P'Wisers, thanks to prior posts about carrying water, I'm trying out the suggestion to use the Box-O-Wine bags on a 4 day trip coming up in about 10 days. I've completed the "chore" of emptying the bags (hic-up!) but am having trouble getting the wine scent out of them. First, I'm not sure the scent is really an issue . As long as the bag is clean, who cares what the interior smells like!? But, in the event that the scent is indicative of the bag not being as clean as it should be or impacting the taste f the water, what's the best way to do a thorough cleaning and scent removal? My current method is to fill the bag 1/4 full of water and add a few drops of dish washing liquid, shake aggressively for several minutes, then dump the contents, refill with water and dump, repeatedly, to get all the soap out. Then, smell it, determine it's not done, and repeat the process. Been through that three times and still have a wine scent. What's next? Rinse with baking soda or something else? I've seen the answer in previous posts regarding new water carriers of one sort or another, just can't remember the answer and didn't take notes from that thread. My bad. Thanks. Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>> My current method is to fill the bag 1/4 full of water and add a few drops of dish washing liquid, shake aggressively for several minutes, then dump the contents, refill with water and dump, repeatedly, to get all the soap out. Then, smell it, determine it's not done, and repeat the process. Been through that three times and still have a wine scent. Those Chez D'Cardboard wine bags are an inert plastic. Your detergent treatment should have cleaned them thoroughly. How 'bout the parts comprising the cap and valves? They're usually detachable and might have residual dregs in their crannies. Soak 'em separately, rinse liberally and see if this improves the situation. (That's the part you're generally sniffing...) Joe P. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:20 AM 6/10/2002 -0400, you wrote: >P'Wisers, thanks to prior posts about carrying water, I'm trying out the >suggestion to use the Box-O-Wine bags on a 4 day trip coming up in about >10 days. I've completed the "chore" of emptying the bags (hic-up!) but am >having trouble getting the wine scent out of them. Try using alka-seltzer to clean them. It sounds strange but that was recommended to me as a way of cleaning camelbaks (hydration bladders) that had become science experiments... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Has anyone tried denture cleaners??? John Blackburn Kirk Olsen wrote: > Try using alka-seltzer to clean them. > > It sounds strange but that was recommended to me as a way of cleaning > camelbaks (hydration bladders) that had become science experiments... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am getting ready to install a Bosworth Series 500-S bilge pump in my Eddyline Wind Dancer. They have three different valve styles: flapper, duck bill, and umbrella. Which one should I order? Should I use check valves at the intake and thru hull? I've seen a few posts mention ordering a lighter spring for the pump. Is the standard spring to stiff to operate with your foot? Is the water discharged during the compression of the spring or the return of the spring? I have to replace the forward bulkhead because it is made of foam. How thick should the bulkhead be to support pushing on the pump? I will be using okoume plywood purchased from Chesapeake Light Craft. They have it 3mm, 4mm, 6mm, and 9mm sizes. My best guess would be to laminate two 6mm pieces of plywood together and epoxy/glass the outside. -- Jan Mason td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Jan Mason" <td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com> > I have to replace the forward bulkhead because it is > made of foam. How thick should the bulkhead be to support pushing on the > pump? I will be using okoume plywood purchased from Chesapeake Light Craft. > They have it 3mm, 4mm, 6mm, and 9mm sizes. My best guess would be to > laminate two 6mm pieces of plywood together and epoxy/glass the outside. That sounds awfully heavy. One of my kayaks has a bulkhead I made with a single layer of 4mm okoume and two layers of 3 oz glass on either side. I think it would support a foot pump. I would think that a single 6mm layer, glassed both sides would do fine. What is the width and depth of hull where the bulkhead goes? My kayak is a Solstice GTHV - if yours is significantly smaller than that, the bulkhead would be somewhat stiffer and stronger just due to the reduced span; stiffness changes with the square of the span. It will also be affected by the method of attaching the bulkhead to the hull - if you attach with a sealant it will be more flexible and weaker than if you glassed it in with a fillet of fiberglass on either side. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > I have to replace the forward bulkhead because it is > > made of foam. How thick should the bulkhead be to support pushing on the > > pump? I will be using okoume plywood purchased from Chesapeake Light > Craft. > > They have it 3mm, 4mm, 6mm, and 9mm sizes. My best guess would be to > > laminate two 6mm pieces of plywood together and epoxy/glass the outside. > >That sounds awfully heavy. One of my kayaks has a bulkhead I made with >a single layer of 4mm okoume and two layers of 3 oz glass on either side. >I think it would support a foot pump. A 3 mm or 4 mm bulkhead is all that's necessary. What you should do is put in a vertical stiffener, about 20 mm square (20 x 30 mm ?), epoxied on to the bulkhead. No need to glass the bulkhead both sides, we never do. It will be the vertical stiffener that will take the stress and that is what should be well fastened to the hull and underdeck. Alex . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I guess I'll have to weigh in on this subject, as I'm currently going through the whole thought process concerning pumps. My conclusion is that using anything that takes your hands off the paddle in conditions that , I will assume, are very serious is next to useless. Any pump that won't empty your cockpit in less than 2 or 3 minutes is a liability in serious conditions. That leaves only the electric pump as a viable option. I have no particular desire to make my boat high tech, if any thing I prefer the simplifying everything, especially electronics and cutting additional holes in my boat. Add to that my ignorance of electronics assembly, these electric pumps wouldn't be high on my list if they didn't fill the requirements so well. I'm new to this board and have missed a lot, but does anyone have long term experience with this type of set up? There's lots of information, (1999 Paddlewise.com) on numerous sites, but I don't recall any comments 3 or 4 years down the line after the installation. I'm sure the pump will be fine but how about the battery pack & wiring? Do they need constant replacement? Constant maintenance I can accept as a given. Kevin Nelson > > I have to replace the forward bulkhead because it is > > made of foam. A 3 mm or 4 mm bulkhead is all that's necessary. What you should do is put in a vertical stiffener, about 20 mm square (20 x 30 mm ?), epoxied on to the bulkhead. No need to glass the bulkhead both sides, we never do. It will be the vertical stiffener that will take the stress and that is what should be well fastened to the hull and underdeck. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The setup I described in the Paddlewise Topics section required little maintenance for over two full seasons. Some of the tape I used to cover the silicone-sealed wire splices was peeling and needed replacement, but the pump continued to work well (emptying my Romany cockpit to within about 1 inch in about 4 minutes). Then I somehow kicked loose the epoxy that joined the plastic pump bracket to the fiberglass bulkhead at the front of my cockpit. I paddled for awhile with the pump loosely held in place, waiting for an opportunity to re-attach it, but during the winter I pulled the pump and wiring out (but the outlet port with check valve is still there). Had I bolted the pump in place on the bulkhead originally, it would still be functioning in my kayak. I have two boats now, so I have a notion to fabricate a portable arrangement, mounted on a board of some kind so that it would fit behind the seat, that would be transportable from boat to boat. I wonder if I'll ever get around to it.... BV *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If you have used the "hypothermia tent" distributed by GRO, please contact me. I bought one recently and I need some tips on using it. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You might consider Ailik Bay in the Kenai Fjords National Park. You will likely need a motor drop into the bay but it is heavenly and the Park Service has a great cabin you can rent. http://www.nps.gov/kefj/pphtml/camping.html I did Ailik a couple of years ago and took these photos: http://community.webshots.com/album/8650865cYaorsbwWc The salmon were so thick they were bumping my boat! The photos of the Dahl sheep and caribou were taken in Denali. I vividly remember the thunder of the glacier crashing into the bay. Hope the photos wet your appetite, I need to scan more of them. Happy paddling! -- MZ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Will do. I am also making the following mods to the kayak. Putting in a Sealline rudder system. Putting in two solid rear hulkheads and a day hatch because the one foam bulkhead does not support the hull. Four months after I got the boat the gel coat started cracking just in front of the leading edge of the rear hatch on both sides. I have had the kayak for 1.5 years now and the cracks are now 5 inches long. I have the Kevlar version of the Eddyline Wind Dancer. The cracking is due to the hull flexing and twisting when doing paddle float rescues. You can hear and see it happening. You can see the rear hatch twisting when I slide up on the rear deck. To fix this I am going to replace the rear foam bulkhead with a 6mm plywood one and move its location forward a bit. Also adding a second rear bulkhead just forward of the rear hatch. This should beef up the rear deck and give me a day hatch. Adding two thru hull penetrations so that I can keep two bags of water behind the seat to get them off the deck. The Wind Dancer is a high volume boat which is rated at 450lbs. I am swimming in the cockpit. Going to put in a custom foam cockpit. Adding a perimeter line too. How is that for a summer project? Great boat. The only problem I have had is due to the foam bulkheads. I guess the reason they are used instead of solid bulkheads is materials and labor. I bet it is cheaper to put in a foam bulkhead than a solid one. > I have the same boat, and am interested in how it works for you! Please > send a pic of the finished product! Also, location installed, etc.. -- Jan Mason td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/11/2002 8:57:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, knelson_at_actionpoint.com writes: > I'm sure the pump will be fine but how about the battery pack & wiring? Do > they need constant replacement? Constant maintenance I can accept as a > given. > >From some experimentation with these widgets, Kevin --- but not including a long term installation, to address that part of the question --- electric pumps are impeller driven, using a fan-like device to spin off the bilge water into a manifold of tubes that eventually push the water overboard. That little impeller spins up pretty fast, and anything (1) cheap, (2) fast and (3) mechanical will wear out over time. The battery will need recharging, obviously, and the area in which you keep the battery needs to be vented since these batteries will outgas a lot of pressure if discharged quickly. The area of concern for me is the switch and wiring, and, like you, I'd like to simplify as much as possible (not always obvious from the look of my kayaks). One way to draw down complexity is to consider using one of the "automatic" electric pumps: the standard "automatic" feature (expensive) circuit (when turned on probably with or housed inside the battery container) spins up the impeller every two minutes or so, and, if it encounters back pressure from water in the bilge, stays on until most water is discharged and the back pressure drops off. There is also a PWC "automatic" pump (very expensive); the operating principles are the same, but the frequency of sampling is much higher --- every 20 seconds or so. (Either automatic pump can be started manually by cycling the switch off and on at any time, but you need to be able to get to it, and that may not be a good option, especially if it's housed inside a sealed bulkheaded compartment.) The question centers on the value of *not* having an externally mounted, "submersible" switch in the system (also expensive). (For approximation, if a "500" series pump is $20, the automatic is maybe $45 and the PWC model might be $60, but this is from memory; the switch --- same caveat --- is about $45. These aren't "list" prices, but are discounted prices from more aggressive retailers.) My final decision -- or as "final" as any kayak outfitting decision ever is -- is to mount a "submersible" switch just inside the coaming where I can get to it without releasing the skirt, and go with the "500" series pump and a decent battery (alarm system size is good). Submersible connections are the only way to go, in my opinion --- derived from more than one at-sea test deployment of emergency gear in the safety device business --- and are not an option; a copious amount of marine RTV on a "waterproof" switch is not the equivalent of a "submersible" switch, either. One other thought --- in addition to venting the area where the battery is stored (blow-out plug, flapper, GoreTex sample epoxied over a hole in the bulkhead, ...), any pump that is mounted inside the cockpit --- whether foot or hand operated or electric --- will generate a partial vacuum, and the better the skirt and cockpit rim seal, the more the pump is going to have to fight the vacuum to push the water overboard. There's precious little power in an impeller pump in the first place, so having some way to allow an equalization of pressure in the cockpit is an advantage in emptying the area quickly. (I have a four inch deckplate/bag "glovebox" in the foredeck of my Pintail, and I back off the plate about a half turn while I'm pumping out because my skirts are all tight fits (everywhere, unfortunately) and pressure builds up quickly, especially with the old Henderson "chimp" foot pump mounted there now.) Good luck --- please share your final ideas and installation. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:03 AM 6/12/02 EDT, JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: >My final decision -- or as "final" as any kayak outfitting decision ever is >-- is to mount a "submersible" switch just inside the coaming where I can get >to it without releasing the skirt, and go with the "500" series pump and a >decent battery (alarm system size is good). Submersible connections are the >only way to go, in my opinion --- derived from more than one at-sea test >deployment of emergency gear in the safety device business --- and are not an >option; a copious amount of marine RTV on a "waterproof" switch is not the >equivalent of a "submersible" switch, either. Where do you find a submersible switch? -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> > Where do you find a submersible switch? West Marine (westmarine.com) has a: Chrome-plated single pole switch dipped in vinyl for waterproof integrity. On/Off Model Manufacturer MFG Part # WM Model# Price COLE HERSEE 55036-14-BP 1945971 23.99 Two or three years ago they carried a more expensive switch (sorry, don't remember details) that was rated "submersible," not just "waterproof." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated Wed, 12 Jun 2002 11:59:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: > Where do you find a submersible switch? Bought it at West Marine several years ago. Made by a company in New Jersey. Might be E&B Marine. Can check when at home tomorrow. They make a toggle (on-off) and a push button type switch. Mechanicals all housed inside a pretty robust soft rubber housing. Will work indefinitely under water. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/12/2002 11:59:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: > Where do you find a submersible switch? > Dunno --- was incorrect in my earlier post. The Control Products (CPI) switch I have is not rated as "submersible", but the applications would suggest that their "waterproof" characterization would give the same protection. These switches are encased in rubber or neoprene, and are solid. Can have industrial standards or military standards of protection. Mine came from West Marine --- or maybe one of the other Boats's'Us type shop. Somewhere around $45, three years ago. See their site at << http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/controlproducts/hand.htm>> Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > Where do you find a submersible switch? > > Jack wrote:> Dunno --- was incorrect in my earlier post. Jack, your memory is not faulty. West Marine doesn't seem to carry that switch any more. It does carry some switches (see my earlier post) that are said to be "waterproof," but I suspect this is not the same standard as "submersible." Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I've completed the "chore" of emptying the bags (hic-up!) but am >> having trouble getting the wine scent out of them. A suggestion is to try the sterilising powder used to clean beer bottles by home brewers. It's widely available here in Oz on supermarket shelves. I expect the same is true in the US. ------David Baskett------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I'm trying out the suggestion to use the Box-O-Wine bags > on a 4 day trip coming up in about 10 days. > I've completed the "chore" of emptying the bags (hic-up!) > but am having trouble getting the wine scent out of them. No, don't bother using dish washing liquid, use bleach. I pour a little bleach concentrate in and then fill with water. I leave it for a few hours and rinse a couple of times. Bleach is chlorine so a little "tainting" by that won't matter. The bag's plastic might be inert but it doesn't mean that the residue has been removed or neutralised. No a bad idea to rewash with bleach after leaving the bags empty for a few months between trips. Clears out anything that might have grown in the dark dampness. Also, make up nylon bags to put them in to stop chafe and possibly just a little smaller to take the stress off the the plastic bag. Alex . . Alex (Sandy) Ferguson Chemistry Department University of Canterbury New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hello Rick, I found that a rinse out and then some lemon juice rinsed around will usually do the trick. After a couple of uses and rinse outs the smell will disappear. They also freeze ok. I made some bags (like a shoulder bag) out of canvas with a reinforced hole for the spout thingy to poke out of for mine. Worked really well, easy to carry and you can hang them in a tree or something. Makes them even more versatile. Here in OZ we have 4ltr, 5ltr, and if you go to a pub you may be able to get 20ltr ones. Cheers Wilky ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> > What's next? Rinse with baking soda or something else? I've seen the answer in previous posts regarding >new water carriers of one sort or another, just can't remember the answer and didn't take notes from that >thread. My bad. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In case one abhors the thought of an endless stream of 5 liter bags of cheap swill, buy the wine bags from REI for 3 bucks apiece. They sell a nylon carry bag for 5 bucks. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> > P'Wisers, thanks to prior posts about carrying water, I'm trying out the suggestion to use the Box-O-Wine bags on a 4 day trip coming up in about 10 days. I've completed the "chore" of emptying the bags (hic-up!) but am having trouble getting the wine scent out of them. Try Arm &Hammer Baking Soda *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:29 PDT