I couldn't find anything to disagree with in what John Winters wrote about paddles. While I'm a very "feel" oriented guy and usually trust my kinesthetic senses a lot, I especially liked John's point about not going with your feelings when judging a kayaks speed. You can feel how hard you are working but you can't really feel accurately how fast you are going. Even though many think they can, they are often fooled by using ease of acceleration (or other factors) that aren't applicable to judge the speed. To accurately know your speed you need some measuring device. It can be as simple as a watch (and a fixed distance), which is my usual technique. BTW Steve, I'm just as fast (over a short distance anyhow) if I have had several minutes rest as I was the first time (using the same kayak and in the same conditions). The hull speed of the kayak pretty much dictates what my time will be if I'm pushing as hard as I can. Wind, water temperature, or current are all things that you will need to be concerned with when trying to make speed comparisons though. However, you can calculate the differences due to water temperature (and salt or freshwater differences, although they are a lot less dramatic) if you time yourself over the same distance at different times of the year, like I do. I figure it works out to about 2.5% slower for every ten degrees F. of temperature decrease). With all John's explanations in mind, I still can't figure out why the paddler made almost the same distance per stroke without also using more energy to go faster (when using a higher stroke rate with the narrower blade). It just doesn't compute. It takes a given amount of energy to move a given kayak at a given speed though the water. If you move it faster that takes more energy. If more energy wasn't expended then the Lendahl paddle must be somehow wasting a lot more of the energy that went into it than the Whetstone paddle did. What John wrote would seem to point to the wider (lower aspect ratio) blades as being more efficient not less? Years ago a Werner Paddles brochure claimed that their high aspect ratio blade gripped the water better (if I recall correctly, due to the longer edge perimeter) but then later in the same brochure they credited the same narrow blades with being easier on the shoulders (presumably because, as is the common knowledge--but I'm not sure about), they slip more in the water to cushion the load on the shoulder. I still don't think they can have it both ways. Am I missing something here? Any more ideas on how each stroke can move the boat the same distance but one paddle is easier than the other so that more strokes can be taken to move the kayak faster using the same effort? Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:24 AM 7/23/02 -0700, Matt Broze wrote: >I couldn't find anything to disagree with in what John Winters wrote about >paddles. While I'm a very "feel" oriented guy and usually trust my >kinesthetic senses a lot, I especially liked John's point about not going >with your feelings when judging a kayaks speed. You can feel how hard you >are working but you can't really feel accurately how fast you are going. >Even though many think they can, they are often fooled by using ease of >acceleration (or other factors) that aren't applicable to judge the speed. I had a good example of that last night. I've been paddling my new Outer Island for a couple of weeks now and one of the things I felt about it was that it didn't feel as fast as other boats I've paddled. I went out with a couple of friends to get in some self/assisted rescue practice as a storm front was blowing in. One of them was paddling his Arctic Hawk, the other in a Kevlar Seaward Endeavor. The guy in a Hawk is a very strong paddler and typically I have to work to keep up with him. Last night I felt like I wasn't working hard at all and had no trouble sticking with him. I'm not sure how hard he was paddling but it was into a pretty stiff wind so I doubt that he was taking it easy. Apparently my new boat is faster than I felt it was. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:24 AM 7/23/02 -0700, Matt Broze wrote: >Any more ideas on how each stroke can move the >boat the same distance but one paddle is easier than the other so that more >strokes can be taken to move the kayak faster using the same effort? The only thing I can think of is that boat speed through the water must have something to do with it. When the boat speed is low and the paddler is applying lots of effort, the higher aspect ration blade with more slippage is not going to be as efficient. However, as boat speed increases to the point where its closer to the paddle speed, slippage becomes less of a factor -- or, at least, so I surmise. Going back to my other post, where I talked about paddling into a steep wind, would this account for the high stroke rate and not going anywhere? Again, just guessing blindly into the face of people that know what they're talking about. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
G'day, Two of my paddles are the same length from blade tip to blade tip. One is approximately 20x6 inches blade size, the other about 18x7.5. Their geometry is different. Both have similar degrees of curvature but the 20x6 blade curves more at the tip. The 20x6 blade is much more rounded on the corners and tilts slightly back away from the shaft. It also leaks a bit and is heavier at the end of a days paddle than the 20x6 paddle. I paddle with a very vertical stroke, my friends with a much flatter stroke. I have low upper body strength my friends have relatively high upper body strength (one of them constantly lifts racing boats every day as part of his job). I paddle with a slow cadence they paddle with a faster cadence and faster boat speed through the water. Despite the leak in the 20x6 blade paddle, we all of us would rather use it than the 18x7.5 blade. We don't always agree about paddling technique but each of us find the 18x7.5 is much harder work and just doesn't feel right. In this case it seems the paddle shape, rather than curvature or area or paddling style, determines the ease of paddling. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "PeterO" <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au> > and tilts slightly back away from the shaft. It also leaks a bit and is > heavier at the end of a days paddle than the 20x6 paddle. Perhaps this is a 4 piece paddle. The leakage problem can be solved according to the manufacturer (Werner) with special plugs and a change in the pop button holding the blades to the shaft. Take a look at the pop button. If it has a tiny slit in it at the base it may be bringing in water...just tear drops but each stroke will let one in and that can add up. But the leak may also be at the joining point of the male and female connections of shaft pieces at the blades. My 4 piece from this manufacturer leaks lots...in a course of an hour or so you can get half a cup of water at each end...that's an added 4 ounces at each end. I have the new plugs and new pop buttons (without that slit) but that particular paddle is with a Kahuna I keep assembled at a boathouse that I have not been to in two weeks. When I get up there I will experiment to see if this improves things. I have another 4-piece paddle, a proprietary Feathercraft one made for them by Aquabound at the time (now I think Nimbus manufactures the Feathercraft paddles). I have tested it after 4 hours of paddling in lots of wake and waves (which meant the ends of the paddle would wind up deeper in the water than in paddling on flatter water) and had perhaps a thimble of water at each end. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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