Hi, Ive been here about a month and have seen all these messages about rolling and such. For me, its out of the question as I paddle a sit on top kayak until I finish my Chesapeake 18. I was wondering how hard is it to roll, and how do you go about doing it? My guess is use the paddle to push you over while keeping your body pointed straight down, but I am probably wrong. Also how long does it take one to acquire these skills? Thanks for the info, Tom *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Tom, >Ive been here about a month and have seen all these messages about >rolling and such. For me, its out of the question as I paddle a sit on >top kayak until I finish my Chesapeake 18. Actually, you won't find the Chesapeake 18 all that easy to roll. I have the Chesapeake 17, and it's not a real smooth roller. I'd recommend borrowing a whitewater kayak to learn rolling, then transfer your new skills to the Chesapeake. The Ches is a very large kayak, and in your efforts to learn to roll, you might pick up some bad habits. learn to roll the smaller boat with good habits, and get the technique burned into "muscle memory" > My guess is use the paddle to push you over while keeping your body pointed straight down, Ideally, you use the paddle very little--it is a tool to position your body so that your "hip snap" (term used to describe the torso rotation/leg action that actually rights the boat) has the most effect. Think of rolling the boat back under your body, rather than rolling your body up onto the boat. Rolling is not an easy thing to teach yourself to do. My best recommendation is to find a competent instructor who can teach you to roll, or at least get you started on the right track, and give you some pointers to work on that will keep you from developing bad habits. Barring a competent instructor, an incompetent instructor may be better than trying to teach yourself. At least you'll have someone who can flip you upright and save you the hassle of a wet exit with every capsize. Buy the video "Grace under Pressure" or "the Kayak Roll", and the book "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond". Jay Babina also has a video out, but I can't remember its title off the top of my head. Keep your head down. Think of rolling your boat upright, then your body is pulled upright by the boat, then your head is pulled upright by your body. Keep your head down. Practice hipsnaps on the side of a pool or dock. Keep your head on your hands, rotate the boat upside-down, then right-side-up, keeping your head on your hands. At the top of the rotation upward, you will feel the boat pulling your body upward--then and only then, can your body come up. Don't lift your head or body up by yourself, or you'll go back down. keep your head down. >how long does it take one to acquire these skills? Oh, anywhere from 4 hours to 4 years, to a lifetime spent refining the roll once learned! It's well worth it, and I encourage you to pursue this skill!! I learned to roll (in a borrowed WW boat) the winter I was building my Ches. 17. By the time I had the boat finished, I knew how to roll one. Oh, by the way, good hip pads and some knee hooks carved from minicell will make your Chesapeake rolling effort much more positive. Shawn Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Most of Shawn's comments sound on target to me. I would say that on one point he could be wrong depending on the person and some other factors. I won't claim to be right, but will muddy the waters just a little. I learned to roll in an old style C1 (nearly 30 years ago) and soon after switched to an open canoe. I didn't think the larger boat was harder to roll only different. In a big heavy boat like a canoe the roll is at an entirely different pace, much slower. Would Shawn's recommendation of a small ww boat help you? Maybe, but maybe not. I have heard folks say they found a SK to be much easier to roll. In my paddling career I paddled C1's, slalom C1's, ww canoes, old style ww boats, play boats, squirt boats, and creek boats. My roll ranged from bombproof to non existant at various points over the last 30 years. I had the best roll in my open canoe days. I always thought the canoe was easiest and the play boats the hardest. Maybe because I learned the timing of that type of roll first, I really don't know. Most folks say the playboat is easy and the open canoe hard. Pete Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
No brute strength or hip flick is necessary if one comes up laying on the back deck (or starts the wind up/unwind process from there in little steps). It can be done in slow motion with the paddlefloat and with very little effort or strength if done right. That's the point. You can learn how to do it easily with a float. By starting at the end and progressively moving forward and back again you can fairly easily figure out the way that requires very little force since you have plenty of time to experiment and at first you don't even need to put your head underwater. Most folks new to rolling can't understand the concept of hip flick either. I usually just tell them what knee/thigh to pull against the cockpit with to right the kayak. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com -----Original Message----- From: tony ford [mailto:tford_at_web.de] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 10:45 AM To: mkayaks_at_oz.net Subject: Rolling Hello Matt, Whatever the issues with paddle floats, unless you have a reasonable hip flick, a paddle float isnt a great deal of use - a child,especially, is hardly likely to get back in the upright position by brute force (or brawn) alone.... Comments through the group if you will - my access to post mails to the group is limited. Kind regards Tony *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There have been a few occasions that I've wished that the my instructor had a clear kayak for demonstration purposes. It would have made it easy to see all of the mysterious stuff that was happening below the spray skirt. Initial rolling demonstrations were one example of this. --- Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: > No brute strength or hip flick is necessary if one > comes up laying on the > back deck (or starts the wind up/unwind process from > there in little steps). > It can be done in slow motion with the paddlefloat > and with very little > effort or strength if done right. That's the point. > You can learn how to do > it easily with a float. By starting at the end and > progressively moving > forward and back again you can fairly easily figure > out the way that > requires very little force since you have plenty of > time to experiment and > at first you don't even need to put your head > underwater. Most folks new to > rolling can't understand the concept of hip flick > either. I usually just > tell them what knee/thigh to pull against the > cockpit with to right the > kayak. > > Matt Broze > www.marinerkayaks.com > --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There have been a few occasions that I've wished that the my instructor had a clear kayak for demonstration purposes. It would have made it easy to see all of the mysterious stuff that was happening below the spray skirt. Initial rolling demonstrations were one example of this. --- Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: > No brute strength or hip flick is necessary if one > comes up laying on the > back deck (or starts the wind up/unwind process from > there in little steps). > It can be done in slow motion with the paddlefloat > and with very little > effort or strength if done right. That's the point. > You can learn how to do > it easily with a float. By starting at the end and > progressively moving > forward and back again you can fairly easily figure > out the way that > requires very little force since you have plenty of > time to experiment and > at first you don't even need to put your head > underwater. Most folks new to > rolling can't understand the concept of hip flick > either. I usually just > tell them what knee/thigh to pull against the > cockpit with to right the > kayak. > > Matt Broze > www.marinerkayaks.com > --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Derek wrote: > > There have been a few occasions that I've wished that the my > instructor had a clear kayak for demonstration purposes. > --- Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> wrote: > > I usually just tell them what knee/thigh to pull > > against the cockpit with to right the kayak. > > > > Matt Broze The method that Matt was talking about sounds like the same method that Kent Ford demonstrates in his video, The Kayak Roll. I highly recommend it. Steve Holtzman Southern Calif *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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