In a message dated 10/1/01 4:39:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, uhoeger_at_is.dal.ca writes: > > Has anybody checked it (John Lull's new book) out and could give us a first subjective > opinion? > > I bought Sea Kayak Rescue: The Definitive Guide to Modern > Reentry and Recovery Techniques by Roger Schumann and Jan > Shriner a couple of months ago, after a very positive review posted > on paddlewise. I like it a lot and highly recommend it. > Now, barely 5 month later there is another book entirely dedicated > to this topic. Redundancy or additional wisdom? Ulli and all, If one is looking for very concise and clear explanations of re-entries and rescues, I think that Roger and Jan's book is superior by far in that area. I'd expected more from John, but I feel he was too verbose in some areas, while not adequately explaining some very basic things like how to perform a controlled wet exit. I have not finished John's book yet, and I am looking forward to the sections on rough water paddling. I hope that will make the book worth buying. AND, just when you thought it was safe to place your order -- Wayne Horodowich has released his very excellent pair of videos on re-entries and rescues. This is another must-have. Superbly done. Great videography shows above and below-water shots of the demonstrations. www.useakayak.org And while I'm notalurking -- All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T Rescue with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the rescuer by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift. I personally have described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to perform the bow lift. But I really dislike it for general-use for a few reasons. The countdown of the four most important reasons I see to avoid this rescue variation: 4. The bow of the boat can be difficult to handle in rough seas and less stabilizing for the rescuer. 3. It is easier for the swimmer to lose contact with his boat in high seas than if he were holding onto the deck lines of the rescuer's boat. 2. If in cold water, it requires the swimmer to move around in the water more than is prudent for prevention of hypothermia. 1. It puts the swimmer on the rudder which can easily cut, stab and entrap the swimmer. With regard to number 4: In Wayne's video, he has his wife use this variation to rescue him in flat water. It is the first time she has tried the rescue (which is a good touch for the vid since it demonstrates that a neophyte can rescue you, provided you give them proper verbal directions). When (big) Wayne pushes down on the stern, the bow squirts up out of her control and at one point you hear the bow "bonk" the helmet she is wearing. How well could she have controlled the bow in rough seas if this is the result in flat water? With regard to number 1: I have a cut which is just healing, which came from the rudder of a boat when I was attempting a "fancy flip" to drain the water during a solo reentry. As I pushed down on the stern and rolled the boat, the rudder got me -- just exactly like I always tell my students it will. Again, this was in flat water. I'd love to hear some discussion of this. I know that such esteemed colleagues don't adopt a method without long consideration, but I don't understand the appeal of this method. Obviously, most will say that it makes the lift easier, but I've only had a handful of students in 9 years of teaching re-entries that have not been able to lift the boat. And for those, there are other methods of lifting (many of which have appeared in this forum) which will work for them in flat seas (although I don't believe most of those methods are easily performed by new paddlers). But there is still the right, reenter, and pump method, which works for everyone in calm or rougher waters. So, what are the real reasons why I should learn to love this variation?? Inquiring minds. . . Harold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Folks I paddle with prefer a variation of the T-rescue that has the swimmer flipping the capsized boat upright, then moving along his/her boat's decklines to the rescuer's boat, holding onto that boat's decklines towards the bow. Having the swimmer flip the boat makes it easier for the rescuer to grab the bow (no need for the rescuer to compromise stability while reaching under the water for the capsized bow). Having the swimmer hold on to decklines at the rescuer's bow keeps the swimmer where the rescuer can monitor the swimmer's condition, and facilitates communication. If the swimmer can't flip the boat, then the rescuer can maneuver the boats side-to-side, grab the coaming and flip. The coaming won't be as low in the water, so there will be less compromise to stability. Then the rescuer can manipulate the swimmer's boat to the T position to empty the boat, and proceed as usual. > > And while I'm notalurking -- > > All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T Rescue > with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the rescuer > by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift. I personally have > described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable > variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to > perform the bow lift. But I really dislike it for general-use for a few > reasons. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:06 PM 10/3/01 -0400, Bob Volin wrote: >Folks I paddle with prefer a variation of the T-rescue that has the swimmer >flipping the capsized boat upright, then moving along his/her boat's >decklines to the rescuer's boat, holding onto that boat's decklines towards >the bow. > >Having the swimmer flip the boat makes it easier for the rescuer to grab the >bow (no need for the rescuer to compromise stability while reaching under >the water for the capsized bow). Having the swimmer hold on to decklines at >the rescuer's bow keeps the swimmer where the rescuer can monitor the >swimmer's condition, and facilitates communication. Nigel Dennis showed us a variation on this at the AKT symposium last year. After the swimmer has flipped the boat upright they are directed to the other side of the rescuers boat (holding onto the decklines along the way) just in front of the cockpit of the rescuers boat. The rescuer pulls the bow of the boat until the swimmer can reach the bow toggle. The swimmer then puts both feet on the side of the rescuers boat and just leans back, pulling the boat across the deck. The rescuers empties the water, flips it back over, and positions the boats bow to stern. The rescuer grabs the cockpit of the boat and leans away, lowering the rescue boats gunwale toward the swimmer. The swimmer then climbs across the rescue boat and reenters boat in the same manner as a standard t-rescue. >If the swimmer can't flip the boat, then the rescuer can maneuver the boats >side-to-side, grab the coaming and flip. The coaming won't be as low in the >water, so there will be less compromise to stability. Then the rescuer can >manipulate the swimmer's boat to the T position to empty the boat, and >proceed as usual. > > > > > > And while I'm notalurking -- > > > > All of the above sources, along with the ACA I understand, teach the T >Rescue > > with the swimmer going to the stern of their boat and assisting the >rescuer > > by pushing down on the stern during the boat lift. I personally have > > described this method to my students for some years as a less-desirable > > variation to only be used when the rescuer is weak or otherwise unable to > > perform the bow lift. But I really dislike it for general-use for a few > > reasons. > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nigel's technique provides assitance to a rescuer who does not have a lot of upper body strength. It is important that person being rescued pulls the boat over the deck and does not, repeat does not, pull down on the boat - which could result in serious damage to the boat. BTW, I paddle with Bob and last weekend we did several rough water rescues in New York Harbor using the technique he described. With boats undulating with the waves, getting the boat flipped righside up by the "victim" is a big help. sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dennis writes: I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several times with no difficulties. It's the one someone on PW offered where the rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped boat. While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright and almost instantly emptied. With a partner in rough water this summer, we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds, from the beginning of the emptying maneuver. I highly recommend this for folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped boat's toggle. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dennis, This is really something new to me. It sounds great. Does the rescuer roll back up using the kayak tip?. IŽll try it the next time I have a chance. Thanks Rafael. At 04:00 p.m. 04/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >Dennis writes: I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within >the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several >times with no difficulties. It's the one someone on PW offered where the >rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now >upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped >boat. While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright >and almost instantly emptied. With a partner in rough water this summer, >we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds, >from the beginning of the emptying maneuver. I highly recommend this for >folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped >boat's toggle. > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I like that very much. Thinking about it it occurs that a very quick way to be back up in the boat is reentry and eskimo rescue. The swimmer dives and reenters the boat while grabbing or watching the rescuers bow tip. Then he rolls up in seconds, using the rescuer bow as support and then the rescuer holds the swamped boat while the rescued pumps water out. Should put him out of the water very quickly, and if the kayak has stayed upside down, should not have too much water. Creativity swells with so many good ideas. Rafael. At 04:00 p.m. 04/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >Dennis writes: I discovered in these very pages (are these pages?) within >the last six months the ultimate T rescue, which I have practiced several >times with no difficulties. It's the one someone on PW offered where the >rescuer grabs the toggle of the swamped boat (now >upright) with the off-side hand and simply rolls away from the swamped >boat. While leaning into the water in this way, the boat is put upright >and almost instantly emptied. With a partner in rough water this summer, >we got the "victim" back in the boat in about 20 seconds, >from the beginning of the emptying maneuver. I highly recommend this for >folks not put off by flopping into the water while holding the swamped >boat's toggle. > > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed >here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire >responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. >Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net >Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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