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From: John Gibbs <johngibbs_at_charter.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle flutter
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:51:04 -0500
Here are the results of a couple hours' experimentation with the Eddyline
Mid Swift paddle and its flutter, taking into account some suggestions made
here.

* Varied the power of the stroke from very light to aggressive: little
difference. Actually, with a strong stroke sometimes the flutter diminished,
but this was probably because of the strong grip I tended to exert. I
controlled for this variable by maintaining a looser grip, and the flutter
remained fairly constant.

* Angled the top of the paddle blade back a degree or two, remembering Nick
Shade's description of the angle providing lift, but fogetting he said to
tilt the top back (a forward tilt would seem to me to be pulling the boat
down rather than providing lift ??). Anyway, the forward tilt certainly
seemed inefficient and contrary to the way the blade wanted to pull, as Mike
McNally mentioned. (Mike, which way did you twist the blade to control
flutter?)

* Inserted the paddle as vertically as possible while moving at very slow
speed and allowed time for any trapped air to surface, then stroked: no
change in flutter.

I doubt it would be considered a manufacturing defect, because the effect is
entirely symmetrical, and right and left blades for this paddle have got to
be separate molds.

Joe Pylka mentioned flutter is greater when the shaft extends well into the
length of the blade. This is the case with the Swift; the shaft protrudes
from the back of the blade by a thickness of about 2.5 cm+ at the near end
of the blade down to 1 cm, ending only about an inch from the far edge of
the blade. I don't know how much this varies among paddles.

I wonder if I'm facing a traceoff between flutter and a heavier paddle. I
don't know if this is a performance drag, but it might be worth a few oz. of
extra weight over the approx. 29 oz of the Swift to eliminate this
distraction. I'm minded to return the paddle, if PacWave (www.pacwave.net)
will allow it, and try something else. Experimenting with equipment is part
of the pleasure, especially when I get such in-depth commentary from my
experienced colleagues here.




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From: Mike McNally <mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle flutter
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 01:18:36 -0600
On Sun 02 Dec 2001, John Gibbs wrote:

> McNally mentioned. (Mike, which way did you twist the blade to control
> flutter?)


I don't recall.  And I didn't mean to say that tilting forward was bad
(if done in moderation to reduce flutter) it just seemed an appropriate
segway to wing paddles.  Theoretically it would be better to reduce
flutter by tilting the top of the blade/shaft back so as to add lift
rather than pulling the boat into the water, but it could have been the
other rotation that worked better.  i

And when using a light grip a little
flutter is probably acceptable.  That's where the only real test of the
paddle is a comparison.  'Cause all paddles flutter (I presume from what
others here have said).  

-- 

Mike McNally		mmcnally3_at_prodigy.net

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From: Nick Schade <schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle flutter
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:46:51 -0500
>
>* Angled the top of the paddle blade back a degree or two, remembering Nick
>Shade's description of the angle providing lift, but fogetting he said to
>tilt the top back (a forward tilt would seem to me to be pulling the boat
>down rather than providing lift ??). Anyway, the forward tilt certainly
>seemed inefficient and contrary to the way the blade wanted to pull, as Mike
>McNally mentioned. (Mike, which way did you twist the blade to control
>flutter?)

It may seem contrary to good practice to tilt the top of the blade 
forward (towards the bow), but this actually makes it work more like 
a wing paddle. With a forward tilt, the blade will tend to slice deep 
and cleanly as you place it into the water. Then as the stroke 
progresses, the top edge becomes the leading edge as the blade moves 
slightly away from the boat. The result is the lift power is parallel 
to the direction you are trying to move and it does not pull the boat 
down much. There is a decent description of wing paddle technique at 
http://www.sfdj.com/fall/freedive/technique.html and at 
http://www.bcu.org.uk/marathon/kayak_tech.htm. The wing paddle tends 
to do this technique some what naturally. You can find similarities 
in the Greenland technique described at 
http://www.jacksonville.net/~dldecker/fskaGreenland.htm

The technique feels odd at first because the grip on the water at the 
beginning of the stroke is slippery with the blade tending to dive. 
But with a little torso rotation the power phase is very natural, 
easy and powerful. The forward tilt reduces the ventilation at the 
beginning of the stroke because the paddle slices in and it reduces 
flutter because the vortex is force to stay on one edge. And the 
efficiency of the stroke is increased because you end up pulling 
against a larger mass of water.
-- 
Nick Schade
Guillemot Kayaks
824 Thompson St
Glastonbury, CT 06033
(860) 659-8847
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