Have I missed something?! I was under the impression that Paddlewise was an open forum where paddlers, novice and expert alike, were free to share their opinions, questions and experiences about boats, paddles and other gear. I have never gotten the feeling that anyone had a particular axe to grind, but more that folks could recount their personal experiences, knowing that the rest of us would take it with a grain of salt, and do our own homework. I'm sure some history buff can jump in and tell me who it was who said "I may not agree with your opinion, but I will defend to the death your right to express it." c banner, you've worked in the industry and have strong opinions about how some boats are made. If I, as the consumer, disagreed with you after paddling these boats, would my opinion be invalid? Jolie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The 'opinion' forum discussion is a constant companion to these venues. I would suggest that we distinguish between 'opinion' and 'positions'. The former is generally reactive, the latter requires investment of thought, experience, authority, reason, & a more substantive consideration of what is being said, to whom (its audience), and the purpose of the message. We're all entitled to our opinions. We're just not entitled broadcast them with impunity and w/o consideration of the venue and the context. USENET groups that used to be very functional and beneficial have been rendered into digital morass by the constant blither and bickering. Drop by rec.backcountry for the latest 300 gigabit update on mountain bikes and hiking trails....or rec.paddling etc. for the latest 5 million words on sp_at__at_ns_at__at_s. Did so/did not, uh-huh/nuh-uh pissing contests abound. Unlike USENET that one must visit voluntarily, Paddlewise is a forum we actively invite into our email homes. I admire, respect, and appreciate the intelligent discussions that occur here; have learned a tremendous amount from its contributors, and count myself lucky to have access to this thriving, self-governed and democratic electronic community. I would advocate that we do this best when expressing more in substantive, thoughtful 'positions' and less in 'opinions'. One can always direct opinions off-list. -will *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, I never take very seriously what anyone says on this list anyway! Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As I am the kind of person who tends to feel absolutely devastated when criticized, my first reaction to Doug's "mea culpa" was regret. I sure hate to see hurt feelings. I delete without reading many threads in Paddlewise, but since I very much like to read Doug's contributions (for many reasons), I always tune in when he writes. Nevertheless, I'd be very much surprised to learn that Doug has managed to get through life thus far without fault. And... I have yet to discover anybody in my life whose opinions (or factual reporting) I hold as infallible. For what it's worth, I enjoy Paddlewise, and I sincerely hope that it remains a forum with no trace of personal animosity. A joyous Christmas to all! Tom At 02:21 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, Melissa Reese wrote: >On Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 1:44:44 PM PST, Strosaker wrote: > > > I never take very seriously what anyone says on this list anyway! > >I don't belive you. ;-) > >-- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:07 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, you wrote: >hope your comments weren't really a direct reply to my kidding >around with Duane (the header references indicate a reply to my >message). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The last time I looked at what the PaddleWise, it was not set up to be a journal of record (i.e. journalism) nor to be considered a PhD dissertation (footnotes, primary and secondary references cited and documented et al). This is pretty much stated in the automatic footer that goes on the bottom of each message to the list as quoted below: *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > As for knocking the idea of assumptions with that cute thing about "to assume is to make an ASS of U and ME" that is plain not the way the real world works...we make assumptions all the time. And we hear or read assumptions and make our own about them depending on the person(s). If we didn't make certain assumptions about boats based on some knowledge and experience and if we didn't make some assumptions about how water/weather/wind are likely to interact, then we would never go out on the water period. You could never have enough verifiable "facts" about the boat and its way of behaving nor could you ever have enough verifiable "facts" about wind/water/weather/etc. I am more than comfortable with Doug's opinions and assumptions. If he makes a mistake that I know is a mistake or proves to be one later, than so what. This is not then a reason to say that nothing he says from then on out is not to be trusted. I doubt that there is anyone who could live up to such an absolute standard. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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