shirley said: >snip< >>There must be some way of resolving the code red caution of the drysuiters with the more optimistic neoprene-clad. We are scaring each other, and it makes for uncomfortable group paddles. And that's the LAST thing we want on the water! Guidance, probability factors, tales, and wisecracks would be appreciated!<< I've noticed an increasing "coalition of the willing" to venture off into cold water without drysuit or wetsuit. They believe their years of experience and skill procurement negates the need for thermal protection. This was expressed best by Derek Hutchinson recently in a periodical. Those who do dress for immersion consider this growth in the "axis of evil" as a detriment to our sport. I, having somewhat good skills generally, have experienced cold water immersion post-capsize. I _know_ I need immersion protection. The colder the water, the more I want. Unfortunately, those who have not experienced the difficulties associated with cold water immersion just don't understand. Those that haven't, but wear immersion apparel anyway, might be inclined to agree with President Bush, when he said,"I have learned from mistakes I may or may not have made." See, some Canadians think Bush does say some good things from time to time. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Perhaps we should have a poll. For cold water paddling, should Shrub wear a wetsuit or a drysuit or just go au natural? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I, having somewhat good skills generally, have experienced cold water > immersion post-capsize. I _know_ I need immersion protection. The colder the > water, the more I want. I believe that experienced paddlers (which would include familiarity with getting into a kayak after a capsize) should be able to make a sensible decision as to whether or not they want to use a wetsuit or a dry suit. Some will weigh the risks of NOT wearing a dry suit / wetsuit against the discomfort that THEY perceive in wearing such gear. Kayaking carries some risk. Driving a car carries some risk. You might be safer wearing a helmet when you drive a car. For comfort reasons, people do not. I do not like wearing this gear and generally I do not. Many experienced kayakers agree with me. Many do not. I know advanced kayakers who play in rock gardens. They get enough pleasure from this activity that they do it. It is probably more dangerous for them to be playing in that rock garden with their full regalia of helmets and dry suit than it is for me to paddle in Puget Sound (water temperature 53 F) without a wetsuit or a dry suit. I get enough pleasure from not wearing a wet suit/dry suit that I do not wear one. It is an informed decision. Paddling alone is more dangerous than paddling in a group. People still paddle alone because the pleasure outweighs the risk for them. The naïve paddler presents a separate problem. Many people do not know that they cannot get back into their boat if they tip over. They do not know that they will not be functioning after 15 minutes of submersion. They do not know that some tidal current can tip them over. They have to experience these situations or be really able to take someone's word for it. Sure the wetsuit gives those people another margin of safety but that is it. The minutes of functionality may increase but that may not be enough to cause a happy outcome. Group paddling presents another problem. The leaders of groups should feel comfortable with their responsibility. If they want to require everyone to wear a wetsuit, FINE. I am unlikely to go on their trip. FINE. If they want everyone to do a roll or a reentry before the trip starts, FINE. I might go on that trip. IMO deciding whether or not to wear this gear is no different than deciding to make a crossing of such and such a distance or going out in such and such conditions. A risk is being evaluated against a perceived pleasure. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> ...resident Bush, when he said,"I have learned from mistakes I may > or may not have made." See, some Canadians think Bush does say some > good things from time to time. Hmmm. If he doesn't quite know if he made a mistake or not, I'm wondering what he might or might not have learned? At this point, I'm not very optimistic either way...in fact, I'm feeling rather sick. No Bush Whacking, this is a paddle forum. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > No Bush Whacking, this is a paddle forum. > I wholeheartedly agree. There are always two (or more) sides to any issue and certainly none of them are germaine to a paddling forum. My only child, Jason, an Army sargeant, has gotten deployment orders. He happens to feel "privileged" (his word) to have a chance to serve again in the Gulf and I am very proud of him. He is not a warmonger. If anyone on this forum wants to get a different take on these issues you should contact him. I will furnish you his email address. He would love to hear from you whether you are supportive or anti what is going on. You will get quite cogent, insightful points from him...he is very much like me in our general level-headedness about things. A few weeks on another paddling forum in which someone thought to strongly inject protest against a possible war, I objected tht it was inappropriate and mentioned having a son in service. Someone blasted back on that forum that I was a bad father for raising a murderer, those words exactly. I told Jason of this. No, he would not want to punch the guy out. He would like to communicate with the guy via email discussion. Given the piss-poor invective type of arguments the guy had, Jason would eat his lunch. Anyway, if you want to discuss the issues calmly, free of mindless jabs like calling the president shrub, and to get a different cogent perspective do so with Jason via email. But not on this forum, please. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Warner Family wrote: > If we're going to have a poll - Shrub will have to submit photos > appropriately dressed in a wet, a dry and a birthday suit - so we'll > be able to see what we're voting for. ;-) > > Gordin I supose this means that the Homeland Security folks will snatch me across the border, but nothing ventured, nothing gained: From - Wed Mar 12 00:07:37 2003 X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000 Message-ID: <3E6EC096.1050203_at_tbaytel.net> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 00:07:34 -0500 From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: president_at_whitehouse.gov Subject: Dear Mr. President: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. President: A group of sea kayakers is taking a poll concerning what you should wear for cold water paddling: a wetsuit, a drysuit, or simply paddle au natural. So as to assist with the poll, would you please email to me a photograph of yourself in each of these bathing costumes? Yours truly, Richard Culpeper Thunder Bay, Ontario *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> No Bush Whacking, this is a paddle forum. "ralph diaz" <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com> wrote: >I wholeheartedly agree. ...My only child, Jason, an Army sargeant, has gotten deployment orders. He happens to feel "privileged" ....I am very proud of him. He is not a warmonger. Maybe this is another "me, too", but this is a paddling forum, not a political forum. And whether we choose to agree or disagree with the Chief Executive's or Administration's direction, we must always support the women and men who wear our country's uniforms. Those good folks are putting our Nation's freedoms (including our relatively insignificant freedom to paddle!) before their own lives. We are blessed for their choice. Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Shawn Baker <shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com> > And whether we choose to agree or disagree with the Chief Executive's > or Administration's direction, we must always support the women and men > who wear our country's uniforms. Those good folks are putting our > Nation's freedoms (including our relatively insignificant freedom to > paddle!) before their own lives. We are blessed for their choice. So so true. And there is a very sad side to the call-to-duty story that many of us have not considered. (http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/5246434.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp - "Soldiers try to find home for pets as tensions with Iraq escalate" ) A lot of folks here know how much I've enjoyed paddling with my pets. (see http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/poochyak.html ) and a few of you know that I have a soft spot for rescues. Maybe somewhere among all the soldiers' pets that need homes or temporary care, there might be a paddler or paddler-in-waiting. I can say firsthand, dogs make great paddling companions (I've heard cats can, too, but I've no experience with it and don't intend to share a kayak with westies *and* a cat as westies are enough of a challenge alone). Why dogs make good paddling companions: They always wear their happy face. They can see in the dark and hear distant boats. They don't try to correct your stroke. They don't care if your boat is all scratched up. They don't mind landing in the mud. If it stinks, they like it better. They like sit-on-tops. They ward off big birds. They don't mind getting wet. They keep the raccoons out of your food. They warn you if a snake is near your camp. They let you know if two legged sharks are near camp. They help you perfect your paddling skills for choppy water. They won't let you oversleep. They think it's great fun if you all go for a swim, intended or not. They never complain. They like you *better* after a multi-day trip with no shower. They can be perfectly happy going showerless themselves. They clean up leftovers. If you can foster a soldier's furry or feathered family member, here's a good place to start: http://www.netpets.org/netp/foster.php Here's another more recent story about soldiers who need homes for their friends: http://www.wacotrib.com/hp/content/coxnet/iraq/story/0306_PETS.html I can't recommend the patrioticpets.org as there doesn't seem to be enough info and they haven't updated their website in a very long time. But netpets.org has more information about their organization as well as more contact information. Pooches roll... and paddle, too :-) Jackie http://www.muddypuppies.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Myers wrote: > I > can say firsthand, dogs make great paddling companions (I've heard > cats can, too, but I've no experience with it and don't intend to > share a kayak with westies *and* a cat as westies are enough of a > challenge alone). Used to live in the country with a Westie that barked at anything that moved -- except porcupines. He preferred to lay quietly in the deep grass until they got close enough to pounce on. Not pretty. GaryJ -- Director, Family Canoeing Centre Recreational canoeing courses for the whole family. +--------------------------------+ | /"\ | | \ / | | X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN | | / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL & NEWS | +--------------------------------+ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary J. MacDonald" <garyj_at_rogers.com> > > Used to live in the country with a Westie that barked at anything that > moved -- except porcupines. He preferred to lay quietly in the deep > grass until they got close enough to pounce on. > > Not pretty. Westies was also the name of a gang of Irish thugs who once menaced the Hell's Kitchen section of Manhattan...basically west of the theatre district. I used to cringe when I would heard the word Westie and was happy when the gang was largely rounded up. Now, I see that one has to worry about their hairy smaller 4-legged name bearer. :-) ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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