Mike wrote: >No discredit to the great folks at Mariner, but I'm a tad amazed that >this seems to be a unique feature. Many kayaks do this, including my >Solstice GTH, the Swift North Sea (JW design), Pintail and many more. I haven't paddled any of those designs...other than the CD Storm/Squall which are similar to the GTH, but I didn't notice exceptional carving. I'll have to try 'em again!! I too use that factor as a means to evaluate different designs. Rafael wrote: >I think the phenomenon is general and not particular for any specific >type of hull shape. I don't think it's that general. As everyone has pointed out, it's not as uncommon as I implied in my earlier post, but it's far from being a "standard" feature of every design. Steve wrote: >That is a neat effect, but it's not limited to Mariners. I paddle my >Dagger Meridien through twisting marsh creeks by paddling straight >ahead and lifting my knees to turn. Works a treat. I find it helps to >look ahead through the turn, but that may be superstitious ;) First, I'm not a Mariner owner, but the Mariners carve a turn better than any boat I've ever paddled. A lot of boats do it to some degree, but the Mariner does it very, very well. >What do you mean about the asymmetric shape of the hull? Almost every >kayak I've ever seen is asymmetric front-to-back and top-to-bottom. Are >Mariners asymmetric side-to-side? *grin* I hypothesized it was due to the radical Swedeform with hard chines aft only. Pure guess on my part. A lot of boats are more-or-less asymmetric front-to-back, but not THAT MUCH! Shawn Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I would really have to agree with Shawn here. To at least get a feeling for how different these boats are, you should go to http://www.marinerkayaks.com/ and look at the pictures for the Mariner XL and the Elan. These photos will give you a look at the bottoms of the boats, but they still don't do them justice. Unfortunately they don't make their boat's in *lard ass* size otherwise I would have one, but my girlfriend has an Elan and it is just incredible how she can control that boat. I've been able to get every boat I've tried to carve turns to some extent, and I've never found a "neutral" boat that would fit me, but nothing behaves like the Broze's designs. When slaloming through pilings I need to make some fairly hard sweeps and bow rudders to get through where she just coasts along and lifts one knee then the other. If you think I'm jealous that my girlfriend's boat is WAY better than mine, you're right! And by the way, before anyone makes any generalizations about the vendors on this list they should try shopping at some of their stores. When I was living down in portland I found Alder Creek's service to be the best of any kayak store I'd been to. What more can you say about a dealer who is willing to exchange a paddle for a list member who didn't even buy it from them. And as for Mariner, how many dealers will talk you out of buying something because you don't really need it? Or would be willing to send you to another shop to make sure you get exactly what you are looking for. I personally consider their opinions for what they are, the opinion of someone with far more experience than I will probably ever have. Dave Shawn Baker writes: > > First, I'm not a Mariner owner, but the Mariners carve a turn better > than any boat I've ever paddled. A lot of boats do it to some degree, > but the Mariner does it very, very well. > >>What do you mean about the asymmetric shape of the hull? Almost every >>kayak I've ever seen is asymmetric front-to-back and top-to-bottom. > Are >>Mariners asymmetric side-to-side? > > *grin* I hypothesized it was due to the radical Swedeform with hard > chines aft only. Pure guess on my part. A lot of boats are > more-or-less asymmetric front-to-back, but not THAT MUCH! > > Shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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