Well this is interesting. But Id go for a freight canoe, wide beam. Thus giving the room for 4 plus gear. A standard canoe will not handle the needed demands placed upon it for 4 people. Kayaks are out as well as most wide beam ones. With a 3 and 6 years old, one needs a stable platform. Not counting all the gear one is expected to take. For familys of this size tht insist on one boat here at the livery We give them a 20 ft Micmac freight. Small kids and normal canoes just dont work. 3 people is all we let in any of out boats rented out. If heavy gear load, then they have to adjust or get extra canoe or take a Yak along. If the family of 4 wants only ONE boat. Id say it be a larger Canoe, square stern that a 2 hp motor can be added if need be. Also can take a leeboard set up and sail rig. This would make for a better DO ALL boat. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Windwalker wrote: > Well this is interesting. > But Id go for a freight canoe, wide beam. > Thus giving the room for 4 plus gear. Depending on what you meanby a freight canoe, this could be a very awkward boat to use. OK if you want a boat and carry a *lot* of stuff, and can carry it from garage to car and car to water. Forget the portage, just stay in motorboat land. > A standard canoe will not handle the needed demands > placed upon it for 4 people. Quoi? Seriously...most well-designed 16-ft canoes can carry a couple of kids and a day-trip worth of gear without any concern. Some folks can take a weekend trip with two small children in such a boat. We have found that a big 17-ft canoe like an OldTown Tripper handles 4 plus reasonable gear for a weekend trip with 2 pre-teens, gets crowded by the time the older kids hit 11 or 12. It depends on how much you pack. My family leaves the kitchen sink at home, but sometimes take the two-burner stove. (And sometimes we tow a kayak, so we can take *everything* we might need.) > Kayaks are out as well as most wide beam ones. > With a 3 and 6 years old, one needs a stable platform. They learn (!) and stability lies in the paddle and in knowing when not to go out with kids. > Not counting all the gear one is expected to take. > For familys of this size tht insist on one boat here at the livery You sound like the livery I went to once where they had 65# Royalite canoe for people staying on the big lake, and 86# Crosslink canoes for those wanting to portage into the backcountry. Sheesh! (I did not rent from them.) > We give them a 20 ft Micmac freight. Talk about a bear to carry! This must be a real grizzly bear to portage. > Small kids and normal canoes just dont work. > 3 people is all we let in any of out boats rented out. > If heavy gear load, then they have to adjust or get extra canoe > or take a Yak along. I do not know your location, but I have to say that this sounds like you are not only letting liability fears wag the dog, but you are padding the bill. Most 17-18 ft canoes have a designed load range of about 200 pounds, from maybe 450-500 up to 650-700 pounds, with a 1000-1200 maximum at deep load. A family of parents (350 pounds) and kids (35 (age 5-6) + 65 (age 7-9)) just barely gets into the designed load range. > If the family of 4 wants only ONE boat. > Id say it be a larger Canoe, square stern that a 2 hp motor can be added if > need be. Also can take a leeboard set up and sail rig. This is not normal canoe usage, with few paddlers able to handle a sail rig and not many more into motors. I personally have an OldTown Tripper, and a Swift Winisk. The latter has a bit smaller load, but is a good boat for family tripping. It is light enough to carry. Recomendations for the original query? What is available where they live? How much do they want to spend? Does it matter if they can portage more than 100 metres? Skill level of the parents? About the only thing I agree with in Windwalker's remarks is that a kayak is not generally very useful for such a family. GaryJ -- Director, Family Canoeing Centre Recreational canoeing courses for the whole family. +--------------------------------+ | /"\ | | \ / | | X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN | | / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL & NEWS | +--------------------------------+ -- Director, Family Canoeing Centre Recreational canoeing courses for the whole family. +--------------------------------+ | /"\ | | \ / | | X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN | | / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL & NEWS | +--------------------------------+ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sunday 27 April 2003 11:52, Gary J. MacDonald > > Well this is interesting. > > But Id go for a freight canoe, wide beam. > > Thus giving the room for 4 plus gear. > > > I do not know your location, but I have to say that this sounds like you > are not only letting liability fears wag the dog, but you are padding > the bill. Most 17-18 ft canoes have a designed load range of about 200 > pounds, from maybe 450-500 up to 650-700 pounds, with a 1000-1200 > maximum at deep load. A family of parents (350 pounds) and kids (35 > (age 5-6) + 65 (age 7-9)) just barely gets into the designed load range. Im a Livery Owner and canoe builder {45 yrs a guessing} No boats leave here with 4 in them. Unless a afternoon paddle. No crossing lakes. If at other livery {Gulf} the rule still applies. Im very well aware of so called "load limits".. But more Im very well aware no one pays attention to that once they leave dockside. Two yard apes and two adults, plus gear for a weekend OR week is overload more in common sense that paper work "load limits" *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Windwalker wrote: >Two yard apes and two adults, plus gear for a weekend OR week is overload >more in common sense that paper work "load limits" > Depends entirely on the displacement of the canoe. The problem is that many manufacturers confuse optimal load limits for safe paddling with load limits above which the tub sinks. There are some terrific canoes that handle very nicely when loaded with mom, dad, a couple of rug rats, and gear. Paddlewise's John Winters (where the heck are you , John?) has designed several, including the Quetico <http://www.swiftcanoe.com/canoes/catalogue/modern_tripping.htm> (for relatively calm water), and the Yukon <http://www.swiftcanoe.com/canoes/catalogue/Expedition.htm> (for relatively rough water). For extended tripping, I use his Albany design, which still paddles nicely with a load of up to 650lbs. Cheers, Richard Culpeper <http://www.tbaytel.net/culpeper/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:33 PDT