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From: Bemis, Scott E. <SEBemis_at_bemis.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Sponsons, information on Potomac Management Group, Inc; www.poto macmgmt.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:46:11 -0600
Details on this company are at www.potomacmgmt.com. 
Please consider just removing the word sponsons after the original posting.


And with a little more time, additional, independent information can be
obtained about Potomac Management Group Inc.  There are numerous public
records as this is an incorporated company.  This information is available
to us, the public, in the U.S.A.  This means, we, kayakers, may have to
spend a little more time than desired on land, doing a little work if we
desire this information.  And given of more time and the Freedom of
Information act (any newspaper or TV reporters out there), we can get the
contract from the U.S. Coast Guard.  I am assuming the effects of September
11 has not affected this flow of information and I could be wrong.   

I realize some of the hostility of sponsons in the kayaking crowd.  I
believe some of the hostility may be due to very poor marketing by a
particular person.  I also have a tremendous respect for Matt Broze as I
have read (and continue to re-read a book he co-authored about sea kayaker's
mistakes, and unfortunately fatal). 

With these notes, why are experienced sea kayakers so hostile to the mere
mention of the word "sponsons"?  I realize sponsons are not a replacement
for experience, good judgment, practice with rolling, etc.  However, when
discussing potential kayak rescues, this hostility is unwarranted in my
opinions.  I have not faced this hostility when discussing different kayak
rescues, for example, paddle float rescues.     




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From: Chuck Holst <cholst_at_bitstream.net>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Sponsons, information on Potomac Management Group, Inc; www.poto macmgmt.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:41:22 -0600
Scott Bemis asked:

>>
With these notes, why are experienced sea kayakers so hostile to the mere
mention of the word "sponsons"?
>>

Scott, it's not sponsons members of Paddlewise are hostile to so much as 
Tim and the way he promotes them. I think the word "sponson" is avoided 
partly in jest, partly to prevent Tim from using search engines to find 
discussions on the subject to quote from. (I'm one of those Tim has quoted 
on his Web site without permission.) Paddlewise was founded as a moderated 
list to get away from the acrimonious sponson debates that had become 
endemic on the Wavelength list, in which Tim quoted out of context, twisted 
logic, and even accused his opponents of murder in frequent and excessively 
lengthy posts that repeated the same arguments over and over again ad 
nauseam. In the early days of Paddlewise, in Tim's absence, there was a 
relatively unheated, objective discussion about sponsons in which several 
people said they found them useful for certain limited types of kayaking 
activity, but in which no one seemed to think they were a panacea. You can 
find that discussion on the Paddlewise Web site.

The problem with Tim is that he is religiously fanatic about sponsons. He 
honestly believes that sponsons are necessary to kayaking safety, 
tendentiously discounts alternatives such as rolling and paddle float 
rescues, and has tried to persuade the Coast Guard to make them legally 
mandated equipment.

Have you ever had a religious fanatic tell you you were going to Hell 
unless you accepted his particular uninformed interpretation of the Bible? 
(There was one preaching on the corner across from Williams Arena as the 
crowd left the Wellstone memorial service Tuesday night. "Boy, is he 
preaching to the wrong crowd," said Linda.) That's what Tim is like. His 
Web site will give you a little of the flavor; I'm sure you can find the 
URL.

In the absence of any explanation to the contrary, I and other Paddlewisers 
justifiably believe Kait O'Hara's research for the Coast Guard is due to 
Tim's efforts to make his sponsons mandatory equipment. While I applaud her 
effort -- however uninformed -- to make a balanced report, I do think that 
if she would like the genuinely useful expertise and cooperation of the 
kayakers on Paddlewise, she should explain to us the purpose of her 
research, and its context and methodology (apparently the Word summary and 
spreadsheet based on the Paddlewise discussion are to be supplements to a 
longer report). I also recommend that she educate herself about sea 
kayaking by at least reading a few books and viewing some videotapes on the 
subject (it's probably a bit late in the season to take up the sport, 
though maybe not to take a class).

For our part, I think it would be to our advantage as sea kayakers to help 
her as much as possible to understand the subject rather than meet her with 
hostility.

Chuck Holst


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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Sponsons, information on Potomac Management Group, Inc; www.poto macmgmt.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:10:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: Chuck Holst <cholst_at_bitstream.net>

<snip>
> In the absence of any explanation to the contrary, I and other Paddlewisers 
> justifiably believe Kait O'Hara's research for the Coast Guard is due to 
> Tim's efforts to make his sponsons mandatory equipment. 

<snip>
> For our part, I think it would be to our advantage as sea kayakers to help 
> her as much as possible to understand the subject rather than meet her with 
> hostility.


I think most here would agree with your second statement if we could
only get answers to the first.  Ms. O'Hara has been at this for a
month or more now.  As far as I can tell, she never answered the
question on rec.boats.paddle, either.


cheers,

jackie
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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons, information on Potomac Management Group, Inc;www.poto macmgmt.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:23:32 -0500
Scott, the strong negative opinions you have observed many experienced paddlers
holding toward sponsons rather than other rescue equipment is because the
sponsons are embuggerances that are not particularly useful,and present
significant risks.

1.  Sponsons will not prevent capsizes in rough seas.

2.  Sponsons can not be installed seas rough enough to cause a capsize.

3.  Sponsons create a false sense of security in inexperienced paddlers, who
will paddle in bad conditions with the expectation that sponsons will prevent
them from capsizing or will be useful in re-entering upon capsizing.

4.  Sponsons are bulky, thus taking up space in very small craft that would be
better used for useful rescue and survival equipment.

5.  Sponsons present an entanglement risk to persons trying to re-enter in rough
water.

6.  The only thing that sponsons do is widen the boat, however, wide boats
already exist.

7.  Sponsons installed prior to entering the water harm the performance of the
boat, just as do training wheels on a bicycle.

Cheers,
Richard Culpeper



"Bemis, Scott E." wrote:

> With these notes, why are experienced sea kayakers so hostile to the mere
> mention of the word "sponsons"?  I realize sponsons are not a replacement
> for experience, good judgment, practice with rolling, etc.  However, when
> discussing potential kayak rescues, this hostility is unwarranted in my
> opinions.  I have not faced this hostility when discussing different kayak
> rescues, for example, paddle float rescues.

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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sponsons, information on Potomac Management Group, Inc;www.poto macmgmt.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:33:34 -0500
And of course the primary reason that sponsons should not be used is that the
most effective way to deal with a capsize is to stay in the boat, roll up, and
continue paddling, rather than leaving the boat and risk drowning, not being
able to re-enter, etc.  Sponsons make rolling up more difficult.  With regard to
inexerienced paddlers, one would expect that sponsons would be the straw that
breaks the camel's back when attempting to roll up in rough conditions.

Check out Rich Kulawiek's post as to why sponsons are completely useless to
white water paddlers.  Those very same reasons apply to sea kayaking because
there is no difference between white water kayaking and sea kayaking in rough
conditions in which capsize is possible.

Cheers,
Richard Culpeper

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