With respect to fibreglass boats, is it important to space the roof racks so that they are directly under the bulkheads? I am planning to attach rack mounts to the poptop on my Westfalia tommorow. I do have some flexibility on where these mounts are located, but once the holes are drilled, they are permanent. 68" spacing would place the bars under bulkheads perfectly, but i'd also like to be able to use my bike carriers which require 48" spacing or less. So...how important is rack spacing for fibreglass kayaks??? Thx, Eric ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.caa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Perhaps its too late for you Eric and you've already drilled your holes in your Westfalia, but here are my thoughts: it is important to put the bars under the kayak bulkheads. To get around the problem of wanting both bikes and kayaks up there, my solution was to install after-market permanent rain gutters on my 93 Westfalia Weekender (the poptop of which is not designed to handle such loads/stresses). The racks/space bars can then be adjusted to any spacing, and they are extremely strong (disadvantages: gutters were painstakingly obtained from from Germany, and racks must be removed to raise the poptop). I then use a 2-inch trailer hitch and Graber 4-bike hitch mount to carry bikes off the back of the van (much easier to access bikes than putting them on top). Note: despite having my Romany Elite bulkheads over the bars of a Yakima system, I still can eventually get temporary dimples in the hull of the kayak on hot days/after long rides (something that bugs me a lot - but also something that may be a lot worse if the kayak is not mounted with bars below bulkheads). BTW - before I went this route, I did try the route you are trying - and now have the Yakima mounting brackets left on the poptop as a permanent reminder - oh well. Good luck. Mike Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:07:18 -0700 From: "Eric Unrau" <eunrau_at_yahoo.ca> Subject: [Paddlewise] Roof Rack Spacing - Fibreglass Kayaks With respect to fibreglass boats, is it important to space the roof racks so that they are directly under the bulkheads? I am planning to attach rack mounts to the poptop on my Westfalia tommorow. I do have some flexibility on where these mounts are located, but once the holes are drilled, they are permanent. 68" spacing would place the bars under bulkheads perfectly, but i'd also like to be able to use my bike carriers which require 48" spacing or less. So...how important is rack spacing for fibreglass kayaks??? Thx, Eric *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike Wolf <michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com> wrote: > Perhaps its too late for you Eric and you've already drilled your holes in your > Westfalia, but here are my thoughts: it is important to put the bars under the > kayak bulkheads. My first reaction to Mike's recommendation was: "Bosh! Been yarding my FG yaks around for years without worrying about bulkhead/rack bar coincidence!" Then I recalled some new gel coat cracks induced by Bruno-strength tightening when one was on a padded straight-bar, nonsaddled Zodiac rack in the Charlottes ... and some old ones at the stern (on a light Eddyline layup) right where the yak fits the saddles. No structural damage I know of, but ... Almost all of the rack time of my FG yaks has been on quality Yakima saddles, with as much hull support as most rack systems provide. The problem areas have been way aft or way forward, where the saddle systems do not conform so well to the hull profile. Perversely, the hull of my light layup Wind Dancer shows no gel coat cracks at the forward strap location, which is way aft of the bulkhead, and and where the yak is of largest cross section. Good fit to the saddles? Don't know. Go figure? Probably. I think Mike has a good point, especially if the vehicle sees time on very rough roads. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Perversely, the hull of my light > layup Wind Dancer shows no gel coat cracks at the forward strap location, > which is way aft of the bulkhead, and and where the yak is of largest cross > section. Good fit to the saddles? Don't know. Go figure? Probably. I have a kevlar Wind Dancer. The rack bars on my Westfalia are on either side of the cockpit. No cracks to date. I have a Saris rack and saddles. On the Wind Dancer, the bars under the bulkhead really does not apply because it has foam bulkheads. The foam bulkheads do a good job of keeping the water out but they do not do very much in terms of keeping the hull ridged. My yak has developed two 5" gel coat cracks centered on either side of the leading edge of the rear hatch. I got those from doing paddle float rescues. The foam rear bulkhead let the rear deck pancake in a little to far. So far I have removed the rear foam bulkhead and getting ready to replace it with a 6mm plywood one. Adding a second one back there too so that I will have a bulkhead on either side supporting me when I slide up on the rear deck. I also get a day hatch with this modification. Jan Mason td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've always been told that Kevlar boats are more prone to this. When I got my Kevlar Arctic Hawk I thought the rear deck oilcanned to an alarming degree. It just didn't look right to me. Based on a complete ignorance of the subject as it relates to this boat, I made a gunwale to gunwale structural foam unit out of 2" ethafoam, that runs from the rear bulkhead to almost the lip of the rear hatch. It locks together once in position and is fairly removable if the need arises. I also reinforced the bulkheads with 2" ethafoam on each side, and a cental pillar running down the cockpit. That was full length until I found out that even my avg. size 9 feet could move even a half each once I was in the boat. Now there's 16 " of open space around the foot braces again. Did it help? Sure doesn't oil can anymore, and I feel a lot better about it, but it's now a wee bit short on storage. Kevin Jan Mason writes: I have a kevlar Wind Dancer. The rack bars on my Westfalia are on either side of the cockpit. No cracks to date. I have a Saris rack and saddles. On the Wind Dancer, the bars under the bulkhead really does not apply because it has foam bulkheads. The foam bulkheads do a good job of keeping the water out but they do not do very much in terms of keeping the hull ridged. My yak has developed two 5" gel coat cracks centered on either side of the leading edge of the rear hatch. I got those from doing paddle float rescues. The foam rear bulkhead let the rear deck pancake in a little to far. So far I have removed the rear foam bulkhead and getting ready to replace it with a 6mm plywood one. (snipped) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jan <td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com> wrote: >> I have a kevlar Wind Dancer. The rack bars on my Westfalia are on either side of the cockpit. No cracks to date. [snip]. My yak has developed two 5" gel coat cracks centered on either side of the leading edge of the rear hatch. I got those from doing paddle float rescues. The foam rear bulkhead let the rear deck pancake in a little to far. >> I agree with Jan that the foam bulkheads (about 1/2 inch thick bluefoam) in our Wind Dancers provide little structural support. I had similar gel coat cracks on the back deck, from paddlefloat rescue practice (I usually hump myself onto the back deck and then work my way across the paddle shaft en route to the cockpit). A buddy's polyester/glass layup WD, same deal as mine, had similar cracks. We judged the problem was a too-light lay-up, so we adhered a couple layers of 6 oz glass with epoxy on the underside of the deck. Stiffened things up well, and only added a few ounces of weight. Jan's repairs seemed more extensive, and maybe the lighter layup of a Kevlar boat demands that. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All this talk about gel coat cracks from the lack of structural support makes me wonder why my Romany has developed cracks at, or near, the point of contact between the bulkheads (all three) on both the deck and hull. There is plenty of structural support from the fiberglass bulkhead--maybe too much support? My boat is about 6 years old, and sees year round use on Lake Michigan, as well as the occasional trip to Lake Superior, the Florida Gulf coast and the Georgia coast. I just repaired the really bad "impact" damaged areas on the hull, but I'm debating on whether to grind out the aforementioned bulkhead location cracks--believing that it would be a futile attempt to repair without figuring out the cause. While I do a lot of teaching, I don't think that all those rescues are at fault. Anyone have any ideas and/or suggestions? John Browning www.wildernessconnection.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Monday 22 July 2002 10:12 pm, you wrote: > All this talk about gel coat cracks from the lack of structural support > makes me wonder why my Romany has developed cracks at, or near, the point > of contact between the bulkheads (all three) on both the deck and hull. > There is plenty of structural support from the fiberglass bulkhead--maybe > too much support? > > My boat is about 6 years old, and sees year round use on Lake Michigan, as > well as the occasional trip to Lake Superior, the Florida Gulf coast and > the Georgia coast. > > I just repaired the really bad "impact" damaged areas on the hull, but I'm > debating on whether to grind out the aforementioned bulkhead location > cracks--believing that it would be a futile attempt to repair without > figuring out the cause. While I do a lot of teaching, I don't think that > all those rescues are at fault. > > Anyone have any ideas and/or suggestions? > > John Browning > www.wildernessconnection.com Take a look at the book "The Boat Repair Manual by George Buchanan. Go to Chapter 5, Fiberglass Hulls. It has a number of good write ups on stress cracking and stress at the bulkheads. Also lots of good drawings. For example: "If a decision is made to remove and rebond a bulkhead, make sure that there is a gap at the perimeter of the bulkhead. This should be filled with a foam insert, before applying the fiberglass attachment flanges. This ensures that in the event of a severe localized impact the hull is supported by the flanges, and not by the rigid bulkhead. It does not however, inhibit the primary function of the bulkhead, which is to maintain the strength and symmetry of the hull." Between the text and the drawings he gets the points across very well. I am in the processing of replacing the foam bulkheads on my Kevlar Eddyline Wind Dancer. I am using 6mm marine plywood with fiberglass and epoxy. The extra weight is not an issue with me. I have gel coat cracks on my rear deck and I want to fix the source of the problem. In my case, instead of using the polyurethane foam between the bulkhead and the hull, I am using 3M 5200 sealant. From there I will build out the hull to bulkhead corners with foam then bond them together with fibergass/epoxy. The key thing is the foam or sealant between the hull and the bulkhead. There will be a little give at the joint because of the foam/sealant and the stress will be spread out on either side of the bulkhead by the fiberglass flanges. In my case, I am putting in two plywood bulkheads under the rear deck so I will have good hull support for doing paddle float rescues. My other concern is fixing the source of my current stress cracks and not getting new ones because I have switched from foam to plywood bulkheads. I am in the process of replacing the bulkheads right now. I have not tried this before. Get a second and third option on this procedure before starting. I like the pictures on your web site. Use to live up there. I like the weather better down here in Tampa, FL. Jan Mason td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave said: <snip> <<< Almost all of the rack time of my FG yaks has been on quality Yakima saddles, with as much hull support as most rack systems provide. The problem areas have been way aft or way forward, where the saddle systems do not conform so well to the hull profile. Perversely, the hull of my light layup Wind Dancer shows no gel coat cracks at the forward strap location, which is way aft of the bulkhead, and and where the yak is of largest cross section. Good fit to the saddles? Don't know. Go figure? Probably. >>>> Then there's my boat...and sometimes I worry that my kayak might be too much for my Yak racks. DL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tuesday 23 July 2002 02:17 am, you wrote: > Dave said: > <snip> > <<< > Almost all of the rack time of my FG yaks has been on quality Yakima > saddles, with as much hull support as most rack systems provide. The > problem areas have been way aft or way forward, where the saddle systems > do not conform so well to the hull profile. Perversely, the hull of my > light layup Wind Dancer shows no gel coat cracks at the forward strap > location, which is way aft of the bulkhead, and and where the yak is of > largest cross section. Good fit to the saddles? Don't know. Go > figure? Probably. > > > Then there's my boat...and sometimes I worry that my kayak might be too > much for my Yak racks. > DL I use a Saris rack system. http://www.graberproducts.com/ The kayak saddles are flexable. The straps run on the outside of the saddles and the saddles conform to the shape of the kayak's hull. Perfect fit every time. Jan Mason td376_at_mail.anonymizer.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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