In a message dated 3/22/2002 8:18:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, tombrooklyn_at_yahoo.com writes: > I'd only heard about drinking urine anectodally. Is it > actually a viable survival technique? Would urine be good > for flushing out a wound? Perhaps only if the urinator was > in good health, or only for wounds on the same person the > urine came from? > I have heard that some surfers pee on jellyfish stings. Is there some benefit from uric acid or is that just a macho thing? Tony *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes, it works. I have tried it several times in my life. It worked fast and stopped even pain! It is not a macho thing, I am female:))I think it was an old soldiers trick in WWI. Heike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Tony wrote; > I have heard that some surfers pee on jellyfish stings. Is there some > benefit from uric acid or is that just a macho thing? > Urine, vinegar (with the highest percentage of acidity content you can find), alcohol,meat tenderizer,ammonia all could be used for the initial treatment of jellyfish, certain corals and anemones stings. The liquids mentioned above can help with the immediate reduction of pain. It is said that you should not remove any of the tentacles at this point, if removal is attempted you could release more nematocysts that are triggered causing additional injury. The best procedure it seems is to trap them by powdering the affected area with talcum, flour,sand or dirt which is allowed to dry for a minute or two. The affected area is then scraped clean. One should not rub the affected area or use water or wet sand as this will only activate any remaining nematocysts Arthur Hebert www.lacostadelgolfo.com > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks, Arthur, I guess now I know why the male nurse on the tv show Survivor got a woman to pee on his hand when he was stung by an anenome.... Scott Simpson Anchorage Alaska "There is always one more thing you can do to influence any situation" Lt. Gen Harold Moore, USA (Ret) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Hebert" <seacajun_at_gs.net> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:28 PM > Urine, vinegar (with the highest percentage of acidity content you can > find), alcohol,meat tenderizer,ammonia all could be used for the initial > treatment of jellyfish, certain corals and anemones stings. > The liquids mentioned above can help with the immediate reduction of pain. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Arthur Hebert" <seacajun_at_gs.net> > Urine, vinegar (with the highest percentage of acidity content you can > find), alcohol,meat tenderizer,ammonia all could be used for the initial > treatment of jellyfish, certain corals and anemones stings. Hmmm... might want to check into this. The URLs below contain excerpts from "All Stings Considered," covering first aid and medical treatment of marine injuries for Hawaii (but many of the marine critters are found worldwide... jellyfish, sea urchin, Portuguese man-owar, anemone, sea snakes, etc.) and comments that an Australian study reported urine and alcohol "caused massive nematocyst discharge in the box jellyfish" as well as Portuguese man-of-war. Studies using vinegar had mixed results and meat tenderizer, baking soda showed contradicting results. (I wonder if the different results are due to some kind of changes in the life cycle?) Excerpts from "All Stings Considered" Part 1 (might have to try reloading this a couple of times as I got a server refusal a couple of times) http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/alsting1.html Part 2 http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/alsting2.html cheers, jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is tricky to figure out what is the best way to deal with a noxious marine encounter -say one's bodypart and a jellyfish tentacle. Since the fall of the Third Reich it has been hard for researchers to find out, in a controlled fashion, what eases pain best when poured on a tentacle draped forearm. There is a tendency to accept and pass on as truth the advice of those who most often encounter the problem, say surf lifeguards, or those who write the first aid and wilderness medicine books we study. Without controlled studies, though, we are likely to pass on the unproven "truth" we've read or heard from these "legitimate" sources. It seems that treatment of Jellyfish envenomation has two primary goals: 1) removal of and inactivation of any stinging cells on a tentacle that may not yet have "fired" and injected toxin into one's skin and 2) relief of the pain and systemic effects that already "fired" cells may have produced. It appears to be generally accepted that rinsing a "stung" area with sea water (as opposed to fresh water) is a good first step. Rubbing of the area is thought to be poor form. Regarding the application of some later substance such as vinegar, baking soda, alcohol, meat tenderizer or urine, there is less consensus. And it may be that different coelenterate stinging cells respond differently. Regardless, it may be useful after flooding with vinegar (if available) to mechanically remove any remaining cells with a sand or mud seawater paste or whatever else may be available. There is an antivenin available (to the lucky ones) for the Australian Box Jellyfish but since death can reportedly occur within 60 seconds of contact the antivenin is not always useful. We in the western hemisphere are unlikely to encounter anything worse than the Man of War (which is noxious indeed) but not so deadly as a box jelly. It appears that the best treatment is not completely understood but removing the tentacles mechanically with sea water and possibly applying vinegar, if available, afterwards is about as much good as can be done initially. Larry Koenig www.lacostadelgolfo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Koenigs" <gyst_at_cox.net> > forearm. There is a tendency to accept and pass on as truth the advice of > those who most often encounter the problem, say surf lifeguards, or those > who write the first aid and wilderness medicine books we study. Without > controlled studies, though, we are likely to pass on the unproven "truth" > we've read or heard from these "legitimate" sources. "All Stings Considered" (which I mentioned earlier) is co-authored by a medical doctor. He has written other books on medical first aid for outdoors folks. Looks like a pretty good reference manual for first aid. This from the book: "A key concept in the first aid of any injury is: Do no harm. Therefore, avoid applying unproven, possibly harmful substances to stings." Looks like the authors agree with you :-) There is an email address at the website I mentioned where you can write for more information. I'm sure they'd be glad to answer any questions for you. Always good to get the opinion of a medical professional in such matters, especially those that make this their field of study. There are probably lots of other good sources at your local library (or at .edu sites... medical schools are often a great source) where you can read up on studies conducted. cheers, jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Koenig wrote: - >It is tricky to figure out what is the best way >to deal with a noxious marine encounter G'Day, It might not be relevant in all parts of the world, but the 1999 edition of 'Australian First Aid', ISBN 0 949569 38 0 published by St John Ambulance, has a section dealing with marine bites and stings. The first aid described is consistent with the websites Jackie posted. In this manual vinegar is recommended for box jelly fish and cold packs for other jellyfish stings. A Melbourne University web site gives scientific and first aid information with a more detailed recommendation on when to use vinegar. http://www.pharmacology.unimelb.edu.au/pharmwww/avruweb/creatable.html . About 100 marine stings per day during the holiday season are managed by medical professionals here and a few laboratories have studied the response of jellyfish stinging cells to 'vinegar', which is used not to ease pain but to prevent further release of poison. Seems to me (a non medic) that the sting management strategies recommended by first aid organisations such as St John's Ambulance, although based on limited data, have a reasonable prospect of being appropriate. But maybe prevention is better than cure in warmer climates - In the section on box jelly fish the Melbourne University website shows a picture of Queensland surf lifesavers wearing stinger suits. Alternatively panty hose body stocking have been suggested by some divers/kayakers in tropical waters as a protection against stings - it doesn't sound tough but is supposed to be effective:~) All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > Queensland surf lifesavers wearing stinger suits. Alternatively panty hose > body stocking have been suggested by some divers/kayakers in tropical waters > as a protection against stings - it doesn't sound tough but is supposed to > be effective:~) I'll echo Jackie's comments on the value of this for kayakers, if only for sun protection. I've never gone diving without full body protection and almost always prefer a long-sleeved top to a T-shirt with sunscreen when kayaking. The advantage of light clothing over sun screen is that it is a constant protection and doesn't wear off. The latest MEC catalogue came in the mail and Amie and I just returned from there (she wanted to go - that's rare!). They have increased the number of sun protective clothing products with long sleeved T's and other clothes. They've also introduced us to the acronym UPF (clothing equivalent of SPF). We have more options than ever at dressing lightly for protection; take advantage of it. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
so then, let it be vinegar or maybe ? acidic urine. I refer to anectodotalism not to question so much the undestanding of present day experts but to point out that there is a lot available in what should be reliable books that differs from this. Larry Koenig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > to prevent further release of poison. Seems to me (a non medic) that the > sting management strategies recommended by first aid organisations such as > St John's Ambulance, although based on limited data, have a reasonable > prospect of being appropriate. I agree strongly. The advice from the book I mentioned earlier isn't just anecdotal. It comes from ermergency-room experience as well as studies conducted. Craig Thomas is an emergency room doctor and his co-author/wife is a registered nurse who volunteers with him for the Aloha Medical Mission and earned a bachelor's degree in biology at the University of Hawaii. Since 1987, she she has been writing a weekly column called "Ocean Watch" for the Honolulu Star-bulletin and both are avid divers as well as sailors having sailed their 37-foot sailboat from Connecticut to Hawaii in 1983 where they have since resided. I'd say their observations in the area of marine first aid would be noteworthy. :-) btw, there are 200 species of jellyfish, some of which do not sting at all. > But maybe prevention is better than cure in warmer climates - In the section > on box jelly fish the Melbourne University website shows a picture of > Queensland surf lifesavers wearing stinger suits. Alternatively panty hose > body stocking have been suggested by some divers/kayakers in tropical waters > as a protection against stings - it doesn't sound tough but is supposed to > be effective:~) I can vouch for that. I burn easily so tend to cover myself as best I can for a full day kayak surfing in the sun. My clothing choice for surfing is bicycle pants and longsleeve tops because they prevent sunburn like nothing else for a full day of kayak surfing. One time while out surfing, I wiped out into a school of Portuguese man-of-war. My tight-fitting bicycle pants saved my legs but my not-tight-enough top did not save my upper torso from the stings. It actually trapped them inside my shirt until I could work my way out of the surf and reach the beach and remove it. Was one of those teeth-grinding kinds of pain. I survived, though :-) Don't remember exactly but most likely just rinsed off with fresh water which has been the remedy of choice since I was a kid playing at the beach and stinging went away in short order. This is another excerpt from the book... "Most Hawaii Portuguese man-of-war stings disappear by themselves, sometimes within 15 or 20 minutes. Because of this, even harmful therapies often appear to work. Which is often the case of unproven remedies which develop a reputation as being a great cure. "Hey, the pain stopped, so it's got to be a cure!" cheers, jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
my oh my...if I'd know how interesting this was going to be, I'd have read all the postings...so forgive me if this has been said before: in a first aid course (years ago, I'll admit) we were told that papaya enzymes help neutralize the pain....this is contained in some meat tenderizers. If I remember correctly, we were told to pack a sprinkle bottle/jar of Accent. sandy kramer miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Niilus_at_aol.com wrote: > // I have heard that some surfers pee on jellyfish stings. Is there some > benefit from uric acid or is that just a macho thing? // The Acid in Urine lowers the Ph in the jellyfish stings and makes it ineffective. Not macho at all. -- Wayne Smith (ò¿ó) http://www.waynesmith.net/ 315/185/185 Dr Rumbaut 10/07/1999 --------------------------------------------------- Tag Line for Today: How can you be so deaf with ears like that? - McCoy --------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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