> > jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net writes: > > > > > > > I just don't see the point of distributing [disclaimers] to paddle on a > > > public canal. > Ralph says: snip I think the legal term is > something like a "yellow contract" meaning your were forced to sign. This > occurs for example if you drive 4 hours to go on an event and then at the > last minute a release form is shoved in your face. The only way you can > participate is if you sign and you have gone a long way out of your way to > get there. However, if you were told beforehand that you would have to sign > a release then you did have a choice of not going through great pains to get > there. Clubs, of course, can insist on signing a waiver annually with your > new membership or renewal. I gladly sign every release form that is put in front of me and feel bad that we live in a society that has become so litigious that they are required. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Jolie > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jolie Smilowicz" <jolie_at_rockisland.com> > Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I think it went out the window when some woman sued McDonalds because she spilled some hot coffee in her lap AND WON. If I can't get a cup of hot coffee anymore--can you imagine what would happen if somebody drowned, hit their head on a rock, got bit by a fish, etc??? Waivers don't prevent you from getting sued but they sure can help prove informed consent and assumption of risk. I don't usually worry about getting sued by people that I paddle with--but their surviving family members could be a whole different ball game. BTW Jolie, with your attitude, you are WELCOME to paddle with me anytime. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I think it went out the window when some woman sued McDonalds because she spilled some hot coffee in her lap AND WON. ************************************************************************ ************* As I recall, she won because the coffee was nearly boiling -- not normal drinking temperature -- and it scalded her. So it's not quite as crazy as it sounds. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I hate it when I request hot coffee and am served hot coffee. How many attorneys would take these cases without pay? Don't look at the "victims". Look at the catalyst. ----- Original Message ----- > > As I recall, she won because the coffee was nearly boiling -- not normal > drinking temperature -- and it scalded her. So it's not quite as crazy as > it sounds. > > Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve, | I think it went out the window when some woman sued McDonalds because she | spilled some hot coffee in her lap AND WON. She should have won. There was an article on this in the Wall Street Journal years ago. The women was burned when she spilled coffee on herself at a McD's drive in. The coffee was so hot she got second degree burns on her lap and legs. Now one can argue she should not have spilled the coffee. And this is true. But WHY was McD's selling coffee that was so hot it would cause second degree burns? Now some people say they like hot coffee. Fine. I like hot coffee. Heck I'll even drink COLD coffee. But I DON'T WANT to drink coffee that will burn the heck out of my lips and tongue! 8-) So why was the coffee so hot? It was this hot so that people would NOT drink the coffee. Yes you read that right. McD's had/has a policy on free coffee refills. So to HOLD DOWN costs, i.e., to make money, McD's DELIBERATE policy was to keep their coffee at very high temps. It was just below boiling if I remember correctly. McD's had had numerous complaints, injuries and lawsuits over the years but refused to lower the temps of the coffee. This is why the lady one the lawsuit. It was all about McD's saving a few cents on a coffee refill. Wonderful company. I was in a McD's at about the time this happened. The coffee was so hot I burned my lips and tongue. Even after putting ice in the coffee I was well on down the road before I could have my cup of joe. It was one of the last times I ever bought anything from The Arches. I wish the women had one more money off the cheap SOBs.... Later... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A waiver, disclaimer or release can be effective against potential liability but, as we legal types like to say, it depends . . . The release has to be tailored to the situation and the person signing must understand it and sign it freely. The release should describe the risks that the person signing agrees to assume. If someone is injured from a risk covered by the release, the release should be effective. On the other hand, if the release is just a boiler plate document and the injury arises from a situation not covered in the release, the release won't protect anyone. A release that just says "I agree not to sue . . ." is of questionable value, whereas one that describes the risks is more likely to be enforced. So if you sign a release for a daytime NY Harbor paddle that warns of the risk from ferry boats, you won't have a claim if you get wiped out by the Staten Island Ferry. But if the group leader keeps you out after dark and you get lost and drown, you might have a good case. As I said, it depends . . . >From: jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Fw: signing a disclaimer > >I hate it when I request hot coffee and am served hot coffee. How many >attorneys would take these cases without pay? Don't look at the "victims". >Look at the catalyst. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: "Jolie Smilowicz" <jolie_at_rockisland.com> > >> Whatever happened to personal responsibility? > Here in Holland people aren't as litigous. Most outdoor organizations require members to purchase sport specific insurance plans. For example, I belong to the national climbing organization and they required me to get climbing insurance. It was actually quite cheap. There has also been discussion about making rescue insurance madatory in some high risk climbing areas around the world. An interesting tidbit. Most people in Holland carry personal liability insurance. If I spill wine on your shirt in a bar, my insurance covers the cleaning bill. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:29 PDT