Looking for some advice in terms of locking kayaks to a vehicle or trailer - for times like overnight at motels, restaurants, etc. The two boats I'm interested in locking up are a CD Storm and a CD Gulfstream. I don't believe that either have a security loop or fitting of any kind. My roof rack does not lock to my vehicle - so I need to lock the boats to the vehicle in some way - not just to the rack. Maybe running a cable under the seat or through the sides of the seat is enough - although I suppose I persistent thief could cut through the support or remove the seat bolts. I saw a cable system that didn't use a lock - a cable that you simply pull inside the car and close a door (a sliding fitting of sorts is on the end and doesn't permit pulling cable out of the car). Kind of a neat idea I guess. All ideas and advice appreciated. Keith Keith Wrage 1925 Sandalwood Drive Onalaska, WI 54650 (608) 781-3441 (608) 317-7550 (cell) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:03 AM 6/20/03 -0500, Keith Wrage wrote: >Looking for some advice in terms of locking kayaks to a vehicle or trailer >- for times like overnight at motels, restaurants, etc. The two boats I'm >interested in locking up are a CD Storm and a CD Gulfstream. I don't >believe that either have a security loop or fitting of any kind. > >My roof rack does not lock to my vehicle - so I need to lock the boats to >the vehicle in some way - not just to the rack. > >Maybe running a cable under the seat or through the sides of the seat is >enough - although I suppose I persistent thief could cut through the >support or remove the seat bolts. > >I saw a cable system that didn't use a lock - a cable that you simply pull >inside the car and close a door (a sliding fitting of sorts is on the end >and doesn't permit pulling cable out of the car). Kind of a neat idea I guess. I've heard of some people using something like that and using "The Club" on the cockpit rim to secure the cable to the kayak. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Maybe running a cable under the seat or through the sides of the seat is > enough - although I suppose I persistent thief could cut through the > support or remove the seat bolts. You already know this, I'm sure, but a persistent thief is going to get the boat no matter what, and the more "security" you use, the more damage will be done to your boat and/or car in the process (maybe). Locks keep honest folks honest, but a dishonest person is going to try to get the boat regardless of your security (IMHO anyway). Locks take away the temptation from generally honest people, or thieves who don't have their tools with them at the time. So, I simply added a stainless steel loop to the underside of the cockpit right behind the seat. I run a cable (small loops at each end )through the SS loop and through or around whatever I'm locking to (a spot on my truck, a telephone pole, or whatever) and use a regular key lock - not even a heavy duty one - to join the loops at each end of the cable. If someone really wanted my boat, they'll get it. With a medium sized pair of wire cutters, it would take them all of 2 seconds to snip the cable. But, the derelict neighborhood kid who sees it in the yard won't be able to take it on the spur of the moment as a target of opportunity. It'll probably piss him off and he'll intentionally damage it for spite, though. But, like you said, at a restaurant or something, it would deter a quick snatch and go, but that's about it. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for the "club" idea - had forgotten about that. Does anyone use the 'lasso' type cabling - loop around each end of the kayak, pulled tight and then locked? Seems that this would have to be very tight in order to prevent someone from slipping the cable along hull far enough to get it free. FYI - The lock-less cable that I referred to in my original post is at: http://joddycollins.home.mindspring.com/5lock.htm Usual disclaimers apply - no association, no connections whatsoever. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] locking up boats securely. I have a relatively simple and pretty foolproof method for keeping my boat on the car rack at night. I have a 30 foot length of case-hardened chain that I use. First I make a loop of about 3 feet, padlock this loop together, and then I put it over the bow and pull it aft a foot or two. I then run the chain UNDER the car and make a snug loop around the stern end about 2 feet in and I padlock that loop. Short of bringing out some very serious bolt cutters, I feel pretty safe. And the arrangement is Very visible to a potential thief. May keep them from even trying. Tony Reynes At 09:03 AM 6/20/03 -0500, Keith Wrage wrote: >Looking for some advice in terms of locking kayaks to a vehicle or trailer >- for times like overnight at motels, restaurants, etc. The two boats I'm >interested in locking up are a CD Storm and a CD Gulfstream. I don't >believe that either have a security loop or fitting of any kind. > >My roof rack does not lock to my vehicle - so I need to lock the boats to >the vehicle in some way - not just to the rack. > >Maybe running a cable under the seat or through the sides of the seat is >enough - although I suppose I persistent thief could cut through the >support or remove the seat bolts. > >I saw a cable system that didn't use a lock - a cable that you simply pull >inside the car and close a door (a sliding fitting of sorts is on the end >and doesn't permit pulling cable out of the car). Kind of a neat idea I *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Funny this should come up as I bought a lock last night. It is a 4 meter long cable with a hard ball on one end. It is also one of these lockless systems where you loop around part of the boat and toss the ball end in the door. I like the looks of the lasso system from Thule or Yakima but they cost around $70. I was thinking of making my own but then ran into this thing for $19. Here's the info: Rack Guard by Playbater/Shred Ready http://www.shredready.com/products/rack.html As mentioned earlier, a persistent thief is going to get the boat. The lock will last about 2 seconds with a big cutter. But that 2 seconds may be enough for him/her to decide to steal the boat on the car next to mine instead. I also wouldn't put the plastic thingy behind the window as the directions suggest as it seems like you could come back to a missing boat and a missing window. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Keith, In the vein of minimalism where single objects perform multiple tasks, I employ a thin cable as a security device and as a tether/stern line. The cable is looped at each end, is padlocked inside the pickup truck bed with the other end padlocked to a security loop that I installed on the back deck, well aft of the rear hatch. The cable is not held under tension, but could keep the boat from sliding off of the front of the truck in an emergency. Mike. Mike Hamilton, Biologist 1205 Leonardtown Service Bldg University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 301-314-3486 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree that a dedicated thief can still just about anything. But most thefts are thefts of opportunity. See it, take it. A simple cable can prevent a lot. I'm betting most people don't carry bolt cutters or hack saws with them. Could be wrong though... An effective method that requires no modification of your boat is a lasso. I use this on my Romany. It has a loop on either end and locks in the middle. Toss a loop around the bow and one around the stern then wrap the cable around the rack a few times to make it tight and lock in place. Not much of a picture but you can see one end of the loop around a kayak here (scroll to the bottom of the page): http://www.noc.com/ss/racklock.htm Mel *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:03:32 -0500, Keith Wrage wrote: >Looking for some advice in terms of locking kayaks to a vehicle or trailer >- for times like overnight at motels, restaurants, etc. I use a two-loop cable affair that slips over each end of the boat and secured by the locked car door. It probably isn't ultimately secure but -does- make me feel better. I made it based on a design by "Boulter of Earth" with jacketed cable and hammer-swage fittings from my local hardware store. Googling "Boulter of Earth" finds this link which may or may not lead you to the commercial product... http://www.watertribe.com/_WT111301Disc/0000066b.htm As others have implied, the best security is to chain a bear to your boat. --allan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I agree that a dedicated thief can still just about anything. But most > thefts are thefts of opportunity. See it, take it. A simple cable can > prevent a lot. I'm betting most people don't carry bolt cutters or > hack saws with them. Could be wrong though... I can't debate that for the most part, if we're talking small or easily portable things. An unlocked bicycle comes to mind - hop on and ride away or toss it in the trunk. That would be an easy target. But with the size and transportation issues of a kayak, the "see it, take it" scenario seems awfully hard, just because of the transportation issue. I would think that a potential thief would be looking for kayaks, and once found, would be prepared to steal it on the spot or come back for it. That implies that he would have the tools with him, and the means to haul it away quickly and quietly. So, unless the thief is a joy rider who sees the boat near the water and decides to take a ride, a kayak thief would probably be prepared with the proper tools (IMHO). These are all assumptions - I have no concrete evidence to support the above. But perhaps Matt does? Matt, when a boat on your web-site is recovered, do you gather any statistics regarding the nature of the crime? Was the boat locked up? Was it a thief looking for boats or a target of opportunity? How did they get the boat transported? Are thieves stealing all types of boats equally, or are some types more prevalent (composite over plastic, sea vs. rec vs. WW) Etc???? It might be enlightening to discover what the highest theft threats are for kayakers, and that might also point us to the best solution(s) to protecting our stuff. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> > But with the size and transportation issues of a kayak, the "see it, > take it" scenario seems awfully hard, just because of the transportation > issue. I would think that a potential thief would be looking for kayaks, > and once found, would be prepared to steal it on the spot or come back > for it. That implies that he would have the tools with him, and the > means to haul it away quickly and quietly. So, unless the thief is a > joy rider who sees the boat near the water and decides to take a ride, a > kayak thief would probably be prepared with the proper tools (IMHO). 14 years ago when there was hardly any kayaking going on here in NYC, two women stopped at a diner in Brooklyn on the way to a kayak camping event in Connecticut. They left two club Chinooks on the roof of a van tied down with webbing straps. When they emerged, the kayaks were gone, webbing straps slashed. I think it was just a target of opportunity in general and not anyone hunting around for kayaks since there wasn't much kayaking going on. They probably just saw "boats" and figured they could have fun with them or sell them at some marina for a few bucks. ralph diaz-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich wrote: >>>>>>>>But with the size and transportation issues of a kayak, the "see it, take it" scenario seems awfully hard, just because of the transportation issue. I would think that a potential thief would be looking for kayaks, and once found, would be prepared to steal it on the spot or come back for it. That implies that he would have the tools with him, and the means to haul it away quickly and quietly. So, unless the thief is a joy rider who sees the boat near the water and decides to take a ride, a kayak thief would probably be prepared with the proper tools (IMHO). These are all assumptions - I have no concrete evidence to support the above. But perhaps Matt does? Matt, when a boat on your web-site is recovered, do you gather any statistics regarding the nature of the crime? Was the boat locked up? Was it a thief looking for boats or a target of opportunity? How did they get the boat transported? Are thieves stealing all types of boats equally, or are some types more prevalent (composite over plastic, sea vs. rec vs. WW) Etc???? It might be enlightening to discover what the highest theft threats are for kayakers, and that might also point us to the best solution(s) to protecting our stuff.<<<<<<<<<<<< I only know of one professional kayak thief and he is now in jail (for several other crimes considered more serious by the authorities than kayak theft). Trying to catch him was the reason I started the stolen kayak database in the first place. he targeted kayaks he could steal at a time of his choosing. Most were from on water locations where I suspect he could silently paddle them away without raising much suspicion (no one I have heard from anyhow ever witnessed him stealing one around here, if I recall correctly I think he was once spotted in CA paddling a kayak away that was later discovered to be missing by the owner). Most kayak thefts seem to be targets of opportunity rather than crimes of a regular thief specializing in kayaks. That doesn't mean they are not planned though, I think they most often are. The kayaks most likely to be hit are those that are the most visible to the most people and that can be predicted to be in the same location day after day. The thief can then gather the tools necessary and chose the optimum time to steal the kayak. Locks can help deter a thief, but many kayaks were locked up but taken anyway (I ask this of victims to see if there is any patterns or if the theft fits a particular MO, I don't have to wait until a kayak is recovered to find out how it was taken). The professional kayak thief had his special bolt cutters. He nipped through several padlocks, hardened chains, and even a kryptonite lock with them. His wife once loaned them to a neighbor and he had a huge fit with her about that. They were obviously one of his most prized possessions but she couldn't understand why at the time. Still, locks make most thieves work harder and they certainly act as a deterrent especially if the kayak is in a public place where their might be witnesses getting suspicious. Most people wouldn't give someone they saw untying a kayak from a car a second glance but if he is cutting a cable or chain they might start to wonder why he doesn't just use his key and call 911 to have the guy checked out. I cable lock my kayaks to the car with a very heavy duty bike cable if I'm going to be away from it for a bit and I don't leave a kayak on my car overnight or keep it where it is visible on a regular basis (so a thief couldn't count on finding it there at any given time when he might be ready to steal it). Even the professional kayak thief took a variety of kinds of kayaks. His ad would often read something like: "Plastic kayak $450, fiberglass kayak $850". He didn't even have to know yet what kayaks he was going to steal to run that ad. He at least once called that ad into a newspaper from out of state when he was preparing to move to a new location. He had the potential customers lined up on his voice mail and caller ID before he even found the kayaks he was going to sell them. Once he chose the kayaks he knew he could steal he would contact the potential buyers he felt most comfortable dealing with and claim to have been called out of town for a family emergency right after he had contracted to put the ad in the paper to explain why two or three weeks had passed since he ran the ad. This helped to protect his phone numbers but they would be unlisted and would deadhead to other phones as well so he kept himself both available but hard to locate. he would then describe the kayaks and get several buyers lined up to buy the kayak the next day. Then he would steal the kayak that night and deliver it from prospect to prospect until it was sold (to assure he wouldn't still be in possession of stolen property by that night). Actually he often had someone else do the delivery for him further distancing himself from the stolen property and a buyer who could ID him as the seller. It is nice to know this guy is finally behind bars and facing three strikes charges. Much more detail on how to avoid being a kayak theft victim can be found in the stolen kayaks section of our website. The stolen kayak report form has the information I ask the victims to provide, if they can. I also want to have the police case number so that if someone reports one of the stolen kayaks to me I can get the police to understand what I'm talking about immediately and put them in touch with the police department that took the victim's report. Without the case number it is usually hopeless to get the police to act to recover the stolen kayak for the victim. I only publish the information I get that would help the stolen kayak be recognized and positively identified. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
With 29 years in law-enforcement I know many, many thieves. As they progress in their careers they tend to specialize. Shop lifting, house burglaries, cars, copper wire, maybe boats. Given that, I still agree that the thefts are "opportunistic". The thief Matt spoke of was a specialist, but he identified his targets ahead of time in an opportunistic fashion. First, he found one easy to steal, then he arranged the sale prior to the theft. Well thought out, yes, mission impossible, no. "Easy to steal" meant unattended and unobserved for predictably long lengths of time. I've known folks that have done the same thing with carpet from model homes. The trick is to make your property less easy to steal than the next person's. Any lock is better than no lock. I recently went on a day-paddle with a large group. About a dozen of us stopped for dinner that evening on the way home. I was the only person who locked a boat up with a simple bicycle cable lock. None were stolen, but if one had been, it would not have been mine. Store it where you will see it frequently. I can't count the number of victims I've talked to who were unable pin down the time of loss to less than a few days or even weeks. The thief knew nobody would be checking on the property often. My favorite is a police officer who stored his garden shredder out of sight behind the garage, used it a few times a year and had no idea when it was taken. That does not mean one should arrange things so it's more likely their paddle partner gets their boat stolen. Understand the thief. He is a lazy, opportunistic creature of darkness. If all kayaks are locked and frequently observed, he will move to skis, bicycles or personal water craft. So lock your kayak as well as you can, keep an eye on it, and let them go after jet skis. Paddle lots Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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