Steve Holtzman wrote: >> Has Dr. Peregrine Inverbon had anything to say concerning sp*ns*ns, Timmy, and the USCG? Bob said: >Regretfully, neither Dr. Inverbon nor John Winters has been seen around these parts for several months. I believe John's email >address started failing in August for unknown reasons, so he's not on this list currently. John's probably on the lamb from the tax man - the Canadian Tax Man, a very overbearing, overburdening beast indeed. Then again, maybe his business did well and he is off on some tropical island observing scantily clad young things or thriving in the US tax structure. Another thought is that Kaitlin O'Hara is actually John's alter ego -- some kind of elaborate hoax perpetrated on paddlewise by the grinning Peregrine himself (the only other alternative is that "Scarlet" of Potomac is actually Timmy hatching up some kind of weird plot; or the less unthinkable, Kirk our list administrator trying to jazz up what was a slow couple of weeks on paddlewise recently!). Well frankly, I don't give a damn (about sponsons, that is, as I've hot-aired enough with my late night obscure rant). But as for certified Canadian Ballast Rocks, I was one of the original developers of them in the early 80's, bagging them in long cylindrical VCP gear bags for storm-paddling ballast; or even using multiple five-pounders straight off the local beach, beach-to-hatch for impromptu hurricane-force wind paddling (do not do this in a commercial North American kayak). They work great for landscaping and NAFTA demonstrations, too. And I must say, while my "emission" standards are much lower than California's, our Canadian Ballast Rocks really rock man, and totally rule over the inferior american counterpart. Just don't try selling them up here, the tax structure will suck the life right out of you. I do hope John is doing well -- or moved to the USA; or even perhaps partershipping with the Canadian Coast Guard high in the Arctic developing Inuit-based technology, seal-skinned sponsons with grant money from Ottawa's deep treasury robbed from fellow Canadians. Okay, enough. Doug Lloyd (who gave new meaning to the term Rock n' Roll -- way before the Aussie clubs did) :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Holtzman wrote: >> Has Dr. Peregrine Inverbon had anything to say concerning sp*ns*ns, Timmy, and the USCG? Bob said: >Regretfully, neither Dr. Inverbon nor John Winters has been seen around these parts for several months. I believe John's email >address started failing in August for unknown reasons, so he's not on this list currently. John's probably on the lamb from the tax man - the Canadian Tax Man, a very overbearing, overburdening beast indeed. Then again, maybe his business did well and he is off on some tropical island observing scantily clad young things or thriving in the US tax structure. Another thought is that Kaitlin O'Hara is actually John's alter ego -- some kind of elaborate hoax perpetrated on paddlewise by the grinning Peregrine himself (the only other alternative is that "Scarlet" of Potomac is actually Timmy hatching up some kind of weird plot; or the less unthinkable, Kirk our list administrator trying to jazz up what was a slow couple of weeks on paddlewise recently!). Well frankly, I don't give a damn (about sponsons, that is, as I've hot-aired enough with my late night obscure rant). But as for certified Canadian Ballast Rocks, I was one of the original developers of them in the early 80's, bagging them in long cylindrical VCP gear bags for storm-paddling ballast; or even using multiple five-pounders straight off the local beach, beach-to-hatch for impromptu hurricane-force wind paddling (do not do this in a commercial North American kayak). They work great for landscaping and NAFTA demonstrations, too. And I must say, while my "emission" standards are much lower than California's, our Canadian Ballast Rocks really rock man, and totally rule over the inferior american counterpart. Just don't try selling them up here, the tax structure will suck the life right out of you. I do hope John is doing well -- or moved to the USA; or even perhaps partershipping with the Canadian Coast Guard high in the Arctic developing Inuit-based technology, seal-skinned sponsons with grant money from Ottawa's deep treasury robbed from fellow Canadians. Okay, enough. Doug Lloyd (who gave new meaning to the term Rock n' Roll -- way before the Aussie clubs did) :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Could it be I was the first kayaker to employ ballast rocks to stand up in a kayak? Back in 1981 I was starting to sell a 20.5” kayak that a local kayak dealer was telling other paddlers was very tippy. We took advantage of a kayaking photo contest his store was sponsoring (that posted all the entered photos on a store wall) to enter several pictures of myself standing calmly in this “tippy” kayak. Needless to say I’m not impressed that Timmy can stand up in a much wider kayak using spontoons. (I am, however, impressed by Nigel Foster’s ability to stand and perform other activities in even tippier kayaks using neither ballast rocks or those inflatable water plows for an additional measure of stabilization.) I also made some spontoons in 1981 by using float bags inside of some sleeping bag stuff sacks on which I had sewn some fittings to attach them to the kayak. I did this to test the spontoon concept both for sleeping or resting at sea, and for self rescue. (I used to kid my then wife I was working on these so I could go to Hawaii and then paddle one of our kayaks back to Seattle for the publicity—choosing this direction because the west coast of North America was a far bigger target to aim for than Hawaii). I abandoned the inflatable sponson approach due to the serious drag they added to the hull (if pulled down enough into the water to significantly improve stability) and the added time they took to deploy as well as their limited additional stability for self rescues compared to a fixed outrigger paddle float rescue. We have pictures of me using these (in fact I think I probably still have the spontoons somewhere in the bottom of some old kayaking equipment box). I point this out in case anyone out there would like to work on designing sponsons that might work better than any presently available but is concerned about patent claims and might need some “prior art” to invalidate even the legitimate claims of overzealous promoters who might try to claim that kayak sponsons are “patented” by them when in fact the specificity of the patent claims limits it considerably. Now I have evidence of such specific parts such as a long inflation tube and fastening the inflatable sponsons under the kayaks hull to hold them down in the water (both specifics claimed in the patent) have been done before. Anyone who would like to see Timmy’s patent claims can find them at: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/net ahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft90&s1=sponson&s2=Ingram&OS=s ponson+AND+Ingram&RS=sponson+AND+Ingram <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/ne tahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft90&s1=sponson&s2=Ingram&OS= sponson+AND+Ingram&RS=sponson+AND+Ingram> It is patent #4,838,196. Born, raised and still living in Seattle (but as usual going against the flow by remaining Latte free). Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com <http://www.marinerkayaks.com/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt wrote: - >I point this out in case anyone out there >would like to work on designing sponsons >that might work better than any presently >available but is concerned about patent claims G'Day, Earliest documented use of sponsons might be for the film "Cockle Shell Heros" made in 1955. As far as I can tell the double kayaks used in the film seem to have something, which looks awfully like a set of sponsons. Whatever they were they didn't stop Trevor Howard from nearly drowning in a capsize. The film is based on the World War II effort to use kayaks to plant mines on warships docked at Bordeaux. The book "Cockle Shell Hero's", seems to be a factual account of the raid and gives a fairly detailed account of the kayak construction. I can't remeber if it mentions sponsons being part of the kayaks used for the wartime raid. Does anyone know? All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt, Glad you are Latte free in the Emerald City. Hey, I was poking through the latest Sea Kayaker quickly at the book stand (I get mine in another week in the mail) and thought I noticed a paddlefloat with some kind of reservoir for water to counterbalance the "rainbow" effect. I faithfully carried my Mariner Outrigger for years in the early 80's, the one using the collapsible water container you designed, which provided the counterbalance effect. You should have patented that, as it looks like something similar (in principle) is back in vogue. Hey Matt, what's with Scott Bemis? He said, "If sponson-opposed sea kayaker starts ranting upon noticing your sponsons, the following may work..." The rest was rather rude. I thought most of the posts on sponsons, like Richard's et al, were fairly objective -- and fair to the sponson's drawbacks. Those that found they worked great for them, spoke up cogently. (Those who ranted were mainly upset with TimTimminyTimTimmminy...). As far as Kait, she told me back channel that she was hired to conduct a preliminary search (including groups like paddlewise) for information about the use of sponsons INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN OF CANOES AND KAYAKS, and that MANDATORY sponsons were not going to be an outcome. I'm not fully aware yet if this is a case trying to be made for flotation, which I would fully support. She gave me the project manager's phone number with the Coast Guard, and I will be phoning him next week. Anyway, it is kind of ironic that paddlewise was set up to get away from Timmy's spam, and here we are talking about sponsons all over again (Jackie, can you forgive us? :-). Well, I answer to no man, but my woman is calling me back upstairs and is prepared once again to pull my modem cord, so I better turn this computer off for a while. Talk and rant to you all again later man. Doug - who has gotta go spend some time finding out how stinky I can get in a drysuit, compared to a wet suit. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > . . . As far as Kait, she told me back channel that she was hired to conduct > a preliminary search (including groups like paddlewise) for information about > the use of sponsons INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN OF CANOES AND KAYAKS, and > that MANDATORY sponsons were not going to be an outcome. Sounds like a Sportspal canoe.. In which case, it's time for a Sportspal story . . . The Parable of the Sportspal ----------------------------- In the summer of ^Ñ94 a kindly senior decided to give her grandson's canoe to the Sudbury Canoe Club. She had considered turning it into a planter, but since she was selling her home, she thought it would be easier to have the canoe removed than to have the fill delivered (in Sudbury we order-in soil). We never asked what her grandson thought of the matter, for one should never look a gift boat down the keel. Instead, we simply assumed that like any typical Sudbury grandson, this one could not have come to any good, and was best left out of the decision loop concerning his own canoe. We moved the boat to the clubhouse, where alongside the C-15, the K-4, and various shells from more than one Olympics, it sat with pride and dignity -- a SPORTSPAL, the toxic waste of the canoe world. We tried using it for the learn to paddle program, but the participants laughed at it. We tried using it for the kids^Ò day camp program, but the tykes only kicked it. We tried giving it away to a swift water rescue technician for a pin boat, but he was worried about being brought up on environmental charges. Truly, this is a boat which no one wanted. Then came the great hospital charity challenge. Every year the Sudbury General uses our recreational boats for a round-the-mark race -- a day of fun paddling competition among the hospital staff. This summer one of the competitors had a most unsporting idea. She wanted to train a race crew and run with a Balmy Beach Cruiser -- a classic C-4. Out training before the sun, up and back Lake Ramsey. This was a crew with promise, for along with two other nurses, the cox had selected a priest for her crew. The day of the big event grew near. The recreational boats were towed from the club to the main beach, a natural amphitheatre which has been a popular canoe spotting site since Bill Beaton, the Mayor of Sudbury, used to sprint his C-1 up and back in front of the townsfolk wearing no more than an athletic supporter. (Yes, as you might have guessed, this is why he was elected Mayor, is why paddling is so popular in Sudbury, and is why grandsons from Sudbury can never come to any good.) Word must have got out about the ringer crew and boat, for at the last minute the Cruiser was disqualified. Lots were drawn for boats, and mysteriously the Cruiser's crew drew, as you well can guess, the Sportspal. The fix was in, but somehow it was against the Cruiser's crew. The gun was fired, the crews set off, the crowd cheered. Although the Sportspal did not move too quickly, it did make it out to the buoy before it went all the way under. Not bad, considering it had nearly been a flower planter. Of course this was a Boeotian consolation for the crew, who had trained so hard and had hopes so high. It also left the problem as to how to return a submerged boat to shore, for while old Sportspals may not float, they also do not entirely sink. They are something like the Civil War's Monitor class. The good officers of the Ontario Provincial Police came to the rescue in their chase boat. They pulled up to the submerged Sportspal and kindly asked if they might be of assistance. It was then that a miracle took place. As the police approached, the priest in his cassock stood up. Some might say that he was standing on a submerged Sportspal, but those of us who were there, and who had witnessed the mysterious disqualification of the Cruiser and the even more mysterious drawing of the Sportspal, saw the truth from several hundred yards away. The priest was walking on water. The lowest of boats, an unwanted Sportspal, found its place in destiny as part of another Northern miracle. Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:58:02 -0800, "Doug Lloyd" <dougl_at_islandnet.com> said: > Hey Matt, what's with Scott Bemis? He said, "If sponson-opposed sea > kayaker starts ranting upon noticing your sponsons, the following may > work..." The rest was rather rude. Mr. Bemis, subsequently decided the rest of the thread was rude or incoherant and decided to go find another sandbox to play in, he has unsubscribed. -- http://fastmail.fm - The holy hand grenade of email services *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Doug Lloyd <dougl_at_islandnet.com> > set up to get away from Timmy's spam, and here we are talking about > sponsons all over again (Jackie, can you forgive us? :-). PaddleWise was set up so that we *could* discuss sponsons.... without Tim's spam and abusive rantings. cheers, jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 08:48:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_muddypuppies.com> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] CG sp*ns*ns investigation (and ballast rocks) > From: Doug Lloyd <dougl_at_islandnet.com> > set up to get away from Timmy's spam, and here we are talking about > sponsons all over again (Jackie, can you forgive us? :-). PaddleWise was set up so that we *could* discuss sponsons....without Tim's spam and abusive rantings. cheers, jackie ----------------------------- Thanks Jackie! I kind of know that. I guess I was trying to make a broad concession in a round about way to the folks on the list who might be annoyed with the sponson threads. The last time we had a go round on this subject, there was some dismay noted from a number of quarters. But I suppose those folks, like as with any other thread they don't want to read, can simply deleate/pass by -- just like one does with their TV channel button. As mentioned before (changing lanes here), I did get a backchannel reply from Kaitlin, with a fuller explanation and contact names. I wonder if anyone else got the same info backchannel as I did, and why she didn't state more of the context of her email to me, *up front* on PW and rec.boat. I'll be calling her superiors early next week, and will report back as appropriate and in good faith. Nevertheless, I do appreciate her considered response and ultimately think PW is as good as any a place to discuss safety devices, of which sponsons qualify. Some of the humour was worth all the effort too (at least I enjoyed Rob's post -- other certain goof-balls, no). Doug Lloyd (who was stuck behind a desk today, along with Steve Davis, left to only dream about being out in the gale today) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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