Nick Schade wrote:- SNIP The value of analyzing the paddle while ignoring the paddler is, the paddle is relatively easy to analyze. (not that it is easy, just easier than trying to generalize about people.) The reason to do it is to separate the performance of the paddle from the performance of the person. SNIP And people just aesthetically like the look and feel of wood and showing some marks of being hand made can add to the enjoyment. SNIP G'Day, Nick as before you have clarified the issues for me, thanks. I can see that breaking up this problem into its components is worthwhile. But what do you do when you have the model of the paddles performance? Once the paddle hydrodynamics have been characterised and the information presented how do you match it to a particular paddler or class of paddlers? I don't believe this can always be done by comparing test results from different paddles by themselves. For example it may require the assumption of linear relationships between the biomechanics/physiology governing paddler behaviours and the physics of the paddle. If I were to make such an assumption it would be a wild guess. When very experienced experimenters, thinkers and craftsmen in this field make that assumption then I respect it. Heres a very rough example Lets say the equations governing:- paddle angle in the water, paddle aspect ratio, paddle area, velocity, acceleration, displacement and force have been worked out. and you want to suggest both a paddle and a paddling style to the paddler. A corresponding set of data for the paddler would be needed. Some of the variables could be addressed by suggesting a range of paddling styles that the paddler can adopt. But not all of them. In fact the very style recommended may depend on the paddlers physical attributes and where they want to travel. So for example it may be necessary to measure and understand what a paddler can achieve in range of movement, the range of force they can exert and for how long, how linear is their force vs energy consumed and at what paddle angles etc. Now John Winters and others are working on the paddle physics and recognise the broad issues with human physiology as far as I can tell from reading the list and without knowing their work. But is anyone working on analysis of the paddler? I genuinely don't know but do feel that it's not an impossible task. Some more examples One might consider modifying a gymnasium kayak (they are not ideal but it could be a start) by adding the appropriate transducers and data loggers. Better still program a haptic kayak (maybe with John Winters data/equations) and use it to research the human/paddle interaction. Haptic stations aren't well enough developed yet to do this but in a few years time!!! One might work with researchers on virtual muscular skeletal systems such as "Torson" http://quokkadev.com/assets/torson/torson.html (usual waivers I have no commercial interest in General Electric or the researchers in South Australia). OK so this isn't going to happen just yet - it may never happen unless someone works on it. Meanwhile if I want a well designed custom paddle I have no recourse but to go to a craftsman. I accept the reasons for craftsmanship which Nick Schade presented but I would go to the craftsman not just because of the aesthetics/human factors but also because of the limitations in our formal understanding of kayaking biomechanics. A good craftaman will have the knowledge locked up in his head after many years of experience, observation and thought. This data is possibly incapable of analysis but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Brave New World In 2020 at 70 years old I hope to go to my local kayak shop and ask for a custom paddle for the 100km Hawkesbury Classic. They will download all my parameters from the haptic kayak at my gym. (Maybe the haptic kayak will use equations generated by John Winters together with parameters derived from a virtual reality human model). The retailer then emails my specification to their computer aided manufacturing facility (run by my mate the craftsman who adds his own intuitive touches to the design while interacting with the computer) and to the sports physio who sets up a training program. And I'll for the first time manage to complete the race!!! If anyone has got this far thanks for listening, All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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