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From: <HTERVORT_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RFI Another rescue book + rescue question
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:21:10 EDT
In a message dated 10/1/01 4:39:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca writes:

> 
>  Has anybody checked it (John Lull's new book) out and could give us a 
first subjective 
>  opinion?
>  
>  I bought Sea Kayak Rescue: The Definitive Guide to Modern 
>  Reentry and Recovery Techniques by Roger Schumann and Jan 
>  Shriner a couple of months ago, after a very positive review posted 
>  on paddlewise.  I like it a lot and highly recommend it.
>  Now, barely 5 month later there is another book entirely dedicated 
>  to this topic.  Redundancy or additional wisdom? 


Ulli and all,

If one is looking for very concise and clear explanations of re-entries and 
rescues, I think that Roger and Jan's book is superior by far in that area.  
I'd expected more from John, but I feel he was too verbose in some areas, 
while not adequately explaining some very basic things like how to perform a 
controlled wet exit.

I have not finished John's book yet, and I am looking forward to the sections 
on rough water paddling.  I hope that will make the book worth buying.

AND, just when you thought it was safe to place your order --

Wayne Horodowich has released his very excellent pair of videos on re-entries 
and rescues.  This is another must-have.  Superbly done.  Great videography 
shows above and below-water shots of the demonstrations.  www.useakayak.org


And while I'm notalurking --

All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T Rescue 
with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the rescuer 
by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift.  I personally have 
described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable 
variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to 
perform the bow lift.  But I really dislike it for general-use for a few 
reasons.

The countdown of the four most important reasons I see to avoid this rescue 
variation:

4.  The bow of the boat can be difficult to handle in rough seas and less 
stabilizing for the rescuer.
3.  It is easier for the swimmer to lose contact with his boat in high seas 
than if he were holding onto the deck lines of the rescuer's boat.
2.  If in cold water, it requires the swimmer to move around in the water 
more than is prudent for prevention of hypothermia.
1.  It puts the swimmer on the rudder which can easily cut, stab and entrap 
the swimmer.

With regard to number 4:  In Wayne's video, he has his wife use this 
variation to rescue him in flat water.  It is the first time she has tried 
the rescue (which is a good touch for the vid since it demonstrates that a 
neophyte can rescue you, provided you give them proper verbal directions).  
When (big) Wayne pushes down on the stern, the bow squirts up out of her 
control and at one point you hear the bow "bonk" the helmet she is wearing.  
How well could she have controlled the bow in rough seas if this is the 
result in flat water?

With regard to number 1:  I have a cut which is just healing, which came from 
the rudder of a boat when I was attempting a "fancy flip" to drain the water 
during a solo reentry.  As I pushed down on the stern and rolled the boat, 
the rudder got me -- just exactly like I always tell my students it will.  
Again, this was in flat water.

I'd love to hear some discussion of this.  I know that such esteemed 
colleagues don't adopt a method without long consideration, but I don't 
understand the appeal of this method.  Obviously, most will say that it makes 
the lift easier, but I've only had a handful of students in 9 years of 
teaching re-entries that have not been able to lift the boat.  And for those, 
there are other methods of lifting (many of which have appeared in this 
forum) which will work for them in flat seas (although I don't believe most 
of those methods are easily  performed by new paddlers).  But there is still 
the right, reenter, and pump method, which works for everyone in calm or 
rougher waters.

So, what are the real reasons why I should learn to love this variation??


Inquiring minds. . .

Harold  

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From: Bob Volin <bobvolin_at_optonline.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 22:06:41 -0400
Folks I paddle with prefer a variation of the T-rescue that has the swimmer
flipping the capsized boat upright, then moving along his/her boat's
decklines to the rescuer's boat, holding onto that boat's decklines towards
the bow.

Having the swimmer flip the boat makes it easier for the rescuer to grab the
bow (no need for the rescuer to compromise stability while reaching under
the water for the capsized bow).  Having the swimmer hold on to decklines at
the rescuer's bow keeps the swimmer where the rescuer can monitor the
swimmer's condition, and facilitates communication.

If the swimmer can't flip the boat, then the rescuer can maneuver the boats
side-to-side, grab the coaming and flip.  The coaming won't be as low in the
water, so there will be less compromise to stability.  Then the rescuer can
manipulate the swimmer's boat to the T position to empty the boat, and
proceed as usual.


>
> And while I'm notalurking --
>
> All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T
Rescue
> with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the
rescuer
> by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift.  I personally have
> described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable
> variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to
> perform the bow lift.  But I really dislike it for general-use for a few
> reasons.



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From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 08:37:40 -0400
At 10:06 PM 10/3/01 -0400, Bob Volin wrote:
>Folks I paddle with prefer a variation of the T-rescue that has the swimmer
>flipping the capsized boat upright, then moving along his/her boat's
>decklines to the rescuer's boat, holding onto that boat's decklines towards
>the bow.
>
>Having the swimmer flip the boat makes it easier for the rescuer to grab the
>bow (no need for the rescuer to compromise stability while reaching under
>the water for the capsized bow).  Having the swimmer hold on to decklines at
>the rescuer's bow keeps the swimmer where the rescuer can monitor the
>swimmer's condition, and facilitates communication.

Nigel Dennis showed us a variation on this at the AKT symposium last 
year.  After the swimmer has flipped the boat upright they are directed to 
the other side of the rescuers boat (holding onto the decklines along the 
way) just in front of the cockpit of the rescuers boat.  The rescuer pulls 
the bow of the boat until the swimmer can reach the bow toggle.  The 
swimmer then puts both feet on the side of the rescuers boat and just leans 
back, pulling the boat across the deck.  The rescuers empties the water, 
flips it back over, and positions the boats bow to stern.  The rescuer 
grabs the cockpit of the boat and leans away, lowering the rescue boats 
gunwale toward the swimmer.  The swimmer then climbs across the rescue boat 
and reenters boat in the same manner as a standard t-rescue.


>If the swimmer can't flip the boat, then the rescuer can maneuver the boats
>side-to-side, grab the coaming and flip.  The coaming won't be as low in the
>water, so there will be less compromise to stability.  Then the rescuer can
>manipulate the swimmer's boat to the T position to empty the boat, and
>proceed as usual.
>
>
> >
> > And while I'm notalurking --
> >
> > All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T
>Rescue
> > with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the
>rescuer
> > by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift.  I personally have
> > described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable
> > variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to
> > perform the bow lift.  But I really dislike it for general-use for a few
> > reasons.
>
>
>
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From: <SNStone_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:49:50 EDT
Nigel's technique provides assitance to a rescuer who does not have a lot of upper body strength. It is important that person being rescued pulls the boat over the deck and does not, repeat does not, pull down on the boat - which could result in serious damage to the boat.

BTW, I paddle with Bob and last weekend we did several rough water rescues in New York Harbor using the technique he described. With boats undulating with the waves, getting the boat flipped righside up by the "victim" is a big help. 

sid
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From: Dennis, Becky & Natalie <arebecca1_at_qwest.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:00:28 -0500
Dennis writes:  I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several times with no difficulties.  It's the one someone on PW offered where the rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now
upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped boat.  While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright and almost instantly emptied.  With a partner in rough water this summer, we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds,
from the beginning of the emptying maneuver.  I highly recommend this for folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped boat's toggle.



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From: Rafael Mier Maza <sildriel_at_ciateq.mx>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:49:32 -0500
Hi Dennis,

This is really something new to me. It sounds great.

Does the rescuer roll back up using the kayak tip?.  IŽll try it the next 
time I have a chance.

Thanks

Rafael.

At 04:00 p.m. 04/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Dennis writes:  I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within 
>the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several 
>times with no difficulties.  It's the one someone on PW offered where the 
>rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now
>upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped 
>boat.  While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright 
>and almost instantly emptied.  With a partner in rough water this summer, 
>we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds,
>from the beginning of the emptying maneuver.  I highly recommend this for 
>folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped 
>boat's toggle.
>
>
>
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>here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
>responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
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From: Rafael Mier Maza <sildriel_at_ciateq.mx>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] rescue question
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:59:40 -0500
I like that very much.

Thinking about it it occurs that a very quick way to be back up in the boat 
is reentry and eskimo rescue. The swimmer dives and reenters the boat while 
grabbing or watching the rescuers bow tip. Then he rolls up in seconds, 
using the rescuer bow as support and then the rescuer holds the swamped 
boat while the rescued pumps water out. Should put him out of the water 
very quickly, and if the kayak has stayed upside down, should not have too 
much water.

Creativity swells with so many good ideas.

Rafael.

At 04:00 p.m. 04/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Dennis writes:  I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within 
>the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several 
>times with no difficulties.  It's the one someone on PW offered where the 
>rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now
>upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped 
>boat.  While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright 
>and almost instantly emptied.  With a partner in rough water this summer, 
>we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds,
>from the beginning of the emptying maneuver.  I highly recommend this for 
>folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped 
>boat's toggle.
>
>
>
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>here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
>responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
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