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From: Wolf, Mike <michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:03:19 -0600
Does anyone have any experience with one of these?  Same/similar performance to the one piece (I paddle a light weight Explorer)? extra weight? Do the 3 pieces connect solidly?  Ever experience leaking, stress cracking at the 4-bolt bulkhead connections, loosening of connections on long trips or rough water? Just as important, how does it handle going through airports?  As one is usually allowed 2 standard suitcases, it seems that the three kayak sections are large enough that significant $ charges could result from their oversized bags, and the fact that there is a 3rd bag. I was also wondering if a 3-piece 16-ft Romany offers any great advantage in terms of managing the bag sizes.  
Thanks,  
Mike
michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com
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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:01:41 EST
In a message dated 3/18/2003 10:04:23 AM Central Standard Time, 
michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com writes:


> Does anyone have any experience with one of these?  Same/similar performance 
> to the one piece (I paddle a light weight Explorer)? extra weight? Do the 3 
> pieces connect solidly?  Ever experience leaking, stress cracking at the 
> 4-bolt bulkhead connections, loosening of connections on long trips or 
> rough water? Just as important, how does it handle going through airports?  
> As one is usually allowed 2 standard suitcases, it seems that the three 
> kayak sections are large enough that significant $ charges could result 
> from their oversized bags, and the fact that there is a 3rd bag. I was also 
> wondering if a 3-piece 16-ft Romany offers any great advantage in terms of 
> managing the bag sizes.  
> Thanks,  
> Mike
> 
I have a 3 piece Nordkapp. Paddles the same as my former one piece. I am a 
bit more leery of it in the surf though it handled 4-6 feet on a gentle beach 
gradiant just fine.

It probably weighs 10 pounds more than a standard Nordkapp due to the 
hardware and 2 extra bulkheads. They connect solidly and do not leak. 
However, make sure you tighten the bolts very, very well or you will ship 
water and possibly endanger yourself. I have personal knowledge of that. : (

I experience no cracks from stress, etc. It does not loosen on its own. It is 
well at home in rough water, the 3 piece aspect adds no particular 
vulnerabilities. Contact GRO, the importer in the US. Seems as though Stan C 
takes his all over the world, Antarctica, Aleutians, Easter Island. Big Water 
country.

Airports: This is another matter. have a boat canvas place make a set of bags 
for you or make them yourself. Leave enough room in them for camping gear, 
paddling gear and clothing to armor them against the baggage handlers and 
airport machinery. Expect to have the gelcoat touched up once in a while.

It is not easy to move the bags at the airport. Think about it: you get 
dropped off at the curb, some airports have skycaps worth twice their tip 
rate. (Tip well, too!). Some airports have skycaps unconcerned of your plight 
of having to move 3 each 5 to 6 foot bags to the counter. It is a long trip 
when a pile at the curb needs to move 50 to 100 feet. The skycaps have sole 
possession of the big carts, too. Be nice. 9-1-1 security will have you well 
eyeballed, be slow and tranparent in your actions.

I paid 75 dollars for each 6 foot section. Still cheaper than renting a boat 
of questionable performance on the other end. I don't think it matters 
whether or not it is a 5 or a 6 foot bag, they will most likely tag you for 
50 to 75 dollar oversized charge. Be a Go-Lite style camper and reduce your 
kayak section weight by not packing them too heavily.The fun doesn't stop 
there.

When you are at your destination airport you need to get the bags from the 
baggage delivery to a rent a car or a pickup at the curb. What kind of 
vehicle are you planning to put it into? A Geo Metro? I don't think so! In 
Mexico they have huge vans with huge roof racks. A great place for travelling 
kayakers. Think about where you are going and how you will transport your 
kayak when at the destination.

The beauty of the 3 piece is having one kayak that does it all. They tend to 
load and unload easier when packing on the beach than a typical folding 
kayak. I have a Khatsalano by Feathercraft which is bagged into one measily 
little 50 pound. My other duffel includes camping and paddling gear. No extra 
charges. No transportation issues. No real performance loss and it paddles as 
well as most performance style boats. It costs slightly more. It has less 
payload than my Nordkapp by 50 pounds. It weighs 45 pounds without the bag.

One more thing: What are you going to do with the bags that you made for 
transporting them? I've done everything from launching and caching them in an 
out of the way place in BC, Canada to having them eat space on board, and 
stashing them at a first and last night hotel. Just be mindful of the issue 
and be prepared to make a decision with them when the time comes.

Additionally, you can put the boat together at a rent a car place and use a 
rackless pad system to car top it. Do you need a rent a car? Get on the web 
and ask a shuttle service for pick up's and drop off's. Make sure you tell 
them what you are transporting so there is room for you and your cargo. You 
can ship your camping and paddling gear by UPS or another shipper ahead of 
you for reasonable rates in your domestic country.

Finally, A 3-piece or a folding kayak makes an outstanding choice for a 
primary kayak. There are issues with each of the choices but none as daunting 
as:

Help I'm a boat snob and I just landed in Sit On Top Hell! What do I do? 
Where can I rent a boat for 2 weeks or 2 days?

Feel free to email me if I've not answered you completely.

Rob G

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From: al.m <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 01:47:48 -0800
Just my 2 cents;
> It is not easy to move the bags at the airport.

How about folding cart?  It 's useful even with Featherrcrafts - since total
luggage weight is normally 2-3 times more than Khatsalano itself. Less
practical with 3-piece boat, may be. Skycaps are fine, but try to fly into
Los Cabos - no $2 carts and no luggage handlers with big carts until ground
transportation hall, which is  more than 100 ft after customs.

>  Be nice. 9-1-1 security will have you well
> eyeballed, be slow and tranparent in your actions.

They'll pull you off for detailed luggage examination, 100% positive.  But
they are pretty fast. Mexicans examined each and every bag on departure back
to the states, btw.

>  I don't think it matters
> whether or not it is a 5 or a 6 foot bag, they will most likely tag you
for
> 50 to 75 dollar oversized charge.

I got through Vancouver airport with an overweighted luggage 100 kg, 220 lbs
(limit 64 kg, 140 lbs).  She definitely saw the weight, but didn't care.
Size was within the limit for one bag, (158 cm total of 3 dimensions:
L+W+H), but another one was slightly less than 4 ft long and approx. 18" by
18" wide -  roughly 50% above the limit.

> One more thing: What are you going to do with the bags that you made for
> transporting them?

Feathercraft standard backpack is neither light nor compact, too.  But
F-craft boats itself are at least compact, can be loaded into thin-fabrique
hockey bag (there are some), or oversized gym bag.  Those bags take very
little space in the boat, but are awkward to carry alone, especially when
each is over 100 lbs, be it on a shoulder strap, or using both straps a-la
backpack.

Alex.

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From: Jochen Grikschat <grikschat_at_web.de>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer another chance
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:03:00 +0100
There is another chance to reduce problems with sectional kayak parts,
especially at airports.
A famous german kayak supplier sells the partiell foldable laminate kayak.
Have a look at www.zoelzer.de
They get the normal mid-section (Cockpit) of (theoretically) any kind of
kayak, and fix beyond the compartments foldable parts. Stern and Bow look
like a folding boat and the mid section got all the functional pros of
laminate kayaks..Ffor transportation, you store the parts in the mid-section
and near to the compartement. And it still got place for further gear. so,
there is only one kayak part to carry + one bag.
They´re still on the search for better partiell solutions, but you could buy
it. The testing kayaks base on the Prijon Yukon E and a Kayaksport Viking (I
think).

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From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Yakima Saddles on a Thule Rack
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:57:20 -0600
Hello all,

so I don't have a car. I do however own a nice Yakima rack and lots 
of saddles. Now my girlfriend let me buy a rack for her car. It's one 
of those fancy funny new Beetles just dying to have a 18" boat on top 
of it. Thule is the only one who makes a rack that fits both the 
Beetle and a kayak (you need some sort of weird extender for the 
Yakima). So I bought the Thule rack but I don't want to buy any more 
saddles.

So now we get to my question. Is anyone making an adapter for Yakima 
saddles is there a trick for getting them to fit? Apparently, one or 
the other used to but realized they could make more money by 
requiring you to purchase theirs.

My new boat (a Kayak Sport Millennium) arrives Monday and I have to 
get it to the water somehow!


-Patrick
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From: Patrick Maun <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima Saddles on a Thule Rack
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:31:50 -0600
At 7:09 PM -0800 3/27/03, Steve Holtzman wrote:
>Patrick,
>
>I believe that Yakima still makes a plastic bracket that allows you to put
their accessories onto a Thule rack. [SNIP]

According to the dealer here Yakima quit making them. I checked their 
website and there is no reference to them anywhere. That's why I was 
hoping some 3rd party was making them.

So, anyone think I can get two boats on the Beetle?

-Patrick
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From: al.m <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima Saddles on a Thule Rack
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:38:14 -0800
> Yakima). So I bought the Thule rack but I don't want to buy any more
> saddles.
>
> So now we get to my question. Is anyone making an adapter for Yakima
> saddles is there a trick for getting them to fit? Apparently, one or
> the other used to but realized they could make more money by
> requiring you to purchase theirs.
>

If I've got it right, you have *old* modification of Yakima saddles with
mounts for *round* Yakima bars only.  Newest Yakima saddle mounts have
easily removed pieces allowing to transform round cross-section into square
one.  I think you may  buy such New Yakima mounts from the nearest roof-rack
shop.  Another solution: look at those round Yakima old mounts: you may cut
an angle in them, and make them square.  There will be very thin wall
between the bolt and bar, but should work.  Considering the cost of new
Beetle, or new kayak... I would get those newest mounts.
Alex.


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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima Saddles on a Thule Rack
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:10:16 -0800
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:57:20 -0600, "Patrick Maun"
<patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> said:
> Hello all,
> 
> so I don't have a car. I do however own a nice Yakima rack and lots 
> of saddles. Now my girlfriend let me buy a rack for her car. It's one 
> of those fancy funny new Beetles just dying to have a 18" boat on top 
> of it. 

For a while I didn't have a car.  One day I borrowed my girlfriends car,
put a roof rack on it, went out and bought a sheet of 1" plywood. 
Driving
back from the store I heard a "fwoop" sound and looked in the rear view 
mirror to see a sheet of plywood doing a tailstand in the road behind me,
I was on a 6 lane highway at the time.  This was an old fashioned gutter
rack.  It had torn the chrome gutter covers(who's idea where those...)
off the
car, the plywood was still securely attached to the roof rack. 
Fortunately 
the cars behind me swerved out of the way.  One foot of the
rack was trashed when a tractor-trailer drove over it.  The cheesy
chrome gutter covers were trashed.

Be careful about borrowing your girlfriends car...
-- 
  Kirk Olsen
  kork4_at_cluemail.com
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From: Joan Spinner <jspinner_at_peoplepc.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Yakima Saddles on a Thule Rack
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:21:31 -0500
<<There will be very thin wall


between the bolt and bar, but should work.  Considering the cost of new


Beetle, or new kayak... I would get those newest mounts>>





DON'T do it! Just take a moment to think about what happens to your boat with
the drag of 60 MPH and your saddle clamp  has broken. Your boat may not sail
off into the car behind you but is that a chance you want to take?





Joan





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From: Robert Livingston & Pam Martin <bearboat2_at_attbi.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:11:55 -0800
> As one is usually allowed 2 standard suitcases, it seems that the three kayak
> sections are large enough that significant $ charges could result from their
> oversized bags, and the fact that there is a 3rd bag.

I did this 15 years ago before airplane baggage became a fixation of
society. At that time, it was totally random. It depended on the person who
checked you on the flight. I took one International flight that charged me
$200 while my friends in the other line flew with no extra charge.

I suspect that this loose goose approach is less likely now that terrorism
is on everyone's lips and airlines are loosing money hand over fist.

I suspect that you pay and I suspect that it is a substantial amount of
money. You can call to ask them what it is. The difference is that now I
suspect you will pay whereas 15 years ago the majority of the time (in my
experience) you did NOT pay.

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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:21:32 EST
In a message dated 3/19/2003 3:55:29 AM Central Standard Time, al.m_at_3web.net 
writes:


> How about folding cart?  It 's useful even with Featherrcrafts - since total
> luggage weight is normally 2-3 times more than Khatsalano itself. Less
> practical with 3-piece boat, may be. Skycaps are fine, but try to fly into
> Los Cabos - no $2 carts and no luggage handlers with big carts until ground
> transportation hall, which is  more than 100 ft after customs.
> 
W/ a 3 piece you would need at least two of them, and probably 3. I can 
imagine the bow and stern on one cart with a liberal use of bungies and 
another for the cockpit. But then again, what am I going to do with the 
carts?



> They'll pull you off for detailed luggage examination, 100% positive.  But
> they are pretty fast. Mexicans examined each and every bag on departure 
> back
> to the states, btw.
> 

Just don't leave your baggage while you take trips to the counter. That is 
the conundrum. A pile of large bags on the curb and the owner walking some to 
the counter. 

> I got through Vancouver airport with an overweighted luggage 100 kg, 220 lbs
> (limit 64 kg, 140 lbs).  She definitely saw the weight, but didn't care.
> Size was within the limit for one bag, (158 cm total of 3 dimensions:
> L+W+H), but another one was slightly less than 4 ft long and approx. 18" by
> 18" wide -  roughly 50% above the limit.
> 
> I paid for size, not weight.
> 
> 
> Feathercraft standard backpack is neither light nor compact, too.  But
> F-craft boats itself are at least compact, can be loaded into thin-fabrique
> hockey bag (there are some), or oversized gym bag.  Those bags take very
> little space in the boat, but are awkward to carry alone, especially when
> each is over 100 lbs, be it on a shoulder strap, or using both straps a-la
> backpack.
> 
I have a friend that uses the incognito duffel bag approach. Very lightweight 
and enables him to pack another duffel for camp and paddle gear. They are not 
comfortable to move around that way but more often than not one is dropped at 
the curb and does the 2 dollar cart thing.

Rob G

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From: <Rcgibbert_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:30:24 EST
In a message dated 3/19/2003 3:55:29 AM Central Standard Time, al.m_at_3web.net 
writes:


> How about folding cart?  It 's useful even with Featherrcrafts - since total
> luggage weight is normally 2-3 times more than Khatsalano itself. Less
> practical with 3-piece boat, may be. Skycaps are fine, but try to fly into
> Los Cabos - no $2 carts and no luggage handlers with big carts until ground
> transportation hall, which is  more than 100 ft after customs.
> 
W/ a 3 piece you would need at least two of them, and probably 3. I can 
imagine the bow and stern on one cart with a liberal use of bungies and 
another for the cockpit. But then again, what am I going to do with the 
carts?



> They'll pull you off for detailed luggage examination, 100% positive.  But
> they are pretty fast. Mexicans examined each and every bag on departure 
> back
> to the states, btw.
> 

Just don't leave your baggage while you take trips to the counter. That is 
the conundrum. A pile of large bags on the curb and the owner walking some to 
the counter. 

> I got through Vancouver airport with an overweighted luggage 100 kg, 220 lbs
> (limit 64 kg, 140 lbs).  She definitely saw the weight, but didn't care.
> Size was within the limit for one bag, (158 cm total of 3 dimensions:
> L+W+H), but another one was slightly less than 4 ft long and approx. 18" by
> 18" wide -  roughly 50% above the limit.
> 
> I paid for size, not weight.
> 
> 
> Feathercraft standard backpack is neither light nor compact, too.  But
> F-craft boats itself are at least compact, can be loaded into thin-fabrique
> hockey bag (there are some), or oversized gym bag.  Those bags take very
> little space in the boat, but are awkward to carry alone, especially when
> each is over 100 lbs, be it on a shoulder strap, or using both straps a-la
> backpack.
> 
I have a friend that uses the incognito duffel bag approach. Very lightweight 
and enables him to pack another duffel for camp and paddle gear. They are not 
comfortable to move around that way but more often than not one is dropped at 
the curb and does the 2 dollar cart thing.

Rob G

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From: Wolf, Mike <michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] 3-piece NDK Explorer
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:27:06 -0600
Many thanks to all for the replies and thoughts on the above subject.  (Rob
G.-  many good thoughts!).  Clearly,  the concept has its advantages and
disadvantages.  A main factor seems to be how tolerable some of those travel
disadvantages are.


 


Regards,


 


Mike








In a message dated 3/18/2003 10:04:23 AM Central Standard Time,
michael.wolf_at_medtronic.com writes:














Does anyone have any experience with one of these?  Same/similar performance
to the one piece (I paddle a light weight Explorer)? extra weight? Do the 3
pieces connect solidly?  Ever experience leaking, stress cracking at the
4-bolt bulkhead connections, loosening of connections on long trips or rough
water? Just as important, how does it handle going through airports?  As one
is usually allowed 2 standard suitcases, it seems that the three kayak
sections are large enough that significant $ charges could result from their
oversized bags, and the fact that there is a 3rd bag. I was also wondering if
a 3-piece 16-ft Romany offers any great advantage in terms of managing the bag
sizes.  


Thanks,  


Mike














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