At 4:00 PM +1000 8/1/01, Whyte, David wrote: >[SNIP] > >I don't know about others but I find the sea incredibly beautiful to >watch in these conditions - providing I am on the shore. Let us know if you find some pictures or video on the net. I'm sure others, myself included, would love to see them. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 04:32:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA14980 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14975 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.143]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10771 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([65.2.168.174]) by femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010801113222.DZLF25929.femail16.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_[192.168.1.2]>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 04:32:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: guille_at_mail148.pair.com Message-Id: <a05010404b78d94bad037_at_[192.168.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> References: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:32:18 -0400 To: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I didn't read the suggestion that a rudder/skeg can contribute to the capsizing moment in a broach, but I agree with the idea. During a broach the kayak is turning hard from straight down the wave to parallel with the wave. If the rudder/skeg is resisting this tendency to turn there will be pressure on the down-wave side of the rudder/skeg. If this pressure is below the vertical center of gravity of the kayak, it will be applying a capsize moment pushing the paddler towards the down-wave side. Since the role of the rudder/skeg in following seas is to resist a broach, it will do so by applying creating a resistance force which also creates a capsize moment. I don't know if the contributed capsize moment is enough to worry about in most conditions, but I accept that it is a inevitable consequence of a rudder/skeg in broaching conditions. One reason it might not be a problem is that the rudder/skeg will presumably reduce the likelihood of a broach, and thus the increased capsizing moment might be a worthwhile tradeoff for the reduced tendency to broach. If one were to broach and end up in a side surfing condition, the sideways motion of the boat on the face of the wave will also put a sideways force on the rudder/skeg which will in turn create a capsizing moment Nick At 6:37 PM -0400 7/31/01, John Winters wrote: >Matt and Kevin have suggested that the rudder can contribute to the >capsizing moment during a broach. I have not had this experience so I wonder >what tests they used to determine this and how did they determine how much >capsize moment was caused by the rudder and how much contributed by other >factors. > >Matt also mentioned the boat sliding down the face of a wave. Can you expand >on that, Matt, by describing the type of wave you had in mind and at what >point on the wave that this might occur as well as the angle of the boat >relative . > >Matt also mentioned that when a boat was heeled enough for the capsizing >moment to become insignificant the boat would already be well on its way to >capsize. How does that fit with the various force field diagrams of breaking >waves that one sees in wave research? > >Cheers, > >John Winters > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 05:23:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00133 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00128 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11980 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f71CNKZ05190 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:23:20 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f71CNJ223764 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:23:19 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:23:18 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Regarding modifying pfd's Message-ID: <3B67CA86.13044.1C7B11_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, just my two cents. Wear a good life jacket all the time, and outfit it with everything you want -just keep your own safety in mind. If the pfd isn't approved by the national authorities (I think it should be approved by some kind of creditable organization) or probably not anymore after all the modifications you did on it just follow the rules. According to the Canadian rules , and I think the most in the US are similar in this aspects, you have to have a approved pfd on board, you don't have to wear it (crazy, isn't it?). You don't have to wear any pfd, so why should they care if you wear a not approved one? Only thing to do is to get a cheap,-or not so cheap, approved spare and use that as padding or seat cushion.You can get approved inflatable pfd's of the size of a funny pack. Maybe the perfect backup for those cases were you don't have space to store a normal one. Another word to the Serratus pfd's. Yesterday I visited the new MEC store in Halifax. There are now at least 6 different pfd models from Serratus, all CCG approved. From very basic to lots of pockets. As soon as my Lotus pfd bites the dust (3rd year) I will get one of those, but for my normal paddling I wear a Mustang inflatable. I still try to figure out the best way to attach a pocket to that thing. Right now I wear a small backpack. Cheers Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 05:34:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03173 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03168 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18182 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29902; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010801082059.01f6c8f0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:29:25 -0400 To: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] What Is A Surf Ski Type Workout Boat? In-Reply-To: <20010801054348.37313.qmail_at_web11208.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:43 PM 7/31/01 -0700, Tom wrote: >What are the characteristics of the following boat? What >is it particularly good for, ...not good for? I have >become aware of one for sale, but I have not seen it. > >Ocean Kayak Sprinter - 17' by 22", surf-ski-type workout >boat, yellow polyethylene, designed by Greg Barton and >TimNemier, with rudder and hatches. --TB > I rented one when I was in Hawaii awhile back. "Surf-ski-type" is a good description. It "looks" like a surf-ski but at 17'x22" it's shorter and wider than a typical ski. It would be a good workout boat though and likely a good entry level boat into the surf-ski world. I didn't find it very tippy at all, a characteristic common to more aggressive designs. It wasn't exceptionally fast either. I didn't actually get it in any surf so I don't know how it would handle in rough conditions. Unfortunately, the outfitter could only find one thigh strap or I would have tried rolling it but it did seem to brace easily enough. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 06:14:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA15315 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15309 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12567 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00835; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:49:35 -0400 Message-Id: <200108011249.IAA00835_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:10:07 -0400 To: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] What Is A Surf Ski Type Workout Boat? Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <20010801054348.37313.qmail_at_web11208.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:43 PM 7/31/01 -0700, you wrote: >What are the characteristics of the following boat? What >is it particularly good for, ...not good for? I have >become aware of one for sale, but I have not seen it. > >Ocean Kayak Sprinter - 17' by 22", surf-ski-type workout >boat, yellow polyethylene, designed by Greg Barton and >TimNemier, with rudder and hatches. --TB Barton's writeup on the boat is at http://www.epicpaddles.com/boats.htm Which contains a link to the Ocean Kayak writeup: http://www.oceankayak.com/products/products.htm The sprinter is under the "specialty" products. I haven't seen much less paddled the sprinter. I paddle a surf ski and really like it. I live in New England and Surf skiis are few and far between. Mine is used strictly as a warm weather boat, it's such a wet ride that I don't use it in the off season. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 06:28:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18756 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18751 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nile.intac.com (root_at_nile.intac.com [198.6.114.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19457 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust105.tnt1.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.21.167.105]) by nile.intac.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/ktb) with SMTP id JAA00809; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01c11a8d$6fab6920$69a7153f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> To: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B67CA86.13044.1C7B11_at_localhost> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Regarding modifying pfd's Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:25:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Ulli Hoeger" > . If the > pfd isn't approved by the national authorities (I think it should be > approved by some kind of creditable organization) or probably not > anymore after all the modifications you did on it just follow the > rules. According to the Canadian rules , and I think the most in the > US are similar in this aspects, you have to have a approved pfd on > board, you don't have to wear it (crazy, isn't it?). --For the paddler, definitely crazy. But then, paddling isn't uppermost in their thinking. I haven't checked lately, but the requirement was that a pfd had to be available to the user within 30 seconds of something happening. Probably works fairly well on a cabin cruiser.... USCG also doesn't care much about enforcing their rules on navigable freshwater rivers above tidal influence, as we found out with a problem on the Delaware last year. However, their Type III standard is embraced and used by many state agencies. In parts of West Virginia if your PFD label doesn't say that or Type V, then they can and sometimes do take you off the river. I've seen Maryland Rangers on the Potomac fine paddlers for having an inappropriate pfd, and escorting them off the river if they had none. Given the relative lack of knowledge among enforcement personnel along some of these rivers, having that Type III label is likely all that you might need to remain 'legal' in the US. Both NJ and PA require Wearing of a pfd by children 12 and under. PA requires it only during the colder months. Neither requires they be worn by adults. Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 08:23:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25043 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25038 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:23:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id 5.2d.f4213ca (3965); Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d.f4213ca.289978cc_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:22:52 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A good time to stay home To: david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-01 02:04:17 EDT, david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au writes: << We have been have some very freaky weather here causing wave sizes of huge proportions. A pressure system near Sydney as resulted in 10-15Metres (35-50 feet)!! waves hitting the coast. One of the wave measuring buoys was recording readings between 9-11 Metres. >> Funny you should mention this.....yesterday's news said a huge wave was heading toward Florida and that we should expect lotsa rain. We certainly are having a pretty heavy rainstorm right now. Quite hairy driving on the expressway. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 08:27:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25425 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25420 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (arctic.tamug.tamu.edu [165.95.51.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05139 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiestn ([165.95.181.95]) by arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f71FQsR24593 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:26:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Searching for images Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:28:11 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBJIIICLEJOLIFHKKHAELHCNAA.wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One of my library buddies just passed on a very useful tip on searching for images on the Web - use Google's search engine at: http://images.google.com/ Of course I had to try it out for kayak photos and it did quite well for my favorite Eddyline Falcon - maybe you'll like it too for your favorite kind of boat or boating images. Natalie Wiest Galveston TX [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 08:41:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01053 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01046 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (irv1-mail2.intelenet.net [207.38.45.139]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15071 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.intelenet.net (jackie_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com [207.38.118.58]) by irv1-mail2.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21110 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03482 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28506 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11644 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04862 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B6822F0.EDD1BA5_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:40:32 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Book Review: Sea Kayak Rescue (long) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Book Review: _Sea Kayak Rescue: The definitive guide to modern reentry and recovery techniques_, by Roger Schumann and Jan Shriner, 2001 I should begin this review with a bit of a disclaimer. I know Roger and have recommended him as an outfitter and instructor on this list in the past. More to the point, Roger once rescued me in the mouth of Tomales Bay (near, as I learned later, the great white shark rookery) after I got slammed by a boomer, so I come to any discussion of his rescue skills with some preconceptions. Anyway, I was very impressed by this book, for several reasons. One is its completeness (well, almost; more about that later). This book talks about more kinds of rescues than I have ever seen collected in one place. More importantly, every rescue mentioned is dissected to a high level of detail, including step-by-step instructions for each, and occasional comments based on the authors' experience with that particular rescue. Rescue. Let me say a word about that word. Schumann and Shriner begin the book by suggesting that it might be better, especially with less experienced students, to avoid the word "rescue" altogether. Many of us have seen paddlers who consider a class successful if they stayed upright, not whether they learned anything. Above all else, do not swim! This is partly because they are afraid of being in the water, or of being cold, but perhaps also because they want to avoid being "rescued," and all the emotional and personal baggage that entails. Better, perhaps, RS suggest, to talk about "reentries" instead, a much less loaded word (They also suggest "recovery," but anyone with a wilderness first aid background will prefer to avoid that one). I was pleased to see that the organization of the book follows my own plan in teaching rescues (Yes, "rescues." Schumann and Shriner give up on the "reentries" idea early on, in a bow to common usage). That is, to begin by teaching braces so that a re-whatever will not be necessary, then to move on to wet exits, basic solo and assisted reentries (OK, I'm going to use both terms), and more complex moves like reenter and roll, Eskimo rescues and rolls, and special circumstances and tricks like sling assists, rescuing loaded sea kayaks, and double re-entries. I think this learning sequence is essential. Practicing bracing moves easily into practicing snapping up off a partner's bow, because the two movements are dynamically identical. This prepares students well for the Eskimo rescue. I know that students have trouble learning Eskimo rescues directly if they haven't learned to hip snap yet. The last two chapters deal with towing in a good amount of detail, and a Consumers' Digest review of three commercial products for rescue: the Back-Up, the Sea Seat, and, yes sp...spo... don't make me say it...all right, sponsons. Hmm, my WordPerfect spell checker just flagged "sponson" as a misspelled word. They were fair towards, but not enthusiastic about any of these products. There are also a couple of chapters about preparation and prevention and basic safety gear. These say basically the same things that we all know about PFDs and signaling devices (no, they don't identify the ultimate handheld VHF) and float plans, but are useful reading nonetheless, especially if you keep asking yourself "Do I always do that?" The book is profusely illustrated with black and white photos, usually at least one per page. These are occasionally a bit foggy, but as Schumann and Shriner do most of their paddling in Northern California, it may just been that the light really did look like that. As an added bonus, there are several stories interspersed among the procedures, with compelling titles like "Reentry at Punta Diablo" and "Counting in Dog Years Tale of a Rock Garden Bow Rescue." The stories generally avoid the "No shit, there I was..." tenor of most paddling tales, while still maintaining a high level of realism and providing a lesson for the wise to heed. A few particular techniques merit comment. Schumann and Shriner mention the deck rigged paddlefloat reentry as a useful ploy, but are not wholeheartedly enthusiastic about it unless you always paddle your own kayak (with the same paddle) and never flip in borrowed boats. They are also a bit disparaging about such Brit standbys as the All In rescue and the HI (aka, Ipswich) rescue, although they do refrain from Roger's earlier claim that "Ipswich" is an Olde English term meaning "a good way to break a paddle, dude." A couple of ideas caught my fancy and I tried them out at a rescue clinic I ran last weekend for a couple of local clubs. For example, incorporating a sling into a paddlefloat rescue adds a few seconds to the setup time and shaves much more than that from the reentry time, while adding a ton of stability. Some students who were struggling to keep the paddle in position hopped right back in the boat when we added the sling. As soon as I get the pictures developed, I'll post shots of me reentering from a standing position. I'll see if I can duplicate that move in some waves. Another of Roger's tricks that most of us use is the rough water simulator for bracing and reentry practice, which consists of someone yanking the kayak back and forth and up and down, grinning maniacally while the victim tries to stay upright or get out of the water. The RWS is a big improvement over the standard "edge 'til you start to fall" bracing drills. I've hurt myself being the RWS, though, so I've started using a pair of ropes tied to the bungees and crossing under the kayak. It requires two people to be the RWS, but you can get a boat really on edge with a brisk pull on the rope. Keep the ropes short, though, so you can be close by to offer a hand up if needed. Wayne Hodorowitz has a variant on this rope trick that simulates a broached surf; he's written about it in Sea Kayaker. I wouldn't feel like I was giving good value in a review unless I had a few quibbles, so let me get into those now. I was interested to find that one of the rescues that I use and teach that didn't make it into the book. This is the parallel eskimo rescue, in which the rescuer approaches the upside down boat parallel (what else?) and lays the paddle across her lap and the upturned hull. The victim reaches up, grabs the paddle between the boats, and snaps up. I taught this one to my wife so we could demo it, and she really likes it, as the rescuer is very stable. It may be necessary to place the victim's hands correctly on the paddle. Put their thumbs together, Meg informs me, which is a trick I hadn't come up with. A second departure for me is in the starting position of the paddlefloat rescue. I really don't like to start aft of the paddle, which necessitates a usually graceless pirouette over the shaft (Schumann and Shriner call this the sea star move, which sounds exotic, but I've never found sea stars to be very graceful), when you could start on the bow side, and in your first move stick your leg into the cockpit. Schumann and Shriner say that this only works for shorter paddlers, but I've got a 33" inseam and size 12 feet, and it works fine for me. Of course, Roger is an ACA ITE and Jan is an IT, so perhaps I'm risking my certification by saying, considering how rigid and dogmatic the ACA is. (Note to the humor-impaired: I'm joking). I can't quibble much, though. This book is a solid resource, pulling together most of what there is to be known about sea kayak safety and rescues, and doing it in a readable, occasionally even witty, style. It's definitely worth the $14.95. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 08:47:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01665 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01660 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf07bis.bellsouth.net (mail307.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.167]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18305 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.113.6]) by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010801154806.BEBD29931.imf07bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:48:06 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A good time to stay home Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:46:34 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002d01c11aa1$24f81720$1f783dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <2d.f4213ca.289978cc_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net That's a Tropical Wave weather system not a tsunami. I'm not sure those who live outside of the tropics will understand Sandy's e-mail. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 09:34:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17059 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17053 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11204.mail.yahoo.com (web11204.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.186]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21174 for <paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010801163427.37860.qmail_at_web11204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.28.246] by web11204.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:34:27 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] What Is A Surf Ski Type Workout Boat? To: paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks for the lead to the website for the Ocean Kayak Sprinter boat and to the others that also replied to my question. I got the picture now, literally and figuratively. It would seem these surf skis are particularly good at riding ocean swells. I'm more interested in riding shore breaks. I see the same folks make an SOT for breaker surfing which, logically, is much shorter. --Tom from Brooklyn, ...planning a surfing safari to Coney Island > 01 Aug 2001 From: kirk olsen > 7/31/01 you wrote: > >What are the characteristics of the following boat? > >Ocean Kayak Sprinter ... designed by Greg Barton and > >TimNemier --TB > > Barton's writeup on the boat is at > http://www.epicpaddles.com/boats.htm... kirk Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 09:50:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21109 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21066 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink6.onlink.net (onlink6.onlink.net [206.108.253.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29146 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jwinters (nrba2-21.onlink.net [209.105.208.221]) by onlink6.onlink.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f71Go8X119260; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:50:09 -0400 Message-ID: <003d01c11aaa$b89c5460$d299fea9_at_jwinters> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>, "Nick Schade" <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> References: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> <a05010404b78d94bad037_at_[192.168.1.2]> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:54:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Nick wrote: > > During a broach the kayak is turning hard from straight down the wave > to parallel with the wave. If the rudder/skeg is resisting this > tendency to turn there will be pressure on the down-wave side of the > rudder/skeg. If this pressure is below the vertical center of gravity > of the kayak, it will be applying a capsize moment pushing the > paddler towards the down-wave side. Since the role of the rudder/skeg > in following seas is to resist a broach, it will do so by applying > creating a resistance force which also creates a capsize moment. If the water flow did act normal to the rudder's surface this make s some sense but the water flow does not act the same way in a breaking wave as it does in a non-breaking wave. Would not the forces would depend upon where the rudder (and boat) lie on the wave, the type of wave, and the direction of the water flow within the wave? In a breaking wave, for example, doesn't the velocity field act more or less horizontally in the top third of the wave? So, unless the boat started out in the trough or had turned sideways to the wave and then managed to outrun the wave crest the forces on the rudder would not act to capsize the boat. At least it looks that way from the drawings of wave velocity fields that I have seen. Even for an overtaking wave would not the breaking crest overtake the boat and then, if the rudder was oriented at an angle to the wave, would it not contribute the the broach rather than the capsize? > I don't know if the contributed capsize moment is enough to worry > about in most conditions, but I accept that it is a inevitable > consequence of a rudder/skeg in broaching conditions. One reason it > might not be a problem is that the rudder/skeg will presumably reduce > the likelihood of a broach, and thus the increased capsizing moment > might be a worthwhile tradeoff for the reduced tendency to broach. I have difficulty with this "capsize" concept given the location of the rudder relative to the wave. Hopefully some one has some film of a kayak broaching that will illuminate this. The pictures of sailboats broaching that I have seen quite clearly show the stern lifted by the wave and carried along with the breaking crest until the entire boat becomes engulfed by the wave and rolled over by the force of the wave crest. Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 10:05:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26310 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26303 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11362 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id n.9d.1913e8d7 (30961); Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d.1913e8d7.289990b6_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:04:54 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A good time to stay home To: bob_at_sinkthestink.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-01 11:47:14 EDT, gulfstream_at_flinet.com writes: << That's a Tropical Wave weather system not a tsunami. I'm not sure those who live outside of the tropics will understand Sandy's e-mail.>> Well, Bob, I don't understand your message...so that makes us even! I said, "yesterday's news said a huge wave was heading toward Florida and that we should expect lotsa rain. We certainly are having a pretty heavy rainstorm right now. >> OH, I think I get it....you mean they didn't mean a big wave? sheesh....:( *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 10:17:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29830 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29824 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from internet.ntrs.com (gate.ntrs.com [192.77.161.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA18334 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gate.ntrs.com id AA16806 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net); Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:17:18 -0500 Received: by gate.ntrs.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:17:18 -0500 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NORTHERN TRUST From: "Evan Dallas" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <86256A9B.005EF5AB.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:17:10 -0700 Subject: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Just a quick question that I hope hasn't been previously hashed to death: I've got a 12 year-old Eddyline kayak with foam rubber bulkheads that are starting to separate from the bottom of my kayak (probably from my cramming stuff in way too tight...). Does anyone have a recommendation for the best sealer to use to repair this? Evan Woodinville, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 13:49:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05533 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05528 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07615 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.83.dcc01f3 (2618) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <83.dcc01f3.2899c4ef_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:47:43 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, I can't get scientific here, like Matt, Nick and John have been, but I do have some personal experience with being broached with the rudder deployed, and I have never been capsized in this situation, even in some pretty big breaking waves. I have also never felt the rudder dig in and try to capsize me when I broached. When I think about it, it seems like it would dig in and capsize me, but that hasn't been the case. On the other hand, maybe I've been subconsciously counteracting the capsizing effect, which would be just fine, because it's been working. Down here in Southern California, I know a few people who own tandem wave skis, and they surf with a rudder deployed and do just fine when broached. I've always surfed my sea kayak with the rudder up, but that is so I can spin the kayak around faster when setting up to catch a wave. On a few occasions, I've came in through the surf after touring and forgot to put the rudder up, and when I was broached, I didn't notice any problems. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 16:51:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04841 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04710 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vision.net.au (root_at_mail.ltn.eftel.com [203.17.23.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08841 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (nas3-32.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.127]) by vision.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id JAA03237 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:50:49 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ltn.eftel.com: Host nas3-32.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.127] claimed to be oemcomputer Message-ID: <001301c11ae6$0a8875c0$7f78a8ca_at_oemcomputer> From: "Wilky" <carrot_at_vision.net.au> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEGEBMCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:59:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Does any body have any information of a kayak builder in NZ called Adventure Kayaks, they built a boat called an Estuary Boat???? Cheers Wilky >From Tasmania *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 16:59:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06052 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06047 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13942 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip116.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.116]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f71NwXi16748; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B689759.4AC3635F_at_pacifier.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:57:13 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads References: <86256A9B.005EF5AB.00_at_chi-g01.ntrs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Evan Dallas wrote: > > [snip] foam rubber bulkheads [] are starting to > separate from the bottom of my kayak (probably from my cramming stuff in way too > tight...). Does anyone have a recommendation for the best sealer to use to > repair this? 3M 5200 (marine supply store) works well for this. Clean the surfaces thoroughly and abrade with 80 grit or you'll be doin' it again. Make a small fillet where the bulkhead joins the hull/deck. Bet 3M 3532 also will do the job, but does not remain as flexible as the 5200. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 20:11:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07639 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07605 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (callisto.net.voyager.co.nz [203.21.30.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16857 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup (ip70.net.voyager.co.nz [203.110.16.70]) by callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA06885 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:11:04 +1200 (NZST) From: "Allan and Joyce Singleton" <alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:10:00 +1200 Message-ID: <NEBBKFEMBLGOMPJPJOCFCEHNCIAA.alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <001301c11ae6$0a8875c0$7f78a8ca_at_oemcomputer> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > > > Does any body have any information of a kayak builder in NZ > called Adventure > Kayaks, they built a boat called an Estuary Boat???? Don't know about the Estuary Boat, but have a look at www.kayakdirectnz.co.nz , the web site of Adventure Kayak Direct. Allan Singleton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 23:17:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06240 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06234 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.intelenet.net (root_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09882 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.intelenet.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA04104 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13376 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:29 -0700 (PDT) From: HenryHast_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20375 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HenryHast_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.3e.f437aec (3958) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:35:02 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] (no subject) To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10528 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I've paddled both but only in calm conditions I liked both of them then. The > Aquila was more maneuverable and I thought it would be best for a bigger > guy. The millennium was one of only 4 kayaks I liked out of 25 kayaks I > tested at the 1999 West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium. > > > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com > > Matt, could you say what the other kayaks you liked were and why. thanks in advance Hank Berger *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 1 23:57:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19309 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19301 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp7.xs4all.nl (smtp7.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.133]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04228 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [194.109.171.221] (s340-modem2444.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.169.140]) by smtp7.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22964 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:57:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <v01550100b78eb4c050b3_at_[194.109.171.221]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:57:39 +0100 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: dbarends_at_xs4all.nl (Dirk Barends) Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rudder Drag Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net when someone does feel the drag of a rudder (or skeg) maybe the reason is that the design/construction of that device is bad, or the boat or paddler really needs it because their forward stroke causes a lot of yaw? Dirk Barends *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 01:02:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA10911 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10906 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13640 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-5-23.oz.net [216.39.135.23]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13703 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:01:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 01:09:53 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEEECDCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:37:26 -0400 From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching >>>>>>>>Matt and Kevin have suggested that the rudder can contribute to the capsizing moment during a broach. I have not had this experience so I wonder what tests they used to determine this and how did they determine how much capsize moment was caused by the rudder and how much contributed by other factors. Matt also mentioned the boat sliding down the face of a wave. Can you expand on that, Matt, by describing the type of wave you had in mind and at what point on the wave that this might occur as well as the angle of the boat relative .<<<<<<<<<< Start surfing on a steep wave (2 to 3 foot high whitecapping waves should work well). The stern likely will hang out over the back of the wave completely removing the rudder from the water while the bow plows into the wave trough in front of you. It takes a lot of skill at this point to keep from broaching most kayaks. Once the broach starts it often quickly develops into a sideways skid down the face of the wave. At around 45 degrees angle from the direction you were previously going (as you started to surf) the rudder again contacts the wave crest and suddenly the kayak wants to tumble down the wave face and it usually requires some additional anticipatory lean to the kayak before this happens to counteract the forces on the rudder (or stern mounted skeg) to prevent a capsize down the wave (or it takes turning the rudder in the opposite way from what you would like to be doing to correct the broach--so that the fin slices into rather than catches on the flat of the rudder fin--as the rudder enters the water again). So I figure the capsize moment caused by the hull sliding over the water was what was happening just before the rudder came back into the water and the sudden large additional capsizing moment came from the rudder or stern mounted skeg once it caught the water again. >>>>>>Matt also mentioned that when a boat was heeled enough for the capsizing moment to become insignificant the boat would already be well on its way to capsize. How does that fit with the various force field diagrams of breaking waves that one sees in wave research?<<<<<<< I think you are trying to set the kayak into the wave diagram and see where the arrows are pointing to affect the different parts of the hull. The orbital motion of a molecule of water in a (non-breaking) wave as the wave passes is usually what is diagramed. The molecule of water moves back and down as a trough passes and moves up and forward as the crest passes and then ends up pretty much where it started. If you carefully set a kayak into this system facing down wave you could use the arrows to see what the wave will do to the kayak. It will soon turn the kayak (or any long object) sideways to the direction of the waves travel. Once any orientation other than straight down wave is induced to the kayak the stern will be being pushed forward and the bow pushed back by the action of the orbital motion of the water as the waves pass the kayak. I think this is what John wants us to see here. In this system the rudder would be being pushed forward on the opposite side (to the side that would make the kayak tumble down the wave face). Most novice paddlers intuitively learn this (which is why they try to slow down to get into this regime rather than get surfed off ahead of the wave and into a much more tricky regime that results at high speed). Those of us speed junkies who want to get surfed off and ride on the face of the wave are in a whole new regime where the kayak is sliding at the speed of the wave crest (and not at the speed of the molecules of water in the wave crest). Yes, the tripping force would be even worse if the rudder reentered the water in the trough rather than at the crest because of the water motion as a wave passes, but the forces due to the speed of the kayak sliding over the water will create quite a large tumbling force on any kayak (even round smooth ones with no fins sticking out at all). If then you add a fin to the kayak that contacts the water while you are sliding over it somewhat sideways the result is known as window-shading (like when the roll up blind is accidentally released as it is being raised. Flop, flop, flop, flop, flop, you get the picture. This force is so large that if the kayak is leaned down wave some already (where there would be less pressure on the fin as some of the water slid off under it) there is no way you are going to overcome the tumbling moment to get it on an even keel again (even if the rudder or fin was to be instantly withdrawn from the system). Any whitewater kayaker knows you have to tilt the kayak "downstream" as you cross an eddyline to compensate for the water moving sideways under you wanting to sweep the kayak away out from under you as you enter the water across the eddyline. The dynamic where the boat meets the water is the same whether the boat is skidding sideways over standing water or the moving water is skidding under the boat. I thought I had covered this when I answered John's earlier statement: John wrote: <snip>>>>>>>>>Since most of the broaching force derives from the deeply immersed bow in the opposing flow in the back of the wave in front one has to wonder if the rudder plays a significant role.<<<<<<<snip> I wrote: >>A hull does not need to have it's bow in the preceding wave in order to broach, but it certainly does increase the turning forces greatly if it is. The speed of the kayak plays an important roll here too, I think much more so than the action of the water flow in the waves.<<snip> I hope the above explanation has made this more clear. If the wave being surfed becomes a breaker the stern is pitched forward (either over the top or, more likely, to the side) and it likely "lands" sideways in the standing water in front of the breaker. Any fin hanging off the back of the kayak (or even sticking out the bottom in this case) will get its strength sorely tested then. Maybe that's why they call them "breakers". I've seen even small (3 to 4 foot) breakers turn an 1/8" thick 6061 T6 aluminum rudder blade permanently into the shape of a C when the paddler tried to use the rudder to prevent broaching while he surfed these small breakers. Note: The paddler had announced he was going to use the rudder (against our advice) so we were watching it closely during this "test". It was clear to us watching that the rudder was being bent in a tight arc in the green water on the wave face and that is when the bend happened. (It was not due to the breaker breaking or any impact with the sandy bottom because the kayaker had pulled out of the wave before that happened). Melissa, this was on the spit just inside the north jetty of Grays Harbor near Ocean Shores. You probably know the area well. When the breakers were too big outside on the coast north of the jetty, the bar would filter out the big ones and let good surfing sized waves pass over it to later steepen and break on this inside spit. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 02:23:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA05312 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05307 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp014.mail.yahoo.com (smtp014.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.58]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA06563 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgate-175.mauigateway.com (HELO computer) (205.166.249.175) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 09:23:17 -0000 X-Apparently-From: <kayak?argentina_at_yahoo.com> From: "Kayak Argentina" <kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] In regards to paddling Maui.... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:24:54 -1000 Message-ID: <MBBBJOFBHJJCBJIOPCDHOEFDCBAA.kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <003001c11540$55070c20$43d90618_at_vncvr1.wa.home.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net -----Original Message----- In regards to paddling Maui.... About ten years ago I rented a plastic kayak from someone trying to start such a business on Maui...we paddled to Molikini (sp?) and snorkeled about 30 min then paddled back...was a very nice day. My biggest problem was that the spray skirt didn't fit the boat well, and on the trip back we were almost perpendicular to the large swells that developed...waves breaking onto my boat and popping the spray skirt. I pumped it out two or three times and reapplied the skirt, and it just kept popping of, and the boat refilled with the first wave that crashed on me. Had to paddle the whole way back in wind waves crashing onto my boat and the boat full of water...but in the end it went safely. And the work to do so was pretty tiresome. But still...it was a very fun paddle, and with the right equipment and companions, I would do it again in a flash. Have fun paddling in Maui... Michael Orchard --------------------------------------- Hy Michael .... Yes, its probably Molokini, a small crater that forms an isalnd close to Maui, and one of the besto snorkeling and diving spots of the world the experts say. The idea of crossing there with a kayak assaulted my mind the firs time I've seen it, but I never thought it could be done go and back in the day, and not because of the distance, but the wind is always strong after midday, and there is a very strong current in the channel between the islands you also have to deal with. Thanks for the info, and who knows... some day may find us paddling there together .... Have fun ! Kayak Argentina - Sea Kayaking Mailing List Fernando Lopez Arbarello kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com <mailto:kayak_argentina_at_yahoo.com> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 05:00:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA21789 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 04:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21784 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 04:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12229 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 04:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 1369C9B87; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(205.139.23.92), claiming to be "firewall1" via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdU69151; Thu Aug 2 07:58:32 2001 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <NWN6Q1PF>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:57:19 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9F1_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Dave Kruger'" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:57:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Make a small > fillet where the bulkhead joins the hull/deck. > What does "make a small fillet" mean? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 06:36:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA21669 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21664 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.129]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14529 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([65.2.168.174]) by femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010802133557.GHLH7861.femail20.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_[192.168.1.2]>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: guille_at_mail148.pair.com Message-Id: <a05010405b78f015f8444_at_[192.168.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <003d01c11aaa$b89c5460$d299fea9_at_jwinters> References: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> <a05010404b78d94bad037_at_[192.168.1.2]> <003d01c11aaa$b89c5460$d299fea9_at_jwinters> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:35:54 -0400 To: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 12:54 PM -0400 8/1/01, John Winters wrote: >Nick wrote: > >> >> During a broach the kayak is turning hard from straight down the wave >> to parallel with the wave. If the rudder/skeg is resisting this >> tendency to turn there will be pressure on the down-wave side of the >> rudder/skeg. If this pressure is below the vertical center of gravity >> of the kayak, it will be applying a capsize moment pushing the >> paddler towards the down-wave side. Since the role of the rudder/skeg >> in following seas is to resist a broach, it will do so by applying >> creating a resistance force which also creates a capsize moment. > >If the water flow did act normal to the rudder's surface this make s some >sense but the water flow does not act the same way in a breaking wave as it >does in a non-breaking wave. Would not the forces would depend upon where >the rudder (and boat) lie on the wave, the type of wave, and the direction >of the water flow within the wave? > I am assuming the rudder is being used to attempt to counteract the tendency to broach. This requires a force on the down-wave side of the rudder. Once the rudder is ineffective at resisting the broach it will no longer contribute any capsize moment because it no longer has force on the down-wave side. Why it is ineffective probably has several explanations. The most obvious is it is lifted clear of the water. I can also see that it might by sitting in the froth moving forward with the top of a breaking wave. At this point the rudder would be contributing to the broach not resisting it. You could say there is capsize force generated into the wave, but this is the "good" way. As long as the force on the rudder is pushing the stern "up" the wave it is creating a capsize moment "down" the wave. I don't seriously think this moment is all that significant, but I think it is there. >I have difficulty with this "capsize" concept given the location of the >rudder relative to the wave. Hopefully some one has some film of a kayak >broaching that will illuminate this. The pictures of sailboats broaching >that I have seen quite clearly show the stern lifted by the wave and carried >along with the breaking crest until the entire boat becomes engulfed by the >wave and rolled over by the force of the wave crest. Sailboats generally have a large keel sticking down into the wave and the relative importance of the rudder is probably reduced. In a kayak the rudder or skeg may reach deeper into the wave than anything else and have relatively more significance. When a kayak broaches it tends to get pushed fully parallel to the wave. The trickiest part is when the paddler must switch from bracing on the low side of the boat to the high side. This is where the paddler gives up on trying to resist the broach and just attempts to stay upright through it. If the paddler successfully makes the transition, the boat quickly turns parallel to the wave and the full length of the boat sees pretty much the same water conditions. If the wave is breaking it may force the boat to side surf. I think at this point the rudder may extend down into cleaner water than the rest of the boat and the capsizing moment may be more pronounced. -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 06:46:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24720 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24715 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20838 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([65.2.168.174]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010802134602.IPBN8659.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_[192.168.1.2]>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:46:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: guille_at_mail148.pair.com Message-Id: <a05010406b78f08702da2_at_[192.168.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <83.dcc01f3.2899c4ef_at_aol.com> References: <83.dcc01f3.2899c4ef_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:46:00 -0400 To: Strosaker_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 4:47 PM -0400 8/1/01, Strosaker_at_aol.com wrote: >Paddlewisers, > >I can't get scientific here, like Matt, Nick and John have been, but I do >have some personal experience with being broached with the rudder deployed, >and I have never been capsized in this situation, even in some pretty big >breaking waves. I have also never felt the rudder dig in and try to capsize >me when I broached. When I think about it, it seems like it would dig in and >capsize me, but that hasn't been the case. On the other hand, maybe I've >been subconsciously counteracting the capsizing effect, which would be just >fine, because it's been working. I believe you. There are so many forces trying to flip you over in surf that I suspect that any addition from the rudder is easy to compensate for. If you can successfully play in surf the capsizing contribution of the rudder is probably lost in the noise. It might make it harder for novices, but then again the potential control from the rudder may also make it easier in the long run. Surf boards use skegs for good reason. Nick -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 07:12:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03645 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03639 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07121 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip199.ast6.pacifier.com [66.43.10.199]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f72EC2i27725; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B695F62.AD30A948_at_pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 07:10:42 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9F1_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick Sylvia wrote: > > Make a small fillet where the bulkhead joins the hull/deck. > What does "make a small fillet" mean? A fillet is a bit of extra sealer formed into a smooth, concave cross-section that blends the surfaces joined. Easy to do. Just run the end of a tongue-depresser along the seam, re-distributing the flow-out from the joint to form the concave fillet. Probably the old sealer was formed this way. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 07:18:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04151 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04144 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09793 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72EILp02520 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:21 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04435 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24097 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4.america.net (atl4.america.net [199.170.121.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17122 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max2-34.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.90]) by atl4.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15651; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B687A43.8050204_at_gsinet.net> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:53:07 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MSKC <MSKC_at_egroups.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip report, Graftom Pond Sunday July 22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We arrived at 9:50 at the boat ramp for Grafton Pond. Twenty-five minutes later I was in the water. I could have started sooner but I wanted to do some socializing first. Fifteen of us met to go kayaking and some of the people there I meet only once or twice per year when we both paddle at the same event. Two or three people there I had not yet met. It is always nice to make new friends, especially if the new friends and I share a common sport. In a cove next to the launch ramp a guide was giving lessons to his class for the morning. He took his charges on a tour of the pond a few minutes ahead of us. We would unintentionally shadow him for the next hour as both groups followed the same route around the pond. Although it is dam controlled Grafton Pond has the feel of a natural pond. Everything around the shoreline and in the shallow coves is well established. A couple of the shallow coves do have stumps in them but there are no standing dead trees that are so typical of manmade ponds. In keeping with its glacially scoured and timeworn heritage Grafton Pond has a convoluted shoreline. You can paddle as little as a quarter of a mile from the boat ramp and leave all trace of civilization behind. There are many small coves and islands to explore and no two of them have quite the same character. The pond is surrounded by wooded hills with no homes. Grafton Pond is in the middle of a conservation area so there are only two or three near the shore, and they are all near the dam. Looking to the northeast you can see the bald dome of Cardigan Mountain. We started our adventure by heading from the boat ramp and turning south. It was our plan to follow the shoreline counterclockwise. A game quickly developed to see if one person or another could actually paddle between some of the near islands and shore. The passage between the islands and shore was often so shallow that you could walk out to the island and not get your knickers wet. Toss in an occasional rock or stump and navigation becomes dicey at best. Mark ended up winning this one when he went through a passage that nobody else would attempt. Another game quickly developed for the times when there was no near shore island. It was "Kayak Limbo." Any time a low branch or downed tree went out over the water there would be a challenge to pass under it. Linda soon won this competition by passing under a branch that was so low that even after she slid down into her cockpit and leaned back as far as she could she had to take off her hat. The bill of her cap would not have passed under the branch. One of our group mentioned that he was looking for a new paddle to replace the plastic bladed club that he was currently using. A game of musical paddles ensued. At one point I had the club while a second person had my paddle, a third person had the second person's paddle, and the club owner had the third person's paddle! I got to try several paddles that day. I think the club owner tried half of the paddles in the fleet. He never did tell me which paddle he liked best. Soon we arrived at an island about half way around the pond. The island had been "reserved" for us by one of our members putting up a MSKC banner between two trees. This was our lunch stop. Although the weather predictions for the day called for temperatures in the mid nineties none of us had felt particularly hot to that point. On the island it felt that the temperature had dropped into the low seventies. Almost everyone mentioned feeling cold. Only standing in the sun felt warm, but we all managed to warm up before lunch was over. As is the usual the topic of conversation at lunch was all about kayaking. We discussed trips we had taken and trips we intended to take. We talked about techniques we had learned and who taught them to us. And we went into great detail about the boats we had owned and what we liked and disliked about them. These conversations could have gone on for hours but we all wanted to get back on the water. With lunch over we all got back in our boats. After the chilly reception our lunch island had given us we all wanted to warm up a bit before we started off. What better way to warm up but do kayak tricks? Linda and Lindi started us off by turning their two kayaks into a catamaran with a human cross brace. While Lindi sat on the rear decks and held the two boats together Linda stood up with one foot in each cockpit. Then the two of them paddled around a bit to prove that they could. Next Lindi tried to give us a demonstration of how to stand up in a kayak unassisted. This was naturally followed immediately by an assisted rescue demonstration. Several rolling and deep brace demonstrations followed. Some were more successful than others, leading to more assisted rescue demonstrations. After about twenty minutes of play we were ready to start paddling again. Linda, our "guide" and organizer for this trip, is a trustee for Grafton Pond. She takes her job seriously and is out on the pond several times each week. Because of this Linda knows almost all of the hidden places on the pond. She took us through a small gap between an island and shore that opened into a marsh. Another small channel led through to another marsh. It was beginning to look like paddling in Florida with the swamps and some of the plants that were growing there. There was nobody around but us. The stillness was haunting. Except for hearing one person at the back of the pack asking the owner of "the club" to please slow down so she could get her paddle back! We paddled through the second marsh and Linda directed us to a small outlet. It looked like a small stream coming into the marsh. It was less than ten feet across in places as it wound its way through rocks and trees. Just about the time that I thought the stream had to peter out it opened up into a cove! We had just made it through the back passage around a large island. These channels are so small that they do not show up on my topographic maps at all. Learning about secret little like this is one of the great joys of kayaking. As we continued back toward the takeout we met up with a fellow who had come looking for us. It seems that he was a member of the Champlain Kayak Club. We were hosting the Champlain Kayak Club on this trip so he had heard about it. He was hoping to meet a couple CKC members because, even though he had been a member for a couple years, he had never attended any of their events! The CKC members introduced themselves and we talked clubs for a bit. When we got back to the takeout we gave him instructions on how to join MSKC as well. Back at the takeout the group split. Many stayed for more skills practice but I had other obligations for later in the afternoon. So I reluctantly loaded my gear for the trip home. The trip was over but others are already in planning. Within the next month Meri Kutsuu and I are going to the Connecticut River and then we are returning to Squam Lake. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 07:18:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04333 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04327 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10003 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72EIdp02531 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:18:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04445 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13376 Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:29 -0700 (PDT) From: HenryHast_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20375 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HenryHast_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.3e.f437aec (3958) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:35:02 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] (no subject) To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10528 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I've paddled both but only in calm conditions I liked both of them then. The > Aquila was more maneuverable and I thought it would be best for a bigger > guy. The millennium was one of only 4 kayaks I liked out of 25 kayaks I > tested at the 1999 West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium. > > > Matt Broze > http://www.marinerkayaks.com > > Matt, could you say what the other kayaks you liked were and why. thanks in advance Hank Berger *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 08:47:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02443 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02438 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07840 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72FjZp02697 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:45:35 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00335 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108021553.IAA00335_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] mail problems X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi folks, I'm having problems with my mail. We are moving PaddleWise and email to another server. Up until now, I couldn't send email. I still cannot receive email. There may be problems with PaddleWise email but hopefully this will all be straightened out soon. Apologies for any inconvenience. Jackie list-owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 09:12:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10713 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10678 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24153 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f72GAmZ34990 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:10:49 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f72GAh272624 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:10:47 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:10:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re:[Paddlewise] Bulkhead sealer Message-ID: <3B695153.14376.D44760_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I don't know the 3M stuff, but Sikaflex also has a pretty good reputation. It is also sold in Marine supply stores. May be an alternative if one product is not in stock. Whatever you use, it should not cure glass hard and keep a bit of elasticity. Sikaflex will do that, and the recommended #M stuff as well. Cheers Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 09:25:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15001 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14996 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail305.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04937 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.113.6]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010802162553.LMDF9637.imf05bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:25:53 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net>, "'MSKC'" <MSKC_at_egroups.com>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Trip report, Graftom Pond Sunday July 22 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:24:16 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <001101c11b6f$9389b580$06713dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B687A43.8050204_at_gsinet.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net 1. Where was the pond? Florida, Canada? 2. How big was the pond and how far did you paddle? 3. What is the MSKC? cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 09:29:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15439 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15433 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f108.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.108]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05892 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:29:15 -0700 Received: from 63.30.28.154 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:29:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.30.28.154] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: mkayaks_at_oz.net Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:29:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F108IPukg3nOpj53XaD0000ded9_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2001 16:29:15.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[450E59A0:01C11B70] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt....thank you very much for all the data you forwarded re my inquiry. Very helpful. I ended up buying the Vivian. Most who paddled both the Vivian and Aquilla said the Vivian handled better empty than the Aquilla, and although it is a trip boat, I use it alot as an unloaded second kayak when I kayak with friends. Tried the Vivian out on a lake in Austin in calm conditions, and when edged, it turns with very little effort (16 sweep strokes, vrs 11 for my Dagger Meridian). But when I got it out in rough water (22-28 mph winds, 2-4 ft waves in Corpus Christi Bay), it was much less nimble. Maybe that was because I was not edging it as well in for my first paddle in the rough water. Was very pleased however, that no matter what wind/waves it took from whatever direction, it just ploughs through and keeps right on course. Course corrections are very easy, even in rough water. And you are right about the speed. C! locked it at 7.8 and 7.7 mph on the lake, but my normal paddling speed here in Corpus Christi Bay was from 5 to 6 mph, still respectable, but only 1 mph faster than my 16' Dagger Meridian. Vivian is like a stretch limo rolling down the highway with momentum, plowing right through the waves with little effect, while the Meridian is like a playful puppy chasing the waves and nimbly ready for however they push the kayak. Both Kayaks roll beautifully! P.S. Don't know if you will remember me....but I am why you sold so many boats to Skip Langley. He was always trying to get a faster kayak than my Seda Glider at that time. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Matt Broze" To: CC: "Paddlewise" Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Any Viviane/Aquilla paddlers out there? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:39:05 -0700 Oops! You said Viviane/Aquilla and in my rush to answer and get going I somehow wrote about the Millennium rather than the Viviane. notes say: (dim. 4/00SK)(SvimaSport97/98 cat.--19-0.75x20.9x106x33.9x18)(vol. dist. 23.8/50.2/31.7)(16.1x9b,16.5x11.8s)(I think derived from "Avalon")(5/97Skj#58--"Avalon Viviane" 19-0.7x21.6x105.7= 23.8/51.5/30.4x?x33.9x18.1)(01CBG--19-1x22x14) Sea Kayaker magazine got 115.2 gallons for it. SvimaSport catalog said 106, 5/97 Seakajaker wrote 105.7. Since Sea Kayaker measures all the volume inside the outer skins shape it is usually 4 or 5 % higher than one might get trying to fill the kayak with measured amounts of water. I paddled the Viviane for several hours but not in rough water. I had watched it in rougher water with some sea kayaker testers earlier and while it is a very fast kayak (for a very strong paddler pushing hard) there was a lot more drag at normal paddling speeds due to the extra wetted surface inherent in the longer length. It was also kind of slow to turn so I would not recommend it for a high wind situation if not loaded down with gear. I'm 190 pounds and over 6' tall. I liked the Millennium much better but a very big paddler might prefer the Viviane. I could turn an Aquila 180 degrees in 10 seconds using a strong lean, it took me 14 in the Viviane. Held level throughout the same turn the numbers were 19 and 29 seconds respectively. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 09:39:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18550 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18545 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.doutlets.com (asd123_at_cj387146-a.alex1.va.home.com [24.252.2.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12697 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from muphrid (asd123_at_localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.doutlets.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with SMTP id f72GcFF19832; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:39:03 -0400 From: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> To: "'John Winters'" <jwinters_at_onlink.net>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:39:13 -0700 Message-ID: <001401c11b71$aa9f3720$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Winters wrote: "Matt and Kevin have suggested that the rudder can contribute to the capsizing moment during a broach. I have not had this experience so I wonder what tests they used to determine this and how did they determine how much capsize moment was caused by the rudder and how much contributed by other factors." Well John, I can happily state that my paper on this subject was officially accepted by the prestigious Journal of Irreproducible Results yesterday, so I can now talk about my research without worrying about having someone rip it off. :) Also, the first version was rejected by the reviewers. They said it was a beautiful piece of research, and very enlightening, but it lacked relevance to any real world concerns and would fail to stimulate the audience. Thus I had to come up with one more extremely scientific conclusion (#4). To be brief, here are the major results of my detailed scientific study: 1. The sideways resistance of a deployed rudder or skeg does cause a measurable capsizing moment during a sideways broach. 2. This capsizing moment is rather small when compared to the capsizing moment of the integrated length of the hull. The rudder or skeg contributes on the order of 10% more capsizing resistance. Therefore, skeg or not, the paddler must edge properly to prevent a capsize. Good edging technique is all the really matters to prevent a broach. 3. If the paddler has marginal edging skill, then the rudder or skeg will significantly increase the capsize potential beyond what the force numbers predict, because the capsizing impulse from the rudder/skeg will occur at the most inopportune time. This occurs when the skeg/rudder re-enters the water after being lifted into the air by even moderately steep waves. Once the capsize is initiated, the paddler with weak edging skill will not be able to counteract it. 4. Paddlers who use boats with rudders or skegs are heretics that will burn in hell for all eternity. Kevin Whilden *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 10:15:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00502 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00497 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08885 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72HETp03027 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:14:29 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00543 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24791 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19819 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip56.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.56]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f72FK7i11406; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B696F57.B29370CF_at_pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:18:47 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Book Review: Sea Kayak Rescue (long) References: <3B6822F0.EDD1BA5_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve Cramer wrote: > > Book Review: _Sea Kayak Rescue: The definitive guide to modern reentry > and recovery techniques_, by Roger Schumann and Jan Shriner, 2001 [snip] > A couple of ideas caught my fancy and I tried them out at a rescue > clinic I ran last weekend for a couple of local clubs. For example, > incorporating a sling into a paddlefloat rescue adds a few seconds to > the setup time and shaves much more than that from the reentry time, > while adding a ton of stability. Some students who were struggling to > keep the paddle in position hopped right back in the boat when we added > the sling. As soon as I get the pictures developed, I'll post shots of > me reentering from a standing position. I'll see if I can duplicate that > move in some waves. [snip; see below] > A second departure for me is in the starting position of the paddlefloat > rescue. I really don't like to start aft of the paddle, which > necessitates a usually graceless pirouette over the shaft (Schumann and > Shriner call this the sea star move, which sounds exotic, but I've never > found sea stars to be very graceful), when you could start on the bow > side, and in your first move stick your leg into the cockpit. Schumann > and Shriner say that this only works for shorter paddlers, but I've got > a 33" inseam and size 12 feet, and it works fine for me. [snip] I agree the comment about shorter paddlers is misplaced. However, I prefer the method Schumann and Shriner advocate, mainly because it allows folks who do not have good upper body strength to get on the deck more easily. Mounting aft of the outrigger depresses the stern. Consequently, the mantleshelf move to get on deck astern is not as severe as the move when mounting forward of the outrigger. I have good upper body strength, so either positon works OK for me, but some of my paddling friends have great trouble getting their upper bodies on deck if they mount forward of the outrigger. > I can't quibble much, though. This book is a solid resource, pulling > together most of what there is to be known about sea kayak safety and > rescues, and doing it in a readable, occasionally even witty, style. > It's definitely worth the $14.95. Good, thoughtful review, Steve. Where will your pictures of use of the sling be posted? I have played with use of a sling, mainly hung around the base of the cockpit coaming, and have not found a good technique yet. Thanks. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 10:15:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00596 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00588 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09060 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72HFep03051 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:15:40 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00564 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26224 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24012 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-243-39.s293.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.243.39] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15SKKy-0002uN-00 ; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:24:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3B696F0C.DB4F4EE9_at_erols.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:17:32 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: HenryHast_at_aol.com CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] (no subject) References: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Much as I would be interested in this, I think it puts Matt in a very precarious position being a designer and retailer. HenryHast_at_aol.com wrote: > > > I've paddled both but only in calm conditions I liked both of them then. The > > Aquila was more maneuverable and I thought it would be best for a bigger > > guy. The millennium was one of only 4 kayaks I liked out of 25 kayaks I > > tested at the 1999 West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium. > > > > > > Matt Broze > > http://www.marinerkayaks.com > > > > > > Matt, > could you say what the other kayaks you liked were and why. thanks in advance > Hank Berger > > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 10:44:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10007 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10002 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28944 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72HiPp03131 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:44:25 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00643 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11275 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail (mail.prolist.com [64.241.22.170]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24655 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP agent by mail gateway Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:11:19 -0500 Received: from APETUKOV (10.1.22.181) by mail with MERCUR-SMTP/POP3/IMAP4-Server (v3.30.03 HS-0040000) for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:11:10 -0400 From: "Andrew Petukov" <apetukov_at_prolist.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:11:10 -0400 Message-ID: <KAELLODBJHHMOPKPMFFMMEMEJGAA.apetukov_at_prolist.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3B689759.4AC3635F_at_pacifier.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Don't get that stuff on your hands. -Andrew Dave Kruger wrote: > 3M 5200 (marine supply store) works well for this. Clean the surfaces > thoroughly and abrade with 80 grit or you'll be doin' it again. Make a small > fillet where the bulkhead joins the hull/deck. > Bet 3M 3532 also will do the job, but does not remain as flexible as the 5200. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 11:14:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19681 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19676 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19435 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id LAA12899; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010802140320.0181eef8_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:13:53 -0400 To: "Kevin Whilden" <kevin_at_yourplanetearth.org> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Broaching Cc: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <001401c11b71$aa9f3720$7500000a_at_climateservices.com> References: <000a01c11a11$625b4780$14d769d1_at_bx6q00b> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > >4. Paddlers who use boats with rudders or skegs are heretics that will burn >in hell for all eternity. > Kevin Whilden Please clarify. If a paddler has both a touring kayak, with rudder, and a surfing kayak without a rudder, is this paddler destined for heaven, hell, limbo, or simply the eternal likelihood of buying ever more boats? -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 11:50:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00269 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00192 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink6.onlink.net (onlink6.onlink.net [206.108.253.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12012 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jwinters (nrba2-63.onlink.net [209.105.209.7]) by onlink6.onlink.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f72IoIX59118 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:50:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c11b84$ac4c5040$d299fea9_at_jwinters> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:05:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt wrote; >Start surfing on a steep wave (2 to 3 foot high whitecapping waves should >work well). The stern likely will hang out over the back of the wave >completely removing the rudder from the water while the bow plows into the >wave trough in front of you. It takes a lot of skill at this point to keep >from broaching most kayaks. Once the broach starts it often quickly develops >into a sideways skid down the face of the wave. I tend to disagree with the sideways skid. Doesn't the boat actually rotate while the stern gets swept along with the breaking crest? I can see, however that a sideways skid can occur in breaking surf. Perhaps we should confine the discussion to surf or open water waves so we don't confuse anyone (or ourselves). For my part, I have dealt with open water waves and perhaps that has caused some problems for the surfing types. >At around 45 degrees angle >from the direction you were previously going (as you started to surf) the >rudder again contacts the wave crest and suddenly the kayak wants to tumble down the wave face and it usually requires some additional anticipatory lean to the kayak before this happens to counteract the forces on the rudder (or stern mounted skeg) to prevent a capsize down the wave (or it takes turning the rudder in the opposite way from what you would like to be doing to correct the broach--so that the fin slices into rather than catches on the flat of the rudder fin--as the rudder enters the water again). So I figure the capsize moment caused by the hull sliding over the water was what was happening just before the rudder came back into the water and the sudden large additional capsizing moment came from the rudder or stern mounted skeg once it caught the water again. In the crest, does not the water travel in the direction of travel (for the wave)? The major capsizing force (according to Marchaj and others that I have read) comes from the horizontal forces in the crest causing the boat to turn and rotate . Marchaj diagrams this rather well in his book on Seaworthiness. Even if we could assume that the rudder contributed a capsizing force, how would one quantify it given the mixed bag of flow and boat attitude? (SNIP about orbital motion of molecules in a wave) >I think this is what John wants us >to see here. Failed to make myself clear (nothing new there). Actually I believe I referred to the translational motion of water in the breaking crest not the orbital flow in a non- breaking wave. Wish I had my web site up. I had a drawing I cribbed from Cokelet that shows how the rotational flow breaks down into translational flow and causes a capsize. (SNIP) Any whitewater kayaker knows you have to tilt the kayak "downstream" as you cross an eddyline to compensate for the water moving sideways under you wanting to sweep the kayak away out from under you as you enter the water across the eddyline. The dynamic where the boat meets the water is the same whether the boat is skidding sideways over standing water or the moving water is skidding under the boat. I think this is where we disagree. I do not believe the boat skids down the face of the wave to the degree Matt suggests (speaking of open water not surf conditions) and have seen nothing but anecdotal evidence. Can some one point me to a source that shows otherwise? >>A hull does not need to have it's bow in the preceding wave in order to broach, but it certainly does increase the turning forces greatly if it is. The speed of the kayak plays an important roll here too, I think much more so than the action of the water flow in the waves.<<snip> Matt is quite correct in that the bow need not be in the back of the preceding wave (poorly written on my part) One can broach and capsize in smooth water as I have done when racing Thistles on small mountain lakes. However, In breaking waves the forces are tremendous and in combination with the slowing action of the immersed bow certainly cause most broaches. Has anyone calculated the force on the bow due to boat velocity relative to the wave? >Any fin hanging off >the back of the kayak (or even sticking out the bottom in this case) will >get its strength sorely tested then. Maybe that's why they call them >"breakers". I've seen even small (3 to 4 foot) breakers turn an 1/8" thick >6061 T6 aluminium rudder blade permanently into the shape of a C when the >paddler tried to use the rudder to prevent broaching while he surfed these >small breakers. Note: The paddler had announced he was going to use the >rudder (against our advice) so we were watching it closely during this >"test". It was clear to us watching that the rudder was being bent in a >tight arc in the green water on the wave face and that is when the bend >happened. Did it bend while going sideways down the wave or forward down the wave? In any case, you may want to question the aluminium in the blade. I have easily bent rudder blades with my bare hands and have even seen them bent from ordinary paddling. Not all aluminium cuts the mustard and a lot of "aircraft aluminum" gets sold that would make good pop cans.. Nick wrote: (SNIP) on rudder in a wave) >As long as the force on the rudder is pushing the stern "up" the >wave it is creating a capsize moment "down" the wave. I don't >seriously think this moment is all that significant, but I think it >is there. Even if the rudder has full immersion in the top of a non breaking wave the velocity of the water molecules diminishes its effectiveness. I have had large sailboats boats lose all control when running before large waves. In any case the flow across or against the rudder equals the boat velocity less the orbital molecule velocity. and in the case of a breaking wave less the velocity of the breaking crest. >Sailboats generally have a large keel sticking down into the wave and >the relative importance of the rudder is probably reduced.In a kayak the rudder or skeg may reach deeper into the wave than anything else and have relatively more significance. Keel boats, yes but centerborders, no. Centerboarders have more in common with kayaks and canoes with the added forces of the sails. Generally one retracts the centerboard when sailing downwind. > When a kayak broaches it tends >to get pushed fully parallel to the wave. Ditto for almost all boats. >If the wave is breaking it may force the >boat to side surf. I think at this point the rudder may extend down >into cleaner water than the rest of the boat and the capsizing moment >may be more pronounced. No question the boat can get carried sideways but it gets carried along with the breaking crest not ahead of it. Since the top third of the wave breaks I doubt if many rudders have enough depth to extend down into water that does not travel with the crest. I have seen pictures of sailboats tested in a wave tank and the entire boat, keel and all lie in the breaking crest. Duane mentioned that he had never experienced (or noticed) a capsizing moment when using a rudder nor have I. Does anyone have some kind of test that we can perform that will tell us what happens here? If so, let me know before Tuesday when I leave for Nova Scotia. I would be happy to try something while out there. Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 11:52:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01842 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01837 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:52:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com (imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14660 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.94.17bf2ca6 (16783) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94.17bf2ca6.289afb5e_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:52:14 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Racks for minivans/SUVs To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I bought Kia's 2002 Sedona minivan on Saturday. Her name is Thelma. She's a lovely dark, metallic teal color, with dual a/c, dual sliding doors, lots of cupholders, 12v outlets, lights.....etc. etc. etc. The hoot was that when I took it for a test drive I scooted over to Florida Bay Outfitters to see which racks would fit. I got Thule's Rail Riders (model 751 $200/pair) with Hull-a-Ports (J-shaped stacker/cradle) ($100/pair). They forgot to give me the "brochure" but I think I have the model number right. $400 for complete set-up to transport two boats, which is what my basic Yakima set cost five years ago. The crossbars have rubber, vice-like jaws that can be adjusted to the width of the factory racks. At 5'0" getting boats up there by myself will be a challenge, but I'm hoping a step stool will work. The system is pretty neat - looks weird - but they are made to be easily removed. You just pull out the knob and turn it, which opens the "jaws." I didn't have any trouble removing them. Works OK for SUVs also. BTW, I just received the Explorer 2 (?) rear hatch tent from www.campmor.com. It fits over the hatch and you bungee it to the tire well (?), lift up the hatch and you have a screened zippered back door. Haven't set it up yet. Now I'm looking for a Drive-Away tent which I have so far only located at www.eurocampers.com, but they are made in Germany and (apart from being quite pricey - $350 and up) aren't that generous with mosquito/no see 'um mesh netting. If anyone knows of another source, please advise. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 12:05:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05133 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05128 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23668 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72J4Jp03201 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:04:19 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA00724 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19458 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16922 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20049 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B6998B4.D8AEE372_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:15:16 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Book Review: Sea Kayak Rescue (long) References: <3B6822F0.EDD1BA5_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> <3B696F57.B29370CF_at_pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger wrote: > > Steve Cramer wrote: > > A second departure for me is in the starting position of the paddlefloat > > rescue. I really don't like to start aft of the paddle, > > I agree the comment about shorter paddlers is misplaced. > > However, I prefer the method Schumann and Shriner advocate, mainly because it > allows folks who do not have good upper body strength to get on the deck more > easily. You're right, Dave, it is easier to swim up on a rear deck, and the deck does not catch PFD pockets like the coaming does, another point that Roger and Jan make. This assumes, of course, that your deck isn't loaded with stuff that wouldn't fit in the hatches. Adding the sling, of course, makes the question of upper body strength moot. > > Where will your pictures of use of the sling be posted? I have played with use > of a sling, mainly hung around the base of the cockpit coaming, and have not > found a good technique yet. I'll put them on my website and post the URL here. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 13:23:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29769 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29764 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail301.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16532 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.113.6]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010802202335.QQK3259.imf01bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:23:35 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Racks for minivans/SUVs Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:21:57 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002a01c11b90$c79c62c0$06713dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <94.17bf2ca6.289afb5e_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I did an extended camping trip in the Keys before I moved to Florida in the mid 90s and purchased a huge piece of mosquito netting at a surplus store. I then went to Radio Shark and bought 20 or 30 bar magnets. When I set up, I popped the rear open and draped the netting over the back which was affixed and made bug tight with the magnets. I had smaller pieces for the front and side windows affixed the same way. Worked like a champ! I don need no stinkin car tent! Cya! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 13:59:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09920 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09915 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08611 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72Kvop03342 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:57:50 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00838 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09296 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl8.america.net (atl8.america.net [199.170.121.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05441 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max2-11.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.67]) by atl8.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21585; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B69BEA1.9060306_at_gsinet.net> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:57:05 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bob_at_sinkthestink.com CC: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Trip report, Graftom Pond Sunday July 22 References: <001101c11b6f$9389b580$06713dd0_at_bdenton> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob Denton wrote: > 1. Where was the pond? Florida, Canada? > 2. How big was the pond and how far did you paddle? > 3. What is the MSKC? > > cu Hi Bob. 1. I live and mostly paddle in New Hampshire. It may be a small state but we have a lot of water. 2. Grafton Pond is only about two miles long. I would say we paddled about six miles total that day. 3. MSKC is the Monadnock Sea Kayaking Club. It is an email based club with no dues, no regular meetings, and no officers. We get together for paddles and potluck dinners. A couple times each year one of the members will arrange to have an instructor for a skills class and we sign up as we see fit. I hope that clears up any confusion. I usually try to put the state name in as well but I was a bit under the gun on this one. I did not originally intend to write a trip report as the trip report is usually the responsibility of the organizer of the trip. But Linda asked me late last week to write it. Being a prime sucker for a compliment I wrote it. Mike > > -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 13:59:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10119 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10113 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08926 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.f3.dad1a84 (15886) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web48.aolmail.aol.com (web48.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.9]) by air-id08.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-0802165910; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:59:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:59:10 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <f3.dad1a84.289b191e_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anyone heard / seen / thought about a J bar system for Yakima racks? I'd rather save a couple of bucks and stay with Yakima, but I don't have the time to make my own J cradles. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Jed (desperately trying to get the new vehicle rigged to move boats so I don't have to continue using the wife's old SUV gas-guzzler) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 13:59:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10128 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10121 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08935 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.98.18951f0a (16104) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web49.aolmail.aol.com (web49.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.10]) by air-id11.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID118-0802165911; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:59:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:59:11 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <98.18951f0a.289b191f_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anyone heard / seen / thought about a J bar system for Yakima racks? I'd rather save a couple of bucks and stay with Yakima, but I don't have the time to make my own J cradles. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance, Jed (desperately trying to get the new vehicle rigged to move boats so I don't have to continue using the wife's old SUV gas-guzzler) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 14:18:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16375 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16370 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22023 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f72LI1p03368 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:18:02 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00864 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15378 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl8.america.net (atl8.america.net [199.170.121.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17529 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max2-11.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.67]) by atl8.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA26957; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B69C3C0.1070900_at_gsinet.net> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:18:56 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? References: <f3.dad1a84.289b191e_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com wrote: > Has anyone heard / seen / thought about a J bar system for Yakima racks? I'd rather save a couple of bucks and stay with Yakima, but I don't have the time to make my own J cradles. Any thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jed (desperately trying to get the new vehicle rigged to move boats so I don't have to continue using the wife's old SUV gas-guzzler) > > Hi Jed. Malone of Maine makes J cradles that fit Yak or Thule bars. Their web site is; http://www.maloneofmaine.com/ Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 16:01:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19775 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19742 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01779 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f72N1HD25798 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:01:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330104b78fed949c02_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <98.18951f0a.289b191f_at_aol.com> References: <98.18951f0a.289b191f_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 00:59:05 -0500 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Here in Holland, everyone seems to use a type of J-bar system. Basically, flattened aluminum poles with a loop on to for running straps. Very strange when all your used to seeing is Yakima and Thule. But hey, they work and they look a lot cheaper to purchase than! -Patrick (who has no car so isn't really worried about rack systems at the moment) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 16:33:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29799 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29791 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23699 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 909 invoked by uid 3027); 2 Aug 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 23:33:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:33:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium In-Reply-To: <p04330104b78fed949c02_at_[24.132.254.174]> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108021928410.71705-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, Someone from the list wrote and asked me for info on registering for WCSKS. Since TAPS has changed offices, the website hadn't been updated. I volunteered (as a board member) to add the brochure and registration forms to the site. If you go to http://www.gopaddle.org and click on events, you should find them. In addition, TAPS is trying out a new program. There will be a stable of kayaks (so to speak) and a pool of instructors to teach basic classes. There is an application form online as well to be one of the instructors. Everything is in Adobe PDF format. Please let me know how it goes if you try it out! Thanks, Andree Andree Hurley http://www.viewit.com/ - New Look, New Programs for E-commerce and Design http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ - Kayak Instruction Excellence *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 17:19:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13277 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13213 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf07bis.bellsouth.net (mail207.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.147]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21109 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.113.6]) by imf07bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010803001927.FJVH29931.imf07bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:19:27 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Patrick Maun'" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:17:49 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000f01c11bb1$ba7ed480$06713dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <p04330104b78fed949c02_at_[24.132.254.174]> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I suspect that's because the typical Dutch roofs are too narrow for two boats side by side. I assume you don't see too many Lincoln Navigators or Chevy Humongouses on the roads? The J style carrier is available here, imported from Germany and sold by Prijon/Wildwasser. Cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 17:22:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15771 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15766 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from online1.magnus1.com (online1.magnus1.com [207.114.48.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24742 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magnus.net ([207.114.80.112]) by online1.magnus1.com (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA23001; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B69ED0C.3385EF58_at_magnus.net> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:15:08 -0400 From: Ellis Andersen <ellis_at_magnus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> CC: HenryHast_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] (no subject) References: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> <3B696F0C.DB4F4EE9_at_erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Gabriel, I don't think it puts Matt in any kind of precarious position. Most of us know, and he signs with his business web site address, that he is a business owner - and a very knowledgable paddler, whose advice I listen to. I have started "tying down the Tango," after his pointed advice to me on this list. Having bought two Sedas from him, I find his advice very unbiased - he never tried to push the Mariner boats over the Sedas I liked. Regards, Ellis Gabriel L Romeu wrote: > Much as I would be interested in this, I think it puts Matt in a very > precarious position being a designer and retailer. > > HenryHast_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > > I've paddled both but only in calm conditions I liked both of them then. The > > > Aquila was more maneuverable and I thought it would be best for a bigger > > > guy. The millennium was one of only 4 kayaks I liked out of 25 kayaks I > > > tested at the 1999 West Coast Sea Kayaking Symposium. > > > > > > > > > Matt Broze > > > http://www.marinerkayaks.com > > > > > > > > > > Matt, > > could you say what the other kayaks you liked were and why. thanks in advance > > Hank Berger > > > > > > -- > ¤ Gabriel L Romeu > ¤ > http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 17:26:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16240 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16235 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27054 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010803002555.XHSK14554.femail43.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:25:55 -0700 Message-ID: <005101c11bb3$793a89e0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607F9F1_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B695F62.AD30A948_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:30:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > A fillet is a bit of extra sealer formed into a smooth, concave cross-section > that blends the surfaces joined. Easy to do. Just run the end of a > tongue-depresser along the seam, re-distributing the flow-out from the joint to > form the concave fillet. A trick I was taught, which works better with some caulks and sealants than others, is to wet your finger and use it to smooth the fillet. The thin film of water prevents the goop from sticking to your finger and you get a nice smooth surface.. With most of these sealants, I'd wear latex or vinyl gloves. Not sure how well the wetting would work with the gloves, though. Try it and see. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 17:40:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20726 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20674 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05284 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-240-159.s413.tnt1.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.240.159] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15ST0p-0001NY-00 ; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:40:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B69F3C8.20913130_at_erols.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:43:52 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ellis Andersen <ellis_at_magnus.net> CC: HenryHast_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] (no subject) References: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> <3B696F0C.DB4F4EE9_at_erols.com> <3B69ED0C.3385EF58_at_magnus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I don't think it puts Matt in any kind of precarious position. I was only looking to give him an 'out' so to speak, I would respect him declining the request. Nevertheless, as I expressed to Henry, I would also be very interested in any boat review he had to offer. I would give anything to spend a bit of time 'perusing' his personal reviews book. Most of us know, and > he signs with his business web site address, that he is a business owner - and a > very knowledgable paddler, whose advice I listen to. I couldn't agree with you more Ellis... I have started "tying down the > Tango," after his pointed advice to me on this list. Having bought two Sedas from > him, I find his advice very unbiased - he never tried to push the Mariner boats over > the Sedas I liked. He really doesn't have to push his boats from what I have experienced paddling them- I am looking to expand my fleet with his Coaster. I have also had the pleasure of buying a Silhouette from him, what he had to say was spot on after having it a while. I probably should have let Matt speak for himself. So Ellis, what do you like about the Sedas and how would you expand your fleet if you had the opportunity? > -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 17:47:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22972 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22967 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09928 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-240-159.s413.tnt1.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.240.159] helo=erols.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15ST7N-0003G1-00 ; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:47:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3B69F55E.5BF4865E_at_erols.com> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:50:38 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ellis Andersen <ellis_at_magnus.net> CC: HenryHast_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Delmarva Paddlers Retreat Registration References: <3e.f437aec.2899b3e6_at_aol.com> <3B696F0C.DB4F4EE9_at_erols.com> <3B69ED0C.3385EF58_at_magnus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I respect the list's abhorrence of advertising, so I am posting this for strictly informational purposes only. http://www.studiofurniture.com/delmarva/ -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 18:01:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28124 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28015 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18776 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7310vp03737 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:00:57 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00991 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23101 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08878 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id l.11.1808d6d1 (16117); Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web45.aolmail.aol.com (web45.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.6]) by air-id12.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID129-0802191122; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:11:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:11:21 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] J bars for Yakima? To: <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net>, <seakayaknh_at_aol.com> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <11.1808d6d1.289b381a_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net <Malone of Maine makes J cradles that fit Yak or Thule bars.> And they will fit "designer" and factory bars, too. Have two pair. Excellent, solid bar, solid fit. Not cheap. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 18:02:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28732 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28727 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20599 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7312Wp03748 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:02:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01006 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24244 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wymple.gs.net (IDENT:Z27T/55ieqdWm1QogbDWnr6yzYFJ0z/Z_at_wymple.gs.net [198.3.156.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11733 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hebert (seacajun.gs.net [204.252.210.120]) by wymple.gs.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA23112; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:50:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001801c11bb6$8b33a520$78d2fccc_at_hebert> From: "Arthur Hebert" <seacajun_at_gs.net> To: "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:52:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Rick, Dave explains a "fillet joint" below but just in case some may not fully understand. Picture running a bead of sealant in an inside corner. In this case the inside corner is formed where the bulkhead intersects with the deck / hull. After running this bead of sealant on this inside corner with your caulk gun or squeeze tube then run a tongue-depressor to help smooth out the bead of sealant( as Dave stated). Not only will it help "smooth out" and will also help with adhesion of sealant to bulkhead, deck and hull. Hope this helps, Arthur Hebert Louisiana www.lacostadelgolfo.com >Rick Sylvia wrote: > >> > Make a small fillet where the bulkhead joins the hull/deck. > >> What does "make a small fillet" mean? > Dave wrote >A fillet is a bit of extra sealer formed into a smooth, concave cross-section >that blends the surfaces joined. Easy to do. Just run the end of a >tongue-depresser along the seam, re-distributing the flow-out from the joint to >form the concave fillet. > >Probably the old sealer was formed this way. > >-- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 18:25:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04827 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04822 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04951 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-8-13.oz.net [216.39.135.205]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12541 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:33:01 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOECHCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > >4. Paddlers who use boats with rudders or skegs are heretics that will burn >in hell for all eternity. > Kevin Whilden Please clarify. If a paddler has both a touring kayak, with rudder, and a surfing kayak without a rudder, is this paddler destined for heaven, hell, limbo, or simply the eternal likelihood of buying ever more boats? - -jerry. Jerry, All the good works in the world won't make up for one unrepented occasion of sin. Of course it isn't a sin to use a rudder if you have bonded as a couple before the eyes of God and both ye paddle together as one in the same holy vessel. Only then shall ye be allowed to use a rudder and yet be saved from eternal hell fire. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 20:12:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08104 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08056 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11119 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-8-13.oz.net [216.39.135.205]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28320 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:19:38 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEEECJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Winter's wrote: >>>>>>I tend to disagree with the sideways skid. Doesn't the boat actually rotate while the stern gets swept along with the breaking crest? I can see, however that a sideways skid can occur in breaking surf. Perhaps we should confine the discussion to surf or open water waves so we don't confuse anyone (or ourselves). For my part, I have dealt with open water waves and perhaps that has caused some problems for the surfing types.<<<<<<< I think if you reread my last post I was careful to make it clear what types of waves I was talking about in each case. Among the many waves I think that we should consider are gentle waves with rounded tops (swell, gentle wind waves, or well decayed boat wakes are examples of these). These are only likely to be a problem if the wavelength is short and the wave speed is about the same as the boat speed in the same direction) so the kayak keeps station with the waves and a stern mounded rudder or skeg (or the stern keel) might be lifted enough to not do a very good job of keeping the kayak on track. (Note: there are some kayaks whose stern's yaw and swing out to one side and skid (somewhat sideways) over even in perfectly calm water without the rudder to keep them in line. Not many sea kayaks are this loose but almost all whitewater kayaks are and they take considerable attention to keep this from happening even when there are no waves at all to help lift and loosen up the stern. [And for reasons Gabriel so eloquently put "Much as I would be interested in this, I think it puts Matt in a very precarious position being a designer and retailer." I'm not going to name any of the sea kayaks right now that I am familiar with that do this, so please don't ask]. Whitecapping wind waves or fresh boat wakes (especially those with a little breaking crest) are very steep waves. They are sufficient to lift all but the longest stern mounted rudders free of the water. If the kayak can catch (or can't keep from catching) one of these steep waves (using gravity and the inclined slope of the wave to gain speed) considerable time will be spent in the "bow down tail in the air" surfing mode position where the broaching forces are strongest. These waves are steep enough (if they are big enough) to continue surfing a kayak down their face sideways (once enough kayak speed has been gained by surfing forward prior to the broach). Fins or drop skegs mounted aft of the paddler (but not way back on the stern where they can be lifted into the air) resist the sideways skid more on the stern than on the bow so depending on the wave length, and its amplitude, the kayak will only broach so far before a balance will be reached where it is just as easy to skid the bow sideways down the face of that steep wave as the stern. If nothing else changes that skidding angle will remain the same. The stern mounted rudder or fin (or a fin mostly just at the stern will cause the kayak to stutter between the multiple positions it will try to balance out at (which are different--depending mostly on if the rudder or fin is in or out of the water). Wild sideways skid, snag, straighten out, stern goes up and then skids over more again, snag rudder again, straighten out, etc. etc. The more forward mounted fin or drop skeg will only be inconsistent if the kayak is thrown suddenly into a sideways mode and skids before the front of a dumping wave or a tumbling soup (wave of translation). My experience with these breaking waves that push you along in front of them is, contrary to what John said, that you usually are left skidding sideways across the green water in front of them rather than up in the soup (except as they first break). Even with the spilling breakers (as opposed to dumping breakers) the tumbling soup pushes you down the green sloping face in front of the tumbling foam. Due to the wave's slope and your direction skidding down it (as opposed to the more level surface the wave of translation pushes you across) it will be even more likely you couldn't lean enough down wave to spill water off a fin without window shading. In my experiences in surf one doesn't spend much time in the upper third of a steep face of a breaking wave. Once that wave settles into a wave of translation (soup) you quickly fall to the bottom of the steep whitewater face and end up being pushed sideways across the standing (green) water the whitewater is sliding over. Quite a lean into the wave must be maintained even with the smoothest most rounded of hulls to not be window-shaded. A rigid fin sticking down will add a lot more grip on that green standing water. Perhaps it is the flexibility of the rudder blade and mounting that dampens the tripping moment somewhat. A big enough breaking wave or wave of translation will nearly instantly broach any long object that isn't oriented straight in the direction of the waves motion. Moving water hits the end closest to it first and pushes it forward at the wave's speed. If the wave is moving faster than the long object the object will be nearly completely sideways by the time the wave reaches the other end of the object. At that point the entire object will be pushed in front of the wave unless it can somehow get a good enough grip on the standing water below it to hold station and let the tumbling pushy water pass. In a kayak, capsizing and anchoring your body in the standing water while tightly gripping the kayak with your knees (so it is not stripped from your body) will work (up to a point) to stop this skidding sideways. Except in quite small breakers nothing else will stop your progress skidding sideways towards shore until the wave diminishes enough to get the bow or stern turned into it (and with a sea kayak that is usually less than a foot high soup). You MAY skid sideways on steep enough non-breaking waves. You WILL skid sideways in breakers and soups. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 21:55:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10772 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10767 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sm10.texas.rr.com (sm10.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.222]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14290 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbell.net (cs666878-203.austin.rr.com [66.68.78.203]) by sm10.texas.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) with ESMTP id f734sPGI008582 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:54:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3B6A2FAD.C6A843FF_at_swbell.net> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:59:25 -0500 From: Rob Dee <plz_at_swbell.net> Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-SBI-NC472 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Makeshift tents...was minivans/ racks etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob Denton's reply to Sandy Kramer about making a makeshift tent out of a mini van and surplus mosquito netting reminded me of the tent that I made for the bed of my pick up truck... I hope that this info will be of some use to some of you Paddlewisers. I did not want a camper shell for my pickup truck but the idea came from one. I fashioned a frame roughly the shape of a camper shell out of pvc pipes and joints. When in transit I removed the "rafter" pipes and folded the "sides" down into the bed of my truck. I made a sort of mosquito net tent to cover the frame, the "rafters" of the frame slipped through the channels that I had stitched into the mosquito net and hung down on the inside of the bed of the truck where I attached it with magnet strips just as Bob described ( a couple of dozen of them cut into 2" strips.) For rain or more serious weather I just threw a light tarp over the whole affair and bungeed it down to the fender wells from the grommets. I picked up a foam mat at a garage sale and trimmed it to fit the bed of my truck and the whole thing cost me about $25.00. The fact that I am a Texan (clever) and not a Scot (cheap) should be noted here. Happy camping and paddling to all, Rob Dee - Austin, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 21:56:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10983 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10978 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14642 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f734tK228500; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: <00c601c11bd8$db18b540$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <000001c11b84$ac4c5040$d299fea9_at_jwinters> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:47:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net (big snip before and after ) > Even if we could assume that the rudder contributed a capsizing force, how > would one quantify it given the mixed bag of flow and boat attitude? Not to mention paddler attitude ;-) Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 22:03:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13820 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13815 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20169 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7351q231313; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:01:53 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c11bd9$c50b7480$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Andree Hurley" <ahurley_at_viewit.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108021928410.71705-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] West Coast Sea Kayak Symposium Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:04:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net That page is worth the visit for that little wavy thing that you think you see and then you don't and then you do :-) http://www.gopaddle.org Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 22:58:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29249 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29244 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22556 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-4-58.oz.net [216.39.134.250]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07148; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:57:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: <carrot_at_vision.net.au> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:05:49 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEEECKCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "Wilky" <carrot_at_vision.net.au> asked: >>>>>>>Does any body have any information of a kayak builder in NZ called Adventure Kayaks, they built a boat called an Estuary Boat???? Cheers Wilky >From Tasmania<<<<<<<< I was hoping someone might be able to clue us both in on this one. My understanding from an owner (Norm Sanders) in Australia is that this is an Australian kayak designed by Geoff Baker. Norm told me it was 15' 8" long and 24" wide. I first saw mention of it in a letter in the Sept. 87 Tasmanian club journal so it's origins may be closer to you than you realize. I also heard of an Estuary Plus sometime around 1996 but have no information beyond that on it. I do not have a manufacturer's name connected with the Estuary so maybe it was built by the designer in his garage or something like that. Norm is from Tuross Head in New South Wales and designed the Inuit Classic (15-5) that is built by Bateman's Bay Power & Sail. He has been on Paddlewise on occasion before but I can't seem to find his e-mail address today. Oh, here it is: <oldcdog_at_telstra.easymail.com.au> If you can find out any more information on the Estuary (Boat) beyond what I just gave you please pass it along. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 2 23:17:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05342 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05337 Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au (genesis.amsa.gov.au [203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04867 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex4.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.252.18]) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16074; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:13:06 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex5.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.18]) by cbrex4.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:16:13 +1000 Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:16:13 +1000 Message-ID: <183CF1E5861B194CB4AD64457D9F433F01E613_at_cbrex5.amsa.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" content-class: urn:content-classes:message Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ Thread-Index: AcEb4pkAwAWgEhoTTNCkh6fX1TePZQAAFZLA From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>, "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: <carrot_at_vision.net.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 06:16:13.0401 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBCFE490:01C11BE3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id XAA05338 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt I used to own the boat you are referring to, called the Estuary, and I believe the one I had was designed by Geoff Baker. I have a photo of it but not the boat any more. Unfortunatey the kayak lost an argument with some rocks in a 2 Metre swell. Last email I got from Norm he was still at oldcdog_at_telstra.easymail.com.au. David Australia -----Original Message----- From: Matt Broze [mailto:mkayaks_at_oz.net] Sent: Friday, 3 August 2001 4:06 PM To: Paddlewise Cc: carrot_at_vision.net.au Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Adventure Kayaks NZ "Wilky" <carrot_at_vision.net.au> asked: >>>>>>>Does any body have any information of a kayak builder in NZ called Adventure Kayaks, they built a boat called an Estuary Boat???? Cheers Wilky >From Tasmania<<<<<<<< I was hoping someone might be able to clue us both in on this one. My understanding from an owner (Norm Sanders) in Australia is that this is an Australian kayak designed by Geoff Baker. Norm told me it was 15' 8" long and 24" wide. I first saw mention of it in a letter in the Sept. 87 Tasmanian club journal so it's origins may be closer to you than you realize. I also heard of an Estuary Plus sometime around 1996 but have no information beyond that on it. I do not have a manufacturer's name connected with the Estuary so maybe it was built by the designer in his garage or something like that. Norm is from Tuross Head in New South Wales and designed the Inuit Classic (15-5) that is built by Bateman's Bay Power & Sail. He has been on Paddlewise on occasion before but I can't seem to find his e-mail address today. Oh, here it is: <oldcdog_at_telstra.easymail.com.au> If you can find out any more information on the Estuary (Boat) beyond what I just gave you please pass it along. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com ************************************************************************ *** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ************************************************************************ *** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 02:24:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA02833 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02823 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02647 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip210.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.210]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f739N0C04491; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B6A6CDC.863EB654_at_pacifier.com> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:20:28 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Noxious Aquatic Weed Survey Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Over the last month or so, another retired guy and I have been using our sea kayaks to survey a local bay for noxious aquatic weeds. This was a first, locally, and has worked well enough I thought I would pass on the details to others who might pursue similar surveys in their area. The survey area is Youngs Bay, a several-square-mile side-bay to the lower Columbia River Estuary. It is heavily tidally influenced, and brackish. Because it is in the center of the collision zone involving fresh and salt water, fine sediments are generated in huge amounts. This makes for large tide flats composed of very soft, incredibly stinky, hip-deep mud. (Jenna Bush: Ewwww!) We have been surveying for three species: spartina alterniflora (SA), purple loosestrife (PLS), and giant reed grass (GRG). The first is what stimulated the survey. It is taking over nearby Willapa Bay, destroying quality habitat in the uppper reaches of the intertidal zone and threatening a productive and valuable oyster fishery. The local soil and water conservation district was concerned that spartina might be invading Youngs Bay, and got a grant from the State of Oregon to survey for it. We got involved because we knew the guy coordinating the survey, and he wondered if we could do it from our kayaks. We said, "Sure!" not knowing whether that was true or not. Long story short, we have spent about half our survey time on the water, and the other half walking the dikes that define the bay's edges. Dike walking works well for the PLS and GRG, but not the SA. PLS and GRG populate the "dry" parts of the intertidal zone, which is saturated only at the highest tides (over 8-10 foot tides), and consequently can be hard to spot behind the 3- to 4-foot tall "forest" of reeds, sedges, and rushes that envelopes the bay shore. These two species are just beginning to colonize the bay, and will be a real problem if not controlled. Both will eventually dominate the upper zone vegetation, and turn it into a monocultural area less favorable to aquatic/terrestrial critters: ducks, herons, muskrats, and the like. We have not found any spartina alterniflora, and we think we would have if it were present, which is good news. This stuff can grow in the deep mud of the bay, most likely at the water side of existing vegetation. It differs in color and structure from the other green stuff in clear but subtle ways. To make sure a patch of greenery is NOT SA, we need to be within 20 feet or so. That means we have to paddle within 20 feet of the Mean Higher High Water mark (about 6 feet of tide). This limits our survey windows to the hour and a half or so on either side of high tide. So we have to launch from a ramp on a rising tide, paddle like hell to a distant shoreline, and then carefully parallel the shore, watching the tide and the time. If we dally too long, a falling tide can leave us stranded on that revolting mud ... overnight, most likely! Most days, we can cover about 4 miles of shoreline this way. This has turned out to be a cost-effective survey technique for the soil and water conservation district folks. A survey via skiff, for example, would be restricted to a much narrower window of tide, because of the deeper draft of an outboard. Other craft that could do the survey (air boat or jetski) would be expensive for the district to purchase or operate. Could be there are similar opportunities for this sort of thing in your paddling area. Oh, yeah, did I mention that we get PAID to paddle around and ogle the birds, mammals, and green stuff? Tough work! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR professional spartina detector *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 05:53:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA10926 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10921 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f130.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.130]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08436 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:53:01 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.116 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:53:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.116] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:53:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F130rvoGdKO8FNpyLAP0001190f_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 12:53:01.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[3AB1A560:01C11C1B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am putting together a proposed class for a sea kayak symposium next year. The goal of the workshop will be to develop a feel for the kayak and increase balance skills. My thought is that I will introduce students to some of the really weird things one can do in a boat that require balance and/or flexibility as well as just have people do fun and strange things that do not require extra equipment. If any of you recall the Sea Kayaker article by Nigel Foster that had strokes such as the one he called the Buffoon Stroke, you'll get the idea. I have a warm-up routine that slalom champion Richard Fox once used that includes things like paddling a kayak with a C-1 stroke [only one side, in other words] with the boat tilted on edge or using a compound reverse canoe stroke. Also, I like paddling with hands only to really feel how leaned turns can work. Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would be willing to share and let me use in the class? If you give me anything and would like something in return, I'll send you a copy of the Fox warm-up, it really is a fun and skill-building thing, either by mail or as an attachment to an email. Thank you all in advance. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 07:37:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12206 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12196 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:36:58 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12301 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.ad.e503442 (15905) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web25.aolmail.aol.com (web25.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.1]) by air-id09.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID98-0803103647; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:36:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:36:46 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] New German Sea Kayak(ing) Forum To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <ad.e503442.289c10ff_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The organizers of the new German speaking kayaking forum I mentioned the other day have decided to fill an already existing forum under www.Spierentonne.de with life rather than continuing the start-up of the new one. And alive it is even beyond the ongoing "club-feud", which was pointed out on PW as having aflicted the initial effort. Check out http://www.myphorum.de/forum/list.php?f=2093 or visit www.spierentonne.de and click on "Freies Seekajakforum" in the list in the top left hand corner. Since there are a number of bilingual cross-over contributors, the combination of PW and Spierentonne should serve well to bridge any geographic and linguistic differences and further broaden the catchment area for the exchange of (sea-) kayaking related information. Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 09:39:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19310 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19304 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.academicplanet.com (mail.academicplanet.com [209.245.216.197]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01252 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from academicplanet.com (dialup-64.158.39.226.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net [64.158.39.226]) by mail.academicplanet.com (8.11.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f73GacU00465; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:36:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3B6AEECB.DAD5B09C_at_academicplanet.com> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:34:51 -0700 From: Marilyn Kircus <mkircus_at_academicplanet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Paddlewise, Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, "ckayak-tx, ckayak-tx" <ckayak-tx_at_yahoogroups.com>, "HoustonCanoeClub_at_listbot.com" <Hcc_at_houstoncanoeclub.org> Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddling Food Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I just bought a bag of sweet potato pancake mix. You just add water and the mix is so good you can eat it with a spoon. I made pancakes with blueberries for breakfast with maple syrup and decided this food had to be in my food pack next time I went paddling/camping. You can also make muffins and waffles with it. I think you could add powered egg mix to make the muffins as a just-add-water camping mix. I bought it at HEB but they have a site. http://www.brucefoods.com/ Marilyn Kircus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 09:45:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22048 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22040 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07319 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f73GjGp05258 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:45:16 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01404 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24328 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10608.mail.yahoo.com (web10608.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.172]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA08029 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010803151748.8704.qmail_at_web10608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.225.53] by web10608.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:17:48 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:17:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sling Rescue was:(Book Review...) To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> wrote: >However, I prefer the method Schumann and Shriner advocate, mainly >because it allows folks who do not have good upper body strength to get >on the deck more easily. Mounting aft of the outrigger depresses the >stern. Not only that, but the method of throwing a leg over the paddleshaft (while it requires a stronger paddleshaft) gets one's body up farther in the water column, so less effort is required to keep the body from resting in a vertical manner. I find the "mount forward of the paddle shaft" method to be quicker, and personally preferable, but many of my students find the "Schuman and Shriner" method more reliable. >Where will your pictures of use of the sling be posted? I have played >with use of a sling, mainly hung around the base of the cockpit >coaming, and have not found a good technique yet. Dave, try looping the sling over the far end of your paddle, under the hull, and take a couple of wraps around the paddle shaft. Step into that loop that hangs down directly below the wraps. Wrapping the shaft has the benefit of being able to adjust the stirrup's length. It also "locks" your paddle shaft and boat together, and keeps the paddle more perpendicular to the boat. I have decent balance and upper-body strength, so I try to spend as little time as possible performing rescues. With the "S&S" rescue (for me), and the sling rescue especially (for everybody), it seems to take a bit more time to perform the rescue, and I don't like to expose myself any longer than I have to. They are, however, probably more reliable, so if the choice is between 3 failed attempts at a in-front-of-the- paddle rescue and a single "S&S"/Sling rescue, go for the sling rescue. It's a gimmick, a trick, another piece of gear to fail, but it also works. I try to recommend to my students to learn as much finesse and "momentum" moves, and skills as possible before adding gear to the mix. Some people will never have the flexibility, or take the time to develop the balance to perform maneuvers unassisted or with a minimum of gear. That's fine, but they should not expect to be as proficient in potentially dangerous conditions where finesse, balance, and quick responses may be critical. I have a couple of students who needed both a paddlefloat and sling while performing an assisted rescue. I won't recommend that they venture out onto the big lake, but it just might save their lives on their regular paddles in a smaller body of water. (These last two paragraphs weren't necessarily directed at you Dave, but more of a general statement about gear vs. skills) Shawn Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 09:50:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23786 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23667 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09197 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f73GoQp05273 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:26 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA01418 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18882 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cruzio.com (root_at_mail.cruzio.com [63.249.64.37]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00549 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bootdisk (sa-63-249-68-146.cruzio.com [63.249.68.146]) by mail.cruzio.com with SMTP id JAA08091; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c11c3a$a3c40ce0$9244f93f_at_bootdisk> From: "Jan Shriner" <postmaster_at_eskapekayak.com> To: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:37:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jim, I agree that practicing weird strokes is a great way to improve boat handling skills. >I am putting together a proposed class for a sea kayak symposium next year... >that I will introduce students to >some of the really weird things one can do in a boat >I have a warm-up routine that slalom champion Richard Fox once used that >includes things like paddling a kayak with a C-1 stroke >Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would be willing >to share and let me use in the class? > I'll send you a copy of the Fox warm-up, it really >is a fun and skill-building thing, either by mail or as an attachment to an >email. I've been an ACA instructor trainer in sea kayaking for the past 6 years, and last year crossed over into teaching whitewater. I found the stroke drills in Eric Jackson's book Whitewater Skills and Concepts an excellent resource, and my boat handling skills, which I thought were good to begin with, became even more refined both in my ww kayak and my sea kayak. I've since begun practicing whitewater drills with my students in sea kayaks. One of my favorite exercises is a combination of a forward stroke that turns directly into a sideslip when it reaches your hip, then slides forward into a bow draw to turn your boat to one side; the sequence is then followed on the opposite side to turn your boat the other way, then repeated back and forth from side to side. A challenging drill even in a ww kayak, it takes a lot of precision to get your sea kayak to weave back and forth while continuing to glide forward. If you want "weird," this whole sequence can also be done as a cross-bow drill. I use my own long-boat variations of these EJ stroke drills now in my rock garden classes, and find that the students enjoy them and their boat handling improves. I also practice them myself when out in my surf kayak instead of just sitting there while waiting for the next set of waves to arrive. Check out EJ's book if you haven't already. I also enjoy practicing one-handed sculling draws, side slips, forward strokes, bracing and rolling for developing blade feel. I'd be really interested in the slalom workout if you wouldn't mind sending a copy my way. Unfortunately we recently had a computer virus, so I'm not opening attachments for the time being. My snail mail address is below. BTW: Good luck with your weird strokes presentation, it's a great idea. We're currently scrambling to put a Rescues and Reentries presentation together for both the Outdoor Retailer show in Utah in a couple weeks and for the W.Coast syposium in Pt. Townsend in Sept. Roger Schumann and Jan Shriner Eskape Sea Kayaking 415 Windsor St. #B Santa Cruz CA 95062 Authors of Sea Kayak Rescue *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 10:00:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26976 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26933 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com (e21.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.227]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16265 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA126132 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:58:22 -0500 Received: from d04nm200.raleigh.ibm.com (d04nm200.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.226.57]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f73H0OC51414 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:00:24 -0400 Subject: [Paddlewise] Ban on SnowMobiles in no wake zones. NOT A JOKE! To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.6a January 17, 2001 Message-ID: <OF7FE96B2C.3CB72A5C-ON85256A9D.005CD683_at_raleigh.ibm.com> From: "Dan McCarty" <dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:00:21 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D04NM200/04/M/IBM(Build M9_05202001 Beta 2|May 20, 2001) at 08/03/2001 01:00:24 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This is not a joke! Check out the story on nando net. http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/55003p-809860c.html Montana just put a temporary ban on the sport of snow mobile skipping after the death of a rider. People are riding snow mobiles at high speed into lakes to "skip" them across the water. Apparently one guy tried this and his 500 pound snow mobile failed to skip and instead sank. Montana has a no wake law that appears to cover most shorelines. Snow mobile skipping is banned in no wake zones. Furthermore they can't "skip" near docks, ramps, fishing, or swimming areas. Or in State Parks. Operators of "skipping" snow mobilers must be 16 or older and wear a PFD..... LOL! But I'm not making this up!!!! I thought the JetSkis were bad..... LOL! 8-) Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:03:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16633 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16627 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.wayne.edu (realmail1.wayne.edu [141.217.1.79]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29484 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spamcop.net (pmail.cit.wayne.edu [141.217.25.25]) by mail1.wayne.edu (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13506 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B6AE746.3A9284FF_at_spamcop.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:02:46 -0400 From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> X-Sender: "Michael Edelman" <aa0029_at_mail.wayne.edu> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Best sealer for bulkheads Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> > A trick I was taught, which works better with some caulks and sealants than > others, is to wet your finger and use it to smooth the fillet. The thin > film of > water prevents the goop from sticking to your finger and you get a nice > smooth surface.. Good for silicones, latex caulks and some polyurethanes like Polyseamseal. Bad for marine sealants like Sikaflex and 5200, which will stick to your skin and be difficult to remove. -- mike --------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org (nomadics) http://www.findascope.com (choosing a telescope) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:04:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16807 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16802 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00674 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.31.134] (host-31-134.dsl-sea.seanet.com [208.12.31.134]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00503; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:13:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes From: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> To: James Tibensky <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B79037CF.1670%rexrob_at_mac.com> In-Reply-To: <F130rvoGdKO8FNpyLAP0001190f_at_hotmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >I am putting together a proposed class for a sea kayak symposium next year. >The goal of the workshop will be to develop a feel for the kayak and >increase balance skills. >Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would be willing >to share and let me use in the class? Paddle Backwards: Line the students up and have a "paddle backwards" race for about 50 or 100 meters. Paddling backwards is very useful at times but is often a neglected skill. Eyes Closed: The following is one of my favorites but it's done in currents so you most likely won't be able to use this at a symposium. Maybe you'll come up with some flat water eyes-closed exercises. Hip snaps with low bracing with your eyes closed is one good exercise. I do this in the one day tidal rapids class that I teach. Later in the day when the students are getting comfortable crossing eddylines and when the ebb current is getting stronger so that eddyline is getting some boils and whirlpools we will do some paddling and drifting on the eddlyline with our eyes closed. Not everyone is ready for this but some will try it. For the more experience I'll have them close there eyes while they are still in the eddy and slowly paddle into the rough water and drift down stream for 30 or 40 meters or more keeping their eyes closed as much as they are willing. For those who are more timid I'll have them paddle into the rough water with their eyes open and then close their eyes. With your eyes closed you can concentrate on feeling the current act on the boat. If you feel the current tug on one side of the kayak then edge up the other side. I'll have them hold the paddle so they are ready to do a low brace if needed. I'll drift with them and encourage them to relax by taking deep slow breaths. Listen to the sounds of the currents around you. Relax your face, relax your shoulder muscles, rock the boat side to side a little, loosen up. Let go of your fear, let go of your anger, forgive your parents, feel the force Luke. Okay, I'm getting carried away, but you get the idea. Rex Roberton Jim, I'd like to take a look at the Fox warm up. Send an attachment. Thanks. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:12:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19705 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19700 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10604.mail.yahoo.com (web10604.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.168]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA05184 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010803181213.52347.qmail_at_web10604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.225.53] by web10604.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:12:13 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Little Wavy Thing was: (WCSKS) To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> wrote: >That page is worth the visit for that little wavy thing that you think >you see and then you don't and then you do :-) No kidding! Cool graphics, Andree! Shawn Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:21:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22896 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22890 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10601.mail.yahoo.com (web10601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11189 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010803182139.8468.qmail_at_web10601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.225.53] by web10601.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:21:39 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:21:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes To: James Tibensky <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net How about paddling backwards while upside-down (sort of like a normal forward stroke (sans oxygen)), paddling forwards upside-down (paddle in reverse to go forward). A dive mask is useful. Turn your torso 90* and paddle sideways. (Not a draw stroke--use both blades on that side of the boat). Paddle while laying on your back on the aft deck. I really like practicing bracing and rolling while a partner rocks and rolls your boat (same thing as the Rough Water Simulator that Steve Cramer mentioned in his re-entry post a day or two ago.) Paddling the boat while upside-down (paddler right side-up, sitting on inverted hull) is great balance practice. Simply try to paddle forward normally. When you get cocky, take your feet out of the water! Shawn Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:57:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02918 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02912 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f185.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.185]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05287 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:19 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.114 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:57:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.114] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:57:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F185uchi3d95We2ytmE00011d2a_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 18:57:19.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EE1B5E0:01C11C4E] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This sport has been practiced in Wisconsin for many years. Beer and Brats do something unusual to the brain. Add water and it gets even stranger. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 11:57:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02938 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02933 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f22.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05436 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 11:57:45 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.114 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:57:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.114] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Ban on SnowMobiles in no wake zones. NOT A JOKE Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 13:57:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F22D9j21HLfahogx45f00011f93_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 18:57:45.0507 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E6DF730:01C11C4E] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This sport has been practiced in Wisconsin for many years. Beer and Brats do something unusual to the brain. Add water and it gets even stranger. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 12:53:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21544 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21539 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:53:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0.n0c.net (IDENT:root_at_mx0.n0c.net [199.231.133.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14169 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net (24-240-41-6.hsacorp.net [24.240.41.6]) by mx0.n0c.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f73JIOx27602; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:18:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:20:19 -0700 From: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53o) Personal Reply-To: Melissa Reese <melissa_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Organization: Musica Insomnia Message-ID: <4215148201.20010803122019_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> To: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> CC: James Tibensky <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com>, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes In-Reply-To: <B79037CF.1670%rexrob_at_mac.com> References: <B79037CF.1670%rexrob_at_mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Friday, August 03, 2001, at 11:13:19 AM PDT, Rex Roberton wrote: > Eyes Closed: > The following is one of my favorites but it's done in currents so > you most likely won't be able to use this at a symposium. Maybe > you'll come up with some flat water eyes-closed exercises. Hip snaps > with low bracing with your eyes closed is one good exercise. > I do this in the one day tidal rapids class that I teach. Later in > the day when the students are getting comfortable crossing eddylines > and when the ebb current is getting stronger so that eddyline is > getting some boils and whirlpools we will do some paddling and > drifting on the eddlyline with our eyes closed. This is a technique I practice here as well, and find it very useful - and fun! I also enjoy paddling long distances in choppy, moderately chaotic wind waves with my eyes closed. With wind, swell, and current coming from different directions, it's good practice - and simply enjoyable! - to acutely feel and hear, rather than to depend so much on just sight. Just as in "solid ground" activities, we don't realize how much we depend on sight - at the expense of our other wonderful senses - until we actually try to go without it for a while. We all know blind people with "incredible" hearing - even "sonar", sense of smell, touch, etc. I experiment a lot with my various senses while on the water, so I'll sometimes wear ear plugs. By doing so, I instantly notice how important sound is to me when dealing with wind and waves. In the absence of sound, my other senses go into a greater state of awareness. And so it is with sense of smell as well. Those of us fortunate enough to have use of all our basic senses are often guilty of not using each to it's greatest potential. By isolating each, we strengthen and learn to appreciate the others. When it comes to both safety *and* enjoyment of paddling, it only makes sense to use all that we naturally have at our disposal - which is often more than we realize. Melissa -- PGP public keys: mailto:pgp_keys_at_gmx.co.uk?subject=PGP_Keys_1&Body=Please%20send%20keys *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 13:46:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07859 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07854 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18617 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29931 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B6B0E4E.2A6F3796_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:49:18 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes References: <F130rvoGdKO8FNpyLAP0001190f_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net James Tibensky wrote: > > Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would be willing > to share and let me use in the class? I got this from Nigel Foster. Paddle with two strokes on each side of the boat (ie, right, right, left, left). Not so weird, you say? It is if you use both blades each time. Another from Nigel. Paddle with the edge of the blade, so you don't move the boat forward at all. A really cool moonwalk effect if you have a little current to work with. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 14:07:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14114 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14107 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: MJAkayaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02137 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MJAkayaker_at_aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.91.e579dd3 (3956) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <91.e579dd3.289c6c2d_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:05:49 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am not sure what its really called, but I think it is a pretty weird stroke. It hardly moves the kayak (good for group demo's since people do not get separated) it splashes lots of water on the entry (makes it easy for instructor to know if the student is doing it right), and it lifts tons of water up in the air as the paddle exits the water (excellet for cooling off the student behind you). Again I am not sure what others call it, but I refer to it as "my forward stroke". Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 14:12:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16887 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16882 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06996 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f73LCbZ26722 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:12:37 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f73LCW2123712 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:12:33 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:12:33 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Upper body strength and rescues Message-ID: <3B6AE991.26823.1E9907E_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hm, I read the previous posting and though about my own experience and somebody I observed a couple of days ago during a rescue class. First, from my own experience I think the trick during all "climb back on the deck first" rescues is to keep your feet on the surface, i.e. stay as horizontal as possible on the watersurface. Once you are vertical in the water it is very hard to climb back on the deck, since your feet tend to dive under the boat and you get in a lean back position. The next big thing for me was to switch from "climbing" on the deck to push the boat down and pull it underneath me. For a bystander the difference in this point may be subtle, but for me it is the difference between getting onto the deck easy or with hard work. Since the water and the pfd support most of your body weight everybody who can paddle a kayak has enough upper body strength to climb back on the stern deck, if the technique is right! It's like during a roll, if you have to muscle your way up you did something wrong. Stay low and let the water carry most of your body weight. That's my experience, and I would like to know if other see things in a similar way, or totally different. In the class mentioned I observed a student who wasn't able to get up on the rear deck of the kayak during an assisted rescue. Problem #1 Bad fit of the PFD! It rode up till the side straps were touching the arm pits. Hard to do something if your vision is obstructed by the lifejacket. (BTW was one of these rodeo style pfds, foam only up to the mid chest and then suspenders). Problem #2 Person was floating vertical in the water. Every attempt toclimb on the deck resulted in the feet moving under the kayak, pulling the person back down. Problem #3 Frustration after several failures. The fun was gone. Problem #4 Person more on the heavy, not very sporty side. But that was the least problem. The instructor failed to recognize and to correct #1 and #2. He also didn't come up with an suitable alternative, like the sling rescue which may have helped with #3 and #4. All he offered was the rescue were you get between the two boats and brace your arms on either decks to lift your feet and legs first out of the water. I tried that in the past myself and found it awkward. It's also physical demanding, and the student was at that point strength- and endurancewise done, set aside the frustration. For him the class was over at that point. I think that all those problems were easier to spot from a distance, and not being involved in the action. Since the instructor was the rescuer in this scenario, his perspective was likely not the one to spot all the things which added up to the failure. He should have stayed passive and in an observer position, while two students worked together. Next time on the Lake I think me and my friends will practice just this. Getting each other out of the water with the victim playing a weak and helpless (we already tried a couple of times the scoop rescue of somebody pretending to be knocked out). However, I think with a rescue sling as backup this should work with almost every concious person. One should know how to do that, if you don't wnat to watch somebody slipping into hypothermia or worse. Cheers ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 15:35:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12038 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12032 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02101 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 90641 invoked by uid 3027); 3 Aug 2001 22:35:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:35:29 -0000 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:35:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> cc: <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Little Wavy Thing was: (WCSKS) In-Reply-To: <20010803181213.52347.qmail_at_web10604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108031831550.88719-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Actually, I can't take credit for that one, much as I would like to! I did go back to check it out - it's an animated background gif, only about 1 or two inches long, that tiles down the page... Andree > >you see and then you don't and then you do :-) Andree Hurley http://www.viewit.com/ - New Look, New Programs for E-commerce and Design http://www.onwatersports.com/ - KIX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 15:41:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14132 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14099 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04640 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 91897 invoked by uid 3027); 3 Aug 2001 22:40:50 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:40:50 -0000 Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:40:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes In-Reply-To: <4215148201.20010803122019_at_bonnyweeboaty.net> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108031836130.88719-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I also have people practice moving from a gentle low brace to a high brace while keeping the boat on edge, finishing with a snap, with and without eyes closed. Good for dexterity and balance. I work on balance alot. >From whitewater slalom training there are some great moves. In the pool or open water I paddle and gain speed, slice from the stern to about center, and then keeping the paddle in the water do a move that is like stirring a caldron; kind of a dufek draw sort of thing. It spins the boat in circles and is great for making tight turns, like around gates or pilings. Works the waist too! Andree Hurley http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ - Kayak Instruction Excellence *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 15:46:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15329 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15323 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08825 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip125.ast3.pacifier.com [66.43.9.125]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f73MjNC27764; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B6B292F.FF6427DB_at_pacifier.com> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:43:59 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Noxious Aquatic Weed Survey References: <B7907373.1B481%djr_at_mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "David J. Russell" wrote: > How was the survey recorded, i.e. by eye on existing maps, maps sketched in > the field with the locations or GPS co-ordinates? These technical details > might be of interest (and use)to others. Waypoints from a GPS, indexed to species and number/concentration of species. For example: N 46 deg 09.949 min W 123 deg 49.656 min -- 12 PLS on dike. Suspect these will be converted into a map detailing locations, ultimately for control. At this point, two people in an air boat working for a couple days could control (by hand pulling) all of the PLS in the area we surveyed. In succeeding years, the task would take only a day or two. Cheap. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 16:11:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22674 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22558 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xprt.net (root_at_xprt.net [209.102.124.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22585; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [209.102.127.135] (pdx-ppp290.pop1.net [209.102.127.127]) by xprt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA15422; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:09:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: xprt.net: Host pdx-ppp290.pop1.net [209.102.127.127] claimed to be [209.102.127.135] X-Sender: tina_at_pop3.pcez.com Message-Id: <l03130306b790c7dca94e_at_[209.102.127.135]> In-Reply-To: <200108031650.JAA23908_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:08:57 -0700 To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net, paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net From: Tina <tina_at_bentobuggy.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching? Cc: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Is all the discussion about broaching and capsizing with a deployed rudder referring to an empty boat? Otherwise, wouldn't factors such as direction of paddler's lean, (and how aggressively), type of stroke or brace used, (and on which side of the boat), attitude, (as in rigid / paralyzed with fear), hull design, momentum, weight, etc, etc, have more influence than a rudder in a potential capsize situation, in surf or steep chop? Just wondering out loud. Tina Portland, Oregon "D McNally wrote; >(big snip before and after ) >> Even if we could assume that the rudder contributed a capsizing force, how >> would one quantify it given the mixed bag of flow and boat attitude? > >Not to mention paddler attitude ;-) > >Diane ---------------------------------------------------- _____________ / -()-()-()-()-()- / I / -()-()-()-()-()- / / /___________/ / I___________I / Experience O R L X T C at the Bento Buggy: http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy/bxtc.htm --------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 17:14:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13032 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13027 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:13:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07121 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.a2.17d1888d (2615) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <a2.17d1888d.289c9815_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:13:09 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Upper body strength and rescues To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, I think an important aspect of sea kayaking (including rescues) that is underrated or ignored is physical fitness. Sure, skills are very important and can make up for some lack of physical fitness, but sea kayaking (including doing rescues) is a physical sport, unless you just plan to paddle around a small pound. Being physically fit increases your enjoyment of the sport, as well as the safety. When I held the rescue practice a couple of weeks ago, there were some people who became exhausted only after a few rescues. I stayed busy the entire two hours, doing about 30 rolls, 15 reentry and rolls, 15 paddlefloat reentries, 5 assisted rescues, and helped empty a kayak that almost sank. After the rescue practice and potluck lunch, I had to go paddle another hour, because I didn't get enough exercise. Sea kayaking is a great reason to stay physically fit. My personal program, year around, is to ride a bike 45 minutes, lift weights in a circuit course 30 minutes, and do yoga 15 minutes on Tuesdays and Fridays, and then kayak on Sundays, paddling 10-20 miles or going kayak surfing. It doesn't make me competitive for racing, but it keeps me ready for just about anything in touring. Duane Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 17:21:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15445 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15416 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10596 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f740LFp05900 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:21:15 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01661 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09058 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mcn.org (root_at_mail.mcn.org [204.189.12.13]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25948 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.193.13.53] (ha-2e-men-p1-m17.mcn.org [63.193.13.53]) by mail.mcn.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f73Ma4n06272; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:36:04 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:27:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Noxious Aquatic Weed Survey From: "David J. Russell" <djr_at_mcn.org> To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B7907373.1B481%djr_at_mcn.org> In-Reply-To: <3B6A6CDC.863EB654_at_pacifier.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave: How was the survey recorded, i.e. by eye on existing maps, maps sketched in the field with the locations or GPS co-ordinates? These technical details might be of interest (and use)to others. -- David > From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:20:28 -0700 > To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Subject: [Paddlewise] Noxious Aquatic Weed Survey > > Over the last month or so, another retired guy and I have been using our sea > kayaks to survey a local bay for noxious aquatic weeds. <<<CUT>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 19:27:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22471 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22466 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29119 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Riverview58.tbaytel.net [204.101.55.108]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f742OQ344758 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:24:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6B5C50.41A38CC4_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 22:22:10 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ban on SnowMobiles in no wake zones. NOT A JOKE! References: <OF7FE96B2C.3CB72A5C-ON85256A9D.005CD683_at_raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Check out Tower Road in MacTier, Ontario, every March (I forget which weekend), when they chop a channel in the ice, and see how many Bubba's can sink their snow machines. http://www.news-information.muskoka-ontario.com/so-muskoka/mactier.htm Cheers, Richard Culpeper Dan McCarty wrote: > This is not a joke! Check out the story on nando net. > > http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/55003p-809860c.html > > Montana just put a temporary ban on the sport of snow mobile skipping after > the death of a rider. People are riding snow mobiles at high speed into > lakes to "skip" them across the water. Apparently one guy tried this and > his 500 pound snow mobile failed to skip and instead sank. > > Montana has a no wake law that appears to cover most shorelines. Snow > mobile skipping is banned in no wake zones. Furthermore they can't "skip" > near docks, ramps, fishing, or swimming areas. Or in State Parks. > Operators of "skipping" snow mobilers must be 16 or older and wear a > PFD..... > > LOL! But I'm not making this up!!!! I thought the JetSkis were bad..... > LOL! 8-) > > Later... > Dan > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 19:37:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25496 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25491 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:35:37 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05297 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.86.d8fa7cb (14377) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86.d8fa7cb.289cb973_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:35:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - single-sided-in-water-recovery To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 29 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net LOL Great Ideas. It's a lot of fun to do stupid kayak tricks, somehow they all seem to improve ones overall skill. My current favorite is to use paddle without ever lifting the paddle blade from the water. This mean that the paddle stroke is single sided, a canoe stroke really. I believe it's called a "J" stroke. Pull from just to the side of the normal catch position, pulling the blade inward towards the boat, rotate the paddle to the hip, turn the blade into a stern rudder to correct any drift, then slice the blade forward to the start position and repeat to exhaustion. It's works quite well really. Better than one would expect. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 20:44:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16423 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16418 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17544 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from preinstalledcom (ip32.pdx5.pacifier.com [207.202.211.32]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with SMTP id f743gAC13957 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00e401c11c94$fa3fb060$20d3cacf_at_preinstalledcom> From: "Harvey Golden" <qayaq_at_pacifier.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F130rvoGdKO8FNpyLAP0001190f_at_hotmail.com> <3B6B0E4E.2A6F3796_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:24:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> Re: Wierd strokes: > I got this from Nigel Foster. Paddle with two strokes on each side of > the boat (ie, right, right, left, left). Not so weird, you say? It is if > you use both blades each time. I hadn't gotten this stroke from Mr. Foster, but instead stumbled upon it after watching my father (Martial arts student/instructor for 40 years) doing Escrima fighting stick drills. The stick manouever looked like it could be turned into a paddling stroke, and so I had to give it a try. It is hardly effective, but still falls into the loose category of "Propulsion." It is a humbling test of balance, agility, humility, shame, and sobriety. Harvey Golden *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 21:15:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25157 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25120 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:11:09 -0700 (PDT) From: RBHoltKayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04355 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RBHoltKayak_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.117.2ace4c5 (3310) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <117.2ace4c5.289ccfd4_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:11:00 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Ban on SnowMobiles in no wake zones. NOT A JOKE! To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Another news source reported that the victim (of nautral selection) was not wearing a PFD. Nor did he know how to swim! Robb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 21:16:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25705 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25700 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f161.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07588 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:14:36 -0700 Received: from 63.22.116.84 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:14:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.22.116.84] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:14:36 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F161O9lTXeo6fQSgeR40000fe6f_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2001 04:14:36.0676 (UTC) FILETIME=[F909C440:01C11C9B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In less than twelve hours I have double my repertoire of weird strokes. Thank you one and all who have been so kind as to have helped me and all who are yet do so. THANK YOU! Loving Paddlewise all the more, Jim Tibensky ps The students may not feel so kindly after they they twist themselves into knots! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 21:54:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07552 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07547 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f121.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.121]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00492 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 21:51:58 -0700 Received: from 63.22.116.84 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 04:51:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.22.116.84] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Warmup Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:51:57 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F12193MgPPf3L9BGTuA0000410d_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2001 04:51:58.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[30FE7760:01C11CA1] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net There was enough enthusiasm for weird strokes that I thought I should go ahead and share the warmup I spoke of in my solicitation. The book is copyrighted but permission is granted to copy and distribute this warmup since we stole it from Foxy anyway! Let me know if it is of any use. Jim THE RICHARD FOX WARMUP or something almost like it from: A Handbook for Beginning Kayak Slalom Racers by James Tibensky and Winslow Soule, 1991 This set of moves is pretty much the warm-up that Richard Fox used a couple of years ago. You may find this to be a workout more than just a warm-up at first. These moves may seem rather difficult. Consider this: if you can't make tough moves in a warm-up in flat water, how are you ever going to do tough mmoves in a race or real whitewater? Determine what length of time you will take for each move and use it throughout. That is, if you do the first move (forward stroke) for 45 seconds, do the other moves for 45 seconds each. Here is the pattern: 1. Forward stroke 2. Reverse stroke 3. C-1 strokes, zig zag 4. Zig zag, boat on side 5. Stepping (S-turns) 6. Snaking (forward sweeps) 7. Reverse snaking 8. Crossbow C-1 strokes, zig zag 9. C-1 compound reverse strokes 10. 4 spins each way using forward and reverse sweeps 11. 4 spins each way stirring 12. 4 spins each way cross bow stirring 13. Sprint Explanations of Moves (on a river): 1 and 2. Normal forward and reverse strokes 3. C-1 stroke using right blade only. Go at 45 degree angle to shore pointing boat to right. After five strokes switch to left blade on left side. Boat will be facing 45 degrees to left at start of section. Repeat for time limit. Don't steer, just paddle straight on. 4. Foward strokes with boat tilted on edge. Start leaning to right and angled 45 dgrees to right shore. As boat angles to left shore, tilt to left side. Use hips for tilt, don't lean over the gunnel. 5. Paddle straight into current using this pattern: forward sweep on left, Duffek to right, finish Duffek with forward sweep on right, then Duffek on left finishing with left forward sweep. Viewed from above, boat looks like it is going over steps. 6. Straight ahead using only forward sweeps - left, right, left, etc. 7. Same as #6 using only reverse sweeps. 8. Same as #3 only on cross bow [left blade on right side of boat and vice versa], blade never leaves water. Feather blade to the bow after each stroke. 9. Reach back to the stern turning your head and shoulders to the rear. Pull the paddle from the stern towards the cockpit with the power face toward the bow. As the blade reaches the cockpit, turn the power face toward the stern and continue pushing the blade toward the bow. Do in one smooth motion. Then do the same stroke on the other side. 10. Turn 4 complete spins using forward sweep on one side followed by a reverse sweep on the opposite side. Then go the opposite direction 4 times. 11. Stirring the Pudding: Reach out to the side and to the bow as far as you can with your blade. Draw the blade into the bow. Then pull the blade alongside and to the stern. Then pry the blade out away from the stern with the power face out. Do as a continuous, circular motion with the blade never leaving the water. Reach out, forward and back as far as you are able, bending at the waist. The boat should pivot. Do 4 spins in each direction. 12. Same as #11 only on cross side (left blade on right side of boat). Be ready to tip over! 13. Sprint, forward strokes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 3 23:49:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13204 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13199 Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09623 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-128.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.128]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f746mmH166046 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 02:48:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6B9AC9.CC72559F_at_prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 01:48:41 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Alligator loose in Michigan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/trends/08/04/missing.alligator.focus/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 03:46:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00661 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00656 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03132 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.174] (node1feae.a2000.nl [24.132.254.174]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f74Agux27214 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 06:42:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330100b791e1976f8e_at_[24.132.254.174]> In-Reply-To: <3B6AE991.26823.1E9907E_at_localhost> References: <3B6AE991.26823.1E9907E_at_localhost> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:39:47 -0500 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Upper body strength and rescues Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 6:12 PM -0300 8/3/01, Ulli Hoeger wrote: >[SNIP] >The instructor failed to recognize and to correct #1 and #2. He also >didn't come up with an suitable alternative, like the sling rescue >which may have helped with #3 and #4. [SNIP] Speaking of slings, I would like to start carrying a sling for backup and can't for the life of me remember how long the total length of the rope should be. Of course, all my books at not here so I can't look it up. Anyone? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 06:36:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA25357 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 06:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25348 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 06:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15035 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 06:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CC328613A ([24.13.84.146]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010804133553.URIN19709.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_CC328613A> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 06:35:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c11cea$69eba360$92540d18_at_CC328613A> From: "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <002401c11c96$4ede53f0$7e5e7018_at_bridgewatersys.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Waterstick Zen paddle? Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:36:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Eddy, Does your Zen paddle have a bent shaft? And by 12 offset, do you mean 12º feathering angle? I use my paddle for touring, I have noticed more speed & manuverability, but trouble if I don't place the blade in the water at the correct angle. The blade appears something of a cross between a conventional blade and a wing, which is why I was curious. Niels > I use a Waterstick Zen (194 cm, 12 offset) for whitewater paddling, and I > like it very much. It took a few hours getting used to it, but now when I > switch to my regular paddle, it feels like it has a lot less power than the > Zen. I have always had a bit of a problem with tendons in my wrists with my > straight shaft, 90 offset paddle. So far, no problems with the Zen. > > Eddy "now and Zen" Rapid > ---- > AKA Parham Momtahan > > > > "Niels Kistrup" <nielskistrup_at_home.com> wrote in message > > Does anyone else have experience with the Waterstick Zen paddle? It's > blade > > is between a conventional flat paddle and a wing paddle. I just got one & > > have noticed some interesting differences between it and my Werner & > Boreal > > Design paddles. > > > > Niels > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 07:45:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17924 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17919 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf09bis.bellsouth.net (mail309.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.169]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26707 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.235]) by imf09bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010804144602.IXSC28196.imf09bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Alligator came in through pet flap. Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:44:43 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000d01c11cf3$ffc6bdd0$eb723dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B6B9AC9.CC72559F_at_prodigy.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net An alligator used the pet flap to settle into a house in Winterhaven Florida. The story was in this morning's Palm Beach Post. The homeowner arose to find a 3 foot gator where his dog, cookie (aptly named) usually slept. Animal control finally responded and removed the gator after a call to a local radio station. No mention of Cookie's whereabouts. The price we pay to live in Paradise! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 07:49:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18321 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18315 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail301.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27194 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.235]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010804144959.JWBO3259.imf01bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:49:59 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Alligator loose in Michigan Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:48:40 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000e01c11cf4$8cddf940$eb723dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B6B9AC9.CC72559F_at_prodigy.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm heading for Michigan on Tuesday. Is it safe? Cu Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 07:51:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19791 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19753 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf05bis.bellsouth.net (mail205.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.145]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29215 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.235]) by imf05bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010804145144.ZAQM9637.imf05bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:51:44 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Alligator loose in Michigan Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:50:25 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000f01c11cf4$cb9b8710$eb723dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B6B9AC9.CC72559F_at_prodigy.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm heading for Michigan on Tuesday. Is it safe? cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 08:44:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06841 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06836 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.141]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02473 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010804154346.TQMU18675.femail14.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 08:43:46 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c11cfc$de3b0230$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <86.d8fa7cb.289cb973_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - single-sided-in-water-recovery Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:48:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > My current favorite is to use paddle without ever lifting the paddle > blade from the water. This mean that the paddle stroke is single sided, a > canoe stroke really. I believe it's called a "J" stroke. The J stroke brings the blade out of the water. What you described is the Indian stroke. It's very useful for paddling silently, as when observing wildlife. If you rotate the blade horizontally on the recovery phase and lift upwards against the water, you get a Canadian stroke. This is one of my favorite canoe strokes as it is very powerful and uses muscles that aren't often used in the canoe. I've been toying with the idea of making a single blade paddle for my kayak as a spare and using it with a Canadian stroke. It's a stroke that just plain feels good! Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 09:50:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28249 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28214 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:50:42 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11493 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.113.2a800b3 (3940) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <113.2a800b3.289d81d7_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:50:31 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudder capsizes To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net While your on the subject I thought I might take a moment to share an incident which happened to me in which the rudder definitely contributed to a capsize. I was out at our California Channel Islands helping to land a group of paddlers. The landing is one of which local kayakers are quite familiar where the paddler must climb out of their boat from the water at the base of a ten or fifteen foot dock, and climb a steel rung ladder to the top. Then a rope is lowered and tied to the kayak in such a way that it may be pulled up to the top of the dock behind the paddler. Needless to say this landing can get a bit complicated with a large group, particularly when you add a significant ocean surge to the process. Well, I was on the water in my boat helping to organize things at the base of the dock. I had pulled my rudder up, but unbeknownst to me it had not locked in it's keeper, and had instead managed to work it's way out so it was sticking at a right angle to the boat. As the surge came in the rudder got caught in one of the rungs of a ladder behind me, so when the boat rose with the water it was slowly levered over to it's side. Before I even realized what was happening I capsized! There were a number of boats prohibiting a roll to one side, and the dock preventing rolling to the other side. Being to stubborn to wet exit I opened my eyes under water and looked around to see another ladder extending down into the water beside me. So I simply grabbed the ladder with both hands and proceeded to climb up it, hand over hand until I was once again upright. When I reached the surface I found a group of paddlers sitting in their boats staring blankly at me wondering what I was doing. Not a single one of so much as lifted a finger to lend a hand. Not that I was in any particular danger. All's well that ends well, I suppose. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 09:56:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29909 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29903 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15560 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p120.home (ppp-208-189-60-39.dialup.tulsok.swbell.net [208.189.60.39]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f74Gu0r29578 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:56:00 -0400 Received: from mike by p120.home with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15T4iV-0000UI-00 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:55:59 -0500 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:55:58 -0500 From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Wetsuits and Shark attacks Message-ID: <20010804115558.F30110_at_p120.home> Mail-Followup-To: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net>, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net References: <200105181001.DAA07471_at_ns1.intelenet.net> <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJAEEDECAA.sh_at_actglobal.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJAEEDECAA.sh_at_actglobal.net>; from sh_at_actglobal.net on Fri, May 18, 2001 at 05:32:17AM -0700 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net A lot of good humor re this thread but we should also acknowledge the facts. I'm not a diver but how long does a dive last? 1.5hrs is not a long time to go without peeing. If you want to leave a continuous scent trail for a tiger, mako or white to follow up on, fine. I would not advise it. A sharks level of excitement and aggression is going to rise exponentially as it travels along a good scent trail. Running into one of the dangerous sharks haphazardly, you turn a corner, you see him, he sees you, he sees you seeing him (not a diver... but I'd consider this last point kind of important) you likely won't fit his prey profile. But at the end of a scent trail, your back turned, ...I'd keep an eye peeled down current, after taking a leak, and save the beer drinking for later. But that's just me. I would imagine this is SOP in Australia where white sharks are plentiful. On Fri 18 May 2001, Steve Holtzman wrote: > David said: > > There was an interesting article in one of our papers a few months ago > about shark attacks. A scientist had discovered a correlation between > weeing in wetsuits and shark attacks. Apparently, according to the > scientist, the combination of urine and Neoprene is a bit of a turn on > for sharks. I think, if I remember correctly, they had interview as many > shark attack victims as they could, nearly all surfers, and found that > they had weed in their wetsuit just before they were attacked. > > I say: > > There is a problem with this type of "scientific study". If this same > scientist had interviewed all of the victims he would have also found that > 100% of them drink water. Does that mean that if you drink water you are > more susceptible to shark attacks? > > The survey was all wet. > > Steve Holtzman > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 11:40:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02010 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02004 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16400 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-265.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.23]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00116 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 10:39:10 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B6C40BB.5E1C9_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:36:43 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] weird strokes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I would add a couple weird techniqies I have used to strengthen my roll and to teach others. I developed these techniques because I have seen too many paddlers both whitewater and sea, that had a good pool roll but could not roll up on the river or sea. Most people pratice rolls by getting "set" with the paddle in position then rolling over. In real life or real sea or river conditions when people flip they wind up in all sorts of positions, none which resemble the "set" up position. Hence totally confused they flail at a couple roll attempts then give up and wet exit and lose whatever confidence they had in their rolls. The first technique I use is to paddle backwards as fast as I can then flip. This can be surprizingly disorientating.. Also sometimes your body is jerked out of position and you have to concertrate on getting your body back into position before rolling. Also if you don't have a good grip on your paddle it will get yanked out of your hand or the shaft rotated so you have to find the right blade angle to roll. the next technique is to throw the paddle a few feet into the air , catch it and immediately flip. Why? Now upside down you have to reorientate the blade angle before you roll. My technique for this is to slide my hand down the paddleshaft to the blade and by placing my palm flat against the blade I can reset my paddle angle. This by the way is and "extended roll" which gives for me better leverage for a roll. A third technique is to flip, wet exit, then reenter the boat while it is still upside down, then roll. This is tricker then it sounds believe me. My fourth technique which I have seen many others use is instead of a paddle , roll by holding a floatation divice such as a PFD or a paddle float. The only way this is going to work is if the paddler uses a good hip snap, hence it becomes a good learing technique. By the way before trying these methods you may want to get a good set of nose plugs. One advantage of these techniques is they closer simulate flips at sea (or river) and they force the paddler to think out what they need to do rather than panic and flail. Plus the longer upside down practicing the easier it is to control your fear\panic if you do flip at sea. (Word to the Wise...never paddle with someone who says they have never flipped) Bob Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 12:00:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09399 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09359 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29982 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA21071 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:00:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Upper body strength and rescues In-Reply-To: <p04330100b791e1976f8e_at_[24.132.254.174]> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.1010804145419.20891A-100000_at_sage.coe.uga.edu > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Patrick Maun wrote: > Speaking of slings, I would like to start carrying a sling for backup > and can't for the life of me remember how long the total length of > the rope should be. Of course, all my books at not here so I can't > look it up. Anyone? Jan says hers is 12' of 3/8" sinking line and Roger's is 15' of 1/2" floating webbing. Mine is 12' of 3/8" nylon, and I've decided that that is too small. After you go around a high volume boat (e.g., Chesapeake 18) and back over the paddle you've only got about a foot left of the loop. I'm going to make a new one that's about 15-16' using a prussik knot, so it's a little bit adjustable. If you use floating line, bring along a carabiner to weight it down. Steve Cramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 12:05:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11423 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11417 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11206.mail.yahoo.com (web11206.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.188]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04110 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010804190532.50720.qmail_at_web11206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.25.20] by web11206.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 12:05:32 PDT Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:05:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Fitness Training To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <200108040454.VAA07721_at_ns1.intelenet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I don't think your regimen would work too well for me. I usually don't know what I'm going to do each day until that morning. I plan on joining the Hash House Harriers however. That worldwide group does regular group runs at local chapters which terminate in a bar. You didn't mention anything about stress management which has physical ramifications. Whenever I feel stress, I have a few beers. I always feel much more relaxed after that. Anybody else got a favorite regimen? TomBrooklyn 3 Aug 2001 From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Re: [Paddlewise] Upper body strength and rescues > > My personal (fitness) program, > year around, is to ride a bike 45 minutes, lift weights > in a circuit course > 30 minutes, and do yoga 15 minutes on Tuesdays and > Fridays, and then kayak on > Sundays, paddling 10-20 miles or going kayak surfing. It > doesn't make me > competitive for racing, but it keeps me ready for just > about anything in > touring. > > Duane > Southern California > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 13:07:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00801 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00796 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10198 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([63.195.120.186]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GHK000QC7VIG2_at_mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:06:52 -0700 From: Dave Flory <daflory_at_pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fitness Training In-reply-to: <20010804190532.50720.qmail_at_web11206.mail.yahoo.com> To: PaddleWise Mailing list <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-id: <20010804200652.5442_at_mail.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 3.0.8 <http://www.ctmdev.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <20010804190532.50720.qmail_at_web11206.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net For people like me who are 'dirt' lazy (or are very busy) and who still want to develop/maintain good strength I strongly recommend the Super- Slow resistance exercise techniques described at http://www.superslow.com and htt://www.ultimate-exercise.com. It'll take some time to wade through but once you get it it really, actually, does work. I've used it for quite a while, two years, and I'm 4 times as strong as I was pre- training, twice as strong as most of the inhabitants of my gym who are less than half my current age (63). I only do weight work at an interval of between once a week and once every two weeks, depending on whether I get in a good paddle or two in between. A weight workout takes about 20- 25 minutes. I fully expect to be carrying my kayak around when I'm in my 80's or more. (Barring illness or injury.) This exercise protocol runs counter to the generally accepted "wisdom" (gym mythology) of fitness, but it _is_ real, it works!! The second site I mentioned above explains some of the why it works and Dr. McGuff's book explains it even better. If you have any questions/comments you probably ought to send them to me off list as this is not very specifically kayaking related. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 13:55:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16646 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16640 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f7.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09684 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:54:38 -0700 Received: from 63.57.162.156 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:54:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.57.162.156] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - single-sided-in-water-recovery Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:54:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F78ienX689Vcs86CurX0001207d_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2001 20:54:38.0730 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD0C9EA0:01C11D27] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I use a canoe paddle as my spare on many trips and train with it every paddling session at home - one section of the four-part session is slalom gates with a canoe paddle. One run only on the left, another only on the right. Uses different muscles and requires good balance. Anyway, the reason I'm mentioning this is that I find that the paddle needs to be so short as to look like it was made for a young child. Anyone considering buying a single blade for a kayak might want to measure the distance from the top of their head or so to the water and start from there as a good shaft length. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 14:38:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29096 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29091 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11203.mail.yahoo.com (web11203.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.185]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05175 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010804213758.11120.qmail_at_web11203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.25.20] by web11203.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:37:58 PDT Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Caulking Bulkheads To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Use a spatula especially made for tool caulking or make one yourself from thin sheet metal and a pair of snips. As I think was previously mentioned by someone, all caulk joints, fillet or butt, should be tooled to smooth the surface and ensure good adhesion. I use caulking in my line of work which is roofing and waterproofing. It is > > From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> > Subject:Best sealer for bulkheads > > > From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> > > > A trick I was taught, which works better with some > caulks and sealants than > > others, is to wet your finger and use it to smooth the > fillet. The thin > > film of > > water prevents the goop from sticking to your finger > and you get a nice > > smooth surface.. > > Good for silicones, latex caulks and some polyurethanes > like > Polyseamseal. Bad for marine sealants like Sikaflex and > 5200, which will > stick to your skin and be difficult to remove. > > - -- mike > - Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 14:57:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05183 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05177 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yogi.ida.net (relay2.ida.net [204.228.203.94]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17795 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.141.181.83] by yogi.gemstate.net (NTMail 6.03.0009/NU4794.00.803603cf) with ESMTP id bsbfoaaa for PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:59:35 -0600 Message-ID: <003a01c11d30$723b2900$53b58dd0_at_dell> From: "Looze, John & Donna" <looze_at_gemstate.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - Shaft Length Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:57:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net <might want to measure the distance from the top of their head or so to the water and start from there as a good [canoe paddle] shaft length.> Consider a shaft length equal to the distance from the top of your shoulder to the water. That way you do not need your hand over your head (tiring), nor to submerge the shaft, which has no power. A short shaft also tends to have you choke up (hands closer together) on your paddle, which gives more power. A shorter paddle is also easier to manage. These are just my thoughts, and there are lots of theories on what is best. JKL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 4 19:36:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00214 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00206 Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f237.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.237]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12055 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:36:06 -0700 Received: from 63.61.122.164 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 02:36:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.61.122.164] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:36:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F237hrXtH1oS5CIMVSo000118f3_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2001 02:36:06.0203 (UTC) FILETIME=[6088E8B0:01C11D57] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John and Donna said: Consider a shaft length equal to the distance from the top of your shoulder to the water. That way you do not need your hand over your head (tiring), nor to submerge the shaft, which has no power. A short shaft also tends to have you choke up (hands closer together) on your paddle, which gives more power. A shorter paddle is also easier to manage. My apologies if I set anyone wrong. I realize that I bend over a whole lot when I paddle a canoe stroke in a kayak and the length I suggested would be quite long. My paddle, with blade, comes up to my waist when I'm standing. [Although I feel I get more power with my hands well apart on the short paddle] Thanks John and Donna! Jim _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 00:25:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02006 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01999 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06721 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f757Olp08772 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:24:47 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02522 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28325 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29372 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-479.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.237]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA07701 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:12:23 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <004d01c11d7e$4c0eaec0$14d3150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] weird strokes Alaskan style Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:14:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net You folks down in the lower 48 might not know it but us paddlers in Alaska have us some special paddle strokes. First warming up before paddling is important so we invented the ...BUTT SLAP. It is real simply, first you set your boat a drift in the water. Then you find a sleeping bear , sneak up to him and slap him on the butt! Not only does the running and screaming warm you up but running across the top of the water to get to your boat really pleases the tourists. Now for the paddle strokes.... THE CHOP-This stroke is done by holding both hands together on the paddle shaft at the base of the blade. The paddle is lifted over head and brought down sharply on the bow. This stroke is used to chop the ice that builds up on the front of our boats in winter. THE LANCE A LOT. On this paddle stroke the paddle is held in the middle by one hand and the arm is extended back as far as pain will allow. The arm is brought forward quickly , with the hand letting go at the precise moment. This stroke is used to discourage teenagers on jet skis from getting too close. Also used for snow mobiles skipping across the water. THE WIND VANE- here the paddle is held by the tip of the blade and extended as far up as the paddlers can reach. The top blade then acts as a wind vane to show the paddler which direction the wind is coming from. Since we don’t have many roosters up here, paddlers sometimes smear herring guts on the top blade to attract a seagull to stand on the tip of paddle. THE JAB - this paddle stroke is done holding the paddle over head with both hands and frantically jabbing at the back deck. This is used to convince sealions to hitch a ride somewhere else! THE TOSS AND HUG- This takes two steps. The first step is to throw the paddle as far from the boat as possible(some use two hands while others use one. Screaming also helps) The next step is to wrap your arms around the whale tail that has lifted you out of the water and is about to play the "throw the noisy human for distance". OUR FATHER is a variation of the above. The paddle is thrown and the hands are placed together and the appropriate prayer is said. This is best done when one looks up to see the whale tail about to slap down on you. THE JONAH BRACE-This is used to prevent being swallowed by the whale. Simply remain calm and place the paddle gently between the open jaws to prevent them from closing. Please be gentle with the whale, we need to protect them from harm. Warning lately a few graphite shafts have snapped and research is showing that feather paddles work better than non feather for this stroke. THE BIG WIND STROKE- This stroke is best done when the wind is blowing 40 mph or more. Although it appears the kayaker is trying to paddle forward, an observer from the rescue ship will swear the kayaker is going backwards. THE RIGHT OF WAY- this is actually done without a paddle. The kayaker drops the paddle and waves frantically with his or her arms. This is to tell the oncoming cruise ship that the kayak has the right of way. This stroke is often accompanied with shriek and curses. THE CHATTERING- Done in the dead of winter on the frozen ice. Many an Alaskan sea-kayaker has to been known to catch cabin fever and pull their boat out on to the ice and sit there for hours hallucinating paddling at sea on a warm summers day ...in Florida! The term comes from the sound of the paddlers teeth chattering. THE BACKYARD TSUNAMI- This is done when the coast guard calls out a Tsunami warning. The true Alaskan sea kayaker runs out to their back yard, jumps in their kayak and gets set for the surf. Witnesses note the broad smile on the kayakers face. Alas if the wave doesn’t come the kayaker may be found down at the local bar crying in his or her beer lamenting about the one that got away. THE EXXON VALDEZ- Viewed from a distance this stroke looks like a giant ball of oil. On coming closer one can see the paddle blades sticking out of the glop and hear the distinctive sound of cursing. THE ONLY IN ALASKA -This stroke is done one way for men and another way for women. The women hold the paddle over head with their arms spread a little wider than the shoulders. The men on the other hand place the paddle shaft on the deck of the boat and proceeds to bang his head on it repeatedly. this stoke was first observed several years ago when Libby Reynolds and Susan Butcher began beating the men and winning the Ididarod sled dog race. (Alaska , where men are men and women win the Ididarod.) Have fun Bob Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 06:08:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA23901 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23896 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onlink6.onlink.net (onlink6.onlink.net [206.108.253.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29633 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jwinters (nrba2-3.onlink.net [209.105.208.203]) by onlink6.onlink.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f75D7rX147252 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:07:53 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c11db0$5c6a3b40$d299fea9_at_jwinters> From: "John Winters" <jwinters_at_onlink.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Broaching Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:12:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt has argued forcefully for his point and we should pay attention to what he has to say. Unfortunately we seem to have differences in what we have experienced or, at least, what we perceived. Even Nick, who agrees that rudders can create a capsizing moment thinks the effect would not amount to much. So we have a difference of opinion even among those who agree. The problem we have stems from not having any way (at least no one has come forth with a practical test method yet) that we can to objectively test the theory. One of the advantages of my membership in the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers includes access to the many papers written on hydrodynamics and related fields so I will search for a research paper that speaks specifically on this aspect of seakeeping. In the meantime, I will attempt to replicate Matt's (and Kevin's) experiences on my vacation. I hope the type of boat used does not cause problems. I won't have much choice as I will have to borrow a boat since mine has no rudder or skeg. Unfortunately anything I do will still have the taint of subjective opinion. Kevin wrote: that those who use rudders will "burn in Hell." Perhaps, but better to burn in Hell than suffer the interminable, sanctimonious, preaching of self righteous anti-rudder paddlers. :-) Cheers, John Winters *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 06:49:21 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07036 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07031 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net (mail2.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.201]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23507 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 06:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d91.as0.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.166.92]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f75DnJj90216; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010805095803.467f0530_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:58:03 To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Alligator loose in Michigan In-Reply-To: <000f01c11cf4$cb9b8710$eb723dd0_at_bdenton> References: <3B6B9AC9.CC72559F_at_prodigy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 10:50 AM 8/4/01 -0400, Bob Denton wrote: >I'm heading for Michigan on Tuesday. Is it safe? Should be, but be careful. There was another one reported loose in the Ottawa River just north of Toledo earlier this year. The local TV station did a segment on it. But, it's been warm and humid enough for alligators to like it just fine up here. Florida weather, actually. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 08:33:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12215 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12201 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:32:48 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27630 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.10f.3397a40 (25105) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <10f.3397a40.289ec114_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:32:36 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] factors of the boat To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Though not a new subject from me, I'm still trying to figure out why my boat is so hard to roll. What are the factors besides a low back deck to lean on and the width of the boat come into play? How much does the seat height or weight distribution have an effect? What other factors come into play. I've made some changes to my boat and I am trying to figure out which ones may have added to the difficulties I'm having. I am wondering about the boat, not the paddler. I think I've gotten just about every comment, silly or not, about techniques of rolling. That is fun but I'm really interested in the issues of the boat. The one good thing about learning to roll this boat is that, it is so easy to roll other boats I've tried. <G> Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 09:19:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25889 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25882 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22548 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f75GJ1p09839 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:19:01 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02689 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15503 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03042 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p120.home (ppp-208-189-58-107.dialup.tulsok.swbell.net [208.189.58.107]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f75FgSr257470 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:42:29 -0400 Received: from mike by p120.home with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15TQ2t-00054p-00 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:42:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:42:27 -0500 From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Caulking Bulkheads Message-ID: <20010805104226.G30110_at_p120.home> Mail-Followup-To: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net>, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net References: <20010804213758.11120.qmail_at_web11203.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010804213758.11120.qmail_at_web11203.mail.yahoo.com>; from tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com on Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 02:37:58PM -0700 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It's better to tool with the caulking tube tip. When you see somebody that's good with caulk they'll never use their finger. But if the bead is rounded and not tooled in, you could have air gaps or extremely thin lines of adhesion (is that a word?). So if you get that round bead use your finger. Cutting the tube off square instead of at an angle will allow for tooling with the tube held more out away from the work area. This allows for getting into corners better and if you rotate the caulk gun you don't change the angle of your tooling tip. I've watched glazers and they always cut 'em square. Carpenters often cut at an angle. So don't do it like a wood butcher, do it like the glazers do. That's what I find helps the most. When considering the restricted area of the kayak hull it could be of great help to not have that long metal bar sticking out of the back of the gun. If it was in the way I'd cut it in half. This gun would only be good for the first half of the tube, but caulk guns are only a few bucks. IF this were necessary I'd also put it in a vise and rebend the end, to avoid an eye hazard. mike On Sat 04 Aug 2001, Tom wrote: > Use a spatula especially made for tool caulking or make one > yourself from thin sheet metal and a pair of snips. As I > think was previously mentioned by someone, all caulk > joints, fillet or butt, should be tooled to smooth the > surface and ensure good adhesion. I use caulking in my > line of work which is roofing and waterproofing. It is > > > > > > From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> > > Subject:Best sealer for bulkheads > > > > > From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> > > > > > A trick I was taught, which works better with some > > caulks and sealants than > > > others, is to wet your finger and use it to smooth the > > fillet. The thin > > > film of > > > water prevents the goop from sticking to your finger > > and you get a nice > > > smooth surface.. > > > > Good for silicones, latex caulks and some polyurethanes > > like > > Polyseamseal. Bad for marine sealants like Sikaflex and > > 5200, which will > > stick to your skin and be difficult to remove. > > > > - -- mike -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 10:42:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24279 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24274 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13767 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 10:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (dialups-579.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.209.97]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09693 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:42:19 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <3B6D84E6.3FEB0A6A_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:39:50 -0800 From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <meierlk_at_mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] factors of the boat References: <10f.3397a40.289ec114_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Joan, Without out seeing you in the boat attempting to roll it, I doubt any of us could come up with a solution. Or if we did guess it could be the wrong solution causing you more frustration. My guess is something about the shape of the boat doesn't allow you to have the right body position, or technique to roll. Especially since you can roll other boats. You need to get with someone who has taught rolls a lot and have them watch you. Bob Alaska JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > Though not a new subject from me, I'm still trying to figure out why my boat > is so hard to roll. What are the factors besides a low back deck to lean on > and the width of the boat come into play? How much does the seat height or > weight distribution have an effect? What other factors come into play. I've > made some changes to my boat and I am trying to figure out which ones may > have added to the difficulties I'm having. > I am wondering about the boat, not the paddler. I think I've gotten just > about every comment, silly or not, about techniques of rolling. That is fun > but I'm really interested in the issues of the boat. > The one good thing about learning to roll this boat is that, it is so > easy to roll other boats I've tried. <G> > > Joan > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 16:18:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08978 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08970 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Strosaker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08719 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strosaker_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.a9.19486e91 (2613) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <a9.19486e91.289f2dfb_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:17:15 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] factors of the boat To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10513 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/5/01 8:33:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JSpinner_at_aol.com writes: > I'm still trying to figure out why my boat > Joan, What is the make and model of your kayak, and if I make ask, your height and weight? Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 5 19:33:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16357 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16351 Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.144]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07365 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spamcop.net ([24.22.64.60]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010806023307.QVW8659.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_spamcop.net> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:33:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3B6E0297.63EF1AD6_at_spamcop.net> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:36:07 -0400 From: Michael Edelman <mje_at_spamcop.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Michigan Alligators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: "Bob Denton" > > I'm heading for Michigan on Tuesday. Is it safe? I just returned from a leisurely paddle up and down a long stretch of the Huron, and didn't see any alligators. But I *did* see a carp that looked big enough to swallow a kayak. Consider yourself warned. -- mike ------------------------- Michael Edelman mje_at_spamcop.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org http://www.findascope.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 02:00:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23296 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23291 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:58:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub1.abdn.ac.uk (mailhub1.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.7.28]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24775 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 01:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cjc.cc.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.216.128] helo=cjc) by mailhub1.abdn.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 15TgD6-0000j3-00 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:58:04 +0100 From: "Colin Calder" <c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:56:18 +0100 Message-ID: <NCBBLHOPAAKPBKNGIEHBKEKFCNAA.c.j.calder_at_abdn.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Scanner: exiscan *15TgD6-0000j3-00*3pMlnROB2t.* Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:53:01 -0500 > From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> > Subject: > > I am putting together a proposed class for a sea kayak symposium > next year. > The goal of the workshop will be to develop a feel for the kayak and > increase balance skills. My thought is that I will introduce students to > > Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would > be willing > to share and let me use in the class? If you give me anything and would > like something in return, I'll send you a copy of the Fox Jim, You could try this as a warm up exercise, pretty simple but promotes balance, flexibility, and paddle awareness: Rotate torso 90 degrees and place paddle parallel to the kayak (as for stern rudder). Slice the rear blade deep into the water from stern to exit towards the bow as quickly as possible, ideally without looking at the blade or with eyes closed. Slice it back again and repeat a few times on both sides. If the blade isn't facing 90 degrees to the boat the slice will tend to pull the student in, and this exercise quickly develops a feel for the angle of attack of the blade. HTH Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 02:23:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA02805 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 02:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02799 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 02:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11547 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 02:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-24.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.24]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f769N5R171100 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 05:23:06 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6E61F7.1C7E98CF_at_prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 04:23:03 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Michigan Alligators References: <3B6E0297.63EF1AD6_at_spamcop.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bob Denton wrote: > > I'm heading for Michigan on Tuesday. Is it safe? I imagine the black bears have eaten him by now. -Bob Matter Hammond, Indiana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 03:02:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA14473 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14411 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02100 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <Q2QDZLGS>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:00:49 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A021_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: "paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:01:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Some "weird tricks": - Raft up two kayaks and switch boats. One kayakker sits on the back deck of a boat, the second kayakker moves from cockpit to cockpit, then the first kayakker gets into the empty cockpit. - Paddle and steer a swamped boat. - Paddle while sitting on the back deck. Quite easy when you keep your feet in the water, more difficult with your feet in the cockpit. - Exit a boat, on the water, without tipping it over. First sit on the back deck with your feet in the water, then move one leg over the deck so you lay on your belly on the deck, then carefully slide into the water. Reverse the movement to re-enter the kayak. The moment you sit on the back deck and move your feet into or out of the cockpit is the critical stage. You can use a paddle as support: Position it behind you, like you would do when entering a kayak on a beach, but since there is no beach to support you, rest the blade on the surface of the water, or just under the surface. It is tricky, but it can be done. - Paddle a kayak like you would paddle a C1, by paddling and steering on one side only. If this is too easy, then sit like you would in a C1: On your knees. Best way to do this is to sit backwards in your kayak, with your bottom on the fordeck and your knees on the seat. - Pass under a low bridge (rope, bar, paddle) by leaning forward in the boat, leaning backward or leaning sideways. - Paddle with someone sitting on the back deck. A small child without any feel of balance serves best. - Try to get something from the hatch while on the water. Raft up or use a paddlefloat if needed. - Take off your sprayskirt while sitting in the boat. - Adjust footrest while on the water. - Perform a seal-start. - Pass around a ball, by throwing it in the water close to the next person. Make sure he has to move to retrieve it: Forward, backwards or sideways. Enjoy the class: Fooling around in boats is a great way to practice and a lot of fun. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 06:05:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16933 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16928 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.xs4all.nl (smtp1.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23672 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [194.109.168.12] (s340-modem2060.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.168.12]) by smtp1.xs4all.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25832 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:03:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <v01550100b7944e115a20_at_[194.109.171.221]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:04:04 +0100 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: dbarends_at_xs4all.nl (Dirk Barends) Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - single-sided-in-water-recovery Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >The J stroke brings the blade out of the water. What you described is the >Indian stroke. It's very useful for paddling silently, as when observing >wildlife. Wonder if this so, because I find the paddle is still very audible with this technique. Personally I think that it is the fact that the blade stays underwater that helps in not getting easily noticed when observing wildlife, since the first thing you mostly see from paddlers is their paddleblade? Dirk Barends *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 06:59:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03910 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03899 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26787 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id GAA13200 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010806095534.017e8410_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:59:52 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes In-Reply-To: <3B6B0E4E.2A6F3796_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> References: <F130rvoGdKO8FNpyLAP0001190f_at_hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >James Tibensky wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any favorite weird kayak tricks that you would be willing > > to share and let me use in the class? Try the "Assistant Trip Leader Brace". That's where, rounding a bend in a river with a significant current, the current tries to pry you out into the main channel. The assistant trip leader shouts "Brace! Brace!" but has his kayak parked _exactly_ where your paddle needs to be to brace. You get the idea. :-) -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 08:13:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29628 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29622 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16317 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76FDOp12014 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:13:24 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03090 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23260 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11606.mail.yahoo.com (web11606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.58]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04976 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010806145758.97152.qmail_at_web11606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.189.134.82] by web11606.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:57:58 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Gilman <hudsonsb_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Oil Canning of Plastic Hull To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi All- I have a few questions about a friend's boat. He has a P&H Capella, rotomolded plastic. It was transported hull-down on a hot day and showed some deformations of the hull due to the plastic bending on the rack supports. The rack was designed to transport the boat on it's side, rather than on it's keel, so it lacked saddles. Instead of using the design intent of the rack to carry the boat, he insisted that it be carried on its keel. Would the oil-canning have been prevented by transporting it in it's side? That is, would this method of transport be safer and more effective in preventing any damage? Also, is the damage permanent or temporary? I had a Necky that would oil-can, but it popped out when the boat was removed from the rack. I remember hearing that roto molded plastic has a memory, and will return to it's original shape. This boat when purchased had a noticiable deformation of the bow, with it pointing to the left an inch or 2. Has anyone experience with the Capella? Is it prone to damage? Thanks in advance for any advice- Jack Gilman Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club ===== * Check out the Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club online at www.yprc.org. ---------------------------------------------- See you on the river! Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 08:28:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02929 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02922 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com (imo-m05.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24644 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.20.1a4b92c2 (3968) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20.1a4b92c2.28a01125_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:26:29 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bahamas Shark Attack To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Wow! This is really a bumper year for shark attacks. Long Island couple celebrating 10th anniversary...hubby goes for a swim.."just off the beach" when something grabbged his leg and started pulling him down. He kept punching and punching and was able to free himself and swim to shore. He collapsed but wrote his room number in the sand. He was transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami. His leg was amputated just above the knee. This was on the front page of today's (August 6, 2001) Miami Herald. not sure if you can locate if at www.herald.com sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 11:05:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25581 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25576 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10404 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76I3Gp12264 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:03:16 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03212 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25407 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09131 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76I1Yp12253 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:01:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03200 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:09:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108061809.LAA03200_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bahamas Shark Attack X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Wow! This is really a bumper year for shark attacks. Florida is usually only second to California across the US in drownings (hundreds reported annually for Florida as well as other states) and leads the nation in the number of boating accidents (1,251 in 1999). In New York city alone, there are about 1,500 humans bitten by other *humans* in *one* year. So, what is a "bumper" year for shark attacks? Half-dozen more reports this year over last year? Two? Ten? There were 90 alleged incidents of shark attacks last year... worldwide... with 79 of these incidents representing confirmed cases. None of these shark attacks on humans (or those reported so far this year, for that matter) have been paddling related so these reports are not much more than sensationalism. There are enough "real" hazards in kayaking. Please give it a rest. For those that would like to put shark attacks into true perspective, see http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Sharks/ISAF/ISAF.htm Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 11:08:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26084 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26076 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13256 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76I71p12278 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:07:01 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03226 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06770 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com (imail_at_femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02460 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010806170956.JTKK3475.femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:09:56 -0700 Message-ID: <004101c11e9b$3df0f410$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <v01550100b7944e115a20_at_[194.109.171.221]> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Weird Strokes - single-sided-in-water-recovery Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:14:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Dirk Barends" <dbarends_at_xs4all.nl> > >The J stroke brings the blade out of the water. What you described is the > >Indian stroke. It's very useful for paddling silently, as when observing > >wildlife. > > Wonder if this so, because I find the paddle is still very audible with this technique. It's primarily useful when paddling slowly. The sound changes from a "splash, splash" of a blade lifted and dropped into the water to a "ripple, ripple" of a blade cutting through the water. The former is not a natural sound in a lake, while the latter is. Or so it has been explained to me. All I can say is it works when paddling beside loons (a notably shy bird) at twilight. > Personally I think that it is the fact that the blade stays underwater > that helps in not getting easily noticed when observing wildlife, > since the first thing you mostly see from paddlers is their paddleblade? This is probably a significant factor with some creatures. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 11:30:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03082 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03034 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27666 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76ITap12327 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:36 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03268 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01955 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22641 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76ILKp12312 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:21:20 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03246 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:29:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108061829.LAA03246_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bahamas Shark Attack X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Florida is usually only second to California across the US in > drownings (hundreds reported annually for Florida as well as other > states) and leads the nation in the number of boating accidents > (1,251 in 1999). That should read Florida leads the nation in the number of boating accidents with Florida alone chalking up around 1,200 boating accidents *each* year for the past several years. Sorry that wasn't more clear. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 13:04:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04689 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04684 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02256 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76K3Ep12480 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:03:14 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03307 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03226 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00381 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16038 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:55:47 -0400 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there In-Reply-To: <200108061809.LAA03200_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I've been on quite a few full moon paddles over the past few years and we've never had any problems with other boat traffic until last weekend. There were seven of us out in touring boats, all with a few years experience except one. Two of the people didn't bring a light but there were five of us wearing LED head lamps. We stayed together in a fairly tight group. The lake that we were on was fairly small with cottages along the shoreline. After the moon came up we were spread out such that all the boats were in about a 100' radius and the two people without headlamps were told to stay close to someone that had a lamp. A couple of people noticed a pontoon boat several hundred feet away slowly cruising toward us. Several people faced toward the boat and shook their heads so that the headlamps would move. When the boat got within a couple hundred feet and it looked it wasn't changing course there were two boats directly in it's path, both of which had paddlers with lamps. I blew my storm whistle once and the boat didn't change course. Then everyone started yelling, and I blew the whistle twice, and we heard someone on the boat say. "Stop, there are kayakers out there". They stopped about 30' away from two of the boats. The driver tried to chastise us by asking "do you all have lights....that boat over there doesn't have a light". However, the two boats that he almost ran over *both* had lights and several others were pointing the lights right at them. They didn't stop until they actually heard the whistle and the yelling so we guess that they probably just had the boat on "autopilot" and were not even watching ahead for other traffic. There were two other boats on the water that we saw and they noticed us right away when they got in the vicinity. Lesson learned: Even having lights at night isn't going to make you safe if the operator of a boat isn't watching where they're going. Carry a whistle (a loud one) if you paddle at night. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 13:26:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11294 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11288 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17514 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76KPdp12516 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:25:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03332 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08349 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12341 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Renabie108.tbaytel.net [207.164.213.155]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f76KHe3158190 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:17:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6EFA99.9666D95A_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 16:14:19 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bahamas Shark Attack References: <200108061809.LAA03200_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie Fenton wrote: > In New York city alone, there are about 1,500 humans bitten by other > *humans* in *one* year. I'm going to have to add this to my list of why people should be vegetarians. Cheers, Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 13:42:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17369 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17357 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28513 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76Kg3p12554 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:42:03 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03360 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14260 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21861 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f76KX9p12530 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:33:09 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03343 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108062041.NAA03343_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bahamas Shark Attack X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> > > In New York city alone, there are about 1,500 humans bitten by other > > *humans* in *one* year. > > I'm going to have to add this to my list of why people should be vegetarians. > > Cheers, > Richard Culpeper This could also be considered a benefit of paddling alone.... at least while paddling in New York City (or including a garlic pocket on your pfd :-) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 18:57:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28533 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28526 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26642 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f771tpp12920 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:55:51 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03601 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28266 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.147]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26316 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010807015422.YHHC9561.femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:54:22 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c11ee4$81724150$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:58:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> > Lesson learned: Even having lights at night isn't going to make you safe > if the operator of a boat isn't watching where they're going. Carry a > whistle (a loud one) if you paddle at night. Yesterday I was nearly overrun by a sailboat (or would have been if I hadn't been paying attention to what was behind me) as everyone on board was looking through their binoculars at a not-to-distant nude beach. John's words apply equally by day. There's a lot of idiots out there - don't be one of them. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 19:32:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11348 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11343 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18138 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f772Vbp12964 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:31:37 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03648 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08157 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13618 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-64.152.170.218.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.152.170.218]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12763; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01c11ee8$46071600$daaa9840_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com>, "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> <000b01c11ee4$81724150$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:25:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there > From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> > > > > Lesson learned: Even having lights at night isn't going to make you safe > > if the operator of a boat isn't watching where they're going. Carry a > > whistle (a loud one) if you paddle at night. > > Yesterday I was nearly overrun by a sailboat (or would have been if I > hadn't been paying attention to what was behind me) as everyone > on board was looking through their binoculars at a not-to-distant > nude beach. > Years ago it was tricky paddling on the Hudson off of Greenwich Village. Gays would regularly nude sunbathe on the rotting piers. Motor boaters from New Jersey and Long Island would come roaring along close to the piers to gawk and not looking where they were going. You learned to paddle real carefully as you came in the vicinity of the river end of any of those piers. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 20:13:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23731 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23725 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14716 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f773Cnp13011 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:12:49 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03671 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21224 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.skyweb.net (pluto.skyweb.net [205.216.244.31]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10090 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skyweb.net (14-092.068.popsite.net [64.24.90.92]) by pluto.skyweb.net (8.11.5/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7737gK37632; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:07:42 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from peter_at_skyweb.net) Message-ID: <3B6F5A1A.A9B23A18_at_skyweb.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:01:46 -0400 From: Peter Cattaneo <peter_at_skyweb.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> CC: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> <000b01c11ee4$81724150$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Makes a strong case for paddling naked...... Michael Daly wrote: > From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> > > > Lesson learned: Even having lights at night isn't going to make you safe > > if the operator of a boat isn't watching where they're going. Carry a > > whistle (a loud one) if you paddle at night. > > Yesterday I was nearly overrun by a sailboat (or would have been if I > hadn't been paying attention to what was behind me) as everyone > on board was looking through their binoculars at a not-to-distant > nude beach. > > John's words apply equally by day. There's a lot of idiots out there - > don't be one of them. > > Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 21:14:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12218 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12213 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21274 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f774CTp13101 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:12:29 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03719 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06677 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sm14.texas.rr.com (sm14.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10930 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from swbell.net (cs666878-203.austin.rr.com [66.68.78.203]) by sm14.texas.rr.com (8.12.0.Beta16/8.12.0.Beta16) with ESMTP id f7744dXD008005 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:04:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3B6F6885.AEC0C024_at_swbell.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:03:17 -0500 From: Rob Dee <plz_at_swbell.net> Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-SBI-NC472 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] moon light paddle perils extend to daylight hours Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Michael Daly wrote: Yesterday I was nearly overrun by a sailboat (or would have been if I hadn't been paying attention to what was behind me) as everyone on board was looking through their binoculars at a not-to-distant nude beach. Ralph Diaz added: Years ago it was tricky paddling on the Hudson off of Greenwich Village. Gays would regularly nude sunbathe on the rotting piers. Motor boaters from New Jersey and Long Island would come roaring along close to the piers to gawk and not looking where they were going. You learned to paddle real carefully as you came in the vicinity of the river end of any of those piers. Rob Dee dips his oar into the discussion: Ditto... Hippie Hollow on Lake Travis, just west of Austin Texas...It is a really nice paddle from Windy Point to HH, but you have to keep a sharp eye out for the power boat pervs with their binoculars and cameras. Not to mention the infantile PWC morons that act like they have never seen a "nekkid" person before. They are so annoying that the occasional sunbather stands up and shows them that the "moon" can indeed shine in the middle of the day. Happy summer to all, Rob Dee Austin, Texas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 21:15:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12389 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12384 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22803 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f774Dcp13112 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:13:38 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03727 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11830; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19765; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f774BFp13087; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:11:16 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03708; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108070419.VAA03708_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Cc: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Peter Cattaneo <peter_at_skyweb.net> > > Makes a strong case for paddling naked...... Paddling with a dog on deck works pretty good :-) I have never been able to figure out why boaters never miss a 16 lb westie when she's with me but can't seem to see me when Mollie isn't on board. Was watching Cabeza de Vaca (Mexican production) and the natives were paddling with a very large alligator head stuck on the bow of the canoe as a bow ornament, mouth gapping wide open exposing a jaw full of teeth. Hard to miss that, too. Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ _:""", )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ _/'`/(|)"~--~~--'_at_ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) _/'`'- ,~v~V~~v~V \----+-------+-------'---`-----\---/'`-',_,, '~^~^~^~^; ~~~~~~~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~"'~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 21:27:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15644 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15639 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29592 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f774PRp13135 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:25:27 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03749 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12787 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23522 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fet.mindspring.com (user-2inithh.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.118.49]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02879; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010806210858.009fdc30_at_pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: cakayak_at_pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 21:16:28 -0700 To: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: F Thomas - CaKayak <cakayak_at_mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell . edu> References: <200108061809.LAA03200_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Watch out for a loose boats on the loose alone! My wife (JoAnn) and I were paddling in Newport Harbor one "New Moon" night and as we crossed from West to East I noticed a sail boat closing quickly on the port side. JoAnn was clear of it, but I wasn't so sure about me. It had no lights and I noticed that it had no one on board. Sails were up and it was going along fine by itself. Just after it passed us the sail swung around into the wind and the boat stalled. We then heard someone screaming: "Help, I've lost my sail boat!" Of course he was on shore at his yacht club. So, off I went and grabbed the bow of the boat and latched onto it with my tow rope. I pulled it back to the dock for the guy tacking back and forth into the light wind. He was very happy and I was amused at how this could have happened. Does one normally dock with the mail sail full up? Lights or no lights, one has to be watchful! Fred California Kayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 22:28:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03911 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03906 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08308 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f775SLp13269 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:28:21 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03794 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27960 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horus.its.uow.edu.au (horus.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25434 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicentre28.uow.edu.au (unicentre28.uow.edu.au [130.130.132.58]) by horus.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25782 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:09:50 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20010807150315.006fa824_at_pop.uow.edu.au> X-Sender: ratten_at_pop.uow.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:03:15 +1000 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ill Met by Moonlight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We have similar problems here in Australia. Kayakers are getting run over in droves at night on Sydney Harbor especially around certain beaches. This is because the sun here is so strong during the day, most folks moonbathe. At times of the full moon, our nude beaches are packed and of course this makes them a prime target for tourist boats. You can imagine the chaos on the water for us poor law abiding seakayakers. Jet skis were of course a particular menace, until they were banned. PeterR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 6 22:53:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12644 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12639 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26511 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f775rWp13323 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:53:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA03823 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09596 Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAB20306 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Renabie77.tbaytel.net [207.164.213.136]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f775hk367262 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3B6F7F7F.E2AC89F7_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 01:41:20 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> <000b01c11ee4$81724150$c4bf7018_at_meatball> <001b01c11ee8$46071600$daaa9840_at_rdiaz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net As much as I applaud nudism, I have to wonder about men being naked in the naked city of 1,500 human bites per year. Youch! ralph diaz wrote: > Years ago it was tricky paddling on the Hudson off of Greenwich Village. > Gays would regularly nude sunbathe on the rotting piers. Motor boaters from > New Jersey and Long Island would come roaring along close to the piers to > gawk and not looking where they were going. You learned to paddle real > carefully as you came in the vicinity of the river end of any of those > piers. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 05:45:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17518 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17513 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17007 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77CjBp14219 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:12 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03960 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20442 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f65.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19873 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:14:33 -0700 Received: from 207.171.147.83 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:14:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [207.171.147.83] From: "Paul Raymond" <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com> To: cakayak_at_mindspring.com, jaf30_at_cornell.edu, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:14:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F65QYx3G5aYY61LEdyt0000085d_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Aug 2001 11:14:33.0989 (UTC) FILETIME=[230BDB50:01C11F32] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Small sailboat sailors will usually leave and return with sails full up, and sometimes if going back out will leave them docked, but pointing into the wind, to depower the sail, if the wind isn't too strong. I took a sailing class, and they left the sails up on the small Laser sailboats one day in preparation for a class. They were just left pulled up on the beach when one decided to go off by itself. Someone jumped into a rental sit-on-top kayak and went out to retreive. It went along pretty well all by itself. Fortunately the winds were very light. As a safety precaution in case one falls overboard, most sailboats are designed to swing about and point into the wind and come to a stop. Not all though, and some not that quickly. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 05:45:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17529 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17522 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17035 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77Cjip14230 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:45:44 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA03967 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 05:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21451 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21349 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-63.210.211.94.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [63.210.211.94]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA20850; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002b01c11f33$5ce21c80$5ed3d23f_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>, "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <5.0.1.4.2.20010806142410.02a5cec0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> <000b01c11ee4$81724150$c4bf7018_at_meatball> <001b01c11ee8$46071600$daaa9840_at_rdiaz> <3B6F7F7F.E2AC89F7_at_tbaytel.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:23:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 1:41 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there > As much as I applaud nudism, I have to wonder about men being naked in the naked > city of 1,500 human bites per year. Youch! They are sunning their wounds to help fight infection. ralph *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 08:03:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00803 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00798 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14761 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77F1vp14346 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:01:57 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04050 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02971 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 06:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wellington.cnchost.com (wellington.concentric.net [207.155.252.14]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19209 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 06:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by wellington.cnchost.com id JAA24910; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:36:36 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Reply-To: <sh_at_actglobal.net> From: "Steve Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Visibility (was Moonlight Paddling: Be Careful Out There) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 06:36:36 -0700 Message-ID: <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJOEDOEFAA.sh_at_actglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Mike Daly said >Yesterday I was nearly overrun by a sailboat (or would have been if I >hadn't been paying attention to what was behind me) as everyone >on board was looking through their binoculars at a not-to-distant >nude beach. >John's words apply equally by day. There's a lot of idiots out there - >don't be one of them. >Mike On Saturday late afternoon fellow Paddlewiser Mike Brown and I went out for a short paddle. At one point I mentioned to Mike that there was a sailboat bearing down on us. It was aimed right at Mike. Although the sails were perpendicular to the boat and interfering with the skipper's vision, he had a female crew member standing at the Jib hanging on to the stays as a lookout. She never saw Mike until the last minute when she had the boat turn directly towards me. I frantically waived my paddle in the air (my whistle was useless in the wind as we had found out earlier) She finally saw me and had the boat turn when it was no further than about 75 - 100 feet from me. Although that sounds like a wide margin--4 - 5 kayak lengths is way too close for my comfort. Add some alcohol to the mix, reduced visibility, and people generally not paying attention and I can't believe we don't have more kayakers being run over. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 08:03:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00870 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00864 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16340 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77F36p14357 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:03:07 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04057 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12146 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08410 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f77E5pZ18478 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:05:52 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f77E5o259598 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:05:51 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:05:50 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Message-ID: <3B6FCB8E.31673.66F31F_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I almost was run over by a dorry last Thursday. The guy was sculling like crazy -guess he was working out since nobody was chasing him-, and looked frequently over his shoulder in my directions. I though he had seen me. But when he got closer and closer I decided to back up a bit. When he passed me he was kind of surprised to see me. "Oh, I haven't seen you, I looked directly into the sun, sorry", and kept going fast working hard.... No binocs and nudes involved here, just the low evening sun straight in smoeones eyes. Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 09:40:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00571 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00565 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21290 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77Gdfp14472 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:39:41 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04114 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27210 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:28:53 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13562 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id e.22.19ed97af (15901) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web30.aolmail.aol.com (web30.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.6]) by air-id09.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-0807122843; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:28:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:28:43 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs. Avoidance To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <22.19ed97af.28a1713c_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve Holtzman wrote: ... At one point I mentioned to Mike [Brown] that there was a sailboat bearing down on us. It was aimed right at Mike. Although the sails were perpendicular to the boat and interfering with the skipper's vision, he had a female crew member standing at the Jib hanging on to the stays as a lookout. She never saw Mike until the last minute when she had the boat turn directly towards me. I frantically waived my paddle in the air (my whistle was useless in the wind as we had found out earlier) She finally saw me and had the boat turn when it was no further than about 75 - 100 feet from me. Although that sounds like a wide margin--4 - 5 kayak lengths is way too close for my comfort. Ralph Hoehn comments: I seem to remember from my short and lack lustre career as a young Royal Navy cadet that it is fairly easy to ascertain that you are on a collision course with another vessel: Your relative bearing does not change. To avoid collision therefore, it makes sense to change your course and / or speed in such a way as to cause a change in relative bearing. Of course the earlier you make such a change the more chance of success you have. If furthermore you follow the "Rules of the Road" in determining on which side to pass the other vessel, you reduce your chances of avoiding collision further still (especially if your partner-in-collision-to-be acts similarly ... once he sees you). Reading about all these near misses one wonders if any of them might have been much wider misses, had more energy been spent on course and speed changes on the part of the kayakers involved and less on the described near futile efforts to get noticed by the other vessels. I do not often have the opportunity to paddle in the congested waters around Manhattan, but certain parts of Long Island Sound provide enough potential excitement in this respect. I have yet to experience a near miss ... but then perhaps I'm overly cautious in applying generous foresight to collision avoidance since I often carry kids for ballast. :-) Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 12:22:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23777 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23751 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22231 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f77JK1p14659 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:20:01 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04197 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09869 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21272 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bigwoodenradio.com ([24.9.193.206]) by femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010807183747.CSJR27096.femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_bigwoodenradio.c om> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:37:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3B70357B.129266D4_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:37:47 -0500 From: Will Jennings <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Reply-To: will_at_bigwoodenradio.com Organization: Type A! Writers Group / Big Wooden Radio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs. Avoidance References: <22.19ed97af.28a1713c_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Landlocked in Iowa, my local options for unimpeded paddling are fairly limited. To avoid exposure to PWCs and water ski boats, I often go for conditioning paddles on a lake that also serves as the home for local sailing clubs....and so on days when wind makes conditions interesting and as challenging as they are likely to get here, there will also be numerous boats under sail with novices at the helm (and foredeck...) It's become second nature to routinely scan my 360, and to watch the course patterns of the boats underway. I do carry a whistle, and my paddles have reflective tape affixed to their blades. Mostly, I try to time my crossings and moves over the deeper sections to avoid them. The Cats and Tri-hulled boats are a bit of an exception because their speed and acceleration are difficult to judge from distance. I have taken to carrying a small air horn but have yet to use it in self-defense. I was fortunate to have recently taken course through Maine Island Kayak Company off Peaks Island in Casco Bay. Over the three days we made a few crossings of busy shipping and working harbor/bay traffic lanes. Lobster boats, holiday cruisers, fuel oil tankers, sightseeing and working ferries...a fair potential for miscues, especially when you consider the exponential growth in recreational kayakers. The message was clear: assume you will not be seen, and if acknowledged, assume that you've still not been seen. This is especially true when traveling in a group, or multiple groups. A boat underway may sight one or more of your group, but miss the leads or sweepers, or respond to the presence of one group by steering into a collision course with another set of kayaks. When crossing, we stayed as close together and lined up abeam to limit potential exposure to collision. It was a lesson learned that more trying conditions and varied skill/comfort levels would strain a group's ability to stay together (and, believe me, the MIKCO guides are tremendously skilled and adept instructors). Anybody have to routinely navigate waters abuzz with a mix of working and pleasure craft? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 17:45:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11966 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11961 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12200 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f780jCp15064 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:45:12 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04344 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09103 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isis.its.uow.edu.au (isis.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29985 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicentre28.uow.edu.au (unicentre28.uow.edu.au [130.130.132.58]) by isis.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02527 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 07:33:25 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20010808072652.006fae80_at_pop.uow.edu.au> X-Sender: ratten_at_pop.uow.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:26:52 +1000 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: [Paddlewise] PWCs banned Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave wrote: Did you say that jet skis are banned in Australia? yep, PWCs are banned in Sydney Harbor ! By executive order of the premier of NSW about two months ago. BUT, I am cynical enough to suggest that this was a result of political pressure from the multi-millionaires who own the mansions lining the harbor, and whose quiet Sunday afternoons were ruined by these pesky marine aberrations. And the jet ski ban has raised all sorts of private citizen versus public good issues which have already been thoroughly canvassed on PaddleWise. If nothing else, the precedent has been set legally, to ban a type of watercraft from a certain waterway, on supposedly environmental and safety grounds. I believe the PWC industry here will eventually take the Government to court. Like most forms of successful watercraft, PWCs do have their place. Sydney waterpolice, for example, used them during the Olympics to patrol the harbor. BTW, I do not own a jetski. And as other correspondents have already noted, idiots can be found on all manner of boats, not just jetskis. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 17:46:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12044 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12036 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12262 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f780k1p15075 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:46:01 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04351 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22062 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (callisto.net.voyager.co.nz [203.21.30.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29613 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup (ip75.net.voyager.co.nz [203.110.16.75]) by callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA20267 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:15:10 +1200 (NZST) From: "Allan and Joyce Singleton" <alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility (was Moonlight Paddling: Be Careful Out There) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:13:56 +1200 Message-ID: <NEBBKFEMBLGOMPJPJOCFCEJDCIAA.alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <NCBBIPHOKKCHAMOFEAAJOEDOEFAA.sh_at_actglobal.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve wrote; > > On Saturday late afternoon fellow Paddlewiser Mike Brown and I > went out for > a short paddle. At one point I mentioned to Mike that there was > a sailboat > bearing down on us. It was aimed right at Mike. > Who do you assume is supposed to give way here, Steve and Mike or the yacht? Power gives way to sail, but paddle power? Or do you give way to starboard? This sort of thing definitely makes me nervous when on the water, but I have had the odd gin palace divert behind me as per the rules when in a port - starboard crossing situation. Allan Singleton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 17:47:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12293 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12284 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12550 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f780lXp15086 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04365 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05373 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vision.net.au (root_at_mail.ltn.eftel.com [203.17.23.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00087 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (nas3-28.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.123]) by vision.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA08241 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:28:58 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ltn.eftel.com: Host nas3-28.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.123] claimed to be oemcomputer Message-ID: <005801c11fa2$5cfafc40$7b78a8ca_at_oemcomputer> From: "Wilky" <carrot_at_vision.net.au> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] The perils of Sailing Boats Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:10:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net All this talk of sailing boats reminds me of an early morning paddle. The particular area that I go has a Sea Eagles nest high up in a tree that is visible only from the water. The yacht's also anchor in this area as well. So here am I paddling in stealth mode just on day break. On the yacht that I am just gliding past is the skipper standing on the back of said boat admiring the sunrise and having his morning bladder release. I very nearly copped a golden shower and the fella on the yacht near peed all over himself trying to regain some composure. What did I learn that morning. Don't paddle so close to anchored yachts at day break. <<grins>> Cheers Wilky >From down under down under in Tas. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 18:49:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03129 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03124 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20524 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f781nSp15218 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:49:29 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04405 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12318 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptldpop5.ptld.uswest.net ([198.36.160.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12565 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28579 invoked by alias); 8 Aug 2001 00:47:49 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 28568 invoked by uid 0); 8 Aug 2001 00:47:48 -0000 Received: from dialupq80.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (216.161.86.80) by 198.36.160.5 with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 00:47:48 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c11fa6$29fc0920$5056a1d8_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <22.19ed97af.28a1713c_at_aol.com> <3B70357B.129266D4_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs. Avoidance Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:05:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Will writes:: >>Anybody have to routinely navigate waters abuzz with a mix of working and pleasure craft? Oh yeah. I guide a number of trips in the San Juan Isles of Washington and on the Columbia River in Oregon each year, been doing it a while. IMHO, a group needs to stick together in a pod. If I couldn't hold a group together on a crossing, I would not take that group to that crossing. period. The podsters should not be ALL abreast or ALL in line, but grouped in a comfortable sized pod. This pod then needs to proceed on a desired course at a desired speed and KEEP to that course and speed, assuming that the captain on the other vessel will see us <as a group> and make the needed change in course. I constantly monitor my 360º AND angle on the bow with ALL vessels in the area. I only make a change in my course or speed if I need too, which is rare. If I assumed that every vessel I encounter doesn't see me I would spend hours making a simple crossing and I'd be changing course and speed so often that no one <including my clients> would know my intentions. This is not desirable. In a bunch of years I have yet to even come close with another vessel. I have talked with many captains who use these waters and they all report that a group of kayakers is easy to spot with their bright colors and paddles a flashing. When the kayak group is on track they then can plan an appropriate action. There is nothing they hate worse than a group that starts and stops and slows and then speed up and turns 3 times in 10 minutes. BTW, these areas I paddle are full of deadheads, logs, rocks and other stuff that NO captain wants to hit, so they ARE aware. And I do keep an eagle eye on every vessel, knowing that if a mistake happens *I* am aware and can take action. Steve Scherrer <who paddles a 19' solid ORANGE boat!!> Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 7 18:51:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05575 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05566 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23344 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f781pep15232 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:51:40 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA04416 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02604 Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-smtp2.socket.net (mail-smtp2.socket.net [216.106.88.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20023 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from socket.net (mc1.socket.net [216.106.88.7]) by mail-smtp2.socket.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f781a3H16470 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:36:03 -0500 Received: from 0024140075 ([216.106.36.216]) by socket.net ; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:36:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c11fab$e78b0180$d8246ad8_at_0024140075> From: "Todd Miller" <drift_at_socket.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:46:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Some friends and I had a similar experience last summer on the lower Missouri River. We had decided to paddle down the river to see the Jefferson City, MO fireworks on the 4th of July from the river. So we put on at an upstream ramp and floated down, and by the time we got to the city, it was dark and the fireworks had begun. We had an incredible view as we came around the last bend of the river before the city and saw the fireworks going off over the river. One of the paddlers we had with us was relatively new to boating and had gotten ahead, so I moved up to stay with her and make sure she had no problems. When the fireworks ended, there was a brief moment of silence, and the only light was from the city and the moon. Then, one by one, lights downriver came on, one by one. Then, enmasse, all the powerboaters who had also decided to get on the water started their engines and started heading upriver past us back to the ramps. I called over to Kris telling her to turn on her lights, and I did the same. But with multiple bass boats, etc., running full bore upriver at full speed, it was hard to tell if anyone actually saw us- if they did, they didn't bother to slow up. Not that I expected them to. Between the churning water from all the wakes and some strange crosscurrents under the Route 54 bridges, it made paddling in the dark a little difficult. We also had to keep out eyes open for the landing. But it certainly made for an interesting trip :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 8 08:35:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04875 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04866 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04024 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f78FX4p16482 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:33:04 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04665 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25365 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09474 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <QQL2TKM4>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 07:50:58 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A026_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: "paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] trip report Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 05:41:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sweden, Eastsea, a summer day. Heavy clouds with a threat of rain, but no wind. The sea is flat like a mirror, grey like the sky. I set out to explore some of the islands close to shore, not intending to paddle open sea, but while drifting from rocky shore to rocky shore the patches of water get wider, the islands rockier and smaller. After a while, I find myself out of the shelter of the islands, paddling to a small, lonely rock a couple of kilometers out in the open sea. On the horizon the shades of grey of sky and sea blend, without a clear distinction. The little island is the only thing that clearly stands out. I keep paddling, but I cannot see the island getting closer, or the shore getting further away. The wake of my boat indicates movement, but even the wake is steady. The paddle is the only thing moving, leaving circles in the water that travel backwards. Nothing else moves, time seems to stop. I feel a distant fear that can not find a reason for its existance. A fear of never reaching the island, of a thunderstorm breaking loose, of capsizing in competely flat water. The fear roams around for a while, trying to attach itself to an actual risk or problem. Not finding anything, it just leaves me with a sense of adventure, of exploring the unknown, outside and within. On reaching the island, the adventure ends. It's just an island like all others: solid, smooth rock and nothing else. I celebrate the moment in the way that any kayakker around the world will celebrate any great achievement: with a cup of coffee. The way back is like any return trip: Just a lot of paddling, but I just can't stop smiling. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 8 08:35:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02661 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02231 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:29:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29000 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f78FTRp16468 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:29:27 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04657 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26435 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10282 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 208-58-242-63.s63.tnt2.atnnj.pa.dialup.rcn.com ([208.58.242.63] helo=erols.com) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15UNV9-0004Mx-00 ; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 03:11:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3B70E6FE.75CF566C_at_erols.com> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 03:15:10 -0400 From: Gabriel L Romeu <romeug_at_erols.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Todd Miller <drift_at_socket.net> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Moonlight paddleing: be careful out there References: <001701c11fab$e78b0180$d8246ad8_at_0024140075> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I guess I and some Paddlewise locals had a rather dissimilar but relevant occurrence in broad daylight at the barneget bay. Bearing down at us at less than 2 knots was one of those bigger double jet ski kind of things. we moved to it's starboard and it slowly turned to follow. A quick dash to closer to shore did not deter it and it honed in again. we successfully avoided a collision and watched it pass with two very pre-teen girls at the helm with one in deep conversation on a cell phone oblivious to her surrounding. > > Some friends and I had a similar experience * -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 8 08:35:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04924 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04916 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04509 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f78FXrp16493 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:33:53 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04672 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25359 Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09454 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <QQL2TKDQ>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 07:48:59 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A025_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: "paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs. Avoidance Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:49:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Will Jennings wrote: "Anybody have to routinely navigate waters abuzz with a mix of working and pleasure craft?" I regularly paddle the Waal in the Netherlands. The Waal is the main connection between the harbor of Rotterdam and Germany, so I meet a lot of big cargo ships, mixed with pleasure boats. I paddle there to surf the waves of the big ships. Some of them have great bow- or stern waves, while others create incredible stopper-like waves behind their propellors. To get the best waves, I approach these boats as close as possible, so a "near miss" is my best-case scenario. These big boats are not dangerous in my opinion: They are predictable. I make sure I am predicable too: I stay in view of the skipper, I make my moves clear (I am WAITING for them to pass, APPROACHING the side of a ship, WAITING for the waves or SURFING the waves), if possible I make eyecontact with the skipper and greet him. Often they greet back, and enjoy the sight of me playing their waves. The powerboaters often scare me. They are unpredictable like bugs, often drunk, unclear in their moves and contact seems to be impossible. Sometimes I find myself laying my paddle down, raising my hands in a desperate manner, trying to say "What the hell do you expect me to do?" The guesture seems lost on them, but so far they all have managed to avoid me, in the same random manner that they perform all their navigation. Usually, they don't get too close to the shores of the water, so if you stay within 10 meters of the shore you are quite safe, while the waves that bounce back from the shore can give you an extra thrill. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 9 09:56:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17104 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17089 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06013 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f79Gt2p19429 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:55:02 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05139 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07843 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from deimos.frii.net (root_at_deimos.frii.com [216.17.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16234 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ftc-0112.dialup.frii.com (ftc-0224.dialup.frii.com [216.17.134.72]) by deimos.frii.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id f79GTlO76545 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by ftc-0112.dialup.frii.com with Microsoft Mail id <01C120BB.A3CD04A0_at_ftc-0112.dialup.frii.com>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:11:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01C120BB.A3CD04A0_at_ftc-0112.dialup.frii.com> From: Marek Uliasz <uliasz_at_frii.com> To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Nebraska Sandhills - the Dismal River Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:11:12 -0600 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I just updated my website with a photo report from my recent paddling on the Dismal River in Nebraska. This little spring fed river would be too challenging for my long sea kayak (CLC Patuxent 19.5), so I used my new Sea Wind - the decked canoe designed and built by Verlen Kruger. It was the first river trip of this boat - it was doing great. The first trip was a short paddling on Lake Superior: Apostle Islands - some pictures are coming soon. Anybody is familiar with the lower Dismal River, below Thedford? Marek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 9 09:56:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16898 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16893 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05373 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f79Gs9p19415 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:54:09 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05132 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27890 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-232.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.232]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA05052 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:56:02 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <00b401c120ec$241dfbc0$77d3150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] visibility and avoidance Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:35:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Just got back from a three day paddle of Resurrection Bay in Kenai Fjords. I notice that several of you have had near miss experiences so I thought I would tell you about the one I had on my trip. I was paddling north headed back to my put in at Seward. I saw a young couple paddling a double kayak heading my direction . When we were about 50 feet apart a sea otter surfaced about 25 feet in front of me. He was staring at the double kayak and didn't realize I was behind him. He began backing away from the doube and directly at me. The back of his head was on a collision course for my bow. When he was about ten feet away I tapped my deck. Boy was he surprized! He dove quickly and resurfaced behind me and stared for a moment then dove again. I hope to in a couple days post more about this trip. In the mean time watch out for those Sea Otters! Bob, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 9 11:13:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10890 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10782 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26541 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f79IAZp19551 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:10:35 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05224 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06595 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17743 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.76.84.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.76.84]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03259; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007d01c120fd$5a7f6e40$544cf6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <cpakayaker_at_lists.shire.net>, <buzz_at_bask.org>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Request for Info on Supporting Triathlon Swims Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:01:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have organized many kayak supports of swimmers for events here but I face a new one, a mass Triathlon. I need some strategy help in assigning the kayakers. If you have had any experience in kayaker escorts in a mass Triathlon or witnessed it or know a contact person please let me know back channel. Here is the description of the race this coming Sunday (August 12th) 1,000 triathletes swimming 1 mile on the Hudson from 97th St into the 79th St. Marina. They will be sent off in waves of about 50 each every few minutes. We figure it will take about 2 hours for all the triathletes to be out of the water, meaning we will have to be out there that long from beginning to end of this swim portion of the race. The swimmers will have to go around a large, occupied mooring field out into the river and near the end turn into the marina to a finish line inside. There will be around a 1.5 mile current going with them and us in a downward river direction. I am trying to figure out the best strategy for the kayakers (I will have about 30-35 if I am lucky, maybe less). There are motorboats stationed to form an outside line on the river. To some degree the course will be lined with rope (or so promised). Normally we just flow with the swimmers in less populated swims (80 swimmers or so total) space out among them and keeping them away from piers and obstacles. No real piers on this race. One thought is to station several kayaks at key points holding their position against the current (say, at the turn-in into the marina) and have the rest flowing with the swimmers and then paddling back up to pick more of them up again over and over again. But I am wide open to any suggestions. I would appreciate insights from other triathlons. thanks in advance, ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 9 13:20:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22308 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22301 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23342 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f79KJdp19669 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:19:40 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05276 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18754 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from deimos.frii.net (root_at_deimos.frii.com [216.17.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12706 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frii.com (microbe.atmos.colostate.edu [129.82.49.64]) by deimos.frii.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f79IWpv80965 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 12:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3B72D272.23ADB449_at_frii.com> Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:12:02 -0600 From: Marek Uliasz <uliasz_at_frii.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Dismal River paddling report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sorry, I 've forgot to post the address of my website: http://www.frii.com/~uliasz/wayfarer Marek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 9 21:04:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27246 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27241 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29233 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7A43Zp20116 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:03:35 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05435 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00918 Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10472 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.79.164.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.79.164]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09844; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:48:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003601c12147$648ad7e0$a44ff6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <cpakayaker_at_lists.shire.net>, <buzz_at_bask.org>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Thanks on the Triathlon Kayaker Coverage Ideas Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 22:51:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks, I have been getting some terrific back channel input on these three listserves regarding how to cover 1,000 triatheletes in our Triathlon this coming Sunday on the Hudson off the Big Apple. I have tried to acknowledge each one. Really great insights. That is what is so great about these listserves I am still all ears if you have inputs to make. Again thanks, gracias, merci, obrigado, vielan danke ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 10 10:25:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10844 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10838 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06996 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7AHMQp22131 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:22:26 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05678 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09480 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.17]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04986 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com ([65.6.17.54]) by femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010810172033.BJPA29353.femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_home.com> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:20:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3B74177E.1BBE08F_at_home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:18:54 -0500 From: Stephen King <steveking2000_at_home.com> Organization: _at_Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Avoidance vs. Visibility Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am a sailor with a lot of experience...hundreds of nearshore races, many off-shore passages, etc. This year I have noticed more paddlers in Lake Michigan off Chicago than ever before. On several occasions this summer there were five or six paddlers in kayaks about a mile offshore that paddled right through the middle of a regular Wednesday night sailboat race...about thirty boats ranging from 18 foot one-designs up to a Santa Cruz 70 footer. I assigned one crew member to do nothing but keep an eye on these paddlers until we were well clear of them. In the two to three foot chop the paddlers regularly disappeared. If you took your eye off of them for an instant it was difficult to re-acquire them. They were still out there with no running lights, no all-around white light, after sunset as we finished racing. They are lucky to be alive with all of the powerboat, sailboat, dinner cruise boat traffic typical of a nice summer evening in those waters. It is correct to say that responsible boaters of all kinds should maintain a look-out. But, you can't avoid what you can't see, and a kayak in chop or near sunset is damn near invisible until you are right on top of it. Steve King *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 10 11:17:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27853 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27848 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (mtaout.telus.net [199.185.220.235]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14074 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kit6380886a ([216.232.109.86]) by priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with SMTP id <20010810181742.QQBP887.priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net_at_kit6380886a > for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:17:42 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010810111854.009456b0_at_mail.udgroup.com> X-Sender: robm_at_mail.udgroup.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:18:54 -0700 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] "Rules of the Road" and Human Powered Craft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Alllan wrote: >>Steve wrote; > > On Saturday late afternoon fellow Paddlewiser Mike Brown and I > went out for > a short paddle. At one point I mentioned to Mike that there was > a sailboat > bearing down on us. It was aimed right at Mike. > Who do you assume is supposed to give way here, Steve and Mike or the yacht? Power gives way to sail, but paddle power? Or do you give way to starboard? This sort of thing definitely makes me nervous when on the water, but I have had the odd gin palace divert behind me as per the rules when in a port - starboard crossing situation.<< As I understand it, the Rules for the Prevention of Collision at Sea or the "Rules of the Road" do not apply to kayaks, canoes, rowboats, etc. They mention only sailboats and powered craft. There are some rules which apply to all craft, such as not impeding a larger vessel in narrow channels, and the overtaking rule (the overtaking vessel must keep clear). There is another over-riding rule, which is "do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision" but this only holds when at the last second, having done everything else possible to avoid collision, it is necessary to do something ouside the standard rules. If power boats give way to you properly, according to the Rules, they are doing so as a courtesy. Given the "not impeding" rule, and the tiny size of a kayak, they could probably argue this rule in many cases, anyway. I think Steve and Mike should have given way to the sailboat, as the sailboat had no duty to give way to the kayaks. Also. practically speaking, a kayak has full power in any direction like a powerboat, but a sailboat forced into an emergency maneuver may well lose speed and control. Of course, when meeting with other human powered craft, it makes sense to apply the Rules. After all, if they work for the big boats, they should work for us. Just don't count on them working for encounters between us and the big fellows. I was interested to read of Niels' experiences riding large vessel wakes. I used to do this on my Laser in Burrard Inlet, trying to hit the wakes of the booze cruisers as close as possible to the stern, to get the biggest waves. Unfortunately, they often would take evasive action, giving me my right-of-way, leaving me too far from the waves, and on the wrong side relative to the wind for good surfing. Tugs were always very good about slowing when passing me in my rowboat, even though I would have welcomed the chance to surf my dory on their very energetic wakes. I think part of this may be just because they really don't know how capable the boat is, and they didn't want to risk having to come back to pick me up if it swamped or capsized. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 10 16:54:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19813 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19805 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f28.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.28]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00541 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:54:00 -0700 Received: from 24.45.212.25 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:54:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.45.212.25] From: "Paul Raymond" <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com> To: robm_at_udl.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rules of the Road" and Human Powered Craft Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:54:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F28zHNjdND2nTe1CIGj00005256_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Aug 2001 23:54:00.0798 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA385FE0:01C121F7] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In my Connecticut boating safety class (given by my sailing school) our instructor gave us the simplified rules of the road "pyramid". Muscle power at the top, next comes sail boats, then power. Exceptions are sail boats under power, and large ships in narrow channels. I looked in the Boating Basics handout literature and your right, it does not state this, but is quite vague. The Connecticut Boaters Guide gives the hierarchy as this: 1. A vessel not under command 2. Restricted by ability to maneuver, i.e. tug pulling a barge 3. Fishing Vessel 4. Sailing 5. Power Great, and I thought everyone followed the same pyramid. If I throw my paddle down and turn and look the other way I instantly become a vessel not under command and instantly move to the top! I love the paragrapgh that states " Many people still do not know the rules. ... All vessels ... must take action to avoid a collision if the other boat isn't following the rules in sufficient time. Last year we were paddling in Candlewood Lake when this giant Scarab came roaring straight at us out of nowhere. Ended up paddling like hell to get out of the way when someone's head popped up and the boat veered off at the last moment. Guess I should just paddle near large rocks. So, I guess the rules vary by State or whoever has jurisdiction, with common sense prevailing. Hopefully. >As I understand it, the Rules for the Prevention of Collision at Sea or the >"Rules of the Road" do not apply to kayaks, canoes, rowboats, etc. They >mention only sailboats and powered craft. There are some rules which apply >to all craft, such as not impeding a larger vessel in narrow channels, and > the overtaking rule (the overtaking vessel must keep clear). There _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 10 17:31:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02155 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02095 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl8.america.net (atl8.america.net [199.170.121.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23073 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gsinet.net (max1-2.ches.gsinet.net [12.16.102.3]) by atl8.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA24239; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B747E8D.6040809_at_gsinet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:38:37 -0400 From: Michael Noyes <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> Reply-To: mnoyes_at_gsinet.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MSKC <MSKC_at_egroups.com>, Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip report. Bellamy Reservoir (NH) 5 Aug 2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We left my house at about 9:30. It was an overcast morning with not a breeze in sight. It was warm and a little bit muggy. Pretty much a normal New England summers day. The weather forecast was for clearing skies towards afternoon and light five to ten knot breezes when it cleared. For once the forecast was accurate. The first part of the trip was quite familiar to me. We took New Hampshire Route 102 east to New Hampshire Route 101 East. This is the route I take to work every day. As we approached the Route 125 off ramp, almost too late for a clean exit, Mark pointed at the exit. "Uh, Mike..." Darn! It was morning and I was heading in the right direction. The autopilot had kicked in and I was heading for work on a Sunday morning! We made the exit without too much embarrassment and proceeded up Route 125 north to Route 9 east. Route 9 cuts right across the Bellamy Reservoir and there is a small pull of on the east side where kayaks and light boats can be launched. The launch site appears to be nothing more than the old route 9 that got flooded when the dam was built. There is parking space for about ten cars. There is no "launch ramp" in the conventional sense just a semi-paved trail that heads out into the water. You want to have your boat fully floating before you get into it because the asphalt under the thin layer of silt grinds horribly on your boat if you don't. You have to walk about twenty feet into the water to get ankle deep. Make sure you shake the weeds off your feet before you put them in the cockpit. Pulling out of the launch area we headed south under the route 9 bridge. We were headed for the dam. The Bellamy Reservoir is quite shallow; I don't think it exceeds thirty feet deep. The topographic maps I have of the area still show the contour lines from before the dam was built. The contour interval is twenty feet and only one contour line shows beneath the water. Three quarters of the area of the reservoir have no contour line under the water level so that area has to be less than twenty feet deep. The reservoir has the feel of a very large well-established beaver pond. In truth there are beaver in the reservoir. There were no beaver out and about while we were there but we saw several lodges and some freshly gnawed branches. As we neared a cove just before the reservoir turns right and narrows we saw an osprey land in a tree on the shore. The osprey moved on before we were within a hundred yards but we were able to identify it. We would see it again on our way back from the dam. Ten years ago ospreys were so rare in southern New Hampshire that a reported sighting would have half of the town talking. Now it seems that every body of water large enough to support them has a nesting pair. The number of bald eagle sightings is also on the rise. I take this as a good sign. Perhaps we are finally learning how to be good stewards of the environment. As we continued towards the dam we passed small coves full of lily pads. Here and there a great blue heron waded in the shallows searching for a meal. A pair of cormorants were resting in a tree on a small point. Occasionally the trees on shore would open up and reveal a grassy hillside. The water was smooth as glass as we paddled along soaking in the beauty of the area. This place is on my must visit list for the fall foliage season. We reached the dam and found that there was no water flowing over the top. A small spillway on the right was allowing a little water to pass but it wasn't nearly the volume that I would expect from the Bellamy River. With nothing going over the top we were able to paddle right up to the dam and look over the edge. It felt odd to me to be sitting in the water almost thirty feet above the ground. We took a couple pictures then headed back the way we came. Paddling back towards the route 9 bridge we paused to check out the only other launch point on the reservoir. This ramp was a bit better than the first and could actually launch a small boat on a trailer if you have skill enough to back around a narrow 45-degree turn. The ramp was sand and it appeared to be an excellent place to launch a kayak. It is also much more difficult to find by car. The ramp is located off of Nute road in Madbury NH. The amount of parking available is about the same as at route 9. With only about twenty parking spaces for the entire reservoir it will never get crowded on the water. Despite the beautiful weather neither parking lot filled up while we were there which was fine by us. Just south of the route 9 bridge there is a medium sized island. The shoreline is brush choked and it doesn't look like an inviting place to stop for lunch. But the island is pretty in it's own way. On our way south we passed east of the island so this time we wanted to pass on the west side. We were paddling up "the slot" toward the island and overtaking a canoe propelled by an electric trolling motor. The two fishermen in the canoe first noticed us when we were about two hundred yards behind them. When they looked back again a couple minutes later we had cut the distance in half. I saw the skipper twist his wrist on the throttle to full and the "race" was on. Mark and I didn't bother to speed up. In fact we slowed down as we came up beside them so we could talk. They were impressed that we were so easily able to catch them and asked how fast we could go. I told them that I had pushed my Viviane out past 6.5 MPH, but I could only do that for a couple hundred yards in my current condition. Then I told him that Mark and I are good for a couple miles at five MPH but "right now we are only doing 3.7 MPH." There is a motor restriction on the Bellamy Reservoir. Gas motors are not allowed only electric. It is a strange feeling to sit in a kayak and know that you are in the fastest boat on the lake! We paddled back under the route 9 bridge and past the put in. We wanted to check out Mallego Brook. On the map Mallego Brook looks larger than the Bellamy River because the land has such a shallow slope. When the dam was put in Mallego Brook became a bay two hundred yards wide, a mile long, and about ten feet deep. This area is heaven on earth for people who love water lilies. We saw hundreds of the standard white variety sprinkled with an occasional light pink flower. I was surprised when we found two that were red! I had never seen a red water lily before. While we were talking and admiring the flowers we rounded a corner near an abandoned beaver lodge. There was a small dead tree floating in the water next to it. At first we didn't pay much attention to it. After all a debarked branchless tree floating next to a beaver lodge is a common sight. Then we realized that the brown lump near the outer end of the tree was moving. We had come upon a river otter relaxing in the sun. I don't see these wonderful creatures often around here so I reached for my camera to get a picture. My camera rests under a deck bungee. As I pulled the camera out the bungee snapped against the deck with a loud thump. Upon hearing this the otter, which had been ignoring us to this point, decided that it would be safer to avoid the two noisy kayakers and headed into the water. Not wanting to bother the otter we moved on. But we did drift for a while a bit past the lodge in hopes of seeing the otter again. We did not see it then but we would get a glimpse of it again on the way back. It was in a small cove just past "otter point" that we spotted the first of the red water lilies. I paddled in close for a good picture because I did not know before then that red water lilies existed. About that time my stomach started insisting that we head back to the put in. My stomach can get quite insistent and I have learned that it is not a good idea to ignore it. So we paddled to the opposite shoreline and turned into the freshening breeze for the trip back. We had explored about two thirds of the available shoreline. For a scenic, quiet paddle that is close to home the Bellamy Reservoir is an excellent choice. Add to the mix the freedom from having to constantly look over your shoulder for fear of being run down by an unobservant power boater and the exhilaration of being "the fastest boat on the lake" and you have a combination that is hard to beat. If you are ever out on the Bellamy Reservoir on a Sunday morning keep your eye out for a yellow decked Kajak Sport Viviane. I will be back to paddle one of my favorite haunts and I'll be happy to talk and paddle with anyone who wants to. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 10 18:29:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20867 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20860 Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28304 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13235 invoked by alias); 11 Aug 2001 01:29:32 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 13218 invoked by uid 0); 11 Aug 2001 01:29:32 -0000 Received: from dialupi149.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (207.225.89.149) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 01:29:32 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c12207$7e3e1d80$9559e1cf_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: "Paul Raymond" <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com>, <robm_at_udl.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F28zHNjdND2nTe1CIGj00005256_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Rules of the Road" and Human Powered Craft Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:46:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net A handy saying goes like this: New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some Soon. New= No Command Reels= Restricted by draft or maneuverability Catch= Commercial vessels Fish= Fishing vessels <working> So= Sail boats Purchase= Power boats <private> Some= Sea Planes Soon= Submarines I believe we are power vessels restricted by maneuverability so fall in the upper end of P. I have also heard it: P=Pleasure vessels, so we would definitely fall in P. Steve Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 11 12:18:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27886 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27878 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27732 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7BJGTp24828 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:16:29 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06194 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06806 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13986 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-473.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.231]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA20187 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:08:23 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <002501c12290$e6bd86a0$e7d3150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Resurrection Bay -long post Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:10:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One of the reasons I enjoy paddling whether it be a boat on a river or a boat on the sea is the experience of seeing something for the first time. In river canoeing or kayaking the thrill of whitewater is matched by the thrill of turning the river bend and seeing what lays ahead. In sea kayaking even though the turns are sometimes fewer, going around a point of an Island or turning into a Fjord or bay for the first time is a true joy. Last week I drove down to Seward, Alaska to paddle Resurrection Bay for the first time. It was a trip where almost every time I turned around a point something new and different happened. Resurrection Bay is located in Kenai Fjords National Park and opens into the waters of the Gulf of Alaska. The weather was perfect with hazy blue skies and only a tract of wind from the Southwest. My goal was to spend three easy days paddling down to Bear Glacier and back. For the first few miles I paddled amid many Pigeon Gillemonts, and Marbled Mureletts. Several sandy beaches rose out of the water offering a place for hikers and backpackers to enjoy the day. Before the ‘64 earthquake these beaches were larger but most of the land here dropped about 5 feet as a result of the big quake. Across the Bay I could see the Godwin Glacier carving its’ way through the mountain to the sea. Next time I plan to paddle the east side of the bay for a closer look. After a couple miles I rounded Caines Head point and about five feet in front of my boat a Horned Puffin popped up, looked back at me and swam off. I looked around to see five other Puffins nearby. Usually Puffins are shy birds but these didn’t seem to mind my presence. I was careful to avoid them but as spread out as they were eventually I had to paddle between them. They seemed to take little notice and went about diving for fish. I was so fascinated by the Puffins I didn’t at first notice the change in scenery. I found that the slopping beaches had quickly given way to towering cliffs. These cliffs revealed the titanic forces of the movement of the earth’s tectonic plates. The strata of rock rather than lying perpendicular to the water rose horizontal as a result of the collision of the tectonic plates forcing them upward. The ocean waves over time had eroded away some of the weaker rock forming deep vertical ridges in the cliffs. The beginnings of a few sea caves had begun but it was high tide so I didn’t try to enter any. Most by the way were only a few feet in length. On the other hand the sea and time had formed one sea arch which I could not resist paddling through. Two fishing boat watched me paddle through and I realize once again the advantage the seakayak offers. The ability to go where so many other type boats cannot. I camped by a stream on a rocky beach in an unnamed cove. Most of the rock had been pounded into hand sized smooth stones. Someone had taken great pains to clear out the rocks and add some beach sand for a tent site. It must have taken a long time. Thank you whoever you where. The next morning I was greeted with overcast sky and again very little wind. After a couple miles I saw two sea stacks rising out of the water just off a point of land. Go around? Are you kidding? Of course I went between them, and of course a rough wave caught me in the middle. Not really a big wave but enough the break and make things fun and interesting. After passing between the sea stacks I noticed the air temperature had dropped considerably and the wind had suddenly picked up. That meant only one thing, Bear Glacier. Bear Glacier is a massive glacier with a 3 mile wide face. A small Moraine in front of the Glacier offers a landing and hiking spot. The problem is the it is a "dump beach" where the waves break just a few feet from the steep beach. I tried at first to enter where the stream from the Glacier melt comes out. I paddled in cautiously only to find myself getting surfed in by a couple waves that in all honesty didn’t look big enough to surf. As I surfed down the surface of the wave the out flowing current quickly grabbed my bow. I committed myself to the broach, braced and rode sideways for a while before pulling off the wave. I them paddled back out realizing that the combination of wave coming in and the current going out was creating conditions that were more chaotic than I wanted to handle. Later I would hike down and see the current was going out a lot faster than I first realized. So I elected to go for the dump beach landing. Normally I count waves , figure out their pattern and ride in behind the smaller waves, but this day there was no pattern or rhythm to the waves. Waves just came in different shapes and sizes whenever. I landed O.K. but as I was trying to jump out of the boat a wave surprised me from behind and literally flipped me (not the boat) and I landed head and shoulder first in the sand and surf. I jumped up grabbed the boat and the first words I said were, "gee I am glad no one from Paddlewise saw that!" I spent the next hour or so hiking the Glacier moraine and watching icebergs float down the stream and into the sea. On group of three icebergs looked remarkably like three humpback whales surfacing to breathe. I paddled back to the same cove as the night before but chose a different beach to camp on. This one faced the south where the big winter storms bring forth large rolling waves. These storms had taken the rocks and had terraced the beach into several different levels. I camped on the next to the highest level beside a 15 foot waterfall which sang me to sleep. Despite laying on a bed of rocks it really was comfortable. The seas had pounded the rocks so that they were all smooth and rounded off. Not a comfortable as grandma’s feather bed but still very sleepable. Approaching Caines Head point the next morning I think I discovered the source of the name for Canes Head. The strata of rock in an exposed rock cliff resembled the head of a man sleeping. Alas all good things must come to an end but not before one last surprise. I rounded Canes Head and discovered the low tide had revealed a sea cave. Not very long at all but still fun to paddle into. Inside I discovered hundreds of sea anemones hanging from the walls, their filaments(?) drawn in waiting the rising tide. As I paddled into Seward the wind had picked up and for once was pushing me home. A perfect end to a wonderful time at sea. Bob, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 11 22:37:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13499 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13492 Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11201.mail.yahoo.com (web11201.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.171]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA13652 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010812053645.359.qmail_at_web11201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [165.247.47.95] by web11201.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:36:45 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:36:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Where Is Proper Place To Carry Flares To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Where would you recommend one carry flares? Is the front pocket of a PFD OK? If so, would you prefer face up, or face down. Are there any incidents of spontaneous flare ignition? I carry 2 Orion Star Tracers in the front pocket of my PFD face down. --TomBrooklyn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 12 18:58:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26755 Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26750 Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpimssmtpu10.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.email.msn.com [207.46.181.85]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21153 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 80ix0 ([204.227.195.137]) by cpimssmtpu10.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c1239b$74dc9240$89c3e3cc_at_80ix0> From: "ridem" <ridem_at_msn.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip Report_northern Saskatchewan Canada Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:58:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2001 01:55:51.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[14768820:01C1239B] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We just completed a 24 day paddle in northern Canada. There is a trip report and photos (including a spectacular forest fire) posted at the URL http://communities.msn.com/RichWendysAwayFromHomePage . It loads a bit slowly (it's a MSN webpage), but I think it might be of interest. There are other trip reports on the page from Nunavut and NWT in Canada as well. Rich Dempsey ridem_at_msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 13 06:01:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24765 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24728 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f131.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02045 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:00:13 -0700 Received: from 63.174.33.147 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:00:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.174.33.147] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip Report Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:00:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F131sjCGvseE4D3MBhe00006e02_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2001 13:00:13.0909 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4696050:01C123F7] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I said that I would let people know what happened with my "designated chicken" idea for a youth adventure therapy trip. We sea kayaked northeastern Georgian Bay [Lake Huron, Ontario] with eight teens, all of whom were ordered by their probation officers to go or else. Or else what, I'm not sure. The teens paddled doubles, the counselors singles, my wife and I started in a double together but switched later as kids needed experienced paddlers to follow for stroke instruction or to steer in the narrow channels between the islands. Each morning I asked for a "designated chicken" to anticipate at least three hazards we might face that day and then have the group discuss how to deal with the hazards. It worked much better than I had hoped, although the wearing of the chicken hats [purchased from chickenhat.com, of course] was tolerated but not not enjoyed. At least I have two warm funny hats for skiing now. Anyway, the teens came up with accurate assessments of the risks. The day after a storm we had really clear, high pressure skies and the teen chicken-for-a-day said that sunburn would be a hazard. Slippery rocks were also mentioned every day. One kid even came up with "bad communication between partners" as a hazard. The discussions went well and resulted in good plans for safety. Few of which were actually followed, unfortunately, but these are risk takers. No one got hurt past a few scratches from falling on slippery rocks and a few sunburned bodies. One girl had mild sun poisoning. Only one boat tipped and the water was warm and the waves not outrageously high, so that was ok. The boy in the boat listed the capsize as being the high point of the day and the girl listed as the second low of the day, the lowest low being a scratch on her shin. So the swim was no big deal to them. I was stressed, but all's well that ends well. They definitely enjoyed the clean air, amazing scenery and outdoor experience. We saw minks in every camp and bear sign but no bears. The local people were great. I know the teens had a good trip because they started getting nutty and aggressive on the van ride home, indicating that then stresses of homelife were coming back after being gone for a week. Jim Tibensky _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 13 06:17:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29710 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29705 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (www02.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12380 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.36.187]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:15:05 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs. Avoidance - also - my friend Carol and the US navy Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:10:33 +1000 Message-ID: <000701c123f9$567e4830$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2001 13:15:06.0559 (UTC) FILETIME=[F878F4F0:01C123F9] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Will Jennings wrote: "Anybody have to routinely navigate waters abuzz with a mix of working and pleasure craft?" G'Day, Back from Gallipoli - and responding to Will Jennings. I paddle Sydney harbour from one end to the other and can do this in a day starting at Lane Cover River and ending up at Roseville bridge. The harbour has commercial and private pleasure craft ferries, cargo ships, Naval ships, sailboats and, until recently, jet skis. The trickiest to avoid are sail boats. Never had any problem with jetskis who I've found to be courteous and considerate (albeit noisy) although there have been reports of some acting like hoons. Sail boats require lots of observation and care as they are generally racing. To avoid ferries I never cross point to point across the mouth of a bay but turn into the bay for at least 100 meters before crossing and always check the standard ferry routes in advance. We try to cross shipping lanes in a large well disciplined group if at all possible and also make a practice of going from one marker buoy to the next and using the buoys as stopping points to check for traffic. Also do this to avoid bomboras in swell. It really worries me to see people surfing on the back of large ship wakes - I suspect it gives kayakers a bad name in the eyes of the ferry captains but don't know this for sure. Feedback from other boat users is that kayaks are very hard to see especially with the sun behind you. Best to believe you are invisible in a world of racing elephants! But if you really want to see boat traffic try the Dardanelles! Best story I hard about big ships in the harbour was my friend Carol who raced on to the harbour very early one morning on her Sit on Top to watch a big US Naval ship coming in. As they passed the crew lined up along the side and saluted her one by one - made her day!! All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 13 13:18:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13030 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13019 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f46.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.46]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19038 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:17:00 -0700 Received: from 56.0.96.17 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:17:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [56.0.96.17] From: "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com> To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:17:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F4676UaiRNhFCfywEsG0000665d_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2001 20:17:00.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8D0C560:01C12434] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net A near miss with a fast-moving power boat in low visibility a few years ago led me to develop the following drill for use when a collision may be unavoidable:1. Turn to take on the oncoming vessel bow-to-bow.2. At the last moment, aim for a near miss on one side or the other. with even a few inches of clearance, the oncoming vessel's bow wave may be expected to push your hull aside.3. To avoid the real danger, which is an impact between your upper body and the outward-flared hull of the oncoming vessel, lean agressively AWAY from the other vessel, and expect to be flipped over by the bow wave. It's undignified and you'll get wet, but you should survive to tell the tale on Paddlewise. Folks, that's the so-far untested theory. I would welcome any suggested modifications. I do think that it is wise, if you paddle with fast-moving boat traffic, to have a simple plan to execute in a collision situation. Mike VandammMaryland, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 13 13:41:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21254 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21223 Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05197 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.100.25.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.100.25]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16663; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01c12438$b8bdcea0$1964f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com>, <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <F4676UaiRNhFCfywEsG0000665d_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:44:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am glad to see that Mike and are in agreement on this. I wrote a series of articles on Dealing With Traffic in my newsletter eons ago. They are replicated at http://www.seakayaker.com with my permission (the photos and illustrations have nothing to do with me). The evasive action that Mike also suggests you do is specifically on the page http://www.seakayaker.com/nav-1.htm Scroll down to the part that starts A Final Evasive Action and Turn Your Kayak Toward the Oncoming Boat. As with Mike, it is for me an untested theory but it sure beats being run over while perpendicular to the line of travel of the oncoming boat. ralph diaz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com> To: <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails > A near miss with a fast-moving power boat in low visibility a few years > ago led me to develop the following drill for use when a collision may be > unavoidable:1. Turn to take on the oncoming vessel bow-to-bow.2. At the > last moment, aim for a near miss on one side or the other. with even a > few inches of clearance, the oncoming vessel's bow wave may be expected > to push your hull aside.3. To avoid the real danger, which is an impact > between your upper body and the outward-flared hull of the oncoming > vessel, lean agressively AWAY from the other vessel, and expect to be > flipped over by the bow wave. It's undignified and you'll get wet, but > you should survive to tell the tale on Paddlewise. Folks, that's the > so-far untested theory. I would welcome any suggested modifications. I do > think that it is wise, if you paddle with fast-moving boat traffic, to > have a simple plan to execute in a collision situation. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 09:40:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05064 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05057 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14388 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7EGcdp30678 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:38:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07303 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26788 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22906 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sos.net (ip39.pm3-2.eli.du.nwlink.com [209.20.135.39]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04683 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B793627.2420B9C_at_sos.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:31:10 -0700 From: Paul Moorehead <pjm_at_sos.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,es-MX MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: [LABIRD-L] one oilman's view of ANWR (fwd)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paddlewisers, I know there are some birders in this group, maybe even an ornithologist or two, the following does have paddling content but that isn't the focus. Paul Dennis Paulson wrote: > > I know it's too late for the vote, but perhaps there are still ways to stop > the drilling. Here is a compelling report from one person. > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:16:36 -0500 > >From: Van Remsen <najames_at_unix1.sncc.lsu.edu> > >Reply-To: Bulletin Board for Dissemination of Information on Louisiana > > Birds <LABIRD-L_at_listserv.lsu.edu> > >To: LABIRD-L_at_listserv.lsu.edu > >Subject: [LABIRD-L] one oilman's view of ANWR > > > >LABIRD: FYI below; definitely worth a skim if you're interested in the > >fate of Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (where some of our Louisiana > >wintering birds presumably breed): > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:31:17 EDT > >From: GreatGrayO_at_aol.com > >Subject- ANWR > > > > > >I just got this narrative written by Mark Herndon. Mark is an oilman from > >Oklahoma who has worked with us for many years on our storm intercept > >projects as a volunteer. He just spent a month trekking ANWR... read what > >he has to say. Pass it on to your friends if you are so inclined. > > > >Erik Rasmussen > >Cooperative Institute for Mesoscale Meteorological Studies > >NSSL/OU > > > >Hi everyone, > > > >For those of you who don't know, I returned yesterday from a month alone > >in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in far northeastern Alaska. I'm > >really beat. I lost 25 lbs and basically feel like I have been beaten up. > >It was a really tough trip. > > > >I want to share a little bit about the place with you while it is still > >fresh in my mind; things that I feel are very important. I want to grab > >you by the lapels and tell you a few things that are true, because I have > >seen them. > > > >ANWR is probably the biggest chunk of absolute wilderness left in this > >country. I've also been in part of Gates of the Arctic National Park and > >Noatak National Preserve, two other large protected areas in the Brooks > >Range. ANWR is huge compared to those places; it's a place where you could > >walk your whole life and never see it all. Contrary to what you may have > >heard about the place in the media, it is not a vast wasteland. It is like > >heaven on earth, and hasn't been touched by man. There is not a single > >building, not a single trail, in an area that I've heard is about > >comparable to South Carolina. It's 19 million acres and there ain't no > >visitor center. > > > >Very few people go there. It is difficult and committing to get there. > >Since I have been there, and with the current political situation about > >ANWR's coastal plain, I emphatically want to tell you what it is like. And > >feel free to tell your friends. > > > >First, I paddled the Canning River, on the west side of the Refuge. I > >started up high in the glaciated Brooks Range and hiked for a few days. > >Craggy mountains and a two day snowstorm on the fourth of July. It looks > >wilder than the wildest part of Colorado without the trees. That part of > >the refuge is far north of treeline. > > > >As I floated down I saw gyrfalcons, peregrines and golden eagles. I saw > >musk ox and had a long, close encounter with a grizzly bear. Everywhere > >were tracks of caribou, muskox, grizzly, wolf and wolverine. > > > >I hiked up side valleys that were miles wide and absolutely flat tundra > >covered with lupines and arctic poppies. A close examination of the tundra > >reveals hundreds of tiny flowers and lichens. Everywhere were old caribou > >antlers and skulls poking up through the tundra. Wolf killed caribou > >skeletons also dot the tundra, often skulls with huge antlers attached. I > >saw more muskox, and managed to walk pretty close to some of them, before > >they got a little agitated. > > > >As I floated out of the mountains to the coastal plain I began to see > >caribou in earnest. More than you could ever count. It was like being in a > >herd in Africa. This is also where I came out of the wilderness part of > >the refuge and the river became the boundary between state land on the > >left (where oil exploration goes on) and ANWR on the right bank. On the > >state land I began to see many abandoned fuel drums and huge tracks on the > >tundra where cat trains shoot seismic in the winter. The tracks don't go > >away any time soon. I saw abandoned drums on the tundra constantly after a > >while over on the state land. > > > >As I crossed the coastal plain I saw many smaller caribou herds and began > >to see lots of birds; geese, ducks, tundra swans, and many strange types > >of birds that I have no idea what they were, probably migrating up from > >Hawaii or Chile to nest. > > > >All this time, I saw more and more garbage on the left bank. Most of the > >animals were on the right bank. In this day and age, I would think that > >BP-Amoco, Exxon, and Phillips would go clean all that crap up. > > > >I made my way to the delta of the river where it empties into the Beaufort > >Sea, and in a 2:00am lull in the wind paddled a roundabout 10 miles across > >the four mile lagoon to an island that is about 6 miles long. There were > >many small icebergs about thirty feet across. I saw old sod huts that the > >eskimos used to live in on the island, and found that the entire north > >side of the island was still fast against the sea ice which continues to > >somewhere in Russia, I guess. I walked out on it for a ways, and it is > >really rough. One day I watched ringed seals (polar bears staple food) > >sunning on the ice through binoculars. I saw a huge set of polar bear > >tracks around the lagoon side of the island, but they were pretty old. The > >island was just a few miles outside of the ANWR boundary, and Exxon had > >drilled a dry hole on it in the past two years. It was one of the > >filthiest locations I have ever seen in my 15 years working in the oil > >industry. I was really surprised, because Exxon drillsites in the lower 48 > >are usually the cleanest of them all. I was not impressed with what I saw > >of the oil industry in Alaska. > > > >Then my bush plane landed on a sandspit and took me to the headwaters of > >the Jago river, which is supposed to be one of the most beautiful places > >on earth. I spent ten days in this valley, hiking up to the glaciated > >peaks at it's headwaters. Part of the Porcupine caribou herd had gone > >south up the valley a couple of days before my arrival and there were > >millions of tracks, all heading south. Interspersed were the occasional > >wolf or grizzly track. I saw a few stray cow caribou, but the show had > >already moved south for the winter. > > > >On the Jago, I was trapped for two days waiting for a rain swollen river > >to come down so I could wade across. I fell in the same river on the way > >up, and wet gear up there is serious trouble because of the cold. The only > >way to describe this valley is to take the prettiest valley in Montana or > >Idaho and double it. It just took your breath away. It was so different > >that it may as well have been the moon. One night while I slept a grizzly > >walked by my tent. There was a set of fresh tracks there that weren't > >there the night before. He paid me no mind. > > > >Anyway, I was picked up on a gravel bar on the lower river and flown out > >to Kaktovik, on the coast. I heard there were nine white people in > >Kaktovik, but the Inupiat eskimos who live there were very nice people. > >You'd see someone cleaning a freshly killed bearded seal in the front yard > >of their house. A local hunter (they basically all hunt and whale) heard > >I'd been on the Canning and sought me out for skinny on where the caribou > >still were. From there, I made all of the flights home. > > > >Before I went to see ANWR for myself I already had some conceptions. After > >last year in Alaska I thought that modern oil exploration could be done > >responsibly. Certainly most Alaskans were for it. They got $1600 each last > >year from the north slope oil money. > > > >After seeing ANWR....seeing that coastal plain myself, I realized that > >there are a lot of lies being told about this place. It is not a vast > >wasteland. It is achingly beautiful, and if you value wild places, the > >refuge could be considered a sanctuary or a cathedral. To me, it was an > >intense experience far beyond what I expected. I have been going to wild > >places most of my life, but I have never been to a place like this. Not > >even close in the lower 48. > > > >There are a few places that are just not appropriate for large scale oil > >exploration. This place is far more fantastic than Yellowstone or Grand > >Teton, but it is far away and few care. > > > >If we put a bunch of drill pads on that coastal plain we will be making a > >terrible mistake. Our country will never again be energy independent > >anyway. Those numbers don't lie. Drilling in ANWR will only help about 4 > >major oil companies and the state of Alaska (which is completely addicted > >to the oil tit). The numbers don't lie. It will only make a few percent > >difference to the nation. > > > >The first morning back, I read in the paper that the House approved > >drilling in ANWR. I felt like crying. That coastal plain is very narrow, > >and the most environmentally sensitive exploration would put a giant blot > >on it. > > > >Most of you will never meet anyone else in your life who has actually been > >to ANWR. Fewer still who have crossed the coastal plain. I emphatically > >urge you to listen to what I am saying and take it into account as you > >form your own opinions. The vote to open ANWR still has to make it through > >the senate, and those of you in Oklahoma are wasting paper by writing to > >our senators; to those of you in other states, maybe you can help. > > > >And remember. I AM in the oil industry. I'm all for drilling in many, many > >places. Not here. The price is way too high. > > > >I can't emphasize enough how special this place is. I don't believe the > >promise that they will only disturb 2000 acres. When they get through > >shooting seismic in that place it will look like a chessboard from the > >air. It's kind of like a football field. 22 players standing on their feet > >probably occupy far less than 100 square feet of that football field. But > >they sure do make an impression. The coastal plain is the living part of > >the refuge. The rest is very mountainous and almost sterile by comparison. > >To go stomping on the coastal plain with a series of industrial sights is > >just too much. > > > >I don't want to have to say that I saw ANWR way back BEFORE it got all > >messed up. > > > >Thanks for listening (for those of you who made it through this). > > > >Mark Herndon > > Dennis Paulson, Director phone 253-879-3798 > Slater Museum of Natural History fax 253-879-3352 > University of Puget Sound e-mail dpaulson_at_ups.edu > Tacoma, WA 98416 > http://www.ups.edu/biology/museum/museum.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 10:36:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23900 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23895 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24558 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7EHabp31110 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:36:37 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07366 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108141744.KAA07366_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: [LABIRD-L] one oilman's view of ANWR (fwd)] X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Paul Moorehead <pjm_at_sos.net> > > Paddlewisers, > > I know there are some birders in this group, maybe even an ornithologist > or two, the following does have paddling content but that isn't the > focus. I tend to be skeptical of messages forwarded through email like this. There has been so much misinformation about ANWR including photos of wildlife claimed to have been taken from the region where the drilling will take place that actually were taken elsewhere. Snopes has a couple of entries regarding ANWR (for one urban legend see: http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/outrage/maps.htm ). A Google search on "Mark Herndon" has turned up references to a Petroleum Geologist and storm chaser (adventurer) from Oklahoma (see http://rossby.metr.ou.edu/~mbiddle/herndon.htm for reference to oil drilling and search Google for "Mark Herndon" for other links). This would appear to be the same individual. It would appear to me that permission to forward is granted with this message. Unlike many urban legend messages, this one does seem to come from real sources (at least, those who are forwarding it). However, until actually communicating with Mark Herndon, you might forward it but... caveat emptor. However, if this story is true (and, so far, it appears the source is legitimate) then I think it is an important message. I would have liked to have seen photos of these desecrated areas mentioned by Mark Herndon and would also be interested in a response to such photos from Exxon who (among other drillers) seems to want to impress upon us their "determination" in maintaining pristine wetlands, rivers, etc. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 11:12:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04974 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04939 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17491 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7EIAdp31161 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:10:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07400 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03560 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.de (mailout03.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.81]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15722 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15WicV-0001D9-03; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:08:51 +0200 Received: from ep (0412177219-0001_at_[217.87.107.104]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15WicJ-0AbCt6C; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:08:39 +0200 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:14:27 +0200 Message-ID: <01C124FD.B7F1FDA0.epfeffer_at_t-online.de> From: EPFEFFER_at_t-online.de (Eckart Pfeffer) To: "'PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Answer to "Rules of the Road" and Human Powered Craft (Rob) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:14:22 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0412177219-0001_at_t-dialin.net Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >Rob wrote: >Who do you assume is supposed to give way here, Steve and Mike or the yacht? >Power gives way to sail, but paddle power? Or do you give way to starboard? >This sort of thing definitely makes me nervous A sailing boat is depending on the wind. A human powered craft has the same manoeuvring capability as an engine powered boat. So please give way to the yacht. And please have in mind that kayakers paddling in waves are mostly undetectable. And nobody is expecting us far away from the shore. If you have to give way, do it porperly. Stop your kayak or alter course hardly (90 degress or more). To show clearly your intention will be recognized as "good seamenship". Best regards, Eckart epfeffer_at_t-online.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 13:41:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20039 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20011 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:40:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26655 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.3.) id i.3a.191fcd9a (16785); Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a.191fcd9a.28aae6b8_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:40:24 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) To: rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-13 09:20:40 EDT, rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au writes: << Best story I hard about big ships in the harbour was my friend Carol who raced on to the harbour very early one morning on her Sit on Top to watch a big US Naval ship coming in. As they passed the crew lined up along the side and saluted her one by one - made her day!! >> Peter, for one horrible moment I thought you were going to say they had mooned her! (do ozzies know what mooning is?) sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 14:43:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05398 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05393 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h011.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.217]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA03426 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (cpmta 11018 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 14:41:55 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com (HELO actglobal.net) (64.34.163.1) by smtp.telocity.com (209.228.33.217) with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:41:55 -0700 X-Sent: 14 Aug 2001 21:41:55 GMT Message-ID: <3B799B22.1010406_at_actglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:41:54 -0700 From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net> Reply-To: sh_at_actglobal.net Organization: Advanced Chemical Technology, LLC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, steveking2000_at_home.com Subject: [Paddlewise] Permission Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve, Could I have your permission to post your message about kayak visibility on our local kayak club's email list? I think the message is worth sharing. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 15:18:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14715 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14709 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h014.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.221]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26638 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (cpmta 25128 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 15:17:43 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO actglobal.net) (64.34.163.1) by smtp.telocity.com (209.228.33.221) with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 15:17:43 -0700 X-Sent: 14 Aug 2001 22:17:43 GMT Message-ID: <3B79A382.3050106_at_actglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:38 -0700 From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net> Reply-To: sh_at_actglobal.net Organization: Advanced Chemical Technology, LLC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, robm_at_udl.com Subject: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The "Rules" most definitely apply They apply on every navigable body of water. There is nothing in the Rules that gives a kayak or a sailboat the right of way. The "Rules" refer to vessels and by definition, a kayak is a vessel. In fact, if you have a narrow channel such as a harbor and a sailboat has a deep keel, it may be considered as "restricted in its ability to maneuver" and then the sailboat has right of way. Kayaks are NOT considered "restricted in their ability to maneuver" The only other references to right of way are that commercial ships in a designated shipping lane have the right of way over non-commercial traffic, and a vessel being overtaken has the right of way. Basically it boils down to the fact that each vessel is responsible to insure that it is not involved in a collision. There is a great write up about the "Rules" in Burch's book "Kayak Navigation". I hear a lot of beginners out here talk about the fact that kayaks have the right of way because we are paddle powered. That is totally false. According to our local Coast Guard Station, in the Los Angeles County/Ventura County area that I mainly paddle in, all of the waters outside of the breakwaters at the harbors follow the "Rules" and the Harbors all follow the "Inland Rules". This needs to be checked at each location. I know that in the Northwest, some areas that you think of as not Inland, still follow the "Inland Rules". The thing we really have to watch for with sailboats, is that depending on the angle of the sails, they may be restricted in their ability to see you--PLUS kayaks are hard to see anyway. As far as "the big fellows" are concerned, I would much rather paddle near a ship than a pleasure boater. The ships usually follow the "Rules" and are very predictable. The pleasure boaters are totally unpredictable and in my experience, most don't know the Rules. At the time that Mike and I were being run down, we were definitely giving way to the sailboat--it was bigger than us. Unfortuantely, every time we turned, the boat followed us. We usually watch the oncoming vessels, evaluate the "angle on the bow" and adjust course accordingly. We also switch to a very high angle paddle stroke so that our paddles become more visible, and even call the boats on Channel 16 when we are really nervous. Steve Holtzman BTW, the people I paddle with all use the Rule of Gross Tonnage. That rule states that any vessel larger than you automatically gets the right of way. ;-) Rob MacDonald wrote: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:18:54 -0700 From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> <mailto:robm_at_udl.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] "Rules of the Road" and Human Powered Craft Alllan wrote: >>Steve wrote; >> > On Saturday late afternoon fellow Paddlewiser Mike Brown and I > went out for > a short paddle. At one point I mentioned to Mike that there was > a sailboat > bearing down on us. It was aimed right at Mike. > Who do you assume is supposed to give way here, Steve and Mike or the yacht? Power gives way to sail, but paddle power? Or do you give way to starboard? This sort of thing definitely makes me nervous when on the water, but I have had the odd gin palace divert behind me as per the rules when in a port - starboard crossing situation.<< As I understand it, the Rules for the Prevention of Collision at Sea or the "Rules of the Road" do not apply to kayaks, canoes, rowboats, etc. They mention only sailboats and powered craft. There are some rules which apply to all craft, such as not impeding a larger vessel in narrow channels, and the overtaking rule (the overtaking vessel must keep clear). There is another over-riding rule, which is "do whatever is necessary to avoid a collision" but this only holds when at the last second, having done everything else possible to avoid collision, it is necessary to do something ouside the standard rules. If power boats give way to you properly, according to the Rules, they are doing so as a courtesy. Given the "not impeding" rule, and the tiny size of a kayak, they could probably argue this rule in many cases, anyway. I think Steve and Mike should have given way to the sailboat, as the sailboat had no duty to give way to the kayaks. Also. practically speaking, a kayak has full power in any direction like a powerboat, but a sailboat forced into an emergency maneuver may well lose speed and control. Of course, when meeting with other human powered craft, it makes sense to apply the Rules. After all, if they work for the big boats, they should work for us. Just don't count on them working for encounters between us and the big fellows. I was interested to read of Niels' experiences riding large vessel wakes. I used to do this on my Laser in Burrard Inlet, trying to hit the wa kes of the booze cruisers as close as possible to the stern, to get the biggest waves. Unfortunately, they often would take evasive action, giving me my right-of-way, leaving me too far from the waves, and on the wrong side relative to the wind for good surfing. Tugs were always very good about slowing when passing me in my rowboat, even though I would have welcomed the chance to surf my dory on their very energetic wakes. I think part of this may be just because they really don't know how capable the boat is, and they didn't want to risk having to come back to pick me up if it swamped or capsized. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 16:01:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28852 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28820 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26705 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7EN17p31672 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:01:07 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07712 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26213; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20351; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7EMq5p31655; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:52:05 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07685; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108142300.QAA07685_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net, gasp_at_lists.intelenet.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Safe Sailing With Spot X-Sun-Charset: ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi folks, A while back, Christina Mehra, a reporter for the online healthcare magazine called VetCentric, wrote me asking some general questions about boating with dogs (she found my "Paddling With Pooches" web page on the GASP web site). I told her that because different dogs have different reactions to being on a boat, she might want to ask a general audience of paddlers that have paddled with their canine companions. I invited her to send a query to both GASP and PaddleWise. Well, the article is out and I have included it below as well as the URL to the page (there is a photo of a pooch with a life vest on included with the article). The article does not distinguish between paddling and sailing pooches (some of us kayakers are referred to as sailors, but then... some of us sail our kayaks :-) but either way, taking your water-loving canine companion out on the water carries similar preparations and care. Some of you will recognize the names of a few of the contributers to Christina's article. I'd like to thank all those who contributed. Also, I have added a few more pictures to the Paddling Pooches Gallery. You can check them out at http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/poochgallery.html Check back as it is always growing. If anyone has a photo they would like to add to the PoochGaller, please send it on to me and I'll be happy to include your paddling pooch. The following is reprinted with permission: You can view the article at: http://www.vetcentric.com/magazine/magazineArticle.cfm?ARTICLE=Safe%20Sailing%20With%20Spot --------------------------- >From VetCentric.com Safe Sailing With Spot Written by: Christina Mehra, Staff Writer Summertime is almost here and for some water lovers, that means it's time to set sail. Seafaring pet owners may feel torn between spending a nice sunny day with Scruffy or going boating. Bringing the pets along can add to the fun, but it also means more preparation. When boating with a pet, be sure to take its food, water, emergency supplies, and an animal lifejacket. Why not do both? You can have the best of both worlds, say many pet-owning boat enthusiasts. While not all pets like the water, many can be trained to come along for the boat ride-and love it. "Neither the owner nor the pet is at home and bored," said Keith O'Leary of Seattle, Wash. "I've taken my westie out on Puget Sound with no problems whatsoever." Jennifer Weaver, hospital administrator at Greater Annapolis (Md.) Animal Hospital, often runs into pet owners outside the office on the Chesapeake Bay, which she explores with her own two dogs, a shepherd mix and a black lab. "They love it," she said. "I probably take them once a week." Bringing the animals along can add to the fun, but it also means more preparation. When boating with a pet, be sure to take its food, water, emergency supplies, and an animal lifejacket, experts said, particularly if the trip won't be brief. It is especially important that your pet have access to fresh drinking water, said Dr. Lisa Hoffman of Hoffman Animal Hospital, Annapolis, Md. Seasoned sailor Alice Ah Lo, of Tuttle, Okla., who has two cocker spaniels that accompany her on deck, agreed. "I would advise to keep your pets on the same diet they would be on at home and I give my animals the same water as I would drink," she said. "I have had to deal with my animals having Giardia and it is not a pleasant task. Plus when you pack a first aid kit, keep your pets in mind and pack for them as well," she cautioned. "Keep your pets safe and hydrated," Ms. Ah Lo added. "Don't let them get too hot." Dr. Hoffman also advised using netting around the edge of the deck to prevent "Pet Overboard!" scares. Also be sure to keep dogs and cats away from fishing line and fish hooks, which can both cause nasty accidents, she warned. But if your dog does fall overboard, there are precautions you can take to cut down on the risk of drowning. "Teach them how to swim," Dr. Hoffman said. Don't assume your dog knows how to do this automatically. Many companies now also manufacture special lifejackets specifically for dogs and cats. Even if your dog is a champion swimmer, it should still have a vest on in case it accidentally falls overboard and panics. Ms. Weaver said her dogs are great swimmers, as Labrador breeds tend to be, but they still wear life jackets just in case. "Get a good fit, something that's easy to see and a good grab hook so you can hoist the dog back onto the boat," Ms. Ah Lo said. "You don't want to have the animal slip out of the PFD [personal flotation device], and you want them to stay secure in it while you hoist them up by the jacket alone without injuring them or making them uncomfortable." Getting the dog used to wearing the life vest ahead of time is helpful, owners agreed. "Put the jacket on the animal at home and let the animal become accustomed to having the jacket on," Mr. O?Leary suggested. Beware of tying your dog to the boat, said Jackie Fenton, who kayaks in California with her westie, Mollie. "This would not be a good idea for a dog in a boat going down a river," Ms. Fenton warned. "I'm aware of a dog that was wearing a leash in a boat when the boat wiped out on the river and the pet's leash became entangled on something below water level and the pet drowned. A dog should be able to swim free in the event there is trouble." As romantic as the idea of a boat ride with your pet may sound, if Spot doesn't have sea legs, you need to respect its desire to stay on land. Remember that older dogs with arthritis will not appreciate riding on bumpy speedboats. "Keep the dog's comfort in mind," Dr. Hoffman said. While she agreed that not all dogs will share their owners' love for boating, Ms. Ah Lo said many pets can be trained to accept life away from land. "I think any dog can be taught to 'tolerate' boats. Some dogs just take to the water more so than others," she explained. "Part of that is breeding, but most of it is personal to the dog. Some people like water, some don't; same with dogs. You can tell by their excitement level and how much they are ready to do that again. For example, if I start messing with my boats and paddles, and they go jump in the van and won't get out, that's a clue." Introducing the dog to boating at the right age can be a factor in its water-readiness, as Chris Kuhlman of Seabrook, Texas, learned the hard way. Mr. Kuhlman took his border collie, Shade, on her first boat ride when she was six months old, and the dog has been wary of the water ever since. "She was timid but curious until the motor boat got up to speed and hit some rough water. At that point, she wanted nothing to do with it and jumped out of the boat, [which was] going about 15 miles per hour," he said. "She swam to a platform and waited for me to come get her. Since then, if I even say the word "boat" she tucks her tail and rolls over. She is frightened to death of the whole boating thing. She won't come near my motor boat, sail boat or even the kayak, even though she swims almost every day." Unlike Mr. Kuhlman, Ms. Weaver took the time to get her dogs used to boating. The first time her dogs went on the boat, they took a short trip to shallow water and then Ms. Weaver let them get off the boat to explore. "They could stand where they were," which made them feel safe, she explained. That first day she added, "they were in heaven," and actually whined to get back in the water when it was time to head home. If you plan to take your dog on a motor boat or speed boat, or anything noisy, make sure it gets used to the new sounds. Since her dogs were used to swimming and being near boats, Ms. Weaver said, "the sounds didn't bother them." If your dog or cat gets seasick on its first trip, that doesn't mean boating should be banned, Dr. Hoffman said. The key is to keep the experience brief and positive, until the pet is used to boating. It may get over the nausea after a few trips, she said. If not, your veterinarian may be able to give the animal medication for the seasickness. "I think any dog can be taught to 'tolerate' boats. Some dogs just take to the water more so than others," Ms. Ah Lo said. There is a good reason why people want to bring their pets everywhere they go, including aboard ship, Ms. Ah Lo said. "Our pets are our friends and companions, they keep us company. They sometimes even keep us warm - but they somehow keep us grounded and real. To me, the benefits of love, friendship, camaraderie with some connection closer to nature than our own is vital." feedback_at_vetcentric.com Copyright © 2001 VetCentric, Inc. All Rights Reserved *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 16:02:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29488 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29483 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f93.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.93]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28190 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:02:32 -0700 Received: from 24.45.212.25 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:02:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.45.212.25] From: "Paul Raymond" <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com> To: sh_at_actglobal.net, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net, robm_at_udl.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:02:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F93VniSnRMWuLn5U9T300009083_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2001 23:02:32.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[33249160:01C12515] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net After looking around on the net for the answer to this question, now I am definitely nervous. It looks like a 50/50 split, and is independent of whether the site has an interest one way or the other. Here is one entry from a sailing school unrelated to the one I go to: * Hierarchy of power: A disabled craft has the right of way over a human powered craft like a kayak which has the right of way over a wind powered craft which has the right of way over a motor driven craft. source: http://www.strawberry.org/castaff/Curriculum/sailhandout.html >I hear a lot of beginners out here talk about the fact that kayaks have >the right of way because we are paddle powered. That is totally false. My sailing school (Longshore Sailing School in Westport, CT) teaches that the human powered boat is at the top of the pyramid (except for boats restricted in a channel). They teach this in their Connecticut Safe Boating Course, as well as their intermediate sailing course. After reading Steve's reply I must question what I was taught. If there are a lot of misinformed beginners out there, it is because of what we have been taught. >From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net> >Reply-To: sh_at_actglobal.net >To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, robm_at_udl.com >Subject: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road >Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:17:38 -0700 > > The "Rules" most definitely apply They apply on every navigable body >of water. There is nothing in the Rules that gives a kayak or a sailboat >the right of way. The "Rules" refer to vessels and by definition, a >kayak is a vessel. In fact, if you have a narrow channel such as a >harbor and a sailboat has a deep keel, it may be considered as >"restricted in its ability to maneuver" and then the sailboat has right >of way. Kayaks are NOT considered "restricted in their ability to maneuver" > >The only other references to right of way are that commercial ships in a >designated shipping lane have the right of way over non-commercial >traffic, and a vessel being overtaken has the right of way. > >Basically it boils down to the fact that each vessel is responsible to >insure that it is not involved in a collision. There is a great write up >about the "Rules" in Burch's book "Kayak Navigation". > >I hear a lot of beginners out here talk about the fact that kayaks have >the right of way because we are paddle powered. That is totally false. >According to our local Coast Guard Station, in the Los Angeles >County/Ventura County area that I mainly paddle in, all of the waters >outside of the breakwaters at the harbors follow the "Rules" and the >Harbors all follow the "Inland Rules". This needs to be checked at each >location. I know that in the Northwest, some areas that you think of as >not Inland, still follow the "Inland Rules". > >The thing we really have to watch for with sailboats, is that depending >on the angle of the sails, they may be restricted in their ability to >see you--PLUS kayaks are hard to see anyway. > >As far as "the big fellows" are concerned, I would much rather paddle >near a ship than a pleasure boater. The ships usually follow the "Rules" >and are very predictable. The pleasure boaters are totally unpredictable >and in my experience, most don't know the Rules. At the time that Mike >and I were being run down, we were definitely giving way to the >sailboat--it was bigger than us. Unfortuantely, every time we turned, >the boat followed us. We usually watch the oncoming vessels, evaluate >the "angle on the bow" and adjust course accordingly. We also switch to >a very high angle paddle stroke so that our paddles become more visible, >and even call the boats on Channel 16 when we are really nervous. > >Steve Holtzman >BTW, the people I paddle with all use the Rule of Gross Tonnage. That >rule states that any vessel larger than you automatically gets the right >of way. ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 16:49:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12068 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12063 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au (genesis.amsa.gov.au [203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28365 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex4.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.252.18]) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09556; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:45:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex4.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:48:54 +1000 Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:48:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: <F1B97BED8668D34EAE8B75BBA5DF4210016863_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) Thread-Index: AcElA3v6OLRgEafySVeh6BjbWT3zZQAGBF8Q From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Aug 2001 23:48:55.0086 (UTC) FILETIME=[ADA76CE0:01C1251B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id QAA12064 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net (do ozzies know what mooning is?) sandy kramer Yes we have seen Grease and Point Break *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 17:17:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20865 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20857 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c007.snv.cp.net (c007-h000.c007.snv.cp.net [209.228.33.206]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17699 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (cpmta 8579 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 17:14:58 -0700 Received: from dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com (HELO actglobal.net) (64.34.163.1) by smtp.telocity.com (209.228.33.206) with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 17:14:58 -0700 X-Sent: 15 Aug 2001 00:14:58 GMT Message-ID: <3B79BF02.3060608_at_actglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:14:58 -0700 From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net> Reply-To: sh_at_actglobal.net Organization: Advanced Chemical Technology, LLC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Raymond <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net, robm_at_udl.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road References: <F93VniSnRMWuLn5U9T300009083_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Paul, There are local rules that may apply where you are paddling. The "Rules" are international and apply to navigable waters. This way a captain of a vessel from Chile will know how to drive his vessel when he sails to London, New York, Hong Kong, etc. The Rules do not apply to lakes, rivers, streams, etc. If my memory serves me correctly, there is an anecdote in Burch's book about a car and a rowboat collision. The car was traversing a flooded road (it was flooded by a navigable river subject to The Rules) and the car was deemed to have been limited in its ability to maneuver so the rowboat skipper was at fault. IMHO your best bet is to give everyone else the right of way. Steve Paul Raymond wrote: > After looking around on the net for the answer to this question, now I > am definitely nervous. It looks like a 50/50 split, and is independent > of whether the site has an interest one way or the other. Here is one > entry from a sailing school unrelated to the one I go to: > > * Hierarchy of power: A disabled craft has the right of way over a > human powered craft like a kayak which has the right of way over a > wind powered craft which has the right of way over a motor driven craft. > > source: > http://www.strawberry.org/castaff/Curriculum/sailhandout.html > >> I hear a lot of beginners out here talk about the fact that kayaks have >> the right of way because we are paddle powered. That is totally false. > > > My sailing school (Longshore Sailing School in Westport, CT) teaches > that the human powered boat is at the top of the pyramid (except for > boats restricted in a channel). They teach this in their Connecticut > Safe Boating Course, as well as their intermediate sailing course. > After reading Steve's reply I must question what I was taught. If > there are a lot of misinformed beginners out there, it is because of > what we have been taught. > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 17:52:00 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03360 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03342 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09620 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7F0pUp31818 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:51:30 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07827 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27163 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00178 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-220.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.220]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA20108 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:33:53 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <000701c12522$3f63b7a0$dcd0150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: [LABIRD-L] one oilman's view of ANWR (fwd)] Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:58:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I know we are off topic here but thanks Paul for sharing this. Many of us in Alaska are opposed to drilling ANWR because we saw the enviornmental destruction of the wells at Prudhol Bay and the pipline. Not to mention what the Exxon Valdez did to Prince William Sound! Bob in Alasaka -----Original Message----- From: Paul Moorehead <pjm_at_sos.net> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] [Fwd: [LABIRD-L] one oilman's view of ANWR (fwd)] >Paddlewisers, > >I know there are some birders in this group, maybe even an ornithologist >or two, the following does have paddling content but that isn't the >focus. > >Paul *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 18:41:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17938 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17904 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10646 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wesboyd (d17.as1.adsn.mi.voyager.net [209.153.147.82]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f7F1e6K39350; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010814214933.47e72ee2_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:49:33 To: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au>, <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) In-Reply-To: <F1B97BED8668D34EAE8B75BBA5DF4210016863_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 09:48 AM 8/15/01 +1000, Whyte, David wrote: >(do ozzies know what mooning is?) > >sandy kramer > >Yes we have seen Grease and Point Break I'm still not quite sure what a "hoon" is, though. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 18:45:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19336 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19327 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (callisto.net.voyager.co.nz [203.21.30.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14617 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dialup (ip45.net.voyager.co.nz [203.110.16.45]) by callisto.net.voyager.co.nz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA19010 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:45:28 +1200 (NZST) From: "Allan and Joyce Singleton" <alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:43:51 +1200 Message-ID: <NEBBKFEMBLGOMPJPJOCFMEKACIAA.alsjfs_at_voyager.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B79BF02.3060608_at_actglobal.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve Holtzman wrote > > There are local rules that may apply where you are paddling. The "Rules" > are international and apply to navigable waters. This way a captain of a > vessel from Chile will know how to drive his vessel when he sails to > London, New York, Hong Kong, etc. The Rules do not apply to lakes, > rivers, streams, etc. > I think that local rules will generally follow the international regulations, and only make minimal changes as appropriate. Here we have the Motor Launch Regulations based on the international ones, and also applying to navigable lakes and rivers. They add extra rules for things like water skiing, speed limits close to swimmers etc. International regulations say that a power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of - (i) A vessel not under command; (ii) A vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre; (iii) A vessel engaged in fishing; (iv) A sailing vessel A sailing vessel has to keep out of the way of the three above her, and so on. A power driven vessel is defined as any vessel propelled by machinery. Human powered vessels, despite having been in existence longer than any other type, are not defined in the regulations, and this is the basis of our problem in give way situations. My assumption is that, as we do not qualify as sailing vessels or any of the classes higher up, we rank with or below power vessels. Possibly with in law, but you may survive longer by assuming below. Allan Singleton Hamilton NZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 14 20:13:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18058 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18052 Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08845 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from storefull-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net (storefull-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.68]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 862951463 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production_at_localhost) by storefull-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/mt.gso.26Feb98) id UAA10012; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAk8ojR7+61Q6wWwycxakoPNoF2RICFQCrCLHdJKpNeUfnL7jl/UPQNWNZ9A== From: pambrowning_at_webtv.net (Pam Browning) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:12:43 -0400 (EDT) To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Martha's Vineyard regatta Message-ID: <23770-3B79E8AB-1494_at_storefull-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Eleventh annual Martha's Vineyard Oar & Paddle regatta, Sunday, August 26th., Oak Bluffs MA, 10am. Four mile race for kayaks, canoes & rowboats. $20 includes tshirt & picnic lunch. Contact pambrowning_at_webtv.net for more info. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 00:15:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01256 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01245 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11526 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.171] (node1feab.a2000.nl [24.132.254.171]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f7F7ElE19925 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:14:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330109b79e4d418fea_at_[24.132.254.171]> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:39:25 -0500 To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Cleaning Off that Hull Gunk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hey 'wisers, had a question relayed on to me. Anyone have a good solution to cleaning kayak saddle marks off fiberglass hulls? When they Yakima saddles get older (or in my case, covered in duct tape), they leave behind an unattractive smudge that makes the boat that much harder to sell. Acetone? Thinner? 30 grit sandpaper? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 00:15:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01257 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01251 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host4.globalnameservers.com (host4.globalnameservers.com [209.239.40.63]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11530 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [24.132.254.171] (node1feab.a2000.nl [24.132.254.171]) by host4.globalnameservers.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f7F7EmE19929; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:14:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p04330105b79f98247f5b_at_[24.132.254.171]> In-Reply-To: <20010812053645.359.qmail_at_web11201.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010812053645.359.qmail_at_web11201.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:39:20 -0500 To: Tom <tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com>, Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Where Is Proper Place To Carry Flares Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I carry flares, a smoke grenade, an emergency energy bar, a signal mirror and a space blanket inside a Naglene bottle that is stored inside a kneetube in one of my boat, and lashed in the cockpit in the others. I realize there is a disadvantage if one is separated from the boat, but otherwise it is a great way to carry emergency stuff without having to think about it. -Patrick At 10:36 PM -0700 8/11/01, Tom wrote: >Where would you recommend one carry flares? Is the front >pocket of a PFD OK? If so, would you prefer face up, or >face down. Are there any incidents of spontaneous flare >ignition? I carry 2 Orion Star Tracers in the front pocket >of my PFD face down. --TomBrooklyn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 03:44:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05194 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05189 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22203 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.97.69.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.97.69]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA30422; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c12577$9162ed00$4561f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <nyckayaker_at_envirolink.org> Cc: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, <cpakayaker_at_lists.shire.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Daily News triathlon headline: Kayakers Save The Day Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:46:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, All Today's New York Daily News has an article about the role the kayakers paid at the barge in saving swimmers in the NYC Triathlon this past Sunday. It is by Jerry Kenney, who, at 76 years of age was the oldest triathlete in the race. Jerry lauds what Abigail Kinney of Manhattan Kayak Co. did for him and many others at the dangerous point in the race when swimmers were being pinned against the barge. Here is the URL describing what he saw when he was among those saved by her: http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-08-15/Metro_Sports/Other_Sports/a-121879.asp He called me on the phone last night after speaking with Abigail (she gave him my name to fill him in on where we get our kayakers who support this and other swims and other details). He couldn't stop talking about what she did at that pivotal moment. He kept calling her a hero. His account in the newspaper is gripping reading. There are slight factual errors that come with Jerry's rushing to meet a deadline. One big one which I know Bonnie Aldinger (also of Manhattan Kayak) would want me to correct is that Bonnie was not at the finish line. She was up at the start line, where she and Jack Gilman of the Yonkers Rowing and Paddling Club were coordinating one of the 3 Sections of the course we had divided our kayaker coverage for the race. (Each section consisted of a dozen kayakers responsible for roughly one-third the length of the course. We also had an End Group at the finish line that Abigail led and a Roamer Group of 3 guys on surf ski kayaks who among other things caught swimmers who were swept past the finish line). In Section 1, Bonnie and the others had their hands full protecting the swimmers from running into the mooring field and into a large treacherous mooring ball that was submerged just below the surface by the swift current. But the article got it right about Abigail, although it barely captures the awe and praise the author had for Abigail when talking on the phone. She certainly deserves a medal. I have said this before but it bears repeating, you all performed a terrific service for the swimmers on Sunday as you do every time we support them on the water at the regular nycswim events. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 05:03:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA29283 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29278 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from border3.henryford.cc.mi.us (border3.henryford.cc.mi.us [198.109.96.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10687; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon_at_localhost) by border3.henryford.cc.mi.us (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f7FC2Mf21114; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:02:22 -0400 Received: from ngw.hfcc(10.0.0.13), claiming to be "ngw" via SMTP by border3.hfcc, id smtpdTZ51sI; Wed Aug 15 08:02:21 2001 Received: from HFCC-MTA by ngw with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:02:14 -0400 Message-Id: <sb7a2c86.028_at_ngw> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:01:57 -0400 From: "Dan Harrison" <DHARRISN_at_hfcc.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>, <paddlewise-digest_at_lists.intelenet.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ozzie moon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I never doubted that ozzies would be familiar with the concept, but knowing their predilection for unique and colorful language, I'd be surprised if they didn't have their own term for it. "Southern Cross Buns," perhaps? Dan At 09:48 AM 8/15/01 +1000, Whyte, David wrote: >(do ozzies know what mooning is?) > >sandy kramer > >Yes we have seen Grease and Point Break *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 05:40:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09375 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09342 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asa1.asan.com (asa1.asan.com [206.20.111.11]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01553 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:40:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.113.83.37] by asa1.asan.com (NTMail 4.30.0013/NT4321.00.31f8ddab) with ESMTP id vjtspaaa for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c12586$e37ab640$255371cf_at_ms049564> From: "Christine Allison" <sailnut_at_asan.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, "Patrick Maun" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> References: <p04330109b79e4d418fea_at_[24.132.254.171]> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Cleaning Off that Hull Gunk Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:36:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Use soft acrub and a sponge. Wet the hull, squirt on and rub lightly. Flush with plenty of water. Richard Smith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 06:36:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA27184 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27179 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from border3.henryford.cc.mi.us (border3.henryford.cc.mi.us [198.109.96.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07715 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon_at_localhost) by border3.henryford.cc.mi.us (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f7FDZxb23776 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:35:59 -0400 Received: from ngw.hfcc(10.0.0.13), claiming to be "ngw" via SMTP by border3.hfcc, id smtpdOoYt1D; Wed Aug 15 09:35:49 2001 Received: from HFCC-MTA by ngw with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:35:47 -0400 Message-Id: <sb7a4273.014_at_ngw> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:35:09 -0400 From: "Dan Harrison" <DHARRISN_at_hfcc.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ozzie moon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I never doubted that ozzies would be familiar with the concept, but knowing their predilection for unique and colorful language, I'd be surprised if they didn't have their own term for it. "Southern Cross Buns," perhaps? Dan At 09:48 AM 8/15/01 +1000, Whyte, David wrote: >(do ozzies know what mooning is?) > >sandy kramer > >Yes we have seen Grease and Point Break *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 06:46:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00458 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00451 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13860 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09190; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010815085022.02fa2e40_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:45:40 -0400 To: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>, "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com>, <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails In-Reply-To: <000a01c12438$b8bdcea0$1964f6d1_at_rdiaz> References: <F4676UaiRNhFCfywEsG0000665d_at_hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:44 PM 8/13/01 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: >I am glad to see that Mike and are in agreement on this. I wrote a series >of articles on Dealing With Traffic in my newsletter eons ago. They are >replicated at http://www.seakayaker.com with my permission (the photos and >illustrations have nothing to do with me). The evasive action that Mike >also suggests you do is specifically on the page >http://www.seakayaker.com/nav-1.htm > >Scroll down to the part that starts A Final Evasive Action and Turn Your >Kayak Toward the Oncoming Boat. Good stuff, as always, however I wanted to comment on a section earlier in the article. Specifically, in regards to the following: "If you can see equal sides of a boat on both sides of its bow's centerline, you are likely to be hit. If the sides are unequal it is likely to be a miss." While the first sentence is certainly accurate I have a quibble with the second. There still is the possibility of a collision even if your courses are 90 degrees apart Quite a few years ago I had a roommate that had a 28' sailboat and I went out with him quite a few times onto the busy San Francisco bay. He told me of another trick that one can use to tell if you might be on a collision course. If you're in a situation where you can see equal sides of a boat on both sides of it's bows centerline you're in the boats path. However, most of the boat traffic you'll see won't be coming right at you, but your courses will often intersect. Making sure that your courses don't cross such that you're both going to occupy the same space where the courses intersect will avoid a collision. Whenever you see a vessel, even if you only see one side of the boat, look at the bow and find the spot on the horizon it lines up with. Watch the relation of that spot with the bow of the boat over the course of several seconds as you continue on your course. Assuming that the boat you're watching is off to your left, if the bow of the boat is moving to the right of the spot on the horizon you identified, the boat will pass in front of you. If it's moving to the left, it will pass behind you. If the bow remains at the same spot you're on a collision course. Using this method it's pretty easy to alter your course just a little so that the spot on the horizon is moving away from the boat one way or another. It's a good idea to frequently check again in case the boats course or speed changes. Using this method you can avoid getting in the path of another vessel by making course or speed changes while the boat is still a long ways off. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 06:57:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03820 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03814 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (www02.pod02.corp.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.107]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20340 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([203.134.36.14]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3571); Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:56:53 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "Peter Osman" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:52:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c12591$7697ccb0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Aug 2001 13:56:53.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[23C2DAB0:01C12592] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Sandy, David and Wes wrote >(do ozzies know what mooning is?) >Yes we have seen Grease and Point Break >I'm still not quite sure what a "hoon" is, though. G'Day Carol, David and Wes (and Paddlewise) Not sure about mooning but I think it occurs at cricket matches - I'm looking forward to seeing a cricket match one day, also Grease and Point Break, which I am told were very popular movies. A hoon is a hooligan or tearaway. For example being booked for speeding in a no wash zone at 10 miles an hour in a kayak would be behaving like a hoon. One day I hope to become a hoon:~) All the best, PeterO Who also helps with the Paddlewise Who's Who List so if you need to add an entry or make a modification my email address is rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 07:01:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06225 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06187 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23495 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.246.97.82.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.246.97.82]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA00844; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901c12593$397873a0$5261f6d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com>, <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>, "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> References: <F4676UaiRNhFCfywEsG0000665d_at_hotmail.com> <5.0.1.4.2.20010815085022.02fa2e40_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:04:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Fereira" <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> To: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>; "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com>; <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Collision Avoidance When All Els Fails > At 04:44 PM 8/13/01 -0400, ralph diaz wrote: > >I am glad to see that Mike and are in agreement on this. I wrote a series > >of articles on Dealing With Traffic in my newsletter eons ago. They are > >replicated at http://www.seakayaker.com with my permission (the photos and > >illustrations have nothing to do with me). The evasive action that Mike > >also suggests you do is specifically on the page > >http://www.seakayaker.com/nav-1.htm > > > >Scroll down to the part that starts A Final Evasive Action and Turn Your > >Kayak Toward the Oncoming Boat. > > Good stuff, as always, however I wanted to comment on a section earlier > in the article. Specifically, in regards to the following: > > "If you can see equal sides of a boat on both sides of its bow's > centerline, you are likely to be hit. If the sides are unequal it is likely > to be a miss." > > While the first sentence is certainly accurate I have a quibble with the > second. There still is the possibility of a collision even if your courses > are 90 degrees apart > > Quite a few years ago I had a roommate that had a 28' sailboat and I went > out with him quite a few times onto the busy San Francisco bay. He told me > of another trick that one can use to tell if you might be on a collision > course. > If you're in a situation where you can see equal sides of a boat on both > sides of it's bows centerline you're in the boats path. However, most of > the boat traffic you'll see won't be coming right at you, but your courses > will often intersect That is true. But relative speeds play an important role. Since we are moving at anywhere from one-eight to one-half the speed of other traffic it will be a miss. That is unless you are talking about another kayaker :-) Also you would have to be pretty dumb to keep going with that same angle into a collision. The point of the statement is that I see people frightened when a motorboat comes their way. So my statement is more to state that than collision avoidance. ralph *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 09:30:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21000 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20990 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28141 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FGTJp01445 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:29:19 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08182 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01780 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:58:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14377 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-250.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.250]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7F8wbZ20346 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:58:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3B7A39BA.90080B58_at_prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:58:34 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/14/schools.of.sharks/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 10:03:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00640 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00635 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17987 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wes (d92.as0.hdsn.mi.voyager.net [216.93.83.221]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f7FGxhK21078; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010815130105.651ffb50_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:01:05 To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>, "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] my friend Carol and the US...(was visibility...) In-Reply-To: <000001c12591$7697ccb0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 11:52 PM 8/15/01 +1000, Peter Osman wrote: > >G'Day Carol, David and Wes (and Paddlewise) > >A hoon is a hooligan or tearaway. Something like a yahoo, huh? >For example being booked for speeding in a >no wash zone at 10 miles an hour in a kayak would be behaving like a hoon. >One day I hope to become a hoon:~) Absolutely. One of my goals in kayaking is to get busted for leaving a wake. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 11:49:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04786 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04781 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01999 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FIlhp01659 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:47:43 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08318 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04242 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29422 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FIgSp01644 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:42:28 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08305 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108151850.LAA08305_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/14/schools.of.sharks/index.html Here's another one that shows a map of the area: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-814sharks.story I've heard the above described as unusual behavior and then I've heard that it's normal behavior for sharks following the fish they feed on. There is still much to learn about shark behavior. I would like to clarify in case there is any confusion regarding my message last week... sharks are not a forbidden topic on PaddleWise. It's just that I don't see PaddleWise as a shark attack reporting medium any more than I see it as a speed boat crash reporting medium. If the speeding boat crashes into a kayak, that's PaddleWiseworthy news. I also don't want to give the impression that sharks are never a concern for kayakers. However, I would like to keep it into perspective. Useful information such as the above (meaning, it's probably not a good idea to paddle a kayak in this area among hundreds of sharks of different species, some of them apparently very large and possibly including bulls and tigers) can be helpful. We need to learn to respect sharks and their home environment. Now, if one comes to my front door, knocks and bites me when I answer, that's a whole different ball game.... Cheers, Jackie || "KNOCK KNOCK" || || _..._ ,-----, || ,,___,~~~~"""' `"v" ' || <, ~_at_ / || `vvvvvvvv, )))) / || ^^^^^^" ; || `~~~~~~, \ ( || .------'' ,) \ | / || ". ,/ ; | / || "--_ / : / / ||=() / \ __/ / || | ___[__}___ || | | | || | | Land | || \ | Shark | || \ `----------' || `. / || `, ( /} || `-__ \/ } || ) / ||___________ / ( |jf__________|___________'~'' ||_______________________|______________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 12:27:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17076 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17071 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28385 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FJPmp01717 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:25:48 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08356 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07862 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09031 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CraigMacKinnon (user-2ivf7a8.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.157.72]) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15204 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004a01c125bb$15182320$489df7a5_at_CraigMacKinnon> From: "Craig MacKinnon" <elroca_at_earthlink.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B7A39BA.90080B58_at_prodigy.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:49:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Anyone watching shark week on Discovery? Sunday night featured incredible footage of Great Whites breaching the surface just off seal island to hit anything that remotely resembled a seal silhouette. Circumnavigating seal island in a kayak within the "ring of death" would undoubtedly be suicidal and hammer home the meaning of the term "White Death". Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:58 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/08/14/schools.of.sharks/index.html > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 14:34:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27733 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27728 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22830 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FLW5p01884 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:32:05 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08470 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21973 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12381 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id OAA01487; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010815170307.00bac3e8_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:17:31 -0400 To: "Craig MacKinnon" <elroca_at_earthlink.net> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sharks Cc: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <004a01c125bb$15182320$489df7a5_at_CraigMacKinnon> References: <3B7A39BA.90080B58_at_prodigy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net One of the last times I paddled San Francisco Bay, last fall before I moved to New England, the sharks were out in good numbers. These were small leopard sharks and brown sharks. The books indicate that these are generally not more than 4-5 feet long ... But I can tell you that paddling solo through the shallow waters, seeing the fins protruding from the water, seeing them hit small fish, is a little un-nerving at moments. You know logically that they couldn't do much to you, but nonetheless, they are out there. At one point I had moved out of a school of small sharks and was paddling along homeward when my paddle hit something firm. Yes, I was doing the "leopard shark brace." I've done the same to bat rays, which live in the same waters and are technically sharks. After ticking off that little shark, again I paddled through waters free of activity, until I reached the mouth of the Coyote River at the extreme south end of the Bay. There was one last shark to get by, larger than any other that I've seen in the shallow south Bay. He was circling like a sentry and I could almost hear him mutter, "None shall pass." I did pass; it was about 4-1/2 feet long, which is a very good size for this variety. Luckily small leopard sharks and brown sharks have no appetite (or sufficiently great mandibles) for wooden kayaks and I arrived at the dock safe again. -jerry. At 02:49 PM 8/15/2001 -0400, Craig MacKinnon wrote: >Anyone watching shark week on Discovery? Sunday night featured incredible >footage of Great Whites breaching the surface just off seal island to hit >anything that remotely resembled a seal silhouette. Circumnavigating seal >island in a kayak within the "ring of death" would undoubtedly be suicidal >and hammer home the meaning of the term "White Death". >Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 14:50:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01502 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01496 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:48:49 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03091 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.3.) id e.c1.125afa6b (25098) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c1.125afa6b.28ac483b_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:48:43 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Cleaning Off that Hull Gunk To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/15/01 3:18:20 AM, patrick_at_patrickmaun.com writes: << had a question relayed on to me. Anyone have a good solution to cleaning kayak saddle marks off fiberglass hulls? When they Yakima saddles get older (or in my case, covered in duct tape), they leave behind an unattractive smudge that makes the boat that much harder to sell. Acetone? Thinner? 30 grit sandpaper? >> Softscrub and 409 works every time. 303 and it won't mark up so quickly, for a few weeks at least <G>. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 15:15:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10028 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10012 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:11:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19486 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (h-64-105-22-24.miatflad.covad.net [64.105.22.24]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7FMBp330896 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:11:51 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c125d7$4922d360$91fdfea9_at_oemcomputer> From: "Kevin Kenney" <kmkenney_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Tupperware dents Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:11:50 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Internet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hello all, Looking for advice on fixing a plastic kayak that now has a couple of BIG dents where it lay on a stand in the too hot Florida sun. I'm thinking of letting it bake for another day and trying to pound out the dents (I've heard that these boats often have a "memory", but this one appears to have lost it), or maybe using a hairdryer to soften the plastic and then pounding them out. This just happened over the last two days, as the boat was fine when I paddled it on Monday. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Kevin Kenney *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 15:50:48 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20001 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19996 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vision.net.au (root_at_mail.ltn.eftel.com [203.17.23.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13169 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (nas3-30.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.125]) by vision.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id IAA03372 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:48:47 +1000 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.ltn.eftel.com: Host nas3-30.ltn.eftel.com [202.168.120.125] claimed to be oemcomputer Message-ID: <002101c125dd$ab1ba3c0$7d78a8ca_at_oemcomputer> From: "Wilky" <carrot_at_vision.net.au> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <sb7a4273.014_at_ngw> Subject: [Paddlewise] Ozzie moon Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:57:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Nothing as nice as Southern Cross Buns. The colour brown and an eye come to mind. Cheers Wilky >From Tasmania. > I never doubted that ozzies would be familiar with the concept, but > knowing their predilection for unique and colorful language, I'd be > surprised if they didn't have their own term for it. "Southern Cross > Buns," perhaps? > Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 16:59:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12680 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12674 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29211 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FNvHp02139 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:57:17 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08680 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05784 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15612 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7FNYwp02103 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:34:58 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08663 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:42:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108152342.QAA08663_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Florida in legal fight over shark fishing X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This is an interesting article which discusses both sides of the shark conservation/fishing debate. There is also a link to a gallery of photos titled "A day of shark fishing" (right hand margin). http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-csharks812.story?coll=sfla%2Dnews%2Dflorida Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 15 17:39:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25680 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25675 Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:37:43 -0700 (PDT) From: WildConect_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25228 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WildConect_at_aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.3.) id e.30.194cb2dd (3868); Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:37:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30.194cb2dd.28ac6fc8_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:37:28 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Cleaning Off that Hull Gunk To: JSpinner_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 109 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My Yakima system is at least 8 or 9 years old and remains on the car year round as I paddle 12 months a year, even here on Lake Michigan--see the photos at www.wildernessconnection.com. I got tired of the smudges from the saddles and rollers smearing my Romany, so I cleaned them a couple of months ago with Goo-Gone, then applied 303 protectant to them. Cleaned up like new! And after a couple of months still lookin' gooood. John Browning www.wildernessconnection.com Milwaukee, Wisconsin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 01:06:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18831 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18826 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03086 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <QQ3NB29K>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:04:14 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A033_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Tupperware dents Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 04:06:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My boat ( a Prijon Seayak) does indeed have a memory, but it can take hours or days for a dent to disappear. Maybe patience is all you need. If not: A hairdryer is not hot enough to soften the plastic. I think hot water has a better chance (You could try to lay the boat on a flat surface, fill it up with hot tap water and leave it overnight). For modifications on my boats, I have a kind of hairdryer meant to strip off paint. Much hotter then a hairdryer. Pounding out the dents will not help: You need to fix the plastic in the original shape for a couple of hours to make it keep the shape. So if you want to bake it in the sun, try to get the dents out with foam, a heap of clothes or towels, or try to fit in a flotation bag and pressurize it. I am confident you will manage. Don't worry. I know the feeling of panic when you find your kayak not laying ON the stand but draped OVER it. Even a plastic kayak needs to relax sometimes. Good luck, Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 14:37:49 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04709 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04702 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14230 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7GLahp04478 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:36:43 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09096 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19533 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siaag1ae.compuserve.com (siaag1ae.compuserve.com [149.174.40.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10935 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mailgate_at_localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id QAA17072 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:48:09 -0400 From: Bill Price <PriceHickson_at_compuserve.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Bow Line Accident To: PaddleWise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <200108161648_MC3-DCA7-AFBC_at_compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id NAA19535 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I helped a friend load my Eddyline Skimmer FG seakayak onto his pickup last night, 8/15/01, and awoke today to this msg. I haven't heard of this one before - so "watch those lines." Bill Price Aloha, OR Hi Bill, How much do you think that kayak I borrowed is worth??!! I had a slight mishap on the way home last night. The bowline loosened up and before I could get pulled over the tire sucked in the rope and .... Bottomline line is a broken rack, major roof dents, chips and dents in the canopy and the kayak is toast. I haven't had a chance to look at things in the light, not that I suspect it will change things for the kayak; the truck damage might be worse. I'm hoping that insurance will cover the damage but still need to call them about it. So I will need to know what you think the kayak value is new and probably was in its last best condition. Or if you know off-hand who makes/made the kayak, I will do some inquiries. Sorry about this. You better think twice about lending me anything again. <end> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 15:33:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22857 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22851 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23674 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7GMXHp04606 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:33:17 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09168 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19908 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18600 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-243.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.243]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7GMQg311488 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:26:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3B7C48A0.F9171E96_at_prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:26:40 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida References: <200108151850.LAA08305_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie Fenton wrote: > > Useful information such as the above (meaning, it's > probably not a good idea to paddle a kayak in this area among > hundreds of sharks of different species, some of them apparently very > large and possibly including bulls and tigers) can be helpful. Heck if I was in Florida right now I'd be paddling out there looking for them! I've never seen a shark in its natural habitat. I've seen dolphins, manatees, cudas, and alligators, but no sharks. Or salt water crocodiles. Bob Matter Who is far more interested in the kayak as a means to study aquatic birds and animals than in the shape of paddles or hulls! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 15:36:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23148 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23143 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:36:47 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25203 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.3.) id e.cd.ad774f5 (14377) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <cd.ad774f5.28ada4f6_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:36:38 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bow Line Accident To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/16/01 5:42:18 PM, PriceHickson_at_compuserve.com writes: << and awoke today to this msg. I haven't heard of this one before - so "watch those lines." >> My worst nightmare and it CAN happen VERY easily. You are chatting, thinking about something, the phone rings, whatever. You have the boat strapped but the end of the strap isn't secure. You walk away thinking the boat can't fall off and you never go secure the ends. You drive off, the strap goes under a wheel, you heard how it ends. I feel bad for you and for your friend. I'm sure he feels just awful about both your boat and his truck. I try REALLY hard to never walk away from the boat until it is totally secure. If I have to I shut the door on the strap and if it is the boat on the driver's side I will even give the steering wheel a rap of it. Leaving the end where you can't miss it, like across the front windshield or around the door handle if you have that kind, is another reminder of the unfinished work. We have had so many stories of how far and under what conditions we have driven our boats with no straps. Some have happy endings but not most of them. I hope his insurance covers it for you. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 15:56:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29506 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29500 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf11bis.bellsouth.net (mail211.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.151]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08764 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.116.2]) by imf11bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010816225652.RNMM6690.imf11bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:56:52 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Kevin Kenney'" <kmkenney_at_PRODIGY.NET>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Tupperware dents Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:56:19 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002601c126a6$aa05d4a0$02743dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <001301c125d7$4922d360$91fdfea9_at_oemcomputer> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Try loading the area with towels then saturate them with boiling water and if necessary, put some pressure on once the plastic has softened. Good Luck! Bob Denton Delray Beach, FL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 16 22:26:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28928 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28923 Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (barry.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.25]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23590 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from do18.mindspring.com (user-38ldlnt.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.214.253]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA21932; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010814072041.00a03ec0_at_pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: do18_at_pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:24:24 -0700 To: "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: "Fred T. - PK _at_ SBCC" <do18_at_mindspring.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Sinking Off S. California Cc: "Scott A. Shuford" <scott_at_bigmancreative.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Last night at approximately 18:30 local time I was paddling off Topanga Canyon Point and the LA Coast Guard issued a emergency message to look for people in the water close to a white partially submerged kayak and I can't remember the Latitude and Longitude that they gave. Has anyone heard of any S. Ca. paddlers lost at sea? Fred California Kayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 08:15:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06076 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06070 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01216 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7HFEcp07374 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:14:38 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA09536 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12851 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14006 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 31D259BA9; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdy45639; Fri Aug 17 08:23:41 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001081708221503422 ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:22:15 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRBCZ>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:22:21 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA0F_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET'" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:22:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Heck if I was in Florida right now I'd be paddling out there > looking for them! Bob, something like carbon monoxide poisoning would be a cleaner form of suicide, don't you think? :-) Your'e a braver man than I am. I could be very happy paddling the rest of my life and never having a shark encounter. Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 08:16:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06336 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06331 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01536 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA12574; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:50:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200108171450.KAA12574_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:11:47 -0400 To: Bill Price <PriceHickson_at_compuserve.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bow Line Accident In-Reply-To: <200108161648_MC3-DCA7-AFBC_at_compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 04:48 PM 8/16/01 -0400, you wrote: >I helped a friend load my Eddyline Skimmer FG seakayak onto >his pickup last night, 8/15/01, and awoke today to this msg. >I haven't heard of this one before - so "watch those lines." I know of one other person doing this. He drove over the bowline of his tandem aluminum frame baidarka when pulling out of a parking lot. Fortunately he was going slowly. The yakima rack was destroyed. He claimed the kayak was undamaged, despite having pulled the bow of the kayak down to the hood of the vehicle. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 08:16:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06328 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06323 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01527 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7HFGIp07388 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:16:18 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA09549 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:24:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08065 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 06:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03931 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 06:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id C1CAC9BA0; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdD57579; Fri Aug 17 09:43:42 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001081709421703167 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:42:17 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRBGA>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:42:23 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA10_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Videos Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:42:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi all. I've viewed a few kayaking videos, but they were all filmed in calm water - beginner type tapes. Can anyone point me to a good title that was filmed in rough water and dangerous conditions that demonstrate a variety of water enviroments - breaking waves, high winds, strong currents, dangerous eddies, etc? Doug, got any home videos? :-) And.... if such a video doesn't exist, here's an opportunity for someone to make one! Thanks for the help. Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 10:19:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14886 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14878 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23460 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7HHIWp07561 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:18:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09634 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10965 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13942 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CraigMacKinnon (user-2ivf1qb.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.135.75]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10460 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01c1273d$7b5f0e40$4b87f7a5_at_CraigMacKinnon> From: "Craig MacKinnon" <elroca_at_earthlink.net> To: "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA0F_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:55:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This link might dissuade those inclined to go looking for sharks: http://www.jacksonville.net/~dldecker/tooth.htm Granted, many sharks swim amongst swimmers without incident, but I believe that certain kayaks can present a silhouette that under certain conditions given certain sharks can cause a feeding response; one only has to read DT to find an example of this. I have a healthy respect for sharks and think that they are beautiful and powerful creatures that deserve our protection. They are also efficient predators at the top of the oceans food chain. However unlikely the odds, I hope I am never mistaken for a food item or the subject of territorial aggression by a shark. That's why I don't go looking for sharks in my kayak. Btw, seal colonies are apparently good places to get an up close look at one of the oceans most efficient predators, especially inexperienced Great Whites just making the transition to marine mammals--just make sure you don't violate the MMPA! Maybe there should be an MCTBKPA; I'll leave the acronym decryption to others. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Sylvia" <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET>; "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida > > Heck if I was in Florida right now I'd be paddling out there > > looking for them! > > Bob, something like carbon monoxide poisoning would be a cleaner form of > suicide, don't you think? :-) > > Your'e a braver man than I am. I could be very happy paddling the rest of my > life and never having a shark encounter. > > Rick - Poquoson, VA snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 14:02:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27027 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27022 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27943 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7HL1Wp07870 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:01:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09740 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21510 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf01bis.bellsouth.net (mail201.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.141]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18654 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.186]) by imf01bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010817204954.KUKY2681.imf01bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:54 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET>, "'Paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Hundreds of sharks spotted off Florida Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:16 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000101c1275e$14483490$ba723dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <3B7C48A0.F9171E96_at_prodigy.net> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I see sharks all the time. They are usually small (4 to 5 feet) and inshore looking for fish in the surf. I've seen some larger bulls while diving in the same waters, but they are usually too deep to be seen from the boat unless the vis is exceptional. cu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 16:50:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18482 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18477 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19686 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7HNndp08074 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:49:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09907 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15243 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m11.boston.juno.com (m11.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.74]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13021 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"Wgy8QeAtlcFd/if78lQ6iXxWDECdi/HD1aBuBiFGLWEZs20H+aKIQg=="> Received: (from rickniemi_at_juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GC35BVAM; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:38:58 EDT To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:47:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Videos Message-ID: <20010817.164730.-199249.9.rickniemi_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Richard A Niemi <rickniemi_at_juno.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick, You might want to check out this website. They have many action kayak videos. http://www.vision.net.au/~jennings/vidoc.html Rick Niemi Email: rickniemi_at_juno.com Web: www.kayaksandmore.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 16:56:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21374 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21367 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goliath.cnchost.com (goliath.cnchost.com [207.155.252.47]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25679 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by goliath.cnchost.com id TAA08265; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:56:19 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <007c01c12778$35dfc220$6501a8c0_at_sah350> From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: <do18_at_mindspring.com> References: <200108171719.KAA14927_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Subject: Re:[Paddlewise] Kayak Sinking off S. California Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Fred, Last night at 1830 I was launching at Hobie Beach in Channel Islands Harbor, Oxnard and I saw the Harbor Patrol tow in an outrigger canoe. It was down in the stern and someone was fureously baling with 1/2 of a bleach jug or something similar. This must be what you had heard as a sinking kayak. Steve Fred Wrote: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:24:24 -0700 From: "Fred T. - PK _at_ SBCC" <do18_at_mindspring.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak Sinking Off S. California Last night at approximately 18:30 local time I was paddling off Topanga Canyon Point and the LA Coast Guard issued a emergency message to look for people in the water close to a white partially submerged kayak and I can't remember the Latitude and Longitude that they gave. Has anyone heard of any S. Ca. paddlers lost at sea? Fred California Kayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 17 23:28:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25601 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25596 Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14716 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-2-1.oz.net [216.39.134.65]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA05711 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:24:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bow Line Accident Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:36:34 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEIEGJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have repaired several kayaks for customers who have reeled in the bow line with a rolling front tire (at least until the hood of the car got in the way). One couple did both their kayaks at the same time. I guess "double dipping" is twice the fun. Repeat after me three times: "Thou shall always tie the line to the car before tying the line to the kayak!" Having seen the harm done to the sinners who violate this most holy of KAYAKS laws, and religiously following it I've never made any bow shaped dents in the hoods my own cars. Also by swearing to follow this sacred law, if you subsequently forget to tie off the kayak end of the rope (that you already tied to the car) an automatic alarm system (apparently built into all tires) will squeal a loud warning soon after you start moving. This alarm is to help remind you to tie down the kayak properly. Don't ask me how I know about this alarm, my lips are sealed. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 18 07:17:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22586 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22580 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16220 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11468 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Bow Line Accident In-Reply-To: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEIEGJCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.1010818101151.11350A-100000_at_sage.coe.uga.edu > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Matt Broze wrote: > ... Also by swearing to follow this sacred law, > if you subsequently forget to tie off the kayak end of the rope (that you > already tied to the car) an automatic alarm system (apparently built into > all tires) will squeal a loud warning soon after you start moving. This > alarm is to help remind you to tie down the kayak properly. Unless you start off too briskly. Then the tire goes right into recovery mode, in which it straightens out a steel S-hook and flings the rope into oncoming traffic. >Don't ask me how I know about this alarm, my lips are sealed. What he said. Steve Cramer (no dents on my hood, either) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 18 09:18:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01242 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01235 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00404 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7IGI4p09866 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:18:04 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA10281 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11444 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from glisan.hevanet.com (root_at_glisan.hevanet.com [198.5.254.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22646 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sven (ts02-ip16.hevanet.com [206.163.60.42]) by glisan.hevanet.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id f7IFDGG20253 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:13:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neil Schulman" <neils_at_hevanet.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Request for info: Paddling in the virgin islands Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:00:52 -0700 Message-ID: <001c01c127f6$93207320$2a3ca3ce_at_sven> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dear folks- I'm looking for information on kayaking in the Virgin Islands (most likely in the US section, but possibly in either or both). I may be down there this November and I'm trying to put together a week or so trip. So far, information has been scarce. Does anyone know of outfitters down there who will rent decked (rather than just sit on tops) kayaks that would be suitable for a long trip? Does anyone know anything about good routes, placed to paddle, areas that are undeveloped/wild/not touristy? Good wildlife spots? Places to camp? Getting fresh water? Tides, currents, weather patterns? Anyone paddled there before? Thanks, Neil [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 18 10:10:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18645 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18610 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe67.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.202]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03138 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:10:24 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [207.5.160.63] From: "Ken Schroeter" <kenschroeter_at_hotmail.com> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rudder assembly Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:10:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <OE674ReOXwNA6nAl6fb0000f8d4_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2001 17:10:24.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB3B8AA0:01C12808] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am looking for a rudder and pintle for my kayak to rig as a skeg (ie: don't need cables and pedals). Anyone have a standard rudder with the pintle out there that I could try? If anyone does, I can send the appropriate measurements. Thanks! Ken Schroeter OTC Millennium 160 Laconia, NH, USA 43°32'25"N 71°28'59"W "Watery tarts, lying around in ponds, handing out swords, is no basis for a system of government!" -Monty Python *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 18 23:06:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25930 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25922 Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03288 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip68.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.68]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7J64fM13196; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B7F5681.E2A05CAC_at_pacifier.com> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:02:41 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs Avoidance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> > Will writes:: > >>Anybody have to routinely navigate waters abuzz with a mix of working and > pleasure craft? > Oh yeah. I guide a number of trips in the San Juan Isles of Washington and > on the Columbia River in Oregon each year, been doing it a while. > IMHO, a group needs to stick together in a pod. If I couldn't hold a group > together on a crossing, I would not take that group to that crossing. > period. The podsters should not be ALL abreast or ALL in line, but grouped > in a comfortable sized pod. This pod then needs to proceed on a desired > course at a desired speed and KEEP to that course and speed, assuming that > the captain on the other vessel will see us <as a group> and make the needed > change in course. I constantly monitor my 360º AND angle on the bow with ALL > vessels in the area. I only make a change in my course or speed if I need > too, which is rare. If I assumed that every vessel I encounter doesn't > see me I would spend hours making a simple crossing and I'd be changing > course and speed so often that no one <including my clients> would know my > intentions. This is not desirable. In a bunch of years I have yet to even > come close with another vessel. > I have talked with many captains who use these waters and they all report > that a group of kayakers is easy to spot with their bright colors and > paddles a flashing. When the kayak group is on track they then can plan an > appropriate action. There is nothing they hate worse than a group that > starts and stops and slows and then speed up and turns 3 times in 10 > minutes. BTW, these areas I paddle are full of deadheads, logs, rocks and > other stuff that NO captain wants to hit, so they ARE aware. And I do keep > an eagle eye on every vessel, knowing that if a mistake happens *I* am aware > and can take action. > Steve Scherrer <who paddles a 19' solid ORANGE boat!!> Steve and I paddle the same water on the Columbia, more or less. I'm chiming in because I see a somewhat different pattern than he does, albeit only on very open water. I agree in backwaters or deadheaded waters, everybody I see is alert. Here's the difference: I have many times been on a nominal "collision course" with a pleasure boater, recognized that, and made the accepted large, obvious course change to signal my intentions. And, to my intense frustration, about 30 % of the time, the pleasure boater corrects __into__ me!! So, I correct again, and that usually makes a collision unlikely. Could be my experience is different from Steve's because I'm often a solo paddler, and sometimes with only one or two others. I suspect his larger groups (8-10 boats, right, Steve?) are far more visible than I am. In contrast, my experience with maneuverable commercial traffic (unburdened tugs and smaller vessels -- not freighters) is much better. Seems like their response to a course change on my part is uniformly sensible. Freighters and the like, of course, have essentially no choice about where they must travel, inasmuch as the maintained shipping channel is pretty narrow most places. Bonus anecdote: one absolutely moonless, _very dark_ night a couple I know well was out for a paddle, on a stretch of the Columbia up near Clatskanie, where the channel is trapped between some high cliffs on the WA side and an island on the OR side that has several groins which extend almost to the OR side of the channel. My buddies, who were not displaying any lights, were ghosting just outside the groins, gawking at the night sky, when an upriver tug came along, pushing a two by two barge load. The buddies paused to allow the tug to pass, and were struck dumb when the tug captain hit them with his spotlight, dead on! The buddies figured the tug skipper must have picked up the difference in shading their yaks put on the water, and checked them out, suspecting they might have been deadheads or larger floating logs. Probably a testimonial to the value of good night vision. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 19 17:57:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11050 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11045 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf12bis.bellsouth.net (mail112.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.52]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27472 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.114.186]) by imf12bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010820005727.MDFP28620.imf12bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:57:27 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] 3 surfers injured when attacked by sharks off Daytona Beach Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:56:37 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <002201c12912$f7836c60$ba723dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <200108151850.LAA08305_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/today/news_8.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 19 19:58:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17912 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17894 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pinto.eastlink.ca (stream.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.13]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13140 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hfx.andara.com (u102n162.hfx.eastlink.ca [24.222.102.162]) by pinto.eastlink.ca (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7K2v5c23813 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:57:05 -0300 (ADT) Message-ID: <3B808BCF.3D41BD8E_at_hfx.andara.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:02:25 -0400 From: Kerry Doubleday <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Anyone using HipGrips? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Folks, Has anyone had the chance to try the inflatable HipGrips from Radical Gear (www.radicalgear.com)? I am considering these for our family fleet as they seem to allow for varying hip widths. Any feedback regarding effectiveness for touring would be appreciated. Cheers, Kerry -- Kerry Doubleday Halifax, N.S. Canada *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 19 20:59:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07097 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07091 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19768 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.12.31.44] (host-31-44.dsl-sea.seanet.com [208.12.31.44]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18133; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:58:49 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:08:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Anyone using HipGrips? From: Rex Roberton <rexrob_at_mac.com> To: Kerry Doubleday <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com>, Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-ID: <B7A5DB38.1761%rexrob_at_mac.com> In-Reply-To: <3B808BCF.3D41BD8E_at_hfx.andara.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >Hi Folks >Has anyone had the chance to try the inflatable HipGrips from Radical >Gear (www.radicalgear.com)? I am considering these for our family fleet >as they seem to allow for varying hip widths. Any feedback regarding >effectiveness for touring would be appreciated. ----- Kerry, I wrote a review on the HipGrips for Sea Kayaker Magazine in the February 2001 issue (page 54). In short, I think they are a great product but I don't use them in my personal kayak because of the expense. I've always carved my own custom foam hip pads which I can do for under $20 easily. The HipGrips cost about $50 with shipping. However, as you have pointed out, when several people are using the same kayak you need a system to vary the hip width and the HipGrips are great. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 19 21:18:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13225 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13220 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01607 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7K4IYp12726 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:18:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11114 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27556 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01656 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7K3SCf09929 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:28:12 -0700 Message-ID: <001d01c12928$93a55080$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B808BCF.3D41BD8E_at_hfx.andara.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Boreal Ellesmere Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:31:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Out for a tranquil urban paddle today, around Brentwood Bay, and up Tod Inlet and Finlayson Arm, just outside for Victoria. Lots of seals, starfish, jellyfish, ravens, eagles. No sharks ;-) http://www.britishcolumbia.com/ParksAndTrails/Parks/details/?ID=435 A paddling friend (who is trying out lots of different kayaks intending to buy one when he gets the one that feels right) was in an Ellesmere today. It was a great boat in many ways but there was some odd response in terms of turning to weather and falling off to lee, to the skeg deployment or retraction. Also, the skeg would not deploy at all for a while. I finally reached under the boat and pulled it down while we rafted up. After that it seemed to deploy and retract well. I'd like to hear any commentary from anyone who has paddled this boat, either through the list or direct. Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 19 23:17:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20591 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20584 Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f60.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.15.60]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13829 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:15:47 -0700 Received: from 193.66.12.133 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:15:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [193.66.12.133] From: "Clas Hagelstam" <clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Seakayaking Videos Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:15:47 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F60qouH40ZIfXIapNAi0000c1a2_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2001 06:15:47.0569 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D6FFE10:01C1293F] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm looking for suppliers of seakayaking videos, especially then one showing Maligiaq Padillas demonstrations. Has to be in the VHS format as I live in Europe. clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 00:12:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09043 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09038 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19145 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-122.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.122]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA03584 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:12:19 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <000d01c12947$c2c9b3a0$7ad0150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] new boat time! Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:14:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am looking at buying a Current Designs Solitce GT or GTS or an CD Expedition. Any opinions or suggestions out there? Bob in Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 06:17:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29250 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29245 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grok.imaginelan.com (grok.imaginelan.com [63.109.230.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01640 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snapple (aidan [192.35.133.137]) by grok.imaginelan.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA20059; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:50:18 -0400 Message-Id: <200108201250.IAA20059_at_grok.imaginelan.com> X-Sender: kork_at_192.35.133.111 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:12:04 -0400 To: "Clas Hagelstam" <clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: kirk olsen <kolsen_at_imaginelan.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seakayaking Videos In-Reply-To: <F60qouH40ZIfXIapNAi0000c1a2_at_hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 06:15 AM 8/20/01 +0000, you wrote: >I'm looking for suppliers of seakayaking >videos, especially then one showing >Maligiaq Padillas demonstrations. >Has to be in the VHS format as I live >in Europe. You want to contact John Heath. http://web.fbcc.com/jdheath/ The videos are available in NTSC (North American) and PAL (European) formats *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 07:04:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14086 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14081 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f194.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.194]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02151 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:02:43 -0700 Received: from 192.128.167.68 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:02:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [192.128.167.68] Reply-To: gstamer_at_magicnet.net From: "Greg Stamer" <gstamer_at_hotmail.com> To: clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seakayaking Videos Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:02:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F1943b6uIU1Gj03oHMw0000c98f_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2001 14:02:43.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7FDB450:01C12980] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >I'm looking for suppliers of seakayaking >videos, especially then one showing >Maligiaq Padillas demonstrations. >Has to be in the VHS format as I live >in Europe. Clas, John Heath sells a number of excellent Greenland kayaking videos, including "Rolling with Maligiaq", at http://home.earthlink.net/~jheath1821/. Available in NTSC and PAL formats. There is also a rough "home-made" video of Maligiaq's first visit to the U.S. at the Delmarva Retreat. Although not of professional quality, it does contain Maligiaq's complete rope gymnastics routine and two rolling demonstrations in a seal-skin kayak. Details are on the Qaannat Kattuffiat website (Greenland Kayak Association) at http://www.magicnet.net/~gstamer/QK.html. Greg Stamer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 11:40:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07353 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07348 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06184 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KId3p14030 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:03 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11384 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09472 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf02bis.bellsouth.net (mail002.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20551 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.117.55]) by imf02bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010820121128.JONA5035.imf02bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:11:28 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_sinkthestink.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: "'Rev. Bob Carter'" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net>, "'paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] new boat time! Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:11:11 -0400 Organization: Gulf Stream International Message-ID: <000a01c12971$33e1bdc0$37753dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <000d01c12947$c2c9b3a0$7ad0150c_at_carter> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I noticed that the Canadian versions of these boats were slightly different when I was shopping some years ago. Especially noticeable in the thigh braces. The Canadian builts dug into my thighs and were obviously made for thinner or fitter paddlers. Cya > I am looking at buying a Current Designs Solitce GT or GTS or > an CD Expedition. Any opinions or suggestions out there? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 11:40:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07361 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07356 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06272 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KIdhp14041 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:39:44 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11391 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24603 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:00:43 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21506 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.145.32e187 (4595) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <145.32e187.28b263f3_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:00:35 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Deck bags To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I had an interesting experience this last weekend. I was doing an intermediate class on Sunday with ten people. This one fellow showed up with all of his own equipment including a new plastic Sea Lion with a nice deckbag fasten in front of the cockpit. I thought it looked like a pretty nice setup. In the course of the class I lead the group out of the harbor and down the coast to land through some two to three foot surf. I went first and brought the group in one at a time with paddle signals. When it was this fellows turn I noticed that he seemed a little unstable in his boat, particularly when paddling backwards through the waves. I got him past the surf and waded out to grab the bow of his boat, but before I could reach him he just sort of lost his balance and fell over into the water. It was strange, but I figured he just had lousy balance. Later, when it was time to launch, I pushed this fellow off the beach and he promptly capsized perhaps fifty yards from shore. I could see that he was attempting to right his boat in the water, but for some reason he was unable to do so. Eventually he made it into shore at which time I realized that his deck bag seemed to weigh about ten pounds or so and was making turning the boat over more difficult then it should be. Whether the weight was the result of taking on water from the capsize or just the equipment he was carrying in the deck bag I could not say. I had the guy remove the deck bag and stow in inside the boat, after which he re-launced, and made it through the surf without any problems. He was noticeably more stable without the deckbag on his deck. I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has anyone else noticed this? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 11:40:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08380 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08354 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07799 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KIeap14057 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:40:36 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11398 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26036 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys27.hou.wt.net (sys27.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.27]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25118 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (216-119-128-146.ipset8.wt.net [216.119.128.146]) by sys27.hou.wt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30097; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:05:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B810A47.D39B4C9E_at_ckpro.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:02:10 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Clas Hagelstam <clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com> CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seakayaking Videos References: <F60qouH40ZIfXIapNAi0000c1a2_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I've seen the video you're referring to. It was shot and produced in the Houston,TX area and is in VHS. Check out Southwest Paddlesports, <http://www.paddlesports.com>. I viewed the video at the shop during an ACA Instructor Training a couple of weeks ago. Chris Kuhlman Seabrook, TX Go the extra mile. It's never crowded. Clas Hagelstam wrote: > I'm looking for suppliers of seakayaking > videos, especially then one showing > Maligiaq Padillas demonstrations. > Has to be in the VHS format as I live > in Europe. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 12:14:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19136 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19131 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cae.wisc.edu (galaga.cae.wisc.edu [144.92.240.30]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04246 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from coop (admin178.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.178.136]) by cae.wisc.edu (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA29843 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:14:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20010820140647.00a568a0_at_cae.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mastalsk_at_cae.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:14:12 -0500 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Mark Mastalski <mastalski_at_engr.wisc.edu> Subject: [Paddlewise] Lake Superior Provincial Park Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Just an FYI to any of you perhaps considering paddling the interior lakes of Lake Superior Provincial Park soon. Last week I was up there and it has been extremely dry. There is a fire ban and in fact the water is so low that we could not paddle the interior route we had planned. We spent most of our time on Lake Mijin and saw quite a few kayakers, but they weren't going anywhere due to the levels. We asked the officials how much rain would be required before the ban was lifted and they told us one week. It did rain while we were there but not enough I guess, because when we came out on Friday the ban was still in effect. Obviously if you're paddling the "Big Lake" there's no worry, but just be aware that the interior passages are very low. Mark Mastalski ___________________________________ Mark Mastalski, Assistant Director Cooperative Education & Internship Program University of Wisconsin - Madison 1415 Engineering Drive, Room 1150 Madison, WI 53706-1619 (608) 262-7504 (608) 262-7262 Fax Visit us at...http://ecs.engr.wisc.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 12:23:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22083 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22078 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pineapple.arctic.net (pineapple.arctic.net [198.51.13.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09540 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (209-124-129-125.dialup.cherry.arctic.net [209.124.129.125]) by pineapple.arctic.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-60228U6000L600S0V35) with SMTP id net for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:22:57 -0800 Message-ID: <008701c129ad$85d822e0$7d817cd1_at_oemcomputer> From: "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw_at_arctic.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <145.32e187.28b263f3_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Deck bags Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:22:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I use a deck bag to hold my binoculars, small camera, VHF radio, flares, GPS, and also a map under the bungee cords that are on top of the deck bag. It has not caused me any stability problems. In fact I do not even notice it is there. <Bill> Brought to you from beautiful Unalaska/Dutch Harbor, Alaska. N 53°51.140' W 166°30.228' (WGS 84) ----- Original Message ----- From: <KiAyker_at_aol.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 5:00 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Deck bags > I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 12:45:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28477 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28471 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.17]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23310 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bigwoodenradio.com ([24.9.193.206]) by femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010820194331.RJBZ5389.femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_bigwoodenradio.co m> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:43:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3B816863.A128AD3A_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:43:32 -0500 From: Will Jennings <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com> Reply-To: will_at_bigwoodenradio.com Organization: Type A! Writers Group / Big Wooden Radio X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Deck bags References: <145.32e187.28b263f3_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote: > I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? I have a SealLine deck bag that stays close to the surface of my deck, and the heaviest load it takes would likely be extra water in litre Nalgene bottles or a bladder. I wouldn't load that sort of weight in that position if I was anticipating a great deal of surf or confused water (then again, I'm an utter novice paddler), and instead load the heaviest items along the keel line of my day hatch or in a bladder in front of my seat in the cockpit (lashed in via glassed-in contact points). I have a water bladder that fits a backpack on my PFD, which would seem to raise the center of gravity even more than a deck bag, and still have never experienced the problems you describe...and my ability to confidently brace in those conditions is hardly bombproof or combat tested.... Likely the design of the boat would influence this issue more than a deck bag? I don't doubt that some of the expedition rigs I've seen would present a larger target for wind, as well as hinder the ability to right a boat after capsize (or hinder a roll for that matter). wjj landlocked in iowa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 13:11:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05126 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05121 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09621 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip5.ast7.pacifier.com [66.43.11.5]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7KK8PM12120; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B816DBC.347AF1D3_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:06:20 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Deck bags References: <145.32e187.28b263f3_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote: > I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? Not a big deck bag fan, but I did make a simple one modeled after Bob Denton's design (or, was that Jack Martin?) from an el cheapo fanny pack. It is small, unlike what Scott describes, and seems to have no effect on the CG of my yak/Dave system. I don't think it can hold over 4-5 pounds, and in no way compares to my upper body mass, which is a lot farther from the CG, to boot. OTOH, the mongo ones I have seen on others' yaks could be a problem, perhaps. For my tastes, the encumbrance of acres of deck space is the main drawback of larger deck bags. That's why I made a small one. Because it keeps me from having to open my sprayskirt for snacks and water hits, I suspect it enhances my safety, rathr than detracting. YMMV. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 13:14:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07630 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07625 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14276 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KKElp14178 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:14:47 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11513 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04936 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:07:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09207 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 6379D9B34; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdd22077; Mon Aug 20 16:05:20 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082016035405795 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:03:54 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRH0V>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:03:59 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:03:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "Hey", P'Wisers. In my first two years of Kayaking, I've heard many, many times (on P'Wise, Sea Kayaker, Canoe & Kayak, Deep Trouble, other misc. books, videos, etc.) how critical it is that you have certain survival gear available "on you" in the event that you are in the water without your boat, or you have the boat but you can't get to the gear due to the way it's stored. I'm referring to things like multiple flares in multiple types, dye, strobelights, radios, mirrors, Sea Seats, food/water, whistles, knives, tow ropes, etc etc etc...... How are you folks attaching all this stuff to yourselves or your PFDs? My PFD has a couple pockets, but not large enough to get most of this stuff in them. A side bar in Matt's "Deep Trouble" says that if you modify a PFD it no longer is Coast Guard approved, which hinders my desire to add a "survival bag" to the PFD in such a way that you could get to everything. Granted, I'd rather have the gear than a theoretical "approval". Nonetheless...... What are the alternatives and what solutions have you folks come up with? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 13:50:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17627 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17622 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06359 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7KKnrp14218 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:49:53 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11533 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10798 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21782 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id C17399B80; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdd24567; Mon Aug 20 16:23:39 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082016221328297 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:22:13 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRR2AM>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1C_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Deck bags Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:22:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one > scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of > gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? > > Scott > So.Cal. Scott, I use a pseudo deck bag. It's really a day hikers fanny pack. It's got a couple layers of pockets in the center, and a water bottle holder on each side. The part that is designed to go around ones waist is attached around the deck rigging. There are a few other clasps that I attach to the deck rigging as back-up. I've never noticed any additional unstablility, but then again the weight is minimal. I keep a couple water bottles in it, a cheapo point-and-click 35mm camera, an apple or orange, some sunscreen, a thing of chap stick, and a sweat rag. I've practiced self rescues and had no problem since it's forward of the cockpit. It does get in the way a bit with assisted rescues, especially when the assitor pulls it up on their deck to empty water from my cockpit. However, not enough to stop using it.... you can just feel that it's there. When practicing rolls (I'm nowhere near bombproof yet) it doesn't get in the way per se, but it does tend to "flop aound" a bit. The only thing I've omitted from it's contents when I practice rescues is the camera (the bag is water resistant, but not water proof). Other than that, the rest of it stays the same. I can say, though, that I no longer stow my paddle float and pump on the rear deck. That DEFINITELY gets in my way doing rescues. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 15:41:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23053 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23017 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25400 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200108202240.PAA25400_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 17921 invoked by uid 0); 20 Aug 2001 22:40:39 -0000 Received: from b403a.pppool.de (HELO gmx.de) (213.7.64.58) by mail.gmx.net (mp001-rz3) with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 22:40:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:39:17 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id PAA23023 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This afternoon, two German Kayakers have started to cross the North Sea from England to Germany. Jochen Grikschat, 29, and George Hartwig, 52, will paddle their Valley Aleut double kayak "Vinland" for 3 to 5 days, not setting a foot on land until they reach Cuxhaven. Jochen and George started their trip at Cromer in Eastern England. They will paddle into the direction of Texel (Netherlands) until 30 kms before the coast and then continue until Cuxhaven, keeping a 30 km distance to shore. They are equipped with a strong 25W VHF radio which they'll be using to contact ships and oil platforms. Those will in turn contact me. A cellular phone will be used if they are in reach of GSM transmitters. For the next days, the weather is forecasted to be quite calm. Later in the trip (Thursday and Friday), there will be winds of up to Bf. 5 with strong gusts. I am the contact person for Jochen and George and will forward any information to paddlewise. Both have distributed to paddlewise and Jochen said repetedly that he has learned lots from the paddlewisenheimers, not just for that particular trip. Keep your fingers crossed for them! Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 16:28:26 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06457 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06400 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27498 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-43.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.43]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19607 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:28:04 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <001e01c129d0$14c55e60$2bd0150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:30:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I modified mine by sewing a nylon mesh pouch to the back of the PFD and pack it full of various survival gear. True it no longer meets Coast Guard approval but it is more of a "life saver " with all the survival gear available. Bob in Alaska -----Original Message----- From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: 'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net' <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:33 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear >"Hey", P'Wisers. > >In my first two years of Kayaking, I've heard many, many times (on P'Wise, >Sea Kayaker, Canoe & Kayak, Deep Trouble, other misc. books, videos, etc.) >how critical it is that you have certain survival gear available "on you" in >the event that you are in the water without your boat, or you have the boat >but you can't get to the gear due to the way it's stored. > >I'm referring to things like multiple flares in multiple types, dye, >strobelights, radios, mirrors, Sea Seats, food/water, whistles, knives, tow >ropes, etc etc etc...... > >How are you folks attaching all this stuff to yourselves or your PFDs? My >PFD has a couple pockets, but not large enough to get most of this stuff in >them. A side bar in Matt's "Deep Trouble" says that if you modify a PFD it >no longer is Coast Guard approved, which hinders my desire to add a >"survival bag" to the PFD in such a way that you could get to everything. >Granted, I'd rather have the gear than a theoretical "approval". >Nonetheless...... > >What are the alternatives and what solutions have you folks come up with? > >Rick > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 18:01:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05806 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05774 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:00:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28456 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7L10Sp14441 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:00:28 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11636 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:01:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108210101.SAA11636_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> > This afternoon, two German Kayakers have started to cross the North Sea > from England to Germany. Jochen Grikschat, 29, and George Hartwig, 52, > will paddle their Valley Aleut double kayak "Vinland" for 3 to 5 days, > not setting a foot on land until they reach Cuxhaven. <snip> > I am the contact person for Jochen and George and will forward any > information to paddlewise. Thanks, Marian. Looking forward to details of the trip as they occur. Are they paddling folding kayaks? Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 19:23:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02478 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02473 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prserv.net (out2.prserv.net [32.97.166.32]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24039 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 204.146.249.66 (slip-32-100-53-201.la.us.prserv.net[32.100.53.201]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <2001082102230820202kla12e>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:23:08 +0000 Received: (qmail 3584 invoked by uid 1000); 20 Aug 2001 21:22:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:22:35 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Edwin Johnson <elj_at_shreve.net> X-Sender: elj_at_sky1.elj.org To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Summer Float Trip Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108202121420.3582-100000_at_sky1.elj.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thought some of you might enjoy looking at the pictures from our June float trip down the St. Francis River, out of Sam A. Baker State Park in SE Missouri. The park is a wonderful small, isolated park and the river tends to be a calm, mild float but has beautiful scenery and very nice, clear water. Shuttling can be arranged at the park, which also rents canoes, for a variety of trips. We asked for a longer run than they usually offer and they were very accommodating. The river is a good 'relaxing' stream with good gravel bars for camping. There is a link to the pictures on my home page at: www.shreve.net/~elj We visited, purely for sight-seeing purposes, three other state parks in close proximity: Taum Sauk Mountain, Elephant Rocks, and Johnson's Shut-ins, all of which were very interesting in their own right and shouldn't be missed if you are in the area. ...Edwin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Edwin Johnson ....... elj_at_shreve.net ~ ~ http://www.shreve.net/~elj ~ ~ ~ ~ "Once you have flown, you will walk the ~ ~ earth with your eyes turned skyward, ~ ~ for there you have been, there you long ~ ~ to return." -- da Vinci ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 21:06:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02885 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02880 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pltn13.pbi.net (mta7.pltn13.pbi.net [64.164.98.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28683 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([63.195.120.186]) by mta7.pltn13.pbi.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GIE00IR1GPOC3_at_mta7.pltn13.pbi.net> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:05:43 -0700 From: Dave Flory <daflory_at_pacbell.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Kayak trailers In-reply-to: <001e01c129d0$14c55e60$2bd0150c_at_carter> To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Message-id: <20010821040543.20455_at_mail.pacbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 3.0.9v2 <http://www.ctmdev.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 References: <001e01c129d0$14c55e60$2bd0150c_at_carter> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id VAA02881 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net If any paddlewiser is interested in third party info' on the Sportsrig.com trailer zip me a query. I drove down to their shop in San Luis Obispo today and picked one up with my Honda del Sol. It certainly handled well on the way home to San Jose. I could not feel any effect on the handling or performance of my little car. There are pictures on my web site at: http://homepage.mac.com/dflory I'll post more pictures on my page, with my boat loaded, later. I currently have a 5 foot extension on the tongue and feel I'll probably trade that in for a 3 foot one after I check it with boat(s) loaded. The trailer looks very solidly built, and has a clever mechanism that allows folding the wheels in allowing the trailer to be stored on end (with tongue removed) in the space that would be occupied by a bicycle in the garage. I have no connection to Sportsrig except that I think I'm going to be a very satisfied owner. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net Go Sea Kayaking!! ©2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 21:18:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06313 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06308 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spok.premier1.net (spok.premier1.net [64.38.159.38]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05754 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from premier1 (ip-64-38-156-54.dialup.seanet.com [64.38.156.54]) by spok.premier1.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04749 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007801c129f8$1327fae0$c09c2640_at_premier1.premier1.net> From: "Peter Chopelas" <pac_at_premier1.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] survival gear Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:16:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick wrote:. >>>....if you modify a PFD it no longer is Coast Guard approved, which hinders my desire to add a "survival bag" to the PFD in such a way that you could get to everything. Granted, I'd rather have the gear than a theoretical "approval". Nonetheless...... What are the alternatives and what solutions have you folks come up with? >>>> I think if you make a vest like devise that goes over your PFD, or even attaches to it, as long as you do not modify the PFD itself in any way, you would be still be legal. An easy way around modifying the PFD itself is to go ahead and do it all you want (use much discretion and caution of course as not to hinder the function of the PFD). And to stay "legal" buy a cheap $8. approved "horse collar" life jacket and throw it in your kayak, perhaps using it as a back rest, or extra floatation. You must carry an approved life preserver in your boat for each occupant, but you do not have to wear it. Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 22:05:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20934 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20929 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07105 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-532.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.209.50]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA28390 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:03:49 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <004e01c129fe$fcba8a00$2bd0150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:06:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I pack all my survival gear in zip lock bags before putting them in the survival pack. the trapper in air helps things float so I think it is a break even proposition. Plus I with the exception of a power bar or two my survival gear weights very little. Bob -----Original Message----- From: David Christianson <davchris_at_skypoint.com> To: Rev. Bob Carter <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear >It has been many years now but I don't think that military pilots carry all >survival gear on them. I would tend to think that too much gear on your >PFD would decrease your survival. The military has small survival gear >packs you can grab if you have time. I have always tended to have a >several very small packs in my kayak for that purpose. I probably should >rethink these packs, what goes in them, maybe make them floatable and put >some long floating rope handles on them. Maybe people, would have other >suggestions. > >Dave > >At 03:30 PM 8/20/2001 -0800, you wrote: >>I modified mine by sewing a nylon mesh pouch to the back of the PFD and pack >>it full of various survival gear. True it no longer meets Coast Guard >>approval but it is more of a "life saver " with all the survival gear >>available. >>Bob >>in Alaska > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 22:32:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29870 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29861 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usermail0.netnitco.net (usermail0.netnitco.net [216.176.128.8]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25716 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epsrenne (PPPa53-ResaleGaryMetro15-2R7946.dialinx.net [4.45.168.210]) by usermail0.netnitco.net (8.11.4/8.10.1/052400) with SMTP id f7L5VeG53985; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:31:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003701c12a03$02f71420$d2a82d04_at_epsrenne> From: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> To: "Rick Sylvia" <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modified PFDs Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:34:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > A side bar in Matt's "Deep Trouble" says that if you modify a PFD it > no longer is Coast Guard approved, which hinders my desire to add a > "survival bag" to the PFD in such a way that you could get to everything. > Granted, I'd rather have the gear than a theoretical "approval". > Nonetheless...... > > What are the alternatives and what solutions have you folks come up with? > My solution has been to do nothing to change my PFD, as my risk analysis for the types of paddling I do has not required any PFD modifications. I suspect that there would not be an issue with any PFD modification that was done in a reasonably neat fashion to a PFD that was purchased with the USCG seal of approval. My understanding based on a long-ago reading of the regulations is that manufacturers must submit their PFDs for testing according to certain specific protocols to earn the 'Coast Guard Approved' rating, that most USA laws require that boaters have a USCG-approved PFD, and that any modification voids that USCG seal of approval. I'd be willing to bet that if modifications are done to enhance safety without materially affecting the basic construction of the PFD, most safety officials would not go by the technical letter of the law. Have any Paddlewisers experienced problems with modified PFDs? I'm also curious as to what sort of PFD regulations our non-USA Paddlewisers have? Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 20 23:39:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18249 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18244 Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com (imo-r06.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06040 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.90.191297c2 (16339) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <90.191297c2.28b35c0c_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:39:08 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10527 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dear Paddlefolk, I am an advanced paddler, 5 feet 3 inches of height 115 pounds of mass. Any thoughts about craft? Lori Santa Cruz, CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 02:50:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA17864 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17831 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05532 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200108210950.CAA05532_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 5162 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 2001 09:50:07 -0000 Received: from brln-d932317b.pool.mediaways.net (HELO gmx.de) (217.50.49.123) by mail.gmx.net (mp003-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 09:50:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:23:32 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: jackie_at_intelenet.net Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id CAA17834 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie wrote: > Looking forward to details of the trip as they occur. The radio officer of the British oil platform Thamesfield just called me. They are now between Thamesfield and Bessemer, two oil / gas platforms in the North Sea. That is approximately 80 km's (roughly 43sm) from their start. They are now 16 hours on the water. George had been predicting a speed of about 5 km / h (close to 3kn) and so far, they are "on time". No difficulties have been reported. Next contact will probably be tonight (Central European Time) with the Hamburg-Harwich ferry "Admiral of Scandinavia". > Are they paddling folding kayaks? No. They are hard-core hardshell kayakers (although George has gotten an old folding single lately ;-)). They have been thinking of using a folding kayak, though. But there was this Valley Aleut Sea II of Jochen, a perfect boat for such a trip ... :-) After the trip, they will file a "modern expedition report" which will be published on the web. There, they will report in detail about their equipment, why they choose what etc. Cheers, Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 03:26:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00714 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00707 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.tau.ac.il (post.tau.ac.il [132.66.16.11]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29460 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joshlap.post.tau.ac.il (gilman422.tau.ac.il [132.66.160.51]) by post.tau.ac.il (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7LAQD827233; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:26:13 +0300 (IDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010821132309.024478d0_at_post.tau.ac.il> X-Sender: teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:25:23 +0200 To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net In-Reply-To: <200108210950.CAA05532_at_ns.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Marian: This is very exciting! Please keep these reports coming. Godspeed to Jochen and George! They are an inspiration to us all. Josh At 11:23 21/08/01, Marian Gunkel wrote: >Jackie wrote: > > > Looking forward to details of the trip as they occur. > >The radio officer of the British oil platform Thamesfield just called me. >They are now between Thamesfield and Bessemer, two oil / gas platforms in >the North Sea. That is approximately 80 km's (roughly 43sm) from their >start. They are now 16 hours on the water. George had been predicting a >speed of about 5 km / h (close to 3kn) and so far, they are "on time". > >No difficulties have been reported. Next contact will probably be tonight >(Central European Time) with the Hamburg-Harwich ferry "Admiral of >Scandinavia". > > > Are they paddling folding kayaks? > >No. They are hard-core hardshell kayakers (although George has gotten an >old folding single lately ;-)). They have been thinking of using a folding >kayak, though. But there was this Valley Aleut Sea II of Jochen, a perfect >boat for such a trip ... :-) > >After the trip, they will file a "modern expedition report" which will be >published on the web. There, they will report in detail about their >equipment, why they choose what etc. ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 07:29:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14288 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14282 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA00518 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200108211428.HAA00518_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 23766 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 2001 14:28:34 -0000 Received: from brln-d9322d5d.pool.mediaways.net (HELO gmx.de) (217.50.45.93) by mail.gmx.net (mp001-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 14:28:34 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:24:14 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id HAA14283 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick wrote: > Marian, this sounds very exciting - and a bit scary! Can you clarify > what > "Bf. 5" means? I'm accustomed to seeing wind speeds in knots, and I'm > not > sure what kind of measurement "Bf." is. If I had to guess, I'd say it's > the > "Beaufort Wind Scale" although I'm not sure "Beaufort" is the correct > word. Bf. is an abbrevation for Beaufort, the old wind scale system from the 18th (??) century. 5 Bf. means wind speeds between 16 and 21 knots. Fortunately, the wind forecasts look better now. There will be speeds of about 15 knots today and tonight and it will slowly decrease to the 5-10 knot area. It will mostly be winds from the south and southeast while Jochen and George are heading basically east - eastnortheast. If they are progressing like that and the weather doesn't change dramatically, they might reach land (Cuxhaven, that is) on Saturday morning. Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 07:29:38 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14320 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14315 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10608.mail.yahoo.com (web10608.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.172]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA00566 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010821142932.79685.qmail_at_web10608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.184.21] by web10608.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:32 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Anyone using HipGrips? To: Kerry Doubleday <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I don't use them regularly, but I tried them in a buddy's kayak on Saturday. They work just as advertised, and would probably be a great solution for a loaner or multi-paddler boat. They would be great for touring as well--blow them up for ugly water, loosen them for calm stuff. You could also compensate for varying layers of clothing beneath a drysuit. Shawn Kerry Doubleday <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com> wrote: >Has anyone had the chance to try the inflatable HipGrips from Radical >Gear (www.radicalgear.com)? I am considering these for our family fleet >as they seem to allow for varying hip widths. Any feedback regarding >effectiveness for touring would be appreciated. Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 08:11:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29127 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29092 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27595 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-209.244.176.223.Dial1.NewYork2.Level3.net [209.244.176.223]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA21763; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01c12a53$f7cddb00$dfb0f4d1_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com>, "Kerry Doubleday" <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <20010821142932.79685.qmail_at_web10608.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Anyone using HipGrips? Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:14:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Feathercraft has a similar setup called the HipFitKit. It works very well for all its models and probably could be adapted to hardshells...but I don't know that for sure. ralph ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Baker" <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> To: "Kerry Doubleday" <kdoubleday_at_hfx.andara.com>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Anyone using HipGrips? > I don't use them regularly, but I tried them in a buddy's kayak on > Saturday. They work just as advertised, and would probably be a great > solution for a loaner or multi-paddler boat. > > They would be great for touring as well--blow them up for ugly water, > loosen them for calm stuff. You could also compensate for varying > layers of clothing beneath a drysuit. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 08:18:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00131 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00126 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exeter.exeter.org (bogus_at_exeter.exeter.org [207.87.144.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01758 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ashton_at_localhost) by exeter.exeter.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17779; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:18:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:18:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashton Treadway <ashton_at_tundra.org> X-X-Sender: <ashton_at_exeter.exeter.org> Reply-To: <ashton_at_tundra.org> To: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> cc: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] new boat time! In-Reply-To: <000d01c12947$c2c9b3a0$7ad0150c_at_carter> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211114400.12819-100000_at_exeter.exeter.org> Organization: Pocket Baboon Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, Bob: I got to paddle a GTHV (the high-volume version of the GT) for a week in the Broken Island Group. At the time, I was 6'3", and 240 pounds. Not petite at all. :) It was a stable, forgiving boat (once I got my hips into it; up to that point, I was going over with the slightest bit of chop), but a bit snug in the cockpit for me; I found that I kept barking my shins on the coaming in front, and that my legs would get a wee bit crampy and/or try to fall asleep on longer (3-4hr) legs. When I purchased my own boat, I wound up choosing a Necky Tesla NM over the GTHV for those reasons and others, most notably cockpit fit around the hips and stability. My $.02... .ashton On Sun, 19 Aug 2001, Rev. Bob Carter wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:14:32 -0800 > From: Rev. Bob Carter <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> > To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Subject: [Paddlewise] new boat time! > > I am looking at buying a Current Designs Solitce GT or GTS or an CD > Expedition. Any opinions or suggestions out there? > > > Bob > > > in Alaska [snipped] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 08:21:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02008 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01972 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exeter.exeter.org (bogus_at_exeter.exeter.org [207.87.144.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03236 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ashton_at_localhost) by exeter.exeter.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17830; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:21:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashton Treadway <ashton_at_tundra.org> X-X-Sender: <ashton_at_exeter.exeter.org> Reply-To: <ashton_at_tundra.org> To: <KiAyker_at_aol.com> cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Deck bags In-Reply-To: <145.32e187.28b263f3_at_aol.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108211119000.12819-100000_at_exeter.exeter.org> Organization: Pocket Baboon Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, Scott: For this reason (and for deck clearance), I'm using the under-the-deck bag sold by Kathea and Ken at www.kayakfit.com; it's worked wonderfully so far, and I find that it minimizes the stability issues while not interfering with my legs. My $.02. .ashton On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:00:35 EDT > From: KiAyker_at_aol.com > To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Deck bags > > I had an interesting experience this last weekend. I was doing an > intermediate class on Sunday with ten people. This one fellow showed up with > all of his own equipment including a new plastic Sea Lion with a nice deckbag > fasten in front of the cockpit. I thought it looked like a pretty nice setup. [snipped] > I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? > > Scott > So.Cal. [snipped] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 08:58:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12882 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12877 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28142 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.6e.edcfdf3 (3657) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6e.edcfdf3.28b3deeb_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:57:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Deck bags CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/21/01 11:26:02 AM, ashton_at_tundra.org writes: << I have never used a deck bag, but at least from this one scenario it would > appear that they can significantly raise the center of gravity of a boat. Has > anyone else noticed this? >> I carry a 3 lt. water bladder, a deck bag with a few things that come to maybe 8 oz., a contact tow line with 'biner, and the camera on my front deck. This is not a huge amount of weight but the water certainly isn't light. I have found absolutely no difference between a clean deck, as when I'm just out off shore practicing, and when I'm fully loaded for all day trips. The only thing I could think of that might affect balance is if he has a substantial amount of weight off the center line of the boat. Even then I wonder. I have my water slightly to the left of center on my boat and the only thing I've ever suspected is that under some conditions that might be why I find I'm sitting more on my right hip than my left. Joan Spinner * * * yellow/white CD Gulfstream and a red, CD Breeze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 09:19:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19362 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19357 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11625 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LGJ5p15795 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:05 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12104 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07048 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ann.skypoint.net (ann.skypoint.net [199.86.32.19]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11717 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veslieole.skypoint.com (tc00076.skypoint.net [199.199.158.76]) by ann.skypoint.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA95543 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:41:30 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821054746.02b83df8_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: davchris/popmail.skypoint.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:49:10 -0500 To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: David Christianson <davchris_at_skypoint.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It has been many years now but I don't think that military pilots carry all survival gear on them. I would tend to think that too much gear on your PFD would decrease your survival. The military has small survival gear packs you can grab if you have time. I have always tended to have a several very small packs in my kayak for that purpose. I probably should rethink these packs, what goes in them, maybe make them floatable and put some long floating rope handles on them. Maybe people, would have other suggestions. Dave At 03:30 PM 8/20/2001 -0800, you wrote: I modified mine by sewing a nylon mesh pouch to the back of the PFD and pack it full of various survival gear. True it no longer meets Coast Guard approval but it is more of a "life saver " with all the survival gear available. Bob in Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 09:19:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19543 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19538 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11845 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LGJYp15806 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:19:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12111 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13013 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web11607.mail.yahoo.com (web11607.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.59]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA24085 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.189.134.82] by web11607.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:05:37 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:05:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Gilman <hudsonsb_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Hudson River Event to Celebrate Handmade Boats To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hudson River Event to Celebrate Handmade Boats Craft of Craft A Hudson River Celebration of handmade boats will be held (rain or shine) Saturday, Sept. 15 from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. at Foundry Dock Park, across from the Metro North train station in the Village of Cold Spring, in the midst of the Hudson River Highlands. Bring your own handcrafted canoe, kayak or small boat to exhibit. Come to admire the variety of boats including the Storm King, a 26-foot rowboat made by local Haldane High School students. The public is invited to participate in a noon ecumenical blessing of the fleet, a nautical custom for good luck. Also there will be other paddling events, informational displays and live music. Admission is free and a food vendor will be on-site. For more details and directions, please contact Jan Thacher at (845) 265-7657 or Jack Gilman online at hudsonsb_at_yahoo.com. Camping may be had locally, contact us for more info. Sponsoring organizations incude: Building Bridges, Building Boats, Inc.; Chapel of Our Lady Restoration, Inc.; Metro-North; National Audubon Society; Scenic Hudson, Inc.; Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club and Taconic Outdoor Center. ===== * Check out the Yonkers Paddling & Rowing Club online at www.yprc.org. ---------------------------------------------- See you on the river! Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 09:21:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21457 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21432 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13810 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LGLFp15820 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:15 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12125 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03897 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07837 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id D07B99B2B; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpde42892; Tue Aug 21 08:13:53 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082108122603736 ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:26 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRK1Q>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:32 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1E_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Marian Gunkel'" <marian-list_at_gmx.de>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > For the next days, the weather is forecasted to be quite > calm. Later in the trip (Thursday and Friday), there will be > winds of up to Bf. 5 with strong gusts. > Marian, this sounds very exciting - and a bit scary! Can you clarify what "Bf. 5" means? I'm accustomed to seeing wind speeds in knots, and I'm not sure what kind of measurement "Bf." is. If I had to guess, I'd say it's the "Beaufort Wind Scale" although I'm not sure "Beaufort" is the correct word. It's in my Kayak Navigation book, but that's not with me at the moment. Wish them well, and keep us posted! Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 09:21:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21969 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21963 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14283 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LGLep15832 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:21:40 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12136 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07296 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14685 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 5ABC79B80; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdH45515; Tue Aug 21 08:29:01 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082108273529312 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:27:35 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRK19>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:27:40 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1F_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'paddlewise'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:27:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I modified mine by sewing a nylon mesh pouch to the back of > the PFD and pack > it full of various survival gear. Bob, if it's "sewn" to the back of the PFD, how do you gain access to it if you are in the water? I was thinking of attaching a bag with carbiners or something on each top corner, so that I could release one side, swing it around to my front to get into it, and the other side would still be attached incase I inadvertantly let go of it. What do you think? Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 10:49:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17609 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17604 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12787 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09342 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B829FD8.1F72D8D5_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:52:24 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Rescue clinic pix Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net As promised, some pictures of the loop-assisted paddlefloat rescue. I want to play with this some more and see how well it works for rec boats. http://home.earthlink.net/~cramersec/skr.html -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 11:22:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29689 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29682 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07069 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25468 invoked by uid 3027); 21 Aug 2001 18:21:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 18:21:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> cc: Clas Hagelstam <clas_kayaker_at_hotmail.com>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Seakayaking Videos In-Reply-To: <3B810A47.D39B4C9E_at_ckpro.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108211419300.22701-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I carry all the Performance Videos on http://www.onwatersports.com/, but not the one your are looking for. The Performance Sea Kayaking video is a great one for anyone going into an ACA instructor course.... Andree > > Clas Hagelstam wrote: > > > I'm looking for suppliers of seakayaking > > videos, especially then one showing Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence - http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ Viewit.com - Website design, maintenance, hosting Port Townsend, Washington http://www.viewit.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 11:49:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06625 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06618 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25508 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LInWp15959 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:49:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12192 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29881 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01069 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip11.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.11]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7LFEaC08823; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B827A61.315FC611_at_pacifier.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:12:33 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] TR: Jericho Bay, Maine, USA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My SO Becky, my son Ian, and I visited the Jericho Bay/Brooklin/East Deer Isle area in Maine the last two weeks. There was a lot of visiting, eating, and noshing with long-time friends who now live in Brooklin ... and, we did some paddling. This is mostly about the paddling. We spent three nights centered on one of the Maine Island Trail Association islands off Naskeag Point, just a mile or so from the only good launch point in the area (Naskeag Harbor). We actually launched from a small public ramp in Center Harbor, west of our island a few miles, adjacent to Steve White's boat building shop. (Steve White is E.B. White's grandson. E.B. wrote "Charlotte's Web.") However, that launching area is not recommended, owing to lack of both parking and "facilities." Naskeag Harbor has a portapotty and a fair amount of parking. As confirmed died-in-the-wool west coast paddlers, we were curious (and skeptical) about Maine's reputation as a paddling Mecca. Our skepticism was both confirmed and denied: this part of Maine's coast is an incredible and -- a frustrating place to paddle. What it ain't: It is not rugged. It is not wild. It is not "exciting." It is not particularly challenging. And, it sure as hell ain't isolated! (Note: further Down East -- towards Nova Scotia -- those attributes kick in.) What Jericho Bay is: Drop-dead beautiful, just gorgeous water for paddling. Also, terrifically mellow for muscle-powered craft. It's easy-going. And, most important of all: a model for how to make good use of public lands for recreation. Over a two-week span, we had temperatures running from the low 70's to the low 90's, only one day of real rain, and only two days when the wind got above ten knots! Being used to the "afternoon hurricane," we found ourselves in perpetual flinch mode, anticipating a walloping from wind. Never happened. Apparently, almost never happens ... in summer. We loved it. We basked on rocks, ate ourselves silly in camp, out of camp, and in our boats. Rowed our friend Tom's little dory around our island. Goofily ogled lobster boats as they serviced their pots. Admired the windjammer fleet and dozens of stone-lovely wooden power boats motoring by. Stared in awe at heaps of stately mansions scattered discreetly along the shoreline, genteelly placed so one megamillionaire did not have to stare into the windows of his/her neighbor. Paddled off on a couple easy day trips to distant islands with funny names (Lazygut, Opechee, Potato, and Sheep, Sheep, Hog, Hog, Little Hog, Goat -- yes, they use the same name for different islands, only separated by a few miles!). MITA deserves recognition for the sensible way they steward the islands in their stable. The management is rooted in realistic appreciation of what can work and avoids most of the trappings of "official" systems. MITA assesses an annual fee (most of which is tax-deductible). The fee provides a member with a guide to MITA islands. There is no added fee for use of MITA sites. In addition, MITA membership is not a requirement for use. Finally, MITA sends a guy around in a power boat (once a week or so?) to check on conditions and make sure no trace practices are followed. I spent a good bit of time in wonder that the "settled" coast could have an outdoor recreation system saddled with fewer rules than the systems we see out here on the "wild" coast. I'm still wondering, although the history and influence of "old money" ownership in the area of coastal Maine we visited could not be duplicated in the West. Yet, I missed the rain, the wind, the swell. If I go back, it will be for an extended on-the-water adventure, a one-way trip from somehere east of Jericho Bay to another place even further east, dodging points and currents. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 11:50:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07281 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07246 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26111 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LIoDp15972 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:50:13 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12200 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17370 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys27.hou.wt.net (sys27.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.27]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06432 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (216-119-128-95.ipset8.wt.net [216.119.128.95]) by sys27.hou.wt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA71083; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:37:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B82715C.883D565A_at_ckpro.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:34:20 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> CC: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net After attending a survival class with a former Navy Seal Trainer, Steven Sellers, I became a believer "Never Leave Home Without It". He has a two page comprehensive list for a pack style survival kit, that you might carry on your kayak. I carry these items in a dry bag in my day hatch, that can be opened in rough condition without the danger of flooding the boat. In addition, he had a small bandage size box with necessary items one might need if separated from your boat. In a pocket of my PFD, I carry 4"X5" vacuum sealed bag with the following items: 3-skyblazer flares, bivy sack, reflective signaling mirror, pencil flashlight, Gerber Strike Force (magnesium bar) for lighting fires, and a small 1"X2" bag containing cotton ball soaked in vaseline. These cotton balls will light in wet condition and help start a fire for signaling, keeping warm or cooking. I also carry a Gerber River Shorty knife on my PFD. The weight is of all of this is negligible and does not interfere with paddling, rolling... Steve teaches through Outdoor Education and Training and can be reached at 210-659-7367. Many safe returns, Chris Kuhlman Seabrook, TX Go the extra mile. It's never crowded. Rick Sylvia wrote: > "Hey", P'Wisers. > > In my first two years of Kayaking, I've heard many, many times (on P'Wise, > Sea Kayaker, Canoe & Kayak, Deep Trouble, other misc. books, videos, etc.) > how critical it is that you have certain survival gear available "on you" in > the event that you are in the water without your boat, or you have the boat > but you can't get to the gear due to the way it's stored. > > I'm referring to things like multiple flares in multiple types, dye, > strobelights, radios, mirrors, Sea Seats, food/water, whistles, knives, tow > ropes, etc etc etc...... > > How are you folks attaching all this stuff to yourselves or your PFDs? My > PFD has a couple pockets, but not large enough to get most of this stuff in > them. A side bar in Matt's "Deep Trouble" says that if you modify a PFD it > no longer is Coast Guard approved, which hinders my desire to add a > "survival bag" to the PFD in such a way that you could get to everything. > Granted, I'd rather have the gear than a theoretical "approval". > Nonetheless...... > > What are the alternatives and what solutions have you folks come up with? > > Rick > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 11:51:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09062 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09027 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27732 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LIpYp15984 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA12222 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28194 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29033 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7LGfgf10228 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:41:42 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:44:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has grab loop on one end which I was told to hang onto and not tie down to anything (like myself or my boat) till I figured out a strategy re the problem situation. On the other end, the end I throw, is a yellow pack about 4" x 6", which has the line knotted through the openings in the end, a little foam float sewn in that end inside, and on the exterior has straps with a flat snap together fastening, the kind you pinch on both sides to undo. I'm trying to visualize how to deploy this and my vision includes the bag being blown back in my face by wind or drifting away because of tidal current. I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any comments. Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 12:12:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15639 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15633 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net (ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net [198.36.160.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12559 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51112 invoked by alias); 21 Aug 2001 19:12:00 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net_at_fixme Received: (qmail 51049 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 2001 19:11:57 -0000 Received: from dialupg215.ptld.uswest.net (HELO oemcomputer) (207.225.87.215) by ptldpop2.ptld.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 19:11:57 -0000 Message-ID: <003e01c12a77$2559c700$d757e1cf_at_oemcomputer> From: "Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe" <aldercreek_at_qwest.net> To: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:26:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net What you have there is a *throw bag* meant to be thrown at someone, overhand like a football or underhand like horseshoes. The bag contains the rope until thrown. These are generally used on whitewater or for sea kayakers in rock gardens. You can also use them for a tow line with some sort of waist harness or rescue type PFD. Steve Alder Creek Kayak & Canoe N 45º 39' 47" 250 NE Tomahawk Isle Dr. W 122º 36' 16" Portland, OR 97217 Web: www.aldercreek.com Phone: 503.285.0464 Email: aldercreek_at_qwest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 9:44 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has > grab loop on one end which I was told to hang onto and not tie down to > anything (like myself or my boat) till I figured out a strategy re the > problem situation. On the other end, the end I throw, is a yellow pack about > 4" x 6", which has the line knotted through the openings in the end, a > little foam float sewn in that end inside, and on the exterior has straps > with a flat snap together fastening, the kind you pinch on both sides to > undo. > > I'm trying to visualize how to deploy this and my vision includes the bag > being blown back in my face by wind or drifting away because of tidal > current. > > I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any > comments. > > Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 12:20:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16271 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16266 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (sage.coe.uga.edu [128.192.22.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17052 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:19:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sage.coe.uga.edu (cramer.tsars.uga.edu [128.192.52.52]) by sage.coe.uga.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21160 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B82B537.A17CD2C1_at_sage.coe.uga.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:23:35 -0400 From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net D McNally wrote: > > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has > grab loop on one end which I was told to hang onto and not tie down to > anything (like myself or my boat) till I figured out a strategy re the > problem situation. On the other end, the end I throw, is a yellow pack <snip> > > I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any > comments. What you have there is a white water throw bag, a rather short one. It's designed to be used while standing on shore. Typically, you station youself downstream of a rapid where you expect people to flip and swim. When they do, you bellow "ROPE!" and fling them the bag, hanging onto the end (very important), but not tying it to you (VERY important). There are some other niceties about it, but that's the general idea. I've plucked people out of rivers dozens of times this way, and been plucked out a few times, myself. As to how you use it in a sea kayak, I'll allow someone else to answer. -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 12:41:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22435 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22430 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00840 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23539 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 2001 19:39:35 -0000 Received: from pd903d03c.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO RASCH) (217.3.208.60) by mail.gmx.net (mp010-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 19:39:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:39:51 +0200 From: Rainer Schroeter <kayaker_at_gmx.de> To: "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Modified PFDs Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <003701c12a03$02f71420$d2a82d04_at_epsrenne> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <003701c12a03$02f71420$d2a82d04_at_epsrenne> Message-Id: <20010821213605.1827.KAYAKER_at_gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.00.01 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:34:51 -0500 "Erik Sprenne" <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> wrote: > > I'm also curious as to what sort of PFD regulations our > non-USA Paddlewisers have? As for Germany its very easy: There are no regulations for kayaker, whether to have or to wear any sort of PFD or to the boat or your gear. Germans are totally self responsible (and I hope they are) for their equipment. -- Rainer Schroeter, Marburg (Lahn), Germany *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 13:03:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01201 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01195 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:03:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17608 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.12c.35ced62 (16789); Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <12c.35ced62.28b41875_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:03:01 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-21 02:42:44 EDT, ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com writes: << 5 feet 3 inches of height 115 pounds of mass. Any thoughts about craft? >> yeah, stop boasting!! :) "chubby" sandy kramer in miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 13:36:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11019 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11014 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f252.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.16.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09881 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:36:04 -0700 Received: from 63.30.28.116 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:36:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.30.28.116] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: cramer_at_coe.uga.edu, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rescue clinic pix Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:36:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F252EqxGGmNN79xavjr0000df5a_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2001 20:36:04.0782 (UTC) FILETIME=[E61B64E0:01C12A80] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Steve....great pictures, simple technique, looks good. Everyone else....if you like the Dagger Sitka Steve is using....and would like a great deal on a used one like new....see pictures at http://home.earthlink.net/~johnsonkw/ under "kayak for sale" link. ----Original Message Follows---- From: Steve Cramer To: Paddlewise Subject: [Paddlewise] Rescue clinic pix Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:52:24 -0400 As promised, some pictures of the loop-assisted paddlefloat rescue. I want to play with this some more and see how well it works for rec boats. http://home.earthlink.net/~cramersec/skr.html -- Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 13:45:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13855 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13850 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15325 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LKiup16145 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:44:56 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12347 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12883 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09293 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 3235B9BC2; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpddk7608; Tue Aug 21 15:07:11 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082115054516012 ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:05:45 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRKY4>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:05:49 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA28_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'clk_at_ckpro.com'" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Cc: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:05:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > He has a two page > comprehensive list for a pack style survival kit, that you > might carry on your > kayak. Are you able to get permission to share that list? I'd sure like to see it. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 13:58:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17321 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17316 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpgw.bnl.gov (mail_at_smtpgw.bnl.gov [130.199.3.16]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24654 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bnl.gov ([130.199.128.163]) by smtpgw.bnl.gov with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 ) id 15ZIbh-0000Ix-00; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:58:41 -0400 Received: from exchange02.bnl.gov (exchange02.bnl.gov [130.199.74.18]) by bnl.gov (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA20682; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by exchange02.bnl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <MX1L7CTW>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:56:00 -0400 Received: from LEONHARDT.bnl.gov (leonhardt.star.bnl.gov [130.199.88.87]) by exchange01.bnl.gov with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id QTB09174; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:53:28 -0400 From: "Leonhardt, William J" <wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov> To: D McNally <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010821164126.01c54e98_at_exchange01.bnl.gov> X-Sender: WJLeonhardt_at_exchange01.bnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:56:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question In-Reply-To: <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 09:44 AM 8/21/2001 -0700, D McNally wrote: > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has >SNIP >I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any >comments. > >Diane > Diane, I have the same or similar bag. I find that I am reasonably accurate by holding the loop that sticks out and throwing the bag overhand as you would throw a football (that's American football). I practiced a few times standing and then sitting in my boat and I found I could do as well sitting. I carry the throw bag, sometimes under the bungies just behind the cockpit, or under the bundgies just forward of the cockpit depending on how likely I judge I will use it on a particular paddle. When paddling alone, I generally store it behind my seat. I've not had to throw the line as yet, but I came close twice. The first time was when my wife was stuck in her kayak in shallow water on some flat rocks in the Delaware River and I thought I'd pull her free rather than chance walking on slippery rocks. Before I could throw, she wiggled enough to get free. The second time was during a swim race support in the Hudson River. A kayaker had gone in to rescue a swimmer hung up in pilings and then, following the rescue, found himself stuck on an abandoned pier which was a concrete slab pitched almost into the water. He couldn't get back into his boat and just jumped into the water next to his boat. I was near and wanted to throw him that line and tow him to safety, but I had it stowed behind the seat. By the time I got it out, another kayaker towed him. I now keep the throw bag handy when doing swim supports. Hope this helps, Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 14:10:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21536 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21500 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02787 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-289.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.47]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA03793 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:10:28 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <003401c12a86$032ab7c0$d9d1150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:12:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Garbage bags can be used to construct a survival shelter. When I taught wilderness survival we would build a shelter out of what was available in the forest (tree spruce limbs, bark leaves ect.) Basically all this leaned up against a tree or log. the garbage bags were incorporated into this to fend off the rain. Also garbage stuff full of leaves also served as a door for the shelter keeping precious body heat inside. Most importantly a garbage bag stuffed with leaves or moss serves as an insulation pad for sleeping. In a survival situation sleeping on the wet ground is going to quickly drain the heat from your body. Push come to shove the a garbage bag can serve as a rain coat or to set up a wind block if you are cold and wet. Bright colored garbage bags can be used to signal for help. They can be used to collect fresh water from rain fall, which on an island maybe the only source of fresh water. We used garbage bags because you can carry several in your back pocket and were a quick and cheap but effective survival tool. Al this reminds me ..it is time to take out the garbage...now where did I put those garbage bags? Bob -----Original Message----- From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: 'Rev. Bob Carter' <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear > garbage >> bags (a great >> survival tool), > >Interesting..... what do yo do with it? > >Rick > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 15:20:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12305 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12300 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mplspop4.mpls.uswest.net (mplspop4.mpls.uswest.net [204.147.80.14]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19302 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 67426 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 22:19:03 -0000 Received: from zdslppp84.mpls.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) (63.226.153.84) by mplspop4.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 22:19:03 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:17:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3B82DE04.21BD0DC1_at_qwest.net> From: "Dennis, Becky & Natalie" <arebecca1_at_qwest.net> To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions References: <90.191297c2.28b35c0c_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Vela (P and H), Avocet (Valley) or Romany 16 ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com wrote: > Dear Paddlefolk, > I am an advanced paddler, 5 feet 3 inches of height 115 pounds of mass. Any > thoughts about craft? > Lori > Santa Cruz, CA > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 15:45:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21678 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21671 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08068 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200108212245.PAA08068_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 26993 invoked by uid 0); 21 Aug 2001 22:45:09 -0000 Received: from b3b06.pppool.de (HELO gmx.de) (213.7.59.6) by mail.gmx.net (mp007-rz3) with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 22:45:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:29:08 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id PAA21672 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bad news: George and Jochen have abandoned their attempt to cross the North Sea this afternoon. I have been called by the Thamesfield platform to learn that they are on board of the standby vessel Raasay on their way to the platform "Viking Bravo" (spelling?). Peter, the communication officer, reported that one of them felt sick and they had water in the boat. They were off course as well (quite a bit to the North of their planned course) when they called the vessel for support. Peter also said that they have been given tea and food on board of the vessel and and both of them are okay. Once they are on the platform, it will be decided how, when and where they will be taken to land. I am glad that they had made the decision to abandon before anything serious happened. Both George and Jochen mentioned beforehand that they won't hesitate to abandon if the need should arise. I am really looking forwards to their report! A big thanks to anybody wishing them well for their trip. Cheers, Marian Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 16:25:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03750 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03745 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03883 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7LNO0p16301 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:24:00 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12448 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05521 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01431 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-67.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.67]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7LLqGZ72128 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:52:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3B82D80E.ECD05378_at_prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:52:14 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net D McNally wrote: > > I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any > comments. At Little Manatee River State Park in Florida I paddled up to the concrete dock once when the water level was very low, maybe 3'-4' below the top of the dock. Afraid I might tip my kayak over when trying to exit, I placed everything in my boat on top of the dock, including my paddle. I reached up to the dock with my hands and found a groove to stick my fingers in which was filled with green slimy goo. Ick! I promptly removed my hands and while sitting in my kayak, rinsed them off in the water. When I reached back for the dock, it wasn't there. The current was carrying me away and to the center of the river. I tried frantically to paddle with my hands, but was getting nowhere fast. Plus there was an alligator warning sign near the dock so I didn't like flailing my hands in the water. The shoreline was muddy and thick with brush and didn't look to hospitable for a landing. Plus I wouldn't want to disturb any resting gators! I had forgotten to remove my throwbag beca! use I keep it buckled to the rear of my seat. I quickly retrieved it and tossed it to the dock. There were some wood 2'x4's screwed to the top of the concrete dock, and one of them was splintered. My throw bag rope snagged on the splinter, and I was able to pull myself back to the dock and exit safely. This was at the end of the day when the park was empty. Other than that, I've used the throw bag rope to tether my kayak to a tree or something when I have gone ashore. I bought it in case I ever needed to rescue someone from the water, including myself. -Bob Matter Hammond, Indiana P.S. In a ten day period late this summer three people drowned near Indiana Dunes State Park because of the riptide. The waves come in towards shore and break over submerged sand dunes. Then water rushes back out, taking swimmers with it. Riptides are typically about 50 feet wide. If you get caught in one, instead of fighting it, swim parallel to the shore until you are out of the current. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 21 19:27:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28723 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28718 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03899 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Renabie82.tbaytel.net [207.164.213.141]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7M2QLQ15440 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:26:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3B831788.AF736DE3_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:23:05 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dip it in the water before you throw it. The weight of the water in the bag should help. (If all else fails, put a small ballast rock in it -- not one so large as to sink it -- and remember to always aim for the spot right between the eyes.) D McNally wrote: > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has > grab loop on one end which I was told to hang onto and not tie down to > anything (like myself or my boat) till I figured out a strategy re the > problem situation. On the other end, the end I throw, is a yellow pack about > 4" x 6", which has the line knotted through the openings in the end, a > little foam float sewn in that end inside, and on the exterior has straps > with a flat snap together fastening, the kind you pinch on both sides to > undo. > > I'm trying to visualize how to deploy this and my vision includes the bag > being blown back in my face by wind or drifting away because of tidal > current. > > I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of this item and any > comments. > > Diane > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 00:04:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28311 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28306 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26113 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7M74Dp16799 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:04:13 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12621 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04812 Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15641 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7M2gXf20696; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:42:34 -0700 Message-ID: <006201c12ab4$8a8a8be0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> <3B831788.AF736DE3_at_tbaytel.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:45:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'll share this with my paddling partners so they know to duck when I offer to help ;-) It will motivate them to work on their rolls and re entries ;-) Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question > Dip it in the water before you throw it. The weight of the water in the bag > should help. (If all else fails, put a small ballast rock in it -- not one so > large as to sink it -- and remember to always aim for the spot right between the > eyes.) > > D McNally wrote: > > > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. (snip) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 02:20:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10771 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10766 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fox-nep27-xch.foxboro.com ([63.100.180.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15802 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 02:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by FOX-NEP27-XCH with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) id <RF6YNJA7>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:19:56 -0400 Message-ID: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A037_at_BAARN3> From: "Blaauw, Niels" <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:22:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2654.52) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have a simular throw bag, bought for use on white water, but I modified it to use at sea. I don't throw it, I just use the bag as a nice container for the rope. At sea, you normally don't throw the rope. You paddle to the kayak to be towed, and attach the line to the bow of the bow. The kayakker in that boat can't reach his bow, so you have to attach it for him. I attached a large musketon hook (Is that english?) to one end of the line to make this easy. If you attach the rope somewhere else on the boat, or let the victim hold it in his hands, his boat will broach when you start pulling and possibly capsise. On the other end of the rope, I attached a loop to put around my body. You can't hold a rope in your and and paddle at the same time. You could try to hold it between your teeth, but I don't think it is a good idea. If you attach the rope to your boat, make sure you attach it close to the cockpit. If you attach it to the stern, it will be impossible to steer the boat with the other kayak pulling on the rope. That's why commercial towboats have such a long back deck: So that they can attach the rope near the middle of the ship. Since I have a rudder on my boat, I have to attach the rope high, so it will stay clear of the rudder. That's why I attach it to myself rather then to the boat. Although you have to attach the rope to yourself or the boat, it is a good idea to make some kind of quick release system. It is not as critical as in white water conditions, where you might be pulled off the rocks into the water, but still, there are situations where you have to save yourself first and have to drop the line. Niels. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 09:05:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20818 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20810 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00163 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MG4gp17891 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:04:42 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12871 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03675 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.snet.net (smtp.snet.net [204.60.6.55]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29011 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsmith16 (sttn-sh4-port171.snet.net [204.60.44.171]) by smtp.snet.net (8.12.0.Beta12/8.12.0.Beta12/SNET-mx-1.5/D-evisionO-evision$) with SMTP id f7MATdla007470 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301c12af5$32419f00$ab2c3ccc_at_wsmith16> From: "Wayne Smith" <wsmith16_at_snet.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <0D724A283DA7D311880300A0C9D91F52F6A037_at_BAARN3> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:28:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net This is exactly what I do. I bought an inexpensive quick-release rifle cartridge belt ($7.00 US), and loop the handle end of the rope around it. I put a stainless snap hook on the end of the rope that pays out, and now I have a combination throwbag/towing rig. Much sturdier than the towing rigs you can buy pre-assembled, and about half the price. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Blaauw, Niels <nblaauw_at_foxboro.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 5:22 AM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question > I have a simular throw bag, bought for use on white water, but I modified it > to use at sea. I don't throw it, I just use the bag as a nice container for > the rope. > > At sea, you normally don't throw the rope. You paddle to the kayak to be > towed, and attach the line to the bow of the bow. The kayakker in that boat > can't reach his bow, so you have to attach it for him. I attached a large > musketon hook (Is that english?) to one end of the line to make this easy. > If you attach the rope somewhere else on the boat, or let the victim hold it > in his hands, his boat will broach when you start pulling and possibly > capsise. > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 09:06:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21101 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21096 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00578 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MG6Qp17915 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:06:26 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12894 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22387 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:25:32 -0700 (PDT) From: SNStone_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04588 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 04:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SNStone_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.9f.1a35f904 (15891); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINID86-0822072513; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:25:13 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:25:12 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question To: <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net>, <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <9f.1a35f904.28b4f099_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Several comments regarding throwbags. First, throw bags are designed and usually used by white water kayakers from land. There are several good videos on ww rescues and how to use the throw bag. Second, I would think what you really want for sea kayaking is a tow belt. It is more likely you will need to tow someone out of trouble than needing to throw a rope to them. A throw bag, in my opinion, is not meant to be used in this manner. Third, by wearing a tow belt you are always ready to deal with an emergency. You simply grap the caraboner connected to the rope from your wait and paddle up to the kayak to be towed. There is no need to get a throw bag disconnected from under bungies, etc. When I am situations where the need for a tow is possible eminent, I go ahead and disconnect the carabiner from it's "parking place" on my tow belt and place it onto my spraydeck for quick and immediate access. Fourth, it is imperative that at tow belt be able to be released easily in an emergency. For example, you capsize. You should be able to release your tow line with one hand! Do not tie ropes around yourself. Finally, it is advisable to take a course focused on kayak rescues to learn how to properly effect rescues - the use of a tow line is one such rescue. happy and safe paddling sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 09:08:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21298 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21291 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00930 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MG80p17927 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:08:00 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12906 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04753 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27355 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id CA8889B81; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpda22845; Wed Aug 22 08:00:04 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082207583701713 ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:58:37 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRM6H>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:58:42 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA2A_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Marian Gunkel'" <marian-list_at_gmx.de>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:58:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net How's the saying go..... discretion is the better part of valor? My hat is off to them just for making the attempt, and secondly for knowing when to abandon the plan. I, as well, I'm very much looking forward to the reports. Marian, do you have any insight into what type of sickness was being experienced, how serious it was, and the cause of being so far off course (other than the obvious "they paddled in the wrong direction)? That is, was it currents, winds, a navigation error, a combination of all of them, etc.? Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 09:09:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21337 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21330 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01006 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MG8xp17938 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:08:59 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12918 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26583 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.229.128.78] ([208.229.128.78]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07981 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chqsexc10.coair.com (unverified) by (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id <T5585b802740ac08223760_at_>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:07:29 -0500 Received: by chqsexc10.nam.coair.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q8DC8JP4>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:04:54 -0500 Message-ID: <A0A1411B58FFEA47B11E67464FD4613A45D033_at_chqjexc01> From: "Scaldino, Bob" <BobS_at_coair.com> To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:05:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My girlfriend is 5' 4" and weights 115. She paddled a lot of boats and her short list came down to Perception Sole, Romany 16, and Eddyline Night Hawk. She ended up buying the Night Hawk because the cockpit was the best fit before doing any outfitting. You also might want to look at the Eddyline Falcon 16. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis, Becky & Natalie [mailto:arebecca1_at_qwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:18 PM To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Vela (P and H), Avocet (Valley) or Romany 16 ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com wrote: > Dear Paddlefolk, > I am an advanced paddler, 5 feet 3 inches of height 115 pounds of mass. Any > thoughts about craft? > Lori > Santa Cruz, CA > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 09:38:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00777 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00689 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (arctic.tamug.tamu.edu [165.95.51.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20553 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiestn ([165.95.181.95]) by arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f7MGbrm02184; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:37:53 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> To: <ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:39:27 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBJIIICLEJOLIFHKKHIEAJDBAA.wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <A0A1411B58FFEA47B11E67464FD4613A45D033_at_chqjexc01> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am responding to the recommendation of the Eddyline Falcon 16 because that is what I paddle. I'm 5'1" and although I'll admit to being in excess of 115 lbs., I'm not admitting to how much - but below 150. If you are indeed an advanced paddler and possessed of a good sense of balance and coordination, you will love the Falcon 16. It does not have a rudder on it - that's where the advanced paddling skills come into play - and it is relatively responsive for a sea kayak (i.e., it turns very well if you really lean it). It is lots of fun to play in surf, and it keeps up with the "big boys" with ease although I won't say it's necessarily the fastest boat around on a straight course (the 18' version would be better). I bought it for its responsiveness and lower volume. I sure hate being blown around in bigger boats with a lot more windage. I have done 3 day camping trips out of it with no problem although admittedly here on Gulf Coast Texas didn't have to carry a lot of cold weather gear. It's V-shaped bottom really holds a course in high wind. Difficult to turn into the wind but you can work around that. Worst paddling is with quartering following seas - superb in all other conditions I've paddled. I've had it about 3 years. Natalie Wiest Galveston TX -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Scaldino, Bob Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:05 AM To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions My girlfriend is 5' 4" and weights 115. She paddled a lot of boats and her short list came down to Perception Sole, Romany 16, and Eddyline Night Hawk. She ended up buying the Night Hawk because the cockpit was the best fit before doing any outfitting. You also might want to look at the Eddyline Falcon 16. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis, Becky & Natalie [mailto:arebecca1_at_qwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:18 PM To: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Vela (P and H), Avocet (Valley) or Romany 16 ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com wrote: > Dear Paddlefolk, > I am an advanced paddler, 5 feet 3 inches of height 115 pounds of mass. Any > thoughts about craft? > Lori > Santa Cruz, CA > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 11:00:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25771 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25766 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT) From: elias.ross_at_openwave.com Received: from oe-mp1.bizmailsrvcs.net (oe-mp1pub.managedmail.com [206.46.164.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14320 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oe-ismta1.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.26]) by oe-mp1.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with ESMTP id <20010822175747.PZMD14168.oe-mp1.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_oe-ismta1.bizmailsrv cs.net> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:57:47 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.14.128.39]) by oe-ismta1.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with ESMTP id <20010822175932.TXJN26952.oe-ismta1.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_openwave.com> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: <3B83F2FC.4C28A281_at_openwave.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:59:24 -0400 Organization: Openwave X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3-20mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <9f.1a35f904.28b4f099_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net SNStone_at_aol.com wrote: > > Third, by wearing a tow belt you are always ready to deal with an emergency. > You simply grap the caraboner connected to the rope from your wait and paddle > up to the kayak to be towed. There is no need to get a throw bag disconnected > from under bungies, etc. When I am situations where the need for a tow > is possible eminent, I go ahead and disconnect the carabiner from > it's "parking place" on my tow belt and place it onto my > spraydeck for quick and immediate access. I was wondering, since I was thinking of getting a tow line, was, isn't there a lot of danger of capsising either boat in rough conditions? If the boat being towed creeps up abeam, perhaps due to current, wind, or waves, towing may create a large sideways force. Sounds potentially dangerous, especially for those not fit to paddle. It might be okay for towing a lazy, tired, or injured paddler in good conditions, but is a tow line really practical, or is it just another accessory for kayakers to buy play around with? - Elias *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 11:46:25 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11271 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11260 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hypatia.unh.edu (root_at_hypatia.unh.edu [132.177.137.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17314 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w-fagerberg (faculty2-cis489.unh.edu [132.177.46.189]) by hypatia.unh.edu (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7MIjHk485540 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Wayne" <wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:48:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] deck bags Reply-to: wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu Message-ID: <3B83C63B.14474.10557EE_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I had the guy remove the >deck bag and stow in inside the boat, after which he re-launced, and made >it through the surf without any problems. He was noticeably more stable >without the deckbag on his deck. I have used deck bags for years and find they are quite convient for keeping things like cameras, flares, radios, lunch and water close at hand. I have never found them to affect my center of gravity (?) and certainly not my roll etc. I think a large bag might do some of those things? I use a bag I bought at REI(SitkaTM I think??), put my pump in one of the side pockets and water bottle in the other and it is pretty low profile. When I want even less profile-- I use a net bag that also serves the same kind of functions but with even less bulk. It is less stable (things slide about a little) and I can advise that if you carry your camera in such a bag cover it with aluminum foil or you will find out first hand the effect of sun heating on color film-- I did. Wayne F. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 12:12:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20091 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20084 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (mtaout.telus.net [199.185.220.235]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03494 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kit6380886a ([216.232.109.86]) by priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with SMTP id <20010822191128.UMJV140.priv-edtnes09-hme0.telusplanet.net_at_kit6380886a > for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:11:28 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010822121309.00949160_at_mail.udgroup.com> X-Sender: robm_at_mail.udgroup.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:13:09 -0700 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Rob MacDonald <robm_at_udl.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Throw Bags Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In Canada, the best reason to carry one is because the Coast Guard says you must carry 50 ft of floating rope, and this is the easiest way to keep it organized in a kayak. Other than that, I could have used one once in a canoe, trying to rescue a couple of yahoo kids who had ripped off one of our boats. No PFDs, no paddles, just bits of driftwood. They got out OK, but once out from the lee of the land, they were hooped in the strong wind. They capsized just as we put our other boat in the water. As this was April, and the water was about 5 deg. C, this was fairly critical. We were only about 3 minutes away, but the wind was so strong, it was impossible to keep on station. They were effectively anchored in the water, while we were still free to be blown right on by. A throw bag would have been great, to either drift down to them from windward, or to throw from leeward. As it was, a power boat happened along about then. They took care of the kids, we dealt with the boat. I never did get a chance to give the kids and their parents a piece of my mind, they were long gone when we got back to the beach. Rob. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 12:20:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22145 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22009 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (acaix1.UCIS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.50]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09147 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from is.dal.ca (root_at_IS.Dal.Ca [129.173.1.52]) by acaix1.ucis.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f7MJKZZ44878 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:20:36 -0300 Received: from ulli (AFrench-08.BP.Dal.Ca [129.173.88.206]) by is.dal.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f7MJKZK98842 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:20:35 -0300 From: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:20:35 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Lessons learned !? Message-ID: <3B83DBD3.2648.182C6EA_at_localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, Last weekend I was on a great paddling trip on Nova Scotia's East Shore. Despite the strong wind, which made some of the paddling hard work, the group enjoyed the two days of paddling and rowing (4 kayaks and 2 dorries = 9 people). Now to the lessons I learned and hopefully other learned as well. On day 2 of the trip one of the kayakers knocked a hole in the bottom of her S&G kayak (lesson 1: It was a good idea to fibreglass the hull of my boat, forget the extra weight and stay dry upon rock contact). She called for assistance, since at this point it wasn't clear what has happened, just that her rear end was getting soaking wet. Rafted up she opened her sprayskirt and used a sponge to bail water out. Useless, since the water came in much faster than she could squeeze the sponge out. "Use your pump!" "I didn't bring it, give me yours" (Lesson 2: Always bring all your gear, shit just waits to happen!). I store my hand pump under deck, jammed between seat and side of the hull. Was pretty hard to get it out, since my cockpit is pretty snug and my boat doesn't have a lot of freeboard.. (Lesson 3: Find a better spot to keep my pump. Maybe in front of the seat in a holder on the bottom between my legs. I really don't like it on my deck & Lesson 4: Make sure everybody carries at least ALL the Coastguard required equipment before departure). Since the water was coming in relatively fast, we decided that I would tow her in, while she kept pumping water. (Lesson 5: Need to find a better spot for my towline as well, behind the seat it is hard to get out) Towed her to the next island with a rocky beach ~100m away (Lesson 6: towing even for a short distance is no fun, leave that to other people in the group). Once on the beach we checked her boat. A 20 cm crack in the bottom with a 3 cm diameter hole in its centre (Lesson 7: Avoid contact with pointed rocks, unless you followed Lesson 1). I pulled my red e-bag out. This drybag contains all the emergency stuff I don't carry attached to myself. My repair-kit contains 5- minute epoxy and duct tape and other stuff. (Lesson 8: Everybody should carry repair material to patch holes in their boat. I did and it saved the day. Now I need to remember to buy a new pack of 5 minute epoxy). 15 minutes later we were back on route to catch up with the dorries. Thankfully the whole mishap happened in sheltered water (on the other hand outside the sheltered part were no rocks to poke holes in a boat) . Otherwise there would have been an opportunity to use all the assisted rescues and contact tows I practised in the past few weeks. On a second though this would have been more fun, at least for me... Be prepared Ulli Ulli Hoeger Dept. Physiology and Biophysics Dalhousie University Halifax, B3H 4H7 Nova Scotia, Canada Phone: INT 902 494 2673 Fax: INT 902 494 1685 Phone 2: 92 488 6796 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 13:39:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16153 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16148 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01766 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200108222038.NAA01766_at_ns.intelenet.net> Received: (qmail 6285 invoked by uid 0); 22 Aug 2001 20:38:38 -0000 Received: from b3f8d.pppool.de (HELO gmx.de) (213.7.63.141) by mail.gmx.net (mp010-rz3) with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 20:38:38 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:19:38 +0200 From: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> Reply-To: Marian Gunkel <marian-list_at_gmx.de> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] A crossing of the North Sea: England to Germany X-Mailer: Marian Gunkel's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [ger] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id NAA16149 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick wrote: > Marian, do you have any insight into what type of sickness was being > experienced, how serious it was, I'll leave the details to Jochen and George after they have returned but I have learned that sea sickness was involved. The one who experienced sea sickness feels a lot better now. > and the cause of being so far off course > (other than the obvious "they paddled in the wrong direction)? That is, > was it currents, winds, a navigation error, a combination of all of them, > etc.? I don't know about that one, either. They had a GPS with them, two separate compasses, have been working on the charts for more than one year and know well how to navigate. In that area, there are lots of oil and gas platforms to take compass bearings to. George has been on the Sea in different type of boats for many years of his live and Jochen is known for long distance kayaking as well. Before they left shore, Jochen and George interviewed both the British coast guard and some British kayakers that crossed the North Sea earlier (from England to the Netherlands) to learn more about currents in the area. So, I personally believe it was no navigation error. One detail: the winds in this area have been stronger than predicted. Ships in the area have reported their current wind situation (power and direction) to weather services. During Tuesday, the winds picked up to reach Bf. 5 (15 knots, that is) from the south (while they were heading east). Waves were well over 1m. What has finally brought them off course, when and how much is still too much speculation at the moment. I even don't know whether they might have done it intentionally. They will be home (in Germany, that is) tomorrow and I'll know more by then. I'll keep you informed. Cheers, Marian PS: You can see a photo of their start at http://seite1.web.de/Suche/?msg_id=283180 (the link will be valid for the next couple of days only). In the (German) report belonging to the picture are some mistakes (i.e. Jochen is 29, not 21 years old). Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 15:32:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22750 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22745 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17966 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MMVjp18268 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:45 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13130 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:32:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01663 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27004 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.cc.19c64ac3 (4330) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <cc.19c64ac3.28b550db_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:15:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Vancouver, BC, paddling book To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I received this via PaddleNews: " The Vancouver Paddler: Canoeing and Kayaking in Southwestern British Columbia by: Glen Stedham A comprehensive guide to canoeing and kayaking in and near Vancouver, including rivers, lakes, and ocean. Trip descriptions contain detailed driving directions to access points as well as photographs. Both roads and waterways are shown on clear and easy to read maps. Trips are rated from novice trips suitable for parents with children to challenging. http://www.paddling.net/Bookstore/ " sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 15:32:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22757 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22752 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18173 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MMW1p18279 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:32:01 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13137 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01995 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [208.229.128.78] ([208.229.128.78]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27790 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chqsexc10.coair.com (unverified) by (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id <T5586d104520ac08223760_at_> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:14:25 -0500 Received: by chqsexc10.nam.coair.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q8DC8XT4>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:11:50 -0500 Message-ID: <A0A1411B58FFEA47B11E67464FD4613A45D038_at_chqjexc01> From: "Scaldino, Bob" <BobS_at_coair.com> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Thule Hull-A-Port Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:11:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anyone tried the Thule Hull-A-Port kayak carrier on Yakima round bars? Bob Scaldino 777/767 Fleet Material Planner Continental Airlines PH 713-324-7144 FAX 713-324-3671 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 15:36:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23134 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23129 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21806 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7MMaCp18292 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:36:12 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13153 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03387 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpimssmtpu07.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu13.email.msn.com [207.46.181.88]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04115 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway ([172.148.148.15]) by cpimssmtpu07.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3972); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:55:44 -0700 From: "Sidney Stone" <snstone_at_msn.com> To: <elias.ross_at_openwave.com> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:54:12 -0700 Message-ID: <NFBBKNFDCLKJCLHOLBAIMEMACCAA.snstone_at_msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B83F2FC.4C28A281_at_openwave.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Aug 2001 19:55:45.0316 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E67EE40:01C12B44] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net a tow line in my opinion and most of people i paddle with is one of the most, if not the most, important safety gear I carry when paddling - especially in a group. Like many things not understanding how to tow and the use of a tow belt/line can be dangerous and that is why i said one should get proper training and then practice towing in various ocnditions. I also recommend carrying a knife easily accessible when using a tow line. sid -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of elias.ross_at_openwave.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:59 AM Cc: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question SNStone_at_aol.com wrote: > > Third, by wearing a tow belt you are always ready to deal with an emergency. > You simply grap the caraboner connected to the rope from your wait and paddle > up to the kayak to be towed. There is no need to get a throw bag disconnected > from under bungies, etc. When I am situations where the need for a tow > is possible eminent, I go ahead and disconnect the carabiner from > it's "parking place" on my tow belt and place it onto my > spraydeck for quick and immediate access. I was wondering, since I was thinking of getting a tow line, was, isn't there a lot of danger of capsising either boat in rough conditions? If the boat being towed creeps up abeam, perhaps due to current, wind, or waves, towing may create a large sideways force. Sounds potentially dangerous, especially for those not fit to paddle. It might be okay for towing a lazy, tired, or injured paddler in good conditions, but is a tow line really practical, or is it just another accessory for kayakers to buy play around with? - Elias *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 15:59:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29381 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29376 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:09 -0700 (PDT) From: HTERVORT_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06117 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HTERVORT_at_aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id y.a3.1abdf656 (26118); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <a3.1abdf656.28b59333_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:58:59 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question To: nblaauw_at_foxboro.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/22/01 2:20:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nblaauw_at_foxboro.com writes: Niels wrote: > I have a simular throw bag, bought for use on white water, but I modified it > to use at sea. I don't throw it, I just use the bag as a nice container for > the rope. > > At sea, you normally don't throw the rope. You paddle to the kayak to be > towed, and attach the line to the bow of the bow. The kayakker in that boat > can't reach his bow, so you have to attach it for him. I attached a large > musketon hook (Is that english?) to one end of the line to make this easy. > If you attach the rope somewhere else on the boat, or let the victim hold it > in his hands, his boat will broach when you start pulling and possibly > capsise. > In a message dated 8/21/01 11:52:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net writes: > > I'd like to hear about instances of successful use of (a throw bag) and any > comments. > Niels and all, I sent the reply below to Diane the other day and failed to copy to the list. For towing -- as others have eloquently stated, a tow system is superior to jury-rigging a throw bag. However, the throw bag provides a means to get a line to a paddler who is in trouble, and in a location or conditions where it would be unsafe for the rescuer to approach them. The following comments were based on the assumption Diane knew this: Diane, I like to carry a throw bag in addition to my short and long tow systems when leading trips, especially if the route or plans include sea caves or rock gardens. I've never actually used one in anger, but I have had situations where one would have made recoveries from a tight spot easier or better. > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. It has > grab loop on one end which I was told to hang onto and not tie down to > anything (like myself or my boat) till I figured out a strategy re the > problem situation. On the other end, the end I throw, is a yellow pack about > 4" x 6", which has the line knotted through the openings in the end, a > little foam float sewn in that end inside, and on the exterior has straps > with a flat snap together fastening, the kind you pinch on both sides to > undo. > The flat strap and side-release buckle are good for securing the bag for storage. You should carry two carabiners or just clip one biner to the loop on the working end of the rope and the second onto the loop coming from the bottom of the bag. This will allow you to use the bag in a number of ways. > I'm trying to visualize how to deploy this and my vision includes the bag > being blown back in my face by wind or drifting away because of tidal > current. This could happen :^) Some ways to deploy that might work: 1. Always aim for a spot beyond and slightly upwind and/or up current of the person you're throwing to. 2. Hold the working end of the rope and throw bag like a baseball or football. Easier if standing. 3. Practice both throwing and re-stuffing while sitting in your kayak *on the water* and also while standing on shore. 4. If the first throw misses while standing on shore, don't take the time to re-stuff the rope. Pull it in hand-over-hand and let it snake into a loose pile at your feet. Step on the loose end or tie to a tree. Fill the throw bag with water, grip the rope 2-3 feet above the bag and then swing it around your head to gain momentum before throwing -- the water will give weight to help the bag carry (no, ballast rocks are a no-no here). Practice. 5. In high winds or other conditions where throwing directly to the victim won't work, try throwing where drift will carry it to them or move your boat to pull the bag over to them. move upwind/upcurrent. Attaching an inflated paddle float might give the throw bag enough buoyancy and sail area to allow you to drift it through areas it otherwise wouldn't go. Now that you think you might be able to get the working end to the victim, you should be asking "Then what?" If you are going to be using this on the river, pick up an authoritative book on river rescue or (better still) do a river rescues class. In sea kayaking, most rope rescues will be boat-to-boat or boat-to-swimmer. In either case, with sea kayaks you need a convenient, quick and workable way to hook the rope to the ends of the kayak(s). Holding onto the rope works for a swimmer, but not for the boaters involved. Both the in-boat rescuee and the rescuer must have their hands on their paddle, able to paddle, steer and/or brace. This requires connecting the rope to the boats. For the boats to track, the tie-off should be at the ends of the boats. For safety, there should be a quick-disconnect on each boat. To accomplish this, each boat can be equipped with a painter (a bow line) which (in the simplest option) is tied to the front of the boat, run back to the cockpit over the top of all other lines, hardware and cargo, and either tied off with a slip knot like a slippery reef knot or slippery (quick-release) sheet bend, or locked into a jam cleat. In use, the rescuee clips the biner on the end of the throw bag to his painter. As the rescuer pulls away, the biner slides along the painter to the bow, providing an in-line tow from the bow. If a rescuee needs to rid themselves of the tow, they release the painter at the slip knot or cleat. The rescuer can either do the same, hooking the working-end biner to her painter and back away from the rescuee (providing constant visual connection with the rescuee), or she could hook her vest-, waist-, or boat-mounted tow system to the throw bag line and use that to tow with. > Diane > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 16:01:56 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01889 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01884 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys27.hou.wt.net (sys27.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.27]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08788 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (216-119-131-123.ipset11.wt.net [216.119.131.123]) by sys27.hou.wt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26390; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:01:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:58:21 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> CC: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net By request and with permission to reproduce, here is a very complete list of survival gear compliments of Steve Sellers from Outdoor Education and Training. This gear goes into a dry bag in the day hatch of my Azul-Sultan. As I mentioned in a previous post, I carry in a pocket of my PFD, a 4"X5" vacuum sealed bag with the following items: 3-skyblazer flares, bivy sack, reflective signaling mirror, pencil flashlight, Gerber Strike Force (magnesium bar) for lighting fires, and a small 1"X2" bag containing cotton ball soaked in vaseline. These cotton balls will light in wet condition and help start a fire for signaling, keeping warm or cooking. I also carry a Gerber River Shorty knife on my PFD. The weight of all of this is negligible and does not interfere with paddling, rolling... Chris Kuhlman Cutting Tools o Quality Name Brand 2/3 blade pocket knife o Hunting knife o Small axe o Multi Tool Fire Starter o Metal match o Magnesium bar o Waterproof matches o Candle Shelter o Tarp o Poncho o Nylon rope o Space blanket First Aid Kit o Personal Medicines o Bandaging o Tape o Soap o Moleskin o Water purification o Tweezers o Sunscreen o Pain medicine o Insect repellent o Antibacterial Signaling o Mirror o Whistle o Flare kit o Transponder Water container o Freezer bags o Survival kit container Fishing kit o Small hooks o Light line o Sinkers Misc. Items o Dental floss o Safety pins o Sewing needles o Small compass o Jerky/hard candy o Large trash bags o Toilet paper o Small flashlight o Emergency phone numbers o Coins Always let someone know where you are going and when you intend to return! Check the weather report for your route and destination! > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 17:35:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29534 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29529 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.140]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12248 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010823003447.NMJJ13197.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:34:47 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c12b6c$18b211b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:39:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> > By request and with permission to reproduce, here is a very complete list of > survival gear compliments of Steve Sellers from Outdoor Education and Training. > Cutting Tools > o Small axe A folding saw is better than an axe. The one in my big Swiss army knife (the kind with the shaped handle and locking blade) will easily tackle deadfall up to three inches in diameter. No point in dealing with bigger than that. Small stuff doesn't need to be split to burn just fine. As they say, "Native gets heat from a fire. White man gets hot chopping wood." > Signaling > o Transponder Transponder is for the rich. > > Water container > o Freezer bags I use a Platypus zip bottom bladder. Much tougher than a freezer bag and will stay closed when full. I chose the zip bottom version because it is easier to fill with water from various sources than the tiny opening on a regular platypus bladder. I use the Pristine brand water purification system in the emergency kit (filter under ordinary conditions). > Misc. Items > o Large trash bags As someone else (Rev Bob?) suggested - I'd put this in the emergency shelter category. Good list in general, though a little more extensive than what I'd consider "survival". Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 18:58:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24034 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24029 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04748 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7N1xEl11891 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:14 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c12b77$35a08760$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> <002601c12b6c$18b211b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: [Paddlewise] Built-in compass question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Apparently there is the option of having a compass built in at the factory, with the Ellesmere. I think the Elle looks like the boat for Don, my paddling friend who has been trying out boats before buying. What are your thoughts on / experiences with built-in compasses? The only experience I have had is that a friend I paddled with a number of years ago had an Eddyline Wind Dancer with a built in compass and liked the feature but found that on trips on which kayaks get stacked up and / or loaded very closely (eg on the Lady Rose down the Alberni Inlet) he was apprehensive that the compass could get broken. Any pros / cons appreciated. Thanks :-) Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 18:59:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24213 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24208 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05093 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7N21Ll12748 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:01:21 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c12b77$818ba600$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "Diane" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> <002601c12b6c$18b211b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: [Paddlewise] Throw bag thanks :-) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:01:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks to everyone who had suggestions and comments about the throw bag. It was a very helpful discussion for me. ~Diane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 19:43:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08588 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08582 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04842 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip76.ast7.pacifier.com [66.43.11.76]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7N2fjC27571; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B846CEF.25B78F1A_at_pacifier.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:39:43 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Built-in compass question References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> <002601c12b6c$18b211b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> <001101c12b77$35a08760$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Diane wrote: > What are your thoughts on [snip] built-in compasses? Depends on the type. If it is readily dismountable, such as the Sailor II from Aquameter, then no need to fear theft, or damage when the yak gets banged in transit or in surf. The Sailor II mounts to a circular plate that can be attached (either double sticky tape or screws) to any flat surface on the deck of a kayak. Many kayaks have such a circular flat spot molded in. If the yak has no flat spot, then mount the compass to the outside of a 4-inch plastic pipe end cap, carve/sand the open end to fit the deck profile, and then fix bungies with hooks to go to padeyes at a convenient distance from the cockpit. This is not really a "built-in" compass, but I've had very good success with this arrangement. I think it is as durable as any. Avoid, at all costs, any compass mount which requires a large hole be put through the deck (normally to fit the lower end of the compass inside the deck). The sucker will leak, and sure as shootin', that compass will get whacked someday. The large hole also weakens the deck. In this part of North America, NWOC, Alder Creek, and Pacific Wave all sell the Sailor II. Have never seen it at West Marine. Runs about US$50, last time looked. There is a close copy of the Sailor II put out by Ritchie, white with blue numerals, at about the same price, but I find the Sailor II, with white numerals on a black card, much more visible in poor light. BTW, Diane, I think we had this same discussion about 4-5 years ago. Or am I suffering from oldtimer's disease? <g> -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 19:58:06 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12148 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12143 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:57:47 -0700 (PDT) From: volinjo_at_juno.com Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.73]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12942 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yTmoM4onTJyg4drQy4Wmde6sG3R4r4KhyREziyPAR9eqRqeglXVbkQ=="> Received: (from volinjo_at_juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GDHCN3MX; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:57:33 EDT To: wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu Cc: ECOEXPLOR_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:42:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Message-ID: <20010822.225805.-3987695.2.volinjo_at_juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Natalie - or anyone else Do you have any experience with the 18' Falcon? I currently paddle a Romany 16, which I love, but the group that I paddle with is all getting Explorers and Greenlander Pros, and most of them paddle faster than I do to begin with, so I'm now looking for a faster boat. But I'm spoiled, and I want one that behaves like my Romany. I tried the Explorer, but it's too big a boat for me. I tried the Falcon briefly, at a demo, and really liked it. It seemed not only fast but very responsive. Even at 18 feet long, it turned beautifully, I guess because it leans to well. But that was maybe 1/2 hour on flat water, so it's not enough to make me go out and buy the boat. I will try to paddle one again, for a longer time and in more interesting water, but that's not so easy to arrange. For beginners, though, I'd love to know what experience other people have had. Joan On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:39:27 -0500 "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> writes: > I am responding to the recommendation of the Eddyline Falcon 16 > because that is what I paddle. If you are indeed > an advanced paddler and possessed of a good sense of balance and > coordination, you will love the Falcon 16. It does not have a > rudder on > it - that's where the advanced paddling skills come into play - and > it is > relatively responsive for a sea kayak (i.e., it turns very well if > you > really lean it). It is lots of fun to play in surf, and it keeps up > with > the "big boys" with ease although I won't say it's necessarily the > fastest > boat around on a straight course (the 18' version would be better). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 20:09:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15211 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15206 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffy.pacificcoast.net (buffy.pacificcoast.net [216.86.100.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19828 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from default (216-86-114-45.gen.pacificcoast.net [216.86.114.45]) by buffy.pacificcoast.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7N3Awl06956 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01c12b81$3afcb4e0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> From: "D McNally" <dmcnally_at_pacificcoast.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> <002601c12b6c$18b211b0$c4bf7018_at_meatball> <001101c12b77$35a08760$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> <3B846CEF.25B78F1A_at_pacifier.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Built-in compass question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:01:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Snork;-) No, it's me with oldtimer's; yes, we did have a discussion very much like this. Only I believe the discussion then was about compasses generally, and I *did* buy the Sailor II with the white and black :-) I *still* have not got it attached though and am using a hand held. Sigh. Your method sounds good and I need to get to it along with the D rings! I'm more interested here in any comment on built in, and your comment re not cutting a hole in the deck to accommodate one is ah, "spot on" ;-) Diane, ol'timer > > BTW, Diane, I think we had this same discussion about 4-5 years ago. Or am I > suffering from oldtimer's disease? <g> > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 20:15:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17927 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17922 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25522 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thomas (ip8.pm3-1.usw.isdn.nwlink.com [209.20.134.8]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05076 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:13:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Thomas Mitchell" <mitchell_at_nwlink.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:19:46 -0700 Message-ID: <OJEBLFLBGFHEGPBEICKKMEMECFAA.mitchell_at_nwlink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20010822.225805.-3987695.2.volinjo_at_juno.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I've seen lots of Romany recommendations but for the small person in the original post, I think the P&H Vela would be the better option. The Romany is a great boat, I have one and paddle it often. However it's _heavy_. Compared to the Vela, especially in the kevlar layup, it's _really, really heavy_. When I bought my Sirius, my wife demo'd the Vela and loved it. She's 5'4", 102lb but very strong from her rock climbing background. I was ready to shell out the dough for the Vela but she opted to use my Romany when necessary since she do enough touring to justify the new boat (she prefers surfing). Try them all and have fun, Thomas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 20:36:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24031 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24026 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08315 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thomas (ip8.pm3-1.usw.isdn.nwlink.com [209.20.134.8]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA08547; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:34:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Thomas Mitchell" <mitchell_at_nwlink.com> To: "Thomas Mitchell" <mitchell_at_nwlink.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:40:48 -0700 Message-ID: <OJEBLFLBGFHEGPBEICKKEEMFCFAA.mitchell_at_nwlink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <OJEBLFLBGFHEGPBEICKKMEMECFAA.mitchell_at_nwlink.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net That should read: ...doesn't do enough touring... T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Thomas Mitchell Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:20 PM To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] P and H Vela-Any Opinions I've seen lots of Romany recommendations but for the small person in the original post, I think the P&H Vela would be the better option. The Romany is a great boat, I have one and paddle it often. However it's _heavy_. Compared to the Vela, especially in the kevlar layup, it's _really, really heavy_. When I bought my Sirius, my wife demo'd the Vela and loved it. She's 5'4", 102lb but very strong from her rock climbing background. I was ready to shell out the dough for the Vela but she opted to use my Romany when necessary since she do enough touring to justify the new boat (she prefers surfing). Try them all and have fun, Thomas *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 20:51:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28419 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28382 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16786 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Renabie104.tbaytel.net [207.164.213.123]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7N3oLk163280 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:50:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3B847CAF.20C5D282_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:46:57 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <20010821110537.9269.qmail_at_web11607.mail.yahoo.com> <004301c12a60$99739380$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> <3B831788.AF736DE3_at_tbaytel.net> <006201c12ab4$8a8a8be0$2d7256d8_at_pacificcoast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The reason for beaning in the face is to try to get a reaction from the swimmer -- hopefully they will bring their hand up to protect their face, and make contact with the bag or rope in the process. You'd be surprised at how some folks will not think to grab ahold. I have a friend who weights his bag with a stone (he is an EMT and raft guide). I've neve seen him miss. My preference, however, with my primary bag is to weight it with washers along the nub of rope inside the bag, and then add on another layer of foam to keep it floating. It throws much more quicky and accurately this way. Sometimes, however, this simply is not enough. On one occasion my friend and I kept nailing a swimmer in the face, but she just kept flailing about shouting "HELP! HELP! HELP!", then getting sucked to the bottom of the hole, then getting spat up again a few yards down stream, then shouting "HELP! HELP! HELP!" again as we again nailed her in the face, then getting sucked to the bottom of the hole, and so on and so on. After several cycles, we gave up beaning her, and instead launched at the same time on either side of her head so that the bags crossed behind her. This allowed us to snag her, so all worked out fine, but I'd rather never have to deliberately make a tangle again. And yes, of course we had told her that she should not run that drop, and had explained exactly what would happen if she did run it, but unfortunately some folks just won't listen. BTW, here is a series of pics of my friend running that drop quite nicely. Fast approach http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244949.jpg Power through tongue of first hole http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244950.jpg Layback and rotate toward corner while entering terminal hole http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244951.jpg Complete rotation toward corner while in meat http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244952.jpg Complete layback and use water pouring down from upstream to push back deck toward corner http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244953.jpg Accelerate across face and pop up out at corner http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244954.jpg Land outside of hole on a nice low brace http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/4444/244955.jpg Cheers, Richard Culpeper D McNally wrote: > I'll share this with my paddling partners so they know to duck when I offer > to help ;-) > It will motivate them to work on their rolls and re entries ;-) > > Diane > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Culpeper" <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> > To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question > > > Dip it in the water before you throw it. The weight of the water in the > bag > > should help. (If all else fails, put a small ballast rock in it -- not > one so > > large as to sink it -- and remember to always aim for the spot right > between the > > eyes.) > > > > D McNally wrote: > > > > > I finally bought a throw bag with 50 feet of floating yellow line. > (snip) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 21:04:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02778 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02773 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (tbaytel3.tbaytel.net [206.47.150.229]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26858 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tbaytel.net (Renabie104.tbaytel.net [207.164.213.123]) by tbaytel.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7N43Rk160408 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:03:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3B847FBE.C73652C7_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:00:00 -0400 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question References: <9f.1a35f904.28b4f099_at_aol.com> <3B83F2FC.4C28A281_at_openwave.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Yes, all the hazards you have identified are quite real, and there are a few additional ones if you tow in surf or wild water. Good tow lines mitigate this by having (1) a quick release if you can free up a hand for a second (2) a low line breaking point if you can't get a hand free and (3) low breaking points for the carabiners. (And of course don't forget the PFD's knife to cut the line if all else fails.) A tow line is like many pieces of equipment -- it can be of tremendous use if properly used, but can bring a false sense of security to those who do not know how to use it. Cheers, Richard Culpeper elias.ross_at_openwave.com wrote: > > I was wondering, since I was thinking of getting a tow line, was, isn't > there a lot of danger of capsising either boat in rough conditions? If > the boat being towed creeps up abeam, perhaps due to current, wind, or > waves, towing may create a large sideways force. Sounds potentially > dangerous, especially for those not fit to paddle. > > It might be okay for towing a lazy, tired, or injured paddler in good > conditions, but is a tow line really practical, or is it just another > accessory for kayakers to buy play around with? > > - Elias > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 22 22:17:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24035 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24030 Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA11650 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 39753 invoked by uid 3027); 23 Aug 2001 05:16:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 05:16:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question In-Reply-To: <3B847CAF.20C5D282_at_tbaytel.net> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108230107450.32375-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I have to step in with the stone recommendation - having been a raft guide and trainer (and now an EMT)- I used many a throw bag over fifteen years and one thing we always said was to remove the carabeaner from the bag before throwing to prevent further injury. Most bags are attached to the raft with a carabeaner (or is it beener...). Many times the swimmer is so confused they don't see the bag coming and it could bonk them on the head. It's important to throw the bag so the swimmer can reach it if they don't happen to catch it. If you throw it upstream of the swimmer, they can back paddle to it. If you throw it downstream, and their body is lower in the river and catching more current, they may be able to swim/float to it and assume the proper position of holding it under their chin....if you miss you can have your crew re-position you, coil the rope one of a few recommended ways, dip it in the water for weight, and toss is again. One nice thing about rafting is having the crew position the raft, in a kayak it's a little more difficult to do it all - thus the tendency to use a tow bag/line... Andree Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence - http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 05:55:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13245 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13240 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:22 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04994 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.121.31d457c (3735) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <121.31d457c.28b6572a_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:55:06 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/23/01 12:07:32 AM, culpeper_at_tbaytel.net writes: << (2) a low line breaking point if you can't get a hand free and (3) low breaking points for the caribiner >> I question this because I don't see how a tow rope or 'biner can be weak enough for a trapped swimmer to break but be strong enough to tow in any kind of water that wasn't totally flat. Both the commercial and home made ones look very sturdy to me. My thought has always been that I have to not get tangled up in the first place or just cut my way out. I wouldn't even think to spend the time and energy trying to muscle my way out. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 05:56:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13406 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13401 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05214 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id FAA05511; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010823084828.018299f8_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:56:35 -0400 To: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs Avoidance Cc: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <3B7F5681.E2A05CAC_at_pacifier.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 11:02 PM 8/18/2001 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Here's the difference: I have many times been on a nominal "collision course" >with a pleasure boater, recognized that, and made the accepted large, obvious >course change to signal my intentions. And, to my intense frustration, about >30 % of the time, the pleasure boater corrects __into__ me!! So, I correct >again, and that usually makes a collision unlikely. Out on Lake Winnipeasaukee, my only time on that large, rocky, high-speed, heavily used lake, I had to turn away from the path of several high-speed boats. Sticking near shores in rocky coves gave some relief but at one point I had to cross a major passage, only a couple of hundred yards wide. No traffic was nearby so I scrambled across. When nearing the middle a large, fast boat made a turn and came my way. I paddled hard for the safety of a nearby rock and he added speed and corrected toward me. I turned and paddled harder and he turned to cut between me and my protective rock only 20 or 30 yards away. At this point I hoped the bozo would hit the rock! I thought for a moment I might tell the police patrol about this idiot, but as the big boat passed I could read lettering on his side "P-O-L-I-C-E". At least he didn't hit me. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 08:13:46 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26200 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26195 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.83]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01559 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010823151311.LHFL1497.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c12be6$cfc2d810$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108230107450.32375-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:18:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Andree Hurley" <ahurley_at_viewit.com> > It's important to > throw the bag so the swimmer can reach it if they don't happen to catch > it. If you throw it upstream of the swimmer, they can back paddle to it. > If you throw it downstream, and their body is lower in the river and > catching more current, they may be able to swim/float to it A couple of posts have mentioned throwing the bag upstream, upwind etc. I've been taught (MKC) that the person rescuing shouldn't waste any time trying to decide where to throw the bag. Trying to take into account the wind, current etc is beyond what most folks can do, especially in an emergency. Therefore, just throw it _at_ the swimmer. Having practiced this in WW and seen the results, it makes perfect sense. The best advice, IMHO is therefore to forget the fancy stuff and throw it at the swimmer. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 08:17:41 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26673 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26663 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imap.intac.net (imap.intac.net [199.173.27.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03179 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust67.tnt3.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.39.102.67]) by imap.intac.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7NFFxP24905 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:16:00 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c12be6$4d9d2020$4366273f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108230107450.32375-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:14:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: "Andree Hurley" > ....and one thing we always said was to remove the carabiner from the bag before throwing to > prevent further injury. Most bags are attached to the raft with a > carabeaner (or is it beener...). Biner. And Yes, I can recollect one injury wherein the throwbag had a rock in it and the weight lacerated the recipients face. One of the rationales for a bagged rope is that the increased mass -- By Itself -- is easier to throw. > > It's important to > throw the bag so the swimmer can reach it if they don't happen to catch > it. If you throw it upstream of the swimmer, they can back paddle to it. > If you throw it downstream, and their body is lower in the river and > catching more current, they may be able to swim/float to it and assume the > proper position of holding it under their chin....if you miss you can have > your crew re-position you, coil the rope one of a few recommended ways, > dip it in the water for weight, and toss is again. One nice thing about > rafting is having the crew position the raft, in a kayak it's a little > more difficult to do it all - thus the tendency to use a tow bag/line... In any course or refresher I've taken with Charlie Walbridge this consideration always comes up. And the answer is always: Why are you throwing the rope to deliberately miss the victim?? Lay the rope across his chest. Then you don't force the victim to swim or make maneuvers that you don't know for sure he Can make. How do you consistently accomplish this? -- same as getting to Carnegie Hall; practice, practice, practice. Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 08:24:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29603 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29597 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (arctic.tamug.tamu.edu [165.95.51.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08892 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiestn ([165.95.181.95]) by arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f7NFOHm08028 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:24:17 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: Rendezvous 2001 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:25:48 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBJIIICLEJOLIFHKKHCEBLDBAA.wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Houston Canoe Club's fall Rendezvous has a new location - announcement follows. We will have quite a number of well known sea kayaking and other paddlesports instructors: Ken Fink, Wayne Horodivich, Karen Knight, Gorden Black, Ben Kvanli, Mark Molina, Harvey Golden, and Dunbar Hardy. Come and join us in October! Natalie Wiest, Houston Canoe Club Houston/Galveston TX USA News Flash from the HCC Rendezvous 2001 Committee New Millennium for the Southwestern Canoe Rendezvous October 12-14, 2001 For 2001 the Houston Canoe Club has made the decision to move the Southwestern Canoe Rendezvous to a park-like setting in Sugar Land. Sugar Land is just southwest of Houston and is one of the fastest growing communities in the country. Their slogan is "Sugar Land has no Equal." After seeing the new site you will agree. We are proud to announce that the Fluor Corporation and the First Colony Community Services Association have offered their secluded, park-like business complex to the Houston Canoe Club for our event. It is situated at the intersection of Highway 6 and US 59 in Sugar Land. This complex is surrounded by water. A small strip of land keeps it from becoming an island. We guarantee you will be pleasantly surprised at the abundance of birds and wild life on this site. We have been looking for years for just such a site and now our wish has come true. The Houston Canoe Club feels that this new location will give us a better opportunity to share our love of paddling with more people. We should have a larger local audience to show off our great event. This location will give us a better opportunity for publicity to promote our sport. We will also have the ability to attract more exhibitors, therefore more stuff to look at and more stuff to buy. The world-class instructors you have come to expect will still be there. Individuals who have reserved a camping spot at Huntsville State Park will be receiving a refund check as soon as possible. There will be no camping at this new site, but there is a beautiful state park thirty minutes from our new site. It is the Brazos Bend State Park. We know this park is very popular, so if you plan on staying there you will need to call as soon as possible. The park reservation number is 512-389-8900. We are currently making arrangements with local hotels and motels. We will post this information on our web-site, www.houstoncanoeclub.org. All the Rendezvous clinics, workshops and activities will soon be posted on the web-site. You can then register by going to the web-site and printing the registration form and waiver. You will then need to complete and mail it to our post office box. We do not have the ability to register online. We will still be mailing the registration form. Because of this pending change, we held up the printing. You should receive these registration forms by the second week in September. Remember, Saturday night will feature a banquet and the ACA National Freestyle Canoeing Championships followed by a fun party. Please plan to hang around Saturday evening. Change is sometimes hard, but the HCC looks at this as a new beginning for Texas' favorite paddling event, the Southwestern Canoe Rendezvous. For any questions or to obtain a brochure: email rendezvous_at_houstoncanoeclub.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 08:38:30 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03384 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03373 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bemnet.pair.com (bemnet.pair.com [209.68.2.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16560 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 56251 invoked by uid 3027); 23 Aug 2001 15:37:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs_at_127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 15:37:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:37:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andree Hurley <ahurley_at_viewit.com> X-Sender: <ahurley_at_bemnet.pair.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question In-Reply-To: <002301c12be6$4d9d2020$4366273f_at_com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.30.0108231134170.48613-100000_at_bemnet.pair.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Why are you throwing the rope to deliberately miss the victim?? Lay the > rope across his chest. Then you don't force the victim to swim or make > maneuvers that you don't know for sure he Can make. > How do you consistently accomplish this? -- same as getting to > Carnegie Hall; practice, practice, practice. I went to a BCU coaching clinic last fall and the coach was a whitewater kind of guy. We did a fun progression where we first threw the rope at a still target, like a leg on a bench. Then we ran and threw it at the bench. Then we ran and threw it at a moving kayak...it was really to show progression but a good exercise on it's own. Andree Hurley Kayak Instruction Excellence http://www.onwatersports.com/KIX/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 08:43:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06062 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06056 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20941 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from do18.mindspring.com (user-2iniu2c.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.120.76]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00155 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010823041248.00a00ec0_at_pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: cakayak_at_pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 05:11:41 -0700 To: "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: F Thomas - CaKayak <cakayak_at_mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Visibility vs Avoidance + Collision Courses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net >I thought for a moment I might tell the police patrol about this idiot, >but as the big boat passed I could read lettering on his side >"P-O-L-I-C-E". At least he didn't hit me. > >-jerry. A few years ago I was paddling from the Intercostal Waterway to the Ocean at an inlet S. of Boca Raton, FL. I had to avoid pleasure boaters and finally after getting a little ways off shore I started to relax a bit. I make it a habit to keep a look out 360 Degrees around. A few minutes later I noticed a Coast Guard Cutter coming from the North, my stern, at a very high speed. I made a major course correction to the west and paddled hard. Not hard enough to avoid their BOW WAKE! It hit and picked the whole boat up and eject me straight out of the cockpit to the west. Realizing the close call / near miss / with spectacular results (though not fatal) they slowed immediately and came about. Over their loud speaker system came: "Are you alright? We will help you get back in your boat." I asked them to PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM ME! I could get back in my boat just fine without the assistance. Keep a look out in all directions. A boat moving at high speed towards you from any direction can become an immediate threat. Remember that if the boat appears to remain in one place (imagine you circled the Boat (Spot) on a glass window) and it doesn't shift left or right then you are on a collision course. A bit difficult to judge, but with practice ( You can even practice while driving if you see a plane on the horizon or traffic merging from the left or right) you will get better at it. Flying a helicopter / air ambulance in major cities with multiple airports we actually would mark the traffic sighted with a grease pencil on the cockpit windscreens by circling them. If the target remained in the same place we were on a collision course. If it got larger we were on a faster collision course. If they got smaller they were moving away from us. Sometimes the angle and lighting dose not allow as much detail as would like to determine the target's real direction of movement immediately or it even may disappear momentarily. Fred California Kayaker *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 09:34:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21445 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21440 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25325 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:34:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7NGYHp19784 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:34:17 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13693 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03825 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (arctic.tamug.tamu.edu [165.95.51.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15481 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wiestn ([165.95.181.95]) by arctic.tamug.tamu.edu (Switch-2.0.1/Switch-2.0.1) with SMTP id f7NE0rm02040 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:00:53 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> From: "Natalie Wiest" <wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: [WP Forum:] SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IN A WORLD HERITAGE AREA: THE HA LONG BAY ECOMUSEUM / VIET NAM. (+FRANCAIS) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:02:22 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBJIIICLEJOLIFHKKHAEBFDBAA.wiestn_at_tamug.tamu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am forwarding this long message for the some of you out there I know are interested in the potential of paddling in Viet Nam. I am on the named mailing list, but not a representative of the entities named so respond directly to them if this management effort interests you. Natalie Wiest Galveston TX -----Original Message----- From: moderator_at_csiwisepractices.org [mailto:moderator_at_csiwisepractices.org] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:34 AM To: moderator_at_csiwisepractices.org Subject: [WP Forum:] SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IN A WORLD HERITAGE AREA: THE HA LONG BAY ECOMUSEUM / VIET NAM. (+FRANCAIS) *************************************************************************** WISE COASTAL PRACTICES FOR SUSTAINABLE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT Pratiques côtières éclairées pour un développement humain durable Prácticas Sensatas Costeras para el Desarrollo Humano Sostenible http://www.csiwisepractices.org (username= csi; password= wise) *************************************************************************** MESSAGE: (#372) SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IN A WORLD HERITAGE AREA: THE HA LONG BAY ECOMUSEUM / VIET NAM. (+FRANCAIS) <http://www.csiwisepractices.org/?review=372> AUTHOR: Aprile Schwartz DATE: Thursday, 23 August 2001, at 11:03 a.m. ---------------------------------- (Le texte français se trouve en dessous du texte anglais) ---------------------------------- DESCRIPTION: Viet Nam is emerging from the after-effects of nearly a century of war and, following an earlier decision to adopt market-orientated economic policies, has made rapid progress towards alleviating poverty and privation amongst its rapidly expanding population. However, strong industrial and commercial development, urbanisation and growing numbers of tourists have brought great pressure to bear upon its natural environment and traditional culture. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Ha Long Bay, a World Heritage Area (WHA) of outstanding natural beauty, culture, biodiversity and unique geomorphology, in northeast Viet Nam. Ha Long Bay is a unique area of 'karst' limestone towers that have been inundated by the sea creating nearly two thousand rocky pinnacles protruding up to 200m above sea level. The bay covers just over 1500 km² and its natural resources, coral reefs, sea grass beds, mangroves and marine flora and fauna provide livelihoods for a significant proportion of the residents of Ha Long City and Cam Pha Town, a rapidly developing urban and industrial area with a population exceeding 300,000 immediately adjacent to the WHA. Abutted by Ha Long City, a vigorously developing industrial and urban area based upon major coal mining, shipping and mineral extraction activities, Ha Long Bay is under threat from water and atmospheric pollution, environmental and cultural degradation and inappropriate urban development. STATUS: A feasibility study to address these issues through the development of the bay as an Ecomuseum is nearing completion. When completed it will form the basis of the substantive development of the Ha Long Bay based on the principles of community cultural development and interpretive museology. The main activities in this project are as follows: (1) The establishment of a project team of young Vietnamese staff of the Ha Long Bay Management Department supported by two international facilitators. (2) Intensive capacity building and skills transfer, particularly in the fields of planning, data collection and integrated interpretative management of the area. (3) A comprehensive stakeholder analysis to develop strategic partnership between the Ecomuseum and key stakeholders. For example, a theme on the fishing traditions of Ha Long directly involves the floating fishing villages, fishing communes on land, fishing boat builders as well as major institutions such as the Viet Nam Institute of Oceanography, the Institute of Marine Products and local authority agencies such as the provincial Fisheries Department. (4) The development of an outline for an Interpretative Management Plan by the Department, including a number of interpretative themes, two of which are of direct relevance to the fishing industry. These include the creation of a floating interpretation centre which will feature issues pertaining to conservation of the bay's fragile and unique ecosystems and providing alternative sources of income for fishing families via tourism to encourage them to return their traditional knowledge and practices whilst improving their standard of living. Of the achievements thus far, the following are particularly relevant: (1) A Geographical Information System (GIS) preparatory study undertaken to place this powerful management tool in the hands of the managers of the bay. (2) Strengthening the capacity of the Management Department to continue the development of interpretative themes and use these in addressing local environmental and cultural issues. (3) Establishing strong links with national institutions to provide a network of expertise and support for conservation activities in the bay. (4) The commitment of the fishing community of the bay to working with the Ecomuseum to conserve fish stocks, eradicate illegal practices and mitigate pollution by effective hygienic waste disposal. LONG TERM BENEFIT: During the present decade, the establishment of the Ecomuseum will expand employment, particularly in service industries, increase awareness of the economic significance of the conservation and sustainable development of environmental and cultural resources and, by differentially favouring poor and disadvantaged groups, contribute towards further alleviation of poverty and strengthening of social cohesion. CAPACITY BUILDING AND INSTITUTIONAL STRENGTHENING: In Viet Nam, innovative practices in the field of sustainable environmental management are in their infancy. The present initiative of the Ha Long Bay Ecomuseum Feasibility Study marks the first example in Viet Nam of using an interpretive approach to strengthen environmental and cultural management capacity holistically. By building the management capacity of Ha Long Bay Management Department and expanding community and other stakeholder participation in conservation activities, protecting the environment becomes everyone's concern and not just that of the authorities and concerned organisations. PARTICIPATORY PROCESS: One of the most innovative approaches to sustainable development of the cultural, heritage and environmental resources at Ha Long Bay is the application of the concept of ecomuseology. In plain language, the museum is the territory in which the community lives. The curators are the local people who need to know themselves and their environment first before they can develop such an Ecomuseum. It is a people centred approach. The focus is on mapping the cultural and environmental resources and developing appropriate interpretive products to reanimate the region, promote conservation and enhance the quality of live of the people. The activities are planned at Ha Long Bay through the negotiation of a series of strategic partnerships between community, business and official agencies, and activities initiated in the project are now embedded in the Ha Long Bay Management Department and the Quang Ninh People's Committee. CULTURALLY RESPECTFUL: Through mapping the cultural and environmental resources, the rediscovery of traditional knowledge, skills and practices is encouraged, and regeneration occurs as part of carefully developed tourist products that also contribute to the enhancement of their value in the eyes of the local community. SUSTAINABILITY: The emphasis of this project is on direct skills transfer and the probable adoption of the approach as a model for good practice in heritage development. TRANSFERABILITY: This project is an endeavour in community cultural development whereby the essence is on advancing the project using the resources of the local community, therefore making the model adaptable to widely differing contexts. It's a process, not a framework. CONSENSUS BUILDING: This project relies upon the creation on a broad and inclusive stakeholder base. GENDER AND/OR OTHER SENSITIVITY ISSUES: Aiming to contribute to the general work of the Province, this project hopes to create a new vision, outlook and living style that corresponds with all the values of the Ha Long Bay Heritage. The struggles and achievements of Quang Ninh province have always had a profound impact on the youth and women of Quang Ninh. Emphasis is on expanding employment opportunities for women, young people and socially excluded groups thereby revaluing their social standing in the community. This project also recognizes that Quang Ninh Province has the highest incidence of HIV/AIDS and drug addiction in Viet Nam and the above groups include those most at risk. STRENGTHENING LOCAL IDENTITIES: A fundamental principle of community cultural development and of this project is that people must know themselves, their culture and their traditions before effective development can take place. DOCUMENTATION: During the development of the Ha Long Bay Feasibility Study a number of documents have been prepared. Moreover, the project aimed to increase the capacity within the Management Department for creating and maintaining a document reference centre wherein all documents pertaining to the sustainable management of Ha Long Bay are kept for future reference. EVALUATION: Existing development plans are currently being re-evaluated and resources are being set aside in readiness for the implementation of the Feasibility Study's recommendations. Ms. Aprile Schwartz, Project Officer, UNESCO, Viet Nam. **************************************************************************** ** DEVELOPPEMENT DURABLE DANS UN SITE DU PATRIMOINE MONDIAL : L'ECO-MUSEE DE LA BAIE D'ALONG / VIETNAM DESCRIPTION : Le Vietnam est en train de se sortir des conséquences de près d'un siècle de guerre. Suite à une décision antérieure d'adopter des politiques d'économie de marché, le pays a fait des progrès rapides en matière de lutte contre la pauvreté et les privations de sa population en croissance rapide. Le fort développement industriel et commercial, l'urbanisation et le nombre croissant de touristes exercent toutefois de fortes pressions sur les ressources naturelles et les traditions. Ceci est particulièrement visible dans la Baie d'Along, dans le nord est du Vietnam, un site du patrimoine mondial à la beauté naturelle remarquable, et à la culture, la biodiversité et la géomorphologie uniques. La Baie d'Along est une zone karstique unique inondée où émergent près de deux mille pinacles calcaires, certaines atteignant deux cents mètres de hauteur au-dessus du niveau de la mer. La Baie ne couvre que 1500 km2 et ses ressources naturelles, ses récifs coralliens, ses herbiers, ses mangroves et sa flore et sa faune marines pourvoient aux besoins d'une part non négligeable de la population des villes d'Along et Cam Pha. L'ensemble est une zone urbaine et industrielle au développement rapide dont la population dépasse 300 000 habitants dans les environs immédiat du site du Patrimoine Mondial. La ville d'Along dans le fond de la baie est une zone industrielle et urbaine en développement regroupant des activités d'exploitation du charbon, de trafic maritime et d'extraction de minéraux. La Baie est menacée par la pollution de l'eau et de l'air, la dégradation environnementale et culturelle et un développement urbain inadapté. STATUT : Une étude de faisabilité sur les moyens d'aborder ces questions dans le cadre d'un développement de la baie est en train de se terminer. Quand elle sera finie, elle servira de base au développement de la Baie d'Along selon les principes du développement culturel communautaire et de l'interprétation muséologique. Les activités principales de ce projet comprennent : (1) La mise en place d'une équipe de projet constituée d'un personnel de jeunes vietnamiens du Département de gestion de la de la Baie d'Along, qui sera aidée par deux facilitateurs internationaux. (2) Une formation intensive et un transfert de savoir-faire en particulier dans les domaines de la planification, de la collecte de données et de la gestion intégrée de l'interprétation de la zone. (3) Une analyse complète des parties prenantes concernées pour développer un partenariat stratégique entre elles et l'écomusée. Par exemple, le thème des traditions de la pêche d'Along fait participer directement les villages flottants de pêcheurs, les communes de pêcheurs sur le continent, les constructeurs de bateaux de pêche ainsi que les principales institutions telles que l'Institut océanographique du Vietnam, l'Institut des produits de la mer et les agences des autorités locales telles que le Département provincial des pêcheries. (4) La mise au point, par le Département, d'une ébauche de plan de gestion pour l'interprétation, comprenant un certain nombre de thèmes interprétatifs, dont deux ont un lien direct avec l'industrie de la pêche. Le plan comprend la création d'un centre d'interprétation flottant qui traitera de questions telles que la conservation des écosystèmes fragiles et uniques de la Baie. Le plan apportera une source alternative de revenu pour les familles de pêcheurs par le tourisme et les encouragera à retourner à leur savoir et pratiques traditionnels tout en améliorant leur niveau de vie. Parmi ce qui a été réalisé jusqu'à présent, voici les éléments les plus significatifs : (1) Une pré-étude pour un Système d'information géographique (SIG) comme outil puissant de gestion mis à disposition des gestionnaires de la Baie. (2) Le renforcement de la capacité du Département de gestion afin qu'il continue à développer des thèmes d'interprétation et qu'il s'en serve pour aborder les questions environnementales et culturelles locales. (3) L'établissement de liens forts avec les institutions nationales afin de créer un réseau d'expertise et de soutien pour la préservation des activités dans la baie. (4) L'engagement de la communauté de pêcheurs de la baie à travailler avec l'écomusée pour conserver les stocks de poissons, éliminer les pratiques illégales et contrôler la pollution à l'aide de réels moyens d'élimination des déchets. BENEFICE A LONG TERME : au cours de la présente décennie, la mise en place de l'écomusée créera des emplois, particulièrement dans les services, augmentera la sensibilisation à l'importance économique de la conservation et du développement durable des ressources environnementales et culturelles et en étant en faveur des pauvres et des groupes défavorisés, contribuera à l'élimination de la pauvreté et renforcera la cohésion sociale. RENFORCEMENT DES CAPACITES ET DES INSITUTIONS : au Vietnam, les pratiques innovantes dans le domaine de la gestion durable de l'environnement n'en sont qu'à leur début. Cette initiative d'étude de faisabilité d'un écomusée en Baie d'Along est la première de ce type à utiliser l'approche interprétative pour renforcer globalement la capacité à la gestion environnementale et culturelle. En développant les capacités de gestion du Département de gestion de la Baie d'Along et en augmentant la participation des communautés et des autres acteurs dans les activités de conservation, la protection de l'environnement devient le souci de tout un chacun et non pas seulement celui des autorités et organisations concernées. PROCESSUS DE PARTICIPATION : Une des approches les plus innovantes en matière de développement des ressources culturelles, patrimoniales et environnementales dans la Baie d'Along repose sur l'application du concept de l'éco-muséologie. Les conservateurs en sont les locaux qui doivent tout d'abord se connaître eux-mêmes ainsi que leur environnement avant de pouvoir développer un tel écomusée. C'est une approche focalisée sur les gens. L'attention se porte sur la cartographie des ressources culturelles et environnementales et le développement de produits d'interprétation appropriés pour réanimer la région, promouvoir la conservation et améliorer la qualité de vie des gens. Les activités sont planifiées dans la Baie d'Along en négociant un ensemble de stratégies de partenariats entre les communautés, les entreprises et les agences officielles. Les activités issues du projet font parties de celles du Département de gestion de la Baie d'Along et du comité du peuple de Quang Ninh. RESPECTUEUX DE LA CULTURE : La cartographie des ressources culturelles et environnementales encourage la redécouverte des savoir, techniques et pratiques traditionnels. Leur régénération passe par le développement de produits touristiques choisis avec soins et qui contribuent à la valorisation de leurs propres traditions aux yeux de la communauté locale. DURABILITE : Ce projet s'intéresse surtout au transfert de savoir faire et considère l'adoption probable de cette approche comme un modèle de bonnes pratiques dans le domaine du développement du patrimoine. TRANSFERABILITE : Ce projet a pour objet le développement culturel par les communautés, c'est-à-dire faire avancer le projet à l'aide des ressources de la communauté locale. Le modèle peut être ainsi adapté dans des contextes très différents. C'est un processus, pas un contexte. DEVELOPPEMENT D'UN CONSENSUS: Ce projet s'appuie sur la création d'une base participative large et intégrant tous les acteurs. QUESTIONS DE SENSIBILITE HOMME/FEMME ET/OU AUTRES : Ayant comme but de contribuer au travail général de la Province, ce projet espère créer une nouvelle vision, perspective et style de vie qui correspondent aux valeurs du Patrimoine de la Baie d'Along. Les luttes et les réalisations de la Province de Quang Ninh ont toujours eu un profond impact sur les jeunes et les femmes de Quang Ninh. L'attention porte sur l'augmentation des opportunités d'emploi des femmes, des jeunes et des groupes socialement exclus, revalorisant ainsi leur statut social dans la communauté. Ce projet prend aussi en compte le fait que la Province de Quang Ninh a le taux de HIV/SIDA et de toxicomanie le plus élevé au Vietnam et les groupes socialement défavorisés sont les plus exposés. RENFORCEMENT DES IDENTITES LOCALES : Un principe fondamental du développement culturel communautaire et de ce projet repose sur la connaissance qu'on les gens d'eux-mêmes, de leur culture et de leurs traditions avant que tout développement efficace puisse avoir lieu. DOCUMENTATION : Pendant le développement de l'étude de faisabilité de la Baie d'Along, un certain nombre de documents ont été préparés. De plus, le projet visait à accroître la capacité au sein du Département de gestion à créer et gérer un centre de documentation où tous les documents liés à la gestion durable de la Baie d'Along sont gardés pour un usage futur. EVALUATION : Les plans de développement existants sont en cours de ré-évaluation et des ressources sont mises de côté pour mettre en œuvre les recommandations de l'étude de faisabilité. Mme Aprile Schwartz, Responsable de projet, UNESCO, Vietnam. *************************************************************************** TO RESPOND TO ABOVE MESSAGE OR TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST, PLEASE SEND YOUR TEXT OR REQUEST TO: Pour répondre à ce message ou être retiré de la liste, veuillez envoyer votre texte/demande à: Para responder a este mensaje o retirarse de la lista de difusión, sírvase enviar texto/pedido a: <mailto:moderator_at_csiwisepractices.org> *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 09:35:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21517 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21512 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26171 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7NGZLp19797 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:35:21 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13701 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05064 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.enter.net (mail2.enter.net [63.65.0.22]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18994 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m60P-3-84.enter.net (m60P-3-84.enter.net [207.18.9.48]) by mail2.enter.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7NE6hv19115 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200108231406.f7NE6hv19115_at_mail2.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> From: "skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> Organization: Enter.Net To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:01:13 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: [Paddlewise] Habits of Powerboaters X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I too have noticed on many occassions that powerboaters often feel compelled to pass in front of my kayak. In such cases, if they held their courses steady, they would pass behind me. They persist in this behavior even when, to pass in front of me, they must deviate into the path of power traffic coming from the opposite direction. I have no problem with sailboats. Being a sailor myself, I don't have much trouble anticipating their intentions. Their courses are not random, and their speeds are always moderate- unlike jetskis and jetboats. Have any of you encountered hovercraft? Chuck Sutherland ============================= At 11:02 PM 8/18/2001 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Here's the difference: I have many times been on a nominal "collision course" >with a pleasure boater, recognized that, and made the accepted large, obvious >course change to signal my intentions. And, to my intense frustration, about >30 % of the time, the pleasure boater corrects __into__ me!! So, I correct >again, and that usually makes a collision unlikely. Out on Lake Winnipeasaukee, my only time on that large, rocky, high-speed, heavily used lake, I had to turn away from the path of several high-speed boats. Sticking near shores in rocky coves gave some relief but at one point I had to cross a major passage, only a couple of hundred yards wide. No traffic was nearby so I scrambled across. When nearing the middle a large, fast boat made a turn and came my way. I paddled hard for the safety of a nearby rock and he added speed and corrected toward me. I turned and paddled harder and he turned to cut between me and my protective rock only 20 or 30 yards away. At this point I hoped the bozo would hit the rock! I thought for a moment I might tell the police patrol about this idiot, but as the big boat passed I could read lettering on his side "P-O-L-I-C-E". At least he didn't hit me. -jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 09:47:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24736 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24731 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03630 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7NGksp19822 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:46:54 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13726 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12554 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:08:08 -0700 (PDT) From: AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com (imo-r01.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.97]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06827 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.145.62401a (3999) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <145.62401a.28b68461_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:08:01 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] practice with that throw bag To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It can't be emphasized enough that practice is important! I was embarrassed and surprised to find that the one time I've needed my throw-bag, I was unable to get it to the person who needed it. Luckily she was able to self-rescue, but I sure felt impotent, not to mention scared. This may be obvious to others, but it wasn't to me: You can practice with the throw bag without having to restuff the rope every time, by throwing the whole bag. My paddling partener and I will play catch with it during rest breaks, and I've gotten much better with not that much practice. But be sure to sometimes practice it hanging on to the rope, as the bag does behave differently as the rope deploys. (Basic physics: it gets lighter and thus loses momentum as the rope plays out.) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 10:01:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28149 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28144 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11383 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7NGxrp19851 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:59:53 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13758 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27580 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: WWILDCHILD_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09367 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WWILDCHILD_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.106.48880fb (4568) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <106.48880fb.28b68f27_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:53:59 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Alaska Northwestern Lagoon Trip To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10527 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Below is a link to my photo album of my recent kayak trip to Northwestern Lagoon in Alsaka. My wife and I spent 5 days kayaking and camping in the fjord, durring which time we only saw 3 or 4 other kayaks that passed through one day. It was truly an incredible trip and if anyone needs information on that area, please feel free to ask. Before my trip I found virtually no information but I knew how remote is was (it takes a 60+ mile charter boat ride to the area to be dropped off from Seward) and I couldn't resist the challenge. By the way after some of the conversations regarding not storing things on the deck of a kayak due to safety a few months ago, please disregard the picture of our fully loaded kayak. :) Several months ago someone from this list helped me with a little background on Northwestern lagoon on the Kenai Penensula and I have since lost his name and email address. I greatly appreciated the help and our trip was incredible. http://www.pbase.com/wwildchild/ Roy =:-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 10:38:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10260 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10255 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys27.hou.wt.net (sys27.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.27]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08139 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (wt-d6-179.wt.net [208.211.141.179]) by sys27.hou.wt.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA82129; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B853E52.5CAE8847_at_ckpro.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:34:31 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Habits of Powerboaters References: <200108231406.f7NE6hv19115_at_mail2.enter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I got buzzed by a number of windsurfers last night. I admit it was pretty cool having them blast past me doing 20knots! They obviously knew what they we're doing, but I detected a bit of the jet skier (let's see how close we can get to this kayaker) mentality. I think if they wiped out, the boat would brake itself on the sail so I wasn't too concerned. As another paddlewiser stated, I have also been buzzed by the Coast Guard. They we're in an inflatable and the wake wasn't such an issue as was the way they we're coming up fast behind me. Must of been a slow day, they we're checking out my PFD. Chris Kuhlman Seabrook, TX Go the extra mile. It's never crowded. "skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net" wrote: > I too have noticed on many occassions that powerboaters often feel > compelled to pass in front of my kayak. In such cases, if they held > their courses steady, they would pass behind me. They persist in this > behavior even when, to pass in front of me, they must deviate into > the path of power traffic coming from the opposite direction. > > I have no problem with sailboats. Being a sailor myself, I don't have > much trouble anticipating their intentions. Their courses are not > random, and their speeds are always moderate- unlike jetskis and > jetboats. > > Have any of you encountered hovercraft? > > Chuck Sutherland > > ============================= > At 11:02 PM 8/18/2001 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > >Here's the difference: I have many times been on a nominal "collision course" > >with a pleasure boater, recognized that, and made the accepted large, obvious > >course change to signal my intentions. And, to my intense frustration, about > >30 % of the time, the pleasure boater corrects __into__ me!! So, I correct > >again, and that usually makes a collision unlikely. > > Out on Lake Winnipeasaukee, my only time on that large, rocky, high-speed, > heavily used lake, I had to turn away from the path of several high-speed > boats. Sticking near shores in rocky coves gave some relief but at one > point I had to cross a major passage, only a couple of hundred yards > wide. No traffic was nearby so I scrambled across. When nearing the > middle a large, fast boat made a turn and came my way. I paddled hard for > the safety of a nearby rock and he added speed and corrected toward me. I > turned and paddled harder and he turned to cut between me and my protective > rock only 20 or 30 yards away. At this point I hoped the bozo would hit > the rock! I thought for a moment I might tell the police patrol about this > idiot, but as the big boat passed I could read lettering on his side > "P-O-L-I-C-E". At least he didn't hit me. > > -jerry. > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 11:29:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25951 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25946 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12215 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-477.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.211.235]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26091 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:28:45 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <013401c12c01$cb795340$50d1150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Alaska Northwestern Lagoon Trip Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:30:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Looks like you had a great trip. Glad the weather treated you so well. Kenai Fjords is spectacular. I am sure you will come again Bob In Alaska -----Original Message----- From: WWILDCHILD_at_aol.com <WWILDCHILD_at_aol.com> To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:16 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Alaska Northwestern Lagoon Trip >Below is a link to my photo album of my recent kayak trip to Northwestern >Lagoon in Alsaka. My wife and I spent 5 days kayaking and camping in the >fjord, durring which time we only saw 3 or 4 other kayaks that passed through >one day. It was truly an incredible trip and if anyone needs information on >that area, please feel free to ask. Before my trip I found virtually no >information but I knew how remote is was (it takes a 60+ mile charter boat >ride to the area to be dropped off from Seward) and I couldn't resist the >challenge. By the way after some of the conversations regarding not storing >things on the deck of a kayak due to safety a few months ago, please >disregard the picture of our fully loaded kayak. :) > >Several months ago someone from this list helped me with a little background >on Northwestern lagoon on the Kenai Penensula and I have since lost his name >and email address. I greatly appreciated the help and our trip was >incredible. > >http://www.pbase.com/wwildchild/ > >Roy >=:-) > > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 12:57:44 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23391 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23340 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13027 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7NJvDp20117 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:57:13 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13955 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22798 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08583 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 572329BB4; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdk84355; Thu Aug 23 15:52:06 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082315504019428 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:50:40 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRQGN>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:50:44 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A846_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Paddlewise'" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Throw bag question Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:50:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Seems to be a lot of discussion about injurying a person who needs saving, by hitting them with the throw bag. Now, I'm just a simple red-neck Virginian, but...... if I'm drowning, the last thing I'm worried about is a cut on my face. I don't care if you break both my arms and both my legs.... JUST GET ME OUT OF THE DAMN WATER!!! The only exception to that is - Don't knock me unconscious so that I drown prematurely. Before anyone says it...yes...there are those that will sue you after you save them because you hurt them in the process. Many states have a "good samaritan" law which (in part) basically says that if you act on their behalf in an emergency they can't sue you. In some states, the law says that if you "don't" act, they can sue you. Bottom line for me is... Can I live with myself years later when my action or inaction are far in the past? Anyway, just a thought........ Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 14:15:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17783 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17777 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:15:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05828 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.62.1304bd23 (3968) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62.1304bd23.28b6cc5e_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:15:10 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-21 14:53:01 EDT, clk_at_ckpro.com writes: << I became a believer "Never Leave Home Without It". He has a two page comprehensive list for a pack style survival kit, >> Well, I guess it's time to re-post info about the survival kit-in-a-can I got at Sports Authority for about $8-9 (it's gone up to $10). It's made by the camping gear people Coghlan's. It is a sardine can with pull tab (the can can be used as an eating or drinking container...and about 38 other items that include fish hook, tea bag....I honestly can't remember them now, but you can see a close-up of the package at www.thesportsauthority.com type in: survival kit-in-a-can here's their description: "OUR PRICE:$ 9.99The Survival Kit-in-a-Can from Coghlan's is compact, lightweight and watertight. It contains 38 items which can provide warmth, shelter and energy in threatening conditions from the desert to the Arctic. " If you put the can in a ziplock it will protect it from the salt water and you'll have somewhere to put all the little goodies after you open the can. It fits fine in a mesh PFD pocket. They also have a larger, backpacking survival kit. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 14:19:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18200 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18193 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:19:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07373 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id w.32.19c85e8a (3968); Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <32.19c85e8a.28b6cd61_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:19:29 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: revkayak_at_mtaonline.net, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-21 17:15:07 EDT, revkayak_at_mtaonline.net writes: << Al this reminds me ..it is time to take out the garbage...now where did I put those garbage bags? >> and where do you get "brightly colored" bags? I have thin white ones or thicker black ones. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 16:13:00 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24740 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24735 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24483 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 78ba3 (pool-63.52.79.28.mhub.grid.net [63.52.79.28] (may be forged)) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA32539 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:12:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rob Cookson" <rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Boat and Acc for Sale Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:09:14 -0400 Message-ID: <NEBBJDHHLMNMLAPIFLDKKECBCDAA.rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Greetings Paddlewiser's, I have been absent from this list for some time. A major family medical crisis disrupted my paddling endeavors and necessitated a cross country move for me. As a result of this I need to sell some of my surplus gear. I have a boat located at Pacific Water Sports in Seattle WA that is for sale and can be shipped. The details are below. Pacific Water Sports Seal $1,795.00 (new would be around $2900.00) Kevlar Lay-up, Forest Green Deck, Skin Coat Hull Stern Bulkhead and hatch, no Bow Bulkhead, forward access port. Feathercraft Rudder The boat is in very good condition and has had no hard use. The boat did suffer some minor shipping damage to the stern (and maybe a spot on the deck, I can't remember) but was repaired at the factory. The seal is a very fun fast boat. You can find the specs here: http://www.pwskayaks.com/pwskayaks/seal.htm The specs recommend a paddler under 180#, In my eating donuts, sitting behind the computer days I was around 220# and the seal still performed well. This boat is NOT a good rough water playboat. It loves fast cruising and touring in conditions that are not extreme. The boat may be purchased directly through PWS and they can crate it and ship anywhere. Buyer to pay crating and shipping costs. New cost of this boat would be around $2900.00 Canoes: I have a Wenonah Advantage fiberglass located in Maine $450.00 I also have an Old Town Wood/Canvas 16' Otca located in Grand Junction, CO $1500.00 I can't arrange shipping for these boats but would be happy to sell them. The one in Maine can be seen anytime, the one in CO could be shown while I'm there in Sept. If you have any questions please feel free to email me. I also need to sell the following: Kokatat Tec-Tour Gore-Tex Jacket Size XL $200.00 (new price $327.00) This jacket is the state of the art touring anorak. The Jacket is used but in very good shape including the gaskets. You can get details on the Tec-Tour here: http://www.kokatat.com/ Lotus Rio-Pro rescue pfd size Lg. $75.00 (new $150.00) This vest has been used lightly for a couple of seasons but is in great shape and has lots of mileage left in it. Please contact me via email for the used gear. The Seal may be purchased directly through PWS by Calling 1-800-934-6216 or feel free to contact me. I hope all of you are having fun out on the water. If you can help any of my gear find a new home I would greatly appreciate it. Cheers, Rob Cookson *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 22:22:31 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21164 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21157 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18512 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.c4.198b592c (25511) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c4.198b592c.28b73e50_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:21:20 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/23/01 5:24:36 PM, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com writes: << and where do you get "brightly colored" bags? I have thin white ones or thicker black ones. >> You know those bright orange ones they use around Halloween and the red and green ones at Christmas? Think HOLIDAY colors. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 23 22:29:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21984 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21970 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22012 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7O5Tbp20581 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:29:37 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA14126 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08466 Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe59.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.194]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25958 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:42:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [194.236.31.66] From: "Warwick Carter" <wdctr_at_hotmail.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] On Power boats.... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:40:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <OE59I76rOJhKPc99ir3000034e4_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2001 04:42:40.0272 (UTC) FILETIME=[34CD2100:01C12C57] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I was drifting and fishing one night on a little esturine creek from my kayak. Anyway, along come a couple of blokes with a little outboard and mess up the peace and quiet. I heard one say to the other ' do you think it's deep enough' 'Yeah, sure, that bloke (me) is here' his mate replies. A few seconds later came the bang and crunch as the outboard chewed into the gravel bar that I'd just drifted over, closely followed by cursing. It gave me a perverse feeling of satisfaction. Warwick Carter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 06:23:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA26002 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25996 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14821 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jbartos (user-33qs1nm.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.6.246]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20766 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601c12c9f$f54a6440$f606aec7_at_jbartos> From: "John R. Bartos" <jbartos_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rendezvous 2001 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:23:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net The web pages loaded with info on Rendezvous 2001 are now online at www.houstoncanoeclub.org. Kayak instructors this year include Ken Fink, Wayne Horodivich, Karen Knight, Gordon Black, Ben Kvanli, Mark Molina, Harvey Golden, Dunbar Hardy and Natalie Wiest. Hope to see you there. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 08:15:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00041 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00036 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:14:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25313 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.39.1992c6c8 (3965); Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39.1992c6c8.28b7c966_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:14:46 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: JSpinner_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-24 01:23:21 EDT, JSpinner_at_aol.com writes: << You know those bright orange ones they use around Halloween and the red and green ones at Christmas? >> OK, so maybe I can remember seeing orange ones (the best ones for survival purposes, I imagine), but I have never seen red and green ones! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 08:17:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00283 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00277 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com (imo-r07.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25807 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.e3.19a7a14d (3965); Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e3.19a7a14d.28b7ca08_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:17:28 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-24 08:48:00 EDT, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: << The bag ..... is flourescent green with the city logo printed on it.... The area Disabled Vets organization brings us big ugly bright pink bags to fill with old cloths and stuff, for them to pick up later.....at halloween time, stores sell those big orange bags that you fill with leaves and they look like giant pumpkins. >> know where I can find one with a decoy logo on it? :) :) :) sandy *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 08:34:17 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06087 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06081 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imap.intac.net (imap.intac.net [199.173.27.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08309 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust41.tnt2.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.21.169.41]) by imap.intac.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7OFVuI05821 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:31:56 -0400 Message-ID: <00ae01c12cb1$baf77e60$29a9153f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <e3.19a7a14d.28b7ca08_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:30:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > << The bag ..... is flourescent green with the city logo printed on it.... > The area Disabled Vets organization brings us big ugly bright pink bags to > fill with old cloths and stuff, for them to pick up later.....at halloween > time, stores sell those big orange bags that you fill with leaves and they > look like giant pumpkins. >> > > know where I can find one with a decoy logo on it? :) :) :) Have any of those Dollar Stores anywhere nearby? They often have these things in stock all year long. Up here in NJ some of the farmers markets also have little stores with these things. Often, they are fairly thin bags. The Halloween ones are meant to be filled with leaves so they're a little stronger. FWIW I will use trash compactor bags for gear because they're really strong. Downside is that they're a little harder to seal against water... Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 08:47:15 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09582 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09577 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.88]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15361 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from meatball ([24.112.191.196]) by femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010824154656.CUFX10796.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_meatball> for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:46:56 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01c12cb4$b2037130$c4bf7018_at_meatball> From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <39.1992c6c8.28b7c966_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:51:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com> > OK, so maybe I can remember seeing orange ones (the best ones for survival > purposes, I imagine), but I have never seen red and green ones! If you can find one, Coghlan sells an orange body bag. It's a heavy plastic bag, similar to a garbage bag, long enough to get inside of. The intended use is an emergency shelter, sort of like the aluminized mylar bags. A paddling friend of mine swears by them. Inflated (hold it open in the wind), it makes a huge float if your in the water and is also very visible. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 09:22:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21787 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21782 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10626 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mayfly.cornell.edu (mayfly.mannlib.cornell.edu [128.253.87.13]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02622; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.0.1.4.2.20010824121418.02ad64a0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell. edu> X-Sender: jaf30_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.1 Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:21:43 -0400 To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com>, "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear In-Reply-To: <004e01c12cb4$b2037130$c4bf7018_at_meatball> References: <39.1992c6c8.28b7c966_at_aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 11:51 AM 8/24/01 -0400, Michael Daly wrote: >From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com> > > > > OK, so maybe I can remember seeing orange ones (the best ones for survival > > purposes, I imagine), but I have never seen red and green ones! > > >If you can find one, Coghlan sells an orange body bag. It's a heavy >plastic bag, similar >to a garbage bag, long enough to get inside of. The intended use is an >emergency >shelter, sort of like the aluminized mylar bags. A paddling friend of >mine swears >by them. Inflated (hold it open in the wind), it makes a huge float if >your in the >water and is also very visible. I attended a "signaling" session at the AKT symposium last year and the presenter brought out one of those orange survival bivvy bags. There are several survival bags available but the advantage of one in "international orange" is that it can be used as a signaling device. Those halloween pumpkin bags are cute but they're too short to climb into. I've been trying to find one on the web without much success so far. A friend of mine is using my garage to refinish her wood boat and was emptying her hatches a couple of days ago and pulled one of these bivvy bags. You've gotta like a piece of survival equipment that has instructions printed in large black letters on it. As the presenter of the seminar said, "it provide reading material while you're waiting to be rescued". *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 09:25:22 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22017 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22012 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12020 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7OGPFp21653 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:25:15 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14353 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13512 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA20642 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 05:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 799919B31; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpde98046; Fri Aug 24 08:46:58 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082408453107101 ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:45:31 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRSML>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:45:34 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A849_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Gypsykayak_at_aol.com'" <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, "'revkayak_at_mtaonline.net'" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:45:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > and where do you get "brightly colored" bags? I have thin > white ones or > thicker black ones. Few thoughts on where to get them.... In my home town of Poquoson, our refuse disposal is based on a "pay for play" philosophy. The, ahem, "sanitary engineers" (what's so sanitary about garbage, and if they have engineering degrees, why are they collecting my trash?) won't pick up the trash unless it's in a special bag. The bag (bought at about a buck a piece) is flourescent green with the city logo printed on it. You buy them at city hall, or at one of the two grocers in town. The area Disabled Vets organization brings us big ugly bright pink bags to fill with old cloths and stuff, for them to pick up later. Oh, at halloween time, stores sell those big orange bags that you fill with leaves and they look like giant pumpkins. Rick - Poquoson, Va *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 09:27:14 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22204 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22197 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12378 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7OGR9p21665 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:27:09 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14365 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18664 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.181]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04881 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from w98sysrec (i48-03-41.pdx.du.teleport.com [216.26.2.169]) by epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21345; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002f01c12cb8$519af940$a9021ad8_at_w98sysrec> From: "Steve Scherrer" <Flatpick_at_teleport.com> To: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_home.com>, "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <39.1992c6c8.28b7c966_at_aol.com> <004e01c12cb4$b2037130$c4bf7018_at_meatball> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:17:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net We sell an Bright Orange exposure bag, imported from England by Great River Outfitters, that works well. Less than $10. I think any GRO dealer would have 'em. BCU 5 star training might include a wet exit, teather yourself to your boat, and climb into the bag _at_ sea. As if your self rescue fails!! It's kinda fun! =:-o) Steve aldercreek.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 09:39:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25509 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25504 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from howler.tri.sbc.com (howler.tri.sbc.com [205.173.58.4]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19151 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sbctri.tri.sbc.com (sbctri [144.60.1.10]) by howler.tri.sbc.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7OGdgj15524 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:39:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jedi.tri.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sbctri.tri.sbc.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f7OGcg605564 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:38:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jjoy_at_localhost) by jedi.tri.sbc.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id f7OGcol03811 for PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:38:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200108241638.f7OGcol03811_at_jedi.tri.sbc.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:38:50 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010824121418.02ad64a0_at_postoffice1.mail.cornell . from "John Fereira" at Aug 24, 2001 12:21:43 PM From: Jennifer Joy <jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net John Fereira said: > > I attended a "signaling" session at the AKT symposium last year and the > presenter brought out one of those orange survival bivvy bags. There are > several survival bags available but the advantage of one in "international > orange" is that it can be used as a signaling device. Those halloween > pumpkin bags are cute but they're too short to climb into. I've been > trying to find one on the web without much success so far. A friend of > mine is using my garage to refinish her wood boat and was emptying her > hatches a couple of days ago and pulled one of these bivvy bags. You've > gotta like a piece of survival equipment that has instructions printed in > large black letters on it. As the presenter of the seminar said, "it > provide reading material while you're waiting to be rescued". Sweetwater kayaks sells many BCU-recommended items (go down to the bottom of the page for the big orange bag): http://www.watertribe.com/Sweetwater/Essentials/Essentials.htm They also have assorted safety kits: http://www.watertribe.com/Sweetwater/Essentials/SafetyKits.htm No affiliation, other than I'd like to take a class there sometime. :) Jennifer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 11:24:19 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29031 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29026 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00219 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7OIMYp21774 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:22:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14438 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13678 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28725 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id EEB279BA1; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdk45021; Fri Aug 24 13:35:23 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.6) with SMTP id M2001082413335613845 ; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:33:56 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRSZV>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:34:00 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A84E_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "'Gypsykayak_at_aol.com'" <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:33:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > know where I can find one with a decoy logo on it? :) :) :) > > sandy LOL..... Ah-huh, okay. I see how you're going to be! Here I sat, enjoying a perfectly good deep blue, screw the world, funk, when you have to go and say something to make me smile again. Do you have any idea how many "the sky is falling" problems I had to resolve and in how precious little time I had to do it, just to get into that funk???? And then you go and ruin it with one simple comment! Isn't that just like a Paddlewiser to go and rescue someone from drowning (gotta work it into the Paddling theme!) in their "woe is me" pitty party. Sandy, I owe you a beverage of your choice. :-) For those who may be following my pittiful Duck saga, there are no new developments. Never did find out who the spy on P'Wise is. There were a few occurances of Duck related comments and so forth that I think (but you can never be too sure) were coincidental, but are keeping me on my toes. All in all, I'm not sure it's safe to go back into the marshes, but I'll certainly keep you posted if anything new develops! Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 11:26:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29433 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29427 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03617 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7OIQkp21787 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:46 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14450 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26353 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com (imo-r05.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26417 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.30.19bed3cc (25307); Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30.19bed3cc.28b7f3e3_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:16:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Beverages (was Survival Gear) To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-24 13:35:47 EDT, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: << Sandy, I owe you a beverage of your choice. :-) >> You'd better watch it, Rick. That's what happened with Peter Osman...after I suggested the Who's Who and to put the personal info in them he said, he owed me a beer. He came all the way from Australia to deliver the Foster beer (BTW, have you "guys" seen the Foster commercials where the "sheila" (I'm about to be flamed by the Ozzies.:) crunches an empty can on her forehead --- ouch!). Peter did 'fess up, though. He bought the beer in Florida. Still it was chilled and delicious after the beach clean-up with Paradise Paddlers. Actually, I'm very partial to champagne...fortunately Andre's $4.99 a pop will do fine. Don't know about other places, but lots (most? all?) public campgrounds, canoe runs...say "no alcoholic beverages." I've heard that they even open up coolers on Wekiva's Rock Springs Run (Florida) - not THAT is really nasty. I just bought a couple of one-liter bottles (from Publix) that have a black label (can't remember the brand off-hand) that says Sparkling Lemonade. Well, the color of that sparkling lemonade looks just like a margarita made with Jose Cuervo mix.....<<<grin>>> sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 14:51:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04604 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04573 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19537 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7OLovp22127 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:50:57 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA14535 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00342 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Gproaction_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com (imo-m10.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.165]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08024 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:03:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gproaction_at_aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.c8.19b093a1 (3734) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c8.19b093a1.28b80d14_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:03:32 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Thanks, Jennifer: I called Sweetwater at 727-906-0708 and ordered one of their Bivey Bags for express shipment, today. Regards, George Miller ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In a message dated 8/24/2001 9:52:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com writes: << Subj: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: 8/24/2001 9:52:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: jjoy_at_tri.sbc.com (Jennifer Joy) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net John Fereira said: > > I attended a "signaling" session at the AKT symposium last year and the > presenter brought out one of those orange survival bivvy bags. There are > several survival bags available but the advantage of one in "international > orange" is that it can be used as a signaling device. Those halloween > pumpkin bags are cute but they're too short to climb into. I've been > trying to find one on the web without much success so far. A friend of > mine is using my garage to refinish her wood boat and was emptying her > hatches a couple of days ago and pulled one of these bivvy bags. You've > gotta like a piece of survival equipment that has instructions printed in > large black letters on it. As the presenter of the seminar said, "it > provide reading material while you're waiting to be rescued". Sweetwater kayaks sells many BCU-recommended items (go down to the bottom of the page for the big orange bag): http://www.watertribe.com/Sweetwater/Essentials/Essentials.htm They also have assorted safety kits: http://www.watertribe.com/Sweetwater/Essentials/SafetyKits.htm No affiliation, other than I'd like to take a class there sometime. :) Jennifer George MIller PROACTION Management Consultants (001) 818-706-2200 http://www.proaction.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 24 18:33:10 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11942 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11937 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15947 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7P1Wdp22328 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:32:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14663 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08455 Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wellington.cnchost.com (wellington.concentric.net [207.155.252.14]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03281 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by wellington.cnchost.com id TAA10004; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:41:22 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <028f01c12cf6$461f06e0$6501a8c0_at_sah350> From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: "George Miller" <gproaction_at_aol.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:41:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net George Miller wrote: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:03:32 EDT From: Gproaction_at_aol.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Thanks, Jennifer: I called Sweetwater at 727-906-0708 and ordered one of their Bivey Bags for express shipment, today. Regards, George Miller George, I sure hope you don't need to use it. That's an ambitious trip that you are planning next month. For those who don't know George, he is planning on leading a group of paddlers from Gaviotta, CA to the outer Channel Islands, San Miguel and Santa Rosa. Their first day is a 27 mile open ocean crossing. Although Sep - Nov are the best time of year weatherwise to make this crossing, it is still an extremely difficult one. The Santa Barbara Channel has some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world. Good luck George and those going with you. Just remember, I want to see that survival bag still in its original packing when you return. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 25 10:57:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20082 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20077 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11039 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7PHtup24024 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:55:56 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15048 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05006 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 05:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22828 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 05:24:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.2f.19d38a9b (3868) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f.19d38a9b.28b8f295_at_aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:22:45 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/22/2001 4:03:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, clk_at_ckpro.com writes: > By request and with permission to reproduce, here is a very complete list of > All I need is my Rambo survival knife :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sat Aug 25 15:42:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21467 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21462 Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com (imail_at_femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.18]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03270 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Default ([24.6.217.67]) by femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010825224218.GKCT11524.femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_Default> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:42:18 -0700 Message-ID: <001701c12db7$09689b00$43d90618_at_vncvr1.wa.home.com> From: "Michael Orchard" <mspadorchard_at_home.com> To: "PaddleWise_at_paddlewise. Net" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:41:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I am already a fairly skilled paddle, and paddle a Pygmy Coho...which I like a lot. I am interested in also doing some kayak fishing...for salmon and steelhead mainly in the pacific northwest, and or some ocean fishing...and would like opinions for a very good fishing kayak. In my experience a decked kayak is somewhat cumbersome for fishing in termes of handling and storing gear, etc...and would like to get another boat primarily for fishing...and also to paddle with my boys...I can hook a tow rope when we are paddling together so the difference in performance won't be a big issue. Any suggestions and experiences of others on this concept is appreciated... thanks, Michael Orchard *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 07:14:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA08409 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08404 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04018 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id t.136.a74a85 (17233); Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <136.a74a85.28ba5d9d_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:11:41 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] To: mspadorchard_at_home.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/25/2001 3:43:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mspadorchard_at_home.com writes: > I am already a fairly skilled paddle, and paddle a Pygmy Coho...which I like > a lot. > I am interested in also doing some kayak fishing...for salmon and steelhead > mainly in the pacific northwest, and or some ocean fishing...and would like > opinions for a very good fishing kayak. In my experience a decked kayak is > somewhat cumbersome for fishing in termes of handling and storing gear, > etc...and would like to get another boat primarily for fishing...and also to > paddle with my boys...I can hook a tow rope when we are paddling together so > the difference in performance won't be a big issue. > Sit-on-tops are very popular as fishing platforms here in sunny Southern California. I don't know just how comfortable you would be on one in the pacific northwest. On a SOT you are going to get wet. An enclosed boat would be drier and warmer. As far as being cumbersome for fishing, I think pretty much any type of paddle craft will feel somewhat cramped. Let's face it, a kayak is not the most comfortable choice in a fishing boat. But I think it is this very challenge that makes it so appealing. I have heard a number of people state that a good stable kayak is your best bet for fishing from. I have fished for the last fifteen years from a boat with a narrow 22.5" beam which is considered to be fairly tippy. It has never given me any problem. I am currently working on a boat with a 20" beam which I intend to fish from when it's finished. I think any boat which you are comfortable in will be a good choice to fish from. So what's wrong with your Pygmy Coho? It would seem that what you are really looking for is a second kayak which you can take the kids out in. I can't even begin to help you there without more information. What you need to do is figure out just exactly what it is you want to do with the new boat, and then look around to see what's available to fill that bill. Understand, however, that whatever you find in a kayak will undoubtedly be somewhat of a compromise. Good luck, Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 08:00:09 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21155 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21150 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29334 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7QExsp25792 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:59:54 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15553 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21536 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe48.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.20]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28656 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:23:53 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [194.236.31.66] From: "Warwick Carter" <wdctr_at_hotmail.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Fishing from a Kayak Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:21:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <OE48fpGtS79AX7Ur5qW000042f2_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2001 08:23:53.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[7138D2D0:01C12E08] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I used to fish from a old fiberglass river/ww Kayak with a cut down foam box for gear and a cutting board bungeed to the deck. This is not reccomended! Dropping a thrashing fish betwen your legs can lead to serious problems! Go for something with an open cockpit if the water conditions allow it. Some people in even go for sit on tops. Warwick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 08:40:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03507 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03413 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Niilus_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23645 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Niilus_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id i.dd.199991ab (4050); Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <dd.199991ab.28ba7242_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:39:46 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fishing from a Kayak To: wdctr_at_hotmail.com CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net There was a discussion on the Folbot Forum over a year ago (May 2000) on kayak fishing. Someone said that he an a friend travel throughout Central America with their Kayaks, mostly for fishing. He said that the Folbot Aluet is the ultimate fishing machine. The larger cockpit allowes easy access to equipment (ex: bait bucket, gaff, lure box, ect..) and she is much more stable when tackling larger fish. The Folbot Kodiac however, with her longer waterline, is more suited for trolling (she is faster) and tracks better than any hardshell I've used. My friend will easily tire while Tarpon fishing with me in the Estuaries of Panama trolling deep-divers which reduce speed as much as up to a knot. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 08:42:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05889 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05884 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27858 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7QFgIp25840 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:42:18 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15578 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29942 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT) From: AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17063 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.47.ff6f6a4 (4427) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <47.ff6f6a4.28ba6ec5_at_aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:24:53 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fishing from a Kayak To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ocean Kayak makes a boat called the ambush that is specifically made for fishing and hunting. It also looks like a fun boat for kids. They are on the web; I forget the address but maybe just oceankayak.com. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 15:56:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15665 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15654 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21597 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7QMt6p26499 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:55:06 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15711 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12786 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15624 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uspppgavncats (vna-va18-17.ix.netcom.com [207.223.180.81]) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26858 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801c12e82$26966060$e9b3dfcf_at_uspppgavncats> From: "Gavin G. Shire" <gavncats_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] folbot question Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:55:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, I have enjoyed reading past thread on Paddlewise and thought some one out there might be able to help me. My wife and I are thinking of buying kayaks for use on inlets and rivers around Washington D.C. and the Delaware Bay (probably not on the ocean itself). I have become intrigued by the idea of a folding kayak because of their ease of loading into the back of a car, longer lifespan and stability/trackability. I have not heard much talk on Paddlewise on the Folbot Kodiak, perhaps because it is so new. Has anyone out there used one yet? It is an attractive price and seems an ideal size for both of us - I am 5' 9" - 160lbs; my wife is 5'8", 130lbs. Thanks in advance. Gavin Shire *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 16:13:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21553 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21548 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03439 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7QNCep26527 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:12:40 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15731 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19040 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28236 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p120.home (A010-0672.TULS.splitrock.net [63.252.227.164]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7QN8Tx182970 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:08:30 -0400 Received: from mike by p120.home with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15b8SG-0004iC-00 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:32:32 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:32:32 -0500 From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Message-ID: <20010826173232.A9885_at_p120.home> Mail-Followup-To: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net>, "'paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net'" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD607FA1B_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B8438F6.7AD4B74F_at_ckpro.com>; from clk_at_ckpro.com on Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 05:58:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Was that seals or squeals? That bag has way to much weight and not enough functionality. If you're taking an axe don't forget the dutch oven. And what's with the seperate listing of fishing line and dental floss? Is that so that the squeals homecoming photo will be all white teeth and smiles? I don't get it. Light line for fishing. Yep, in areas with high fishing pressure you need light line and if the squeals are moroned upstream of a highly fished area they will need 8x tippet to catch anything trophy worthy... for morons that is, but if we're still talking survival bag, wind some 30-50# nylon braid around an hourglass shaped light plastic spice bottle with 6ft of 14# on the end tied to 4ft of 12# tied to 2ft of 10# tied to 18in of 8# and that's as light as you need for areas where survival is in question and when it breaks you have the heavy line left. Anyone advising light line in a survival bag is a moron, period. And what's a transponder? Now days we should carry a vhf and an epirb (if you can afford it). And what's with having only 4 cutting tools? What if I have to trim my nose hairs? If I'm going to be flossing my teeth I expect to be able to trim my nose hairs. We're in the squeals now right? Give me a break navy squeals. Throw away the floss and add to the heavy fishing line. Carry one cutting tool and small sharpening stone. Use your tent fly in the survival bag as your shelter at zero extra wt cost. Save the sewing needles and safety pins for home-econ. Add some fleece. Lighten the medkit to peroxide, bugjuice and iodine tabs. This isn't the girl scouts, it's a survival kit. In that spice btl fishing kit put 3ea of the best damn flies on earth: adams, elk hair caddis, parachute adams, humpy, blue wing olive, cahill cadiss?. Plus med (not sm) hooks for hooking a shrimp, worm, bug, frog, etc.. Split shot will surfice for wt, certainly no sinkers are required in a survival fishing container. Then fill up the rest of the bottle with tea bags and boullion cubes. Really I don't want to denegrate those who would give there life for there country, but to to be this far off base for a survival bagk ...that could cause unnecessary death. Imagine that, the military causing unnecessary death. What's this world coming to? On Wed 22 Aug 2001, Chris L. Kuhlman wrote: > By request and with permission to reproduce, here is a very complete list of > survival gear compliments of Steve Sellers from Outdoor Education and Training. > This gear goes into a dry bag in the day hatch of my Azul-Sultan. As I > mentioned in a previous post, I carry in a pocket of my PFD, a 4"X5" vacuum > sealed bag with the following items: 3-skyblazer flares, bivy sack, reflective > signaling mirror, pencil flashlight, Gerber Strike Force (magnesium bar) for > lighting fires, and a small 1"X2" bag containing cotton ball soaked in > vaseline. These cotton balls will light in wet condition and help start a fire > for signaling, keeping warm or cooking. I also carry a Gerber River Shorty > knife on my PFD. The weight of all of this is negligible and does not interfere > with paddling, rolling... > > Chris Kuhlman > > > Cutting Tools > o Quality Name Brand 2/3 blade pocket knife > o Hunting knife > o Small axe > o Multi Tool > > Fire Starter > o Metal match > o Magnesium bar > o Waterproof matches > o Candle > > Shelter > o Tarp > o Poncho > o Nylon rope > o Space blanket > > First Aid Kit > o Personal Medicines > o Bandaging > o Tape > o Soap > o Moleskin > o Water purification > o Tweezers > o Sunscreen > o Pain medicine > o Insect repellent > o Antibacterial > > Signaling > o Mirror > o Whistle > o Flare kit > o Transponder > > Water container > o Freezer bags > o Survival kit container > > Fishing kit > o Small hooks > o Light line > o Sinkers > > Misc. Items > o Dental floss > o Safety pins > o Sewing needles > o Small compass > o Jerky/hard candy > o Large trash bags > o Toilet paper > o Small flashlight > o Emergency phone numbers > o Coins > > Always let someone know where you are going and when you intend to return! > Check the weather report for your route and destination! > -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 22:06:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11201 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11196 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07549 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7R55cp26855 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:05:39 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15834 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25132 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10676 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p120.home (A010-0672.TULS.splitrock.net [63.252.227.164]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7QNRm3249178 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:27:48 -0400 Received: from mike by p120.home with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15b8kw-0004kA-00 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:51:50 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:51:50 -0500 From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Message-ID: <20010826175150.B9885_at_p120.home> Mail-Followup-To: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net>, paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821054746.02b83df8_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010821054746.02b83df8_at_pop3.norton.antivirus>; from davchris_at_skypoint.com on Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 05:49:10AM -0500 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net On Tue 21 Aug 2001, David Christianson wrote: > It has been many years now but I don't think that military pilots carry all > survival gear on them. It's been just a couple yrs since I went to a siminar by a military coast guard officer that flies rescues off miami to help downed pilots and he reccomended all pilots flying over water to carry the survival gear in a vest they wear saying, "If you aren't wearing it, you won't have it after the crash." I think the same applies to kayaking in storm conditions. After a wet exit the boat will be gone, maybe forever. Anyway according to S Fl uscg rescue experts you must carry all rescue gear on your person if you are flying over water. -- Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Sun Aug 26 23:32:45 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09202 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09197 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00231 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7R6WOp26950 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:32:24 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15878 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25634 Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web13107.mail.yahoo.com (web13107.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.152]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03776 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010827055040.92429.qmail_at_web13107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.193.10.10] by web13107.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:50:40 PDT Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Scot Hume <scot_hume_at_yahoo.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Drytop pant combos To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, I have been following your digest for a while and find a lot of the information very informative. I use a drytop with a hydrofuzz farmer john + thermal layers under it for ww paddling here in Colorado. I'm heading out to the Seattle/Portland area to do a little seakayaking with a friend in a few weeks. Even in the spring, most of our rivers are small enough that a cold swim isn't too big of a deal. However, seakayaking immersion can be much longer. So I may be in the market for bottoms to go with my top. Is a wetsuite bottom enough protection for most of the paddling in the area, or are dry pants necessary? I am curious what combinations folks have found work well with their drytops? Do I have to go to a full bib or will lower cut pants do the job when combined with the drytop? Thanks for your input. Scot *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 08:05:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20462 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20457 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:03:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09101 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7RF3fp28441 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:03:41 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16101 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07696 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout3-int.prodigy.net (pimout3-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.102]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18549 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-5.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.5]) by pimout3-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7RBDXq155234 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:13:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3B8A2B58.9241E175_at_prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 06:13:28 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Long trip eating up rower's supplies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-row27.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 08:45:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02940 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02931 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f89.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.89]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06147 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:45:03 -0700 Received: from 56.0.160.18 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:45:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [56.0.160.18] From: "Michael Vandamm" <mvandamm_at_hotmail.com> To: Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Cc: skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net Subject: [Paddlewise] Powerboats Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:45:03 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F89paoG1VRIjn04x29x000138b9_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Aug 2001 15:45:03.0071 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C983EF0:01C12F0F] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Chuck Sutherland asked: "Have any of you encountered hovercraft?" Alas, yes. A vendor of small hovercraft ( seating capacities: 4-6) regularly conducts demos with 2 of those "vessels" on weekends at Sandy Point State Park, on the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland. The hovercraft are extremely noisy (several times louder than any PWC --all "crew" wear hearing protection), and their propulsion fans create hurricane-velocity winds which throw rooster tails of sand. At Sandy Point they are generally operated with scant regard for other small craft, and pedestrians on the beach. While not spectacularly fast over the water (maybe 20 knots max.), they can change heading very rapidly, skidding sideways in a wide arc before taking up a new course. You don't want to be in front of them, you don't want to be behind them, and you don't want to be beside them. But at least you can hear them coming. Mike VandammMaryland, USA"If my paragraph breaks have disappeared again, blame the software." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 09:14:35 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12328 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12321 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imap.intac.net (imap.intac.net [199.173.27.34]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25713 for <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from newmicronpc (1Cust97.tnt3.princeton.nj.da.uu.net [63.39.102.97]) by imap.intac.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f7RGBiv22412; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:11:45 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c12f12$e470d080$6166273f_at_com> From: "Joe Pylka" <pylka_at_castle.net> To: <Paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> References: <F89paoG1VRIjn04x29x000138b9_at_hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Powerboats Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:11:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > Chuck Sutherland asked: "Have any of you encountered hovercraft?" There is at least one used for rescue purposes on the Delaware River in the New Hope area. (They also had an airboat but that sank....). Noisy, perhaps, but an effective vehicle for some types of water. --But the one I remember most was a few years ago on the Esopus, a whitewater river in the Catskills. We heard this tremendous noise and down a rapid came this hovercraft. Brand new. And the couple who were its owners were novices at running one, so this behemoth was wallowing left and right all over the place. Never did run across a boater, but that was sheer luck. They smiled and waved, then continued downstream. A short while later, back upstream scattering boaters every which way. As another poster said, you don't want to be in front of, behind, or ahead of one of these things. Later, on the shuttle back, we had the pleasure of observing the two getting a ticket from a sheriff's deputy. They bought this thing for themselves but since he was a member of a local rescue squad elsewhere in the state he felt it was justifiable to use it anywhere 'for practice'. Since then I've never seen another on that river; or any kind of powerboat for that matter..... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 09:46:05 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21851 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21846 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Niilus_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16342 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Niilus_at_aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id u.18.11657262 (4236); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18.11657262.28bbd32b_at_aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:45:31 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] folbot question To: gavncats_at_ix.netcom.com CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10531 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/26/2001 3:57:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gavncats_at_ix.netcom.com writes: > I have enjoyed reading past thread on Paddlewise and thought some one out > there might be able to help me. My wife and I are thinking of buying kayaks > for use on inlets and rivers around Washington D.C. and the Delaware Bay > (probably not on the ocean itself). I have become intrigued by the idea of a > folding kayak because of their ease of loading into the back of a car, > longer > lifespan and stability/trackability. I have not heard much talk on > Paddlewise > on the Folbot Kodiak, perhaps because it is so new. Has anyone out there > used > one yet? It is an attractive price and seems an ideal size for both of us - > I > am 5' 9" - 160lbs; my wife is 5'8", 130lbs. Thanks in advance. > There is a review of the Folbot Kodiak in the December 2000 issue of Sea Kayaker, you could order the back issue or a copy of the article from them at (206)789-9536. You could also address your question to the Folbot users forum which has a Kodiak discussion section [http://www.folbot.com/] and to Bagboater_at_yahoogroups.com. Bagboater discusses all of the folding kayaks. I have no personal experience with the Kodiak, I own a couple of Feathercraft (K1 and K-Light) and a Folbot Aleut. The Kodiak is longer, narrower, heavier, faster and takes only a bit longer to assemble than the smaller Aleut. At neary 200 pounds I am a bit heavy for the Aleut, I slow the boat down, the Kodiak would suit my weight better. If you are looking for a folding kayak for paddling only you might look at Feathercraft, I have heard a lot of good things about the new Feathercraft Kahuna. If you want a very versatile folding kayak, easily rigged for upwind sailing with either Folbot or Batwing rigs, and a large open cockpit for easy access equipment for birdwatching, photography, fishing, and a cooler of favorite beverages, then the Folbot Kodiak would be good. I bought the slower Aleut because it's lighter and may well be the fastest folder to assemble. Tony Niilus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 12:15:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08894 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08889 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26856 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7RJCvp28701 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:12:57 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16188 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04486 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtaonline.net (yukon.mtaonline.net [12.6.42.1]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14276 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter (dialups-58.palmer.mtaonline.net [12.21.208.58]) by mtaonline.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07911 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:27:52 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <000401c12f1d$f736b800$3ad0150c_at_carter> From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:30:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Having been in a survival situation (hiking not kayaking) and having taught wilderness survival, the main piece of equipment that seperates the living and the dead is your attitude. There are many stories of people surviving terrible situations with no gear at all where others have perished with all the survival gear they could carry. ("well dressed corpses", in search and rescue lingo) Survival is about will and resourcefulness not equipment. As the hitchhikers guide to the galaxies says "DON'T PANIC" Bob -----Original Message----- From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_PRODIGY.NET> To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear >On Tue 21 Aug 2001, David Christianson wrote: > >> It has been many years now but I don't think that military pilots carry all >> survival gear on them. > >It's been just a couple yrs since I went to a siminar by a military >coast guard officer that flies rescues off miami to help downed pilots >and he reccomended all pilots flying over water to carry the survival >gear in a vest they wear saying, "If you aren't wearing it, you won't >have it after the crash." I think the same applies to kayaking in >storm conditions. After a wet exit the boat will be gone, maybe >forever. Anyway according to S Fl uscg rescue experts you must >carry all rescue gear on your person if you are flying over water. > >-- > >Mike McNally mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 16:57:29 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06686 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06678 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05718 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip114.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.114]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7RNu5C02145; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8ADD8E.DE438E73_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:53:50 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] TR: Folbots on the Columbia 2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Folbots on the Columbia River, WA/OR Rainier, OR to Aldrich Point, OR (near Brownsmead) Thursday, August 23, five of us Folboters (one clothed in a hardshell) gathered at the boat ramp in Rainier, Oregon, dodging aggressive Chinook fishers and angry rain. After a long drive to set up a shuttle at the takeout at Aldrich Point, near Brownsmead, Oregon, the other four lunched in warm comfort in a local greasy spoon. I finished up tasks and stood guard over Peter's Aleut, Mike's Kodiak, John/Matt's sexy Super, and my heathen hardshell. By the crack of one o'clock, we were on the water, streaming with the current, and soon under the Longview Bridge, Peter and the Super boys actually _through_ one of the support structures! Favorable current and wind put us into a backwater channel on the Oregon side of our target island (Walker), and not long after we took the bottom of Walker around to the shipping channel side, shopping for the absolutely best campsite. No table appeared, so we had to settle for scenery and a nice, steep beach. An easy seven miles. An hour or two later saw dinner in preparation as we lazed on damp forest litter, and Mike fished. By dark most of us were ready for beddie-bye, disturbed only by the racket (at 1 am) of a downbound paddlewheel steamer, and intense sodium vapor lights from Longview's mills. Overnight a gentle mist spattered us (the only precipitation we had on this trip), making the morning packup a little slower. The 24th was the money day, so we hit the water early, gunkholing the OR shore past a picturesque, rotting gillnet shed and several wing dams, some the nesting perches for osprey. Soon the upper end of Dead Wild Pig Island appeared, and we snared the upper end for a break. John counseled us into a slide down the WA shore of this island so we could check out the "backup" campsites. One good one was spotted, a hundred yards upstream from a pair of stranded damsels, to whom we nodded and went on. Our desired site on the Oregon side of this island was occupied, so we backtracked to the backup. A few hefty heaves from the five strong boys and two strong damsels, and their boat was afloat. Then we felt justified in making camp amongst the cottonwoods and willows where others had set up several tables of driftwood. About ten miles of river travel. Tents up and gear stowed, the Aleut (Peter) and the Super (John/Matt) made the journey south, down Wallace Slough and up the Clatskanie River, to join the oncoming throng of nine: Rich (Folcraft/Featherbot) and Gia (Kodiak) from Corvallis OR, AnnC (Aleut) from MA, hardsheller Tina the Bentobabe from Portland OR, Andy and Jerry (G II) from Salem OR and Bakersfield CA, Brian (another hardsheller) from Seattle, and Rich and UnMi (G II) from Tacoma WA. 'Round four o'clock, the throng arrived at camp, just in time for a massive freighter wake thrash. Intensive tenting and food preparation ensued. Tina got her guacamole, I got my chips and salsa, and serious munching began. Tamales, instant chili, mexican rice, wow! this group can eat! and other delectables disappeared. More freighters and an upriver paddlewheeler livened the evening, some (Corvallis Rich in command) jabbering into the late hours. The 25th, Dave the stern taskmaster banged on tent poles at 6:20 am, and by 9:15 we were on the water, pushing the last of a gentle morning fog away. Down the Washington shore past channel markers and vertical gardens (some, poison oak), all of us drifted, tailwind and current assisting, to aptly-named Cape Horn. Peter split off early so he could make a quick return to the Bay area. Gia and Corvallis Rich sprinted ahead, eventually sidetripping down an interior channel of Puget Island, while the main batch took a broader route (the Cathlamet Channel) in sun on flat water. Cathlamet WA the village passed by, and we all congregated some 11 miles later on the upriver shore of Tenasillahee Island, a broad expanse of dredge spoil sand salted with scotch broom, willows, and cottonwoods. Most trudged to the distant treeline for its shelter and driftwood tables to camp, and a few took the river's edge for the scenery and its cool waters. Before dinner, most had swum in the river. Mike fished and fished, but did not catch. Heat descended on us, leavened by minute amounts of beer. Eventually Tina produced more chicken and dumplings than we could eat, Brian divulged a salad, and Gia made curry on cous cous. Tina's nut bars filled the small gaps remaining while others stargazed. I had a lumpy night, the product of a poor choice of ground, but judging from the _incredible_ snores, others had no problems. Sunday the 26th we lazed and ate (I made pancakes), hoping a band of Tenasillahee fairies would haul our gear to the beach. None appeared, so it was not until 11 am that we departed. The vanguard took a longer route, eventually paralleling our island and the shipping channel for a couple miles, and cutting the next one downstream through the middle (nice, bayou-type banks), yielding a view of Quinn Island, the last one before our takeout. This larger bunch beat the wind on a hasty thrust down the Oregon side (Clifton Channel and Prairie Channel) to Aldrich Point. About seven miles, give or take one. I joined the three who launched late for an incredible lunch on a muddy islet between Tenasillahee and Welch islands, at the downstream end of the Red Slough. Thanks to Gia, Rich (the Corvallis one), and Ann for the olives, smoked salmon, bread, chocolate, etc.! We four braved the now-howling winds outside, pushing slowly against the air, eventually gaining some lee against the Oregon side, dodging deadheads and rocks, to come up on a nearly vacant beach at Aldrich Point some two hours later. John Haide soon had me shuttled back to my vehicle in Rainier, Oregon, and not long after four of us hit a nasty logger restaurant for sumptuous grilled oysters (somebody had a double order -- hope they all worked), coffee, and pie. Our statistics: Thirty-five miles covered, two acres of skin sunburned, a couple cases of potables consumed, tons of fun, and a few dozen blisters acquired. Three hardshells, one folder of Canadian origin, two Aleuts, two Kodiaks, one Super, and two Greenland II's. Ya shoulda been there! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 17:48:54 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22617 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22610 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09189 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7S0mSp28974 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:48:28 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16299 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12955 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wymple.gs.net (IDENT:1mv5H2hINCt12tcM3Vtndjv/MAUw6eb4_at_wymple.gs.net [198.3.156.65]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07931 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hebert (seacajun.gs.net [204.252.210.120]) by wymple.gs.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA12271; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:00:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002801c12f3b$c54390c0$78d2fccc_at_hebert> From: "Arthur Hebert" <seacajun_at_gs.net> To: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net>, "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:03:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net From: Rev. Bob Carter <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> >Survival is about will and resourcefulness not equipment. >As the hitchhikers guide to the galaxies says "DON'T PANIC" >A "SCARED" person will panic thus possibly die, and a fool without "FEAR" has just as great of a chance to die as a person that is scared. A fact documented with people in concentration camps, sea, ice, war or jungle in survival situations "the mind goes before the body". Arthur Hebert Louisiana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 18:44:51 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10899 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10894 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com (imail_at_femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.18]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16701 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c1574092a ([24.12.215.114]) by femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP id <20010828014430.YPJD11524.femail28.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_c1574092a> for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:44:30 -0700 Reply-To: <jim.tynan_at_home.com> From: "Jim Tynan" <jim.tynan_at_home.com> To: "Paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Spray skirt trade, anyone? Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:54:06 -0500 Message-ID: <MABBLJDCLBOCPAHHMIABKEPDCDAA.jim.tynan_at_home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Anyone out there who has outgrown their spray skirt?!? I recently bought a custom-made, reinforced Snapdragon for my Romany Explorer. Since then, I've lost 20-plus pounds and about three inches off my waist. Now the XL tube is way too large -- and I'm gettin' tired of bailing water out every 15 minutes!!! Anyone want to trade for another Snapdragon with an L tube and in good to excellent condition? Let me know ... Jim Tynan Pike Road, AL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 18:59:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14344 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14339 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f193.law11.hotmail.com [64.4.17.193]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23737 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:59:01 -0700 Received: from 63.30.28.242 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:59:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.30.28.242] From: "Kenneth Johnson" <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> To: dkruger_at_pacifier.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] TR: Folbots on the Columbia 2001 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:59:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <F1936uIU1Gj03oHMwVN00013c7e_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2001 01:59:01.0965 (UTC) FILETIME=[02495FD0:01C12F65] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html by demime 0.92b Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dave...fantastic trip report. Really enjoyed it. Almost like being there....and you are right, I shudda been there! Any pictures? Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 20:01:47 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04937 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04932 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04209 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7S31Ip29091 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:01:18 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16359 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25958 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpimssmtpu04.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu04.email.msn.com [207.46.181.80]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15650 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway ([172.150.33.114]) by cpimssmtpu04.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:58:15 -0700 From: "Sidney Stone" <snstone_at_msn.com> To: "Ulli Hoeger" <uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca>, <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Lessons learned !? Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:57:34 -0700 Message-ID: <NFBBKNFDCLKJCLHOLBAICENCCCAA.snstone_at_msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3B83DBD3.2648.182C6EA_at_localhost> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2001 00:58:15.0866 (UTC) FILETIME=[850AD1A0:01C12F5C] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Ulli wrote <<(Lesson 5: Need to find a better spot for my towline as well, behind the seat it is hard to get out) Towed her to the next island with a rocky beach ~~100m away (Lesson 6: towing even for a short distance is no fun, leave that to other people in the group).>> When I have myself in towing situation, there is not time to dig thru a hatch or get a towline from under some bungies. The tow belt should be worn and ready to use! sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 20:02:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05109 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05104 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05790 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7S32Bp29103 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:02:11 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA16366 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17001 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ecp1.hostcentric.net (newns2.hostcentric.net [216.157.108.252]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA29266 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:03:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 15358 invoked by uid 500); 28 Aug 2001 02:03:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m1001.hostcentric.net) (209.25.225.253) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 02:03:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 30118 invoked by uid 500); 28 Aug 2001 02:03:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lab) (24.188.102.124) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 02:03:47 -0000 Reply-To: <Larry_at_dealsource.com> From: "Larry A. Bear" <Larry_at_dealsource.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] FW: Waterproof paper and pen. Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: <001e01c12f65$cfca7980$1e00a8c0_at_bearco.sterlingbear.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Finally figured out how to send the message to the list. LB -----Original Message----- From: Larry A. Bear [mailto:Larry_at_dealsource.com] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 6:48 PM To: 'BillJurow_at_aol.com'; 'owner-nyckayaker_at_envirolink.org' Subject: RE: Waterproof paper and pen. Here's a link to the original manufacturer of waterproof paper. You can buy direct. https://riteintherain.safeserver.com/home.html Here's a link to the paper that can be printed on and is waterproof: http://www.weatherwriter.com/weatherwriter/products/zecom/zecom.htm Larry -----Original Message----- From: owner-nyckayaker_at_envirolink.org [mailto:owner-nyckayaker_at_envirolink.org]On Behalf Of BillJurow_at_aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 1:09 PM To: Yv22n5_at_aol.com; nyckayaker_at_envirolink.org Subject: Re: Waterproof paper and pen. Thanks for the Campmor catalog hint for waterproof paper. I have also seen waterproof printer paper but I can not find it again. Has anyone seen that too. Would love to print from my downloaded maps etc. Thanks Bill *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Mon Aug 27 21:36:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02561 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02556 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03381 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip229.ast2.pacifier.com [66.43.8.229]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7S4YQC03808; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8B1ECE.BC993295_at_pacifier.com> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:32:14 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kenneth Johnson <johnsonkw_at_hotmail.com> CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] TR: Folbots on the Columbia 2001 References: <F1936uIU1Gj03oHMwVN00013c7e_at_hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Kenneth Johnson wrote: > > [snip] Any pictures? Ken Some on the Folbot Web Board, under Folbot Photo Album. You can look without registering at http://www.folbot.com/yak.htm -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 03:39:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22936 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22929 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17146 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7SAcxp29462 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:38:59 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA16514 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06375 Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Gproaction_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10696 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gproaction_at_aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.87.f35f8c7 (3703) for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87.f35f8c7.28bc7cfb_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:50:03 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] FW: Waterproof paper and pen. To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Try using "Wet Notes" notebooks. They will work with any pencil and most pens. REALLY waterproof. These books (about 4" x 8") are great. Many sporting goods and outdoor stores already have them. From ES Ritchie & Sons --781-826-5131 Regards, George Miller ~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 05:08:42 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA21310 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21304 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11620 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.7a.19f9803f (4380) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a.19f9803f.28bce3a8_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:08:08 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Skeg placement To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10527 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Anybody know of a generally accepted formula for the fore-aft placement of a deployable skeg? Would rather have an algorithm to blame when I've finished cutting a slot in the keel of my CLC North Bay if the boat still weathercocks. Lacking nautical architectural concepts, my intuition is to put it about two thirds of the way down the waterline from the aft bulkhead, located just behind the seat --- the North Bay having a good deal of upsweep fore and aft, that puts the skeg about half way from the the aft bulkhead to the stern. Ideas? Even better, datapoints? Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 06:17:40 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13323 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13318 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moe.intelos.net (moe-if-2.intelos.net [216.12.23.243]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24362 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 06:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17764 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 09:17:14 -0400 Received: from chas2-216-12-119-3.access.ntelos.net (HELO lizard) (216.12.119.3) by moe.intelos.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 09:17:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3B8B9952.532A_at_newwave.net> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:14:58 -0400 From: David Walker <dwalker_at_newwave.net> Reply-To: dwalker_at_newwave.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gavncats_at_ix.netcom.com CC: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] folbot question References: <18.11657262.28bbd32b_at_aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Niilus_at_aol.com wrote: > There is a review of the Folbot Kodiak in the December 2000 issue of Sea > Kayaker, you could order the back issue or a copy of the article from them at > (206)789-9536. > Or you may read the same review on line at : http://www.seakayakermag.com/reviews.htm the link to the kodiak review at at the bottom of the page. regards, david *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 08:22:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23594 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23589 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10606.mail.yahoo.com (web10606.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.170]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14779 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010828152202.66366.qmail_at_web10606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.230.132] by web10606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:02 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Drytop pant combos To: Scot Hume <scot_hume_at_yahoo.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > I use a drytop with a hydrofuzz farmer john + thermal layers under it > for ww paddling here in Colorado. I'm heading out to the Seattle/ > Portland area to do a little seakayaking with a friend in a few weeks. Do you know how to self-rescue in the event you might capsize? As a WW paddler, you probably know how to roll, and your bracing skills will be better than the average sea kayaker, so you're probably okay. If you and your buddy can help each other with assisted rescues, then you oughta be just fine. It's folks who have absolutely no rescue (or capsize prevention) skills to begin with who are both more likely to get in, and stay in the cold water, who desperately need all the immersion protection available. (This is much different advice than I would give to someone with little-to-no paddling experience) Drysuits are recommended, but not absolutely necessary. Drytops over FJ wetsuits are a popular option for a lot of people. Hydrofuzz isn't quite as warm as neoprene, but it's a heckuva lot better than the cotton or nylon windbreakers people are found floating in. It's a relative risk thing. If you're not as likely to go in the water, the level of immersion protection required is not quite as great. You still need to dress for a base level of immersion, though. Wearing no immersion protection at all in the cold PNW climate is a bad idea. Shawn Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 08:33:18 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26756 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26751 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from md1-smtp.kp.org (md1-smtp.kp.org [162.119.241.3]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22753 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.kp.org (relay.tointerior.grn [172.21.128.22]) by md1-smtp.kp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26843 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oa.or.kp.org by ktazp599.crdc.kp.org with ESMTP for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:55 -0700 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.OA.OR.KP.ORG by OA.OR.KP.ORG (PMDF V6.0-24 #46285) id <01K7NT06Z3W000BFR0_at_OA.OR.KP.ORG> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pop.mts.kpnw.org (ns0105.or.kp.org [10.50.3.95]) by OA.OR.KP.ORG (PMDF V6.0-24 #46285) with ESMTP id <01K7NT06PHBC005XZY_at_OA.OR.KP.ORG> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:17 -0700 From: "E. Sullivan" <sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org> Subject: [Paddlewise] Une Petite Paddler To: pw <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Reply-to: sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org Message-Id: <3B8BB8CD.5BD2D797_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org> Organization: Kaiser Permanente MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net There's been a thread about little boats for little folk... forgive me if I missed it, but has anybody experienced the Pygmy A. Tern 14? Seems a little broad abeam? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 09:14:02 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09601 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09477 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19507 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7SGDip30291 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:13:44 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16621 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24354 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imf03bis.bellsouth.net (mail203.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.58.143]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17810 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bdenton ([208.61.113.143]) by imf03bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with ESMTP id <20010828121911.YBBR17213.imf03bis.bellsouth.net_at_bdenton>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:19:11 -0400 Reply-To: <bob_at_ecozoneintl.com> From: "Bob Denton" <gulfstream_at_flinet.com> To: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Skeg placement Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:19:19 -0400 Organization: EcoZone International Message-ID: <001401c12fbb$aa0a34f0$8f713dd0_at_bdenton> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <7a.19f9803f.28bce3a8_at_aol.com> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I'm guessing that the further back the more effect the skeg will have on tracking BUT the more likely to be lifted out of the water while surfing. So I guess it's a compromise between CoG and conditions. In addition there is the issue of breaking up usable storage by having the skeg too far forward. My Nordkaap's skeg's fulcrum is 38" from the beginning of the upsweep on an almost 18' boat. The slot is 16". I hope that helps. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 13:14:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24467 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24462 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com (imo-r10.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00232 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.35.1a03e6eb (16788); Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35.1a03e6eb.28bd5582_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:13:54 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fishing from a Kayak To: AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com, PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-26 11:42:43 EDT, AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com writes: << Ocean Kayak makes a boat called the ambush that is specifically made for fishing and hunting. >> check out the www.wildernesssystems.com Pamlico. It's 14.5" with a 7' cockpit and can be paddled tandem or solo. The seats slide so there is plenty of room. I'm selling mine for $550 with rudder and mini-spray deck. The deluxe spraydeck is unused and cost me $150, so I'd like $100 for that. sandy kramer miami, florida *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 15:08:12 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29648 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29642 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13761 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7SM7Pp30685 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:07:25 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16846 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20702 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exeter.exeter.org (bogus_at_exeter.exeter.org [207.87.144.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24929 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ashton_at_localhost) by exeter.exeter.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24646 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:40:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:40:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashton Treadway <ashton_at_tundra.org> X-X-Sender: <ashton_at_exeter.exeter.org> Reply-To: <ashton_at_tundra.org> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear In-Reply-To: <000401c12f1d$f736b800$3ad0150c_at_carter> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108281737420.24579-100000_at_exeter.exeter.org> Organization: Pocket Baboon Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Agreed. The most crucial ingredients in a survival situation (this is purely my own opinion based on practical experience) are: -Not losing your head -Water If you panic, you'll wind up in much worse trouble than you would be in if you kept your head. Use the survival tool between your ears; it's one of the best you have. .ashton On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Rev. Bob Carter wrote: > Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:30:27 -0800 > From: Rev. Bob Carter <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> > To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear > > Having been in a survival situation (hiking not kayaking) and having taught > wilderness survival, the main piece of equipment that seperates the living > and the dead is your attitude. There are many stories of people surviving > terrible situations with no gear at all where others have perished with all > the survival gear they could carry. ("well dressed corpses", in search and > rescue lingo) > Survival is about will and resourcefulness not equipment. > As the hitchhikers guide to the galaxies says "DON'T PANIC" > Bob [snipped] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 17:09:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07206 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07201 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.snet.net (smtp.snet.net [204.60.6.55]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04005 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsmith16 (215.232.252.64.snet.net [64.252.232.215]) by smtp.snet.net (8.12.0.Beta12/8.12.0.Beta12/SNET-mx-1.5/D-evisionO-evision$) with SMTP id f7T091N8026878 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c1301e$990861a0$d7e8fc40_at_wsmith16> From: "Wayne Smith" <wsmith16_at_snet.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Trip Report, Johnstone Strait, BC Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:07:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net It's on my site at http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/BC.html Fun trip. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 18:32:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05373 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05310 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT) From: HTERVORT_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28382 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from HTERVORT_at_aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.122.3b5bb49 (4587); Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <122.3b5bb49.28bd9ff7_at_aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:31:35 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg placement To: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/28/01 5:09:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com writes: > Anybody know of a generally accepted formula for the fore-aft placement of a > deployable skeg? No, but I can tell you what I did when I retrofitted one into my Sealution. I pulled catalogs showing a number of boats that successfully used skegs (VCP, CD & others) and scaled off them the percentage placement in relation to the approximate waterline and also in relation to the distance between the approx. center of rotation (usually somewhere between the paddler's belly and knees) and the stern. Then I did a number of comparisons and finally took a guess-biased average and started cutting. Worked fine. Nearly caused me a heart attack. Actually, you don't want it too far aft or you lose maneuverability and it will clear the water too soon. Since it is adjustable, I figured it probably isn't all that critical -- unless you had a skeg with very little area. Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Tue Aug 28 21:09:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24099 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24093 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02661 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7T48fp31325 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:08:41 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17113 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23612 Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: FoldingBoats_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com (imo-m04.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.7]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02049 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FoldingBoats_at_aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.69.1a059fca (2171) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69.1a059fca.28bdc3ad_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:03:57 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Gear To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10527 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/27/01 3:24:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revkayak_at_mtaonline.net writes: > Having been in a survival situation (hiking not kayaking) and having taught > wilderness survival, the main piece of equipment that seperates the living > and the dead is your attitude. There are many stories of people surviving > terrible situations with no gear at all where others have perished with all > the survival gear they could carry. ("well dressed corpses", in search and > rescue lingo) Survival is about will and resourcefulness not equipment. As > the hitchhikers guide to the galaxies says "DON'T PANIC" This is the point Dr. Hannes Lindemann set out to investigate / prove, when he crossed the Atlantic twice in consecutive years alone in small, open boats. It comes across well in his book, "Alone at Sea". Best regards, Ralph Ralph C. Hoehn Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 01:11:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA12536 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12495 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from post.tau.ac.il (post.tau.ac.il [132.66.16.11]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29731 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 01:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from joshlap.post.tau.ac.il (gilman422.tau.ac.il [132.66.160.51]) by post.tau.ac.il (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7T8Amd06622 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:10:50 +0300 (IDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829110605.0236dc60_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: teitelba/post.tau.ac.il_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:09:02 +0200 To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Joshua Teitelbaum <teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il> Subject: [Paddlewise] Marine-grade lock? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Dear Friends: I have had the worst luck with padlocks used to secure our kayaks at our local marina. The sea air corrodes them with astonishing speed. A special "marine" lock was worthless. Constant squirts of oil help a little but not much. Any suggestions? Thanks, Josh ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_post.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 04:04:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08607 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08601 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:04:27 -0700 (PDT) From: SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16396 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.17.1aa72a4b (3988) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17.1aa72a4b.28be2632_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Skeg placement To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 29 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/29/01 1:37:49 AM, HTERVORT_at_aol.com writes: << Actually, you don't want it too far aft or you lose maneuverability and it will clear the water too soon. Since it is adjustable, I figured it probably isn't all that critical -- unless you had a skeg with very little area. >> Hi all, Any skeg is most effective, with respect to weathercocking, the further astern it's located, providing it stays submerged the majority of the time. Loss of maneuverability, while not the point of a skeg, is a byproduct of the skeg's proper function. A smaller skeg, further back will create less drag than a larger skeg closer to midship and may well counter weathercocking better as well due to the increased distance from the boats rotational center. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 05:22:58 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04143 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04129 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: KiAyker_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03927 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from KiAyker_at_aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.6.1b2dac25 (4226) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6.1b2dac25.28be3884_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:22:28 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Osprey Gulfstream Double/Single? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Has anybody here ever heard of an Osprey Gulfstream double kayak? I had someone mention it to me the other day and it sounds interesting. Apparently it comes in three pieces so you can remove the center cockpit and make a single out of it. Has anybody here ever tried one of these? If so, what were your thoughts on construction and handling of the double and the single? Thanks, Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 08:39:37 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04575 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04570 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04365 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7TFcpp32431 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:38:51 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17357 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07361 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09473 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 68F4F9BAB; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdc22251; Wed Aug 29 08:33:11 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.12) with SMTP id M2001082908314331472 ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:31:43 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRRXTG>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:31:46 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A860_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "Paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: "John Sylvia (E-mail)" <thesylviafamily_at_msn.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Pamlico Angler Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:31:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Good Morning, P'Wisers, My brother is a non-paddler, but is interested in a boat for fresh water bass fishing and for getting a little excercise. He's in the Knoxville, TN area, and is considering the Pamlico Angler from Wilderness Systems. Anyone have any experience with that boat? Sandy, you posted a Pamlico for sale. Is one of the seats "removable", or just movable, and do you (or any P'Wiser) know the specific differences between the Pamlico and the Pamlico Angler, that would make the Angler version a preferred boat over the Pamlico for fishing? My thought is that my brother might consider Sandy's boat if one of the seats is removable, and he doesn't mind making a few slight modifications such as adding a rod holder, anchor holder, etc. By doing that, he can also put the second seat back in from time to time and paddle with his wife or one of his kids. Any thoughts or suggestions? And Sandy ---- NO, HE WON'T BE DUCK HUNTING FROM IT! Just thought I'd defuse that one before you beat me to the punch. I could see it coming from 1,000 miles away! :-) Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 09:22:55 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19473 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19468 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05191 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7TGMfp32515 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:22:41 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17423 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10864 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:59:24 -0700 (PDT) From: AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com (imo-r03.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.99]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17481 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.c.1a3f75bd (17528); Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <c.1a3f75bd.28be6b4f_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:59:11 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Pamlico Angler To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi, I have a Pamlico XL, the longer tandem version. It has two seats plus a little child seat with no back. We go out in it with our toddler and it is very stable... he can move from side to side and throw rocks, etc. with nary a wobble. However, we found that it didn't track very well until we bought and installed the rudder. I believe that the only difference between the regular Pamlicos and the Angler versions is that the fishing ones have a rod holder and other such gear. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 10:34:03 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11128 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11122 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22724 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.74.f6372f2 (3975); Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <74.f6372f2.28be816f_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:33:35 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Pamlico Angler To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-29 11:40:26 EDT, you write: << Sandy, you posted a Pamlico for sale. Is one of the seats "removable", or just movable, >> both seats are attached to a metal "thing" (!) that slides over a metal bar. It has a little doohickey (pin) that you put in a hole to lock it in place. (How's that for a completely non-technical description. IOW, you can't remove a seat. <<know the specific differences between the Pamlico and the Pamlico Angler, that would make the Angler version a preferred boat over the Pamlico for fishing? >> I think it has something to do with a mount option or the actual inclusion as a package of a trolling motor. The Pamlico with a rudder and taxes is about $1,000 (I think). Not sure how much the angler boat/package is. I believe I've seen it in catalogs like Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops. Mine is teal/turquoise. sandy kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 10:37:24 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11569 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11562 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com (imo-m08.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.163]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23382 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.8f.f2a5562 (3975); Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f.f2a5562.28be8242_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:37:06 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Pamlico Angler To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net CC: thesylviafamily_at_msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-29 11:40:26 EDT, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com writes: << My thought is that my brother might consider Sandy's boat if one of the seats is removable, and he doesn't mind making a few slight modifications such as adding a rod holder, anchor holder, etc. >> To paddle it solo, you slide the seats back...and the paddler sits on the front seat that has shifted to a center position ...that leaves ample space in front (remember, it's a 7-foot cockpit) and then you have storage space (cooler, for example) on the rear seat. The boat has flotation bags sandy kramer who is trying to visualize it and thinks she has it right! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 10:41:32 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13774 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13739 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:41:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26401 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gypsykayak_at_aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id 3.102.83a604a (3975); Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <102.83a604a.28be832e_at_aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:41:02 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Pamlico Angler To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net CC: thesylviafamily_at_msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 86 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 01-08-29 12:23:30 EDT, AdrianNEFF_at_aol.com writes: << Hi, I have a Pamlico XL, the longer tandem version. It has two seats plus a little child seat with no back. We go out in it with our toddler and it is very stable... he can move from side to side and throw rocks, etc. with nary a wobble. However, we found that it didn't track very well until we bought and installed the rudder. I believe that the only difference between the regular Pamlicos and the Angler versions is that the fishing ones have a rod holder and other such gear. >> The first time I tried to paddle it tandem we kept going round in circles....$250 and a rudder later.... (I included the whole narrative because Rick's brother was not included) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 11:35:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00414 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00408 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04156 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7TIZZp32672 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:35:35 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17521 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27664 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe13.law12.hotmail.com [64.4.18.117]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28137 for <PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:29:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [194.236.31.66] From: "Warwick Carter" <wdctr_at_hotmail.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Marine grade lock Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:27:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <OE13tgFrYILoygXLsxp00006358_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Aug 2001 18:29:40.0583 (UTC) FILETIME=[90E07770:01C130B8] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "padlocks used to secure our kayaks at our local marina. " I used to paddle to uni and lock my kayak to either a wharf or pontoon with a length of stainless steel braided wire rope, a length of chain (around the paddle shaft) and SS wire hand loops. I went through about 3 cheap padlocks until I bought a Lockwood marine padlock - It's basically a normal padlock with a 'brass' hasp. We had them in the Navy also, so the material's got a bit more guts than ordinary brass. I think the springs are brass or similar also. I had to go to a locksmith to get it, but after that I had no more problems with corroded locks. It also helped having an el cheapo kayak. Remember, locks only stop honest people! Warwick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 19:02:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21734 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21701 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25633 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7U20pp00629 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:00:51 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17665 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07034 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tonnant.cnchost.com (tonnant.concentric.net [207.155.248.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28143 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by tonnant.cnchost.com id VAA17334; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:16:13 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <017b01c130f1$585b13e0$6501a8c0_at_sah350> From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] Jaws!!! Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:16:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net My wife has just gotten around to reading last weeks local weekly paper and an article caught her attention and she thought that since both of us are kayakers I should read it too. It seems that a local 14 year old boy was kayak fishing with his dad the previous week. He was approximately 100 yards off of Point Dume in 30 - 60 feet of water when he hooked a 10 - 12 foot thresher shark. The shark pulled him out to sea for over two miles. His Dad followed in his boat and was paddling at his maximum speed. The fish was caught on a 12 inch mackerel lure and 30 pound line. They finally brought the shark to the boat after fighting it for over two hours. Threshers usually hit their prey with their tails to stun them and then eat them. As a result, they usually get hooked in the tail. The boy was quoted as saying that the tail of a thresher is normally about 4 feet long but they had over 4 feet of tail out of the water and they still couldn't see the butt end of the shark. They released the lure from the tail and then released the fish. There was a picture of the smaller 188 pounder that they landed in the paper--I'm sure glad they found the sharks and that I didn't. ;-) If you are interested in reading the full article, it can be found on-line at http://www.toacorn.com/News/2001/0823/Community/040.html Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Wed Aug 29 19:08:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23280 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23272 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29605 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7U27np00653 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:07:49 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA17694 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16383 Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.16]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16603 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from micron (ool-18bca27f.dyn.optonline.net [24.188.162.127]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GIU00E43Y1BA9_at_mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:44:27 -0400 From: Bob Volin <bobvolin_at_optonline.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Marine-grade lock? To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Message-id: <001601c130f5$4de41ac0$7fa2bc18_at_micron> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010829110605.0236dc60_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Joshua There are two excellent anti-corrosion products I'm aware of (and grateful thanks to the two paddlers who told me about them): 1. Corrosion Block, made by Lear Chemical Research www.learchem.com 2. Boeshield T-9, made by the Boeing Company to lubricate and protect aircraft components Give one or both a try -- they ought to be more effective than oil. Regards, bv *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 08:43:07 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03538 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03533 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26228 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UFfqp01987 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:41:52 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17946 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24816 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08030 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prodigy.net (ip-111-147-45.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.111.147.45]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7U8mcZ257448 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:48:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3B8DFDE5.E8F36038_at_prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:48:37 -0500 From: "Robert J. Matter" <rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET> Reply-To: rjmatter_at_PRODIGY.NET Organization: http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org NEXT RIDE 8/31! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Excerpted from the essay "The Moving Target" in _Fresh Air Fiend_ by Paul Theroux (Houghton Mifflin, 2000): --- 'Anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly indicates that anyone who jogs or rows or cycles in the open, in this free country, is asking for some kind of trouble. As I've said, it ranges from an obscene gesture to an attempt at murder. This is worth examining as a social phenomenon because we take for granted that it will happen, but also because it is a specifically American occurence. I have cycled and rowed in other countries, and I have been stared at, but not harassed. The agression in the American reaction often has a comic veneer, the bullying, joshing sort which characterizes a certain variety of our humor and which makes it indistinguishable from sadism. The origin of this kind of heckling might be summed up in the old time shriek, "Get a horse!" but it is much more serious than it seems, and I believe it constitutes an actual threat. In the most common situation, the threat comes from more than one person-- rarely is it one on one. The group of people in the car or speedboat, the phalanx of jet skiers, are nearly always male. Their response appears to be a reflex of violent envy directed against an isolated and vulnerable person--the skimpily clothed jogger, the madly balancing paddler, the panting cyclist. It is like an objection to the assertive freedom and health implicit in these pastimes, and it might be bound up with the suspicion--in a minority of cases a well founded suspicion--that someone who excercises this way so publicly is showing off. Yet the response is so lacking in tolerance that I cannot help but think that at its source is a wild anger, a fear and frustration, at being faced by a free spirit, someone who cannot be controlled. And the instance where the foolish person plows by in a speedboat and lets loose a loud and stupid remark might be explained by his sudden realization that for once in his life he is stronger and faster and apparently superior. Such a person would deny he is a criminal, and yet his reaction is the impulse behind most crime: the eagerness to commit an act of violence because the victim seems weak, ludicrous, exposed, and naked--victims nearly always seem that way. Crime is a monstrous sort of unfairness, and so it is always in the criminal's interest to pick on an especially weak or supine target.' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 09:36:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19823 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19818 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) From: elias.ross_at_openwave.com Received: from oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net (oe-mp2pub.managedmail.com [206.46.164.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02438 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.27]) by oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.03.08 201-253-122-118-108-20010628) with ESMTP id <20010830163504.VGOO70.oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs. net> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:35:04 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.14.128.39]) by oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.03.08 201-253-122-118-108-20010628) with ESMTP id <20010830163437.DSN943.oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_openwave.com> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3B8E6B57.4C9B960C_at_openwave.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:35:35 -0400 Organization: Openwave X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3-20mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view References: <3B8DFDE5.E8F36038_at_prodigy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "Robert J. Matter" wrote: > Excerpted from the essay "The Moving Target" in > _Fresh Air Fiend_ by Paul Theroux (Houghton Mifflin, 2000) > 'Anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly indicates that anyone who jogs or rows or > cycles in the open, in this free country, is asking for some kind of > trouble [in America] I disagree. I've seen this attitude living in Japan, if only once or twice. One memorable occasion, I was threated by a rude Japanese driver while cycling in Sendai, who was possibly a gangster by the way he talked. He was with his girlfriend (I assume) and seemed to enjoy showing off his male dominance. I've seen teenagers equally as threatening, especially those in customized and souped-up automobiles. My wife (who is Japanese) tells me that fishermen in Japan throw rocks at kayakers, especially those who get in the way of fishing in the many rivers. Supposedly, they are afraid that the kayakers are disturbing the fish and their fishing. Possibly they share the same rage as kayakers who hate the loud and rowdy antics of Jet-skis in city lakes and waterways. I have yet to see it myself, but I can easily imagine a bunch of cranky old Japanese fishermen throwing rocks at me. - Elias *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 10:17:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02737 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02731 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29117 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:16:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UHGZp02119 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:16:35 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18021 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02274 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28149 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UHD9p02104 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:13:09 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18009 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108301714.KAA18009_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: elias.ross_at_openwave.com > > "Robert J. Matter" wrote: > > > Excerpted from the essay "The Moving Target" in > > _Fresh Air Fiend_ by Paul Theroux (Houghton Mifflin, 2000) > > 'Anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly indicates that anyone who jogs or rows or > > cycles in the open, in this free country, is asking for some kind of > > trouble [in America] > > I disagree. I've seen this attitude living in Japan, if only once or > twice. I wouldn't take Paul Theroux's psychological analysis too seriously. You could pull any number of quotes from any number of his books that would be highly offensive to the people of the country he has visited. I don't see the point or value in Robert's posting nor do I care about Theroux's opinion on American psyche (though I do enjoy his writings but only in small portions at a time :-). I highly suspect that ego is present worldwide. What I think is important is to know the best way to handle (or avoid) situations in various places. Cultural differences can create difficult situations and it might be interesting to note how not to step on your neighbor's toes when traveling in their part of the world. Paul Theroux is not my idea of the happy hiker. I think I'd look to others to find the best experiences in travel. Debating which culture or nation is the most hostile doesn't really serve the list and is only going to succeed in offending nice people. Just my opinion which is not infallible :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 12:12:39 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09620 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09614 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10603.mail.yahoo.com (web10603.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.167]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA17630 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010830191213.58366.qmail_at_web10603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.184.21] by web10603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:12:13 PDT Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Une Petite Paddler To: "E. Sullivan" <sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "E. Sullivan" <sullivaned_at_pop.mts.kpnw.org> wrote: >There's been a thread about little boats for little folk... >forgive me if I missed it, but has anybody experienced the >Pygmy A. Tern 14? Seems a little broad abeam? It's only 22" or 23" wide, IIRC. Quite easily driven and wouldn't be nearly the handful that a smaller person would experience in the AT 17. Would also be a good "play" boat for a larger person. Shawn Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 13:07:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25897 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25885 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22969 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UK77p02349 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:07:07 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18121 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06843 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13430 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pg1 (d19.as0.hdsn.mi.voyager.net [216.93.83.148]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id f7UJ65k06898 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20010830150802.85473aec_at_pop.dmci.net> X-Sender: boydwe_at_pop.dmci.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:08:02 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view In-Reply-To: <3B8DFDE5.E8F36038_at_prodigy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 03:48 AM 8/30/01 -0500, you wrote: >Excerpted from the essay "The Moving Target" in _Fresh Air Fiend_ by Paul Theroux (Houghton Mifflin, 2000): >In the most common situation, the threat comes from more than one person-- >rarely is it one on one. The group of people in the car or speedboat, the >phalanx of jet skiers, are nearly always male. Their response appears to be >a reflex of violent envy directed against an isolated and vulnerable >person--the skimpily clothed jogger, the madly balancing paddler, the >panting cyclist. It is like an objection to the assertive freedom and >health implicit in these pastimes, and it might be bound up with the >suspicion--in a minority of cases a well founded suspicion--that someone >who excercises this way so publicly is showing off. With apologies to Jackie, I don't see it necessarily as cultural bashing, and there are certianly jet skiiers out there that fit this description right between the eyeballs, as I can attest from experience. I can't tell you the number of times I've have people yell at me from powerboats, "Hey, that looks like a lot of work!" I have a stock answer: "My doctor told me I had to start an exercise program, and I **KNOW** he was thinking stairmaster." Gets a lot of laughs from the older ones; the young punks are young punks. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 13:08:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25948 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25938 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23214 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UK8Ep02361 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:08:14 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18132 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10169 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) From: elias.ross_at_openwave.com Received: from oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net (oe-mp2pub.managedmail.com [206.46.164.23]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20369 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.27]) by oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.03.08 201-253-122-118-108-20010628) with ESMTP id <20010830191709.BLCU70.oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs. net> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:17:09 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.14.128.39]) by oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.03.08 201-253-122-118-108-20010628) with ESMTP id <20010830191641.CEIV943.oe-ismta2.bizmailsrvcs.net_at_openwave.com> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:16:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3B8E914D.A7CAD567_at_openwave.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:17:33 -0400 Organization: Openwave X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3-20mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view References: <200108301714.KAA18009_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie Fenton wrote: > > What I think is important is to know the best way to > handle (or avoid) situations in various places. Obviously the worst thing to do is act indignant or threaten the bigger or faster. I do hate having to be apologetic to inconvenienced motorists, who I often delay behind my bicycle. I don't see much we can do but be magnanimous, until we have the force of law beside us. I would be interested in people sharing their stories of feeling threated--or being run-over!--so we might gain an understanding of how these situations have been (mis-)handled. How has the law usually responded? And does it make sense to call the coast guard (tattle) on those who are operating their boat recklessly? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 13:27:08 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02285 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02280 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06082 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UKPbp02384 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:25:37 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18166 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00464 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: JSpinner_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01707 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JSpinner_at_aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.f2.ee0123a (25509) for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <f2.ee0123a.28bff9fb_at_aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:20:11 EDT Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Mac - Post-GM sub 146 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net In a message dated 8/30/01 4:12:55 PM, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: << I can't tell you the number of times I've have people yell at me from powerboats, "Hey, that looks like a lot of work!" I have a stock answer: "My doctor told me I had to start an exercise program, and I **KNOW** he was thinking stairmaster." Gets a lot of laughs from the older ones; the young punks are young punks. >> I've heard this a lot of times too but never felt threatened. But I do like the answer. I'll see if my nanosecond memory can remember that next time I hear the work line. Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 14:09:13 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14708 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14703 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03366 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UL8xp02452 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:08:59 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18203 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05432 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclean.mail.mindspring.net (mclean.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.57]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12637 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rdiaz (dialup-64.152.175.105.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.152.175.105]) by mclean.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17038; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01c13193$e86e97c0$69af9840_at_rdiaz> From: "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> To: <elias.ross_at_openwave.com> Cc: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <200108301714.KAA18009_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> <3B8E914D.A7CAD567_at_openwave.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:39:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <elias.ross_at_openwave.com> > I would be interested in people sharing their stories of feeling > threated--or being run-over!--so we might gain an understanding of how > these situations have been (mis-)handled. How has the law usually > responded? And does it make sense to call the coast guard (tattle) on > those who are operating their boat recklessly? I would tend to agree with Paul Theroux in the basic thinking he is expressing in the text that was quoted. Motorboaters and jetskiers appear to feel threatened by our being out there doing with our muscle what they have to do with motors. Some mentioned the old saw of cars going by bicylists and yelling "get a horse." That certainly was true before the recent era of bikes becoming popular again for adults (30 years ago?). The same is true with some motorboaters and kayakers. Our presence in "their" environment sans motors makes THEM feel inferior and so they are giving us a brush back move by coming close. Too they are puzzled. I remember many years ago hiking in the snow with some friends into deep woods. Suddenly some snow mobiles came along. Their first reaction was that OUR snow mobiles had broken down and we needed a ride! They could not fathom anyone being that far from a road and not be on a snow mobile. I see this all the time here when paddling off of Manhattan (BTW, I have an article in the current Canoe & Kayak Magazine, the October issue, on paddling opportunities from Manhattan). Just last Sunday, my wife and I were paddling back from 23rd St to 79th St. when I heard a motorboat coming up fast behind me (I was in the rear kayak). I turned to see him less than a kayak length away from tossing a big wake and not at all smiling, just a stern look on his face that this was his territory and I was the poacher. He had a half mile wide river and he chose to pick a piece just 10 feet from me and do so at full, huge wake creating speed. And, oh, there is the equivalent of the Sunday driver as well, the oblivious motorist. Just a little further along as we passed the Intrepid Aircraft Carrier and were abreast of the large ocean liners berthed just north of it, there was a motorboat drifting through those berths. The operator and his two passengers were buys gawking at the massive ships from up close and not looking where they were going as they waved at people on board the ships. The ocean liner nearest them was quite long and its stern was not far from the edge of the pier and the open river. The motorboat was coming out and about to hit us. I blow my whistle and all three people turned with a "What's your problem?" The problem was they were not looking where they were going. It could have just as easily been a fast moving motorboat and not us and it would have collided with them. Happy kayaking, ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 15:15:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05809 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05803 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20342 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UMFPp02531 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:15:25 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA18244 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05217 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16935 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7UMBLp02517 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:11:21 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA18233 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:12:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108302212.PAA18233_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > With apologies to Jackie, I don't see it necessarily as cultural bashing, > and there are certianly jet skiiers out there that fit this description > right between the eyeballs, as I can attest from experience. I agree with you. However, the discussion began by specifically targeting the "American Psyche" with a psychoanalysis given by a non-expert followed by a defensive reply with an experience in another country intended to prove this happens elsewhere. My guess is that this occurs worldwide and we could devote the next two weeks to various subscribers contributing their experiences in "X-land" as proof. I think the problem of dealing with the harassment, how to avoid and how to report it is important regardless of why (especially when "why" are quotes from a non-member who is a non-expert on behavior). "Why" can be as many reasons as there are those that harass (or those who simply aren't watching where they are going) and I think the individual's perception of what is happening can have a lot to do with that individual's own psyche... especially in the case of Theroux. imo, I don't think quotes from Theroux are a good starting point to solutions if that is the real goal. However, Theroux is great to quote if offending nationalities is the goal. I surely don't dismiss that *some* jetskiiers and *some* powerboaters have been real problems for some sea kayakers (as well as for each other... how is the jetskiier harassing the powerboater an example of picking on someone weaker.. ???? sounds more a case of low gray matter to me). I think this is a problem we will all have to deal with (worldwide) as long as we share the same waters. Laws exist already in an effort to thwart the behavior but there will always be violators. The discussion would better serve the list if it were about what to do, how to avoid, where to report, rather than singling out nationalities or cultures with subjective, armchair psychoanalysis that is sometimes incorrectly applied. Singling out a particular group/nationality only serves to redirect from what is the problem and how to deal with it now. If you paddle in an area with lots of powerboaters and jetskiiers and harassing has been/is a problem, get the coast guard's phone number and carry a cell phone or carry a marine radio. It's amazing how putting a phone or radio to your head suddenly equalizes the situation. Someone once recommended holding a camera up and pointing it at the offender. btw, no need to ever apologize for disagreeing with me. Debate was a favorite family passtime growing up. :-) Regards, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 18:18:33 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01847 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01842 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18838 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7V1I2p02690 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:18:02 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18334 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15085 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from comet.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.155]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09122 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip103.ast1.pacifier.com [66.43.8.103]) by comet.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7UMgQC27850; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B8EC0AF.D2DDCD39_at_pacifier.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:39:43 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view References: <200108302212.PAA18233_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jackie Fenton wrote: > If you paddle in an area with lots of powerboaters and jetskiiers and > harassing has been/is a problem, get the coast guard's phone number and > carry a cell phone or carry a marine radio. It's amazing how putting > a phone or radio to your head suddenly equalizes the situation. Someone > once recommended holding a camera up and pointing it at the offender. Old buddy George, a sometime Paddlewiser, once described to me his most satisfying jet ski encounter: paddling down the Willamette in Portland, OR, he got power-zoomed by a couple guys, and later happened upon them lounging at bankside. After a nonproductive verbal exchange, George paddled on, and radioed the county sheriff patrol, who was put-putting by, with a description of the event and the jet skiers. Said county sheriff was only too happy to nail the offenders at the boat ramp with a chewing-out. Later the sheriff told George that he wished more folks had VHF's so they could readily report encounters. 'Round here, the county marine patrol has greater visibility and presence on inland waterways than the Coast Guard. They monitor channel 16 ... and, they write tickets! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 18:21:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03905 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03870 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21296 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7V1LCp02703 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:21:12 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18346 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10541 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.snet.net (mx2.snet.net [204.60.203.164]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03654 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsmith16 (211.194.252.64.snet.net [64.252.194.211]) by mx2.snet.net (8.12.0.Beta12/8.12.0.Beta12/SNET-mx-1.5/D-evisionO-evision$) with SMTP id f7V08Z5U026021 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006801c131b0$dc267ec0$d3c2fc40_at_wsmith16> From: "Wayne Smith" <wsmith16_at_snet.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> References: <3B8DFDE5.E8F36038_at_prodigy.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:07:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net I both agree and disagree with the points made. In the area I live in (Connecticut), it's more a matter of the wealthy looking down upon the apparently non-wealthy having fun. I've had very few bad encounters both on the water and on bicycles, but when I have it's almost always been with large power boats, expensive sailboats, and on my bike, with a BMW. The "regular people" I meet on the water couldn't be nicer -- in fact, they usually want to know more about what I'm doing. I once had lunch with a lobsterman in Maine while out paddling, and learned all about lobstering, and he learned all about kayaking. I'm sure he looks at kayakers differently now, or at least realizes that the people who might get in his way don't know that they are. Now if you want to talk about the Yankee scorn and insults I get on dry land for going out of my way to enjoy life instead of fathering 5 kids and working 80 hours a week.............. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 18:43:01 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10465 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10460 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06878 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7V1grp02735 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:42:53 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18365 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07394 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isis.its.uow.edu.au (isis.its.uow.edu.au [130.130.68.21]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29935 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unicentre28.uow.edu.au (unicentre28.uow.edu.au [130.130.132.58]) by isis.its.uow.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00843 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:32:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20010831112503.006ff1e0_at_pop.uow.edu.au> X-Sender: ratten_at_pop.uow.edu.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:25:03 +1000 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: PJ Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au> Subject: [Paddlewise] The American Psyche etc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Those of us who are not Americans will readily identify with the key issues raised in this thread, and let me assure my American friends these behaviours are not confined to your nationality! Jackie is absolutely right; idiots come in all shapes, guises and disguises. Heaven forbid, even some Australians are idiots! Intimidatory behaviour is just that;, whether it happens on a cycleway or harbour in Sydney... or in NYC... or on the road to Timbuktu. My 0.2c worth Peter Rattenbury. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 19:03:53 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16747 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16741 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.amsa.gov.au (genesis.amsa.gov.au [203.19.106.35]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19104 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cbrex4.amsa.gov.au (mail.amsa.gov.au.252.2.203.in-addr.arpa [203.2.252.18] (may be forged)) by genesis.amsa.gov.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28414; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:58:47 +1000 (EST) Received: from cbrex3.amsa.gov.au ([203.2.253.11]) by cbrex4.amsa.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:02:46 +1000 Subject: [Paddlewise] A positive note on Theouraux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:02:45 +1000 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <F1B97BED8668D34EAE8B75BBA5DF4210017AF0_at_cbrex3.amsa.gov.au> Thread-Topic: [Paddlewise] The American Psyche etc Thread-Index: AcExvzsCnrqDqptyS8qjUCfrWHniuAAAEspA From: "Whyte, David" <david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au> To: "PJ Rattenbury" <ratten_at_uow.edu.au>, <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2001 02:02:46.0405 (UTC) FILETIME=[074D7350:01C131C1] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns1.intelenet.net id TAA16742 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net What peter said is true but on the Whole I have come across far far more friendly people then idiots. I have been invited up for cups of coffee, offered cake, beer even fresh fruit and vegetables. I chatted to fisherman, tourists, boaters etc. I find it great travelling around by kayak because, and its the case here, its still quite rare and people often come up a chat to talk about your trip. I find the kayak a bit of a conversation piece and most people are friendly and curious and often amazed that you can fit camping gear and food in a kayak. I was once paddling down a river and came across a boat the size of my house and was talking to the friendly people and they couldn't believe I had 4 days worth of food and camping gear in such a small boat. You pull into a beach in a kayak and its very easy to talk to people, even mum dad and the kids will come up for a chat. Yes there are idiots but I have meet far more nice people then idiots whilst paddling. And lucky me I am off to the Tropics for 2 weeks for some paddling and sitting under a coconut tree but will have to keep an eye out for crocs though Cheers David Australia -----Original Message----- From: PJ Rattenbury [mailto:ratten_at_uow.edu.au] behaviours are not confined to your nationality! .... Jackie is absolutely right; idiots come in all shapes, guises and disguises. Heaven forbid, even some Australians are idiots! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Thu Aug 30 20:29:50 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13332 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13327 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09225 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7V3TYp02859 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:29:34 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18425 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06139 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26063 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7V34Qp02824 Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:04:26 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18405 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:05:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> Message-Id: <200108310305.UAA18405_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] A positive note on Theouraux X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net > From david.whyte_at_amsa.gov.au > Yes there are idiots but I have meet far more nice people then idiots > whilst paddling. I think that most if not all of us probably agree with you and have had the same type experiences. At least, I haven't read anything here to indicate otherwise (Theroux doesn't count as he's not a PaddleWiser, afaik, and wouldn't know a good time if it fell in his cockpit). > And lucky me I am off to the Tropics for 2 weeks for some paddling and > sitting under a coconut tree but will have to keep an eye out for crocs > though Please tell us about it when you get back! Would love to see photos, too! Oh, and watch out for those coconuts! (*I* saw CastAway...) Cheers, Jackie p.s. I think there is something wrong with your mail header... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 04:34:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12597 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12592 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 04:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (mailout6-1.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.177]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12408 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 04:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from j7lhg01.twcny.rr.com (syr-66-24-30-13.twcny.rr.com [66.24.30.13]) by mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/Road Runner 1.12) with ESMTP id f7VBWSX25497 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830202424.009f8e90_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: bhansen2/pop-server.twcny.rr.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:29:52 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Bill Hansen <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] wetsuit for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Man's NRS "Farmer John Ultra" wetsuit size large, color black, "like new" condition (and clean!!!!). Price new $110. Asking $75. Reason fro sale - My waist has expanded and the suit won't! The NRS sizing guides are a little too generous. This suit will fit a person 5' 8" to 6' tall who weighs anywhere from 145 to 165 lbs. I don't think it would fit a person weighing much over 160. Bill Hansen 1013 Hector St ' Ithaca NY 14850 tel 607-273-2643 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 05:54:57 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06809 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06803 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheffield.cnchost.com (sheffield.concentric.net [207.155.252.12]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02375 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by sheffield.cnchost.com id IAA02007; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:54:24 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <002301c1321c$0fa79ac0$6501a8c0_at_sah350> From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>, "Bill Hansen" <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010830202424.009f8e90_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] wetsuit for sale Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:54:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Bill,, I find that for those of us who are still growing (from the waist and not vertically), the "Grizzly" style that NRS makes, works very well. Steve Holtzman Southern California ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Hansen To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net Sent: August 30, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] wetsuit for sale Man's NRS "Farmer John Ultra" wetsuit size large, color black, "like new" condition (and clean!!!!). Price new $110. Asking $75. Reason fro sale - My waist has expanded and the suit won't! The NRS sizing guides are a little too generous. This suit will fit a person 5' 8" to 6' tall who weighs anywhere from 145 to 165 lbs. I don't think it would fit a person weighing much over 160. Bill Hansen 1013 Hector St ' Ithaca NY 14850 tel 607-273-2643 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 06:07:16 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10236 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10225 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sheffield.cnchost.com (sheffield.concentric.net [207.155.252.12]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09130 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sah350 (dsl-64-34-163-1.telocity.com [64.34.163.1]) by sheffield.cnchost.com id JAA09889; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:07:08 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <003701c1321d$d71b1040$6501a8c0_at_sah350> From: "Steven A. Holtzman" <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: "PaddleWise PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Cc: "Carol Miller" <Cproaction_at_aol.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] Sant Barbara Channel Crossing Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:07:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Fellow Paddlewiser George Miller and four other kayakers, departed from Gaviota Beach Thursday morning on a 27 NM crossing of the Santa Barbara Channel to San Miguel Island. They arrived almost 8.5 hours later. They will be spending today on the Island and waiting for some other kayakers who are taking a concession boat across. Tomorrow they will be circumnavigating the Island and then on Sunday they are paddling over to Santa Rosa Island. This is an extremely adventurous trip, I have been checking the weather for the group and yesterday's forecast called for 10 - 15 knot winds with a 7' swell and 1 - 2 foot wind waves. Although this is considered "good" weather, I'm sure the paddle was not an easy one. I personally have crossed to Anacapa Island which is only 11 NM miles out and is considered one of the "Inner Islands" and it is not an easy trip. San Miguel is considered one of the "Outer Islands" and the distance, wind, current, and swell are just that much more difficult. My hat is off to George, who planned and organized this trip, as well as his four companions (three men, 1 woman) who paddled with him. Steve Holtzman Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 08:25:52 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23514 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23507 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06612 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7VFPWp04237 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:25:32 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18772 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21927 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (mailout6-0.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.125]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01546 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from j7lhg01.twcny.rr.com (syr-66-24-30-13.twcny.rr.com [66.24.30.13]) by mailout6.nyroc.rr.com (8.11.6/Road Runner 1.12) with ESMTP id f7VC5qX17154 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010831074059.009fa1a0_at_pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: bhansen2/pop-server.twcny.rr.com_at_pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:08:38 -0400 To: PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net From: Bill Hansen <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise In-Reply-To: <200108301717.KAA02759_at_ns1.intelenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Hi Jack - IMO skeg placement depends a lot on how you plan to use the boat, and on the dimensions of the skeg you install. I don't think any formula will fit all paddlers any more than one boat will fit all paddlers. For expample, if you're going to be in big water a lot of the time, place the skeg nearer the pivot point of the both (where your hips will go). For me, that would mean placing the rear edge of the skeg box about 25% of the way between the stern tip of the boat and the stem (bow) tip. That keeps the skeg in the water as much of the time as possible when you're on top of big waves - but it doesn't move the center of resistence back as aggressively as a placement further to the stern would do. Twenty five percent from the stern tip is about as far toward the pivot point as will do the job of moving the center of resistence (of the boat) toward the stern when the skeg is down. Look at a picture of a Nordkapp Jubilee in the GRO catalog and also at Bob Denton's description of his boat's skeg. That's good placement IMO - though if big water were your primary concern you could move it even further forward. Notice that Bob's (the Nordkapp's) skeg box is 16 inches long. That says something very good about the Nordkapp's skeg - it's longer than most of the "aftermarket" skegs, and that's a good thing. However, if you're not going to spend much time in big water, and if you *are* going to use the boat for expeditions which require you to carry significant gear, place the skeg as far toward the stern as you can. That maximizes storage room - though of course things like tent poles and fuel bottles can be slid in alongside the skeg at any point along the length of the boat. You'll be surprised at how far from the stern "as far back as toward the stern as you can" is. For the 18 foot boats I've built, about the furthest back I've placed the rear edge of the skeg is 30 inches from the stern tip. That does the job, and yet it keeps the skeg mostly out of the way. On my next boat, I'm going to experiment on placing it even further toward the stern. With the NB, both standard and XL, the cockpit placement is way too far forward as the plans and kit place it, and this causes noticeable weather cocking in any wind over about 7 kts. (Maybe Chris has changed the design by now - he certainly got plenty of complaints about cockpit placement). That's not just my experience, it's the experience of people like John Ferreira, Gabriel Romeu, and other who own those boats. If you haven't already placed your cockpit, you may want to give serious thought to placing the cockpit so the rear edge of it comes just about 40% of the way from the stern tip to the bow tip. That gives a much better balanced boat. There are other things about the NB (which I think is far and away Chris' best design) which tend to "get in the way" when you're in winds, especially if the boat is unloaded. The high bow and the rather deep keel just near the bow are among those. One fellow cut the sides of his NB back an inch because of this. One the boat I hoped to start last spring I planned to incorporate a little bit of rocker near the bow. The boat wouldn't be quite as fast, but it would turn with more agility and it would be more "wind neutral" (the problems with the NB bow being that in winds, the bow catches the wind and sometimes even gives you a momentary *lee* helm). Something you already know - but I'll say it anyway. If your bow and your cockpit are already built, not to worry. Just place your skeg where you want it, and load all your stuff way in the stern if you find that the boat weathercocks uncomfortably. That's what Gabriel did, and what Rob Bryan did with his personal Seguin, which had the same problem. Last but not least, consider the design of your skeg itself. I'm a person who thinks a long skeg is better than a short one. The blade of the skeg I put in my last boat is 11 inches long, and I may make the skeg on the next one 12 inches. A longer skeg allows you to place it further to the stern and still have the skeg in the water when you're on top of a wave. You almost never need to deploy it all the way, but it's there if you need it. And do laminate your skeg with at least one layer of 6 oz cloth on each side - a layer of 6 oz and one of 4 oz is better still. Good luck. I'm jealous of you, having the self-discipline to get your boat done. I have the first long (now 16 foot) sheet of plywood all scarfed together, and there it sits in the cellar of my house. If you think of it, keep me posted on how things go, and how the boat paddles. - Bill Hansen At 10:17 AM 8/30/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Try using "Wet Notes" notebooks. They will work with any pencil and most >pens. REALLY waterproof. These books (about 4" x 8") are great. Many sporting >goods and outdoor stores already have them. From ES Ritchie & Sons >- --781-826-5131 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 08:27:04 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23707 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23700 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06876 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7VFQxp04248 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:26:59 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18784 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07038 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:56:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Riversweeper_at_aol.com Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02705 for <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 05:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Riversweeper_at_aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id e.8e.1a3cb1a2 (17084) for <HudsonSweeper_at_aol.com>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e.1a3cb1a2.28c0e359_at_aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:55:53 EDT Subject: [Paddlewise] Hudson River Swim Support for MS To: HudsonSweeper_at_aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 124 Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Good morning, Project: Help guide 120 swimmers across the Hudson River from Piermont to Irvington, NY. Date/Time: September 9 at 11AM. Meet and launch paddlecraft: Irvington Park, Irvington, NY This event is the annual Swim Across the Hudson for MS support. The swimmers will not be racing. This is a fun event to help raise money for MS research. All swimmers have been sponsored. Come early for a snack...paddle across the Hudson to join with the swimmers...paddle back to Irvington and enjoy lunch and music! For more information: Contact Dennis at 914-591-8080. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 08:30:36 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24876 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24847 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08668 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7VFUSp04262 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:30:28 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18796 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13122 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.106]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15090 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([65.2.168.174]) by femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010831131641.CKXK557.femail10.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_[192.168.1.2]> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 06:16:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: guille_at_mail148.pair.com Message-Id: <a05010405b7b53b327bc7_at_[192.168.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <200108302212.PAA18233_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> References: <200108302212.PAA18233_at_qajaq.muddypuppies.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:16:40 -0400 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] The American psyche: Paul Theroux's view Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net At 3:12 PM -0700 8/30/01, Jackie Fenton wrote: > > From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > >> With apologies to Jackie, I don't see it necessarily as cultural bashing, >> and there are certianly jet skiiers out there that fit this description >> right between the eyeballs, as I can attest from experience. > >I agree with you. However, the discussion began by specifically targeting >the "American Psyche" with a psychoanalysis given by a non-expert followed >by a defensive reply with an experience in another country intended to >prove this happens elsewhere. Snip > >I surely don't dismiss that *some* jetskiiers and *some* powerboaters >have been real problems for some sea kayakers (as well as for each other... >how is the jetskiier harassing the powerboater an example of picking on someone weaker.. Snip A problem I have with analyses of the "American" psyche/attitude/morality/whatever is that those doing the analysis usually set themselves apart from those they are analyzing. I am an American and I don't flip the bird at people who look like they are having fun, I tend to wave. Any analysis of the American psyche is not complete unless it includes my reaction as well. Is my waving a form of aggression? Of course the people who act aggressively make the biggest impression. But most boaters courteously slow down as they pass my kayak (I wish they would stop doing that). The jerks are not the norm. But you encounter enough people and you will eventually meet some a-holes, statistics demand it. It is interesting that we don't really notice when people treat us nicely (accept when visiting foreign countries) and only pay attention to the few people at the nasty end of the bell curve. Nick -- Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 11:09:11 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13477 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13471 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19921 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7VI8ap04410 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:08:36 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA18869 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02647 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Ferguson.com (mailgate.ferguson.com [205.139.23.72]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26365 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mailgate.Ferguson.com (Postfix, from userid 66) id 026049B87; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vsgw.ferguson.com(205.139.23.85) via SMTP by mailgate.ferguson.com, id smtpdn62043; Fri Aug 31 13:29:24 2001 Received: from fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com ([172.16.105.14]) by vsgw.ferguson.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.12) with SMTP id M2001083113275622331 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:27:56 -0400 Received: by fei0018m002.hq.ferg.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <Q9TRSPC1>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:27:58 -0400 Message-ID: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A875_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> To: "Paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:27:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Matt Broze - or anyone - on pg. 89 of Matt's "Deep Trouble", near the bottom, there is a sentence which begins; "I pearled on one of the beastly waves....." What does "pearl" mean? Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 12:08:43 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01611 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01605 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from diablo.cisco.com (diablo.cisco.com [171.68.224.210]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29783 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JHAWKINS-W2K.cisco.com ([161.44.156.89] (may be forged)) by diablo.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id MAA25144; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010831150236.01640a70_at_diablo.cisco.com> X-Sender: jhawkins_at_diablo.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:09:50 -0400 To: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> From: Gerald Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" Cc: "Paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> In-Reply-To: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A875_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg . com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Rick, I think Matt will probably reply in person, also, but my understanding is that to pearl (or purl) is to descend bow first into a wave. Can be indicative of an overloaded bow, insufficient bow volume, crappy boat design, etc. I think (we'll see how wrong I can be) the term comes from knitting. -jerry. At 01:27 PM 8/31/2001 -0400, Rick Sylvia wrote: >Matt Broze - or anyone - on pg. 89 of Matt's "Deep Trouble", near the >bottom, there is a sentence which begins; > >"I pearled on one of the beastly waves....." > >What does "pearl" mean? > >Rick - Poquoson, VA > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 12:15:27 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04405 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04400 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05967 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ckpro.com (216-119-128-146.ipset8.wt.net [216.119.128.146]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06968; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:15:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3B8FE09A.BEA141E7_at_ckpro.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:08:12 -0500 From: "Chris L. Kuhlman" <clk_at_ckpro.com> Reply-To: clk_at_ckpro.com Organization: CK Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com>, "paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" References: <FB96ADD85ECD2D48A51AB103F4F19AD6F0A875_at_fei0018m002.hq.ferg. com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net "pearling" is a surf term for taking a nose dive. On a kayak, usually the bow dives and the stren flies up. BTW-good book. Chris Kuhlman Seabrook, TX Rick Sylvia wrote: > Matt Broze - or anyone - on pg. 89 of Matt's "Deep Trouble", near the > bottom, there is a sentence which begins; > > "I pearled on one of the beastly waves....." > > What does "pearl" mean? > > Rick - Poquoson, VA > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 14:42:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20729 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20723 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (smtp01.iprimus.net.au [210.50.30.131]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12137 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private008 ([210.50.72.175]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Sat, 1 Sep 2001 07:41:20 +1000 Reply-To: <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> To: "Paddlewise \(E-mail\)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: [Paddlewise] The Psyche etc Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 07:40:32 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c13265$90f4e9e0$8d0a10ac_at_ambri.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2001 21:41:20.0828 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC6217C0:01C13265] X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.92b X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net G'Day, My experience is similar to David Whytes's. Friends and I often get into conversations with power boaters and sometimes get invited on board for coffee and sometimes offered a beer - particularly if there is a party going on. Of course these are not boats travelling at speed, more usually lounging around. I was once asked long and detailed questions about the possibility of using a Klepper as a life boat - (I described assembly times to them but this didn't seem to put them off) and we've more than once entertained kids on such boats by rolling for them. Of course this is a long way from the very real problem of harassment. I suspect conversation can sometimes be mistaken for harassment because of the need to shout and the difficulty of complete strangers finding topics to talk about other than a flippant remark. Flippant remarks such as "That must be hard work" can be conversation openers which might eventually result in a beer or a coffee. PeterO (ever the opportunist) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 15:54:59 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12214 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12209 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web10602.mail.yahoo.com (web10602.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.166]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29641 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20010831225440.97207.qmail_at_web10602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.206.230.167] by web10602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:40 PDT Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Motorboats slowing for kayakers was:The American psyche To: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> wrote: :most boaters courteously slow down as they pass my :kayak (I wish they would stop doing that). Me too!! A motorboating buddy of mine said he frequently slows down for kayakers, and one time was even flipped off for doing so! I told him that wasn't too gratuitous of the lady who did so, and most kayakers are nicer people! Anyway, I told him he should simply maintain course and just not pass too closely to kayakers. He asked if that would put up too much wake in the case of an inexperienced kayaker. I told him if he gave them a respectably wide berth and they still couldn't handle the boat wake that they didn't belong out on the water in the first place. Shawn Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 17:41:28 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13778 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13748 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyclone.muddypuppies.com (root_at_h-64-105-135-5.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.5]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05680 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qajaq.muddypuppies.com (jackie_at_h-64-105-135-2.lsancaba.covad.net [64.105.135.2]) by cyclone.muddypuppies.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f810ebp04847 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:40:37 -0700 Received: (from jackie_at_localhost) by qajaq.muddypuppies.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19128 for paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00378 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.17]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08541 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.com ([24.20.165.27]) by femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010831235636.HXCF642.femail27.sdc1.sfba.home.com_at_home.com> for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:56:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3B90239D.BD64ABDB_at_home.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:54:06 -0700 From: Peter Rathmann <prathman_at_home.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Motorboats slowing for kayakers was:TheAmerican psyche References: <20010831225440.97207.qmail_at_web10602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Shawn Baker wrote: > > Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> wrote: > :most boaters courteously slow down as they pass my > :kayak (I wish they would stop doing that). > > Me too!! A motorboating buddy of mine said he frequently slows down > for kayakers, and one time was even flipped off for doing so! I told > him that wasn't too gratuitous of the lady who did so, and most > kayakers are nicer people! I agree that the kayaker should not have responded in that manner, but sometimes motorboats actually put out more of a wake when they slow down. A motorboat up on plane at cruising speed will frequently have a smaller wake than if it drops off plane and slows to right around its displacement hull speed. I realize they're generally trying to be courteous, but I'd rather they would maintain speed and just keep a reasonable separation when passing. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 17:46:23 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15420 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15415 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:46:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asteroid.pacifier.com ([199.2.117.154]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09687 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacifier.com (ip71.ast5.pacifier.com [66.43.10.71]) by asteroid.pacifier.com (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f810jdM19658; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3B902F1E.78D44675_at_pacifier.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:43:10 -0700 From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Motorboats slowing for kayakers was:TheAmerican psyche References: <20010831225440.97207.qmail_at_web10602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Shawn Baker wrote: > > [snip] A motorboating buddy of mine said he frequently slows down > for kayakers, and one time was even flipped off for doing so! [snip] > I told him he should simply > maintain course and just not pass too closely to kayakers. > > He asked if that would put up too much wake in the case of an > inexperienced kayaker. I told him if he gave them a respectably wide > berth and they still couldn't handle the boat wake that they didn't > belong out on the water in the first place. I surely agree with that last sentence, Shawn. Most boat wakes are entertainment, not a cause for concern. For most small powered craft, maintaining speed, if the craft is on plane, _minimizes_ wake. It is when those boaters slow down to mid-speed, and drop off plane, that their wakes are largest. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 19:32:34 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18174 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18169 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f141.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.9.141]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15285 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:31:42 -0700 Received: from 63.61.122.115 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 01 Sep 2001 02:31:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.61.122.115] From: "James Tibensky" <jimtibensky_at_hotmail.com> To: Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com, paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:31:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F141FURYSD7BsZXbLvw0000412a_at_hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Sep 2001 02:31:42.0807 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CB11E70:01C1328E] Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Im my youth I was told that it came from the term "pearl diving" as in diving to the bottom looking for pearls. Jim Tibensky >From: Rick Sylvia <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferginc.com> >To: "Paddlewise (E-mail)" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> >Subject: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" >Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:27:57 -0400 > >Matt Broze - or anyone - on pg. 89 of Matt's "Deep Trouble", near the >bottom, there is a sentence which begins; > >"I pearled on one of the beastly waves....." > >What does "pearl" mean? > >Rick - Poquoson, VA > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** >From owner-paddlewise Fri Aug 31 23:46:20 2001 Received: (from majordom_at_localhost) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03820 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns.intelenet.net (mailhost.intelenet.net [207.38.45.138]) by ns1.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03749 Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emerald.oz.net (emerald2.oz.net [216.39.128.2]) by ns.intelenet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18804 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oemcomputer (sense-sea-focal-dynamic-9-45.oz.net [216.39.143.45]) by emerald.oz.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23107 for <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net>; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:41:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Pearl" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 23:53:37 -0700 Message-ID: <LPBBIFJPIBOCGNKKPCCEOEKNCGAA.mkayaks_at_oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Sender: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Precedence: list X-Listname: Paddlewise Mailing List X-Subscription-Info: paddlewise-request_at_paddlewise.net Jerry wrote: >>>>>>I think Matt will probably reply in person, also, but my understanding is that to pearl (or purl) is to descend bow first into a wave. Can be indicative of an overloaded bow, insufficient bow volume, crappy boat design, etc. I think (we'll see how wrong I can be) the term comes from knitting.<<<<<<< I thought you were doing real good until you came to the knitting part. I don't really know where the term "pearl" comes from but I think it came from surfing and I always assumed it referred to the bow of the board "diving for pearls". Almost any kayak will "pearl" if the waves get steep enough and are the right size. In ocean surf that is dumping it is very hard not to pearl the bow if you are coming straight into the beach. I was just reading Jon Turk's article in the new Sea Kayaker magazine and he describes not only pearling in a shore break but sticking the kayaks nose (and then his own) into the sand as well. He didn't say if there was any oysters down there but maybe he was too busy dealing with the pain of almost breaking his neck to notice. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************Received on Wed Aug 01 2001 - 00:15:20 PDT
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