I was recently paddling on the Chesapeake Bay when the water was in the 30's and the air was about 24 degrees. I use neoprene hunting gloves commonly found in K-Mart/Wal-Mart for less than $10. I submerged one hand several times right off doing a hard, edged turn and it continued to get colder. I borrowed a pair of pogies and warmed up for about 15 minutes, then returned them. My hands stayed warm the remainder of the trip. I didn't like the feeling of being tied to my paddle so I purchased a pair of water resistant mitten shells that are large enough to go over the gloves. I confess I have not had the opportunity to test the theory, but I think they would allow me to re-warm my gloved hands and still be able to remove my hands from the paddle. Hope this helps, Brian Blankinship *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Cold hands Mike, being very thin I have always had cold hand problems especially since I try to paddle year round up here in Alaska. I approach the problem in several ways. First I over dress putting on an extra layer on my torso to build up and hold heat at my body core. If the body's core starts to get too cold the circulation system begins to rob warm blood from the extremetes (hands, feet ears) to protect the vital interior organs. Also I keep my head warm with a knit cap and the hood of my anorak. Second, I use a wooden paddle. the wood retains warmth from my hands whereas fiberglass always seems to suck the warmth away. Third, I take a variety of gloves. A pair thin polypro for when the conditions are not too bad and for fiddling with gear. (touching cold gear with bare hands is to be avoided) A set of pogies, awkward yes but useful on windy days when the wind tries to drive the heat out of my hands. Lastly a set of neopreme wet suit gloves for when thing get their worst. Also it is very important to make sure that tight fitting wrist gaskets, or gloves do not restrict your circulation. I had an old pair of neopreme gloves that made my thumbs freeze because of this. I eventually replaced them and solved the problem. Keep well hydrated. Hydration effects blood flow. Keep eating allowing the calories to build up heat in your body. (if a wood stove runs out of wood the fire goes out) Push come to shove take along some chemical heat packs to re warm your hands. Hope this helps Bob In balmy Alaska (temps have been above normal all winter) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_aptalaska.net> > Cold hands >I use a wooden paddle. the wood retains warmth from my hands whereas > fiberglass always seems to suck the warmth away. > Bob The good Rev jolted my memory concerning cold paddle shafts. NSI sells a wrap around neoprene index for one piece paddles called a Paddle Gripz. Perhaps it would help a bit. I have wanted to stick one on my whitewater paddle but just haven't gotten around to ordering it. ~ $12.00 Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Since Keith mentioned me by name, I'll give my $.02 worth--I've been wearing NRS HydroSkin gloves with my pogies this year. This combination provides plenty of warmth paddling the cold waters, not to mention the air temps, of Lake Michigan, even when needing to reach under a friend's boad to free a jammed skeg. After bringing my hand back out of the water I just make a tight fist to squeeze excess water out, do a quick hand fling and get back into that pogie. Newbies to winter paddling complain about the pogies at first, but they learn the warmth advantage; they adapt and become happy cold weather paddlers. As soon as I hit the beach the HydroSkin gloves are replaced with the thick fleece gloves I carry in my day hatch. I've tried just about every possibility -- open palmed mitts are good for early winter when the water is still fairly warm (45 to 50 degrees F), but colder air temps. Colder than that I loose use of my hands too quickly during rescues. HydroSkin gloves have a nice wide range of temps. I loose too much dexterity with neoprene gloves and mitts, and I've yet to find a pair that keep my fingers warm. For pogies I prefer the stiffer cuffs of neoprene--easier to slip the hand into. But, sometimes my hands over heat in them. I've got a pair of nylon cuffed that when not in use wrap around the paddle shaft and snap "closed"--but they are harder to get the hands into. It's all about trade-offs. John Browning www.wildernessconnection.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As a Reynaud's Syndrome sufferer -- constriction causes middle fingers to shut down completely, turning yellowish blue and losing all feeling -- I share the pain. Have tried all the "best" of everyone's else's suggestion, but will strongly endorse a neoprene mitt with some light liner inside. A lot better than neoprene gloves -- for the reasons earlier responders noted. I also am fooling around with two pairs of dry gloves -- one a true diving glove that has a complicated set of rings that go into the drysuit cuffs and another that go into heavy latex gloves. The other, much cheaper and easier to use in some ways, is basically the same glove that I bought from the dive shop -- heavy latex, beefier than a dry suit seal, but not by much -- with a seal that looks just like the cuff of the dry suit and mates over (or under) the suit's seal. So far, so good, but this winter has been a disaster at work, and I haven't had enough time to really test them, or to see how long they'll survive. Big dive shops for the first -- my source for the second was Annapolis Performance Sailing. They have a web site, will sell by phone, and, for locals, they have a postbox contraption outside the store to allow you to pick up stuff you've bought by card when they're closed. Which is a lot of the time. These guys love to sail. Diver's rig is about $120 or more. Not a great value for most kayakers, although they're set up to allow body heat/air to circulate to the hands. For me, in my extreme susceptibility to cold, there's value there. The APS gloves were about $15. There's a balance of getting a liner to provide warmth -- by themselves, they offer no warmth -- and having so much bulk that you can't handle the paddle. One final potential solution: Magic Marine Dry Gloves product number is 23001. They're sailing gloves, and are made of two mm titanium layered neoprene with taped seams and a double cuff. Your dry suit seal goes over the first cuff seal and under the second cuff seal, with an overlocking Velcro strap on the outside. Can't wear liners, but the titanium-enhanced neoprene seems warm, and the glove is dry. Period. Assuming you follow the guidelines. At about $35 at sailing shops, but these puppies sell out fast, and they're hard to find at this time of the year. Again, there's a downside: makes it harder to feel the paddle, and there's sometimes a "bungee" effect where a thicker liner and a latex glove will make it hard to bend the fingers. Recyclable hand warmers from REI are also a good source of heat --- but not for long. Good luck with those hands! Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Does anyone use pogies with a Greenland paddle. And if you do how well do they work when sliding your hands on the paddle? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've been using my Greenland for several years if winter paddling. The first year I spent $112 to TRY to keep my hands warm. After a few domestic discussions on the use of limited resources I tried the pogies. I had to go through several permutations of those too but landed on the river mits as ones that would slide along the paddle and let me get my gloved hands in without use of teeth or fellow paddlers. I use the Hydroskin gloves inside the pogies. I want some thought that my hands will function if I do have to come out of my boat. I am not close to a bombproof roll. I need hands even for an assisted rescue. OTOH, rolling isn't an issure as I use an extended position with my one hand on the very end of the blade, which I just take out of the mit, and the other pogie slides easily. For you, I guess it will depend on how thick your loom is and if you can find mitts with a nice wide attachment area. Mine are NRS something. I don't recall what at this point. Does anyone use pogies with a Greenland paddle. And if you do how well do they work when sliding your hands on the paddle? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Mike O'Byrne" <Heep_at_attbi.com> wrote: >Ahoy! I'm having serious problems paddling this winter with frozen fingers...Aside from pogies, does anyone have suggestions to alleviate wet, frozen fingers? Try Nordic Blue or orange Atlas pvc-coated fish cleaning gloves. Any industrial chandlery down on the "working" side of your local marina should have them. Working meaning the chandleries who cater to fishermen, merchant mariners, longshoremen...not the ones who cater to yachties or recreational fishermen. I have a pair of XXL Atlas gloves...which are the first waterproof gloves I've found large enough to fit my hands. I've been wearing them without any sort of seal, but plan to incorporate a PVC ring/o-ring seal to seal them to the sleeves of my drysuit. Brian Nystrom, I think, has glued latex wrist seals to a pair of Nordic Blues to make his own drygloves. Home Depot also has some cotton-lined, blue PVC coated "chemical resistant" gloves. They should work great, too. They just didn't have my size. :( I had been using a pair of neoprene gloves from WalMart. You apparently have to buy these in August or September. Now that it's winter, they're all out of stock, and the spring sporting goods are in. Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:18 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, Shawn Baker wrote: >"Mike O'Byrne" <Heep_at_attbi.com> wrote: > >Ahoy! I'm having serious problems paddling this winter with frozen >fingers...Aside from pogies, does anyone have suggestions to alleviate >wet, frozen fingers? I paddle with Mike (who began this "cold hands" thread this time around). I bear witness to his dilemma (read... pain) on our last outing, Sunday, off NH's Newcastle coast. Temps were freezing, wind about 20 knots, water in the low 40s. Seems we've had our share of nasty conditions this winter so far. I 'm also afflicted with cold hands, the kind that numb to no-feeling-at-all and ache horribly when they begin to "come back." Froze them playing in the winter mountains years ago. The things we do for excitement! I guess I've tried about everything, and I suspect that my dry suit wrist gaskets are part of the problem. That being said, my latest experiment is wearing a "Climb High" gortex mitten shell over a medium-weight polypro mitten. These were designed for ice climbers. My hands were the warmest I've ever felt them, for most of our last outing. Still, today in the mail I got my pair of "Black Mambas," an NRS 5mm set of poggies. My wife sweats by poggies, but being somewhat stubborn, I've yet to try them. I guess I feel that they might be too hard to slide on the paddle; I often change the spread of my hands on both Euro and Greenland paddles. Wife says, "no problem," and because many of you testify, after a getting-used-to period, a paddler loves them, I will experiment again. I never thought of myself as having "large" hands. According to NRS, a spread of 4 to 4 1/2 inches (widest part of palm) will demand L to XL size. But even when I tried Mike's NRS XXL gloves, my hands felt too snug. I have yet to find a pair of neoprene gloves roomy enough. If any of you paddler folks have more info on NRS Hydroskins... exact model name, please pass this on (back channel if desired). I will rethink the XXL, and try on Mike's again to make sure they are indeed XXL (not just XL). They are the black and red colored model; I forget the name. Not sure if they're hydroskin though. What's life without a quest, eh? TomL *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/11/2003 4:49:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, aaronwhite_at_mn.rr.com writes: > If pogies are not going to work buy a thick NRS neoprene mitten. > Do NOT use liners. The key to pogies and mittens is sharing the > heat of your entire hand. A glove style liner inside a mitten is really > just going to insulate the heat from your hand and make the mitten > less effective. Any chance that you could run that by again, Aaron? Not challenging your statement, but it seems counterintuitive that liners inside neoprene mitts would have a negative warmth factor. Sounds as if your mitts are providing some warmth on their own, and that the glove liners are keeping that heat away from your hands. On a bright, sunny day without spray or wave action, I know that the backs of my black neoprene gloves will soak up a little heat, but it sure doesn't seem to compete with what little heat is radiating out of my hands to heat up the moist air inside. Dunno, but if you could be a tad more specific, it would be great news! There are some pogies out there now that are not as hard to get on and off. Fat Eddy's has a set with stiff cuffs, and they say that " ... there are no hangups on getting this pogie on and off quickly. We have implemented a split lycra gasket inside that seals around your wrist when put on. It is easy to put these pogies on with the stiff open gauntlet, which is not crushable. As far as bombproof goes these daddies are made of 2mm neoprene on the bottom and 600D polyester foam laminate on top makes for some warm paddling in cold conditions." Sorry, didn't write down the URL. One last issue: my biggest concern would be getting knocked down is some unexpected scenario with some injury, not be able to roll back, and have to swim for an extended period. I suppose you could back up the pogies with neo gloves in a pocket, but it doesn't take long at all to completely lose function in your hands, and getting on a reserve pair seems problematic. Open to ideas. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 11 Feb 2003 at 22:20, JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > Any chance that you could run that by again, Aaron? Not challenging your statement, but it > seems counterintuitive that liners inside neoprene mitts would have a negative warmth factor. > Sounds as if your mitts are providing some warmth on their own, and that the glove liners are > keeping that heat away from your hands. On a bright, sunny day without spray or wave action, I > know that the backs of my black neoprene gloves will soak up a little heat, but it sure doesn't > seem to compete with what little heat is radiating out of my hands to heat up the moist air inside. > Dunno, but if you could be a tad more specific, it would be great news! Here is my theory....a mitten or in this case a pogie allows your fingers and hand parts to stay together, "sharing the warmth" if you will. Skin contact is the best way as far as I know of sharing heat between body parts in a wide variety of situations. While it might seem that a glove type liner would add to the warmth it is actually going to insulate said fingers and hand parts from one another. Granted you will have the benefit of the gloves insulation plus additional wind resistance cause by the pogie. I would however suggest that you would retain more heat keeping your fingers and hand parts together via skin contact. Our winter paddling up here averages 20 degrees air and 32 water on nice day. I am constantly amazed at how much warmer my hand is bare inside a pogie then with gloves. I will certainly acknowledge though that preferences and paddling conditions will vary. The design of the pogie will play a significant roll as well. I use thick neoprene pogies that offer excellent insulation and have a cuff that mates well with the wrist of my drysuit. Give it a try, bring along some gloves. On another note, my statement about nylon pogies was a bit strong. It would still be my personal opinion that in my local paddling conditions I would not use them. Of course as with anything mileage will vary and if nylon works well for you then I think it is certainly your best choice. Aaron White Minneapolis *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joq wrote: > One last issue: my biggest concern would be getting knocked down is some > unexpected scenario with some injury, not be able to roll back, and have to > swim for an extended period. I suppose you could back up the pogies with neo > gloves in a pocket, but it doesn't take long at all to completely lose > function in your hands, and getting on a reserve pair seems problematic. > Open to ideas. I agree -- there WILL come that time when the hands have to come out of the pogies. From personal experience I can tell you that at about 30 degrees F. you lose effective use of damp hands in seconds. My solution: I wear 2mm neoprene gloves (Glacier - little loss of feel for the paddle shaft, pretty good manipulability for handling the day hatch and gear) and have pogies wrapped on the paddle. When I want more warmth, I slip into the pogies. When I feel my hands are getting warm, I take them out of the pogies for a while. But I **won't** come out of those gloves in very cold weather again! Bob V *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Does anyone use pogies with a Greenland paddle. And if you do how well do they work when sliding your hands on the paddle? >> I don't use pogies with my Greenland paddle, but I do use the largest PVC or equivalent chemical-resistant gloves I can find, and line them with expedition-weight Capilene gloves. I look for the the most flexible gloves I can find; It is important that this combination not be so tight as to restrict circulation or movement. The main function of the PVC gloves is to minimize wind chill. They shed water quickly. One problem I have had with neoprene gloves is moisture being retained on the outside surface, which cools the gloves strongly in any kind of breeze. The only neoprene glove I would use would be one with a smooth -- not fabric-covered or open-cell -- skin. The liners keep my hands warm even when wet, as long as they are covered by the PVC shells, and can be exchanged for a spare dry pair. I've paddled on the Mississippi at 8 degrees F. with this combination, and my hands stayed fairly comfortable. I used to use pogies before I started using a Greenland paddle, but as a friend pointed out years ago, they won't protect your hands if you come out of the boat. BTW, the shoulders on a Southwest Greenland-style paddle make it much easier to grasp when the loom is covered by 1/8 inch of ice. And a good reason to use an extended roll with the Greenland paddle is that ice does not build up on the blade while you are paddling. Chuck Holst St. Paul, Minnesota -5 degrees this morning *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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