the boat I fasten second, so can rest the end of the canoe on the shelf if I need to adjust things or rest when putting up boats. We used to have a 90+ pound canoe that we hoisted to the roof using slings and a pulley system, then a cleat on the wall to hold the lines tight. Be sure you have a backup if you are using the pulley system. We had the canoe fall from the ceiling one day... kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 12:40:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18838 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18833 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f215.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.215]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15553 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:37:18 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.25 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 19:37:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.25] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Hangman Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:37:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F215EVJpjc0D543Tuyl00003ea5_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2001 19:37:18.0404 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CA7D040:01C11478] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jim probably also hangs the Feathercraft K-1 bag from the ceiling. Maybe he was a hangman in an earlier life. :-) ralph diaz Ralph, Anything is possible. My wife says that, whatever else, I must have starved to death in a previous life because I eat so much and never get fat. So a starved hangman..... There's a good story there, if I only knew how to write. The Feathercraft sits in the basement, there is not a speck of space in the rafters of the garage because the skis and snowshoes and the two halves [long story] of my old sprint boat and the deck of an old slalom boat that I want to hang on the wall someday are already there. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 13:17:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00822 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00817 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15300 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28379 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28094 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:08:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08803 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.6a.10fefac0 (3966) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6a.10fefac0.288f2fd5_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:08:53 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club T-Shirts To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-22 19:13:18 EDT, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: << >I'm having a hard time deciding which shirt to wear...without appearing to >choose allegiance to one club over the other....so, I've decided to really >stir things up and wear my PADDLEWISE T-SHIRT! I was at the Great Lakes Symposium for a while this weekend, and had on the only Paddlewise t-shirt I saw. >> And I was sick (almost fully recovered now) and missed the picnic... sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 13:38:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07094 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07089 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:38:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01444 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id i.38.195866c4 (3966); Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38.195866c4.288f36b7_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:38:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions To: jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-24 10:52:33 EDT, jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com writes: << No comments, please, about my apparent kayak shopping addiction. I also have a Feathercraft K-1.>> never fear, Jim...this is part of the 12-step kayak addiction program sandy kramer who also owns a wee fleet *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 13:48:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10163 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10158 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09058 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.33.185046a8 (3966); Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33.185046a8.288f3906_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:48:06 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Argentina/Hawaii To: kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-24 02:28:07 EDT, kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com writes: << Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List >> Fernando....how did that move come about? care to fill us in? I was at a local Argentinian butcher last week and the carnicero (butcher) told me that he didn't want to leave A but things are sooo bad he had to. Same situation in my home town (Caracas/Venezuela). How come Hawaii? Will the name no longer be Kayak Argentina? Are you an outfitter? sounds sooooo interesting sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 13:52:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12673 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12668 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:52:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12812 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id i.ea.18aee3a7 (3966); Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:51:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <ea.18aee3a7.288f39dd_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:51:41 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Decoy Hangman To: jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-24 15:47:51 EDT, jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com writes: << So a starved hangman..... There's a good story there, if I only knew how to write. >> Ask Rick Sylvia...he knows how to write stories that are sooo good that they travel through the air waves with unsuspecting results. :) this reminds me of something I learned from PR courses....forget about "off the record" comments. Just remember that whatever you say can and will be used against you! If you've put it in writing it can come back to haunt you. I guess someone will send you a noose. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 13:54:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12853 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12848 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15576 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24990 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28412 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06509 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26902 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12665; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:06:58 -0400 Message-Id: <200107242006.QAA12665_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:27:00 -0400 To: "Kayak Argentina" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] On-Line again ... this time from Paradise In-Reply-To: <MBBBJOFBHJJCBJIOPCDHOEDACBAA.kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 09:06 PM 7/23/01 -1000, you wrote: >I am very exited as the island has plenty of possibilities for sea kayaking, >and curiously, I still haven't seen any. Audrey Sutherland is from Hawaii. She's does solo tripping with an inflatable kayak. She's a regular at sea kayak symposiums. >and after paddling them >for a while ( while working I mean .... :-) ... ) I can only say 2 things >... I don't like them, .... I don't like them at all. Try hunting up a surf ski. http://www.hawaii.com/~twogood >But I discovered a huge paddling community anyway, devoted to the Polynesian >canoe. There are many local clubs and they organize a lot of events along >the year. Hey ... oldies ... I have seen men and women of all ages racing >this six seater outrigger canoes ... full of energy and passion ... some of >them were 68 and older !!!. Another important observation is young and older >shared together the fun and the activities ... with mixed crews in some >races and encouraging each other. Well, I shouldn't be surprised as they all >are obviously young ... despite their ages. Seems to be a nice and friendly >community so I'm willing to have the chance to integrate. http://www.y2kanu.com Looks to have lots of info on outriggers. Some firms there were listed as canoe and kayak but I didn't see much kayak in their content... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 14:09:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16276 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16262 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24552 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6OL83k04773; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:08:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:09:36 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <8715717120.20010724140936_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com CC: jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions In-Reply-To: <38.195866c4.288f36b7_at_aol.com> References: <38.195866c4.288f36b7_at_aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Tuesday, July 24, 2001, at 01:38:15 PM PDT, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 01-07-24 10:52:33 EDT, jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com > writes: > << No comments, please, about my apparent kayak shopping addiction. > I also have a Feathercraft K-1.>> > never fear, Jim...this is part of the 12-step kayak addiction > program I'm just hoping that the 12th and final step is to throw one's hands up in the air and happily succumb to the addiction once and for all. Then go shopping for more boats. To Jim: If you ever find that your boat shopping has left you with too many boats to fit in your boathouse, I'll be happy to "store" some of them for you, as I seem to have room for a few more around here. :-) Perhaps you'll go shopping for one too many Khatsalanos next? Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 14:20:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19768 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19729 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f123.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.123]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02291 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:20:01 -0700 Received: from 63.22.116.40 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:20:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.22.116.40] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Storage Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:20:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F123iyAphwFutJLtosJ0000652c_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2001 21:20:01.0630 (UTC) FILETIME=[663977E0:01C11486] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net To Jim: If you ever find that your boat shopping has left you with too many boats to fit in your boathouse, I'll be happy to "store" some of them for you, as I seem to have room for a few more around here. :-) Perhaps you'll go shopping for one too many Khatsalanos next? Melissa To Melissa: Believe it or not, each boat has a specific and, to me, important purpose that the other boats don't serve. One whitewater boat is just used in the winter to deal with the ice hitting it, for instance [it's the one I got for $100 and is as tough as a boiled owl: the Phoenix Slipper]. I'm truly the luckiest person in the world that I can have a "golf bag" of boats for each kind of paddling. My wife has a horse, so I actually have the cheaper hobby [my pony costs next to nothing to maintain.] And, so far, the Khatsalano is a bit small for my folding-boat purposes, which will involve extended trips in places like Greenland. But your kind offer is appreciated in the spirit in which it was made! Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 15:44:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15925 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15859 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08978 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 15:44:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-211.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.211]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16875 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:44:11 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B5DF9BE.31852732_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:42:06 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] kayak storage suggestions References: <38.195866c4.288f36b7_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jim Wrote: > > << No comments, please, about my apparent kayak shopping addiction. Jim to only way to save yourself from this terrible addiction is to give all your boats awayimmediately! My shipping address is ............... Bob Alaska > > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 18:48:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11719 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11714 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22006 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18132 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA28525 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08798 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15219 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (wt-d6-138.wt.net [208.211.141.138]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08083 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:38:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B5E22DD.A5BA3C8B_at_ckpro.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:37:52 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rudders.skegs/nothing References: <3B5D4689.11611.5038EB_at_localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I vote for a non-rudder design boat. I started out paddling a Sea Lion with a rudder. After > the first 6 months I began practicing more advanced skills and locked the rudder up. The boat > handles well enough with out the rudder. I've seen problems arise out of reliance on a > rudder. For instance: > 1. They break at inopportune times. > 2. They become intangled in kelp and mangroves. > 3. Even when placed in the locked up position, the foot peddles are mushy compared to a > rudderless design, causing your skills to suffer. > 4. Rudders cause drag on the stern and slow the boat. > 5. In sea conditions it's like a dagger coming down. Try holding on to the stern with a > rudder in the surf ! > 6. Practicing skills with a group, you constantly have to watch out that your not raming > other paddlers with the thing. > > I now own a boat called the "Sultan" by Azul Sea Kayaks (new model) with a retractable skeg. > I have rarely needed the skeg down to prevent weathercocking but the designer tells me it > could come in handy in certain conditions. It is completely adjustable from an inch to full > out, about 4". I couldn't be happier. My opinion - it works. Regards, Chris > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 20:56:00 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21225 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21220 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22843 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([12.72.23.179]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010725035531.XVMK12706.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net_at_default>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 03:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> From: "Gerald Foodman" <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net> To: <anomad_at_bendnet.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:56:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I find myself in strong agreement with Strosaker. Even in light conditions with a boat that handles very well and doesn't weathercock, after long hours it is just more tiring to do leans and sweeps. More so in confused conditions. It is not that one needs a rudder, it is just that it saves a bundle of energy no matter how skilled you are and how good your boat is. However, if you have more fun in a rudderless boat, take pride in your skills and enjoy the aesthetics and purity of no rudder, then go ahead. I have both and enjoy both. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 24 22:55:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27770 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27765 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16696 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-240-171.s425.tnt1.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.240.171] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15PHcx-0003nY-00 ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:54:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3B5E5FDE.152E0E7A_at_erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:57:50 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Tibensky <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage References: <F123iyAphwFutJLtosJ0000652c_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net James Tibensky wrote: > > To Jim: If you ever find that your boat shopping has left you with too > many boats to fit in your boathouse, I'll be happy to "store" some of > them for you, as I seem to have room for a few more around here. :-) > > Perhaps you'll go shopping for one too many Khatsalanos next? > > > But your kind offer is appreciated in the spirit in which it was made! > > Jim > I don't know Jim, I saw the glint in her eye... -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 00:00:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16873 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16842 Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00421 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6P6xvx03608 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:59:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> In-Reply-To: <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:58:07 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Don't forget quartering and following seas, throw some wind into that and you've got a party. Rudder or at least a skeg comes in handy. -P At 8:56 PM -0700 7/24/01, Gerald Foodman wrote: >I find myself in strong agreement with Strosaker. Even in light conditions >with a boat that handles very well and doesn't weathercock, after long hours >it is just more tiring to do leans and sweeps. More so in confused >conditions. [SNIP] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 06:14:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13681 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13676 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f204.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.204]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25552 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:14:00 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.128 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:14:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.128] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:14:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F2048Ua8d9Ee4zadTMV00007133_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2001 13:14:00.0777 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB6A2B90:01C1150B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gabriel L Romeu wrote: No comment, but a question. Is this genetic, communicable, or a result of trauma? It would be a really fine way of 'reviewing' kayaks which would allow a bit of qualifying the reviewer- explain the reasons/uses for the different boats in your fleet and which ones you would like to own to round it out. I spend a bit of time before every outing deciding on the boat I will use based on conditions, location and expected performance, and a few times thought "it sure would be nice to have...". Me: The addiction for me really was the result of trauma. I know you were kidding, but I had polio at age one that caused my left leg to not develop [no working muscles from the hip down] and I was taught to swim before I could walk as a way of getting muscle movement without carrying weight. Chicago had a Polio Swim Club in those days. So water became my medium of freedom, a place where I was equal. I swam competitively and played water polo until I discovered paddling. The guys who introduced me to kayaking were Hungarians who raced sprint boats before they came to the US. They communicated their addiction to me by telling me that I could probably make the US team if I worked hard enough. Suddenly the lack of leg muscles was an advantage because I am missing about twenty pounds that other people my size would have. And I made the US team. I, too, would really like to have a forum for knowing what boats people have and what it is they like about them and what would make the perfect boat for them. In my own situation, I use the Sabre for running whitewater. I have never paddled the newer generation short boats, but a person whose opinion I trust says they are better than my "old school" Sabre. I like speed and I enjoy upstream paddling, so the Sabre suits. I've used it on every kind of whitewater from the Grand Canyon, Gauley and Ottawa to the Upper Yough, Madawaska and Tellico. It's edgy, which is like a slalom boat, so it didn't throw me off when I raced slalom. And the edges give good, snappy control. The slalom boat is my every day boat. I live near an Illinois mud stream with no rocks and very little current. The slalom kayak weighs 11 kilos [lots of patches], so it's a pleasure to carry and to paddle. I still run gates a few times a week even though I quit racing in 1994 because I get shoulder pains if I paddle only in a straight line a la sea kayak. One day a week I use a canoe paddle only and one day a week I use my Inuit paddle, just to use different muscles. The Slipper is a fibreglas boat that is very strong, I use it in the winter when ice is on the river and it's so cold that I want to wear booties. The slalom boat requires bare feet, it's so tight. The bidarka I built in a class with Superior Kayaks. It's a true rocket and takes waves like no other boat I've ever paddled. And I love paddling a traditional boat just for the feel of the history. Since it was built to fit my dimensions, it is very responsive to leans. The Feathercraft is for going places where boats aren't easily available and for really long trips where the extra room is nice. I also like its feel in waves and its speed. The Romany is my weekend camping boat, I go on the Misissippi River once a month. I also like it for paddling with other people because, at 16 feet, it's a little slow. All my racing has left me with a hamster mentality - I just can't be comfortable going slow. This boat makes it easier, especially with a single bladed paddle. It has a day hatch, so I use it for extended bird watching also, the camera and binoculars are easy to reach and the boat has room for water, lunch and so on. My wife uses the Romany when she paddles a single. It tracks really well, no skeg or rudder, and I have never had weathercocking problems even in a gale. It does broach in waves but it recovers reasonably well. It would be a pain to paddle for a long time in following waves, I think. The double, the Libra XT, is my social boat. I've gone on many trips with friends who don't have sea kayaks and with my wife where she would not want to paddle a single and have to keep up with me. It has also been handy for introducing people to the sport. By paddling behind me they can more easily copy my technique. And they have less fear because the thing is so stable. It is also fast. My wife and I have no trouble keeping up with a champion marathon C-2 that trains on the same stretch of river that we do. The only thing I would like that I don't have I will be building this Fall: a skin on frame Greenland kayak. The bidarka is too long to carry easily and too deep to do static braces in. I'm trading it in to Superior Kayaks and taking their Greenland boat building class. I think this will complete my fleet (for now). So there's my life and boat fleet all in one, rather not so interesting, story. Anyone else care to tell about their boat(s). We really can have a support group! Hope you're still awake, Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 07:24:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04991 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04986 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15079 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gothmog (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6PEOSF13693 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:24:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c11515$c98297c0$0cf6fea9_at_gothmog> From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:26:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I would like to provide a counter point to those who say a rudder is essential in quartering seas. It may not be as essential as you think, provided you are paddling the right boat. I've specifically tested my Arctic Tern for tracking in quartering seas in moderate conditions, 25knots, three foot chop. It tracked just fine in all quartering directions, though I didn't paddle this way for more than half a mile. Three questions for the rudder advocates though... Rudders create drag, some say as much as 25% drag when actively turning the boat. Isn't this also a factor on long trips? Rudders have a nasty habit of lifting out of the water when surfing a wave, because the stern can be lifted so high off the back of the wave. I've seen photos of even small waves doing this. Can you explain how a rudder prevents a broach when it is not even in the water? On steep waves, the boat will often broach no matter how skilled the paddler, at this point doesn't a rudder become a liability that will increase the chances of a capsize? Just some ideas for thought... Cheers, Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 07:30:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06865 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06821 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18285 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip25.ast7.pacifier.com [66.43.11.25]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6PEUGM21216; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B5ED7B9.6CA5CAAD_at_pacifier.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 07:29:13 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks References: <F2048Ua8d9Ee4zadTMV00007133_at_hotmail.com> <3B5ED600.9E19EE5B_at_pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net James Tibensky wrote: > So there's my life and boat fleet all in one, rather not so interesting, > story. > Anyone else care to tell about their boat(s). We really can have a support > group! Jim's story is more flavorful than mine. Won't stop me, though. <g> My main machine is an Eddyline Wind Dancer, circa 1993, the second I have owned. The first was a heavily used one that I restored and then sold to fund part of the purchase of the current WD. We call the WD "The Cargo Barge," though not to its face, because it carries everything, nice for the one-week and two-week trips we take. Being broad and stable, it is a great platform for bird watching and goofing around. Of course, it is a slow boat, but it fits me (like Wes Boyd, I am a larger-than-life guy, and need that extra skoosh of room in the cockpit region). There's a little sporty job (Pygmy Osprey Standard) hanging in the garage that I use for day trips and other jaunts when I want to travel fast and light. At 38 lbs and 15.5 feet, it is a nimble thing. Fun in rough water. Built it back in '96-'97, as an antidote to the evening visit to the pub. This one is the funnest boat to paddle I own. Fastest, too. The other Eddyline is a yellow and white Sea Star, vintage 1998, that is narrower and longer than the WD, and quite a bit faster. My SO dubbed it "Sunny Side Up" for the yellow deck. That's her boat, but it only gets used on rare trips when we travel in singles together. Our 1996 Folbot Greenland II is a workhorse for longer trips when we paddle tandem, and lovely for its stability and grace. It is slow, but has been modified to handle rough conditions. I'd call this my wilderness boat: dependable and capable. At only 17 feet, it is short for a touring double, and gains its capacity from girth. (Kinda like humans: to hold all that icky stuff inside, we can be long and thin or short and girth-ful!) Last one is a Pygmy Osprey Double I built last winter. At 20 feet, and a few inches narrower than the Folbot, it is a faster, sleeker craft. It has only seen one long trip so far, but I suspect it may replace the Folbot for trips to the wild. It is fun to paddle, and, like the other Pygmy, lovely to look at for folks addicted to wood structures. We are still learning how to pack this thing, and have to put some lighter stuff (sleeping pads, tent) on the deck to make it work. The space between the two cockpits is ample, and leaves the stern and bow open for re-entry if we spill. The greater ease of paddling opens up longer trips for us Is that it? Well, maybe ... though the hot sale Folbot has right now is tempting me to add a folding single to the stable. Where's that 12-step program when I need it? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 08:18:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20622 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20617 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22131 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-242-193.s193.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.242.193] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15PQQN-0002C0-00 ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3B5EE3F9.58CF6538_at_erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:21:29 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Whilden <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> <001a01c11515$c98297c0$0cf6fea9_at_gothmog> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kevin Whilden wrote: > > I would like to provide a counter point to those who say a rudder is > essential in quartering seas. It may not be as essential as you think, > provided you are paddling the right boat. I've specifically tested my Arctic > Tern for tracking in quartering seas in moderate conditions, 25knots, three > foot chop. It tracked just fine in all quartering directions, though I > didn't paddle this way for more than half a mile. Oddly, I haven't had a problem in my Romany as well. It does react a bit, but it is so easy to correct (seems to do it intuitively if a boat has intuition), that I haven't deployed the skeg (yet). Correcting also seems extraordinarily 'reactive' with a chop that seems to lift a good potion of the boat out of the water. I do not generally do long trips (with an end goal in mind) but rather spend a lot of time playing, so a really straight track may not be as important. I had considered pouring epoxy into the rudder mechanism of my Baja to eliminate the 'mushy' feeling, but the salt corrosion provided the service, and the glass boats pretty much replaced it. Far be it for me to to say what is best for me has any application to anybody. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 08:32:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24695 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24659 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01391 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6PFTb204028 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:29:38 -0700 Message-ID: <003801c1151e$ef6413c0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> <001a01c11515$c98297c0$0cf6fea9_at_gothmog> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:31:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It's always interesting to read the informed comments that come from personal experience on this list. As someone said in email, "Ask 12 paddlers what they think and you will get 15 opinions" :-) Thanks for the responses! I know the thread has a life of its own now ;-) Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 08:44:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29413 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29407 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13004 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id IAA09890; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010725110705.01822d40_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:38:31 -0400 To: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg / Rudder / None of the above Cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <001a01c11515$c98297c0$0cf6fea9_at_gothmog> References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kevin, Being firmly on both sides of this issue (having recently sold my Chesapeake Light Craft, equipped with a rudder, and built a rudderless Pygmy Coho) - In quartering seas the rudder relieves some of the stress in my wrists and forearms. This is good compensation for a slight extra drag. Paddling 6 degrees off course will add 10% to total distance, and in quartering seas without a rudder you're off by at least 6 degrees most of the time. So the small amount of energy wasted by gentle use of the rudder really is made up by tracking a truer course. If you paddle in rough water and wind at every opportunity, forget this, because your wrists and forearms have adjusted to constant correcting strokes. The only time I still wouldn't mind a rudder on my Coho would be in wicked quartering seas. After a very full day keeping up with a couple of guys much faster than me (they had rudders, I didn't, by the way) I was worn down a bit by quartering seas, winds gusting to 28kt, motorboat wakes, and all that. Rudders, used properly, are often an asset. When the sea is really crappy they can be very helpful in keeping your nose (or tail) to the wind. In really rough conditions, yes, the rudder can be out of the water for a few moments. But your paddle is out of the water a few moments, too. The combination of the rudder and paddle gives you more steering options. Frankly, I've never been comfortable edging the boat to bring me into the wind; my rudder made this unnecessary. Now I'm pretty comfortable using a combination of edging and correcting strokes. Regarding surfing, I would never use a rudder while surfing of any kind. When I had a rudder I locked it away while still in safe water before any surf landing. Last thing you want is a rudder flailing away if you dump, or sticking in the gravel while you are starting to broach. Rudders do interfere with self-recovery. A cowboy mount is next to impossible; rolls are much more difficult. Rumor has people being whacked with them but I've never heard it first-hand. Bracing is much different if you have sliding foot pedals; you have to push with both feet at once but only bring up the "correct" knee. Helping someone else is interesting; normally you can offer someone a bow or stern to help them up, but with a rudder you would best stick to the bow. "Get that thing away from me," one paddler said at a practice session on San Francisco Bay. But the worst sin of the rudder has rarely been stated here - I have a 130 foot carry around my house, up a small hill, to get the boat from the basement to the truck. Without a rudder it isn't too bad, solo, but carrying the old Chesapeake with the rudder was a bear. That extra few pounds really makes a difference on land. -jerry. At 07:26 AM 7/25/2001 -0700, Kevin Whilden wrote: >I would like to provide a counter point to those who say a rudder is >essential in quartering seas. It may not be as essential as you think, >provided you are paddling the right boat. I've specifically tested my Arctic >Tern for tracking in quartering seas in moderate conditions, 25knots, three >foot chop. It tracked just fine in all quartering directions, though I >didn't paddle this way for more than half a mile. > >Three questions for the rudder advocates though... > >Rudders create drag, some say as much as 25% drag when actively turning the >boat. Isn't this also a factor on long trips? > >Rudders have a nasty habit of lifting out of the water when surfing a wave, >because the stern can be lifted so high off the back of the wave. I've seen >photos of even small waves doing this. Can you explain how a rudder prevents >a broach when it is not even in the water? > >On steep waves, the boat will often broach no matter how skilled the >paddler, at this point doesn't a rudder become a liability that will >increase the chances of a capsize? > >Just some ideas for thought... > >Cheers, >Kevin > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 08:51:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01822 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01785 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16752 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26929 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28767 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12234 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp012.mail.yahoo.com (smtp012.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.32]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05681 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 02:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgate-131.mauigateway.com (HELO computer) (205.166.249.131) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 09:58:57 -0000 X-Apparently-From: <kayak?argentina_at_yahoo.com> From: "Kayak Argentina" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Argentina/Hawaii Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 00:00:48 -1000 Message-ID: <MBBBJOFBHJJCBJIOPCDHAEDGCBAA.kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <33.185046a8.288f3906_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks for the welcome back and for asking about my new life desition ... and as the "topic" is a little (very) "off-topic", I'll try not to extend too much. Sandy is absolutely right with the main reason ... Argentina is been in a huge recession from the last 6 years, and getting worst. Working is not dignifying any more as sallaries are not enough to sustain a normal life. And when you have to sacrifice your medical service ... car ... hollidays ... even sodas become a luxury item ... then life is not "normal" any more. But without even notice it Sandy brought probably the best example ... in the land of stakes and barbiques, butcher was a wealthy profession, and if even a butcher had to leave .... After working for seven years for a multinational company (Hewlett packard Argentina) and ten as self employed, founding a transportation company, manufacturing kayaks, founding and running a kayak school and co-funding 2 kayak associations with many members, organizing nation wide events, trips and expeditions, even working as a free-lance production manager in the film industry ... and working for "Alan Parker" in the making of "Evita" ... among many other things ... I found many ways to make money to loose it later by investing in my country. Very frustrating actually. The second good reason ? Violence, as working is not good any more, youngs from poor families have turned into steeling, if you ad drugs and alcohol, then you get killing for pennies. Situation known in Caracas from long time ago (unfortunately) but new in Buenos Aires. So, in sinthesys, I am 35 years old, frustrated, tired, I want to have children but I can't afford that, and I don't want them to grow up in a place like that. All this put togheather made me study the possibilities of migrating to another country with a more stable economy and peaceful environment. USA won, but Canada, Australia, and New Zeland gave a good fight. Why Hawaii ? Because I have a friend that came here one year ago and he did real good. Because its one of the most beautifull places in the world. Because its summer all year round. Because its part of the USA but don't suffer all the problems related with drugs and violence as the mainland. .... and because I had to go somewhere !!! ... :-) My first job here was as a guide for a local kayak operator. But after a couple of weeks I quit. This tours have little to do with real kayaking, as they use sit on tops mainly to take people to remote beaches where they can snorkel and swim. To make a comparisson I felt like a first class cheff cooking burgers for Mc.Donalds ! ... But as I said in my former post, sea kayaking is not properly developed here ( I still can't believe it ) so you will no longer here about " Kayak Hawaii " ... just give me a couple of monthes .... My plans for the future ? well, I'm still convincing my girlfriend to come ( which is not easy ! ), but it took me only a month in the island to find a good job in the construction business, with a good salary too. People is nice and lovely and I am making new friends. And the island itself exceeded all my espectations. "Hope" is part of my vocabulary again after a long, long time ... so my next plans are working hard , save money, and pay for the lawyers to get the permits and become a legal resident ( which, again, is not easy !!! ). So this is my story so far. It took me more than 6 months to make the desition, and here is no easy anyway. Leaving a whole life behind to start over again is not for everybody. Thanks again for showing interest and ... ... by the way .... .... any expert in immigration on the list ? .... ;-) Have a good paddling ! Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List Fernando Lopez Arbarello kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com <mailto:kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 10:48 AM To: kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Argentina/Hawaii In a message dated 01-07-24 02:28:07 EDT, kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com writes: << Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List >> Fernando....how did that move come about? care to fill us in? I was at a local Argentinian butcher last week and the carnicero (butcher) told me that he didn't want to leave A but things are sooo bad he had to. Same situation in my home town (Caracas/Venezuela). How come Hawaii? Will the name no longer be Kayak Argentina? Are you an outfitter? sounds sooooo interesting sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 09:40:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15855 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15818 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23006 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6PGdpl13220; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:39:51 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330102b78501ff8eb6_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <3B5ED7B9.6CA5CAAD_at_pacifier.com> References: <F2048Ua8d9Ee4zadTMV00007133_at_hotmail.com> <3B5ED600.9E19EE5B_at_pacifier.com> <3B5ED7B9.6CA5CAAD_at_pacifier.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:38:00 -0500 To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >James Tibensky wrote: > >> Anyone else care to tell about their boat(s). We really can have a support > > group! > My fleet is shrinking. Since I recently moved Europe my main boat has become the Feathercraft Khatsalano (regular), we'll it will be once it gets here. It's on a ship. Kind of like one of those Russian dolls, a boat inside of a larger boat. Prior to this my main boat was a '96 Current Designs GTS. It's for sale, so if anyone wants it, let me know! Great boat. I've done a lot of customizing and reinforcing (some of that forced). I think this is definitely a good boat from tripping as it hold quite a bit, and tracks like a beat on a mission. I also have a Necky Arluk IV. I got this at an outfitters cleaning house sale. It was one of the old guides boat. I really like this boat. The finishing and detail isn't as nice as on the CD, but the boat holds tons and has a great hull form. This is a really fast boat. It also combines good tracking but is also very responsive to leaning. Also have the "loaner" boat, a Wilderness Systems Sealution (rudderless). Also selling this boat. Bought this bought with a friend (and Paddlewise lurker) from another Paddlewise paddler when *he* was cleaning out his massive fleet. Also got a nice kevlar Wenonah Sundowner 18 (to match our fiberglass version of this same boat). I also have my boat of shame - a stitch & glue that I have been working on for six years. My problem (we'll, now I'm on a different continent so I have a really good excuse) is that I have no place to work on the boat, especially in the winter when epoxy tends not to cure in the -20F temps. What would I get? I like a bunch of boats that I wouldn't mind adding to the shrinking fleet. I keep thinking about building a Pax 19 - a really stripped down version to use on my training paddles on the Mississippi (past tense that is). I also like the NDK Romany Explorer, but I hate the hatch size, maybe get some of those larger oblong hatches on one. The Valley Aquila is also really nice. A lot of boat though, but I wouldn't mind one as a big tripping boat. I really like the Current Designs Extreme, but have only paddled it once, that might make a good tripping boat. I keep thinking about picking up a cheap/used RPM for surfing. Oh, and some kind of big old barge or something to put all the boats on. That's be cool. Time to start buying lottery tickets. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 10:21:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29598 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29593 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25566 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id r.47.e6c639e (4410); Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47.e6c639e.28905a1b_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:21:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Argentina/Hawaii To: kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-25 12:00:37 EDT, kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com writes: << But as I said in my former post, sea kayaking is not properly developed here ( I still can't believe it ) so you will no longer here about " Kayak Hawaii " ... just give me a couple of monthes ....>> I thought the way to make money is find a need and supply it! Seriously, Fernando, perhaps this is a niche you can fill. I think "Kayak Hawaii" has a very nice ring to it. :) thank you sooo much for giving us the details Sandy Kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 10:38:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03230 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03225 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07503 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id q.df.180a1535 (4410); Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <df.180a1535.28905dd7_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:37:27 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks To: patrick_at_patrickmaun.com, dkruger_at_pacifier.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-25 12:46:47 EDT, patrick_at_patrickmaun.com writes: << My fleet is shrinking. Since I recently moved Europe...>> having read Fernando's transcontinental saga...how about giving us yours, Patrick? Is this a temporary move? What kind of work are you doing? What are your impressions of .....(um....Holland, is it?). Done any paddling? Is it easy to meet people? <<Feathercraft Khatsalano (regular), we'll it will be once it gets here. It's on a ship. Kind of like one of those Russian dolls, a boat inside of a larger boat. >> fabulous description...so easy to visualize sandy kramer who is always interested in the personal side of things :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 11:01:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11403 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11362 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25529 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id LAA15547; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010725135412.017f7cc0_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:01:02 -0400 To: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks Cc: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <p04330102b78501ff8eb6_at_[24.132.254.174]> References: <3B5ED7B9.6CA5CAAD_at_pacifier.com> <F2048Ua8d9Ee4zadTMV00007133_at_hotmail.com> <3B5ED600.9E19EE5B_at_pacifier.com> <3B5ED7B9.6CA5CAAD_at_pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 06:38 PM 7/25/2001 -0500, Patrick Maun wrote: >>James Tibensky wrote: >>> Anyone else care to tell about their boat(s). We really can have a >>> support >> > group! >I also have my boat of shame - a stitch & glue that I have been working on >for six years. My problem (we'll, now I'm on a different continent so I >have a really good excuse) is that I have no place to work on the boat, >especially in the winter when epoxy tends not to cure in the -20F temps. As mentioned in an earlier posting, I sold my wooden Chesapeake Light Craft, and built a Pygmy Coho, a 17 foot wood stitch and glue boat. I really like this boat. It fits me extremely well. No matter where I paddle this boat in New England I get compliments. One day I got 7 different people asking about it. (Finish your boat, Patrick. The project kept me sane, more or less, through the winter here.) I paddle a 17 foot cherry ribbed fiberglass canoe (Navarro Loon) as well. I recently took my first trip in this, a mellow float down through the Saco River and some of its tributaries, with my teenage son. Next addition to my fleet: A lighter, smaller canoe, probably a 13 or 14 foot model more suited to mild whitewater. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 12:08:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00478 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00473 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16096 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17426 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B5F19D7.A6142595_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:11:19 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg / Rudder / None of the above References: <200107231754.KAA03019_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <12817.204.124.93.254.995924021._at_mail.bend.com> <006701c114bd$daaf98c0$b317480c_at_default> <p04330100b78480a11833_at_[24.132.254.149]> <4.3.2.7.2.20010725110705.01822d40_at_diablo.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gerald Hawkins wrote: > > Being firmly on both sides of this issue (having recently sold my > Chesapeake Light Craft, equipped with a rudder, and built a rudderless > Pygmy Coho) Having not yet sold my ruddered Sea Lion, having already bought a smooth-sterned Dagger Meridian (which really needs a skeg)... > Rudders, used properly, are often an asset. When the sea is really crappy > they can be very helpful in keeping your nose (or tail) to the wind. Yup > > Regarding surfing, I would never use a rudder while surfing of any > kind. Also yup > Rudders do interfere with self-recovery. A cowboy mount is next to > impossible; rolls are much more difficult. Rumor has people being whacked > with them but I've never heard it first-hand. Definitely no cowboy mounts with rudders (except the Dagger version), but I did not notice any difference rolling the Sea Lion with the rudder up or down. I've never tried rolling the same hull with/without a rudder, so can't comment there. I've never seen anyone hit with a rudder, but I have seen the cable plate edges carve grooves in others' plastic and glass. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 12:16:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03422 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03417 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23174 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [139.142.113.177] (helo=139-142-113-177.dialup.islandnet.com) by mail.islandnet.com with SMTP id 15PU9B-0008eG-00 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:41 -0700 Received: by 139-142-113-177.dialup.islandnet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C11503.7942F140_at_139-142-113-177.dialup.islandnet.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:15:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01C11503.7942F140_at_139-142-113-177.dialup.islandnet.com> From: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ovens Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:06:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id MAA03418 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Does any one have any information on using ovens? I have tried the Backpacker oven and found that it really doesn't bake too well. Is there anything else out there? Kirby Coastal Waters Recreation www.coastalwatersrec.com Publishers and Distributors of Coast Recreation Maps British Columbia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 12:38:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09582 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09576 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.140]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08645 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default ([24.6.217.67]) by femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010725193623.RGMX27656.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_Default> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003001c11540$55070c20$43d90618_at_vncvr1.wa.home.com> From: "Michael Orchard" <mspadorchard_at_home.com> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Fw: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:30:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In regards to paddling Maui.... I am afraid I don't see your name in your note...but in regards to paddling Maui... About ten years ago I rented a plastic kayak from someone trying to start such a business on Maui...we paddled to Molikini (sp?) and snorkeled about 30 min then paddled back...was a very nice day. My biggest problem was that the spray skirt didn't fit the boat well, and on the trip back we were almost perpendicular to the large swells that developed...waves breaking onto my boat and popping the spray skirt. I pumped it out two or three times and reapplied the skirt, and it just kept popping of, and the boat refilled with the first wave that crashed on me. Had to paddle the whole way back in wind waves crashing onto my boat and the boat full of water...but in the end it went safely. And the work to do so was pretty tiresome. But still...it was a very fun paddle, and with the right equipment and companions, I would do it again in a flash. Have fun paddling in Maui... Michael Orchard Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 14:14:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09919 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09913 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24556 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04570 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28910 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09147 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:32:40 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05680 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.28.18a05e65 (15766) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web32.aolmail.aol.com (web32.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.8]) by air-id05.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID56-0725153229; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:32:29 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:32:28 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] New German Sea Kayak Forum To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <28.18a05e65.289078cd_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This might be of interest to German speaking PaddleWisers: http://www.forumromanum.de/member/forum/forum.cgi?USER=user_114352 (make sure that you transfer the entire URL to your browser address line, i.e., including the part that may have been moved to a second line!) Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 14:16:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10027 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10008 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25283 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04705 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28924 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15842 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24343 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.127.1f2c53f (15882) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web32.aolmail.aol.com (web32.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.8]) by air-id07.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID79-0725155807; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:58:07 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:58:07 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] German Paddling Scene -- Some Pictures To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <127.1f2c53f.28907ecf_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Just for a glimpse of the other side of the pond ... http://www.marukusu.de/redlib The first set of pictures shows scenes from a coastal trip to the North Sea island of Spiekeroog (mixed company of folders and rigid boats). The second set contains some nice shots of kayaks (mostly folders) on rivers and canals, including waiting for passage through a lock among other recreational river traffic. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 14:28:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13309 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13304 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03434 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06405 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28980 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18926 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:09:28 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02230 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.108.31874ba (15883) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web34.aolmail.aol.com (web34.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.10]) by air-id07.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID710-0725160915; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:09:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:09:14 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] More German Folding Kayak Pictures To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <108.31874ba.2890816b_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net And some more folding kayak pictures from a meet near the German city of Gaienhofen: http://www.evkirche-hoeri.de/faltboot/faltboottreffen.html (again, make sure that the entire URL makes it to your browser address line!) Click on the underlined blue numbered captions for the pictures. Some are of people and most interest to the people who were at the meet, a lot of nice shots of folding boats in action, too. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 19:02:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07898 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07893 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29891 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-242-135.s135.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.242.135] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15PaSw-0003Ix-00 ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:01:30 -0400 Message-ID: <3B5F68DC.EED2B7E5_at_erols.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:48:28 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Tibensky <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Storage/Addiction to Kayaks References: <F2048Ua8d9Ee4zadTMV00007133_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My most recent boat is a Nordkapp which requires a bit of restoration before putting it in the water. It was too cheap and seems to be vintage 70's which would be ideal in case I open a museum...We will see how it paddles next year. Previous to that, my wife and I ordered Romanys after she had an inspiring talk with Nigel Dennis about color options. We had a bit of experience paddling the boats as they are quite popular here. After a bit of outfit modifications, it turns out to be the boat for iffy conditions, teaching and play. I described it on another list as a boat that has an intuitive sense of direction- it will go where you think it. An incredible deal on the net offered by one of our illustrious posters gave me the oppurtunity of the FR Silhouette. I had admired the boat for specs, looks and reputation, not the most justifiable reasons for buying a boat, but we are talking addiction. Ends up being an amazingly fun boat, fast and responsive on edge. If it is a distance day- perfect. bit of a weathercock, but it has a skeg and someday I will deploy it. My wife got a kevlar VAlkyrie in her 'keep up with the gabriel' mode though actually she had admired Betsie Bay a long time for it's rather sublime feel (and look to be sure) on the water. It is a boat I haven't had as much experience with as I would like. It paddles with it's own unique personality and I would like to experience it in more of a variety of conditions. I built a Northbay which has numerous positive attributes but enough negative that the Silhouette covers excactly what I was looking for. If I had more time, I would work on it a bit as I think there are ways that much could be done. I can't say that it is the fault of the boat design, I did extensive modifications which didn't change hull profile but changed weight distributions (mostly top heavy). I started with a plastic Baja which was a fine learning boat (not that all the others aren't being used that way) but fufilled all those needs while being very affordable. there are a few plastic boats that I would like to try like the new DAgger Cordoba, Avocet, etc. If I lived in Avalon and could house the proper fleet, I think that a Coaster would be my choice as smaller than the Romany and for more intense play. It seems to be enough different from the others. Also a whitewater, wave ski and foldable, but haven't pondered them as much fo any direction. Of course, all of this is just my own opinion and should be taken as that. > > I, too, would really like to have a forum for knowing what boats people have > and what it is they like about them and what would make the perfect boat for > them. > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 19:24:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14284 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14268 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f143.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.143]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19039 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:23:43 -0700 Received: from 4.4.165.133 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:23:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.4.165.133] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak for Sale & Rudder/Skeg Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:23:43 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F1437GcYxpU7TkedpNF00006aae_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2001 02:23:43.0832 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDEA9580:01C11579] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My Dagger Sitka is for sale...see detailed 12 pictures at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnsonkw/ Great boat, great condition. Speaking of Rudders/Skegs/None....I too have owned all three and find that the Sitka's integral rudder overcomes many of the typical rudder disadvantages: no obstruction on back deck, it doesn't hang down to entangle kelp or interfere with beach landings when activated, not as much drag to slow you down, more problem free operation with no exposed cables, and most important of all, firm foot bracing on fixed foot pegs while operating rudder with toe-flaps. Not a bad compromise. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 19:25:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14395 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14377 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19726 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [139.142.113.209] (helo=139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com) by mail.islandnet.com with SMTP id 15Papk-0009By-00 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:25:06 -0700 Received: by 139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:23:36 -0700 Message-ID: <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com> From: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com> To: "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ovens Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:20:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id TAA14382 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thank you for your replies about Dutch Ovens. But ? living in the land of Canucks(Canada), I haven't ever seen one in any of the stores. I also have some reservations about having to bring charcoal along to heat up the oven and I very rarely ever have a campfire. Any other suggestions? Kirby Coastal Waters Recreation www.coastalwatersrec.com Publishers and Distributors of Coast Recreation Maps British Columbia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 19:48:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20849 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20844 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:48:03 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06699 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.12f.1eeeed3 (25105) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12f.1eeeed3.2890dedb_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:47:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg / Rudder / None of the above CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/25/01 11:52:27 AM, jhawkins_at_cisco.com writes: << But the worst sin of the rudder has rarely been stated here - I have a 130 foot carry . . .to get the boat from the basement to the truck. Without a rudder it isn't too bad, . . . That extra few pounds really makes a difference on land. >> There are two things I really hate about rudders and neither of them has to do with paddling in a boat with them. One is that it is almost life-threatening to carry the stern of a boat with one and the other has to do with the SEVERAL large gouges dug out of my boat by other people's rudders. As far as paddling with one, I just don't like the mushy pegs. I learned to paddle without one and I get all mixed up when I try to use one. It is like going from an unfeathered paddle to a feathered. I feel more endangered in "interesting" conditions than helped. All my trained reflexes have to be overridden. The toe control type would help me, if I intended to own a boat with a rudder. I have no idea what to do with other paddlers who mess up the cute decals on the bow of my Gulfstream, though. Side grumble: What is the matter with Necky? They put their carry loops EXACTLY where I tear up my wrists trying to carry the stern. The plastic Looksha IV is the worst!I always TRY to opt for the bow when I have to help carry one. They make some of the heaviest, awkward boats! --I'm just grousing about the slashes on my wrist from moving boats last weekend 8^( Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 19:57:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23734 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23729 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14204 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10690 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29100 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25729 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink2-2.onlink.net (onlink2-2.onlink.net [206.108.253.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18545 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bx6q00b (hunt1-11.onlink.net [209.105.215.12]) by onlink2-2.onlink.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6PNkhq06410 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:46:43 -0400 Message-ID: <004f01c11563$df1f4a80$1ed769d1_at_bx6q00b> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107251544.IAA29425_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:44:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kevin wrote: Three questions for the rudder advocates though... > >Rudders create drag, some say as much as 25% drag when actively turning the >boat. Isn't this also a factor on long trips? The drag varies with the design of the rudder. Some stall at low angles of attack and have rather huge amounts of drag. Some properly designed rudders do not stall and have very little drag at typical angles of attack. All bets are off when one turns the rudder too far. Not sure why builders don't install stops at 20 degrees or so to prevent or reduce stalling. The question has more to do with the net result of a rudder. It may have more drag than no rudder at all but it may reduce the amount of effort required to paddle the boat by reducing the effort needed for corrective strokes. In this way one might get a net reduction in effort over the course of a day. Also, keep in mind that a boat designed for use with a rudder may actually have less wetted surface than one designed for use without a rudder and so might have lower resistance than a rudderless counterpart. Sprint racing boats which almost always use rudders for this and other reasons provide a good example of this. > >Rudders have a nasty habit of lifting out of the water when surfing a wave, >because the stern can be lifted so high off the back of the wave. I've seen >photos of even small waves doing this. Can you explain how a rudder prevents >a broach when it is not even in the water? Well, yes and no. Depends upon the wave length and steepness relative to the boat. Keep in mind that the same wave that lifts the rudder out of the water also lifts the stern of the rudderless boat out of the water. One could also ask if that does not reduce the control offered by the hull shape in a rudderless boat. Furthermore, if the stern does not provide the directional stability for a rudderless boat surfing a wave then why can't a ruddered boat can't have the same shape? One could leave the rudder down as it is out of the water anyway with no harm done. > >On steep waves, the boat will often broach no matter how skilled the >paddler, at this point doesn't a rudder become a liability that will >increase the chances of a capsize? Not if out of the water. :-) If in the water it can contribute to the rotational force on the hull and could add to the capsize moment. I cannot recall ever noticing this though. Since most of the broaching force derives from the deeply immersed bow in the opposing flow in the back of the wave in front one has to wonder if the rudder plays a significant role. Particularly once the boat starts to roll and the blade orients at a more horizontal angle to the flow. Nevertheless, it does pose an interesting question and one that one could analyse with reasonable accuracy by calculating the turning moments in a wave acting on the hull at varying relative speeds. Please don't ask me to do it though. %-} Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 20:00:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23913 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23908 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15012 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10995 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29119 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05524 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:59:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26959 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hppav (pool0654.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.228.144]) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29384 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003101c11576$9ac4d680$90e4b3d1_at_hppav> Reply-To: "Patrick Martin" <learnleague_at_earthlink.net> From: "Patrick Martin" <learnleague_at_earthlink.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:59:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In the August 2001 issue of "Canoe and Kayak" Ted Olinger reviewed a variety of small kayaks. He reported that one of the kayaks had a problem with a skeg that was loose and had severe leak in its housing. He went on to comment that skeg housing were "notoriously difficult to seal" . Since I am considering getting a boat with a skeg, I would like to know if many other paddlers have had problems with leaks in their skeg housing and if they have found ways to repair them. Aside from leaks and jambs due to debris, are there other problems with skegs? Patrick Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 20:02:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26433 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26428 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19584 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12526 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29145 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20662 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06065 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com ([65.3.123.150]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010726024604.RZRU3370.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_home.com> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3B5F8484.2D064DB6_at_home.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:46:28 -0500 From: Pam Stalnaker <pamstalnaker_at_home.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ovens References: <01C11503.7942F140_at_139-142-113-177.dialup.islandnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kirby Stevens wrote: > Does any one have any information on using ovens? I have tried the Backpacker oven and found that it really doesn't bake too well. Is there anything else out there? > > Kirby I will briefly de-lurk and say that I love my Outback Oven. We use it for breakfast breads (use a packaged muffin mix), biscuits, cornbread, shortcake for strawberry shortcake made with dehydrated strawberries and Dream Whip (truly decadent on a canoe camping trip), brownies, etc. The only restriction is that you need a stove that simmers well. I've used it on a Coleman Peak 1 but my current stove, a MSR Dragonfly, works much better. Pam in Iowa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 20:14:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29523 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29518 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27689 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CC328613A ([24.13.84.146]) by femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010726031237.SWGE553.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CC328613A> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:12:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c11580$d8d17f50$92540d18_at_CC328613A> From: "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <003101c11576$9ac4d680$90e4b3d1_at_hppav> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:12:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Patrick, I can attest to leakiness and jambing on my Dagger Meridian SK. But the skeg can jam from sea water on the control wire, or the control wire becoming frayed. And as much as I like the skeg, I try to minimize my use of it. Only when the boat is being hit by wind & waves on one side, steadily, will I use it. If you do get one, make sure that you adjust it while paddling; rarely, if ever, do I have mine fully extended. Another problem is that skegs catch onto weeds. And then increase the depth water that you need. Niels Sent: Wednesday, 25-Jul-2001 21:59 Subject: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs > In the August 2001 issue of "Canoe and Kayak" Ted Olinger reviewed a variety > of small kayaks. He reported that one of the kayaks had a problem with a > skeg that was loose and had severe leak in its housing. He went on to comment > that skeg housing were "notoriously difficult to seal" . > > > > > > Since I am considering getting a boat with a skeg, I would like to know if > many other paddlers have had problems with leaks in their skeg housing and if > they have found ways to repair them. Aside from leaks and jambs due to > debris, are there other problems with skegs? > > > > > > Patrick Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 20:18:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29783 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29778 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29939 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CC328613A ([24.13.84.146]) by femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010726031623.SYTI553.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CC328613A> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:16:23 -0700 Message-ID: <001901c11581$5fca6a30$92540d18_at_CC328613A> From: "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg problems Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:16:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Patrick, Oh, and did I mention drag? Under calm conditions, the drag from the skeg is significant. Niels Sent: Wednesday, 25-Jul-2001 21:59 Subject: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs > In the August 2001 issue of "Canoe and Kayak" Ted Olinger reviewed a variety > of small kayaks. He reported that one of the kayaks had a problem with a > skeg that was loose and had severe leak in its housing. He went on to comment > that skeg housing were "notoriously difficult to seal" . > > > > > > Since I am considering getting a boat with a skeg, I would like to know if > many other paddlers have had problems with leaks in their skeg housing and if > they have found ways to repair them. Aside from leaks and jambs due to > debris, are there other problems with skegs? > > > > > > Patrick Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 20:47:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08974 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08969 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21687 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6Q3j1221988 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:45:01 -0700 Message-ID: <007401c11585$ab73a100$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ovens Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:47:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I started today to try to catch up on 2 years of Sea Kayaker that I missed while doing the skool thing, and have got through two from 2000. All the 2001 issues are out of the library. June 2000 features an article on baking devices, and the author, Mary McClintock, has a pretty good opinion of the three she tries: the BakePacker, the Banks Fry-Bake pan, and the Outback Oven. My interpretation is that she has high praise for the Banks unit (www.frybake.com). The article is on the Press link from that url. The unit uses a twig fire on top or solid fuel pellets, and Mary used an MSR Whisperlite stove for the bottom heat. I haven't ever tried to bake on a camping trip so can't comment personally. Diane > Thank you for your replies about Dutch Ovens. But ? living in the land of Canucks(Canada), I haven't ever seen one in any of the stores. I also have some reservations about having to bring charcoal along to heat up the oven and I very rarely ever have a campfire. > > Any other suggestions? > > Kirby > > > > > Coastal Waters Recreation > www.coastalwatersrec.com > > Publishers and Distributors of Coast Recreation Maps > British Columbia > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 21:30:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21169 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21161 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20528 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gothmog (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6Q4RfF20124; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:27:42 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c1158b$98439d50$0cf6fea9_at_gothmog> From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107251544.IAA29425_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <004f01c11563$df1f4a80$1ed769d1_at_bx6q00b> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:29:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise <snip> > > >Rudders have a nasty habit of lifting out of the water when surfing a wave, > >because the stern can be lifted so high off the back of the wave. I've seen > >photos of even small waves doing this. Can you explain how a rudder > prevents > >a broach when it is not even in the water? > > Well, yes and no. Depends upon the wave length and steepness relative to the > boat. Keep in mind that the same wave that lifts the rudder out of the water > also lifts the stern of the rudderless boat out of the water. One could also > ask if that does not reduce the control offered by the hull shape in a > rudderless boat. Yes it certainly would. Good point. I guess this explains why hard chine boats are superior to soft chined boats, right? The hard chines resist the broaching effect, preventing the boat from sliding down the face of the wave.... :) > > >On steep waves, the boat will often broach no matter how skilled the > >paddler, at this point doesn't a rudder become a liability that will > >increase the chances of a capsize? > > Not if out of the water. :-) Of course not... but the rudder is only out of the water momentarily when the boat is pointing forward and perpindicular to the wave. This is the crucial moment in which the broach can be prevented. The rudder will then inevitably enter the water after the broach passes the point of no return. > > If in the water it can contribute to the rotational force on the hull and > could add to the capsize moment. I cannot recall ever noticing this though. > Since most of the broaching force derives from the deeply immersed bow in > the opposing flow in the back of the wave in front one has to wonder if the > rudder plays a significant role. Particularly once the boat starts to roll > and the blade orients at a more horizontal angle to the flow. Nevertheless, > it does pose an interesting question and one that one could analyse with > reasonable accuracy by calculating the turning moments in a wave acting on > the hull at varying relative speeds. Please don't ask me to do it though. > %-} > me neither... after this thread, I wouldn't want anyone to see me paddling a ruddered boat :) Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 22:57:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18494 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18489 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24092 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09149 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29249 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20774 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19062 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-240.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.240]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6Q4NH3250006 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:23:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3B5F9B2D.303F66D7_at_prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:23:09 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 7/27! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] TIME Magazine Cover Story: Summer of the Shark Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.time.com/time/2001/sharks/cover.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Jul 25 23:47:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03622 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03617 Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29088 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6Q6l3l18319; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:47:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330103b785cea352ad_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com> References: <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:43:31 -0500 To: Kirby Stevens <stevens_at_islandnet.com>, "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ovens Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net That seems odd. You might want to check at an old-timey canoe outfitters as they are popular to take into the Boundary Waters and, I assume, must be popular in Quetico as well. -Patrick At 7:20 PM -0700 7/25/01, Kirby Stevens wrote: >Thank you for your replies about Dutch Ovens. But ? living in >the land of Canucks(Canada), I haven't ever seen one in any of the >stores. I also have some reservations about having to bring >charcoal along to heat up the oven and I very rarely ever have a >campfire. > >Any other suggestions? > >Kirby *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 04:16:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA26089 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26019 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Blankibr_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08988 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Blankibr_at_aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.bc.17db6842 (3870) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:16:07 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10512 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Here is another Dry suit vendor you might try. http://www.ossystems.com I have never worn one of their suits but the material is much softer than Kokotat's. I don't know if they do custom fitting and their web page under sea kayaking only lists drytops. I know someone who has their drysuit for kayaking and loves it. No affiliation with the company, YMMV Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 04:59:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08543 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08538 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6.maine.rr.com (mail.maine.rr.com [204.210.65.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07818 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 04:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anneb ([24.93.134.15]) by mail6.maine.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:58:48 -0400 From: "Anne Burton" <aburton1_at_maine.rr.com> To: "Patrick Martin" <learnleague_at_earthlink.net>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:58:23 -400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs Reply-to: aburton1_at_maine.rr.com Message-ID: <3B5FCD9F.17867.81F58F4_at_localhost> In-reply-to: <003101c11576$9ac4d680$90e4b3d1_at_hppav> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Patrick says: "... Aside from leaks and jambs due to debris, are there other problems with skegs? " Here's one potential problem with a skeg: the control line breaks as you are pulling up the skeg. The skeg is left in the down position, and you have a few miles to shore. Ask me how I know this.... :) Lessons learned: (1) if your skeg is controlled by a line, check your line for wear; file away any rough spots on boat where line touches it; always carry spare line; (2) consider a skeg with a control rod next time (different problems); Anne Burton Falmouth, Maine *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 05:04:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11218 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11213 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13798 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-63.210.223.215.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [63.210.223.215]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA09133; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008301c115cb$8050ae00$d7dfd23f_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <Blankibr_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:07:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <Blankibr_at_aol.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes > Here is another Dry suit vendor you might try. http://www.ossystems.com > > I have never worn one of their suits but the material is much softer than > Kokotat's. I don't know if they do custom fitting and their web page under > sea kayaking only lists drytops. I know someone who has their drysuit for > kayaking and loves it. Years ago, I was leading a trip to Bannermann Island on the Hudson just north of West Point (the island shows in any classic photos you may see taken from the heights of West Point looking north). The water wasn't really cold enough for wet or dry suits, at least by the 50 degree cold water threshold we used back then. One fellow had a pair of cast off dress pants and dress shirt and hat. It wasn't like the nylon stuff and paddlewear we had on and seemed strange. When we stopped for lunch and he sat down on a rock, his pants leg cuff rose and revealed a latex ankle gasket! I yelped, "What in the hell are you wearing?" He ripped open his shirt buttons and, like Clark Kent about to transform into Superman, exposed a shiny white dry suit. It was so flexible that he could wear it _under_ clothing! Actually he had to. The material was so soft that he feared it might snag and tear and so the castoff clothing provided protection for the dry suit. It was a new one to me. I had noticed earlier ads for some dry suits of light flexible material coming out of somewhere in Europe and I think it was that and I believe it may have been made by OS from one of those materials. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 06:09:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29938 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29932 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27285 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id o.30.182a3eed (5709); Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id04.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID42-0726090915; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:09:15 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:09:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs To: <aburton1_at_maine.rr.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <30.182a3eed.2891707b_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net << Here's one potential problem with a skeg: the control line breaks as you are pulling up the skeg. The skeg is left in the down position, and you have a few miles to shore. Ask me how I know this.... :) >> I have my shock-cord actuated skeg rigged such that this is avoidable. Even though I would never let my skeg retraction line get frayed! ;-) I've set up the shock-cord that activates the skeg so that it's tensioned by being wrapping around a perimeter line. This way the shock-cord is only tensioned when I need the skeg and I have more slack to be able to make repairs (although rare) when neccessary. The only challenge is when I forget to tension the shock-cord and am forced to explain to a ruddered boat owner while at sea how to tension the line. But more importantly, since we all know that proper skeged boat owners *never* use their skegs, the lines that control them should never fray in the first place. The biggest problem with skegs is the requirement to understand (and be able to explain to ruddered boat owners) the physics of operation. And that, to such a degree, so as to be acceptable to the Paddlewise subscibers. So signup for that adult enrichment course on hydrodynamics before you even consider a skeged boat! I launch my boats stern first, checking the skeg operation before boarding and have never suffered a jammed skeg. So I don't understand the jamming issue at all. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 06:12:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02302 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02297 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01508 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6QDCSV39912 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:12:29 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6QDCRT98442 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:12:27 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:11:54 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] RFI Grey owl paddle fiibreglass ferule replacement Message-ID: <3B5FECEA.12964.2E8224_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, Maybe here somebody knows a answer. Yesterday evening I broke the fibreglass ferrule of a Grey Owl take apart paddle. There is a split in the mama part between the three locking holes. Papa is OK . Before you mail me to explain "mama" and "papa" to you think about it a bit longer ;) Don't want to mess around with it by trying to glue the crack, replacement would be better and safer. Now, does anybody know where I can get/order a replacement fibreglass ferrule. Grey Owl seems to be unrepresented on the web, but maybe there is a phone number. Hope somebody here can give advice, also how to do the replacement. Right now I would carve the old one down with the disc grinder and glue the replacement in place with some epoxy. Cheers Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 07:31:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25685 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25648 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nile.intac.com (root_at_nile.intac.com [198.6.114.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26248 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust155.tnt1.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.21.167.155]) by nile.intac.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ktb) with SMTP id KAA11514; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007b01c115df$36e5ba80$9ba7153f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> To: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>, <Blankibr_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> <008301c115cb$8050ae00$d7dfd23f_at_rdiaz> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:28:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > It was a new one to me. I had noticed earlier ads for some dry suits of > light flexible material coming out of somewhere in Europe and I think it was > that and I believe it may have been made by OS from one of those materials. > I think that material was called "Avilastic" or something like that... Charlie Walbridge used to sell such drysuits by a German manufacturer for use on whitewater. IIRC it was actually pretty strong stuff, but after a few years began to develop small pinhole type eaks. --Very popular at the time but both the manufacturer and the material seem to have gone by the wayside... Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 08:23:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11754 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11749 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05168 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6QFLn218000 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:21:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003001c115e7$04381ee0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> <008301c115cb$8050ae00$d7dfd23f_at_rdiaz> <007b01c115df$36e5ba80$9ba7153f_at_com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ballast for day paddles ? Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:24:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Me again. I should have this paddling thing all figured out again in a few months ;) I'd appreciate suggestions for ballast arrangements and securing it that have worked for you. I'm thinking CD Caribou or CD Extreme, for my friend who is contemplating a boat purchase soon. Curiously, I didn't find anything about those famous Canadian Ballast Rocks among all the good ideas at the Evangelical Paddler's Supply Store ;-) And, I've got to get one of those Paddler's Cats! What I do: My Arluk 1.8 is more stable for day paddles if I use some ballast, as are many of our boats. It's just fine when loaded for a couple of weeks out :-) For day paddles, I use two square gallon water jugs wedged in side by side behind the stern bulkhead (right behind the cockpit). I stuff a dry bag, usually the one with spare clothes, in there crosswise and then my old hockey bag / gear bag lengthwise to wedge it all in. Hopefully. I have a dromedary type water container on the floor of the cockpit with me, and one more gallon jug against the forward bulkhead in the forward storage compartment, wedged in there with the food bag and the rest of the stuff I wind up taking along even on a day paddle. I read the archived suggestions re how to secure gear in the cockpit and will get on it this summer. I have left that longer than I should have. Diane McNally Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 08:53:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20927 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20922 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28300 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13700 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29448 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17159 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailin.kie.de.heidelberg.com (mailin.kie.de.heidelberg.com [195.244.234.132]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25662 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 05:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hdkexmbx01.kie.de.heidelberg.com (kiems01.kie.de.heidelberg.com [10.51.102.37]) by mailin.kie.de.heidelberg.com (8.11.0/SHE//SHE Solaris 8.11.0-0.1) with ESMTP id f6QCLte24667 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:21:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by kiems01.kie.de.heidelberg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) id <3L0C61KJ>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:21:55 +0200 Message-ID: <26BC87123528D411857700A0C9CF7C7801E726EA_at_kiems01.kie.de.hei delberg.com> From: "Weber, Mathias-Henry 1254 PPW-P1" <Mathias-Henry.Weber_at_de.heidelberg.com> Reply-To: m-h.w_at_web.de To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:21:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > -----Original Message----- > > Patrick says: "... Aside from leaks and jambs due to debris, > are there other problems with skegs? " > > Here's one potential problem with a skeg: the control line > breaks as you > are pulling up the skeg. The skeg is left in the down > position, and you > have a few miles to shore. Ask me how I know this.... :) > > Lessons learned: > > (1) if your skeg is controlled by a line, check your line for > wear; file away > any rough spots on boat where line touches it; always carry > spare line; > (2) consider a skeg with a control rod next time (different problems); > .. another problem: You launch from a beach sitting in the boat watching the surf for a promising lull. Seeing it you work yourself into the water and paddle like hell to get behind the surf zone just to recognize that part of the beach has settled in the skeg box preventing it from proper operation. No big deal if you travel in a group but you can do the exercise a second time if you are alone. Mathias *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:00:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21488 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21483 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ripnet.com ([206.47.98.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00882 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from recorder.ca (A1-P186.RipNET.com [207.236.51.187]) by mail.ripnet.com (8.12.0.Beta12/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6QFxm6U013595 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3B603DBA.516BB97B_at_recorder.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:42 -0400 From: John Waddington <waddinj_at_recorder.ca> Reply-To: waddinj_at_recorder.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RFI Grey owl paddle fiibreglass ferule replacement References: <3B5FECEA.12964.2E8224_at_localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ulli, try the following. I know that the URL works, and I have phoned them in the past at this phone number. John GREY OWL PADDLE Ltd. 62 Cowansview Road Cambridge, Ontario N1R 7N3 Phone: (519) 622-0001 Fax: (519) 622 0723 http://home.swipnet.se/~w-28650/greyowl.htm Ulli Hoeger wrote: > Now, does anybody know where I can get/order a replacement > fibreglass ferrule. Grey Owl seems to be unrepresented on the > web, but maybe there is a phone number. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:00:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22698 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22675 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02596 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15357 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29465 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08924 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18213 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA17174; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:14:32 -0400 Message-Id: <200107261314.JAA17174_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:34:42 -0400 To: "Patrick Martin" <learnleague_at_earthlink.net> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs In-Reply-To: <003101c11576$9ac4d680$90e4b3d1_at_hppav> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 06:59 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote: >Since I am considering getting a boat with a skeg, I would like to know if >many other paddlers have had problems with leaks in their skeg housing and if >they have found ways to repair them. Aside from leaks and jambs due to >debris, are there other problems with skegs? The skeg that came with my VCP Pintail is warped, and came warped. I've never bothered to contact Great River Outfitters about getting a replacement since I rarely use the skeg. I was unsuccesful in my one attempt to straighten it. On the positive side I haven't had trouble with leaking or jambing. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:12:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26892 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26885 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hypatia.unh.edu (root_at_hypatia.unh.edu [132.177.137.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11524 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w-fagerberg (faculty2-cis489.unh.edu [132.177.46.189]) by hypatia.unh.edu (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6QGBEE403361 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Wayne" <wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:14:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] ballast Reply-to: wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu Message-ID: <3B60098A.20493.E50EE1_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I find the 3 gallon water bladders sold by REI act as great ballast- in addition to either providing drinking water or fresh water to wash salt off the boat afterwards. I put them behind my seat or in the cockpit near the front bulkhead. Since they are very flexible they allow the water to settle at a low level in the boat thereby lowering, to some extent, the center of gravity and 6 gallons (approx 48 lbs) of water seem to have a good effect on those choppy days. Wayne F *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:36:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03423 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03418 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from howler.tri.sbc.com (howler.tri.sbc.com [205.173.58.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29960 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbctri.tri.sbc.com (sbctri [144.60.1.10]) by howler.tri.sbc.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6QGacj07170; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:36:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jedi.tri.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sbctri.tri.sbc.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f6QGZwB12556; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:35:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jjoy_at_localhost) by jedi.tri.sbc.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f6QGa2B29103; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:36:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200107261636.f6QGa2B29103_at_jedi.tri.sbc.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ovens To: stevens_at_islandnet.com (Kirby Stevens) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:36:02 -0500 (CDT) Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net (paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net) In-Reply-To: <01C1153F.4CFA9CA0_at_139-142-113-209.dialup.islandnet.com> from "Kirby Stevens" at Jul 25, 2001 07:20:33 PM From: Jennifer Joy <jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kirby Stevens said: > > Thank you for your replies about Dutch Ovens. But ? living in the land of Canucks(Canada), I haven't ever seen one in any of the stores. I also have some reservations about having to bring charcoal along to heat up the oven and I very rarely ever have a campfire. > > Any other suggestions? You can find a specimen at MEC, one of my favorite stores. I'm sure they would be around at other outdoor places, but it doesn't sound like what you need. http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=134981&FOLDER %3C%3Efolder_id=164439 (watch the wrap) jennifer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:38:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03602 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03597 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00692 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:38:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip100.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.100]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6QGbNi13556; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B604702.D832D48D_at_pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:36:18 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] ballast References: <3B60098A.20493.E50EE1_at_localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Wayne wrote: > I find the 3 gallon water bladders sold by REI act as great ballast- Diane, I think you are about the same weight as a lady who used two MSR bladders (10 Litres/ca. 20 lbs each) as ballast on a trip with me two years ago. She claimed it made her Eddyline Sea Star invulnerable. Must have, 'cause she did not get toppled when a boomer went off under her, and the guy next to her did topple. I think one was behind her seat, and the other may have been forward of her feet, in the cockpit. Needless to say, neither was secured, and would have been a hazard if she had capsized. I've had good luck with 3M 3532 polyurethane adhesive to secure D-ring mounts to the inside of my kayaks to hold stuff in. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:42:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06116 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06111 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04727 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25134 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29512 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200107261649.JAA29512_at_qajaq.myers.intelenet.net> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ballast for day paddles ? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> > Curiously, I didn't find anything about those famous Canadian Ballast Rocks > among all the good ideas at the Evangelical Paddler's Supply Store ;-) And, > I've got to get one of those Paddler's Cats! Gee, you're right. Among all the goodies listed at the Evangelical Paddler's Supply Store, there are *no* Canadian ballast rocks! 8-O ( http://www.paddlewise.net/topics/pwponder/winters3.html ) I think we need a request form. :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:50:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07715 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07678 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09970 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6QGmlh19506 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:48:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:50:24 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <1663437308.20010726095024_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs In-Reply-To: <30.182a3eed.2891707b_at_aol.com> References: <30.182a3eed.2891707b_at_aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 06:09:15 AM PDT, SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com wrote: > I launch my boats stern first, checking the skeg operation before > boarding and have never suffered a jammed skeg. So I don't > understand the jamming issue at all. I'm trying to imagine this stern first launch into steep breaking surf. How do you turn a long boat around quickly enough to then break through the surf and be on your way? I've found that when launching from a beach into constantly breaking surf, the *only* chance I have at a successful launch is to be bow first into the surf from the beginning. Of course, I don't have a skeg to worry about. ;-) Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 09:54:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09348 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09343 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (mtaout.telus.net [199.185.220.235]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14503 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kit6380886a ([216.232.109.86]) by priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with SMTP id <20010726165355.KBSW13768.priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net_at_kit638088 6a> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:53:55 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010726095508.0093c5d0_at_mail.udgroup.com> X-Sender: robm_at_mail.udgroup.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:55:08 -0700 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching Forces Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Winters wrote: >Since most of the broaching force derives from the deeply immersed bow in the opposing flow in the back of the wave in front one has to wonder if the rudder plays a significant role. > If the stern is immersed, with or without a rudder, is not an equal amount of broaching force derived from forward flow on the front of the wave? I think this may have something to do with the size of the wave relative to the boat, as well as the placement of the boat on it. I have had the worst times on short steep waves, like a fish boat wake, with both the bow in the trough and the stern on the crest. If the boat is out of line at all, my Pygmy Coho broaches so fast! I think any area at the stern would be a problem here, although a rudder, turned the correct way, could help keep it in line. Problem is, which is the correct way? If the flow over the rudder is from stern to bow, does it work backwards? Would I have to "counter-steer" to correct? I am not about to find out, as I have no rudder, and like it that way, most of the time. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 10:22:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18218 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18213 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink6.onlink.net (onlink6.onlink.net [206.108.253.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05097 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jwinters (nrba1-40.onlink.net [207.210.99.72]) by onlink6.onlink.net (8.11.0/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6QHMJj93558 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:22:19 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c115f8$2c5623c0$0cd169d1_at_jwinters> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107260347.UAA08997_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:26:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Niels wrote: > > Oh, and did I mention drag? Under calm conditions, the drag from the skeg is > significant. > How much is significant? Skegs can be quite small and decreasing deadwood aft can go a long way towards compensating for their area. As for the trunk slot, I believe (check Hoerner's "Fluid Drag" for drag characteristics of slots and holes) that narrow trunks (say 1/4" or less) do not have a lot of drag particularly aft where the boundary layer is thick and the flow already slowed. Regarding leaking trunks - poorly built boats always have problems. Well built boats rarely have such problems. Buy a well built boat. Skeg trunks built like a proper centerboard trunk on a sailboat will not leak and will fit quite tightly. Yes, you can jamb the trunk with mud and sand. Bummer. But then one usually knows when that can happen and can take a few precautions like exercising more care in landing or launching. Incidentally the Paddlewise web site has a store where you can buy anti-rudder paraphernalia. Look for it under the creative writing section. Jackie, it might be worthwhile publishing ; it to the list for the mouse clicking challenged. Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 10:53:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27644 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27639 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29880 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CC328613A ([24.13.84.146]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010726175328.IMEH24031.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CC328613A> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:53:28 -0700 Message-ID: <002b01c115fb$e70e8e70$92540d18_at_CC328613A> From: "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107260347.UAA08997_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <006f01c115f8$2c5623c0$0cd169d1_at_jwinters> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:53:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John, I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the skeg is extended either most or all of the way. Since my energy output is not constant, it is difficult to get a precise on how much drag is being created. >> Well built boats rarely have such problems. Buy a well built boat. Who makes a well-built boat, w. regards to the skeg box? (A dealer in Bryn Mawr, PA told me that the VCP boats are well made, and Dagger's boats are suspect.) Niels > Niels wrote: > > > > > Oh, and did I mention drag? Under calm conditions, the drag from the skeg > is > > significant. > > > > How much is significant? Skegs can be quite small and decreasing deadwood > aft can go a long way towards compensating for their area. As for the trunk > slot, I believe (check Hoerner's "Fluid Drag" for drag characteristics of > slots and holes) that narrow trunks (say 1/4" or less) do not have a lot of > drag particularly aft where the boundary layer is thick and the flow already > slowed. > > Regarding leaking trunks - poorly built boats always have problems. Well > built boats rarely have such problems. Buy a well built boat. > > Skeg trunks built like a proper centerboard trunk on a sailboat will not > leak and will fit quite tightly. Yes, you can jamb the trunk with mud and > sand. Bummer. But then one usually knows when that can happen and can take a > few precautions like exercising more care in landing or launching. > > Incidentally the Paddlewise web site has a store where you can buy > anti-rudder > paraphernalia. Look for it under the creative writing section. Jackie, it > might be worthwhile publishing ; it to the list for the mouse clicking > challenged. > > Cheers, > > John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 10:54:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27673 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27668 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00722 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18165; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:29:58 -0400 Message-Id: <200107261729.NAA18165_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:50:08 -0400 To: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ballast for day paddles ? Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <003001c115e7$04381ee0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> References: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> <008301c115cb$8050ae00$d7dfd23f_at_rdiaz> <007b01c115df$36e5ba80$9ba7153f_at_com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 08:24 AM 7/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >I'd appreciate suggestions for ballast arrangements and securing it that >have worked for you. I'm thinking CD Caribou or CD Extreme, for my friend >who is contemplating a boat purchase soon. I've paddled 2 boats with ballast. both boats were: Aleut MAE 593 replicas (there are line drawings at http://www.arctickayaks.com/LinesAleutMAE593-76.pdf) Boat 1 used 25 pounds worth of dive weights belted to the floorboards in front of the paddler. Boat 2 used 25 pounds of bird shot (lead pellets) sealed in PVC conduit and laid along the bottom, under the seat. Be sure to secure the end caps if you try this. The boats were comfortably stable with the ballast in place. While thinking about carrying water I recently paddled a boat with a "trim tank" It had a 4 or 5 liter reservoir built into the stern so you could add water to the boat to adjust how the boat rode in the water. Similar to a sliding seat concept but using water in a trim tank instead. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 11:18:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04041 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04036 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17044 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muphrid (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6QII8F17108; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:18:09 -0400 From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: "'Niels Kistrup'" <nielskistrup_at_home.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:18:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c115ff$6c978e40$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002b01c115fb$e70e8e70$92540d18_at_CC328613A> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Niels Kistrup wrote: >>I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the skeg is extended either most or all of the way. >>Who makes a well-built boat, w. regards to the skeg box? (A dealer in Bryn Mawr, PA told me that the VCP boats are well made, and Dagger's boats are suspect.) Niels, I remember once paddling a skegged VCP Skerray (the rotomolded plastic variety), where the skeg vibrated quite loudly at normal paddling speeds. I suspect this caused considerable drag. I also noticed a subjective decrease in speed with skeg up vs skeg down. However, I wouldn't hold this against VCP's glass boats. Kevin (...rudderless, skegless heretic) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 11:51:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15308 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15270 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12740 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18386; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:26:27 -0400 Message-Id: <200107261826.OAA18386_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:46:37 -0400 To: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <000001c115ff$6c978e40$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> References: <002b01c115fb$e70e8e70$92540d18_at_CC328613A> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 11:18 AM 7/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >Niels Kistrup wrote: >I remember once paddling a skegged VCP Skerray (the rotomolded plastic >variety), where the skeg vibrated quite loudly at normal paddling speeds. I >suspect this caused considerable drag. The skeg in my VCP pintail also vibrates at normal paddling speeds. > I also noticed a subjective decrease >in speed with skeg up vs skeg down. However, I wouldn't hold this against >VCP's glass boats. hmm, sample of one - so much for their 'glass boats. kirk indecisive rudder, skeg, and skegless kayak owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 13:20:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11654 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11626 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19701 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02941 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA29679 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07628; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:08:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kattenbo_at_greennet.net Received: from chmls20.mediaone.net (chmls20.mediaone.net [24.147.1.156]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10927; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kattenbont4.lotus.com ([66.31.131.149]) by chmls20.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6QK7tB15077; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:07:56 -0400 (EDT) To: m-h.w_at_web.de Cc: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build M9_05202001 Beta 2 May 20, 2001 Message-ID: <OF01B54245.800985C6-ON85256A95.006D251B_at_greennet.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:03:07 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Client on Keith Attenborough/CAM/Lotus(Build M9_05202001 Beta 2|May 20, 2001) at 07/26/2001 04:09:34 PM, Serialize complete at 07/26/2001 04:09:34 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Read somewhere a solution if this is a persistent problem is to carry some (you guessed it) duct tape and a bit of line. Raise the skeg (always a good idea for a launch), run a strip of duct tape over the skeg slot and a bit beyond towards the stern. Fold the "bit beyond towards the stern" to make a tab imbedding or otherwise fastening the line to the tab. Run the line under your deck line so the other end is where you can reach it. Launch, paddle out past the break, pull the line to strip the tape, paddle on. Haven't tried it, but it sounded good on paper. By the by, I've had the skegged Romany Explorer since 1995. The one compartment that has always been dry (so far, knock on a wooded paddle) is the rear compartment with the skeg. I've had jams on occasion, but not so many that I've felt the need to implement a standard work around. I like the Romany's skeg design (control line runs externally on the back deck, skeg held in place by the bungee that lowers it) because it is very field repairable if required. I've "dislocated" it a couple of times -- operator error, not the boat's fault (nice boat, goood boat), but have been able to just snap it back in. Keith ---- NDK Romany Explorer, red over white Greenland "Home-builts" (various) > -----Original Message----- > <snip> .. another problem: You launch from a beach sitting in the boat watching the surf for a promising lull. Seeing it you work yourself into the water and paddle like hell to get behind the surf zone just to recognize that part of the beach has settled in the skeg box preventing it from proper operation. No big deal if you travel in a group but you can do the exercise a second time if you are alone. Mathias *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 18:07:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08853 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08848 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.snet.net ([204.60.203.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27052 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsmith16 (13.232.252.64.snet.net [64.252.232.13]) by mx2.snet.net (8.11.1/8.11.1/SNET-mx-1.4/D-1.10/O-1.7) with SMTP id f6R17Jk10526; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001c01c11637$892b1940$0de8fc40_at_wsmith16> From: "Wayne Smith" <wsmith16_at_snet.net> To: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <bc.17db6842.289155f7_at_aol.com> <008301c115cb$8050ae00$d7dfd23f_at_rdiaz> <007b01c115df$36e5ba80$9ba7153f_at_com> <003001c115e7$04381ee0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ballast for day paddles ? Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:00:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane, I paddle a skegless Caribou, and I've found that a platypus bag (1.5 liter, I believe) full of water is all the ballast I ever need. I put it in the rear compartment, right below the hatch, and it works great. My drybag with my miscellaneous gear, keys and wallet are aft of that. I usually only need ballast if the winds are over 20 knots, as I weigh about 165 lbs, which trims the boat out nicely anyway. I put my crazy creek chair on top of the water bag, and it stays in place even after 10 or 12 rolls. Wayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 19:02:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26613 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26607 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08027 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010727020230.FFUK7699.femail31.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:02:30 -0700 Message-ID: <006201c11640$c7552a90$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <000001c115ff$6c978e40$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:06:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> > Niels Kistrup wrote: > > >I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the > >skeg is extended either most or all of the way. > > I remember once paddling a skegged VCP Skerray (the rotomolded plastic > variety), where the skeg vibrated quite loudly at normal paddling speeds. As someone recently told me (after I commented on the vibration in my Ellesmere's skeg when fully extended) "They all do that!" There's no need to fully extend the skeg. Most folks I've talked to find the skeg works best about half way deployed. At that point, they don't vibrate. I've also wondered why they make fin shaped skegs. I can't see much advantage to that shape. A simple triangle that drops down a bit would do fine, I'd suppose. There are kayaks with skegs like that (Gulfstream?). Mike PS I can't detect any difference in drag with or without the skeg. I have to check the control line to see if it's deployed. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 19:09:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27316 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27311 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:09:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10955 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-241-76.s584.tnt1.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.241.76] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15Px4E-00054u-00 ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:09:30 -0400 Message-ID: <3B60BBAB.87E1E4DF_at_erols.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:54:03 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Winters <jwinters_at_onlink.net> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff References: <200107260347.UAA08997_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <006f01c115f8$2c5623c0$0cd169d1_at_jwinters> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Winters wrote: > > Regarding leaking trunks - poorly built boats always have problems. Well > built boats rarely have such problems. Buy a well built boat. > You wouldn't be saying that if your QCC boats weren't so well built John. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 19:23:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02723 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02718 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.89]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22585 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CC328613A ([24.13.84.146]) by femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010727022255.UZGP1840.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CC328613A> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:22:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c11643$12045be0$92540d18_at_CC328613A> From: "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <000001c115ff$6c978e40$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> <006201c11640$c7552a90$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:23:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Mike, I agree that about the skeg being deployed all of the way. The only time that I do it, is when I'm having lunch; it acts as anchor . . . most of the time. <g> And as far as the fin shape goes, I agree with you. It makes more sense to get the most skeg possible in the water. Niels Sent: Thursday, 26-Jul-2001 22:06 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff > > > Niels Kistrup wrote: > > > > >I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the > > >skeg is extended either most or all of the way. > > > > I remember once paddling a skegged VCP Skerray (the rotomolded plastic > > variety), where the skeg vibrated quite loudly at normal paddling speeds. > > As someone recently told me (after I commented on the vibration in my Ellesmere's > skeg when fully extended) "They all do that!" > > There's no need to fully extend the skeg. Most folks I've talked to find the skeg works > best about half way deployed. At that point, they don't vibrate. > > I've also wondered why they make fin shaped skegs. I can't see much advantage to > that shape. A simple triangle that drops down a bit would do fine, I'd suppose. > There are kayaks with skegs like that (Gulfstream?). > > Mike > > PS I can't detect any difference in drag with or without the skeg. I have to check the > control line to see if it's deployed. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 20:19:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18259 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:19:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18254 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvm.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00296 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) id <01K6FHYH9BS09QVPU3_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:19:10 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz ([132.181.173.162]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) with ESMTP id <01K6FHYE8UQ49PNQIM_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:19:01 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from sandy.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (sandy [132.181.173.22]) by mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25856 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:19:00 +1200 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:18:59 +1200 From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff In-reply-to: <200107261826.OAA18386_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Message-id: <4.3.2.7.1.20010727150625.00c532c0_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: <000001c115ff$6c978e40$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> <002b01c115fb$e70e8e70$92540d18_at_CC328613A> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Have you noticed how most of the complaints about rudders (and some about skegs) tend mainly to be due to poor design? Does that mean no one can design something reasonable in the northern Hemishere? Sloppy pedals, lines on deck, weight, etc., none of these apply to my kayak so why should they have to apply to any others? As for weight, at 18 kg (40 lb) all up including the rudder, I don't think is too heavy for a carry. And carrying, I usually, and often when there are handles available, will lift by the hull rather than use the handle. The only handle to come off in my hand was a Necky (no nylock nuts used but that was the outfitter here). As for distance-made-good versus drag - 20% extra distance per day using a rudder was Paul Caffyn's experience. And no, you don't have to use a rudder, just don't complain about poor design as if it HAD to be that way. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Jul 26 21:13:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05819 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05814 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10707 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21706 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA29913 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29150 Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isis.its.uow.edu.au (isis.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23849 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicentre28.uow.edu.au (unicentre28.uow.edu.au [130.130.132.58]) by isis.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA03037 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:50:55 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20010727134340.006fd038_at_pop.uow.edu.au> X-Sender: ratten_at_pop.uow.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:43:40 +1000 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: [Paddlewise] Night Navigation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net G'day all: I would be interested in views from folks who have tried an internally lit compass versus a standard compass lit by a torch or some other external source on long night crossings etc. So far I have only used a cyalume to give me enough to read a standard compass by on a dark night. Need to upgrade my compass so I see there are internally lit compasses on the market, but none that I can see specifically for kayaking. The key issue for me is preventing sea sickness, that is, head down following a bearing, which even with the broad, even spread of a cyalume or Krill type light, can be an issue on a rock 'n' roll moonless night. I have read John Dowd's comments in his treatise on long distance sea touring, who for those who don't have his book, suggests a cyalume or similar source tucked into your hat band, to give you a nice broad illumination. Conversely, the other issue for me is glare from direct strong sunlight during the day. Has anyone tried the compass types which have sunshields? Cheers, Peter Rattenbury, Wollongong, Australia. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 05:56:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13131 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13107 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from texlog2.texas.rr.com (texlog2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.223]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05200 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 05:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbell.net (cs666878-203.austin.rr.com [66.68.78.203]) by texlog2.texas.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta5/8.12.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id f6RCYYmV018053; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:34:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B6160E2.C39C6038_at_swbell.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 07:38:58 -0500 From: Rob Dee <plz_at_swbell.net> Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-SBI-NC472 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sandy <gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Slipping bars on a Yakima rack... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 02:57 PM 7/18/01 EDT, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > >I currently have a Yakima set-up on my 95 Honda Accord Wagon, but round bars >slip. Plus racks on top of factory-installed racks won't look that great. Sandy, I read that and wondered if you have the same type of Yakima roof rack that I have on my 98 Honda Civic. the towers of my rack lock down with an allan (sp?) wrench and are so tight on the round bars that they have made a permanent indentation on the covering. They lock down so darned tight that I have an 8" length of pvc pipe that I slip over the wrench to give me easy leverage to loosen them. If your rack is the same as mine and the bar is slipping I would mention this at the store where I bought it. It seems like it should be as tight as mine. Best regards, Rob Dee Austin, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 06:17:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA19579 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19573 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04455 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id g.9.18e8edf5 (3972); Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9.18e8edf5.2892c3e1_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:17:21 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs To: melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 29 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/26/01 12:55:15 PM, melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net writes: Jed wrote: > I launch my boats stern first, checking the skeg operation before > boarding and have never suffered a jammed skeg. So I don't > understand the jamming issue at all. Mellisa wrote: > I'm trying to imagine this stern first launch into steep breaking > surf. How do you turn a long boat around quickly enough to then break > through the surf and be on your way? I've found that when launching > from a beach into constantly breaking surf, the *only* chance I have > at a successful launch is to be bow first into the surf from the > beginning. Jed back-peddled: Sorry to have used northeast specific thinking with this global forum. As you may be aware, big, nasty, breaking surf on the East coast normally means 3' maximum, non-booming surf. So some of us just paddle out backwards through the stuff and turn around in the soup just off the beach about 40' off the shore. It's easy enough to initiate the turn in reverse and use the boat's lifelong dreams of broaching to accelerate the turn as a wave picks up the stern. Anchor the bow as the soup hits and the boat has spun around in short order. It feels a bit odd the first couple of times, but the surf breaks on your back and doesn't get into your face and eyes until your complete the turn. The moment of truth comes as your edge hard to turn, poor timing can easily lead to window-shading. YMMV, Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 08:45:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04461 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04455 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22927 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25318 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00081 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22245 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: miles2go_at_konnections.net Received: from mail.domainhosting.net (ip185-25.konnections.com [207.173.185.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22945 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles2go (209.63.122.149) by SQL00 (MailMax 4. 7. 1. 4) with ESMTP id 62490740 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:04:10 -0600 MDT Message-ID: <001501c116ac$ed0b20c0$957a3fd1_at_konnections.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] which web hosts should I consider? Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:00:46 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Nancy and I just returned from a trip and have a group of photos we'd like to put on the net. We were using Photopoint.com but they started charging and have now been bought out. I was a photo major in college and enjoyed photopoint because I could put an endless number of large high quality images out there with brief text narration letting the photos do most of the talking. I considered learning how to do build our own web page but I think having hundreds of photos on a personal site would become pricy. I'm not sure though. I think Photopoint was only going to charge $30 a year. I'd like to know if there are any other photo hosts out there that are first rate. I don't mind paying a modest yearly fee but would want an excellent service in return. I'd like to hear from folks that have used these services or still are. I've seen some list members using such sites as Excite's Webshots among others. Oh, and I'm not looking to get prints or similar products. I just want a place to let folks like you see what Nancy and I have been up to. *As this subject is slightly off-topic, please reply directly to me. Thanks* I'll be happy to reply directly to others interested in the response as well. Cheers! Ron and Nancy Wheeler Eden, Utah *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 09:36:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19588 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19574 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dymwsm05.mailwatch.com (dymwsm05.mailwatch.com [204.253.83.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01647 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MWSC0208.MW4.MAILWATCH.COM (mwsc0208.mw4.mailwatch.com [204.253.83.244]) by dymwsm05.mailwatch.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6RGZrp15952 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:35:53 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by MWSC0208.MW4.MAILWATCH.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:36:21 -0400 Received: from 204.253.83.26 ([204.253.83.26]) by MWSC0208 with SMTP id 00020008d5cf44e7-3389-4350-b4bd-35c06ca24a2e; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:36:21 -0500 Received: from mail0.allegro.net (mail0.allegro.net [204.253.83.50]) by dymwsm11.mailwatch.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6RGZrT06121 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:35:53 -0400 Received: from thoumsx1.teai.ms-exchange.net (frame-torch10.allegronet.net [208.231.135.10]) by mail0.allegro.net (8.11.2/8.10.2/SuSE Linux 8.10.0-0.3) with ESMTP id f6RGV4606814 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:31:05 -0400 Received: by THOUMSX1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <30G4S0RJ>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:35:54 -0500 Message-ID: <D73E05CA2B55D511935700508B5BE9C50EF62D_at_THOUMSX3> From: "Lewis, Roy" <Roy.Lewis_at_novistar.com> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] which web hosts should I consider? Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:33:56 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) HOP-COUNT: 1 X-MAILWATCH-INSTANCEID: 01020008d5cf44e7-3389-4350-b4bd-35c06ca24a2e X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2001 16:36:21.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[44DDCFC0:01C116BA] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ron, I think it is on-topic since part of paddling is sharing the great pictures, and it takes an extra effort for that camera person in the group to mess with the camera and such. I personally liked Photo point because you could also set up a password area, but I didn't know they charged $ now. A friend of mine posts his pics to a group on MSN. Other people don't have to sign up with MSN to view the pics, but if they do then they can get emails whenever pics are added to the group I think. http://communities.msn.com/ Roy =:-) PS: Tomarrow my wife and I will be in Alaska to spend 5 days just the two of us paddling Northwestern Lagoon on the Kenai Pen. I hope to take plenty of pictures so if there are better photo pages out there i would like to know too. > -----Original Message----- > From: miles2go_at_konnections.net [SMTP:miles2go_at_konnections.net] > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:01 AM > To: PaddleWise > Subject: [Paddlewise] which web hosts should I consider? > > Nancy and I just returned from a trip and have a group of photos we'd like > to put on the net. We were using Photopoint.com but they started charging > and have now been bought out. I was a photo major in college and enjoyed > photopoint because I could put an endless number of large high quality > images out there with brief text narration letting the photos do most of > the > talking. I considered learning how to do build our own web page but I > think > having hundreds of photos on a personal site would become pricy. I'm not > sure though. I think Photopoint was only going to charge $30 a year. > I'd like to know if there are any other photo hosts out there that are > first rate. I don't mind paying a modest yearly fee but would want an > excellent service in return. I'd like to hear from folks that have used > these > services or still are. I've seen some list members using such sites as > Excite's Webshots among others. Oh, and I'm not looking to get prints or > similar products. I just want a place to let folks like you see what Nancy > and I have been up to. > > *As this subject is slightly off-topic, please reply directly to me. > Thanks* > I'll be happy to reply directly to others interested in the response as > well. > > Cheers! > > Ron and Nancy Wheeler > Eden, Utah > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 10:07:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28942 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28937 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25347 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA20560; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:42:48 -0400 Message-Id: <200107271642.MAA20560_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:03:02 -0400 To: miles2go_at_konnections.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] which web hosts should I consider? Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <001501c116ac$ed0b20c0$957a3fd1_at_konnections.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 09:00 AM 7/27/01 -0600, you wrote: >We were using Photopoint.com but they started charging >and have now been bought out. My concern with photopoint is their membership agreement requires that you release to them copyright on any material you post to their site, so they can reuse any of your pictures as they see fit. My home Internet account comes with 20 meg of space for a personal home page, which has worked for what pathetic few pictures I've posted. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 10:33:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07615 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07604 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAB14898 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24480 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B61A666.15EA97C5_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:35:34 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] which web hosts should I consider? References: <001501c116ac$ed0b20c0$957a3fd1_at_konnections.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net miles2go_at_konnections.net wrote: > > Nancy and I just returned from a trip and have a group of photos we'd like > to put on the net. We were using Photopoint.com but they started charging I've been using Shutterfly. No fee, captions, accepts lots of images, not owned by Micro$oft. Here's an example: http://www.shutterfly.com/my/os.jsp?i=67b0de21b3173fcd8449 -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 11:28:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23045 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23040 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26664 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.b0.17f54190 (3311) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <b0.17f54190.28930c48_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:26:16 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Another gator story To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net local predators of the not-so-deep kind are really getting active - as the experts say..."a healthy population." today's paper has a story about a family dog (Australian blue heeler - 35 lb cattle dog) who saved grandma from a gator. Fort Myers...85 yoa, goes out to back yard and falls..broken bones...dog lay at her side...suddenly, dog growls and leaves..she couldn't see cos it was dark but knew dog was in a fight. earlier there had been 3 gators (6 - 12') in the canal next to the house...water high from rains...granny could hear dog whining and knew he was getting hurt..then it stopped. when family arrived dog raced to meet them, dripping wet..going wild, barking and jumping, and led them to grandma. granny thought dog had died defending her... dog now recuperating at home licking his wounds. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 12:24:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10975 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10970 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10394 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 18E399BBB; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.91), claiming to be "firewall2" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpde67423; Fri Jul 27 15:23:14 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6P93D>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:22:04 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9E2_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Gypsykayak_at_aol.com'" <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Another gator story Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:22:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net snips .granny could hear dog whining > and knew he was > getting hurt..then it stopped. Don't know much about gators, but my impression is that their skin would be so tough and thick that a 35 pound dog would have little chance of seriously hurting the gator, but would only be able to aggrevate it to the point where it left of it's own free will. Is that true, or could a small/medium dog actually injure an adult gator? Rick Sylvia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 14:10:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12644 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12612 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:10:18 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00714 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.e.103b7f22 (3736) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e.103b7f22.289332b1_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:10:09 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/26/01 8:08:42 AM, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << I yelped, "What in the hell are you wearing?" He ripped open his shirt buttons and, like Clark Kent about to transform into Superman, exposed a shiny white dry suit. >> LOL obviously, just waiting for that opening <G>. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 15:27:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05936 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05931 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (www01.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29802 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 15:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.7.146]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:26:52 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Off to Turkey to paddle in Gallipoli Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:24:15 +1000 Message-ID: <001001c116ea$dec252c0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2001 22:26:52.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C5F2AC0:01C116EB] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net G'Day Paddlewise, I'm off to paddle the coast around Gallipoli - Back in two weeks, All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Jul 27 21:55:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03934 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03929 Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.snowcrest.net (mail.snowcrest.net [209.232.213.212]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11413 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taylsi (stkB112.snowcrest.net [209.78.170.112]) by mail.snowcrest.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA14863 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002901c11721$55ef72c0$70aa4ed1_at_taylsi> From: "Sid Taylor" <tayls_at_snowcrest.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] CUBA , TRAVELING AND PADDLING Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 21:53:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm itchin' to go to Cuba. I would appreciate personal knowledge of any kind regarding travel there, especially as regards information on coastal conditions and weather. Thank You. Sid Taylor *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 00:10:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA13685 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13680 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14249 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-6-27.oz.net [216.39.135.91]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA04087 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:09:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:17:21 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEEEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Kevin wrote: >>Niels Kistrup wrote: >>>I remember once paddling a skegged VCP Skerray (the rotomolded plastic >>>variety), where the skeg vibrated quite loudly at normal paddling speeds. I >>>suspect this caused considerable drag. Kirk replied: >The skeg in my VCP pintail also vibrates at normal paddling speeds. Kevin also wrote: >> I also noticed a subjective decrease >>in speed with skeg up vs skeg down. However, I wouldn't hold this against >>VCP's glass boats. Kirk relied: >hmm, sample of one - so much for their 'glass boats. My own experience has been that high aspect ratio foil shaped skegs are the ones that "Rattle and Hum" (like U2 I guess). I think the VCP skeg is the same blade as their foil shaped C-Trim rudder. Shaped skegs on many other kayaks I tried did this constantly while moving. It would drive me nuts. I don't know how much extra drag might be caused, if any, but I'm afraid on the ocean I'd feel like some electronic shark bait buzzing away as I paddled. I've not seen any vibration or resonance problems with flat plate skegs but I can definitely feel the extra drag when I put them down. I agree with John that if you can cut the deadrise at the stern by using a skeg then you might be able to make up for the extra drag due to the skeg. It's not simply a matter of comparing the relative wetted surfaces though because fins and their junction with the hull are going to create some additional drag even if done in the best possible way (and I'm sure that's not with the skeg somewhat loose in a skeg box). Also, I don't recall seeing any skeg boxes that had only 1/4 inch wide a slot at the level of the hulls surface. I like the placement of most skegs much better than the stern location of most rudders. The flat plate at the stern gets batted around by waves and in steep cross chop that seems to really jerk me around. With most kayaks lifting the rudder out of the water offers immediate relief in that condition. Another condition where I've been very concerned about a stern mounted rudder or skeg has been in steep following seas. The rudder comes out of the water just at the time when the broaching forces are the strongest. If the hull is such that it will broach readily it does and I am going pretty much sideways by the time the rudder blade suddenly plunges back into the water. The resultant tripping force is quite pronounced and one must be well prepared for it or have a reflexive brace down wave that is awfully good or its time to roll. the rudder can be a big help in smaller and smoother waves in preventing broaching but when things really get rough I consider them a real liability in combination with an easily broached hull. using them like you would in smaller waves compounds the problem because if you push the down wave footpedal forward to turn back down the wave you will also be loosening your grip on that sides thighbrace just when you are going to need it most. I have the same problem using the lean to turn technique (which will cut the turning time in half with the average kayak whether it has a rudder or not). As I push the rudder pedal forward the knee I want to bend to lift the kayak into a lean is being straightened. The new solid footpedal rudder systems should help here. My solution was to cross the rudder cables which felt more natural to me anyhow but this isn't going to easily work with somebody well adapted to the rudder pedal configuration on most kayaks. Crossing the cables did end both problems. Somebody said using a rudder more than made up for the extra drag of the rudder blade. I used to race sea kayaks in the fun races around Seattle. I was very competitive and did what I could, equipment wise, to help me win. last thing I would want to do was use a kayak without solid footbraces under the balls of my feet. I'd loose much of the leg power I was putting into my stroke. I'd be adding drag to the kayak as well. I never used a rudder during a race and I always hoped the conditions would be even rougher because that always seemed to give me an advantage. A steep following sea was my favorite condition. All the rudder addicted paddlers would be all over the place when there rudders started waving in the air and I'd be surfing like a demon. Yes it takes more skill to paddle a kayak without a rudder just like it takes more skill to ride a bicycle without training wheels. In both cases it is harder for the person used to relying on their aid to adapt to not having it and learning the techniques required to not need it. That all said there are kayaks that absolutely need their rudders and I'm not advocating that everyone toss their rudders in the garbage. I do think that anyone who waits ten or fifteen minutes (after realizing that their rudder would help them stay on course but before deploying it) will learn a lot in those minutes and will become a much better (and less rudder dependent) paddler as a result. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 00:24:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19217 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19212 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27178 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-6-27.oz.net [216.39.135.91]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07697 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:32:38 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was once asked: Why would you want to paddle a sea kayak without a rudder? My answer was: Well, to me its a lot more satisfying that way. I also prefer swimming without socks, kayaking without a reserve (outboard?) motor (which might even be safer if my primary power plant was to break or run out of fuel, which you seem to think is as likely to break as a rudder but which has never happened to me--although once I finished the last quarter of a 26 mile kayak race fueled by little else than Rock and Roll music.). Why don’t you put a rudder on your river kayak? Surely you use your wave-ski in worse conditions than wind and chop, why don’t you put a rudder on it? Why not install one on your windsurfer? Probably because you do fine without it and don’t need any more complications. I will dispute your statement that it is easier to paddle with a rudder in wind and chop (at least as long as I get to pick the kayak). My experience (and I have gone out in storms that get names attached to them to play in the waves and practice) is that the stronger the wind blows the more trouble a rudder caused me and the less benefits it provided in compensation. This was true even in a kayak that was benefited by a rudder in 5 to 20 knot winds and smaller following seas. I figure you could add little rudders on the back of snow skis and run the cables from your bindings to D-rings by your knees. I’ll bet beginners would find it easier to turn their skis with this invention. I’ll also bet that they would not find it as satisfying (or have as much control) as using body English, edging and unweighting to control the skis and in the long run they will have a lot of bad habits to break when they want to break their rudder habit. I think training wheels on bicycles are a good analogy, they just get in the way of learning. I prefer to keep it simple. One ride in a sea kayak with a rudder is usually enough to convince most expert whitewater paddlers to look for a responsive sea kayak that doesn’t need one. I find most rudders to be over control devices that operate on a delayed feedback loop. They disconnect you from the direct “seat of your pants” control of the kayak. Because of the feedback delay they must be constantly adjusted to hold a (slightly zigzag) course. This is more noticeable the stickier the mechanism, the more slack in the system, the less resistance in the system and more maneuverable the underlying kayak is. Smooth even resistance in the system and a kayak that tracks well but not too stiff works best (but then that’s true without a rudder too). I find rudders destroy the fine control I have with just the paddle and tilting the kayak. For example: I sometimes run my sea kayak through some slalom gates set up nearby, without the rudder I can thread them with less than an inch on each side. With a rudder down I need a whole lot more room between them to avoid hitting a pole. That’s one reason you don’t have one on your slalom kayak, back surfing is another. You are correct, a heavy gear load can aggravate the situations that make a difficult hull need a rudder to deodorize itself. If I always paddled with a heavy gear load there are a lot less kayaks I’d be willing to paddle without a rudder. Most paddlers paddle 90% of the time on day trips with minimal baggage. When they have a gear load they will probably paddle in conditions favoring a rudder less than 10% of the time. You think I should ask them to pay $200 and many other less tangible “costs” so they can save a little effort (and become dependent on it) for 1% of the time? One of the things I hate most about rudders is the dependence that develops among paddlers that have them. I just read a book by a woman who paddled Canada’s Northwest passage. She had rudder problems more than once (luckily in calm conditions and at times when she wasn’t paddling solo). Once during an exciting paddle in wind and waves the day after her cable had broken she says “The only thing that bothered me was that my rudder was held together by string. Losing the rudder would have meant instant death”. You may take this as a pro-rudder comment but I would fear being dependent on such an unreliable device (as she apparently felt she was and really may have been). But hey, I have a solution for leaky hatches too. Don’t put that hole in your boat in the first place and it won’t leak. As for airplanes and rudders, I think hang gliding is a lot more satisfying way to fly. By my definition of “well built” it wouldn’t fail even in big surf (or break the back end off a kayak as my brother once witnessed in a sea cave). I’m not of the opinion that the Eskimos way or any old way is the best just that I have a lot more fun controlling my kayak without a rudder and feel sorry for those paddlers dependent on them. I’m not preventing anyone from using a crutch to walk or a rudder to control their kayak if that’s what they really want. I just think new paddlers are being sold a bill of goods “Look its so easy all you have to do is push the foot forward on the side you want to turn towards. Anybody can do it even a klutz like you.” Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 00:36:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22558 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22553 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04639 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6S7Xs112962; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 03:33:54 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:35:35 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <12138990213.20010728003535_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Problems With Skegs In-Reply-To: <9.18e8edf5.2892c3e1_at_aol.com> References: <9.18e8edf5.2892c3e1_at_aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 06:17:21 AM PDT, SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com wrote: > The moment of truth comes as your edge hard to turn, poor timing can > easily lead to window-shading. Yes - I'm familiar with funky timing. And it's consequences. :-) Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 01:10:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02799 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02758 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27565 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-6-27.oz.net [216.39.135.91]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA18297 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:10:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:18:31 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEIEALCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Duane wrote: <SNIP> >>>>>I recently read a book about a couple who paddled the inside passage with Matt's rudderless kayaks, and on at least a couple of occasions in the book, they mention being repeatedly broached in a following seas. Don't get me wrong. I don't like kayaks that are rudder dependant, which is why I like the Necky Arluk much more that the Necky Looksha II and III, but that rudder can make a bad day much more pleasent. I heard Chris Duff say himself that there were some days in his circumnavigation of the south island of New Zealand when he wished he had a rudder, but he also said that because he is a purist, and a few other reasons, he still doesn't have one. He didn't carry a GPS for the same reason.<<<<<<<< I'd like to point out that not one of the paddlers mentioned by Duane put a rudder on their kayak after their experiences, and any of them easily could have. I've never made the claim that our kayaks won't broach at all. Somewhere I've written about gravity's roll in broaching: "We can only delay the effects, not repeal the law." Also, Chris Duff was a highly skilled paddler when he started the couple were essentially learning as they paddled. Do you remember what Chris's "few other reasons" were for not having a rudder were? BTW, Paul Caffyn, circumnavigator of NZ, Australia, and just about any other sizable land surrounded by sea, told Chris he would never make it around New Zealand's South Island without a Nordkapp with a rudder (like Paul had used going around Australia). If I recall correctly Chris didn't even have a skeg on his Romany. Even I was surprised by that. Chris did break his kayak in half once though, landing in big surf. I think one of Chris's objections to a rudder (and a skeg) were their questionable reliability, especially in just such abusive conditions as broke his kayak. Chris spent a lot of time dealing with surf on that trip. As Melissa pointed out, you can't always be careful about not clogging the skeg. You don't back in or launch from a dock when going out through surf. When you are solo, like Chris usually was, you don't have anyone to help you free your skeg once you've punched out through several lines of surf either. It's better not to become dependent on it. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 02:27:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA25947 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 02:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25936 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 02:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22297 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 02:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-6-27.oz.net [216.39.135.91]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA05139 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 02:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 02:34:52 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCECEAMCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John wrote: <SNIP>>>>>>The drag varies with the design of the rudder. Some stall at low angles of attack and have rather huge amounts of drag. Some properly designed rudders do not stall and have very little drag at typical angles of attack. All bets are off when one turns the rudder too far. Not sure why builders don't install stops at 20 degrees or so to prevent or reduce stalling.<<<<< I think it is because then the kayak would be very difficult to turn (spin) in place without lifting the rudder first if the rudder can't be turned to well beyond 45 degrees. <SNIP>>>>>>If in the water it can contribute to the rotational force on the hull and could add to the capsize moment. I cannot recall ever noticing this though.<<<<<< I can assure you that if you start surfing a steep following sea and the rudder is returning to the waves crest while you are sliding sideways down the face you will notice it. In fact, it will probably grab almost all your attention for a while. >>>>>>>>>Since most of the broaching force derives from the deeply immersed bow in the opposing flow in the back of the wave in front one has to wonder if the rudder plays a significant role.<<<<<<< A hull does not need to have it's bow in the preceding wave in order to broach, but it certainly does increase the turning forces greatly if it is. The speed of the kayak plays an important roll here too, I think much more so than the action of the water flow in the waves. A long object like a kayak will still slowly broach in waves due to gravity even when it is just standing still. All long objects will soon be oriented sideways to the waves because of gravity and the wave's slopes. Just try to balance a long object in any curve with a length between crests from one to two times as long as the object and a relatively frictionless slope. The long object will be stable crosswise and again when pointed exactly perpendicular to the crests. At any other angle gravity will pull it down and will induce it to twist as the bow and stern each slide down their respective (wave) faces. This is what makes quartering seas the most difficult angle to maintain a course on. My solution to maintaining a course in a quartering sea is: Why bother! Why not surf straight down the waves and slightly favor going to the side that is in the direction of your goal. That way you will be able to have the wave aid your speed and then the (if slow) broach turn you off in the desired direction with no small amount of momentum left over from surfing. Use the wave crest as it passes you to turn straight down the wave direction again and catch the wave following the one that just passed you. Repeat the procedure over and over. This technique has served me well whether racing or just kayak touring. My philosophy is: why fight it when, with a little finesse, you can use it to your advantage. (Find the "loose reins" technique in the paddling skills manual on our website for another examples of using this philosophy). >>>>>Particularly once the boat starts to roll and the blade orients at a more horizontal angle to the flow.<<<<<< If you find that the rudder and thus kayak has tilted down wave beyond vertical as you are also sliding sideways down the wave face during a broach its time to start setting up for your Eskimo roll. This windowshading will of course also relieve the pressure on the rudder and not turn it into the C-shape assumed by the rudders that I've seen when a paddler has tried to use it to prevent a broach in the surf zone. ;-) >>>>>Nevertheless, it does pose an interesting question and one that one could analyze with reasonable accuracy by calculating the turning moments in a wave acting on the hull at varying relative speeds.<<<<<<<<< I think you would also have to include gravity acting on the hull (and on the waves--which is what is also causing the flow down their faces as the wave passes through the water) as well as the action of the water on the hull. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 05:03:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14600 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14595 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f255.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.130]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13101 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:02:16 -0700 Received: from 63.61.122.155 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:02:16 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.61.122.155] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / None of the above Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:02:16 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F2557nlT2NqFJ3sl3xb0000ac97_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2001 12:02:16.0408 (UTC) FILETIME=[250CD580:01C1175D] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I agree with Matt - a rudder is really nice in annoying conditions. Like being in my double with a cross wind. But in hideous conditions in my single the ability to recover quickly and to have rock solid foot supports is more useful than a turning device. This is a bit like wide boat - narrow boat. A wide boat is stable right up to the point where that five foot wave rolls in sideways to you and you want to use your lean to keep upright. The wide boat allows little finnese [finesse?]. More advanced skill levels like narrower boats. Same with no rudder. I think. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 05:27:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA21085 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21078 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29590 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cb5090a ([24.178.209.58]) by femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010728122651.CHUP17589.femail45.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_cb5090a> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: <00c101c1175f$14a3dde0$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> From: "Ron Dunnington" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudder Controls Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:16:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have a boat with a rudder and I've always wondered why they didn't cross the cables so that when the right rudder is deployed (turning right) you could use the left foot, forcing the left leg down, thus keeping the right leg in a raised position suitable for a right turn. My second problem is, with or without the rudder deployed, constant foot pressure on the rudder pedals causes my toes to go numb. Is there a cure for this? Thanks, Ron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 05:31:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23246 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23211 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:31:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Outfit3029_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02520 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 05:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Outfit3029_at_aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id 3.a.1040e0a0 (4562); Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <a.1040e0a0.28940a8d_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:31:09 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Another gator story To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/27/01 8:03:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: > Rick, The only way that dog could do serious damage to an (8-12') gator would be to cause a serious obstruction in the airway or digestive tract. Bruce McC WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 07:26:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27105 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27100 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.academicplanet.com (mail.academicplanet.com [209.245.216.197]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23528 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from academicplanet.com (dialup-64.158.38.90.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [64.158.38.90]) by mail.academicplanet.com (8.11.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6SEMtQ14930 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:22:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3B62E6ED.40113ECC_at_academicplanet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:23:11 -0700 From: Marilyn Kircus <mkircus_at_academicplanet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] web pictures References: <200107280810.BAA03050_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I too am interested in posting my pictures. I would like to be able to make a little presentation with both a short story line and the pictures. At the minimum I would like to be able to identify each. I also would like to know about ease of uploading. I certainly don't want to do it one at a time. Finally, have any of you tried making your pictures into a PowerPoint presentation and then saving it as an HTML file and then uploading the file and the accompanying folder to some public place? Thanks, Marilyn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 08:12:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11898 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11893 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25893 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-242-240.s240.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.242.240] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15QVl5-0007cg-00 ; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:12:04 -0400 Message-ID: <3B62D70C.614F4B6F_at_erols.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:15:24 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> CC: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / music References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt Broze wrote: although once I finished the last quarter of a 26 mile > kayak race fueled by little else than Rock and Roll music.). > I really enjoyed your rudder posting Matt, and have always wondered how to pipe in protected, waterproof music. -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 08:47:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21422 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21417 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe30.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.87]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19721 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:46:59 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [207.5.160.63] From: "Ken Schroeter" <kenschroeter_at_hotmail.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Retractable Skeg instead of Retractable Rudder Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:48:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <OE30HfqR77bieLYCT4a0000508d_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2001 15:46:59.0481 (UTC) FILETIME=[89968090:01C1177C] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Couldn't think of a good way to subject this message... Does anyone know of a maker of a retractable skeg that can go in a rudder post? I paddle a rudderless OTC Millennium 160 and would rather put a skeg (ie non-turning rudder) in the rudder post than install a rudder. This boat goes gangbusters into the wind, but a following or quartering sea requires a lot of correcting strokes. A lot... I imagine putting a fixed (straight) skeg that was retractable, sort of like a rudder that wouldn't turn but is in line with the keel, that can retract like a rudder, in the rudder post (the pintle hole). Anyone have any ideas? Ken Schroeter OTC Millennium 160 Laconia, NH, USA 43°32'25"N 71°28'59"W "Watery tarts, lying around in ponds, handing out swords, is no basis for a system of government!" -Monty Python *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 09:09:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27679 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27674 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04459 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10954 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00655 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27119 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02931 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200107281603.JAA02931_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 23782 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jul 2001 16:03:21 -0000 Received: from a10e1.pppool.de (HELO gmx.de) (213.6.16.225) by mail.gmx.net (mp004-rz3) with SMTP; 28 Jul 2001 16:03:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:45:12 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RFI Grey owl paddle fiibreglass ferule replacement X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id JAA27120 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Uli Hoeger wrote: > Now, does anybody know where I can get/order a replacement > fibreglass ferrule. You might also try the Canadian manufacturer Nimbus. I ordered some 17 fiberglas ferrules from them (for many many future paddle building projects ;-)) but they also sell single pieces. If you order more then 10, you get the dealer price of $CAN 21.50 plus shipping. Don't know about the price for a single ferrule. Cheers, Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 09:09:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27695 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27690 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04547 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10973 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00662 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27125 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02941 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200107281603.JAA02941_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 23871 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jul 2001 16:03:24 -0000 Received: from a10e1.pppool.de (HELO gmx.de) (213.6.16.225) by mail.gmx.net (mp004-rz3) with SMTP; 28 Jul 2001 16:03:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:40:47 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Dry Suit Sizes X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id JAA27127 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Joe Pylka wrote: > I think that material was called "Avilastic" or something like > that... Charlie Walbridge used to sell such drysuits by a German > manufacturer for use on whitewater. IIRC it was actually pretty strong > stuff, but after a few years began to develop small pinhole type > eaks. --Very popular at the time but both the manufacturer and the > material seem to have gone by the wayside... The German manufacturer Zoelzer (www.zoelzer.de) still uses a material called Avilastic (breathable). He doesn't make an ordinary dry suit, but one without a neck latex gasket (it has a neopren gasket instead). Don't ask me why, I did not quite understand the advantages of the suit (one of Zoelzers comments was, in an ironic way: "This suit is not made for kayakers that constantly swim behind their boats or paddle with their head under water"). He might have made *real* dry suits (tm) earlier. Cheers, Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 09:28:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03804 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03799 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18730 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thomas (ip30.pm3-1.usw.isdn.nwlink.com [209.20.134.30]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA12590 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:27:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Thomas Mitchell" <mitchell_at_nwlink.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Diamante Sea Kayaks? [possible Romany(non-vibrating skeg) replacement] Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:33:01 -0700 Message-ID: <OJEBLFLBGFHEGPBEICKKGENECEAA.mitchell_at_nwlink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <12138990213.20010728003535_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The other day I noticed that my favorite surf kayak maker (Mega) makes some attractive sea kayaks under the Diamante name. The Rapide in particular looks like it would be a nice replacement for my much abused Romany16 and weigh about 15lbs less... http://www.mega-kayaks.co.uk/diamante.htm Has anyone had any experience with this make/model? BTW - I paddle the above noted Romany16 and a PH Sirius. Both have non-vibrating skegs... Regards, Thomas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 10:47:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27628 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27618 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14065 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.31.118] (host-31-118.dsl-sea.seanet.com [208.12.31.118]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00329; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:45:52 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:54:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff From: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> To: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B7884A66.15C6%rexrob_at_mac.com> In-Reply-To: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEEEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On the subject of wind/waves/broaching/weathercocking/skegs/no skegs/rudders/no rudders- It's amazing how much difference there is in different kayak designs. Some are so much more well behaved than others in wind, waves and currents. Let me tell you about the kayak I've been using for last 3 1/2 years. It's been such a joy after the frustrations of fighting weathercocking and messing with rudders and skegs. The first day on the water the wind was blowing at about 8 to 12 knots. Typical conditions, so a good day to try a new boat and compare with previous experiences in other boats. Paddling up wind at different angles I'm delighted to discover that there is no weathercocking at all. Big smile on my face as I dart around testing a variety of angles to the wind. Then, by accident, I noticed that if I leaned forward a little as I paddled forward at an angle to the wind that the kayak starts turning up into the wind. Now I lean back a little as I paddle forward and the kayak starts to turn down wind. Bigger smile on my face. I'm paddling around now, making changes in my course with subtle shifts of my weight, fore and aft, no leaning to the side or edging the kayak. I've never seen anything like this in 20 years of paddling and it's not in any of the books. How can this be? Well, in this kayak, when I lean forward, the bow water line length increases by about six inches (15 centimeters) . This is enough to create a slight weathercock interaction so the kayak starts to turn into the wind. When I lean back a little the water line length decreases by about 6 inches. This releases the bow a little and changes the balance between hull, water, and wind so the kayak starts turning downwind. In this design the stern waterline length never changes. I can change my waterline length at the bow within a range of 12 inches (30 centimeters). I later discovered that this is real handy when I'm in strong currents working my way upstream, hopping from eddy to eddy. If a boil or side current starts shoving the bow to the right or left then I'll lean back as I sprint forward. This releases the bow and makes it easier to make a correction. If I'm sprinting straight into the grain of the current I'll lean forward a little to increase the waterline. This seems to improve my speed. So where can you buy one of these amazing, rudderless, skegless, perfectly balanced boats? Damn, I've got to run. To be continued tomorrow. Rex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 11:31:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12285 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12280 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16245 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-216-94-166.hsacorp.net (24-216-94-166.hsacorp.net [24.216.94.166]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6SITbL25100; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 14:29:37 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:31:17 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <1221009354.20010728113117_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> CC: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff In-Reply-To: <B7884A66.15C6%rexrob_at_mac.com> References: <B7884A66.15C6%rexrob_at_mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Saturday, July 28, 2001, at 10:54:31 AM PDT, Rex Roberton wrote: > On the subject of wind/waves/broaching/weathercocking/skegs/no > skegs/rudders/no rudders- > It's amazing how much difference there is in different kayak > designs. Some are so much more well behaved than others in wind, > waves and currents. Let me tell you about the kayak I've been using > for last 3 1/2 years. It's been such a joy after the frustrations of > fighting weathercocking and messing with rudders and skegs. -fantasia snipped- > So where can you buy one of these amazing, rudderless, skegless, > perfectly balanced boats? > Damn, I've got to run. To be continued tomorrow. ack! That's mean! :-Þ Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 12:12:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24423 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24418 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15131 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thomas (ip10.pm3-1.usw.isdn.nwlink.com [209.20.134.10]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA29556 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Thomas Mitchell" <mitchell_at_nwlink.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <OJEBLFLBGFHEGPBEICKKGENFCEAA.mitchell_at_nwlink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1221009354.20010728113117_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rex forgot to mention the kayak in question can be lifted onto the top of his car with one hand. I saw Rex's boat this Spring and it's been gnawing at my brain ever ever since. I actually mentioned getting one to my wife the other day. Her response was "I knew this was coming." along with a fait accompli shrug of the shoulders... Rex, you should post a picture when fess up. Regards, Thomas -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Melissa Reese Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 11:31 AM To: Rex Roberton Cc: Matt Broze; Paddlewise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff On Saturday, July 28, 2001, at 10:54:31 AM PDT, Rex Roberton wrote: > On the subject of wind/waves/broaching/weathercocking/skegs/no > skegs/rudders/no rudders- > It's amazing how much difference there is in different kayak > designs. Some are so much more well behaved than others in wind, > waves and currents. Let me tell you about the kayak I've been using > for last 3 1/2 years. It's been such a joy after the frustrations of > fighting weathercocking and messing with rudders and skegs. -fantasia snipped- > So where can you buy one of these amazing, rudderless, skegless, > perfectly balanced boats? > Damn, I've got to run. To be continued tomorrow. ack! That's mean! :-Þ Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 16:27:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10525 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10520 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ripnet.com ([206.47.98.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13789 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 16:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from recorder.ca (A2-P061.RipNET.com [206.47.206.62]) by mail.ripnet.com (8.12.0.Beta12/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6SNR86U005698 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:27:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3B63498D.BABA8756_at_recorder.ca> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:23:57 -0400 From: John Waddington <waddinj_at_recorder.ca> Reply-To: waddinj_at_recorder.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nimbus ferrule References: <200107281603.JAA02931_at_ns.intelenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Do you have a URL or address for Nimbus, Marion? I haven't been able to find it. Thanks. John Marian Gunkel wrote: > You might also try the Canadian manufacturer Nimbus. I ordered some 17 fiberglas ferrules from them (for many many future paddle building projects ;-)) but they also sell single pieces. If you order more then 10, you get the dealer price of $CAN 21.50 plus shipping. Don't know about the price for a single ferrule. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 20:11:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19190 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19157 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21228 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05397 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00859 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06903 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23242 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-2-59.oz.net [216.39.134.123]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03485; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:30:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Gabriel L Romeu" <romeug_at_erols.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / music Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:39:10 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEIEAPCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B62D70C.614F4B6F_at_erols.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Actually that race in 1986 was the first time I had tried paddling to music. My wife had commented at how much she liked to race listening to the radio and how bad she would feel during the commercials. Normally she wasn't a fan of Rock & Roll, but it was the right music for kayak racing and training for her. So I bought a cheap on sale at $10 waterproof walkman imitation to try it out. Half way into the race up Indian Arm near Vancouver BC I had used up my breakfast (from 5 hours before in Seattle) and my speed dropped drastically as the lead pack I had been in now rapidly pulled away from me. We had just turned back towards the finish 13 miles away and I was now also getting chilled by the headwind too. Luckily in my rush to get the boat in the water in time to make the start I had had the foresight to throw in a light windproof coat. No longer competitive, I stopped and put the coat on. Soon my arms started to cramp up and I began to wonder if I was going to make it back at all under my own power. My speed had dropped from over 5 knots to probably not much more than 3 knots. I looked for power boaters who might take pity on me and give me a candy bar or something to give me a quick fuel fix. I would even change my course to head them off. All the boats I hailed down and asked for food only had beer to offer. Canadian beer, with twice the alcohol, at that. The strong beer might give me some much needed calories but then I thought that dumped into my near teetotal ling empty stomach it might have some real unwanted effects on both my stomach and brain. I declined the generous offers. Finally, another racer caught and passed me about 1/2 way back to the start. I was in agony but noticed he was wearing headphones and remembered the tape player I had with me but hadn't had time before the start to get set up and put on. I stopped and set it up, as far as I was concerned I was out of the race and just trying to get back to the start, my car and some food. I had a tape of old rock and roll favorites in the tape player. after a few minutes of getting into the beat my fatigue and hunger seemed greatly diminished and soon, as if by magic, my speed again went up to the 5 knot range. After 45 minutes of music I neared the finish line just after the first side of a 90 minute tape came to the end and the cheap non-auto-reverse tape player that would require me stopping again to flip the tape over. The last hundred yards or so to the finish were grueling without that fast beat to keep my stroke rate up. I figure the beat of the music works much the same as marching in step works for the military to keep a man moving when the C-rations have run out, he hasn't slept much in days and his body is rebelling. I now have a nicer auto-reverse waterproof tape player and use it for kayak racing (Billy Idol's fast paced hard driving beat works great for that), downhill skiing (Fleetwood Mac/Rumours double album tape is my favorite then) or just about any music with a good beat if I need to grind out the miles more than I need to listen to the subtleties of my surroundings. During more normal paddling I prefer to listen to the birds, the wind and/or my paddling partners. Best advice my now Ex-wife ever gave me. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Gabriel L Romeu [mailto:romeug_at_erols.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:15 AM > To: Matt Broze > Cc: Paddlewise > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / music > > > > > Matt Broze wrote: > although once I finished the last quarter of a 26 mile > > kayak race fueled by little else than Rock and Roll music.). > > > I really enjoyed your rudder posting Matt, and have always wondered how > to pipe in protected, waterproof music. > > > -- > ¤ Gabriel L Romeu > ¤ > http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 22:40:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03746 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03707 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05591 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-239-165.s165.tnt1.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.239.165] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31 #3) id 15QjJU-0004tC-00 ; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 01:40:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3B63A296.EBC3995E_at_erols.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 01:43:50 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> CC: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg /Rudder / music References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEIEAPCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt Broze wrote: > So I bought a cheap on sale at $10 waterproof walkman imitation to try it > out. I have been trying to find waterproof music gear but only seem to see weatherproof. Are there submersible walkmen? -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Jul 28 23:57:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26694 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 23:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26688 Sat, 28 Jul 2001 23:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26253 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 23:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-135.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.135]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA25357 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:56:27 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B63B315.E28B06DB_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 22:54:13 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sad note from Alaska, The bodies of two kayakers were found yesterday near Cordovia, Alaska. They had been missing since June 28th. The boat was found I believe on the 30th of June washed ashore. The State Troopers reported that neither was wearing a lifevest! I hate to critize the dead but in the cold waters of the Gulf of Alaska not wearing their lifevests was stupid. Granted maybe they would not have survived the accident even with PFD's but wearing them would have given them a better chance at survival. It is a sad story that maybe didn't have to be. Bob (who always wears his PFD) alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 03:55:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10112 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 03:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10107 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 03:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07181 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 03:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.86.42.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.86.42]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA19945; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c1181d$1dbe1800$2a56f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B63B315.E28B06DB_at_mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:56:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 2:54 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does > Sad note from Alaska, > The bodies of two kayakers were found yesterday near Cordovia, > Alaska. They had been missing since June 28th. The boat was found I > believe on the 30th of June washed ashore. The State Troopers reported > that neither was wearing a lifevest! > I hate to critize the dead but in the cold waters of the Gulf of > Alaska not wearing their lifevests was stupid. Granted maybe they would > not have survived the accident even with PFD's but wearing them would > have given them a better chance at survival. > It is a sad story that maybe didn't have to be. > Bob > (who always wears his PFD) > alaska I think most paddlers nowadays wear their PFDs. This has a double effect. One, helps your own personal safety. Two, others see you wearing one and catch on that they should wear theirs. On the latter, it helps that the PFD wearer is obviously an experienced, skilled paddler since this drums into the novice or non-PFDed individual that even an accomplished sea kayaker wears a PFD. Of course, there are people who are completely clueless. They will pull up to an experienced pack of paddlers who are wearing PFDs, carrying emergency gear, radios, paddle floats etc. and possibly have on cold-water clothing. Meanwhile the clueless ones are in jeans, T-shirt because the air is warm and no PFD or sprayskirt. They are oblivious to the sharp contrast and never wonder for even a moment why paddlers who are clearly more skilled than they have chosen to be that equipped. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 04:33:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22142 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 04:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22137 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 04:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout4.nyroc.rr.com (mailout4-0.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.120]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04769 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 04:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.twcny.rr.com (mail1-1 [24.92.226.139]) by mailout4.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.2/RoadRunner 1.03) with ESMTP id f6TBWIn09150; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 07:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107291132.f6TBWIn09150_at_mailout4.nyroc.rr.com> Received: from skerray ([24.24.17.236]) by mail1.twcny.rr.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59787U250000L250000S0V35) with SMTP id com; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 07:32:18 -0400 X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 07:30:59 -0400 To: waddinj_at_recorder.ca, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Nimbus ferrule In-Reply-To: <3B63498D.BABA8756_at_recorder.ca> References: <200107281603.JAA02931_at_ns.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 07:23 PM 7/28/01 -0400, John Waddington wrote: >Do you have a URL or address for Nimbus, Marion? I haven't been >able to find it. Thanks. > Try http://www.nimbuskayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 09:59:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29213 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29208 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19488 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03486 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01264 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22916 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f307.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.182]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04538 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:34:32 -0700 Received: from 193.66.12.133 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:34:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [193.66.12.133] From: "Clas Hagelstam" <clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise V1 #1571 / Ballast for day paddlers Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:34:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F307mOuf0fLCBTQYIcV00009f16_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2001 16:34:32.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[58580870:01C1184C] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net (PaddleWise) >Reply-To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net >To: paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subject: PaddleWise V1 #1571 >Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:10:40 -0700 (PDT) > >PaddleWise Saturday, July 28 2001 Re Ballast for Day Paddlers check http//www.clinet.fi/~sibbe -> click "Vihje" -> click 5/2001. The pictures should tell the story in case your Finnish or Swedish are rusty. Waterbladders secured by suitable padding are my choice. Regards _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 09:59:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29332 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29285 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19791 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vegas.infi.net (sdn-ar-011nvlvegP263.dialsprint.net [63.178.207.25]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00205; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 12:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B64487D.179A0099_at_vegas.infi.net> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:31:42 -0700 From: Donald Schoengold <donaldsc_at_vegas.infi.net> Reply-To: donaldsc_at_vegas.infi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does References: <3B63B315.E28B06DB_at_mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net A nominee for the Darwin award, perhaps? > Sad note from Alaska, > > I hate to critize the dead but in the cold waters of the Gulf of > Alaska not wearing their lifevests was stupid. Granted maybe they would > not have survived the accident even with PFD's but wearing them would > have given them a better chance at survival. > It is a sad story that maybe didn't have to be. > Bob > (who always wears his PFD) > alaska > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 13:57:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11747 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11742 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07930 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 13:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-456.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.214]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09983 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 12:56:39 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B647800.3EA1EE83_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 12:54:24 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] PFD's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Another comment on wearing a PFD in Alaska or any otherplace. I always wear mine because I also carry safety gear in and on my PFD. Usually I carry in the pockets 3 flares, a whistle, and a couple energy bars. I also carry a knife clipped onto the outside of the vest. Sewn on to the back of the PFD is a survival kit containing various survival items including matches, space blanket, garbage bags, first aid, parachute cord, signal mirror ect. If for whatever reason I lose contact with my boat and survive the swim to shore (very doubtful without a PFD) then I have a better chance at survival and signaling for rescue. Much of survival is about being prepared for the unexpected. Appearently the two who drowned here in Alaska were not expecting any problems and didn't prepare for capsize. The boy scouts have it right. "Be Prepared" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 14:05:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14790 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14785 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvm.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14782 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) id <01K6JBSCL2WW9QW01N_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:05:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz ([132.181.173.162]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.0-025 #45723) with ESMTP id <01K6JBS8L6P29PO72K_at_it.canterbury.ac.nz> for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:05:26 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from sandy.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (sandy [132.181.173.22]) by mail.chem.canterbury.ac.nz (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28942 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:05:25 +1200 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:05:24 +1200 From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudder Controls In-reply-to: <00c101c1175f$14a3dde0$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> X-Sender: ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Message-id: <4.3.2.7.1.20010730090329.00c52cf0_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ron wrote - >My second problem is, with or without the rudder deployed, constant foot >pressure on the rudder pedals causes my toes to go numb. Is there a cure for >this? Have hinged foot pedals the same size as your foot. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 14:43:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26606 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26601 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f173.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.173]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11694 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:42:57 -0700 Received: from 4.4.165.178 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 21:42:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.4.165.178] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:42:57 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F173pwACkWHZqYW8BYX00009d00_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2001 21:42:57.0807 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E8E29F0:01C11877] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Help! I can't decide between a new Kajak Sport Viviane or a VCP Aquilla. My key concern is which boat handles best loaded in windy/rough conditions (20-30mph winds, 5-8 foot waves....particularly rear quartering). I've paddled both boats, but not in rough conditions. Anyone out there have experience with these kayaks? Also, the VCP people "don't know" what the Aquilla cargo volume is (in cubic inches or liters) and what the Aquilla maximum load is in pounds. Anyone out there know this as well? Which has the most cargo space and the largest maximum load? Thanks for your help. Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 15:52:00 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15998 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15954 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: miles2go_at_konnections.net Received: from mail.domainhosting.net (ip185-25.konnections.com [207.173.185.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25980 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles2go (209.63.122.148) by SQL00 (MailMax 4. 7. 1. 4) with ESMTP id 70213772 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:50:22 -0600 MDT Message-ID: <000e01c11880$5b27cca0$947a3fd1_at_konnections.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107292105.OAA14802_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] web pictures Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:46:43 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net When I asked the original web picture host question a couple of days ago I was reminded that this subject is not completely on topic and was asked to have folks reply to me off-list. I totally agree as I happen to be on other lists that are focused on activities related to travel and some are *extremely* hard to keep up with because of all of the "nearly" on topic discussions that go on unquelled. I wouldn't like to see this list go that way too. Having said that though I will report my findings here in hopes of helping Marilyn and others that may be wondering the same thing. I've talked to many folks about photo web hosts from many different lists including paddlewise. I think I've just about seen all of the photo host sites there are and have looked into all that seemed like they would well suit a touring kayaker/cyclist in their want for high volume, high quality and ease of use. I once had over 100 photos on Photopoint.com but they seemed to go through a period of instability shortly after they decided to start charging and thus I deleted my albums. After much searching I think I found a clear winner with the help of a paddlewise member and after looking over many photo albums hosted by this service. The service I chose was Webshots which is part of the Excite.com family. In addition to being completely free and not barraging members with junk mail, there seems to be no impractical limit on size, quantity and quality of the member galleries. Many photos can be uploaded at once and there is a neat and free photo management tool (myphotos assistant) you can download which I now use. Feel free to take a look at mine which is in work (two days old). http://community.webshots.com/user/houseofwheels but my scanner isn't letting me get the photos as tack sharp as it used to. You can see from other member galleries that the quality is there. Take a look at these for a good example http://community.webshots.com/album/2661630RFRQTMmkaX I don't know the album owner but I'm sure they'll get a kick out of how many hits they have shortly. The image clarity is great. Anyway, there didn't seem to be many choices in the same caliber especially for no charge. You may also want to check out MSN's photo hosting though. They didn't seem bad but I preferred Webshots. I hope this helps a few folks and doesn't start a big on-list debate. Cheers! Ron > Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 09:23:11 -0700 > From: Marilyn Kircus <mkircus_at_academicplanet.com> > Subject: Re: web pictures > > I too am interested in posting my pictures. I would like to be able to make a little > presentation with both a short story line and the pictures. At the minimum I would like to > be able to identify each. > > I also would like to know about ease of uploading. I certainly don't want to do it one at a > time. > > Finally, have any of you tried making your pictures into a PowerPoint presentation and then > saving it as an HTML file and then uploading the file and the accompanying folder to some > public place? > > Thanks, > > Marilyn > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 16:43:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02692 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02657 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02991 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06630 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01358 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20347 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25517 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 14:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mediaone.net (dws-72-131.jacksonville.net [24.129.72.131]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6TLLAP23472 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B6438E9.6C6A4C63_at_mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:25:13 +0100 From: William Malone <wmalone_at_mediaone.net> Organization: Complete Small Business Accounting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Water Purifiers for thyroid problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Most water purifiers use iodine which is not safe for people with Graves disease (thyroid problems). Does anyone know of a product that is safe for these people to use kayaking? William Malone *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 16:43:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03098 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03093 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04174 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06660 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01366 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13920 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink2.onlink.net (onlink2.onlink.net [206.108.253.66]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20637 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bx6q00b (hunt1-32.onlink.net [209.105.215.33]) by onlink2.onlink.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6TMeip55764 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:40:45 -0400 Message-ID: <006c01c1187f$44025000$21d769d1_at_bx6q00b> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200107262020.NAA12323_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:37:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Niels wrote: >I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the skeg >is extended either most or all of the way. Since my energy output is not >constant, it is difficult to get a precise on how much drag is being >created. WOW!!!! Hard to believe. According to my text on Psyhcokinetics humans can't detect much better than +/- 15% effort 50% of the time. I would get in touch with the Dagger people about that. >> Well built boats rarely have such problems. Buy a well built boat. Who makes a well-built boat, w. regards to the skeg box? (A dealer in Bryn Mawr, PA told me that the VCP boats are well made, and Dagger's boats are suspect.) I won't comment on that since I do not think it fair for builders or designers to trash the competition. I am sure the none designers on Paddlewsie can help you. Gabriel wrote: >wouldn't be saying that if your QCC boats weren't so well built >John. Would too. :-) Alex wrote: >And no, you don't have to use a rudder, just don't complain about poor >design as if it HAD to be that way. Right on Alex. Matt wrote: >I think it is because then the kayak would be very difficult to turn (spin) >in place without lifting the rudder first if the rudder can't be turned to >well beyond 45 degrees. Maybe that is why they put those up and down control lines on them :-) >I can assure you that if you start surfing a steep following sea and the >rudder is returning to the waves crest while you are sliding sideways down >the face you will notice it. In fact, it will probably grab almost all your >attention for a while. Hasn't happened yet but I look forward to it. >I think you would also have to include gravity acting on the hull (and on >the waves--which is what is also causing the flow down their faces as the >wave passes through the water) as well as the action of the water on the >hull. Not me, but knock yourself out if you want. :-) Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 17:10:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09695 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09690 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21407 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:09:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 49392 invoked by alias); 30 Jul 2001 00:09:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 49363 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jul 2001 00:09:07 -0000 Received: from dialupi75.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (207.225.89.75) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 00:09:07 -0000 Message-ID: <021e01c1188e$29c6c680$c558e1cf_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F173pwACkWHZqYW8BYX00009d00_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:25:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Both boats are huge, as far as capacity and load goes. My guess is the Viv is a bit bigger. Both boats handle rough conditions well, but both have fairly large windage and BIG bows so puffs over 30 could be a handfull for anyone but a strong, talented paddler. The skeg systems work well in giving you the needed balance, when necessary. I have not had the Aquilla in winds over 20 kn. but know folks who have. I have paddled the Viv as a guide boat for two seasons now. The new EXpedition model with the day hatch is great. A side note, the KajakSport boats rate a 10 in workmanship and finish. The Valley boats we've seen come in rate a 5 or 6. We deal them both, along with umteen other manufacturers. Good Luck. Steve Alder Creek Kayak and Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? > Help! I can't decide between a new Kajak Sport Viviane or a VCP > Aquilla. My key concern is which boat handles best loaded in windy/rough > conditions (20-30mph winds, 5-8 foot waves....particularly rear > quartering). I've paddled both boats, but not in rough conditions. > Anyone out there have experience with these kayaks? Also, the VCP people > "don't know" what the Aquilla cargo volume is (in cubic inches or liters) > and what the Aquilla maximum load is in pounds. Anyone out there know > this as well? Which has the most cargo space and the largest maximum > load? Thanks for your help. Ken > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 17:35:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18327 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18320 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11208 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.31.223] (host-31-223.dsl-sea.seanet.com [208.12.31.223]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02261; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:33:26 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:42:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] skegs and rudders and other stuff From: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> CC: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B789FB70.15E1%rexrob_at_mac.com> In-Reply-To: <1221009354.20010728113117_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id RAA18323 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I wrote: >On the subject of wind/waves/broaching/weathercocking/skegs/no >skegs/rudders/no rudders- >It's amazing how much difference there is in different kayak designs. Some >are so much more well behaved than others in wind, waves and currents. Let >me tell you about the kayak I've been using for last 3 1/2 years. It's been >such a joy after the frustrations of fighting weathercocking and messing >with rudders and skegs.> >The first day on the water the wind was blowing at about 8 to 12 knots. >Typical conditions, so a good day to try a new boat and compare with >previous experiences in other boats. Paddling up wind at different angles >I'm delighted to discover that there is no weathercocking at all. Big smile >on my face as I dart around testing a variety of angles to the wind. Then, >by accident, I noticed that if I leaned forward a little as I paddled >forward at an angle to the wind that the kayak starts turning up into the >wind. Now I lean back a little as I paddle forward and the kayak starts to >turn down wind. Bigger smile on my face. I'm paddling around now, making >changes in my course with subtle shifts of my weight, fore and aft, no >leaning to the side or edging the kayak. I've never seen anything like this >in 20 years of paddling and it's not in any of the books. How can this be? >Well, in this kayak, when I lean forward, the bow water line length >increases by about six inches (15 centimeters) . This is enough to create a >slight weathercock interaction so the kayak starts to turn into the wind. >When I lean back a little the water line length decreases by about 6 inches. >This releases the bow a little and changes the balance between hull, water, >and wind so the kayak starts turning downwind. In this design the stern >waterline length never changes. I can change my waterline length at the bow >within a range of 12 inches (30 centimeters). I later discovered that this >is real handy when I'm in strong currents working my way upstream, hopping >from eddy to eddy. If a boil or side current starts shoving the bow to the >right or left then I'll lean back as I sprint forward. This releases the >bow and makes it easier to make a correction. If I'm sprinting straight >into the grain of the current I'll lean forward a little to increase the >waterline. This seems to improve my speed. >So where can you buy one of these amazing, rudderless, skegless, perfectly >balanced boats? >Damn, I've got to run. To be continued tomorrow. Melissa wrote: >ack! That's mean! :-Þ Thomas wrote: >Rex forgot to mention the kayak in question can be lifted onto the top of >his car with one hand. I saw Rex's boat this Spring and it's been gnawing >at my brain ever ever since. I actually mentioned getting one to my wife >the other day. Her response was "I knew this was coming." along with a fait >accompli shrug of the shoulders... >Rex, you should post a picture when fess up. Sorry Melissa, I really did need to run, sort of. :) Thomas, with such an understanding wife, can anything stop you now? Go for it! Now, where were we? Oh ya, where can you buy one of these kayaks? Well, you can't buy one, you will have to build it. My kayak is a 32 lb skin boat built in the style of the Aleutian Baidarka. It's not an exact replica but all the basics are there, wood frame lashed and pegged, flexible skin, bifurcated bow, truncated stern, and a cockpit position that is set aft of the mid section. Very different than the Greenland designs. I don't point out the difference to knock the Greenland boats. I want to build a Greenland boat also. The whole purpose of my post was to help people become aware of the incredible range of differences there are between different kayaks (and thus the great difference in boat/wind/wave interactions) so when they start looking at the issue of skegs/no skegs/rudders/no rudders, hopefully they won't be locked into a narrow view just trying to decide if rudders or skegs are good or bad. Matt Broze made this point and he knows better than anyone that I've met because he has tested hundreds (yes, hundreds) of modern kayaks and has kept detailed notes on his results. It's no wonder that his own designs are so good. Harvey Golden (Portland, Oregon, http://home.pacifier.com/~qayaq/) is the other person that comes to mind when I think about those who have an above average knowledge of this range of differences. Harvey builds replica Arctic skin boats and he paddles them. He has built skin boat repicas from many different regions from the Aleutian Islands, Alaska, Canada and Greenland. Here is a quote from his web site (note the reference to "diversity of form): "In a more abstract sense, kayak replicas have a great appeal to my imagination and intellect. Their forms inspire awe and genuine wonderment--especially when one considers the harsh context of their origin, as well as the diversity of their forms. Launching a replica kayak is much like stepping into a time machine: It drops you into a different time, culture, and experience as you leave the shore-- you realize that the original kayak, now gathering dust in the backrooms of a national museum, once gave somebody much the same feel on the water that you are now experiencing." If you get a chance to see a presentation by Harvey, don't miss it. I promise it will be worth your time. For the heck of it, ask him about the Canadian Inuit kayak (Clyde River, I think) that has a bow-skeg. That's not a typo, the skeg is up front. This is getting long, but you know where the delete button is if you need it. :) For those interested here is a little more information about my kayak- About 4 1/2 years ago I decided I would like to build my own kayak. I read five books on the various meathods, marine plywood stitch-and-glue, strip built, and skin boats. Initially I made the mistake of writting off skin boats because I thought I would break it or tear a hole in it. After talking with Corey Freedman (www.skinboats.com) and paddling some of his kayaks I discovered that they are really quite durable. He uses a tight weave nylon fabric that is very tough and coats it with a special polyurethane product. The main thing I wanted was a boat that was easy to control in the light winds that I typically paddle in, without a skeg or rudder. Corey insisted that the Baidarka was very well behaved in the wind so I decided to give it a try. I had very specific ideas about the length, width, depth, back deck coaming height, and amount of rocker. With the Baidarka frame system it was very easy to get all of this like I wanted it. I wanted a low volume, maneuverable boat for day paddling and it would have to be good for use in Deception Pass where I teach a tidal rapids class. I built the boat 3 1/2 years ago. After paddling it a while I sold my fiberglass sea kayak and my plastic sea kayak. All my sea kayaking, including the tidal rapids class is done in the Baidarka. It is 16 1/2 feet long and 21 3/4 inches wide. If I was going to do more than weekend camping I would build a larger, higher volume boat. It took about 10 days to build the boat and several additional days to outfit the cockpit and make and install the perimiter lines. I did the whole project in Corey's shop. He supplied all the tools, materials, and instruction. Personally this is the only way I would want to build my first Baidarka but now that I've done one I would be comfortable building one at home in my shop. At the time, Corey was charging $900. For pictures (not my personal boat) go to Corey's web site (www.skinboats.com). There is a picture of my cockpit on Ken Rasmussen's web site in the photo section (www.kayakfit.com). It's the only skin boat on the page. Later. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 18:42:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08903 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08865 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.46]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27121 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default ([12.72.25.141]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010730014056.MDVQ12706.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net_at_default>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 01:40:56 +0000 Message-ID: <007401c11898$e2799900$8d19480c_at_default> From: "Gerald Foodman" <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net> To: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Matt is wrong on rudders Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:41:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Let me say first that I have for years owned Matt's Mariner Express (without rudder of course) and think it is a terrific boat. I have also paddled other Mariners and find them uniformly excellent. There is no need for a rudder on these boats. I also have a Solstice GTS (with rudder). There is no need for a rudder on this boat either. But there is a very big difference between a boat needing a rudder and a rudder providing a definite benefit. All of Matt's anti rudder arguments are carefully thought out and based on long experience. I won't repeat them. They are mostly correct, especially his list of rudder disadvantages. My bottom line experience, however, with both boats over numerous years is overwhelming clear. The rudder saves energy when travelling longer distances in a straight line between two points, in moderate conditions, with winds up to 25 knots. Far more energy than any lost to rudder drag. No verbal arguments can counteract this clear experience. I would always choose the Solstice over the Express for this type of travel. Let me emphasize; the rudder is for saving energy, not for turning, going through slalom gates or rock gardens, surfing big waves. Nevertheless, my next boat, if and when I raise the money for it, will be a Kevlar Mariner II with sliding seat. I will keep my GTS and mostly use its rudder when I paddle it, and keep the Express as well. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 18:43:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09386 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09381 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.83]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28352 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 80ix0 ([65.224.46.63]) by cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3225); Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:41:54 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c11899$1d9ee4e0$3f2ee041_at_80ix0> From: "ridem" <ridem_at_msn.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Water purification, Iodine, and Graves Disease Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:43:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2001 01:41:55.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0628E20:01C11898] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net If you have been reliably diagnosed with Graves' Disease (Hyperthyroidism or Thyrotoxicosis) you should be under the care of an endocrinologist. There are many treatments (not altogether satisfactory). But given the cardiac pathology, muscle weakness, and emotional/psychic lability under stress, I think that you should have more concerns than getting water-borne pathogens, versus Iodine toxicity. However. boiled water is a century old solution to contaminated water. The MSR water filter does not add Iodine. Unless you are traveling for many weeks at a stretch, most water-borne parasites, bacteria, and some viruses have a several days to several weeks incubation period. You will be home before you get sick. If you are paddling in North America. your risks are primarily giardia, Hepatitis A (for which there is a vaccine) and the various exotic diseases like Listerosis, Campylobacteria, Crypotosporidium, Ehrlichosis, and dozens of other nasties which you are just as likely to acquire as a result of eating at a fast food joint, drinking city water, or buying supermarket meats and cheese. Again, a knowledgeable physician (preferably an endocrinologist who also has an interest in "travel medicine") may be your best resource. But.. What is so wrong with the old low-tech boiling of water? I rarely use Iodine Tablets, never use secondary (post-filtration treatment) Iodine treatment. Old fashioned Halazone tablets are Chlorine based, also common bleach works well also , though perhaps not as effective as Iodine.But it is an alternative to post filtration Iodine water treatment. I think you are perhaps over estimating your risk of water-borne pathogens, versus your underlying thyroid disease. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See our canoe tripping website http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Jul 29 20:20:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07670 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07664 Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:18:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05201 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.27.19082793 (4469) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27.19082793.28962c00_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:18:24 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudder Controls To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Ron wrote - > > >My second problem is, with or without the rudder deployed, constant foot > >pressure on the rudder pedals causes my toes to go numb. Is there a cure > for > >this? > > All, I eliminate this problem by not putting so much pressure on the pedals with my feet. Sure, you want some pressure, but not a lot. Try relaxing the feet and legs some. Also, try varying your foot position on the pedals. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 01:29:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA10628 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 01:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10623 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 01:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (callisto.net.voyager.co.nz [203.21.30.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12391 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 01:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup (ip195.net.voyager.co.nz [203.110.17.36]) by callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA26976 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:29:19 +1200 (NZST) From: "Allan and Joyce Singleton" <alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] The Niuean Vaka Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:28:16 +1200 Message-ID: <NEBBKFEMBLGOMPJPJOCFGEHBCIAA.alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Joyce and I recently spent a week on Niue, a large coral atoll at 19deg south, 169deg 55min west. The island is on three levels, the lowest being a more or less continuous reef right around it, with no lagoon, but some channels into it, and some pools which are great for snorkelling. In the west the land rises steeply 20 metres to a narrow terrace, then rises another 40 metres to the level of the interior and eastern coast. Because of the steep access to the reef there are very few places where it is possible to launch a trailered boat, so the traditional canoe, the vaka, is still in common use for fishing. This craft is a single person dugout canoe with an outrigger, paddled with a single bladed paddle. The hull and deck are shaped separately then joined together. If you would like to see what they look like, go to: http://communities.msn.com/SingletonFamilyNZ/theniueanvaka.msnw Allan Singleton Hamilton NZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 06:13:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08470 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08429 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01921 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id GAA29256; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:11:57 -0400 To: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <3B647800.3EA1EE83_at_mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 12:54 PM 7/29/2001 -0800, Rev. Bob Carter wrote: > I always wear mine because I also carry safety gear in and on my >PFD. Usually I carry in the pockets 3 flares, a whistle, and a couple >energy bars. I also carry a knife clipped onto the outside of the vest. >Sewn on to the back of the PFD is a survival kit containing various >survival items including matches, space blanket, garbage bags, first >aid, parachute cord, signal mirror ect.... I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD, an excellent but 6-year-old model that I've (uhmmm) outgrown. My PFD has one very large pocket, one smaller web pocket and clips for emergency flasher and knife. Most of the PFDs designed for paddlers have very few pockets for emergency gear. I carry a knife, 20 feet of thin rope, popup flares and a whistle in my PFD. (I carry a few other items in my fanny pack). So far I have not found a replacement PFD which might be comfortable paddling with the capacity to carry all this junk. Maybe I've got to go to Rev. Bob's extreme and sew a pouch onto my PFD in lieu of a pocket. -jerry. (From New Hampshire, where we are finally having a spell of mild weather.) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 07:15:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27238 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:15:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27233 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18132 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6UEEnO13890; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:14:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330103b78b7d31f49b_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:12:56 -0500 To: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>, "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 9:11 AM -0400 7/30/01, Gerald Hawkins wrote: > >I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD, an excellent but >6-year-old model that I've (uhmmm) outgrown. [SNIP] I paddle with an old (going on five years now) Lotus Rio Grande. Still looks like new. The new models have better pockets, but one nice thing is that Lotus makes some fun accessories that you can add to the basic pack. I have their backpack attachment. This straps on the back and is great for various emergency gear. I also use it to carry a Platypus water pouch in the summer, and a small thermos in the winter. The pack has a low profile and doesn't interfere with a layback roll. They also make some towrope bags, though I prefer the backpack. The PFD's are great too, really tough. I know that Patagonia owns them now, but I suspect the quality is still as good as when I got mine. We've had this discussion before, but the only packs I know of that have a back pocket are the Palm's, and they are not technically "legal" in the US. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 07:36:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03387 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03382 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02824 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18469; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010730102630.029a9b20_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:30:43 -0400 To: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>, Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>, "\"Rev. Bob Carter\"_at_" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <p04330103b78b7d31f49b_at_[24.132.254.174]> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:12 PM 7/30/01 -0500, Patrick Maun wrote: >At 9:11 AM -0400 7/30/01, Gerald Hawkins wrote: >> >>I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD, an excellent but >>6-year-old model that I've (uhmmm) outgrown. >[SNIP] > >I paddle with an old (going on five years now) Lotus Rio Grande. Still >looks like new. The new models have better pockets, but one nice thing is >that Lotus makes some fun accessories that you can add to the basic pack. >I have their backpack attachment. This straps on the back and is great for >various emergency gear. I also use it to carry a Platypus water pouch in >the summer, and a small thermos in the winter. The pack has a low profile >and doesn't interfere with a layback roll. I've got a Serratus PFD that has plenty of pockets and straps on the back as well. I've also attached a hydration system to it on occasion but mostly just carry water bottles now. The Serratus is made in Canada and doesn't have the official U.S. Coast Guard label on it, but I've heard that it now meets the requirements. I've never actually been stopped by the Coast Guard and had my PFD checked though. >We've had this discussion before, but the only packs I know of that have a >back pocket are the Palm's, and they are not technically "legal" in the US. Modifying an approved PFD by sewing on a pocket invalidates the approval as well. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 09:33:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08808 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08803 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18412 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id d.f3.d77e2df (16781); Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <f3.d77e2df.2896e330_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:20:00 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Another gator story To: dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-27 22:04:56 EDT, you write: << Sandy, can I send this on minus your addy to a cat and dog list I'm on? Or would you rather I didn't? >> Of course, anybody can feel free to forward...I guess there's some additional info that might be better off removed. sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 10:04:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17946 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17941 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09032 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.9a.17c87799 (16781) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9a.17c87799.2896e6c4_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:35:16 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-07-30 10:45:36 EDT, jaf30_at_cornell.edu writes: << Modifying an approved PFD by sewing on a pocket invalidates the approval as well. >> I believe someone once said that they used a fanny pack over their back/shoulders by "threading" it through the back/shoulders "straps" of their PFDs. and if you can understand that..congratulations..i know it sounds convoluted :) sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 10:19:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21648 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21643 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23560 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id AAEF39BBD; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.92), claiming to be "firewall1" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdC63951; Mon Jul 30 12:14:43 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6P06M>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:13:31 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9E3_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Outfit3029_at_aol.com'" <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>, "'Gypsykayak_at_aol.com'" <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Another gator story Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:13:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net :-) That's kinda like beating someone's fist senseless with your face, right? > > > Rick, > The only way that dog could do serious damage to an (8-12') > gator would be > to cause a serious obstruction in the airway or digestive tract. > Bruce McC > WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 10:28:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24651 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24645 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00775 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f6UGCHO25807 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:12:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330106b78b99659509_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010730102630.029a9b20_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell . edu> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <5.0.1.4.2.20010730102630.029a9b20_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:10:27 -0500 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:30 AM -0400 7/30/01, John Fereira wrote: > >Modifying an approved PFD by sewing on a pocket invalidates the >approval as well. I was wondering about this as the Lotus pack attaches via straps (it'd pretty seamless) and its not sewn on. Would this be considered modifying as it isn't a permanent attachment? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 10:38:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27711 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27706 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11334 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26833 invoked by alias); 30 Jul 2001 17:35:10 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 25493 invoked by uid 0); 30 Jul 2001 17:34:31 -0000 Received: from dialuph67.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (207.225.88.67) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 17:34:31 -0000 Message-ID: <02af01c11920$2e95c660$c558e1cf_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: "Gerald Foodman" <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net>, "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOEAJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> <007401c11898$e2799900$8d19480c_at_default> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Matt is wrong on rudders Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:50:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gerald writes: > > I also have a Solstice GTS (with rudder). There is no need for a rudder on > this boat either. But there is a very big difference between a boat needing > a rudder and a rudder providing a definite benefit. Of safety? I have seen the GTS blow downwind <leecock> in 20-25 knots when a strength challenged paddler couldn't get it to push up though the wind. There was no swell to hide behind. A rudder was the only way she could get the boat turned, short of a tow. Steve Scherrer Alder Creek Kayak and Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Foodman" <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net> To: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>; "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Matt is wrong on rudders > Let me say first that I have for years owned Matt's Mariner Express (without > rudder of course) and think it is a terrific boat. I have also paddled > other Mariners and find them uniformly excellent. There is no need for a > rudder on these boats. > > I also have a Solstice GTS (with rudder). There is no need for a rudder on > this boat either. But there is a very big difference between a boat needing > a rudder and a rudder providing a definite benefit. > > All of Matt's anti rudder arguments are carefully thought out and based on > long experience. I won't repeat them. They are mostly correct, especially > his list of rudder disadvantages. > > My bottom line experience, however, with both boats over numerous years is > overwhelming clear. The rudder saves energy when travelling longer > distances in a straight line between two points, in moderate conditions, > with winds up to 25 knots. Far more energy than any lost to rudder drag. > No verbal arguments can counteract this clear experience. I would always > choose the Solstice over the Express for this type of travel. > > Let me emphasize; the rudder is for saving energy, not for turning, going > through slalom gates or rock gardens, surfing big waves. > > Nevertheless, my next boat, if and when I raise the money for it, will be a > Kevlar Mariner II with sliding seat. I will keep my GTS and mostly use its > rudder when I paddle it, and keep the Express as well. > > Jerry > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 12:03:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24920 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24915 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16947 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13014 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02060 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22175 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eamail1-out.unisys.com (eamail1-out.unisys.com [192.61.61.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09898 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com [192.61.146.102]) by eamail1-out.unisys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06640; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:05:32 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-6.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <PTS2H1ZL>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:06:24 -0500 Message-ID: <D5AB0A4390F1D111A7DB00104B943DD605AB30A1_at_US-EA-EXCH-2.ea.un isys.com> From: "Dickson, Dana A." <dana.dickson_at_unisys.com> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: "'ratten_at_uow.edu.au'" <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Night Navigation Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:06:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Peter, This is a very timely question for me. Two weeks ago I installed a Nexus 85E compass on my kayak. This compass comes with a manufacturer installed LED light system. The system is designed for 12 volt DC power but will work, albeit at lower light output, with a 9 volt battery as a power supply. I have also modified two boat compasses to work with LED lights and home assembled 6 volt power supplies. The Richie Angler worked very well, since I was able to use the moveable sun shade as a LED holder. I have also used small light sticks held in place with duct tape as a compass light. By careful positioning of the tape the glare/contrast inferference with reading the compass can be minimized. I have also modified a Petzl Duo so that the low beam lamp is covered with a red filter, this provided enough illumiation to read the compass without compromising my night vision. Dana > -----Original Message----- > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:43:40 +1000 > From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> > Subject: [Paddlewise] Night Navigation > > G'day all: I would be interested in views from folks > who have tried an > internally lit compass versus a standard compass lit by a > torch or some > other external source on long night crossings etc. > So far I have only used a cyalume to give me enough to > read a standard > compass by on a dark night. Need to upgrade my compass so > I see there are > internally lit compasses on the market, but none that I can see > specifically for kayaking. > The key issue for me is preventing sea sickness, that > is, head down > following a bearing, which even with the broad, even spread > of a cyalume > or Krill type light, can be an issue on a rock 'n' roll > moonless night. I > have read John Dowd's comments in his treatise on long distance sea > touring, who for those who don't have his book, suggests a > cyalume or > similar source tucked into your hat band, to give you a nice broad > illumination. > Conversely, the other issue for me is glare from direct > strong sunlight > during the day. Has anyone tried the compass types which > have sunshields? > > Cheers, Peter Rattenbury, Wollongong, Australia. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 12:21:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00897 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00866 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02601 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16470 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02164 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25363 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:05:49 -0700 (PDT) From: kattenbo_at_greennet.net Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.147.1.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20293 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kattenbont4.lotus.com ([66.31.131.149]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6UIGZg02650; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: kattenbo_at_greennet.net To: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build M9_05202001 Beta 2 May 20, 2001 Message-ID: <OF8B9C41F1.F76B2159-ON85256A99.00568A47_at_greennet.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:17:46 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Client on Keith Attenborough/CAM/Lotus(Build M9_05202001 Beta 2|May 20, 2001) at 07/30/2001 02:18:15 PM, Serialize complete at 07/30/2001 02:18:15 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gerald Hawkins wrote: <snip> I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD, an excellent but 6-year-old model that I've (uhmmm) outgrown. My PFD has one very large pocket, one smaller web pocket and clips for emergency flasher and knife. <snip> -jerry. (From New Hampshire, where we are finally having a spell of mild weather.) Jerry; I've paddled with the Serratus for about two years, and just picked up (and used for the first time yesterday) a Lotus Sea Sherman. As described by John, the Serratus has three good sized bellows pockets on the front, as well as a ladder webbing strap and a knife/whistle loop, plus a large pouch pocket in the pack. Floatation is provided by vertical battens which made it immediately comfortable as they sorta "hinge" at the seams to wrap around you. Center zipper, waist strap and one adjust strap on each side. Floatation continues in the shoulder straps, making a good boat rest for longer carries. Carried, flares, mirrors, flashlight, extra hood, sling, nav gear, knife strobe, and that was just on the front. Used the back pouch for hydration system with a lot of room to spare. Even with the gear had plenty of floatation and was very comfortable. The Lotus Sea Sherman is very different. Low riding, somewhat thicker one piece "shield" in front, thinner, taller back panel. Two stretchy pockets on the front panel, strobe patch on the back (where it's hard to reach to turn on the strobe). Side zipper and stretchy side panels with waist strap and two adjusting straps on each side, plus shoulder straps are adjustable. Pockets big enough to hold flares, mirror, flashlight, whistle, sling and neoprene cap (surprised me given the visuall size of the pockets). There is an optional back pouch which I haven't tried. For one paddle (two hours), it was very comfortable and I think I'm going to be happy with it. The reason for the addition of the Sea Sherman (besides it being time for a new toy) was because the Serratus is somewhat bulky if you really want to crunch forward when setting up for and recovering from some of the rolling positions. I also found that I could get more degrees of rotation when trying to twist around for some (not yet successful) stern to bow rolls. Also, I'm probably going to get a tuiliq and wanted something low profile to fit under it (not traditional, but it's what the Coast Guard wants). Either one is a great vest, comfortable and with reasonable carry capacity. Usual disclaimer -- not associated with either company. Good luck. Keith ---- North Shore Kayak Instruction, Inc. NDK Romany Explorer, red over white Greenland "Home-builts" (various) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 12:22:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01120 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01115 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03106 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16644 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02171 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25628 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21629 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ProjectSouth (user-38lcn2e.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.92.78]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA01547 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: <livinfree_at_mindspring.com> From: "Living Free" <livinfree_at_mindspring.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] PFD's Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:08:25 -0400 Message-ID: <MABBKMHMPBOKODPMOAIJOEKKCCAA.livinfree_at_mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B647800.3EA1EE83_at_mtaonline.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I had thought that making modifications like yours to the PFD would mean it is no longer certified (or whatever) by the Coast Guard. Has the CG ever seen the PFD? Did they say anything? If this is allowable, I would love to make these modifications. I just don't want a big ticket. In my experience, the CG isn't so bad with citations, but park rangers, sheriff, etc. are. (don't get busted without a whistle in Georgia or Florida...trust me). Dan > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Rev. Bob Carter > > I always wear mine because I also carry safety gear in and on my > PFD. Usually I carry in the pockets 3 flares, a whistle, and a couple > energy bars. I also carry a knife clipped onto the outside of the vest. > Sewn on to the back of the PFD is a survival kit containing various > survival items including matches, space blanket, garbage bags, first > aid, parachute cord, signal mirror ect. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 13:22:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19495 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19490 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from internet.ntrs.com (gate.ntrs.com [192.77.161.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27963 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gate.ntrs.com id AA15376 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net); Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:21:41 -0500 Received: by gate.ntrs.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:21:41 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NORTHERN TRUST From: "Evan Dallas" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <86256A99.006FD4DA.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:21:27 -0700 Subject: [Paddlewise] Nootka sound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We're planning a 7-9 day kayak trip to the Nootka sound area in a couple weeks. We did this area a half dozen years ago, circumnavigating Nootka island, but with very little guidance regarding areas to explore, camping spots, etc., and subsequently came away thinking this wasn't one of our favorite areas. Since then, I've heard several people rave about it, saying it's their very favorite place to go paddling etc. So, we decided to give it another go to see what we missed (but bypassing the rather unexciting portion of the trip through the backside of the island this time)! Does anyone have any trip tips (particularly cool areas to explore, "hidden" (or not hidden) camps that you'd be willing to share with a fellow Paddlewiser (after all, we're practically family here...)? We're mostly experienced paddlers who are fairly comfortable on the outer coast, but don't necessarily "need" the excitement of paddling that area if some of the more protected areas are equally interesting. I have read through the trip description in the Kayak routes of the Pacific Northwest book -- just looking for any supplemental info. Evan Woodinville, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 15:21:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25179 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25142 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pineapple.arctic.net (pineapple.arctic.net [198.51.13.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28771 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dh-cherry-10.dialup.arctic.net [209.124.129.64]) by pineapple.arctic.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60228U6000L600S0V35) with SMTP id net for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:20:31 -0800 Message-ID: <023301c11945$d8788760$68817cd1_at_oemcomputer> From: "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw_at_arctic.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B63B315.E28B06DB_at_mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 14:19:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net And depending on the trip it is not a bad idea to wear a drysuit. <Bill> Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska. N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' (WGS 84) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:54 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] stupid is as stupid does > Sad note from Alaska, > The bodies of two kayakers were found yesterday near Cordovia, > Alaska. They had been missing since June 28th. The boat was found I > believe on the 30th of June washed ashore. The State Troopers reported > that neither was wearing a lifevest! > I hate to critize the dead but in the cold waters of the Gulf of > Alaska not wearing their lifevests was stupid. Granted maybe they would > not have survived the accident even with PFD's but wearing them would > have given them a better chance at survival. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 16:45:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20722 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20717 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from online1.magnus1.com (online1.magnus1.com [207.114.48.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03620 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magnus.net ([207.114.80.88]) by online1.magnus1.com (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id TAA14220 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B65EF8A.F407E711_at_magnus.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:36:42 -0400 From: Ellis Andersen <ellis_at_magnus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise References: <200107262020.NAA12323_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <006c01c1187f$44025000$21d769d1_at_bx6q00b> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Winters wrote: > Niels wrote: > > >I have DEFINITELY noticed a decrease in speed in my Meridian, when the skeg > >is extended either most or all of the way. Since my energy output is not > >constant, it is difficult to get a precise on how much drag is being > >created. > > WOW!!!! Hard to believe. According to my text on Psyhcokinetics humans can't > detect much better than +/- 15% effort 50% of the time. I would get in touch > with the Dagger people about that. > I would definitely expect an experience paddler to be able to detect the effect of the skeg (or a rudder) during turning moves, but not in a straight line. > Gabriel wrote: > >wouldn't be saying that if your QCC boats weren't so well built > >John. > > Would too. :-) All boats have their weaknesses, even the QCC - I hear the 700 hatches leak? Despite a similar hull design, I find the 700 (and a previous try with the 500) does not track or handle near as predictably as my Seda Impulse. (Comments provided with the utmost respect for John Winters). > Matt wrote: > >I can assure you that if you start surfing a steep following sea and the > >rudder is returning to the waves crest while you are sliding sideways down > >the face you will notice it. In fact, it will probably grab almost all your > >attention for a while. > > Hasn't happened yet but I look forward to it. I have recently been experimenting with stronger seas (2' - 4') and found that anticipating following crests and adjusting the rudder to a more moderate reentry helps a lot. I'd be interested to hear if this is an ineffective strategy for stronger seas. Regards, Ellis North East, MD Seda Impulse & Tango *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 18:28:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21578 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21567 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19330 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-155.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.155]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28495 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:27:37 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B6608FF.7B2506B9_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:25:19 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's References: <MABBKMHMPBOKODPMOAIJOEKKCCAA.livinfree_at_mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I knew in sewing the survival pack on that my PFD would no longer be a certified PFD. However I have never been checked inspite of paddling by the coast guard base in Sitka many many time. A coast guard friend of mine said he was more concerned that I was wearing it then what I put on it. He was the chopper pilot who was most likely going to be looking for me. by the way I learned several years ago as a raft guide in West Virginia that if the label that specifics the type of PFD fades or falls off, the vest is no longer legal. However there was no law saying they had to wear it! Such is life Bob Alaska Living Free wrote: > I had thought that making modifications like yours to the PFD would mean it is no longer certified > (or whatever) by the Coast Guard. Has the CG ever seen the PFD? Did they say anything? If this is > allowable, I would love to make these modifications. I just don't want a big ticket. In my > experience, the CG isn't so bad with citations, but park rangers, sheriff, etc. are. (don't get > busted without a whistle in Georgia or Florida...trust me). > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 18:28:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21579 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21573 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19338 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010731012744.EKPZ553.femail30.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:27:44 -0700 Message-ID: <003501c11960$99ea52b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <5.0.1.4.2.20010730102630.029a9b20_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> <p04330106b78b99659509_at_[24.132.254.174]> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:32:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Patrick Maun" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> > At 10:30 AM -0400 7/30/01, John Fereira wrote: > > > >Modifying an approved PFD by sewing on a pocket invalidates the > >approval as well. > > I was wondering about this as the Lotus pack attaches via straps > (it'd pretty seamless) and its not sewn on. Would this be considered > modifying as it isn't a permanent attachment? Under Canadian rules, it apparently is not, which is why Serratus provides accessories like mini-packs and platypus water bottle carriers as strap-on attachments. Given that Canadian rules lag, but generally match US rules it is possibly true in the States as well. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 18:32:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24098 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24093 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23685 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21526 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02344 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21004 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16235 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010731012209.OACJ14213.femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:22:09 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c1195f$d1d836c0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <D5AB0A4390F1D111A7DB00104B943DD605AB30A1_at_US-EA-EXCH-2.ea.un isys.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Night Navigation Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:26:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Dickson, Dana A." <dana.dickson_at_unisys.com> > Peter, > > This is a very timely question for me. Two weeks ago I installed a Nexus > 85E compass on my kayak. This compass comes with a manufacturer installed > LED light system. The system is designed for 12 volt DC power but will > work, albeit at lower light output, with a 9 volt battery as a power supply. If you can get access to the resistor in that thing, you could probably switch it to one that would allow the same brightness with the 9 volt. Peter: I have a Silva (now Nexus) 70UNE, which is an illuminated compass. The thing that bothers me is that the unit uses two small lithium watch cells. These last about 8 hours and cost several dollars a pair. Not a good solution. I'm hoping to rebuilt the innards to use a single AA cell someday. When I looked at the thing in the shop, I never would have guessed from its shape that it _didn't_ use a AA. I grow wiser every day. Many people don't like this compass, since it sits proud of the deck. I don't mind it and like the fact that I can take it out of its mount and hand hold it to take a bearing - useful for navigation (well, piloting actually). It doesn't need a shade so much, since it has a roughly vertical crystal. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 18:54:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00272 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00267 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08232 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-301.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.59]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03596 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:52:35 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B660EDA.5A246E7A_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:50:18 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gerald Hawkins wrote: > I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD,...... So far I have not > found a replacement PFD which might be comfortable paddling with the > capacity to carry all this junk. Maybe I've got to go to Rev. Bob's > extreme and sew a pouch onto my PFD in lieu of a pocket. The primary reason that I sewed on on my PFD was I have yet to find a PFD with enough pockets to contain all that I needed in a worse case senerio survival situation for Alaska. Bob, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 18:55:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00527 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00522 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com (imail_at_femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10455 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cb5090a ([24.178.209.58]) by femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010731015504.VUT2402.femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_cb5090a> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:55:04 -0700 Message-ID: <032f01c11962$55c5cb80$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> From: "Ron Dunnington" <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudder Drag Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:44:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have the QCC 500X and there is definitely a discernible difference with the rudder down. I can't quantify it but I do not use the rudder unless I absolutely have to, It's that noticeable. Ron *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 20:33:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01038 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01032 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20716 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwlink.com (ip38.gte14.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.154.38]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14637 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B6626AA.93B6D35E_at_nwlink.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:31:54 -0700 From: David Carlson <qajaq_at_nwlink.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010730090527.01824298_at_diablo.cisco.com> <3B660EDA.5A246E7A_at_mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The Palm Storm has four good sized pockets in the front and a big pocket in back. It is not available in the US, is not USCG approved, but you may be able to get one in Canada and for sure you can order one over the internet from the UK. I like mine. Dave Carlson "Rev. Bob Carter" wrote: > Gerald Hawkins wrote: > > > I've been looking for a replacement for my PFD,...... So far I have not > > found a replacement PFD which might be comfortable paddling with the > > capacity to carry all this junk. Maybe I've got to go to Rev. Bob's > > extreme and sew a pouch onto my PFD in lieu of a pocket. > > The primary reason that I sewed on on my PFD was I have yet to find a PFD with > enough pockets to contain all that I needed in a worse case senerio survival > situation for Alaska. > Bob, > Alaska > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Jul 30 21:36:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19649 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19644 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05108 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00443 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02426 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10383 Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13362 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vogmudet (ip-64-38-156-173.dialup.seanet.com [64.38.156.173]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA14101 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:20:58 -0700 Message-ID: <01C1193D.86707160.pac_at_premier1.net> From: "Peter A. Chopelas" <pac_at_premier1.net> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] badarkas [was:skegs and rudders and other stuff] Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:30:12 -0700 Organization: Peter Chopelas & Co. X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rex Roberton wrote: >>><snip> where can you buy one of these kayaks? Well, you can't buy one, you will have to build it. My kayak is a 32 lb skin boat built in the style of the Aleutian Baidarka. It's not an exact replica but all the basics are there, wood frame lashed and pegged, flexible skin, bifurcated bow, truncated stern, and a cockpit position that is set aft of the mid section. Very different than the Greenland designs. >>> Actually you can buy a ready made, hand crafted baidarka, at very competitive prices, from Willow Kayaks. E-mail is billow_at_capecod.net; phone (508)398-4992 (I have no affiliation with Willow Kayaks). They may have their web site up and running by now with more specifics, I think they will custom build one to your specs if you like, the weight is from 25 to 30 lbs., and cost from around $2500. depending on options. If you are so inclined you could just build one yourself for about $150 worth of materials, less if you are good at scavenging materials (my first one cost all of about $40, the most expensive part I purchased was the fabric at about $26, in addition to the salvaged wood, etc). There are several books available with detailed instructions and plans, or you can take a class as Rex did. I am just finishing my third one in about a year (This one is for my wife, one more to go and we will have one for each member of my family) . They come together real fast compared to other building methods and I find the evenings spent working with my hands a much needed break from my desk job. And the best part of all as far as I am concerned, you do not mess with itchy and smelly fiberglass. Wood frame, nylon or polyester fabric skin, with a synthetic sealer just painted on. If it was not for the low cost of building skin on frame kayaks I would not be able to afford to own kayaks for each member of my family. And the light weight and good performance is impossible to get any other way. My wife can hardly lift the commercial fiberglass hard shell kayaks, after using my skin on frame kayak (which she can lift with one hand) she will not even consider owning anything else. Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 04:21:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA23661 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23621 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:20:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kattenbo_at_greennet.net Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22971 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kattenbont4.lotus.com ([66.31.131.149]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f6VBKeX07637; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:20:40 -0400 (EDT) To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build M9_05202001 Beta 2 May 20, 2001 Message-ID: <OFA9959EEA.F92D132D-ON85256A9A.003E2D26_at_greennet.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:22:04 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Notes Client on Keith Attenborough/CAM/Lotus(Build M9_05202001 Beta 2|May 20, 2001) at 07/31/2001 07:22:18 AM, Serialize complete at 07/31/2001 07:22:18 AM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Wish I knew all the reasons behind it, but the Lotus strap on pocket is legal under Coast Guard rules (at least according to my local paddle shop), and Serratus has a US approved model that has a slightly smaller back pocket (I believe it is also a strap on) as well -- I think it was introduces about two years ago and was available when I got mine. May have to do with volume carried, etc. Keith ---- NDK Romany Explorer, red over white Greenland "Home-builts" (various) "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> Sent by: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net 07/30/01 09:32 PM To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> cc: Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's From: "Patrick Maun" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> > At 10:30 AM -0400 7/30/01, John Fereira wrote: > > > >Modifying an approved PFD by sewing on a pocket invalidates the > >approval as well. > > I was wondering about this as the Lotus pack attaches via straps > (it'd pretty seamless) and its not sewn on. Would this be considered > modifying as it isn't a permanent attachment? Under Canadian rules, it apparently is not, which is why Serratus provides accessories like mini-packs and platypus water bottle carriers as strap-on attachments. Given that Canadian rules lag, but generally match US rules it is possibly true in the States as well. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 04:51:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA03330 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03296 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:51:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14484 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-63.210.220.25.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [63.210.220.25]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA27049; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005701c119b7$791651e0$19dcd23f_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <kattenbo_at_greennet.net>, "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <OFA9959EEA.F92D132D-ON85256A9A.003E2D26_at_greennet.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:53:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <kattenbo_at_greennet.net> To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's > Wish I knew all the reasons behind it, but the Lotus strap on pocket is > legal under Coast Guard rules (at least according to my local paddle > shop), and Serratus has a US approved model that has a slightly smaller > back pocket (I believe it is also a strap on) as well -- I think it was > introduces about two years ago and was available when I got mine. May > have to do with volume carried, etc. > The USCG or its contractor checks the PFDs out with the pockets full of lead, i.e. the idea is to maximize the possible load in the volume of the pockets and the person. The USCG is probably figuring that it wants the guy who is smuggling gold into the US and swimming off of a ship can make it safely to shore and not sink. The USCG doesn't want additional things sewn on to a PFD because it would be permanent (and also might tear the material or whatever). The thought is probably with the strapped on stuff that the person could also jettison some of his gold and still make it in. US companies have been adding more and more pockets to their PFDs as well as increased flotation to accomodate them. When I got my first PFD it had what is now considered a tiny pocket but I was awfully pleased as none of the others had any at all. Feathercraft was selling a real nice one that they made themselves with large pockets that looked somewhat like a Serratus. I really eyed them for awhile. But by the time it came to replace my original PFD (you really should start thinking of doing this by the end of the third year, i.e. start checking it out for floatability and fabric and webbing strap strength; it depends on how much you paddle and are exposed to UV), Feathercraft has ceased making them. They were great looking and comfortable and only in yellow. A little later, the US companies started making two pocket ones but none of the foam seemed as nice as the Feathercraft one. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 08:53:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16602 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16596 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08827 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12222 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02683 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02628 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25289 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA30507; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:05:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200107311305.JAA30507_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:26:04 -0400 To: "Peter A. Chopelas" <pac_at_premier1.net>, "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] badarkas [was:skegs and rudders and other stuff] In-Reply-To: <01C1193D.86707160.pac_at_premier1.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 08:30 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Peter A. Chopelas wrote: > Rex Roberton wrote: >>>><snip> where can you buy one of these kayaks? Well, >you can't buy one, you will have to build it. My kayak is a 32 lb skin >boat built in the style of the Aleutian Baidarka. > >Actually you can buy a ready made, hand crafted baidarka, at very >competitive prices, from Willow Kayaks. E-mail is billow_at_capecod.net; > phone (508)398-4992 (I have no affiliation with Willow Kayaks). They may >have their web site up and running by now with more specifics, I think they >will custom build one to your specs if you like, the weight is from 25 to >30 lbs., and cost from around $2500. depending on options. Willow has a site at http://www.imaginelan.com/willow Disclaimer - I'm friends with Bill Low, and I'm currently hosting the Willow website. I have zero financial interest in Willow Kayaks. >If you are so inclined you could just build one yourself for about $150 >worth of materials, less if you are good at scavenging materials (my first >one cost all of about $40. I know of someone currently working on an all scrounged skin/frame - no purchased materials. A good place to start for getting information is the archives of the baidarka mailing list. The main page includes links to sites, and book reviews. http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka/ kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 08:53:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16609 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16604 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chmls20.mediaone.net (chmls20.mediaone.net [24.147.1.156]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08914 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bklap (83.host.nhboston.com [12.25.27.83]) by chmls20.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6VFpaZ21498 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008e01c119d8$ae76dbe0$531b190c_at_Eire.msft> From: "Brian Kelly" <bkelly_at_mediaone.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Tent Update Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:51:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks to everyone for the tent advice , we went for the SD Meteor Lite, definitely heavier than some of the others suggested but roomy and self standing which we like. Thanks, Brian Kelly *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 09:38:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29302 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29296 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13481 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA31204 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:13:18 -0400 Message-Id: <200107311613.MAA31204_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:33:45 -0400 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Different pickup truck rack. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I recently saw a pickup track that some people might be interested in. The owner had had it built. The front half of the 2 kayaks were supported in the bed of the pickup truck. The owner had installed U bolts on his truck bed toolbox that he tied the kayak bow toggles to. He had lined the truck bed with fairly thick rubber mat. He also had a section of rubber mat covering the tailgate. Now for the interesting part. The back portion of the rack was built from 2 inch square steel stock. The rack inserted into the trailer hitch socket. When looked at from above it was T shaped, when looked at from the side there was bend that brought the cross brace up even with the truck bed. There were tiedown loops welded to the cross bar, and the cross bar was also padded. The owner also had lights built into the rack. So it looked sort of like a trailer, but without wheels. Hopefully my description makes sense. I don't have pictures, I saw the rack at Lake Quanapowit (sp?) in Wakefield Massachusetts. The owner said the rack was based on something he saw in a Bass fishing catalog, he had had it built locally. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 11:18:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29940 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29935 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00146 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21710 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02878 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01982 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18952 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6VGgtV08932 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:43:07 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f6VGgR208890 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:42:27 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:42:27 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] RFI book seakayakrescues and THANKS Message-ID: <3B66B5C3.3892.A0B8B5_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Folks, First many thanks to all those who responded to my request regarding the paddle ferrule. Now another request: Sea Kayak Rescue: The Definitive Guide to Modern Reentry and Recovery Techniques by Roger Schumann Jan Shriner published by Globe Pequot Press Pub. Date: May 2001 This new book showed up on a search for literature earlier today. Any Paddlewisers already checked it out and are willing to share their subjective and objective impressions? For 15$ I guess I will give it a shot anyway. Cheers Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 14:47:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03797 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03792 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:46:56 -0700 (PDT) From: HTERVORT_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11416 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HTERVORT_at_aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.12d.238de6a (17384) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:45:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12d.238de6a.289880e8_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:45:12 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PFD's To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Regarding all the discussion about modifying PFDs -- the principal guiding factor should be your safety. I've modified and attached to many PFDs with the attitude that I was the one who had to survive the swim, but always realized that some authority figure with an ax to grind could possibly ticket me. Some safety facts to consider: -- A back pack on a PFD will alter the center of buoyancy of the PFD/wearer and could be responsible for turning you face-down in the water if you are carrying buoyant objects (like a paddle float or dry bag) or if it retains air. If filled with heavy objects, it could make it hard to swim on your stomach or effect re-entries. -- Pockets on the front of the PFD severely hamper your ability to get back on top of the boat in case of a wet exit and reentry. I've seen hundreds of instances of students being unable to get up on their boats because they were wearing bulky (thick) small-footprint vests and/or because they had pockets which would hook on deck fittings, or because pockets were filled and therefore increased the thickness of the PFD chest section, have pockets on my vest and I have also had problems getting onto the higher portions of certain boats during practice when I was tired or cold. Go out and do rescue and swim practice with your vest on, before and after any modifications. Try wet exits, rescues, surf swimming and the rest with the maximum amount of gear you might ever put in the pockets, in all sorts of combinations, in varying sea conditions. If any of the mods you make interfere with your mobility or position in the water, modify your loading scheme or scrap the modification. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 14:55:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06646 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06619 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18237 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01326 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03023 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11740 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00537 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15021 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B66FFC4.1A4FD08C_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:58:12 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RFI book seakayakrescues and THANKS References: <3B66B5C3.3892.A0B8B5_at_localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ulli Hoeger wrote: > > Now another request: > Sea Kayak Rescue: The Definitive Guide to Modern Reentry and > Recovery Techniques by Roger Schumann Jan Shriner > published by Globe Pequot Press Pub. Date: May 2001 > This new book showed up on a search for literature earlier today. > Any Paddlewisers already checked it out and are willing to share > their subjective and objective impressions? > For 15$ I guess I will give it a shot anyway. I have a copy and will be posting a review of it Real Soon Now. It's not perfect (they left out a couple of my favorites), but it's the best rescue book I've seen. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 15:35:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18920 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18910 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe21.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.125]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19217 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:35:07 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [207.5.160.63] From: "Ken Schroeter" <kenschroeter_at_hotmail.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] PFD's and Bouyancy Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:37:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <OE217bieLYCT4aJ6pkN00006c9b_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2001 22:35:07.0114 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C9804A0:01C11A11] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Be careful filling big PFD pockets... Remember that the more stuff you add to a PFD, the less useful it is, if that stuff doesn't add buoyancy... A "Mod 1 Mark 0" generic body weighs about 12 pounds in water, and most paddling PFDs offer 12-15 pounds of buoyancy. Everything adds weight that subtracts from useful buoyancy. Less means more: less buoyancy means more work to stay afloat, more work means more body heat loss, and more body heat loss means more likely you die. Just a thought :-) Ken Schroeter (who paddles year round in New England with a 3 mm NRS Farmer John because I hate being cold and it adds floatation because I hate drowning) OTC Millennium 160 Laconia, NH, USA 43°32'25"N 71°28'59"W "Watery tarts, lying around in ponds, handing out swords, is no basis for a system of government!" -Monty Python *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 15:39:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19277 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19272 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink2.onlink.net (onlink2.onlink.net [206.108.253.66]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20372 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bx6q00b (hunt1-19.onlink.net [209.105.215.20]) by onlink2.onlink.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6VMdHp67078 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:39:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:37:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt and Kevin have suggested that the rudder can contribute to the capsizing moment during a broach. I have not had this experience so I wonder what tests they used to determine this and how did they determine how much capsize moment was caused by the rudder and how much contributed by other factors. Matt also mentioned the boat sliding down the face of a wave. Can you expand on that, Matt, by describing the type of wave you had in mind and at what point on the wave that this might occur as well as the angle of the boat relative . Matt also mentioned that when a boat was heeled enough for the capsizing moment to become insignificant the boat would already be well on its way to capsize. How does that fit with the various force field diagrams of breaking waves that one sees in wave research? Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 17:12:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18884 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18879 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web12406.mail.yahoo.com (web12406.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.133]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02287 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010801001153.6038.qmail_at_web12406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.95.81.148] by web12406.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:53 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Wagenbach <wagen19_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudder Controls To: Ron Dunnington <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com>, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <00c101c1175f$14a3dde0$3ad1b218_at_rchstr1.mn.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net --- Ron Dunnington <rbdunningtons1_at_home.com> wrote: > I have a boat with a rudder and I've always wondered why they didn't > cross the > cables so that when the right rudder is deployed (turning right) you > could use > the left foot, forcing the left leg down, thus keeping the right leg > in a > raised position suitable for a right turn. > Because you didn't ask "them" to do it! Presumably there would be a way to rig this up without too much drama on most boats. Some other possible reasons, in rapidly decreasing order of significance: 1. The direct lead is most direct, or "obvious," so it probably was independently invented whenever someone started installing rudders without thinking about what an experienced paddler habitually does with their legs. Once this becomes commonplace, no one wants to buck the trend. 2. Airplanes have used the same rudder pedal action almost as long as there have been airplanes. Whether there was already a precedent for this, I don't know. 3. The direct lead saves a tiny amount of cable. Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 22:05:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16673 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16668 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15406 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11377 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03189 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25556 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02462 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-8-45.oz.net [216.39.135.237]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15363; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:16:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:24:47 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEGEBMCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My (partial) notes from when MS Excel would only accept 256 letters in a cell say: Aquila: (ad 7/96Skj#54--vol:105.7)(5/97Skj#58--18-10.4x22.4x111x?x29.9x16.1, vol.dist:23.8/47.6/39.6)(OP#1--12.8x16.5)(web vol. 111 same dist.) interpretation: The German Seakajaker magazine 7/96 had an ad that said the liter equivalent to 105.7 gallons. The later 5/97 issue and the company website said 111 gallons. Millenium: (dim.10/99SK)(ad 11/95Skj#51p11&2/95Skj#47--18-4.5x22.4x97.7=17.7/47/33x12.6x28.3x16.1, )(9.6 b,6day,16.5x11.8s)(5/97Skj#58--12.6x29.5x16.1)(Svima97/98 cat.--22.8w, vol.102.9=18.5/54/30.4, LC=29.5x15.4)(99/00broc.18-3.25x21.65x97.7=18.5/51.5/27.7)(01CBG--18-3x22x13 ) Sea Kayaker magazine 10/99 said 100.8 gallons (converted from the cu.ft. they use x 7.48). Svima Sports 97/98 catalog said 102.9 gallons. The company brochure and several issues of the German Seakajaker magazine list volumes equivalent to 97.7 gallons. I've paddled both but only in calm conditions I liked both of them then. The Aquila was more maneuverable and I thought it would be best for a bigger guy. The millennium was one of only 4 kayaks I liked out of 25 kayaks I tested at the 1999 West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 22:05:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16738 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16733 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15483 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11477 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.myers.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03198 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04975 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:49:33 -0700 (PDT) From: HTERVORT_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21344 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HTERVORT_at_aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id t.28.18f59f64 (4542); Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <28.18f59f64.2898c81b_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:48:59 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Night Navigation To: michaeldaly_at_home.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 7/30/01 6:34:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michaeldaly_at_home.com writes: In a message dated 7/30/01 6:34:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michaeldaly_at_home.com writes: > > Peter: > I have a Silva (now Nexus) 70UNE, which is an illuminated compass. (Snip) > It doesn't need a shade so much, since it has a roughly vertical crystal. > I like the UN / UNE compasses because the flat card allows you to use either the markings on the front edge of the card or those on the (back) top of the card. Most compasses only allow you to read the front of a domed card. In harsh lighting, the back-top is sometimes in heavy shadow and the front is easily read, while at other times the front is in glare and the back easily seen. This doubles your chances of being able to read the compass in all conditions. Also, reading the top-back of the card is more natural for me since it turns in a direction relative to the boat that makes it easier for me to steer by. Reading from the front of the compass card seems backwards and is less intuitive for me, the slightly dyslexic eno. ;^) Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 22:31:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24516 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24475 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00338 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-5-42.oz.net [216.39.135.42]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05917; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:39:05 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEMEBNCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Oops! You said Viviane/Aquilla and in my rush to answer and get going I somehow wrote about the Millennium rather than the Viviane. notes say: (dim. 4/00SK)(SvimaSport97/98 cat.--19-0.75x20.9x106x33.9x18)(vol. dist. 23.8/50.2/31.7)(16.1x9b,16.5x11.8s)(I think derived from "Avalon")(5/97Skj#58--"Avalon Viviane" 19-0.7x21.6x105.7= 23.8/51.5/30.4x?x33.9x18.1)(01CBG--19-1x22x14) Sea Kayaker magazine got 115.2 gallons for it. SvimaSport catalog said 106, 5/97 Seakajaker wrote 105.7. Since Sea Kayaker measures all the volume inside the outer skins shape it is usually 4 or 5 % higher than one might get trying to fill the kayak with measured amounts of water. I paddled the Viviane for several hours but not in rough water. I had watched it in rougher water with some sea kayaker testers earlier and while it is a very fast kayak (for a very strong paddler pushing hard) there was a lot more drag at normal paddling speeds due to the extra wetted surface inherent in the longer length. It was also kind of slow to turn so I would not recommend it for a high wind situation if not loaded down with gear. I'm 190 pounds and over 6' tall. I liked the Millennium much better but a very big paddler might prefer the Viviane. I could turn an Aquila 180 degrees in 10 seconds using a strong lean, it took me 14 in the Viviane. Held level throughout the same turn the numbers were 19 and 29 seconds respectively. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 22:44:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28507 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28502 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11208.mail.yahoo.com (web11208.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.190]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA09585 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010801054348.37313.qmail_at_web11208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.47.103] by web11208.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:43:48 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:43:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] What Is A Surf Ski Type Workout Boat? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net What are the characteristics of the following boat? What is it particularly good for, ...not good for? I have become aware of one for sale, but I have not seen it. Ocean Kayak Sprinter - 17' by 22", surf-ski-type workout boat, yellow polyethylene, designed by Greg Barton and TimNemier, with rudder and hatches. --TB Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 23:01:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04193 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04154 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au (mail.amsa.gov.au.253.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.253.11] (may be forged)) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18732 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:01:08 -0700 (PDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Paddlewise] A good time to stay home Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:00:47 +1000 Message-ID: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D593_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: A good time to stay home Thread-Index: AcEaT07T5k9Tb0liQYqIUUBYyQrAEg== From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id XAA04160 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I doubt if this got in any overseas media but some may be interested. We have been have some very freaky weather here causing wave sizes of huge proportions. A pressure system near Sydney as resulted in 10-15Metres (35-50 feet)!! waves hitting the coast. One of the wave measuring buoys was recording readings between 9-11 Metres. The footage on the news looks awesome and there have been several boating accidents, some of them should never have set sail in the conditions. There have also been several rescues of surfers trying to ride these waves. Having grown up near the coast I don't recall ever hearing of waves of this size. It reminds me of that movie with Patrick Swayze, where he is a surfer/bank robber and in the end heads for Bells Beach Australia for a 50 year storm. I don't know about others but I find the sea incredibly beautiful to watch in these conditions - providing I am on the shore. David Australia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Jul 31 23:59:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20127 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20122 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22739 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f716uqt19921; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 02:56:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:58:42 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53o) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <1802548353.20010731235842_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A good time to stay home In-Reply-To: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D593_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> References: <CC2F47E6E7C60747999D57F7AB335F6D02D593_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 11:00:47 PM PDT, Whyte, David wrote: > We have been have some very freaky weather here causing wave sizes > of huge proportions. A pressure system near Sydney as resulted in > 10-15Metres (35-50 feet)!! waves hitting the coast. One of the wave > measuring buoys was recording readings between 9-11 Metres. > I don't know about others but I find the sea incredibly beautiful to > watch in these conditions - providing I am on the shore. I too, love storms and big seas. Though I've seen some pretty big surf here, I certainly haven't seen 10-15 Meter shore break. It must be lovely! Of course, with waves that size hitting the beach here, my house might end up doing a bit of surfing. :-) Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Sun Jul 01 2001 - 00:35:25 PDT
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:30:44 PDT