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From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Club liability
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
Our club is currently at an impasse about whether to pursue club
liability insurance and require waivers, or to be a loose group of
"consenting adults" with no responsibility or liability to each other.

Does anyone know of any case law precedence concerning recreational (or
specifically, paddling) clubs?

I'm all for the status quo, but I'm scared that something bad could
happen, and as a club officer (and certified instructor), I could get
sued and lose because I "know better".

Shawn 

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From: Al Vazquez <alvazquez_at_kayakguide.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club liability
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:51:43 -0400
Shawn,

On PW, we've exchanged ideas about carrying poop. And we've talked about
peeing on wounds.  These topics were important, though distasteful.  But the
liability topic you raise is, to me, far more distasteful than poop transport,
and unfortunately, also important to discuss for paddlers.

My local club decided years ago to become an ACA club, in all honesty,
primarily for the liability protection the ACA offered. We had a disgruntled
paddler sue a trip leader on a trip that was canceled at the last minute
because ( despite the leader's best efforts ) the paddler didn't get word of
the cancellation. So because they were unhappy about driving to the put in
needlessly, they sued the leader.

You asked about case law. To a great extent, in the U.S., that's not
necessarily the most relevant risk. The most common exposure is simply the
fact that here, you can be sued by anyone for any reason and you'll have a
difficult time recovering your legal defense expenses even if they lose. So to
be pragmatic, it's worth considering investment in some liability coverage to
avoid these legal defense costs. And, of course, it may also make sense to
obtain insurance against the rarer legitimate lawsuit because, after all, we
do all make mistakes and we should be responsible for those mistakes.

Tort reform is long overdue in the U.S.. But even when it's been raised in the
past, it's been motivated by large corporations interested in capping their
liability and not by making those that sue when they shouldn't, pay for their
lack of ethics.
--
Al Vazquez
KayakGuide.com tm
         Places to Paddle tm
 - Kayaking - Canoeing - Rafting -

Shawn Baker wrote:

> Our club is currently at an impasse about whether to pursue club liability
> insurance and require waivers, or to be a loose group of "consenting adults"
> with no responsibility or liability to each other.
>
> Shawn



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From: Wayne Smith <wsmith16_at_snet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Club liability
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:53:02 -0400
> My local club decided years ago to become an ACA club, in all honesty,
> primarily for the liability protection the ACA offered. We had a
disgruntled
> paddler sue a trip leader on a trip that was canceled at the last minute
> because ( despite the leader's best efforts ) the paddler didn't get
word of
> the cancellation. So because they were unhappy about driving to the put
in
> needlessly, they sued the leader.

Al,

That's absolutely shocking, even to me, who makes his living around the
personal injury industry. I thought I had heard them all by now!

Without getting too technical about it, suing somebody doesn't necessarily
mean winning the case. I hope they were laughed out of court (It would be
small claims, so anything is possible).

As president of one of the clubs I paddle with, I think about this subject
a lot. Our answer has been "If you buy it (Insurance), they (Lawyers) will
come". No attorney worth their sheepskin would sue an entity that has no
attachable assets, so we keep the club as close to zero assets as we can.
We also have a "no leaders" policy -- there is a contact person who has
the launch site and destination info only, and all other decisions are by
consensus of the participants (A little raucous at times, but it seems to
work OK). That doesn't protect the club officers or any participant in a
club paddle from being sued personally, but that's what the liability
portion of homeowner's insurance is for.

Bottom line is that in the US, somebody can sue you if your dog dumps on
their lawn (speaking of poop)...........if they're greedy enough, they'll
find a way no matter what you do to protect yourself. Do nothing, do
everything, same result. Go paddling, be safe, and enjoy! The odds are
still in your favor, no matter what you may hear otherwise.

Wayne Smith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Wayne Smith
wsmith16_at_snet.net

Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page:
http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html



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