< extra content removed by moderator, if replying to the digest it's got to be have a lot deleted... > "All doubting Thomases. The people selling the boats think they know what they are talking about. I've been bold enough to butt into a conversation or two about boats in stores. The clerks may not like it but some things are just too wrong to tell people. Misinformation is contagious." I am afraid this is true of much of the sales industry...even sales of expensive products, which by nature are more complicated to understand well, and to explain to a potential buyer. In my experience few salesmen(women) of any product can truly explain it well...and in totality...or are psychologically prepared to admit when they cannot, but will try to find the true answers to a buyer's smart questions. The above is one of the reasons why I go to ethical and knowledgeable kayak stores/suppliers...one is to get real information to suplement my already done homework, and the other is to reward these ethical people who are contributing something to kayakers, kayakers to be, and the world in general by representing this activity in a way that is positive old, new and nonkayakers alike. It is not hard to tell the difference...between the ethical and purely self serving dealers. For the most part, I don't believe it costs more to seek out and buy from the good ones. Michael Orchard Vancouver, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:36 PM 4/19/03 -0700, Michael Orchard wrote: >< extra content removed by moderator, if replying to the digest it's got >to be have a lot deleted... > > >"All doubting Thomases. The people selling the boats think >they know what they are talking about. I've been bold enough to butt into a >conversation or two about boats in stores. The clerks may not like it but >some >things are just too wrong to tell people. Misinformation is contagious." > >I am afraid this is true of much of the sales industry...even sales of >expensive products, which by nature are more complicated to understand well, >and to explain to a potential buyer. In my experience few salesmen(women) >of any product can truly explain it well...and in totality...or are >psychologically prepared to admit when they cannot, but will try to find the >true answers to a buyer's smart questions. > >The above is one of the reasons why I go to ethical and knowledgeable kayak >stores/suppliers...one is to get real information to suplement my already >done homework, and the other is to reward these ethical people who are >contributing something to kayakers, kayakers to be, and the world in general >by representing this activity in a way that is positive old, new and >nonkayakers alike. It is not hard to tell the difference...between the >ethical and purely self serving dealers. > >For the most part, I don't believe it costs more to seek out and buy from >the good ones. Just out of curiosity, how many kayak dealers are there within a 100 mile radius where you live? When I was looking at buying my first kayak there was one place within 50 miles where I could buy one. The next closest store offering a range of quality kayaks was over 2 hours away, and more than 4 hours way before I could find another. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Saturday, April 19, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Michael Orchard wrote: > < extra content removed by moderator, if replying to the digest it's > got > to be have a lot deleted... > > > "All doubting Thomases. The people selling the boats think > they know what they are talking about. I've been bold enough to butt > into a > conversation or two about boats in stores. The clerks may not like it > but > some > things are just too wrong to tell people. Misinformation is > contagious." > <snip> > The above is one of the reasons why I go to ethical and knowledgeable > kayak > stores/suppliers...one is to get real information to suplement my > already > done homework, and the other is to reward these ethical people who are > contributing something to kayakers, kayakers to be, and the world in > general > by representing this activity in a way that is positive old, new and > nonkayakers alike. It is not hard to tell the difference...between the > ethical and purely self serving dealers. I agree that it is a good idea to go to an ethical retailer. But back to the Rec kayak scenario, many people go to the local "sporting goods" store to buy their toys. Or a general store near a lake might have a few recreational kayaks for sale out back. Or the local video/tanning/small engine repair/bait shop may decide they could make a few extra bucks selling little kayaks. The people buying the boats are not "boaters" and they don't think of going to a boating store when they decide they want a little kayak. As an educated consumer of kayaking products you may feel this is a dumb idea, and you are probably right, but if you have never kayaked before and it is a nice day and the fish are jumping you might think the guy at the bait shop is a perfectly trustworthy guy for your new toy. How are your to know any better? Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
'Ethical' and 'Sales' are not mutually exclusive terms, though it may pose for some as an oxymoron. Well intentioned and even exuberant sales people are great sources for misdirective information. This alone does not make them 'unethical'. Sales people are often the source of 'bad' and potentially 'dangerous' information. "I've been paddling 20 years and never tipped a poke boat..." "As long as you stay close to shore, you're perfectly safe without a...." "Oh, well, it's not like you're gonna take this thing to Alaska or nothin'.." The better merchants match customers with the proper product for use under a proper range of conditions. An 'outdoors/lifestyle' store I worked at in the 1970's was notorious for selling neophyte backpackers gear that would better suit an expedition to Denali, when the local state park was as far they intended to roam. As an 'unwritten store policy', that behavior was 'unethical'. The kayak/paddling merchants I trust acknowledge that safety, proper outfitting, training & practice, etc. are all part of the necessary package. They 'advocate' a 'relationship' with their customer. It doesn't auger well for sales if you literally kill off repeat business. I've returned year after year to deal with an outfitter in Maine who provides top notch skills sessions, widely acclaimed trip guiding, and sincerely brings their best efforts when selling their products and services. They take a wide view of their world and the foot prints they leave behind. I'm over a thousand miles away. Dealing with them is worth the trip every time. I bought my Romany from a shop some four hours away because they let me use six different boats over the course of a two day skills class. This helped me put potential boats through paddling and rescue sessions to get a much better feel for fit and characteristics. When it comes time to buy another boat, I will go there first. When a 'customer' wants to buy an 'idea', there are no shortage of people willing to meet those needs at a reasonable price. Merchants with integrity will try to help the 'client' articulate those 'ideas' in more concrete terms. This sometimes kills sales because it hinders, impedes, and complicates the 'idea'. Someone in an earlier post advocated the 'spark' that pushes people to take to the water, and how all of these laws and regulations encumber and burden that initiative at no real gain in safety. Someone else suggested that the 'sea sorted people out'. True that. Still, SAR people and 'civilians' on the water are bound by 'ethics' to respond to boaters in need/peril/danger. It's an ethic that has been codified into laws and through which people have been punished for wrongful acts and/or depraved indifference. We cannot buy or sell a boat, nor can we paddle solely within the vacuum of an 'idea'. We do so in a concrete, tangible world that also includes other people. If our awareness does not expand to consider diverse consequence to ourselves and to others, then we operate under a very self-serving 'ethic' indeed. Nothing screws up a Leave No Trace outing like a corpse. -Will *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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