Yesterday in the Twin Cities, big flakes of snow were falling, and the temperature was in the low 30s F. -- a beautiful day for kayaking. Since it was also the day of the Inland Sea Kayakers' cold water immersion excursion, Linda and I dressed in our dry suits, threw our kayaking gear into the back of my '91 Accord wagon -- our Romanys were still on top after the ISK lakeshore cleanup the previous day -- and set off down the highway toward Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis. Shortly after merging onto I-35W, I saw a sudden slowdown of traffic ahead of me, and stepped on the brakes. I had just removed my foot from the brake pedal when our car was struck from behind by a Jeep Cherokee driven by a young woman. Fortunately no one in either vehicle was injured, but the impact stove in the Accord's rear hatch, spraying glass all over our kayaking gear, smashed the tail lights, and sprang the right rear passenger door. It also knocked our kayaks and Yakima rack two feet backwards, ripping three of the Yakima towers off the car and destroying one. If it weren't for the kayaks' bow tie-downs, I'm convinced the kayaks would have sailed backwards off the car, and either crashed through the windshield of the Jeep -- possibly killing the driver -- or fallen off and been run over by the Jeep before the vehicles stopped. Fortunately, our car was still driveable, and with the Yakima towers hanging down on either side of the roof, stabilizing the load, we were able to drive the kayaks back home. Once the kayaks were unstrapped and lifted off the car, however, the rear rack bar was totally loose. I don't always use bow tie-downs when traveling short distances. I did this time because of the discussions on Paddlewise, and I'm glad. Now I'm starting to think more seriously about using stern tie-downs, too. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck, May I have permission to forward your message to our club members via the California Kayak Friends email server? I know a lot of people who think I am nuts for always tying my boats down front and rear because they think nothing can happen to their boats if they are strapped tightly to their racks. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: > I don't always use bow tie-downs when traveling short distances. I did this > time because of the discussions on Paddlewise, and I'm glad. Now I'm > starting to think more seriously about using stern tie-downs, too. > > Chuck Holst > A good lesson for all of us on the reason why you need both bow and stern lines. Think of what might have happened if someone had hit them from the front, without a stern line! Thank God no one was hurt. It's always the other guy you have to be prepared for, it seems. I hope the Romanys came through without damage. Given the description of the damage to his wagon, it seems that Chuck is, or maybe soon will be, in the market for a new kayak "carrier". Maybe something that'll hold its own with a Cherokee? ;-) It's making my rethink the way I tie down. Our kayaks over hang the rear of our car, so both bow and stern lines slope backwards. Nothing other than the webbing straps at the saddles, on either side of the cockpit, to keep the boats from moving forward. From Chucks description of the accident it seems that the tower/car connection is the weak link, since three of the four towers separated from the car. The only restraint I have on forward movement is connected to the cross bar. This does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. My existing bow and stern lines would limit the distance the kayak could move forward, but I'm thinking in terms of adding something like a line running from the bow to the rear fender. Am I being too paranoid? John Blackburn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Chuck Holst wrote: > > I don't always use bow tie-downs when traveling short distances. I did this > > time because of the discussions on Paddlewise, and I'm glad. Now I'm > > starting to think more seriously about using stern tie-downs, too. Another very long-time user of bow and stern tie-downs. > Nothing other than the >webbing straps at the saddles, on either side of the cockpit, to keep the >boats >from moving forward. I have at times, on previous vehicles, used a rope from the rear bumper to the cockpit as a restrainer. > From Chucks description of the accident it seems that the >tower/car connection is the weak link, since three of the four towers >separated >from the car. With my rack and when I build racks, there is a bar connecting the cross bars, fitted down the centre. I have at times used two bars, one each side. The bar is bolted through the rack and stops it from "toppling" i.e. "rolling" forward. The present vehicle is a van so the kayaks are high and the supports well spaced. Each boat has a "bungy" made of tyre inner tube loops (slices across the tube) larkshead or cowhitched knotted together to make a long "bungy". Tied to the centre of the cross bar, looped over a kayak and then over the end of the bar. Four bungies for two kayaks. It and the cradle shapes help stop sliding on the rack. Alex . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Another point that might be made in this thread is about webbing tie downs. In the trade webbing is called narrow fabric. It is another weak link in your system. Particularly in areas of strong UV exposure, webbing deteriorates faster that rope since it is thin and the UV penetrates more easily. Though webbing is convenient, if used it should be inspected with each use and replaced when it shows any sign of degradation or on a regular basis since the weakness is not always visible. 303 Protectant applied regularly will slow down the UV deterioration. If you really want a secure tie down, use polyester rope on the racks and bow and stern lines. Mark > It's making my rethink the way I tie down. Our kayaks over hang the rear of > our car, so both bow and stern lines slope backwards. Nothing other than the > webbing straps at the saddles, on either side of the cockpit, to keep the > boats > from moving forward. From Chucks description of the accident it seems that > the > tower/car connection is the weak link, since three of the four towers > separated *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Balogh >>>Particularly in areas of strong UV exposure, webbing deteriorates faster that rope since it is thin and the UV penetrates more easily. Though webbing is convenient, if used it should be inspected with each use and replaced when it shows any sign of degradation or on a regular basis since the weakness is not always visible. 303 Protectant applied regularly will slow down the UV deterioration. If you really want a secure tie down, use polyester rope on the racks and bow and stern lines. It's easy to see that UV can be a problem simply from the fading of the pigments in the webbing. I have had straps fail, but not because of UV deterioration. Generally the buckle you use slowly abrades the webbing because it always is applied to the same area of the webbing. When I see this becoming noticeable it's time to replace the strap. I think this occurs sooner than UV degradation builds up... I use webbing only around the boat. It's much quicker to fasten the boat to the racks, and by wrapping around the bar from the center I have four contact surfaces on the boat rather than two as I would with a rope. It also conforms to the shape of the boat better, which aids in keeping the boat from sliding fore and aft. For tiedowns I always use Prussik cord. It's far stronger than anything else for its size, and as all these postings have noted, keeping the boat from taking off is a major reason for them. I have a friend who always attaches a separate line from the rear bumper directly to the rear rack as well, just in case the rack slips in an accident... Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:35 AM 4/22/2002 -0500, Chuck Holst wrote: >I don't always use bow tie-downs when traveling short distances. I did this >time because of the discussions on Paddlewise, and I'm glad. Now I'm >starting to think more seriously about using stern tie-downs, too. Chuck, I'm glad to hear no one was injured. I hope this doesn't keep you off the water too long. I use both bow and stern lines when car-topping and will continue to do so, however I was wondering something about your accident and would like you to comment. On my vehicle, and probably most others, the sterns of my boats extend back further than the rear of the vehicle. In my case, the stern lines run from the stainless steel hoops where the rear carry toggles attach, down to eyes I have mounted just below the rear bumper. If I had an accident like yours, I was wondering if the car behind would first have contacted my stern lines, shortening them with its forward motion, so that it would try to bend the kayaks around the rear saddles. Can you picture what I'm saying? What do you think would happen? Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That's a good point, in my case the shortening of the lines would most likely break our kayaks at the rear saddles, and fling the two sterns into the car that rear ended me! Most likely directly through the windshield! John Blackburn "Leonhardt, William J" wrote: > If I had > an accident like yours, I was wondering if the car behind would first have > contacted my stern lines, shortening them with its forward motion, so that > it would try to bend the kayaks around the rear saddles. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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