Just my 2 cents: Regarding ropes, I have a preference for the polyester ropes, which don't stretch as much as nylon and hence don't require as much adjusting to keep the tension on the tarp. Also, note that a strong wind can impose *very* strong loads on the tarp. For that reason, I always use at least 1/4 inch rope for my ridge line. Another thing -- most of the tarps that are made with grommetted corners aren't reinforced very well -- the most I've seen is where they simply double the fabric. As a rule, polyester and especially nylon fabrics (as opposed to, say, canvas), being slippery and thin, by their nature don't hold grommets very well. But even if the material is reinforced better than that, grommets just don't have that much material to bite onto, especially where strong gusts could inflict a hundred or more pounds of force on the connection. Maybe this is overkill, but I created my own corner attachments for my tarps by sewing a yard or so of nylon or polyester webbing (I think 3/4 inch wide) along the outside seam of each corner, forming a loop at the corner (for attaching a rope) that comes back around onto itself, then continues down the other side of the corner. Sort of like this: _ ________|__) | | | | Then, since most tarps don't have nearly enough attachment points on the sides (and sometimes only on the corners!), I cut triangles of reinforcement material for placement where I want an extra attachment point which I glue (I use contact cement) and sew these to the tarp (again, probably overkill, but it's easy and I believe this makes the reinforcement much stronger), then sew a loop of webbing onto the reinforced area for attaching the rope to. I've never regretted doing this, since you never know where you'll need to tie on -- especially if you're camped on cramped or irregularly shaped area. I like attachment points at least every 6 feet or so. One other quick tip: If you really need to tie a rope where there isn't an attachment point, put a smooth rock (maybe golfball size or a little smaller) on one side of the tarp, wrap the loose material around the rock enough that you can tie a loop of rope around it from the other side. Evan Dallas, tarp-lover, grommet-hater Woodinville, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Dave Kruger" <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> > > The emphasis in this thread so far has been on stoves. Let's turn to tarps. I agree, a good tarp can go a long ways. Now if I can only convince my father that a tarp should be put up under tension. He is from the old school that believes putting up a tarp under tension will ruin the tarp. So every tarp he puts up sags big time. I do have a question: What type of rope do you use? And do you rely on some form of tensioner for the rope or just use a good knot (and if so which one)? Currently I'm using this bulky yellow rope that floats. Upside it floats, downside it's bulky. Mel *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I use drapery cord, (available at hardware stores) but that works because I use the ultralight Silnylon tarps. As for knots, I learned a slipknot which I learned so long ago I cannot possibly describe it. It's a standard knot used for adjusting the tension on tent stakes. I don't use those little tiny metal tensioners. They're too much trouble to keep up with. Marsanne >> > I do have a question: What type of rope do you use? And do you rely on > some form of tensioner for the rope or just use a good knot (and if so > which one)? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Mel Grindol" <mel_at_grindol.com> > I do have a question: What type of rope do you use? And do you rely on > some form of tensioner for the rope or just use a good knot (and if so > which one)? I use either light nylon or polyester braided line. For knots, I use a midshipman's (aka tautline) hitch at the grommet end. For the other end (tree, deadman whatever) I use whatever works (bowline and timber hitch variants mostly) Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I do have a question: What type of rope do you use? And do you rely on >some form of tensioner for the rope or just use a good knot (and if so >which one)? I usually use parachute line. It's pretty common in outdoor stores. It's a thinnish rope so you can pack lots of it in a small space. It has a nylon core with a tightly woven sheath, a little less than the thickness of a pencil. It's dirt cheap to buy as well. It lets you keep a couple hundred feet in not a lot of space. Besides for tarping I use it along with carabineers and the odd pulley for tossing and hoisting lines between trees for overnight pack hoisting. You can also get small net bags that can expand to hold a tremendous amount of light loose gear for hoisting. Normally I can the tarps and lines pretty tight and just tie off with a clove hitch either back around to the line itself or an adjacent branch or stump. The half hitches are soo easy to do under tension with one hand while the other holds tension. And they come undone very easily when needed even when wet or have been under tension for a long time, as soon as you release some tension. When you need a rope attachment point where you don't happen to have a grommet hole in a tarp, you can use small smooth pebbles. Wrap the edge (or even the middle) of the tarp around the pebble, then loop/tie the rope around the tarp where you gathered it around the pebble. The pebble prevents the tarp from slipping through the loop of the rope, and you can attach the rope where ever you need it. For example if you need a center support somewhere and don't have a pole, you can instead attach a rope from above, to that spot (even in the middle of a tarp) and spot suspend it from above. The main thing I find with tarps is pre-envisioning the water flow paths when it rains (accounting for sag and pooling) and putting that runoff where you'll want it so it doesn't come back under the tarp into the people space. Sometimes in addition to the tensioning of the lines to angle the water where you want, even a small rock resting on top in a specific spot can be helpful to create a valley and collect all water to a particular runoff spot. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Like Dave, I am a great fan of tarps on kayaking trips. You can find an article I wrote on tarps at http://www.isk.canoe-kayak.org/howto/tarps.html. On trips the group I am with will carry two Cook Custom Sewing 10x12 silicone impregnated tarps. These tarps are compact, lightweight and incredibly tough. Dana Dickson > -----Original Message----- > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:25:52 -0800 > From: "Dave Kruger" <kdruger_at_pacifier.com> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Backpacking stoves and tarps > > The emphasis in this thread so far has been on stoves. > Let's turn to tarps. > > I use a tarp at almost every campsite, mainly because I paddle in wet > places. Typically, the tarp is the first thing to go up, > for use in staging > and unpacking ... because it is raining when we arrive! > What do I use? > Simple stuff. I've owned and tested fancy ones and in the > end I prefer > plain old rectangular, grommetted-on-the-edge coated nylon > tarps. The ones > with aerodynamic shapes do not allow a canopy effect, > permitting rain to > swoop under the edges. And, with the addition of tie points > (to sewn-on > loops of webbing) at several places on the top of the tarp, > I can skyhook to > limbs, etc., above, and avoid the dreaded center pole. > > I have used a 7 x 9 for two, a 10 x 10 for two, a 10 x 12 > for four, and a > bud has an 18 x 12 that is dandy for half a dozen seated > eaters and cribbage > players. When in doubt, go one size larger than you think > you will need. > The "edge effect" of blown moisture makes that extra foot of > dimension into > what seems like more than another foot of room when the rain falls. > > Coated nylon works better for me than the cheaper woven > polyethylene ("blue > tarps") because the nylon is easier to modify or sew to, is > much quieter in > the wind, and packs down smaller in the front hatch. > > I paid about $35 for my 10 x 10 and a 10 x 12 runs about $40 > from Campmor > these days. I'll sell my fancy-Dan tarps (Marmot, Kelty) to > anybody with > ready cash. > > I do not carry poles, and rarely use stakes. The former is > too bulky, and > the latter almost never work in sand or on rock (where I > seem to camp, most > days). Buried deadmen work well in sand, and on a rocky surface, > porta-rocks are the anchor of choice. If I do carry > stakes, I take the > wimpy backpacker ones, 'cause they're small to pack and work well in > consolidated sod. Otherwise, I saw/chop my own out of > downed wood. Center > poles are not a problem in my part of the Northwest, > although in areas like > national parks or other locales demanding minimum impact > camping, I would > carry poles, to avoid conflict with wood harvest rules. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow, Dana and Dave are two paddlers after my own heart (or should that be "my own tarp"). I'm a huge tarp fan too. Great article Dana - and most amusing photo. My own effort along these lines is at http://www.adventurekayakmag.com/Vol%201%20Iss%202/Roomswithaview.html BTW, old Paddlewise hands may recognise my name from a couple of years back. Work load has kept me off the list for a while and I'll be subscribing and unsubscribing as it flucuates, but hello to old friends and new ones. As my signature line explains, you can't email me backchannel until I put you on my accept list, but I'll be happy to add any Paddlewisers to the list - just include a request in some other regular posting to Paddlewise (Hope that's okay with you Jackie!) Philip N49°16' W123°06' IMPORTANT INFORMATION: Due to high Spam volume, my e-mail filters are set to accept mail only from known addresses. If you reply to me using an address other than the one that I sent this message to, your message will be "trashed" without me ever seeing it. If you would like to send me e-mail from another address, please reply to me via the address I sent this mail to, advising me of the address you would like me to add to my "accept" list. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mel Grindol" <mel_at_grindol.com> wrote: >> I do have a question: What type of rope do you use? And do you rely on some form of tensioner for the rope or just use a good knot (and if so which one)? >> Nylon lines, either the parachute cord (nominal diameter 1/8 inch) or larger sheathed stuff (1/4 diameter). The larger diameter stuff gets used for corners and wherever I want greater strength and/or less stretch when wet. I end up with an assortment of lengths, from 3-foot shorties to 30-footers. I use the small diameter stuff for short ties to adjacent limbs, etc. Sheathed dacron (polyester) does not stretch much when wet, but is too much bother to sort out. No special tighteners, just tautline hitches. The plastic tighteners are too fussy for me and do not give as much tension as double-hauling on a tautline hitch. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Evan Dallas" <Evan_Dallas_at_notes.ntrs.com> Good advice, Evan! > Also, note that a strong wind > can impose *very* strong loads on the tarp. For that reason, I always use > at least 1/4 inch rope for my ridge line. For those who've read Colin Fletcher's "The Complete Walker" will know of the trick of only tying down three corners of a tarp and tying the fourth corner to a relatively light rock. That way, the wind energy is spent by lifting and dropping the rock. The trick is finding the right weight of rock (or piece of wood etc). Too heavy and it just sits there (stressing the tarp); too light and the tarp snaps like crazy. I frequently use this technique on my tarp if I'm in a windy, exposed area. When kayaking, that's often. I also will do this if the tarp is up overnight and I don't want to awaken to find the wind has picked up and is rattling the tarp to pieces. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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