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From: Peter Rattenbury <ratten_at_uow.edu.au>
subject: [Paddlewise] Survival Kites
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:21:08 +1100
Thanks Doug for that link to the above. And I loved Ralph D's story about
kite wars over NY!  Wow,  you sure breed 'em tough over there in the Big
Apple!
The kite Doug pointed us to,  reminds me of a similar kite I saw in the UK
some 15 years ago. Designed by one of those madcap eccentric inventors the
English seem to always have around.  In shape, rather like an oversized
flattened American football, but with right-angled sides.  Hard to describe
but the same idea as those rigid radar reflectors you often see in the
rigging of sailboats.
The kite was tied at its axis, ie the pointy bits of the football so it spun
on its axis in the wind.  It was  easy to launch, spinning as it climbed
into the sky.
For those of you who know London,  I saw this kite demonstrated in Hyde
Park, and it triggered an alert on the radars at Heathrow Airport.  I guess
it was flying a fair way above ground level.  Not bad for a kite about a
foot long, made of metallised nylon.
I had no use for an aerial radar reflector in the middle of London so didn't
buy one.. kick myself now.  It folded down to nothing,  flew from a very
light line as it had no torque to speak of, and would have been an ideal
safety device for long distance sea-kayaking.  Never saw the kite again, so
presumed it did not make it  into commercial production.  But if you're a
handy-person, might make a decent sort of project..
Peter Rattenbury, Wollongong, Australia.

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From: Alex Ferguson <a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Kites
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:02:20 +1200
At 03:21 pm 23/03/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>Thanks Doug for that link to the above. And I loved Ralph D's story about
>kite wars over NY!  Wow,  you sure breed 'em tough over there in the Big
>Apple!

Sounds like every-day India, or Nepal etc. where people (adults and kids) 
fly kites for the competion, not for relaxation. In Japan it can get really 
serious with a whole village taking on the one across the river - one kite 
per village in the air, a great herd of people flying each kite and more 
getting the replacements ready - annual event. We're talking BIG here.

>The kite Doug pointed us to,  reminds me of a similar kite I saw in the UK
>some 15 years ago. In shape, rather like an oversized
>flattened American football, but with right-angled sides.
>The kite was tied at its axis, ie the pointy bits of the football so it spun
>on its axis in the wind.  It was  easy to launch, spinning as it climbed
>into the sky.
>Never saw the kite again, so
>presumed it did not make it  into commercial production.

Saw one a couple of months ago, they are on sale here in NZ and are known 
in the US as a UFO. Can be metalised foam for lightness. Do you want one? 
Can arrange shipping and.... (sorry no commercials.......).!!!!!

Alex
.
.


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From: Joe Pylka <pylka_at_castle.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Survival Kites
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:18:05 -0500
>The kite Doug pointed us to,  reminds me of a similar kite I saw in the UK


>some 15 years ago. In shape, rather like an oversized


>flattened American football, but with right-angled sides.


>The kite was tied at its axis, ie the pointy bits of the football so it spun



>on its axis in the wind.  It was  easy to launch, spinning as it climbed


>into the sky.


>Never saw the kite again, so


>presumed it did not make it  into commercial production.


>>>Saw one a couple of months ago, they are on sale here in NZ and are known 



in the US as a UFO. Can be metalised foam for lightness. Do you want one? 


Can arrange shipping and.... (sorry no commercials.......).!!!!!





It's already available in the US, from Edmund Scientifics,  a well known
science junkie's mecca.  They are not in the popular retail business anymore,
but the operation was sold to a company in Buffalo.  Here's the location for
that kite:


http://www.scientificsonline.com/Products/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=1596





Joe P..








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From: Matt Poese <matt_at_sabine.acs.psu.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] Refinishing Klepper A-II frame
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:34:17 -0500 (EST)
Paddlewisers -- 

	Can anyone share any tips for refinishing a Klepper A-II frame?
The frame was made in 1957 and some of the original varnish is flaking
off. The frame hasn't been used very much and does not show the black
spots that (I think) come from mildew growing under the varnish (it gets
in where there are nicks or scratches.)

Specific questions I have:

1)  Should I use a chemical stripper, or sandpaper and elbow grease?

2)  Does anyone advocate removal of the fittings?  This seems like it
would really lengthen the job.  Is masking the fittings necessary?
Is there a good idea for masking the fittings besides masking tape?

3)  Once the old varnish has been removed, is there any treatment that I
should consider before applying the new varnish?

4)  What type of varnish should I use?  Should I apply with a brush or dip
the wood into the varnish?  How many coats?

5)  How long should the job take?


Thanks for your help,

Matt
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From: <FoldingBoats_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Refinishing Klepper A-II frame
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:15:08 EST
In a message dated 3/25/2002 10:06:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
matt_at_sabine.acs.psu.edu writes:

> ... Can anyone share any tips for refinishing a Klepper A-II frame? The 
> frame was made in 1957 and some of the original varnish is flaking off. ...

Elbow grease to take the frame members back to the bare wood is the preferred 
method if you want to "do the job right." Chemical stripers can leave you 
with pockets of nasty surprises unless you rinse the then unprotected wood 
very thoroughly with (then contaminated!) water and dry carefully ... which 
may result in twisting and warping. 

Removing the fittings would strictly speaking be proper procedure, but is 
probably not really necessary; you say that only some of the varnish is 
flaking off at this stage and that there is no staining, so the varnish 
barrier has been largely intact up to now, even around the critical corners 
of fittings. As long as those corners are carefully prepared to accept the 
new coats of varnish, working around the fittings should give you perfectly 
workable results.

Treating the wood with a good oil (cocktail) prior to varnishing, even if not 
all the varnish has been stripped, will go a long way towards lasting 
protection of the frame. Just be careful that the (linseed- tung-, etc. -oil, 
"boiled"!) does not contact the hull skin. Given the birth year of your boat, 
the hull material will be based on natural rather than synthetic rubber 
("hypalon"). The former can rapidly deteriorate in the presence of oil. By 
the same token you should also wait for the varnish to cure fully (i.e., for 
the oils to evaporate or polymerize; timing according to suppliers info) 
before bringing it into contact with the skin again.

Since varnishing, especially the prepping required for a workmanlike job, can 
turn into such a chore, there is a dedicated group of wood framed folding 
boaters out there (with non-natural-rubber hull skins!), who swear by merely 
wiping the frame members down with above mentioned oil concoctions at the 
beginning of each season - on the first warmish, sunny, wind still day of 
spring, for example - subsequently letting the oil polymerize outdoors while 
enjoying the sight over a well deserved adult beverage of their choice while 
hanging over the fence yakking with the neighbor in complete relaxation 
(almost as good as paddling, they say).

With just a little care that frame will be good for the next 45 years!!

Best regards,
Ralph

Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com
www.PouchBoats.com

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From: Peter Chopelas <pac_at_premier1.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Refinishing Klepper A-II frame
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:55 -0800
Matt wrote:

>>Can anyone share any tips for refinishing a Klepper A-II frame?
The frame was made in 1957 and some of the original varnish is flaking
off. The frame hasn't been used very much and does not show the black
spots that (I think) come from mildew growing under the varnish.

Good, that means there should not be any rot either since the wood stayed
dry.

>1)  Should I use a chemical stripper, or sandpaper and elbow grease?

Although a stripper is more toxic, it is faster and will not take away any
of the wood substrate.  A less attractive idea is to just wire brush the
loose flaky finish off and recoat over it.  It will seal the exposed wood
where the old finish is not bonded, and the old finish where it is still
bonded will be covered under the new.  But it is only an interim "quick and
dirty" protection for the wood, and will have to be reapplied more
frequently.

I would prefer to take the old finish off.  All finishes break down with
time and putting on all fresh finish will make it last longer.

>2)  Does anyone advocate removal of the fittings?  This seems like it
would really lengthen the job.  Is masking the fittings necessary?
Is there a good idea for masking the fittings besides masking tape?

The finish on the fittings will also protect them from corrosion, no harm is
done in leaving them on and it would seal out moisture better since when
replacing the fittings you will likely scratch off the new finish in places.
the disadvantage is it will be more difficult to remove the fittings later
if necessary for repairs since the fasteners will be sealed up in the
finish.  I would leave them on.  You only need to mask the any moving parts
(latches, slip fittings, etc.).

>3)  Once the old varnish has been removed, is there any treatment that I
should consider before applying the new varnish?

clean clear wood is best for the finish.  I would consider adding the
commercial anti-fungus additives available in paint stores to at least the
first coat of finish (handle carefully because these additives are toxic).

>4)  What type of varnish should I use?  Should I apply with a brush or dip
the wood into the varnish?  How many coats?

Use a linseed oil based outdoor finish and a soft brush to make sure you
fill all the grain.  "Man-o-War" marine finish is a good choice since it
also has UV inhibitors and is not too costly.  I have also used Minwax
"Antique Oil Finish" with excellent results, thought it does not have the UV
inhibitors, which is probably not as much an issue with a kayak unless you
store it outside.

Do not use Polyurethane based finish on a kayak frame since it is brittle
(it is harder and better for table tops and floors), and it will crack and
flake off a kayak frame sooner than oil based finish.  The oil based
finishes will be more durable and actually last longer in this application
since they are softer and more flexible (do not let a salesman tell you
otherwise).  The oil based finish is easier to chemically strip for future
refinishing too, the hard brittle remains of the polyurethane will have to
be ground off, risking taking some of the wood with it.  Also do not use
strait linseed oil as some books recommend.  It works but it is kind of soft
by itself and it will take months until it will not be tacky.

Thin the first coat with about 30% turpentine (and add the anti-fungi
additive) to get good penetration.  wait for complete drying (several days
at least), and add at least two more coats without the thinner to get
adequate protection.  A fourth coat will make it glossy and look nice, but
will also increase the risk of it cracking since the total finish layer will
be thicker.  But it does offer more abrasion protection.

>5)  How long should the job take?

That depend on you of course, but I would expect to take a total time of
about 4 to 6 hours of direct labor on the frame. (You could spend that much
time getting all the materials together and clearing a space to work on it).
Most of that time, about 3+ hours for stripping.  Each successive coat of
finish will go quickly. It should not be necessary to sand between coats if
you do them successively.  If you want it to look real nice you could wait
about a week after the 2nd to last coat (to let the last coat dry good and
hard) and lightly sand before the last coat to smooth the grain, and to take
off any dust or tiny bubbles in the finish. Clean with a tack cloth and put
on the final coat.  I do not bother with this on a kayak frame since
appearance is only secondary for the finish on a kayak.

 I like to hang it the frame from the bow and stern with nails driven into
the end pieces, balanced so I can slowly roll the frame as I coat each set
of stringers (less chance of missing a spot, and it is easier on your
back!).  I tie it off to hold it steady at each position I work on it.  On a
folder you could hang each piece separately.

I have done a number of home-built skin on frame hulls over the last few
years and what I wrote here is what I have learned in the process, both from
others and by trial and error.

Peter

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From: Fitzsimmons, Mark A <mark.a.fitzsimmons_at_boeing.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Refinishing Klepper A-II frame
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:38:38 -0800
> From: Matt Poese <matt_at_sabine.acs.psu.edu>
> Subject: [Paddlewise] Refinishing Klepper A-II frame
> 
> Specific questions I have:
> 
> 1)  Should I use a chemical stripper, or sandpaper and elbow grease?
> 
Scrapers first then sandpaper are best. If you must, chemical strippers
should be used in well ventilated areas, and an organic chemical respirator
is a great idea. It will give you leukemia or other cancers if you breathe
too much of it. The sandpaper will be good exercise for your arms, get you
ready for paddling.

> 2)  Does anyone advocate removal of the fittings?  This seems like it
> would really lengthen the job.  Is masking the fittings necessary?
> Is there a good idea for masking the fittings besides masking tape?

Removal of fittings will make a nicer job, do a better waterproofing of the
wood around the fitting (where it's probably needed most) and make it easier
to remove/repair the fittings in the future. It will also alert you to any
rotten wood that needs repair before you reinstall screws. Drill out rotten
wood, and use epoxy and a dowel to fill rotten holes and redrill them after
it sets. With a drill and screwdriver bit it shouldn't take very long to
remove the screws.

> 
> 3)  Once the old varnish has been removed, is there any 
> treatment that I
> should consider before applying the new varnish?

sandpaper only, remove dust with compressed air or a dry brush, and wipe
with a tack cloth or rag damp with alcohol or lacquer thinner. let dry.

> 
> 4)  What type of varnish should I use?  Should I apply with a 
> brush or dip
> the wood into the varnish?  How many coats?

Best is Z-spar, but expensive, and Z-spar dries quickly so it's harder to
apply. Any spar varnish with UV inhibitors will work though. Do not thin
varnish. Use a brush. Don't apply too much at once, to the point that it
drips or sags (such as dipping). If the wood is exposed to sunlight, 6
coats. If not, 2-4 coats is sufficient. Sand lightly between coats with fine
sandpaper after it dries. if the sandpaper clogs and makes balls of the
varnish, it's not ready to sand yet (*or you sanded a drip that was still
sticky). Anything between 180-400 grit is okay.

> 
> 5)  How long should the job take?

1-2 hours of scraping and sanding, depending on how bad it is 
1 hour per coat

> 
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Matt
> 
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