Gordin said: >>I was out paddling the other day and slowly closed in on this old guy in a...dory.>snip< Looking him firmly in his one good eye it dawned on me that I'd seen this man before. It was Captain Kangaroo...snip..."Just as I thought, your'n just like that Ralph and Doug always waxin poetic like."<< Actually, it wasn't Captain Kangaroo, it was old Bill Gay from Jules Verne's "In search of the Castaways," (Walt Disney version -- starring my favourite child-actress, Hayley Mills) and as that old codger Mr. William Gay would say, "Sew the wind, and reap the whirlwind." Better watch out brother! And while you aren't quite the consummate satirist you might like to think you are, it wasn't too bad a try. "A" for effort! I prefer your reality-based stories however -- like the Orca encounter last week. Perhaps when you have a few more nautical miles of experience under your belt like some of the other paddlers on this list, you might be tempted to post a little less fiction! :-) BTW, I didn't mean for my encounter with the old man to come across as poetic (though it seems many took it that way). I was at the point in the Vacuum-bagging thread where I had to make a choice: naming names, places, and boats -- and plunging further into a morass of controversy, or posting a reflective piece paraphrased from my log book. I choose the latter for obvious reasons given recent animosities (and a desire not to be shot). I also wanted to posit my position that amidst all the usual PW techno-talk, including the relative merits of various hull lamination technologies, it's probably a good idea to remind ourselves (me, anyway) that there is a whole wide world of "low-tech" paddlers out there, each in their older Klepper Aerius kayaks, paddling thousands of incident-free miles, safely negotiating their way to shore in what I would arguably consider lest robust hulls (softshells naturally equating a less-robust image than hardshells). I also, very unfortunately, posted the "Old Man and the Sea" to Paddlewise t oo quickly in my usual after-work brain-dead state (and too thickly, apparently), forgetting to add one of my main points of observation from that day long ago: the old guy was totally relaxed. I, on the other hand, was jittery, continually low-bracing and drawing sideways. I had meant to highlight the fact that the hardshell paddler is more reactionary in a messy sea-state, while the folder paddler seems to be reacting less while relaxing more. I was going to post a follow-up, but ralph picked this up right away. Ralph is of course a true, intuitive visionary, and an eloquent spokesperson for that segment of the paddling population. Being newer to the list, perhaps you were not as aware of ralphs passionate, yet well-respected contributions to the kayaking community at large. I'm not about to "convert" to his religion, but it is nice to know some of my observations merit accord with his actual experience in the folding-boat field, as it does with others. As far as waxing poetic, if I have, I'm sorry; this sport has provided something very special to me -- and it actually goes beyond superlatives and mere language. It is a pastime that would appear to always deliver greater returns than the effort expended -- for those that like the water. It is often difficult to restrain myself. And what of meeting up with old men of the sea and other paddlers like Timo Noko of Finland, et al, out on the salt-chuck? Well, get out on the water more, and perhaps you will find out. :-) Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" dalloyd_at_telus.net > > I also wanted to posit my position that amidst all the usual PW techno-talk, > including the relative merits of various hull lamination technologies, it's > probably a good idea to remind ourselves (me, anyway) that there is a whole > wide world of "low-tech" paddlers out there, each in their older Klepper > Aerius kayaks, paddling thousands of incident-free miles, safely negotiating > their way to shore in what I would arguably consider lest robust hulls > (softshells naturally equating a less-robust image than hardshells). I see the day 20 years from now when a future paddler runs across a still paddling, still cursing, still ornery Doug. With the way technology is going that future paddler will be in a kayak that uses magnetic forces to move smoothly a millimeter above the water and he will be enveloped in a thermal field that will allow him to be in Bermuda shorts and sandals. He will be use a Toledo paddle, at the point all the rage . . . not named for Toledo Ohio but for the Spanish famous Toledo tempered sword steel of which it is made and based on a paddle design recently discovered in a nearby cave of Neandertahl drawings. Doug in his crusty, trusty old reinforced Nordkapp and antiquated dry suit insulated with that old stuff they called polartec will be written about by that future paddler as the old man and the sea. No where in sight will be any Greenland paddlers, the whole movement having been debunked by the Toledo discovery and disappeared as quickly as it arose in the the early 1990s. Meanwhile that older crustier, more cursing original old man and the sea will still be moving along in that same old Klepper...they tend to last forever, i.e. both boats and paddlers. :-) Is it April 1st yet? ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[D.L] >Mr. William Gay would say, "Sew the wind, and reap the whirlwind." Actually I think you will find it is "Sow the wind...." which puts a totally different "spin" on it. Alex *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:47 PM 03/03/09 -0800, you wrote: Doug said, >Perhaps when you have a few more nautical miles of experience under your >belt like >some of the other paddlers on this list, you might be tempted to post a >little less fiction! :-) > >... Well, get out on the water more, and perhaps you will find out.:-) Ouch, I had no idea Doug would react the way he did. My post was meant in jest. In fun. I was only trying to point out that nostalgia isn't always how we remember it and that one old crusty salt may appear quite differently to the next person that comes along. Such as the old guy who had sailed his beautiful ketch up on the rocks between Chatham and Discovery. At low tide you could walk between these islands. Or take the old buzzard I shepherded back from Discovery. He was finding his T-shirt somewhat lacking on that April afternoon as a seasonal storm bore down on us. The age of the boat or the skipper may have as much to do with luck and monetary resources as it does with skill and knowledge. On that same trip back from Discovery the old guys much younger female companion, (how do they do that) turned to me and said, "I feel so lucky. So safe knowing all you big guys are here to pull me out should I fall in," or something to that extent. At the time she was paddling straight towards a set of standing waves. She was not wearing any immersion gear and was totally relaxed. She was also clueless as to her surroundings and the potential harm she was heading for. I ended up towing her for the last mile into safety. She didn't thank me or even help stow my tow rope. These and other experiences have taught me to be initially skeptical of everyone I meet on the water. I've paddled with Doug Lloyd once, but having done so I trust his water skills. In fact I've defended him when others in our community have shaken their heads and turned away from him. I would gladly do so again. I call myself an intermediate kayaker. As I have recently learned to my own monetary detriment. No I have not been at this sport since the last ice age. I will never call myself an expert no mater how much knowledge or how great the skill level I attain. There will always be more to learn and others with greater skills. Over the past three years I've been an active kayaker. Active means 250 day trips, overnighters, week long trips, night paddles, fog, and gales and numerous other un logged outings. I've worked with the Coast Guard Auxiliary to set up and run a rescue clinic in open ocean conditions, I've obtained a VHF marine licence, I've learned to roll, I organize twice weekly challenging paddles. "Longer Harder Further," is our mantra. Well obviously not long, hard, or far enough. Short of getting divorced and putting my son up for adoption I don't know how I could paddle more. As Doug suggest I'll defer and put these next questions to my wiser brothers and sisters on the list. What constitutes experience? What makes someone an expert? Or is Doug inferring that there a hierarchy here? That some are some so exalted that they stand above all others, beyond challenge. Let me know. Perhaps a list of godhood could be prepared. I'd hate to lampoon some other exalted but unknown kayaking deity. Or should I first consult the Who's Who before daring to disagree with any post and only take on those with less experience then myself? As my old man and the sea would say, "I'm not done yit. Come back here ya punk. I've only just begun." Gordin Warner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:24:05 -0800, "Warner Family" <hmgwarner_at_shaw.ca> said: > At 10:47 PM 03/03/09 -0800, you wrote: > Doug said, > > >Perhaps when you have a few more nautical miles of experience under your > >belt like > >some of the other paddlers on this list, you might be tempted to post a > >little less fiction! :-) > > Ouch, I expect we'll be hearing real soon from Doug with his apology, he's got a habit of posting when he's tired and eating his words the next day. > What constitutes experience? What makes someone an expert? Or should you listen to the expert. I have a friend who is a wilderness survival instructor. I would love to have him with me if something went wrong while on a hike or trip. I would not want to follow him, until things were going very wrong, but would want him to be there if things went wrong. He may be an "expert" but that doesn't imply good judgement, or possibly being cursed ;-) > Or is Doug inferring that there a hierarchy here? That some are some so > exalted that they stand above all others, beyond challenge. Let me > know. Perhaps a list of godhood could be prepared. I'd hate to lampoon > some other exalted but unknown kayaking deity. > > Or should I first consult the Who's Who before daring to disagree with > any post and only take on those with less experience then myself? What there's a heirarchy? I like to think anyone who posts bad info will be politely redirected with the correct information. There's enough talent on this list to humble virtually any self annointed expert. Also don't discount the lurkers. There's a large pool of quiet knowledge reading along, my guess is 80% of the lists subscribers are lurkers. Once in a while we get a phenomenally informed detailed explanation or story from one of the lurkers. Kirk -- Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gordin, Gordin, you said: >>Ouch, I had no idea Doug would react the way he did. My post was meant in jest. In fun.<< So was mine! Didn't you see the little ":-)'s"? Argh!!!! Thought you were up to a bit of public sparring as _you_started it. Or maybe I did. Using a Hemingway "subject header" was probably inviting a poke or two. Anyway, everything is cool with me. As a matter of fact, most of us in the club scene here have a tremendous respect for you. You have been one of the few who have driven hard this past couple of years to increase your skills, push others to get out on the water and challenge themselves a bit more (a lot more), set up rescue clinics with the Coast Guard Aux., etc., etc., etc. I was going to come home tonight a elucidate some of this, but I see you already did. You also said: >>As my old man and the sea would say, "I'm not done yit. Come back here ya punk. I've only just begun."<< At least I'm not the only one who can't spell! :-) So, sew, sow...man, what a bizarre language English is. Anyway, hope future interactions can be just as fun as this one was, though I'd hate to get in a real fight with you. You'd probably strangle me with a Spectra tow-rope while gleefully shouting one-fist-to-the sky, the other holding me under the water, "Take that, ya little punk, yur days of squawking are dun, this old man of the sea is puttn' ya under, how da ya like that fur a little entrapment?!" "No, no, Santiago, please senior, gurgle-choke-cough, please, I promise to be good on Paddlewise!" Well, as Helen Keller said; "A great adventure or nothing at all." Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Well, as Helen Keller said; "A great adventure or nothing at all." > > > Doug Lloyd > Victoria BC The older I get the more I embrace that philosophy. A friend told a story about going to the old folks home to visit. An old man sat staring out the window smiling. Very content. My friend chatted with him a bit. As it turned out the old man had done it all during the course of his life and had no regrets. He sat smiling thinking of all the good times he had had. Lucky guy. Time for me to build that surf boat Shawn. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:33 PDT