...I would say there are several rational arguments (noting that nothing is fool proof or necessarily unquestionably better) 1. Whether a paddle leash is tethered to the boat or wrist --after capsize the first task is to get ahold of the boat. I don't think either tethering location has more or less of an advantage here. In either case if you have the boat-- you have your paddle. Comment: One advantage of tethering the paddle to the boat, and not the wrist, is that the paddle acts a little as a sea anchor to slow the boat's drifting. I haven't enough experience of this to judge whether it is significant, or applies in higher winds. Last Thursday, practising various rescues, I jumped into the water and let the boat and paddle drift shorewards in a wind varying between 10 - 15 knots. While I didn't let the boat get too far away, it didn't get away fast enough to prevent catching it by swimming. Now to try higher winds, always onshore! Anyone else got experience of chasing drifting boats? 2. If you do loose your boat (bad ,bad) then having your paddle (strapped to your wrist) might allow you to paddle-swim to catch your boat if it is only a short distance away. With a PFD on paddle swimming is a good way to go for short distances. Or the paddle can be easily discarded if need be. Comment: Tried a bit of paddle swimming the other day, too. Backstroke,with a feathered paddle, seems easiest, but pretty energetic. I'd rather swim without the paddle. I intend to try a bit more of this, and try to swim towing the paddle some way. 3. Doing a wet re-entry/rescue I like not having the paddle tied to the boat- it seems to give me more manuvering room to get the paddle float on and into position for climbing back into the boat. And I cannot imagine any but the wildest scenario where a wrist telthered paddle could entangle the kayaker? Comment: So why not use the wrist paddle leash in the surf? Does anyone have any actual experience of a tether being a lethal threat in surf? I recall Matt Broze's example of a leg wrapped to a boat in surf, but that was presumably with a boat to paddle tether. Whatever threat exists here has to be balanced against a situation say of landing through surf breaking a long way from shore, and losing the paddle. I want to be in the boat with the paddle then, and not facing a long swim in rip country if the paddle's lost. Easy to answer hang on to your paddle at all times, but surf power can deal with that. Does anyone have any examples of serious problems caused by losing a paddle in surf? 4. When rolling I guess I did not like all the lines (paddle tethered to the bungies) dangling around when trying to set up for the roll- I find a paddle tethered to my wrist much less cumbersome in this situation and if it becomes a problem the tether is very easily slipped off the wrist. Comment: Agree fully. An untethered, or wrist tethered, paddle is definitely more free and easy than a boat tethered one. It certainly would not be a good thing in white water nor surf. Comment: Again, just thinking aloud, is the surf entanglement problem exaggerated? Or is it such a potentially fatal possibility that "never tether in the surf" is an absolute rule? And if one tethers outside surf situations, what of breaking waves at sea, or surprise bombies? If tangle/strangle danger is everywhere, don't leash anywhere and just make sure the spare is ready for action? Peter Treby, Melbourne, Australia *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> ...I would say there are several rational arguments > (noting that nothing is fool proof or necessarily unquestionably better) > 1. Whether a paddle leash is tethered to the boat or wrist --after capsize > the first task is to get ahold of the boat. I don't think either tethering > location has more or less of an advantage here. In either case if you have > the boat-- you have your paddle. With the paddle tethered to the boat, if you hang onto your paddle, which is in your hands already, then you also hang onto your boat. If the paddle is tethered to your wrist, then when you wet exit you have to then grab your boat. If for some reason you do not, and there is a significant wind or current moving the boat along, then your screwed! 2. If you do loose your boat (bad ,bad) then having your paddle (strapped> > to your > wrist) might allow you to paddle-swim to catch your boat if it is > only > a short distance away. With the paddle tethered to the boat, if you hang onto your paddle, which is in your hands already, then you will not lose your boat, period! No need for paddle swimming. 3. Doing a wet re-entry/rescue I like not having the paddle tied to the > > boat- > it seems to give me more manuvering room to get the paddle float on and > into position for climbing back into the boat. And I cannot imagine any > but > the wildest scenario where a wrist telthered paddle could entangle the > kayaker? True! The wrist tether may have an advantage in this scenario. However, only if performing the paddle float rescue from the proper side of the boat. If the paddle was tethered to my left wrist, then I do not think I could properly perform a paddle float rescue on the starboard side of my kayak without first disconnecting the tether. > Comment: So why not use the wrist paddle leash in the surf? Does anyone, > other than Matt Broze's example of a leg wrapped to a boat in surf, > presumably with a boat to paddle tether, have any actual experience of a > tether being a lethal threat in surf? Whatever threat exists here has to be > balanced against a situation say of landing through surf breaking a long > way > from shore, and losing the paddle. I want to be in the boat with the paddle > then, and not facing a long swim if the paddle's lost. Easy to answer hang > on to your paddle at all times, but surf power can deal with that. Does > anyone have any examples of problems caused by losing a paddle in surf? I do have what most people would probably consider to be considerable experience with a kayak in the surf. I have been in some pretty big stuff too. I have broken boats and paddles in the surf. But I have never lost my paddle! Maybe I've been lucky. But I just have not found it to be all that difficult to hang onto my paddle. As far as the leash goes, I'm sure people on this list know that I am not real big on always wearing a PFD. But I would NEVER go through the surf with my paddle tied to my boat. I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid! > 4. When rolling I guess I did not like all the lines (paddle tethered to the > bungies) dangling around when trying to set up for the roll- I find a > paddle > tethered to my wrist much less cumbersome in this situation and if it > becomes a problem the tether is very easily slipped off the wrist. > Comment: Agree fully. An untethered, or wrist tethered, paddle is > definitely more free and easy than a boat tethered one. I think in theory this is probably true, but I have not found the paddle to boat tether to restrict my rolling at all. However, I will concede that it probably has greater potential for entanglement then does the wrist tether. > FWIW, did the Greenlanders and other > early kayakers ever use tethers? Probably not. But then they didn't use PFD's either! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have always wondered about the excerpt from this thread quoted below. I've been dumped in surf a number of times, and it is not unusual to become immediately separated from the boat while I discover my paddle to be floating near me. Is this just coincidence or do paddles float so much like humans that there is a good chance you will find yourself near your paddle when you get dumped? Usually when I surf under these conditions the kayak is empty. Perhaps a fully laden boat would also tend to float near the dumpee? <snip> "I do have what most people would probably consider to be considerable experience with a kayak in the surf. I have been in some pretty big stuff too. I have broken boats and paddles in the surf. But I have never lost my paddle! Maybe I've been lucky. But I just have not found it to be all that difficult to hang onto my paddle." Tom Joyce ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Loose boats, paddles and other equipment are surf hazards. Having a "bombproof" roll while playing in or passing through the surf is not only more fun but safer. I don't want to be anywhere near a "fully laden" kayak in the surf, especially a swamped one. Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce, Thomas F." <TJoyce_at_bellboyd.com> To: <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:08 PM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Paddle leashes > I've been dumped in surf a number of times, and it is not unusual to become immediately separated from the boat while I discover my paddle to be floating near me. Is this just coincidence or do paddles float so much like humans that there is a good chance you will find yourself near your paddle when you get dumped? Usually when I surf under these conditions the kayak is empty. Perhaps a fully laden boat would also tend to float near the dumpee? snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thank you Peter and Scott, for giving most of the answers I wanted to in response to wrf_at_cisunix.unh.edu's six points defending paddle to wrist tethers. Without repeating what they said I'd like to add a few more points. >>>>>2. If you do loose your boat (bad ,bad) then having your paddle (strapped to your wrist) might allow you to paddle-swim to catch your boat if it is only a short distance away. With a PFD on paddle swimming is a good way to go for short distances. Or the paddle can be easily discarded if need be.<<<<<<< I've never had any trouble hanging on to an unfeathered paddle when upside down in the surf (if I let go of it with one hand so it is free to pivot around and spill the forces of the blades). I don't have experience with an unfeathered paddle in this situation but I suspect it might be harder to hang onto because the same force might act on both blades at once pulling the paddle straight away from me with considerable force. Since the kayak will blow away so much faster than the paddle if you do loose it in strong winds, it is imperative that you don't waste even a second in beginning to try to swim it down before it gets even further away from you. You can sprint for a short distance but not a long one. Shedding the paddle leash or even getting organized to swim using the paddle will loose you a few seconds at this critical time. I don't see the paddle attached to the kayak as being much of an anchor, in this strong wind situation (as some have suggested), but if it is attached to the kayak and you let go of both of them at least it is dangling a several feet behind the kayak and will more likely still be within your reach when you've just surfaced. If the paddle/wrist leash is easy to discard just how secure is it if being thrashed about in the surf. If it is securely fastened to the wrist and the paddle is unfeathered, how securely fastened is your hand to your forearm or your arm to your torso. I'd prefer to have the ability to let go instantly if faced with an overwhelming force to the paddle. As a skier I used to hate those so-called "safety" straps that attached at a single point from boot to ski. Six stitches in my knee, hard blows to my head and cuts in my scalp along with a lot of leg bruises quickly soured me on the concept. While there is probably a lot less danger tethering ones paddle to ones wrist in surf, loosing the paddle has not been a problem for me so I'm not going to take that risk for what appear to be very minor benefits. In bigger surf I don't want to be anywhere near the kayak (especially up or down wave from it) that I've bailed out of unless I'm confident I can reenter and roll between breakers or wrap myself firmly around the kayak (and am wearing a helmet as well) before the next breaker hits. >>>>>3. Doing a wet re-entry/rescue I like not having the paddle tied to the boat- it seems to give me more manuvering room to get the paddle float on and into position for climbing back into the boat. And I cannot imagine any but the wildest scenario where a wrist telthered paddle could entangle the kayaker?<<<<<<< With a shock cord tether it is often possible to set up the paddle float rescue without untethering the paddle. Another option is to move the hook on the end boat end of the tether temporarily to near the deck lines holding the outriggered paddle down. >>>>>>4. When rolling I guess I did not like all the lines (paddle tethered to the bungies) dangling around when trying to set up for the roll- I find a paddle tethered to my wrist much less cumbersome in this situation and if it becomes a problem the tether is very easily slipped off the wrist.<<<<<, I've purposefully tried many times to get the paddle to boat tether to wrap around my neck during rolling practice and could not succeed in doing it even with a 5 foot long parachute cord for a tether. 2.5 feet of shock cord should make this virtually impossible and will still stretch enough to allow you to do any brace or roll I can imagine without you realizing you've stretched the cord in doing so. >>>>>>>5. If you do become separated from your boat you still have your paddle and it may be of some help to others in locating you (i.e. waving it) as you are more visible with your paddle in the air. <<<<<<< This is certainly a benefit of retaining the paddle and I have used it myself to save a long swim. Maybe you could tether the paddle to the boat and your wrist to the paddle. Don't try this in surf though because a kayak is way more likely (than the paddle) to separate you from your arm when thrown forward by a breaker. >>>>>>6. Last and least important I did not like the wear and tear on the bungies from a leash tethered to the bungies.<<<<<<< I prefer attaching the tether's clip to a nylon deck line but I don't see how a nylon clip is going to put much wear and tear on the deck bungies (if that is all that is available to tether to). Most of the time it just sits there with no tug on it. >>>>>>>>>As I paddle alone 98% of the time a paddle leash is just one more little bit of insurance besides it keeps my paddle from escaping during coffee/photgraphy breaks. It certainly would not be a good thing in white water nor surf. <<<<<<<< Might this wrist tether not be more likely to get in the way of doing these things than a tether from the paddle to the kayak (or better yet a paddle park that you can release instantly-see the about 1/2 way into the "Owner's " manual on our website for one way to make a paddle park. Can I sue you if a yank from the paddle leash causes me to spill hot coffee on my lap. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. 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